Cleopatra's mother 'was African'

[SunWuKong]

wow. really? after her family's been in Egypt for, what, 20 generations? it's such a shocker to discover that Cleopatra was "part" African?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm

Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb.

Queen Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, the Macedonian general who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great.

But remains of the queen's sister Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey, indicate that her mother had an "African" skeleton.

Experts have described the results as "a real sensation."

more...

[Craig]

I agree, this is so shocking. The next thing you'll tell me is that Jesus (Hey! Zeus.) guy was really Middle Eastern and not Germanic.

[Sunflare]

Like no shit she has afrocentric blood. Right ? LOL.

[Craig]

At least I'm reassured that Genghis Khan was a wooden American-style cowboy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049092/

[Sunflare]

What kind of laughable nonsense will these archaeologists or journalists come up with next ? Stay tuned for the next episode . . .

[popculturepooka]

"Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb."

Because obviously she it's such a shocker that a woman with African blood be renowned for her beauty.

[Thanol]

It's news because Cleopatra was a Greek from the Ptolemy family. The Ptolemies were known for brother-sister marriages, so it was kind of assumed that Cleopatra was mostly, if not all, of Greek heritage.

[Sunflare]

Originally Posted by popculturepooka

"Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb."

Because obviously she it's such a shocker that a woman with African blood be renowned for her beauty.

That shit is so true !!

We both know the plight of black women, like Asian women, is sexist stereotypes but with a different spin to it from what happens with APAs (and to add, FOBs alike). In he case of the black woman, the stereotype carries the notion that Afrocentric women are emasculated and ugly because of their black skin, broad noses and kinky hair that they have to straighten out to appear more attractive to the masses.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by Thanol

It's news because Cleopatra was a Greek from the Ptolemy family. The Ptolemies were known for brother-sister marriages, so it was kind of assumed that Cleopatra was mostly, if not all, of Greek heritage.

ok but if Cleopatra was the result of brother-sister love for most or all of the 20 generations since Ptolemy landed in Egypt, well then that's pretty amazing.

[snailpoo]

Originally Posted by Sunflare

That shit is so true !!

We both know the plight of black women, like Asian women, is sexist stereotypes but with a different spin to it from what happens with APAs. In he case of the black woman, the stereotype carries the notion that Afrocentric women are emasculated and ugly with because of their black skin, broad noses and kinky hair that they have to straighten out to appear more attractive to the masses.

Um, I'd hate to dampen the pity party here, but Thanol is right.

The Ptolemaic Dynasty was incestuous, and not only did the ruling Macedonians keep the native Egyptians separate, they kept the royal family separate. Cleopatra's father and mother were siblings. She has only one set of great-great grandparents.

The discovery of African blood in Cleopatra's sister is "shocking" because Egyptologists knew Cleopatra's genealogy, and the ancient records showed that the family married itself with very few exceptions. It's "shocking" because physical evidence has disproven the written records the Egyptians themselves kept.

Then there's the supposed racism. If Cleopatra was black and if the sexist stereotype you mentioned wasn't an anachronism in late-republic Rome, why doesn't Plutarch or any of the pro-Octavian writers make any note of it in deriding Antony or in bolstering Octavian's adopted claim to Caesar in lieu of Caesarion's direct one?

[Sunflare]

Originally Posted by snailpoo

Um, I'd hate to dampen the pity party here, but Thanol is right.

The Ptolemaic Dynasty was incestuous, and not only did the ruling Macedonians keep the native Egyptians separate, they kept the royal family separate. Cleopatra's father and mother were siblings. She has only one set of great-great grandparents.

The discovery of African blood in Cleopatra's sister is "shocking" because Egyptologists knew Cleopatra's genealogy, and the ancient records showed that the family married itself with very few exceptions. It's "shocking" because physical evidence has disproven the written records the Egyptians themselves kept.

Then there's the supposed racism. If Cleopatra was black and if the sexist stereotype you mentioned wasn't an anachronism in late-republic Rome, why doesn't Plutarch or any of the pro-Octavian writers make any note of it in deriding Antony or in bolstering Octavian's adopted claim to Caesar in lieu of Caesarion's direct one?

I see, thanks for the added insight. I especially can agree with the fact that ancient Egyptian records are indeed altered for a variety of political reasons as we know there was much corruption in ancient Egypt. The recent findings by archeologists on the family lineage of Cleopatra disproves current theories to the family line which she came from. Hence the 'shock'

You will have to take my response to popculturepooka as a relaying of a perception concerning his POV. I'm not questioning the comfirmed facts you or Thanol presented.

As far as the racism issue you touched upon, yes, it did exist in Rome as it relates to exoticism. Archived anchient writings and historical records on the Rome can prove this. I must mention that it does parallel somewhat to todays problems to a minor degree I believe at this point.

But still what the poster said concerning the media and misguided writings on African history and stereotypes *in itself* and stereotyping of black women is a valid point and I just had to reinforce it.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by snailpoo

The Ptolemaic Dynasty was incestuous, and not only did the ruling Macedonians keep the native Egyptians separate, they kept the royal family separate. Cleopatra's father and mother were siblings. She has only one set of great-great grandparents.

yeah and they also know that there are illegitimate children in her ancestry.

Originally Posted by snailpoo

The discovery of African blood in Cleopatra's sister is "shocking" because Egyptologists knew Cleopatra's genealogy, and the ancient records showed that the family married itself with very few exceptions. It's "shocking" because physical evidence has disproven the written records the Egyptians themselves kept.

scientists are well aware that there's a difference between what historical records say and what archaeological evidence can yield. admittedly i don't know how much doubt they cast on Egyptian records. i know there's plenty of skepticism when it comes to Chinese historical records that detail events from more than 2000 years ago. so i find it really funny that they think it's so surprising that the Ptolemaic line would produce part African descendants after having been in Egypt for hundreds of years.

[BillBlythe]

i guess this is like the discovery of jefferson's half slave children. it's a bit shocking, if not marginally relevant.

[monkeygone2]

Originally Posted by Sunflare

But still what the poster said concerning the media and misguided writings on African history and stereotypes *in itself* and stereotyping of black women is a valid point and I just had to reinforce it.

yeah, calling it a "pity party" is pretty weak.

[Sunflare]

Originally Posted by monkeygone2

yeah, calling it a "pity party" is pretty weak.

Well I guess the poster who made that statement (I mean the poster in reply to my post you quoted in your post. . . Man this is getting confusing. LOL) is just strongly adherent to his perspective and knowledge on these topics. No offense taken on my part. Opposing opinions are essential to any intellegent debate.