Public Schools and Assimilation

[Yeahman]

Public schools help to assimilate immigrants. A huge plus IMO. That also means that diversity of culture suffers. For example, if all schools were private, it's very possible that Chinese schools would help keep Chinese culture alive even among 3rd and 4th generation Chinese-Americans.
Your preference?

[SunWuKong]

it's possible that Chinese schools (or schools of any other Asian ethnicity) would help keep Chinese culture alive even without all schools in the country being private.

[LaiSteve66]

I would never send my kid to an ethnic school or an all Asian school for that matter.

[Yeahman]

OK I didn't mean "all." But as it is, public schools are often the only choice for poor immigrants. Ideally, they'd be able to spend their share at any school public or private. But as far as it discourages assimilation, is it desirable?

[LaiSteve66]

Originally Posted by ye110man

But as far as it discourages assimilation, is it desirable?

That depends. If you value "cultural preservation" and that other stuff that yes, it is desirable. If you think people assimilating is good, then it is not desirable.

I personally despise the notion that having a certain genetic pattern or phenotype means you have act a certain way. The more people assimilated the better, and non-assimilation promotes a disunified society.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by ye110man

OK I didn't mean "all." But as it is, public schools are often the only choice for poor immigrants. Ideally, they'd be able to spend their share at any school public or private. But as far as it discourages assimilation, is it desirable?

ah, now i see your point.

i'd like to think that "discouraging assimilation" wouldn't be a problem because you really can't climb the social ladder in this country unless you learn to deal with white people. but this is a very hypothetical situation we're talking about.

[LaiSteve66]

^^Not just Whites. You gotta be able to deal with other groups as well. (maybe not so much for climbing the social ladder but still)

[applehead]

ack. i'm a bit torn on this issue.
i don't plan on raising a family so i guess it shouldn't really affect me?
anyway, i always thought that growing up in such a diverse
community was a plus for me. although my parents have
complained that having so many korean children around
when we first moved to the states delayed my english.
and it probably did.

but now that i'm going to a school that isn't so diverse.
most of the students are white. it feels weird.
when i get to campus, i feel like alice in wonderland.
it feels different. and it's not because they're white.
i think it's because they're white and because they've
only lived in that little town their entire life.

some girl asked me if i wanted to come to her b-day party
at friday's and get drunk. i just thought that was very strange.

oh. well, it might be the suburbia thing and not the white thing.

[AngryABCGirl]

I went through public schooling that was about 80% Asian in an area that's mostly Chinese and Mexican, I know it played a huge part in Chinese language and cultural retainment or whatever you call it and also my own ethic consciousness.

But I would say it did nothing to prepare me for real life and reality and learning to deal with different kinds of people, esp. white people. I think it left a really ghetto-ized mentality that lingers on today.

If my children are living in the US, I think I'd be doing them a disservice by not sending them to a multi-cultural school. At least I got out of that environment. I've noticed a lot of people I went to high school with or people who went to schools in similar environments and such really have a hard time integrating professionally in the workforce, even born and raised in the US and have some language problems. I know when I went to college my vocabulary had a bunch of holes in it cause so much of my social life was conducted in Chinese that's only been made up recently. And unfortunately I think a reality of life in America is that a mostly minority school will have gang problems, and that's a no no environment for future child.

I think either way even in a Chinese immersion school or one that's mostly Chinese, culture is always changing anyway in Asia, it's not this static thing to "retain through generations." The Asian culture I identify with is more like people in my generation in Taiwan, not that of my parents, but I think an older generation's preferred conceptualization of Chinese national culture would be taught in a school if it were private. I'd have to say any mandated education in the US would suffer from archaic tendencies in your hypothetical situation because of a lag that would exist and also I'm biased about the political agendas that this education would entail for Chinese-Americans because of ROC history. Any all-Chinese environment in the US takes on a spin of its own too, it wouldn't be preserving a Chinese culture, it'd be making a new one more similar to say what Singaporeans or Malaysian Chinese have. I think the idea of retaining is kinda faulty.

So I don't see the point of it at all for my children except for language retainment, which in my opinion can be done without having to send them too an all-Chinese school. Hell, I'll just send them to Asia.

So I guess my long-winded response would be no, it's not so desirable for me if it's at the cost of "assimilation." I don't see it as a zero-sum game though. You can still retain and remake an ethic culture without the cost of not being able to integrate the society, and you don't have to lose it to do so.

[tripostrophe]

I just want to make sure my children aren't growing up in an environment where they're a minority and getting all the poisons that come along with it. Realistically, that's not quite possible in most areas in America. But I think that there are probably going to be some environments where they'll be able to feel comfortable and feel free (or even encouraged) to explore their ethnic identity. If that means going to a majority-Asian school, so be it. I do see the importance in teaching them how to integrate into a White society however. But if they don't have the essentials of self-esteem and all that in the first place...

I think switching up the environment after a while may provide a valuable learning experience. Just have to make sure that they're encouraged to learn to love themselves, rather than hate, during some crucial years, though I'm not sure when those are exactly.

[eos]

no disrespect for suburban people, but i thank the good lord that i went to school in the city. sure, my grade school was all-chinese, and my high school was on the west side of chicago (read: ghetto), but attending both a private and a public school made me who i am. my grade school instilled in me the chinese culture, reinforcing what i already was learning at home from my family. high school exposed me to new cultures and people. but i never wanted to BE them. i was always comfortable with who i was, proud of being chinese and asian-american. i guess it also helped that i hung around people who felt the same way. not everyone is as lucky as i was.

[Yeahman]

It's not just about learning your native culture. Sure you'd be perfectly fluent in your parents' language as well as be versed in their history and arts. And sure, that's an immeasurable asset in this ever-globalizing world. But there's also a social aspect. Most of you seem to be viewing it as a negative. Let's be honest, even if you went to a diverse public school your whole life, you probably hang out mostly with fellow Asians today. That's just the way it is. So why not accept it and accommodate it as much as possible, instead of denying it and attempting in vain to eliminate it? If your kid's school is comprised entirely of kids of his native culture, he'd probably have more friends. It really helps self-esteem. He won't go all Virginia Tech later in life.
And really, do FOBs seem unable to function at work (apart from the language barrier)? It's really not that hard to "learn" how to get along with different people even if you grew up in a homogeneous environment.

[nameless]

Originally Posted by ye110man

It really helps self-esteem. He won't go all Virginia Tech later in life.

Yeah, and it's not like there haven't been any school shooters who grew up with their own kind. Oh wait....

Seriously, what was your public school experience and how has it affected you, yelloman?

[tripostrophe]

Originally Posted by applehead

ack. i'm a bit torn on this issue.
i don't plan on raising a family so i guess it shouldn't really affect me?
anyway, i always thought that growing up in such a diverse
community was a plus for me. although my parents have
complained that having so many korean children around
when we first moved to the states delayed my english.
and it probably did.

but now that i'm going to a school that isn't so diverse.
most of the students are white. it feels weird.
when i get to campus, i feel like alice in wonderland.
it feels different. and it's not because they're white.
i think it's because they're white and because they've
only lived in that little town their entire life.

some girl asked me if i wanted to come to her b-day party
at friday's and get drunk. i just thought that was very strange.

oh. well, it might be the suburbia thing and not the white thing.

I think it's possible that it feels weird for you going to a majority-White school because it's so White, and lacking in diversity. You seem to feel that the culture shock you're experiencing is because of disparaties between a suburban and city culture, but I feel that since the issue of race and diversity are inextricably tied in with these environments, it probably plays a bigger role than you may believe it to be playing. But then again, I may be totally misreading your post.

[tripostrophe]

Originally Posted by nameless

Yeah, and it's not like there haven't been any school shooters who grew up with their own kind. Oh wait....

Seriously, what was your public school experience and how has it affected you, yelloman?

I think the point that he was trying to make is that constant alienation from his community probably played somewhat of a role in Cho's decision to go on a killing spree. Portions of his speech/video seem to hint at racial discrimination or at least feeling like an outsider because of it. Which of course nobody who isn't a minority is going to pick up on.

But you raise an interesting point in that the kids who perpetuate these school shootings are largely White, but that commonality is never seriously examined as a possible factor in everything. Not that it should be, but...but this is a tangent.