China vs Taiwan

[Adaon]

I'm just curious.....it ALWAYS comes up, and I haven't seen a thread about it. So here goes:

I can understand that people from Taiwan want to be proud of where they come from. Who wouldn't want to be? But, on the stubby side of that subject, I'm curious as to how many families who claim to be Taiwanese are actually able to track their linage back to NATIVE Taiwanese people. I mean, a huge number of upper class Chinese cititzens left China prior to World War II and during the Communist Revolution. Most folks I've talked to in SF who claimed to be Taiwanese in descent and ancestry could not trace their family ties past the 20s - 50s in Taiwan.
I can understand how the ethnic Chinese from Taiwan don't wish to be associated with Communist China via their political views.....but culturally and genetically, a majority of Taiwanese are "Chinese." What I don't understand is how some people can misconscrue politcal views as genetic backgrounds. There's no basis for it.
In all honesty, my opinion of being Chinese is only a phrase to categorize people, just like being called Asian...it's a classification of people of an ethnic and cultural background...

[iris]

Followers of Chiang Kai-Shek! My parents are second generation Taiwanese and first generation Americans. Diaspora by the Revolution.

I really don't care. It's a diasporic transnationalism issue and I've got no ties to either China or Taiwan. They seem to be co-existing fine right now. People can claim to be whatever they want to be. If they want to be Taiwanese, go right ahead. If they want to say Chinese. Fine, whatever.

When people ask me "what are you," I usually say American.

[rakovlam]

Originally posted by Adaon@Jan 19 2003, 10:28 PM
I'm just curious.....it ALWAYS comes up, and I haven't seen a thread about it. So here goes:

I can understand that people from Taiwan want to be proud of where they come from. Who wouldn't want to be? But, on the stubby side of that subject, I'm curious as to how many families who claim to be Taiwanese are actually able to track their linage back to NATIVE Taiwanese people. I mean, a huge number of upper class Chinese cititzens left China prior to World War II and during the Communist Revolution. Most folks I've talked to in SF who claimed to be Taiwanese in descent and ancestry could not trace their family ties past the 20s - 50s in Taiwan.
I can understand how the ethnic Chinese from Taiwan don't wish to be associated with Communist China via their political views.....but culturally and genetically, a majority of Taiwanese are "Chinese." What I don't understand is how some people can misconscrue politcal views as genetic backgrounds. There's no basis for it.
In all honesty, my opinion of being Chinese is only a phrase to categorize people, just like being called Asian...it's a classification of people of an ethnic and cultural background...

That's like asking how many Americans can trace back to Native Americans.

[Adaon]

Originally posted by rakovlam@Jan 19 2003, 07:16 PM

That's like asking how many Americans can trace back to Native Americans.

not quite, it's quite a bit easier to trace your roots back if you're Native American because many are registered in a database....I dun remember anymore, but my friend discovered her Cherokee Heritage this way....and a lot of people who might be Taiwanese would only have to ask their grandparents where they grew up....

[AltimaGTR]

Bein TAIWANESE, I call myself that because that's where I was born. I mean, if we tried tracing our origins and stuff we'd all consider ourselves African. But yeah, relations between Taiwan and China are cool right now, and its all good whether or not Taiwan becomes independent or stays as it is. LOL my dad used to be a Nationalist that strongly opposed the unification, but hey- 18 years in America can change a man.

[BeTheReds]

Well shit, if you wanna talk about ethnic and genetics then all Japanese are Korean. 1000 years from now, if there is still a taiwan and a china seperate from each other, would you still demand that all taiwanese are really chinese?

Chinese people aren't even all that closely genetically similar to themselves.

[iris]

Originally posted by AltimaGTR@Jan 20 2003, 11:25 AM
Bein TAIWANESE, I call myself that because that's where I was born. I mean, if we tried tracing our origins and stuff we'd all consider ourselves African. But yeah, relations between Taiwan and China are cool right now, and its all good whether or not Taiwan becomes independent or stays as it is. LOL my dad used to be a Nationalist that strongly opposed the unification, but hey- 18 years in America can change a man.

Yeah seriously dood. Some of my friend in Hong Kong are White and they've were born and raised here (HK) and they consider themselves Hong Kongers. It's trippy and I love it.

I was born in the good ol' United States.

[Adaon]

Bah, I am so NOT African descendant...and I did not descend from any monkey either....and I didn't demand all Taiwanese as Chinese, I'm merely stating that I believe some of the pride that people have as being "pure Taiwanese and not from China" is misplaced.....

[Adaon]

Dang, mis-stated last post....-sighs- most Taiwanese are descendants of Chinese immigrants/passers by....I'm not saying HEY, YOU'RE ALL NOT TAIWANESE...I'm just saying....that as much as people want to cry "I'm not Chinese, I'm Taiwanese." Great....but yeah, when someone implies you're ethnically Chinese, what's so wrong about being called Chinese?

[iris]

Originally posted by Adaon@Jan 20 2003, 11:31 AM
Bah, I am so NOT African descendant...and I did not descend from any monkey either....and I didn't demand all Taiwanese as Chinese, I'm merely stating that I believe some of the pride that people have as being "pure Taiwanese and not from China" is misplaced.....

Yeah I gets what you are saying. Pawr didi. *hugs*

And you just made a major part of my education obselete in a way.

<--- Anthroplogy major... :lol: :lol:

[SunWuKong]

i think it's kind of silly that we'd use the english terms of "Chinese" and "Taiwanese" in this discussion. what patrick really wants to say is that both are hua ren.

[MellowDrama]

Um.. anyone got some good ole Taiwanese native blood in em? Y'know, like "San di ren" (aka Tsou, Ami, Atayal, Rukai, Paiwan) and stuff? I know the famous Taiwanese singer A Mei is one.

There's a theory floating around, which has some credibility due to genetic testing, that the Taiwnese "aboriginies" are the closet living descendants of the ancient people that would come to populate Malaysia, Philippines, and Indonesia, the so-called "Austronesian" people. In other words, there is a genetic relatedness to the natives of Taiwan and the peoples of SE Asia.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Jan 20 2003, 02:03 AM
Um.. anyone got some good ole Taiwanese native blood in em? Y'know, like "San di ren" (aka Tsou, Ami, Atayal, Rukai, Paiwan) and stuff? I know the famous Taiwanese singer A Mei is one.

There's a theory floating around, which has some credibility due to genetic testing, that the Taiwnese "aboriginies" are the closet living descendants of the ancient people that would come to populate Malaysia, Philippines, and Indonesia, the so-called "Austronesian" people. In other words, there is a genetic relatedness to the natives of Taiwan and the peoples of SE Asia.

yeah, A-Mei is the daughter of a tribe chief. she's sort of like a princess. too bad her music sucks. :P

taiwanese aboriginals only make up about 5% of the population in taiwan now.

[MellowDrama]

Yeah that's what I heard. But do a some people have at least some "native" blood in em? I would imagine the situation is not unlike the Ainu and the Ryukyu in Japan, how they got interbred out of existence.

[BaiginLong]

honestly I think that most Taiwanese (excluding the aboriginals) are Chinese because we essentially have the same cultural and genetic roots
politically we may have some differences but see I'm of Chinese descent but I hate the communists with a passion but I still associate myself with the country because I associate myself with the culture and traditions of China
I don't know why the Taiwanese are so adamant in distinguishing themselve from the Chinese they essentially take on the same cultural roots and traditions as we Chinese do. I can understand though because I would rather not be considered a damn communist but then still
wo men da jia do shi zhong guo ren

No I don't think Taiwan is a part of china but we are still the same ppl
hey cantonese is a legitimate dialect thank you very much
and there are a hell of a lot more dialects than just the ones you mentioned
let's leave the economic and technological crap out of this becuase both countries are growing anyway so what's the use of making those distinctions
and DBS let's not diss our own people ok

and what's wrong with being of African descent?