Gwailo and Lofan

[kitty]

Originally posted by enygma@Nov 17 2002, 11:39 PM
umm..so if someone calls us chinese, korean, japanese, or even asian is being racist because they're describing us according to our race? sheesh, as long as they don't call us gooks, chinks, japs, etc. i'm not sure what gwailo or lofan means, but i don't think there's anything wrong with it. as long as you don't call them a cracker (now THAT'S being derogatory-to a white person, i guess).

I'm not sure where I see a difference between gook, chink, and all the words being thrown around.

[noriko]

i've never been to china, so I can't comment on any of that, but in japan, i've always kind of been bothered that everyone who's non-asian is called a gaijin, except black people. I was with a couple of friends, some japanese, some white, and one black. We were talking in English, and it was probably pretty obvious that we were from America. I heard people whispering to each other about the "gaijin to kokujin" (foreigners and black person). So why is it that non-asian foreigners-- white, hispanic, european-- are gaijin, but black people aren't, even if they're american?

is it just that everyone assumes american= white, blonde person? or what?

and also, i find it pretty funny that people in japan seem to assume that no non-japanese speak the language at all...it was ironic, b/c the aforementioned black friend is fluent in japanese, knows it better than me. Or maybe they just didn't care that they were beign rude cos we're foreigners?

[bwc]

Originally posted by noriko@Nov 19 2002, 08:06 PM
Or maybe they just didn't care that they were beign rude cos we're foreigners?

yes. That and the fact that either you or your companions were not japanese

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by noriko@Nov 19 2002, 08:06 PM
i've never been to china, so I can't comment on any of that, but in japan, i've always kind of been bothered that everyone who's non-asian is called a gaijin, except black people. I was with a couple of friends, some japanese, some white, and one black. We were talking in English, and it was probably pretty obvious that we were from America. I heard people whispering to each other about the "gaijin to kokujin" (foreigners and black person). So why is it that non-asian foreigners-- white, hispanic, european-- are gaijin, but black people aren't, even if they're american?

is it just that everyone assumes american= white, blonde person? or what?

and also, i find it pretty funny that people in japan seem to assume that no non-japanese speak the language at all...it was ironic, b/c the aforementioned black friend is fluent in japanese, knows it better than me. Or maybe they just didn't care that they were beign rude cos we're foreigners?

Well I agree with you on the gaijin thing. I don't see why Koreans and Chinese are not considered gaijin other than the fact that they are fellow asians.

The fact that everyone is freakin amazed that someone who is not asian can speak Japanese I kinda understand tho. In education system here they are taught that the only way to communicate with non Japanese is to speak English. Most Americans don't give a crap when we see Asian people who can speak English because English is a language which is spoken all over the world in so many countires, and there are plenty of Asian Americans who speak english natively, so an asian person speaking broken english does not impress us.

Japanese on the other hand is spoken in one. That means you have to have a lot of interest in that one country to learn to speak that language, even if you suck at it.

If you look like you are white but you can speak JApanese fluently, then it's very surprisng because it is rare. Just take a trip here and observe the majority of the white people and listen to their ear stinging accents.

I don't know why black people are lumped into a seperate category besides gaijin. But then why are asians put in another category besides gaijin? It's because Japan sees the world with some sort of racial heirarchy, which is not their fault, but the fault of their shitty educational system and stuf they see on TV. And the fact that 99.9% of the populatuon is Japanese.

[enygma]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Nov 19 2002, 08:40 AM

I'm not sure where I see a difference between gook, chink, and all the words being thrown around.

i'm not sure i understand your confusion. you don't see the difference between gook, jap, and chink, or you don't see the difference between gook , jap, chink, gwailo, etc.?

[kitty]

Originally posted by enygma@Nov 20 2002, 03:25 AM

i'm not sure i understand your confusion. you don't see the difference between gook, jap, and chink, or you don't see the difference between gook , jap, chink, gwailo, etc.?

Yeah- I don't see how calling a white person gwai lo is any different than them calling an asian gook or chink.

[kasia]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Nov 20 2002, 04:32 AM

Yeah- I don't see how calling a white person gwai lo is any different than them calling an asian gook or chink.

because gwai lo can be used in a nonderagatory manner. do you speak cantonese?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Nov 19 2002, 11:32 PM

Yeah- I don't see how calling a white person gwai lo is any different than them calling an asian gook or chink.

because gwai lo is used in a neutral manner. and because there's an entire history of subjugation of asian people in western civilisation, many times with the use of words like chink, gook, jap, etc etc.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 20 2002, 10:18 AM

because gwai lo is used in a neutral manner.  and because there's an entire history of subjugation of asian people in western civilisation, many times with the use of words like chink, gook, jap, etc etc.

Gwai lo is a relatively neutral term. It's not only directed towards whites. It just essentially anyone not of Chinese origin. Other Asians besides Chinese people ie Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese etc etc can be referred to as Gwai Lo, as well. I recall asking my mom (whom is Cantonese) about the term. But my memory is vague, since it was awhile ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the Cantonese speakers out there.

[enygma]

from my understanding of the term, "gwailo", it's not really used in a racist manner. the term is used to describe a person who is not asian. plain and simple. however, gook, jap, and chink have all been used in the past, and still is used, to demean those of asian descent. like i said early, i think calling someone gwailo is the same as calling that person white. i'm not being derogatory because i'm not assuming ethnicity or demeaning it. if i called that person a trailer park cracker, then that's being derogatory. i mean, someone mentioned this earlier, koreans call some white people miguk saram (american), but this doesn't encompass the europeans (wehguk saram) or the non-white americans so we also call them hayan saram (white person) or begguin. we're not being derogatory in any way and we don't mean any disrespect. it's the same when someone calls us asian.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Nov 20 2002, 10:29 AM

Gwai lo is a relatively neutral term. It's not only directed towards whites. It just essentially anyone not of Chinese origin. Other Asians besides Chinese people ie Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese etc etc can be referred to as Gwai Lo, as well. I recall asking my mom (whom is Cantonese) about the term. But my memory is vague, since it was awhile ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the Cantonese speakers out there.

i don't think gwai lo is used for other Asians. i've never heard it used that way before.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 20 2002, 10:51 AM

i don't think gwai lo is used for other Asians. i've never heard it used that way before.

I've never heard it used, either.

But hypothetically, can it be used? Like I said, I have minimal command of Cantonese. But if I recalled my mom's explanation correctly (which was like 15 years ago) it sorta can be used, right? Heh, ok stretching here.

I don't know how gwai lo became a negative term. I assume it's the same as lo wai in Mandarin?

[ellsworth81]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Nov 17 2002, 11:54 AM

Dai Faan Syu from Lo Fu Zhi! :D

Word... what a good comic

[ellsworth81]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Nov 20 2002, 07:29 AM

Gwai lo is a relatively neutral term. It's not only directed towards whites. It just essentially anyone not of Chinese origin. Other Asians besides Chinese people ie Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese etc etc can be referred to as Gwai Lo, as well. I recall asking my mom (whom is Cantonese) about the term. But my memory is vague, since it was awhile ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the Cantonese speakers out there.

hmm, not that i'd recall. it's mainly reserved for white people. in my family and my family's restaurant, every racial group that walks in has their own derogatory name hehe. but i'd say gwai lo is mainly reserved for westerners in the very least.

[ellsworth81]

but back to the topic... lo fan isn't used much around my area, i don't think gwai lo is intentionally racist. Maybe originally it arose out of anti-Western sentiment and resentment when westerners started interacting with China/Asia. When I say interacting, I mean invading and exploiting.

In any case, they're simply the terms we use to refer to white people. we could call them "baak yen" (or bai ren), but that sounds kinda stupid (or just too proper and literal). I guess Asians don't think how to be PC in their language :lol:

It's a term that's used out of convenience and I guess laziness in a sense. if you penalized every non-asian that has called you Asian, then there'd be problems.

there was actually a minor debate about whether haak gwai (hei ren) is racist. the "progressive" ppl wanted to move away from it and start teaching the local kids otherwise. what do you guys think? :huh:

now that i think about it, the only derogatory element in the term is the "gwai", which i think loosely translates into monster/devil/ghost etc.