Gwailo and Lofan

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Nov 17 2002, 02:54 PM

Dai Faan Syu from Lo Fu Zhi! :D

there is a canadian asian-themed clothing store that sells cool looking t-shirts of Lo Fu Zhi looking bad-ass. :) can't seem to find the link to it though.

[blue__blood]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 17 2002, 03:07 PM

there is a canadian asian-themed clothing store that sells cool looking t-shirts of Lo Fu Zhi looking bad-ass. :) can't seem to find the link to it though.

heh, they're a great trio.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure it's that "faan" too but for some reason, that term (faan gwai lo) comes across to me as racist as opposed to just "gwai lo."

[enygma]

umm..so if someone calls us chinese, korean, japanese, or even asian is being racist because they're describing us according to our race? sheesh, as long as they don't call us gooks, chinks, japs, etc. i'm not sure what gwailo or lofan means, but i don't think there's anything wrong with it. as long as you don't call them a cracker (now THAT'S being derogatory-to a white person, i guess).

[kasia]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 17 2002, 07:43 PM
i've never seen lo faan written before, but i'm almost certain it's the same faan as faan ke (tomato) and faan syu (sweet potato). it means western (technically it's "barbarian").

i think you're right, actually. i remember my grandmother explaining it to me a long time ago.

lo faan = b/c white people eat a lot of yam

loh baak tau = b/c japanese people eat a lot of radish

is this right?

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by enygma@Nov 17 2002, 11:39 PM
umm..so if someone calls us chinese, korean, japanese, or even asian is being racist because they're describing us according to our race? sheesh, as long as they don't call us gooks, chinks, japs, etc. i'm not sure what gwailo or lofan means, but i don't think there's anything wrong with it. as long as you don't call them a cracker (now THAT'S being derogatory-to a white person, i guess).

Well i don't know about gwailo and lofan either cuz I don't speak chinese, but I have heard that that term is derogitory from some chinese people. I am not claiming that I know anything about it, just saying what I heard. I do get angry about words like

gaijin - literally "other people" and refers to whites.. where as asians would just be whatever country they come from and jin.

In Korean the word yang-nom means something like that "detestible western fool" and refers to white people, when hayansaram or baekin would be fine, tho most people just call them migukin or miguksaram, which again I don't like because it assumes that all americans are white.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Nov 17 2002, 08:04 PM

i think you're right, actually. i remember my grandmother explaining it to me a long time ago.

lo faan = b/c white people eat a lot of yam

loh baak tau = b/c japanese people eat a lot of radish

is this right?

louh faan because westerners had been referred to as faan yan. (watch your tone with faan there, because if you say the wrong faan, you're just saying "normal people").

loh baak tau - now this i would personally consider derogatory. and yes it's because japanese people eat alot of radish - which cantonese people refer to as loh baak, the same word for carrot. even my grandfather, who is a staunch communist supporter and who experienced starvation because of japanese occupation, doesn''t use this term anymore.

there is actually an organisation in HK (started by a chinese HKer) that advocates the elimination of gwaai louh from everyday cantonese conversation, and claiming that it's racist. people in HK don't use the term louh faan. there is a term with the same exact sounding words that HKers use to refer to pirated CDs. faan as in faan baan. i personally don't use the term gwaai louh but would use the term louh faan (in HK i say sai yan - "western people"). i don't find gwaai louh racist per se, i think it's just one of thousands of cantonese terms that are very rough around the edges. it's like you wouldn't really say chaih louh right in front of a cop. you'd say chaih yan. but i don't advocate people stop using it. they don't use it as an insult, they just use it to refer to westerners in a completely neutral manner. hell, most local HKers have an inferiority complex toward westerners.

there are some westerners in HK that would like to see people stop using gwaai louh in normal conversation. but the thing is that the westerners who are actually proficient or fluent in cantonese don't care that this term is used and may even use the term on themselves. it's the westerners who don't know any cantonese or only know a few terms here and there that don't like the term. and i find that to be preposterous because they don't understand the language and they're trying to change it. they equate the term to "chink" and i find that plain insulting because they're basically defenestrating an entire history of racism and imperialism in western civilisation.

[Rmb-Zr]

Ah. Lo Faan. Many people have already said the way the tone should be said so i'll add one more examples...

Faan lay - come back (hmm if you think of this one it's like a paradox in chinese faan=come lay= leave)

As whether or not it is derogatory. . . I think it was originally meant to be.. but over the years it's been used so often it's lost it's impact. Gwai lo is even more common and acceptable. I have a white friend that refers to himself as dai gwai lo. cause he's a tall white guy.

I never knew the term lo baak tao was used towards Japanese people... Come to think of it, I have a old comic book called yerng chong tao (onion head). and in it there is a lo baak tao...

I definitly hear people using Gwai lo more then the more politically correct version : "sai yun". I personally use Gwai lo more too... actually i can't remember the last time i said sai yun.... man i'm racist?

[bwc]

gwai lo...definately not racist.

[blue__blood]

Heh, I just remembered the Mandarin (yeurn gwai) and the Taiwanese (lo ar) version of "gwai lo." If peeps think "gwai lo" is racist, wait till they learn Mando..

[syc]

I dont know about gwai lo being racist. I still use it. But if you dont think gwai lo is racist what do you think about Hak Gwai? the term used for black people.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Rmb-Zr@Nov 19 2002, 01:43 AM
Faan lay - come back (hmm if you think of this one it's like a paradox in chinese faan=come lay= leave)

ah... hahhah, no that's not exactly right.

the lei in the cantonese faan lei is not the same lei in lei hoih (leave). as a matter of fact, it is supposed to be pronounced faan loih, but some cantonese words are pronounced so many different ways by different people. if a HKer goes to Shenzhen and opens his mouth to start talking, people in Shenzhen will immediately know that they're talking to a HKer by the way he pronounce his words.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by syc@Nov 19 2002, 03:37 AM
I dont know about gwai lo being racist. I still use it. But if you dont think gwai lo is racist what do you think about  Hak Gwai? the term used for black people.

i don't know what to think of huhk gwaai. i personally don't use it.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Nov 19 2002, 11:36 PM

ah... hahhah, no that's not exactly right.

the lei in the cantonese faan lei is not the same lei in lei hoih (leave). as a matter of fact, it is supposed to be pronounced faan loih, but some cantonese words are pronounced so many different ways by different people. if a HKer goes to Shenzhen and opens his mouth to start talking, people in Shenzhen will immediately know that they're talking to a HKer by the way he pronounce his words.

what's with all the random "H" at the end of everything? :P I always thought lei (pronounced the same way as the first syllable of "divorce") is just the corrupted pronunciation of lai (pronounced the same way as the surname "Lai") ... and etymologically separate from the written word "loi."

[deez nuts]

<!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+Nov 19 2002, 10:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ Nov 19 2002, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
i don't know what to think of huhk gwaai. i personally don't use it.[/b][/quote]
haak gwaai, bai gwaai my mom used to yell at my friends for saying it.

when I was kid she said adding "gwaai" is low class. Heck, I got beat cuz of it because I adopted the saying from my cantonese friends.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Nov 19 2002, 11:01 AM

what's with all the random "H" at the end of everything? :P I always thought lei (pronounced the same way as the first syllable of "divorce") is just the corrupted pronunciation of lai (pronounced the same way as the surname "Lai") ... and etymologically separate from the written word "loi."

wait, which lei are we talking about now?
the lei in lei hoih is: <img src='http://132.229.12.115/cgi-bin/char.cgi?96e2.gif[/img]
and the lei in faan lei, which really is faan loih is:


for some reason, chinese input doesn't work for me on YW... so i keep having to pull out the images of the words...

oh and the reason there are so many "H"s in those cantonese romanisations is because i'm trying to use the Yale system, which is supposed to be the "official" romanisation. i picked it up from this dictionary i bought at Page One. look for it, it's a good dictionary, it has the cantonese romanisation as well as mandarin pinyin for the chinese words. and it even has an index for looking up words by cantonese romanisation.