#106  
Old 06-06-2005, 03:03 AM
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Re: Yellow Porn

QUOTE:
Originally Posted by ChottoMatte
good God, good read but soooo long

what a bizarre tale
  #107  
Old 06-06-2005, 03:25 AM
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Re: Yellow Porn

^ Not really impressed with that guy. He seems like another poster child for angry Asian men to cheer for because he's currently attempting a breakthrough in porn, fighting the mold, so to speak, and said some stupid shit like "an Asian chick has to be really hot for me to even give her a chance, I prefer white girls" or something along those lines. If any Asian female was quoted as saying this in any article, she'd be verbally crucified here in no time, and quite frankly Chiu's statement is quite a bit more condescending (at least to me) than anything Kelly Hu has ever said or hinted about Asian men.
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Last edited by Napoleon Chynamite; 06-06-2005 at 03:28 AM.
  #108  
Old 06-06-2005, 05:34 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

YAY FOR GUMBY!!!!!

Speaking of this issue, Lucy Liu turns out not to have ever said or done anything wrong and is crucified on Asian American forums. Yet someone like Commando_Turned_MD can say a hundred or more offensive sexist remarks and no one says a word (though he is quietly banned) This is the state of Asian American web forums.

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  #109  
Old 06-07-2005, 08:44 AM
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Re: Yellow Porn

What was that? Lucy Liu not have done anything wrong, you say?

Wasn't there just a thread about how Lucy Liu takes many stereotypical roles at the expense of her own racial community? She is used as a stool pigeon and rightly so not because of what she does with her own personal life but along the lines of what type of image she portrays and projects to non-Asians and Asians alike. Lucy is not exactly guiltfree and the criticisms are somewhat warranted. This also goes for Amy Tan, Kelly Hu, and the like.

Additionally, I'd have to say that the majority of angry Asian males resent Asian females because of the huge interracial dating disparity. Therefore, it stands to make sense for them to lash out against Asian women in general such as the individual in the above article. Is it wrong? Absolutely. However, try to understand the reasoning behind their anger rather than dismiss it as something trivial and mindless. You can dig your head in the sand all you want but you can't fix problems if you don't understand or try to understand them.
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  #110  
Old 06-07-2005, 12:22 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

But we recently agreed that it's more important that Asian American actors take whatever work they can get so they can eat. She also doesn't take that many stereotypical roles and if she did take a few it's to further her career and the larger representation of Asians in media. Michelle Krusiec and Gedde Watanabe are also condoned.

The dating disparity doesn't give you a right to lash out irrationally at actresses or Asian women on forums and most of you to with abandon anyways. It's been made abundantly clear to all Asian Americans on the internet that Asian men aren't getting enough white pussy. That shouldn't condone the lack of respect given to Asian women and their opinions and it shouldn't condone their treating us like objects. Besides Asian women have alot more to complain about like the highest incidence of depression and suicide for any race/gender in the US. That trumps your not getting white pussy. Why shouldn't Asian women on forums be beating men to a pulp for their experiences of racism from the culture at large and sexism from their own community? I'd say the situation should be turned around and men should be beaten down to nothing the way the women have been.
  #111  
Old 06-07-2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

I guess the bottom line is this: Yeah, the interracial dating disparity may be a problem (although I've noticed just as many AM/WF couples around here), and the stereotypical portrayal of Asian men in the media is definitely a problem. But when it all comes down to it, and it's probably because men are the more outspoken ones and we naturally veer towards our own interests, there is a lot more complaining and uproar about the plight of Asian men going on and extremely little complaining about the struggles of Asian women, which as I've mentioned at least from a quantitative standpoint surpass the struggles of Asian men (not to say that there is a better or worse type of oppression). This turns into neglect and is even worse when Asian women are used as targets of blame or deemed in great part responsible for the barriers faced by Asian men.
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  #112  
Old 06-07-2005, 01:08 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

How would you guys like it if there were no women on the forums? I'm not used to the sexism I've encountered on the internet and normally I wouldn't put up with it but Asian American political and social advancement is as important to me if not more than women's advancement because I'm not just a woman I'm an Asian American women. I think alot of guys owe the women who are still here who put up with so much an apology. It would be even better if we fight what's bringing most of the world down, in the phrase by bell hooks, "white supremacist capitalist patrirachy" instead of taking it out on other races, women and gays. If the direct and indirect sexism (it's much better here than other places or I wouldn't be here) stopped we can work for what this site's orginal goals: Asian American empowerment, not just men's as it mostly has been, what's best for our political and social consciousness and movement. It's going to need help from both men and women.
  #113  
Old 06-07-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

Why can't people just stand up and shout,"I AM ASIAN-AMERICAN!"

/threadjack
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  #114  
Old 06-07-2005, 06:18 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

That was nonsensical and unrelated.

There was no point. Which I guess was your point.
  #115  
Old 06-08-2005, 08:00 AM
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Re: Yellow Porn

I’m not sure where you’re getting the mutual agreement on how “we recently agreed that it's more important that Asian American actors take whatever work they can get so they can eat.” Who’s this “we” you speak of? I never agreed to anything of the sort. Again, you’ve proved time and time again that you don’t actually take someone’s separate argument but rather lump everyone’s opinion together.

Angry Asian males lashing out against their female counterparts for the dating disparity isn’t right but I encourage everyone to try to understand why it happens rather than dismiss it as something short of a mental disorder. It’s natural for an individual to lash out against something or someone if they feel wronged. The dating disparity is and should not be any different. As I’ve seen from your previous posts, you just can’t seem to get it through your head that wanting positive Asian American male role models doesn’t always have to do with getting women; white or otherwise. This massive stereotyping of angry Asian males makes you no better than any other race that stereotypes Asians. Want a few good examples as to how the interracial dating disparity doesn’t involve white women? How about what type of effect it has on the community’s ability to repopulate it’s numbers with Asian Americans rather than Asian immigrants? How about the psychological effect it has on the Asian male population? How about cause and effect of the impact media influence has on these types of pairings?

Additionally, like I said before yet again, media racial stereotyping has absolutely nothing to do with suicide and depression rates. One is a social problem whereas the other is more along the lines of a medical problem. You have no right to downplay one problem because you deem it less necessary than something else. Problems are problems. If that were the case, I could argue that AIDS and cancer deem suicide and depression rates among Asian women less important. You seem to have a problem with identity politics because eventually, that’s all you see the world as. Gays automatically filter any type of political news through a queer filter and use that to make their decisions without any consideration for whether or not the news should be filtered. Religious fanatics do it and you’re doing the same with sexism. The identity, or the cause, is no longer part of something or influenced by something else in the world, it IS the world and some become incapable of reasoning outside that box.

You say you’re here on the forums to fight for a greater cause that goes beyond women’s issues? It sure doesn’t feel like it when discussing the topics of interracial dating disparity and negative Asian male portrayals draws massive complaints, is implied to be something trivial, or how it’s the fault of Asian males themselves. It sure doesn’t seem like it when you always seem to take the female perspective:

“Why aren’t Asian male celebrities condemn as harshly as Asian female celebrities when they sell out?

“If a Asian female said that, she would be crucified.”

But guess what? Asian females air their dirty laundry all the time which tends to cause the Asian male hostility in the first place but from your clouded perspective, Asian women only suffer but are never the propagators of racism.

That being said, I find it both sad and scary that since Asian women are wronged, you too feel the need to seek revenge on any Asian male that doesn’t apologize for any wrongs you or Asian women might have faced. I never mistreated any Asian women in my life and asking me to apologize for deeds some other person might have committed is wrong.

I don’t need any white woman to make me feel good about being an American of Asian descent nor do I have any insecurities about someone else’s beliefs but I invite you to dismiss my comments as the ranting of yet another bitter Asian male. In fact, I know you will just by your previous comments. That’s your choice but I believe it’s incorrect.
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Last edited by Banana; 06-08-2005 at 08:02 AM.
  #116  
Old 06-08-2005, 01:44 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

Banana you misunderstand alot of the debates on here.

You're the only one who's still very angry and bitter about Asian actresses making a living in the US.

You totally misunderstand the debate about women's depression and suicide rates. The high depression and suicide rates have nothing to do with media images. No one here has ever said that media portrayals of women have anything to do with the disproportionately high depression and suicide rates among women. The cause of this is social, political and economic inequality in the the larger society and within our own community. The media has given Asian women exposure but most of it has been stereotypical so the media effect has been mixed.

The media portrayals are a problem mainly for Asian males. No one said it's a mental disorder. It's just displaced anger against women who don't deserve your anger. And the emasulation of males in the media has mostly been blamed for romantic inequality. This is obvious from reading forums that this has been the main problem for the guys, that the media emasulates them and makes them undesirable to women. The media has been blamed for the disparity. The disparity of what? Specifically the fact that for a long time we have been the "honorary white man" in the US, the "surrogate white", the "house nigger" for a while and I argue that even before you all noticed the high number of Asian women with white males, Asians were thinking, "If we're the honorary whites, are doing well and are successful, then why aren't we sleeping with their women? Why aren't white women dating us or marrying us? We have the best jobs, the money, when do I get the white woman?" And for the longest time we've been blaming the white male-run for this. I'd say it's the "fault" of

1) white male run media

which panders to Asian women over Asian men because of yellow perilism and because women are more approachable and also according to Sonia Shah's essay, Asian women are the by far the main consumers in Asian families. It may have less to do with white men sexual attraction to Asian women that we are always talking about.

2) white women themselves
If white women are not sleeping with you, and I have to reiterate, the entire IR dispartity is specifically about Asian women sleeping with white men more than Asian men sleeping with white women, I am not making this up for you, the IR disparity debate ad infintum on message boards are specifically about Asian females with white males versus Asian men with white females, then go blame and complain to the white women yourselves instead of lashing out at Asian women. Another thing I have to say is that Asian males believe in IR in principle, that is, they are all for sleeping with white women. They only seem to be against it because they are jealous that Asian women are sleeping with white men so much more than they are sleeping with white women. So in principle, Asian men are pro-IR. If they could sleep with white women, they would. Because as "honorary white men" they should have "their women" too. At this point don't you think lashing out at Asian women has been entirely unfair? This is why Asian males on message boards owe women an apology. Asian actresses have done nothing that Asian actors wouldn't have done in the same position. What Asian actors are not taking stereotypical roles right now?

Banana, maybe your take on the media is slightly different than most of the guys but mostly the emasculation issue was correlated with romantic inequality. The discussion about emasulation in the media related to other things such as making money or political representation has not been debated.
  #117  
Old 06-08-2005, 07:50 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

Interesting.

I’m the one that is misunderstanding many of the debates when I can show how you’ve been bringing unrelated topics into the debate.

I said in the beginning of this conversation that since we’re on the topic of Asian American media and Asian male representation concerns, there should be no reason for you to toss in the topic of Asian American women dealing with suicide and depression because they were two different fields of discussion. One is of social value (media and racism) whereas the other (suicide and depression) has more of a medical value. You just echoed that statement in your past post:

You totally misunderstand the debate about women's depression and suicide rates. The high depression and suicide rates have nothing to do with media images. No one here has ever said that media portrayals of women have anything to do with the disproportionately high depression and suicide rates among women.

Though clinical depression exhibited by Asian American females can indeed be connected to media racism, it’s not likely. Therefore, talking about one doesn’t warrant the other.

To start, am I annoyed and angry with Asian actresses making a living in the US? Indeed. Why? It’s because they’re making a living at the expense of our community by taking these stereotypical roles. I would much rather Asian Americans be completely invisible than project an unflattering image. This, in turn, explains the rest of my opinion which just happens to be the opposite of yours.

Hollywood has received the brunt of the blame from bitter Asian males but there is some fallout. Asian females have received almost as much criticism and I can see why. It’s because Asian females choose to play the white man’s hand. The white population isn’t pointing a gun at Asian females telling them to emasculate their own men; they choose to do it by “selling out.” Asian actresses have the right to just say no and deny Hollywood’s willingness to typecast them. They had a choice. The key word is: choice. Does Lucy Liu, Kelly Hu, Amy Tan bow out? No, they accept it with open arms so they should accept the consequences as well. I disagree with the notion of excusing Asian American actors and actresses to take derogatory roles so they can eat and the excuse is used as a blank check to stave off any criticism. You bought it hook, line, and sinker.

The fact is that the angry Asian men that are complaining about the disparity isn’t because they want to date white women or the lack of an ability to do so but rather the idea of white males “stealing” Asian women. Almost 90% of the angry Asian men I interviewed during college said they prefer to date Asian women but they go out of their way to date white or non-white women as a sick and twisted form of revenge against both Asian women and white males. Not many of these Asian males I know would say anything disparaging about Asian females but the opposite doesn’t hold true. When was the last time you heard about an Asian female posting on the boards that an Asian guy rejected her because he only dates white women? How many times do you hear sob stories from Asian men about Asian females rejecting them because of some type of racist belief about their own people? To be honest, you hear about the latter much more often.

Putting the blame on white people isn’t warranted. In fact, I’m sure of it. I can understand the general public (read: white) being more comfortable with Asian women because they seem to be less threatening. I can also understand if there is some economic reason for it as well. Positive Asian females in media are never a bad thing whether she’s selling toothpaste or buying a Christmas ham but when they’re sitting there displaying obvious negative stereotypes and being paired with another white man, it starts to burn itself into the American psyche which can cause social problems such as the disparity in interracial dating.

It’s true that the anger behind the disparity is because of the ratio of Asian females dating white males versus Asian males dating white women. Tell me again why I would want to blame white women again? Here’s a pretty good reason why: It’s not about males wanting to date interracially but rather Asian men wanting to stop Asian females from dating interracially. This is the main point I as driving at which you can’t grasp. Since they can’t stop or at least stem the tide, the only way to “fix” the problem is to lash out by dating white women and they see it [disparity] as a conspiracy between both white males and Asian females. So, by dating white women, they can kill two birds with one stone. In following, they can’t date white women because their image has been so badly tarnished by both white men and Asian women. That is why they complain about not being able to date white women because their “revenge” has been denied.

Asian men are dating white women as trophies (which is wrong in itself and I know not all interracial relationships are shallow) and like Gumby said, it’s happening gradually. They’re selling out but it’s because Asian women sold them out first. (Yes, I know not all Asian women. Don’t message me.)

This is why much of the anger is directed towards the whole Asian female community. Is it right? No but I understand. Asian males are just as guilty as Asian females but learn to accept your demographic's faults before playing the completely innocent victim.
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Last edited by Banana; 06-08-2005 at 07:57 PM.
  #118  
Old 06-08-2005, 09:50 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

The reason I bring up Asian women's plight is because it's more serious than any of men's dating woes. You hear incessant whining about the dating disparity on all message boards about this when there's a more pressing and urgent problem in our community. We can have two leitmotifs (dominant and recurring themes) on Asian American forums: Asian women's dire oppression and Asian men's dating woes. How about we ratchet up a constant drumbeat of women's dire oppression to match the dating complaints? I think that's only fair and we can care about them equally.

We've already said ad inifinitum that we need to have a better portrayal of Asian men in the media. What else can we do? And look at how almost all the Asian actors have equally sold out. So you think no representation would have been better? I heartily disagree. I'd rather have our lame representation than none at all. Because women are the consumers we've been pandered to and victimized (I dislike stereotypical portrayals as much as anyone) but if men were in the same position in Hollywood they'd do the same thing. So don't take it out on them. We have to fight the powers that be which is rich white male hegemony (white supremacist capitalist patriarchy) and we're all in that together. Targeting the source of everyone's problems is better than bandaid cures like attacking Lucy Liu or boycotting a movie. I think with all the media watchdog activity and groups out there, people are aware of these groups and are slowly changing for the better how Asians are represented.

I personally don't know an Asian guy who dated a white girl to spite Asian women. It's interesting to read your completely different viewpoint though. So it's all about the sexist notion of us being "your women". This is problematic to begin with. As for Asian women dating white men or black men we have to ask them why. They're obviously not stupid, any more than you or I.

Last edited by nola; 06-08-2005 at 10:05 PM.
  #119  
Old 06-18-2005, 03:37 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

QUOTE:
Originally Posted by sir humpsalot
as such, dr. hamamoto brings up the very subtle question of asking why the AF thinks WM/AF porn is about objectifying or laying it into the AF very rough. it's about a matter of control and subjugation of AF thru all the years of wars in asia and hypersexualizing the AF.
Ain't nothing subtle about it. Dudes I know be laying it down on the Asian women cause they think they coochies the tightest.

Anyway...

Ya'll posting Asian porn in here? Who ya'll got? PM Me if you wanna trade.

As far as clips go, I got Sakura Sena, Carla Maria, Teanna Kai, Finesse Navarro, Yuki Love, Christine Mendoza, & Gianna Jolynn.

I can't believe there is no porn in this thread.
  #120  
Old 06-18-2005, 03:52 PM
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Re: Yellow Porn

QUOTE:
Originally Posted by nola
I personally don't know an Asian guy who dated a white girl to spite Asian women. It's interesting to read your completely different viewpoint though. So it's all about the sexist notion of us being "your women". This is problematic to begin with. As for Asian women dating white men or black men we have to ask them why. They're obviously not stupid, any more than you or I.
Really? I know I've dated white women to spite asian women. Why? Because a lot of them say "asian men are so narrow-minded" and go straight for a white male who's even more narrow minded than myself. I mean, a lot of the sterotypes that perpetuate the role of asian identity tend to shape the framework of our minds before we have a chance to get to know someone. I usually go with the saying "treat everyone as an individual", because I hate hyprocrisy, and biased judgement. That's not to say the white girls I've dated didn't have their own minds made up about what I'm about, but at least they tried to shrug off their preconceptions of what I am, and try to get to know who I am.

A lot of APIA males tend to see the hyprocrisy that is mouthed out of asian women, and that's why they're bitter. How is it that we remind them of fathers, brothers, cousins? A lot of their reasons as to why they can't date an asian male tends to show their ignorance for the individual. If they're not attractive to you, just say it. I don't hold grudges against a girl if she finds a white man attractive, and me not. I however don't want to hear crazy explainations as to why, as if what they're saying will make me feel better. I'm not saying every asian female is like this, but some of the ones I've encountered have.
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