FBI seeks info on foreign college students

[Craig]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/12/25/fb...reut/index.html

FBI seeks info on foreign college students

WASHINGTON (Reuters) --The FBI is asking U.S. colleges and universities to provide personal information about foreign students and teachers so the government can determine whether they have ties to known or suspected members of terror groups, The Washington Post reported Wednesday.

"The data obtained from schools will be compared with information compiled by the Justice Department's Foreign Terrorist Tracking Task Force, which is building a classified database of suspected and known terrorists," the newspaper said, citing sources.

The report said, according to a sample copy provided to the paper, letters sent from FBI field offices beginning last month ask schools to provide "names, addresses, telephone numbers, citizenship information, places of birth, dates of birth and any foreign contact information" for teachers and students who are foreign nationals.

FBI and Justice Department officials say language in the new USA Patriot Act allows schools to provide the data without notifying those involved, the report said.

The FBI declined to say how many schools have been asked for the information, or how many have provided it, but said compliance is voluntary, The Post reported.

"There's no requirement on the part of the colleges to provide this information," FBI spokesman Bill Carter told the paper. "We can request it and they can provide the information. They don't have to comply."

The newspaper said the Association of American College Registrars and Admissions Officers has told its 10,000 members that providing the information would violate federal law. It also noted that the U.S. Department of Education indicated in an earlier general advisory that some of the information now sought by the FBI cannot be provided without a court order or subpoena.

Sheldon Steinbach, general counsel for the American Council on Education, told the newspaper that he does not see any problem with the FBI's request.

"We don't see any reason why a school should not be able to honor this request if they choose to. ... This is part of the new landscape that we're all becoming accustomed to since September 11," he said.

In the weeks following the September 11 attacks, about 200 colleges acknowledged in a national survey that they had turned over information about specific foreign students to the FBI, most of the time without a subpoena or court order, The Post said.

[Commando_turned_MD]

This is a GREAT idea. :P
There is nothing wrong with racial profiling.................If it means greater security for this nation, I'm for it.............If you are a model citizen and student, you have nothing to worry about......Just stop bitching and whining about your rights...... Afterall, you're a visitor to this country...

[pfc beansprout]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Dec 25 2002, 06:14 PM
This is a GREAT idea. :P
There is nothing wrong with racial profiling.................It means greater security for this nation, I'm for it.............If you are a model citizen and student, you have nothing to worry about. Afterall, you're a visitor to this country...

...that's what the japanese thought during WW II..'model citizen' they were...'model country' we were not...

[rakovlam]

welcome to the 21st century. I believe a couple of the 9-11 hijackers carried student visas.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by pfc beansprout@Dec 25 2002, 06:18 PM

...that's what the japanese thought during WW II..'model citizen' they were...'model country' we were not...

The whole Japanese detainment during WWII. That was then and this is now.

I'm sick of the city I grew up in, work in and live in be a fucking target with a huge ass imaginary bullseye.

Profile the foreign students, I'm all for it. They're not citizens. Fuck em. If they have no malicious intentions they have nothing to worry about.

Why should a foreign student with malicious intentions be granted access to a top notch educational institution ie foreign terrorist student majoring in nuclear engineering at MIT?

Step in the right direction. Even if we catch one in the process of alienating a few, makes it all worth it. You wanna study here, play by the rules. If you don't wanna, see ya wouldn't wanna be ya.

Ensuring the safety of the citizens is first and foremost.

[angel nympho]

While it SOUNDS kind of fucked up, I think the governemnt has a right to monitor non-citizens who are residing in the USA. If they want full American rights, they should look into becoming citizens.

[MellowDrama]

Really, why don't we just stick a motherfucking barcode on everyone's forehead? Let's just cut to the chase.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Dec 26 2002, 07:04 AM
Really, why don't we just stick a motherfucking barcode on everyone's forehead? Let's just cut to the chase.

I suppose, yeah, the beauty of America is that you're [in theory] never supposed to be suspected of anything without reasonable cause... and being a foreigner is not reasonable cause. But I figure, doing a little background check isn't that big of a deal. As long as that's the only thing the information is used for. And I'm not going to be so quick to support this until I know what happens to those students who they find ARE somehow linked to known terrorists. ...The beauty of America is supposed to be that you can live here without fear of ... you know, all that crap people fear... but I suppose that those rights aren't automatically extended toward those who just wanna CHILL here for a while. I guess I'm borderline on this issue.

[VV o n g B a]

Profile the foreign students, I'm all for it. They're not citizens. Fuck em. If they have no malicious intentions they have nothing to worry about.

thats fine if u believe that citizenship automatically means u are above suspicion for terrorism. but being a citizen doesn't mean u aren't a terrorist. there's plenty of examples of homegrown terrorists (and american taliban). its easy for us to take rights away from others who can't do anything about it. hell, while we're at it, why don't we make all non citizens slaves? who are they to object? if they don't like it, then they need to leave the US before we do so. that doesn't do anything to remove the root of the problem.

registering students will only make the US marginally safer. if the US really wanted to stop muslim terrorism, all they'd have to do is leave saudi arabia and stop supporting israel. this would be appeasment. but it would also remove the main reasons that osama gets new conscripts. why would potential conscripts risk their lives if their main grievances were removed?

also, don't u think this plays somewhat into bin laden's hands? we're making our own society less free in order to accomadate him. i'm sure he'd be delighted to know what we're cooking up for noncitizens these days. people dream of coming to the US in part because of its freedom. but now if they come to the US they'll be thinking of what freedoms they will have to give up. how comfortable are u with this?

while i might have given the impression that i think the US is to blame for the attack and should give in, thats not really what i think. the US could respond in 2 ways to bin laden's attack that would make him happy.

1. they give in and leave the middle east alone.
2. they change their society to such a degree that its not what it was before.

but i think a third response is better. we leave society open and free and invite people to come in just as before. and we stay involved in the middle east. even to the point of forcing change on middle eastern society so that bin laden's support base withers. just as in afghanistan. with the overthrow of authoritarian rule in iran and saudi arabia, he loses money and men.

[angel nympho]

^-- While it's true that citizens can be just as much of a threat as non-citizens, citizens have a constitutional right to privacy. Non-citizens are guarded by different laws. While, in theory, we should give those rights to everybody, technically, the government only HAS to give them to citizens.

The gov's just doing what they can to keep an eye on people... for now, non-citizens are the easiest to spy on.

[pfc beansprout]

but you gotta realize...this is what we DO know...the government does shit we have no clue on what really is goin on...this can be the tip of the iceberg; and we should be concerned AND monitoring the government "monitoring us." :o

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by VV o n g B a@Dec 26 2002, 02:37 AM

thats fine if u believe that citizenship automatically means u are above suspicion for terrorism. but being a citizen doesn't mean u aren't a terrorist. there's plenty of examples of homegrown terrorists (and american taliban). its easy for us to take rights away from others who can't do anything about it. hell, while we're at it, why don't we make all non citizens slaves? who are they to object? if they don't like it, then they need to leave the US before we do so. that doesn't do anything to remove the root of the problem.

registering students will only make the US marginally safer. if the US really wanted to stop muslim terrorism, all they'd have to do is leave saudi arabia and stop supporting israel. this would be appeasment. but it would also remove the main reasons that osama gets new conscripts. why would potential conscripts risk their lives if their main grievances were removed?

also, don't u think this plays somewhat into bin laden's hands? we're making our own society less free in order to accomadate him. i'm sure he'd be delighted to know what we're cooking up for noncitizens these days. people dream of coming to the US in part because of its freedom. but now if they come to the US they'll be thinking of what freedoms they will have to give up. how comfortable are u with this?

while i might have given the impression that i think the US is to blame for the attack and should give in, thats not really what i think. the US could respond in 2 ways to bin laden's attack that would make him happy.

1. they give in and leave the middle east alone.
2. they change their society to such a degree that its not what it was before.

but i think a third response is better. we leave society open and free and invite people to come in just as before. and we stay involved in the middle east. even to the point of forcing change on middle eastern society so that bin laden's support base withers. just as in afghanistan. with the overthrow of authoritarian rule in iran and saudi arabia, he loses money and men.

No I don't. I know about McVeigh and others. We aren't immune. Please don't think I'm some wide eyed bushy tailed naive child who thinks this will solve everything and make it all honky-dory. But every little bit helps. I'm a citizen here, where's my right to be safe from two planes crashing into the skyline I'm used to seeing every morning? Even making it marginally safer is good enuff for me.

What about the freedom of those people who lost their lives? What about my best friend/cousin's husband where's his right to live as a normal citizen? What about the wife aka my cousin and kid he left behind? Explain to his kid why his dad can't be there for the last two X-mas's. Why mommy has to go to therapy once every week or two weeks. I accepted his death as a casualty of war, but it's not to say we can't do our best to prevent it from happening again?

Sorry, I'm not the least bit sympathetic. You gonna have to excuse me if I don't see eye to eye with you on this matter. I seen first hand on how foreign people with malicious intent can take advantage of our openiness. So you gonna have to pardon my selfishness, if I come across as that way.

[pfc beansprout]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 26 2002, 05:17 PM

No I don't. I know about McVeigh and others. We aren't immune. Please don't think I'm some wide eyed bushy tailed naive child who thinks this will solve everything and make it all honky-dory. But every little bit helps. I'm a citizen here, where's my right to be safe from two planes crashing into the skyline I'm used to seeing every morning? Even making it marginally safer is good enuff for me.

What about the freedom of those people who lost their lives? What about my best friend/cousin's husband where's his right to live as a normal citizen? What about the wife aka my cousin and kid he left behind? Explain to his kid why his dad can't be there for the last two X-mas's. I accepted his death as a casualty of war, but it's not to say we can't do our best to prevent it from happening again?

Sorry, I'm not the least bit sympathetic. You gonna have to excuse me if I don't see eye to eye with you on this matter. I seen first hand on how foreign people with malicious intent can take advantage of our openiness. So you gonna have to pardon my selfishness.

understandably..i would feel the same...but you have to take into perspective that even though 9/11 was a tragic terrorist attack...in is small in relative to the numbers of terrorist bombings worldwide.... :huh: this shit happens worldwide-but yet, only brought to our attention last year.....

[Commando_turned_MD]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 26 2002, 02:17 PM
No I don't. I know about McVeigh and others. We aren't immune. Please don't think I'm some wide eyed bushy tailed naive child who thinks this will solve everything and make it all honky-dory. But every little bit helps. I'm a citizen here, where's my right to be safe from two planes crashing into the skyline I'm used to seeing every morning? Even making it marginally safer is good enuff for me.

What about the freedom of those people who lost their lives? What about my best friend/cousin's husband where's his right to live as a normal citizen? What about the wife aka my cousin and kid he left behind? Explain to his kid why his dad can't be there for the last two X-mas's. Why mommy has to go to therapy once every week or two weeks. I accepted his death as a casualty of war, but it's not to say we can't do our best to prevent it from happening again?

Sorry, I'm not the least bit sympathetic. You gonna have to excuse me if I don't see eye to eye with you on this matter. I seen first hand on how foreign people with malicious intent can take advantage of our openiness. So you gonna have to pardon my selfishness, if I come across as that way.

I agree w/ you Dr.Bun-Boy.........
That's why foreign college students------especially the middle eastern folks-- should be placed under close watch.....for our safety..........

Although this is not going to eliminated all forms of terrorism, it does help........That's good enough for me

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by pfc beansprout@Dec 26 2002, 02:33 AM
but you gotta realize...this is what we DO know...the government does shit we have no clue on what really is goin on...this can be the tip of the iceberg; and we should be concerned AND monitoring the government "monitoring us." :o

I agree. If you read the patriotic act, some of it is good, but some of it scares the fuck out of me. They want to be able to listen to any of your calls, and stuff in your e-mail you can be liable for. I mean, it's all good and shit for a while, but the FBI doesn't even work with local police. We should know what they do to "protect" our rights.