China legislates against govt abuse of power, nonfeasance

[ahsingjai]

China legislates against govt abuse of power, nonfeasance
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_506333.htm
Updated: 2005-12-24 18:56

Local governments have been seen quite active in bulldozing private residences to pave the way for urban construction, which result in widespread disputes and protests across the country.

At the same time, they have done little to stop local factories that are draining out waste water and belching out foul smoke.

To curb the wide spread government abuses of power and nonfeasance on other occasions, China's national legislature on Saturday began reviewing the country's first administrative mandatory law.

It aims to tell the government how to limit personal freedom of certain individuals and freez their properties for the purpose of protecting the public interests, said Xin Chunying, deputy director of the Legislative Affairs Commission of the National People's Congress Standing Committee, Saturday when explaining the draft law to the parliament.

"Because of the lack of the administrative mandatory law, some government bodies have been found to be lax in law enforcement in face of severe violation of the statute, while on other occasions abusing their power of mandatory sanction," she said.

According to the draft law, no mandatory sanction by the government shall be carried out unless it is provided for by the law, and it shall be enforced by the government body with authorization by the law.

To counter the widely-complained government intrusion of private property and illegal check up of business account books, the draft law says the government body must show legal basis in advance, otherwise "the related party has the right to refuse."

"Commodities of small vendors along the street shall be confiscated by law-enforcement bodies for the purpose of maintaining street order," it says.

One of the important of mandatory sanctions is they should be carried out in a proper manner to minimize the losses that may occur to the receivers, Xin said.

According to her, the draft law does not apply when the government take emergency measures in case of disasters, public health crisis or social order crisis, or government orders on financial matters, or technical monitor and control measures on export or import goods, because they are or will be covered by separate laws.

[Player 0]

This is a great step forward for weeding out corruption in the Chinese government.

[didu]

Writing a law is one thing, actually rigorously enforcing the law is totally
something else.

[Player 0]

Originally Posted by didu

Writing a law is one thing, actually rigorously enforcing the law is totally
something else.

And your point is?

The fact of that matter is that passing this law allows the central government to more effectively combat corruption and take it as a serious threat, would you rather this law not be passed in the first place?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally Posted by Player 0

would you rather this law not be passed in the first place?

Yes, in fact, I would rather that; China and most other countries have damn well enough and too many laws already, such that many are contradictory and a rich person with many lawyers can always find a way around the law.

Corruption and land-taking was already illegal in China before they passed this useless law. Clarifying the administrative procedures by which land may be taken just means another set of paperwork to be filed (and falsified) before the officials steal it.

[didu]

Originally Posted by Player 0

And your point is?

The fact of that matter is that passing this law allows the central government to more effectively combat corruption and take it as a serious threat, would you rather this law not be passed in the first place?

My point is that there is no need for any additional laws. There are
enough laws currently to deal with whatever government corruption
there is. Laws are just empty words if the government is not willing
to enforce them, and more empty words are still just empty words
which is totally useless.

It's not like that the CCP does not have the ability to root out corruption
on the largest scale. My dad told me that in the 60s, there was a
nation wide anti-corruption movement organised by the government,
and every single official, irrespective of their gender, rank or their past
contribution to PRC, who was even slightly suspected of corruption
by the people was thoroughly checked and very hashly punished. After
that movement, the public servants didn't dare put a toe across the
line until after Mao's death and the beginning of Deng's reform.

My dad says that if the 60s' movement was to be repeated today, it
would produce exactly the same results -- except that most of the
public servants would probably be dead at the end of it.

[ahsingjai]

Originally Posted by didu

My point is that there is no need for any additional laws. There are
enough laws currently to deal with whatever government corruption
there is. Laws are just empty words if the government is not willing
to enforce them, and more empty words are still just empty words
which is totally useless.

It's not like that the CCP does not have the ability to root out corruption
on the largest scale. My dad told me that in the 60s, there was a
nation wide anti-corruption movement organised by the government,
and every single official, irrespective of their gender, rank or their past
contribution to PRC, who was even slightly suspected of corruption
by the people was thoroughly checked and very hashly punished. After
that movement, the public servants didn't dare put a toe across the
line until after Mao's death and the beginning of Deng's reform.

My dad says that if the 60s' movement was to be repeated today, it
would produce exactly the same results -- except that most of the
public servants would probably be dead at the end of it.

This of course would result in hundreds of CCP politicans defecting to USA or other countries that would love to get their hands on state secrets which the CCP doesn't want them to know.

[didu]

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

This of course would result in hundreds of CCP politicans defecting to USA or other countries that would love to get their hands on state secrets which the CCP doesn't want them to know.

Not if they do it properly, i.e. putting high level offcials under house
arrest, forbidding them from living the country, etc. But even if these
parasites managed to go to the U.S., so what? You have to expect
to lose some blood when you are taking out a tumor. What's actually
worse? Having someone who may defect in a high position, or losing
some secrets but rooting out the potential defector for good?

Isn't China part of an international system that allows it to track down
and bring home its own corrputed public servants?

[ahsingjai]

Originally Posted by didu

Not if they do it properly, i.e. putting high level offcials under house
arrest, forbidding them from living the country, etc. But even if these
parasites managed to go to the U.S., so what? You have to expect
to lose some blood when you are taking out a tumor. What's actually
worse? Having someone who may defect in a high position, or losing
some secrets but rooting out the potential defector for good?

Isn't China part of an international system that allows it to track down
and bring home its own corrputed public servants?

That's true. I would imagine USA not trying to accept crimminals from China that would greatly damage bilateral relations. but who knows.

If the CCP doesn't do anything, there will be another revolution. Civil Unrest maybe scatter and unorganized now, but when all the people become quiet, that's when CCP should be scared. That's when the people are organizing on a secret level.


But let's not look at this newly pased law so negatively. This law maybe useless because there are already laws out there that allow the government to unroot corruption, but this simply means that the NPC is talking about it. I don't think passing this law is the end of the issue of corruption.

[didu]

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

That's true. I would imagine USA not trying to accept crimminals from China that would greatly damage bilateral relations. but who knows.

Gee, since when has that stopped western nations from accepting rich
Chinese criminals? If these parasites were to defect, they'd do so under
the "freedom and democracy" banner, and there would be plenty of
"freedom fighters" in the west who are willing to do whatever it takes
to protect them.

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

If the CCP doesn't do anything, there will be another revolution. Civil Unrest maybe scatter and unorganized now, but when all the people become quiet, that's when CCP should be scared. That's when the people are organizing on a secret level.

Yeah, it'd be really unfortunate to throw away what has been achieved
for the past 25 years, but what will come will come.

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

But let's not look at this newly pased law so negatively. This law maybe useless because there are already laws out there that allow the government to unroot corruption, but this simply means that the NPC is talking about it. I don't think passing this law is the end of the issue of corruption.

The main thing negative about these laws is that it will probably end up
being just another lip-service from the CCP designed to delay and
exacerbate the inevitable. I think for the moment, the CCP still has
enough support and trust from the people to start a nation wide
ani-corruption movement just like they did in the 60s, and they still
may be able to save their power and the entire nation from another
bloody uprising.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally Posted by didu

I think for the moment, the CCP still has enough support and trust from the people to start a nation wide ani-corruption movement just like they did in the 60s, and they still may be able to save their power and the entire nation from another bloody uprising.

Uh, the policies of the 1960s resulted in a bloody uprising called the Cultural Revolution in which Mao turned people power against the officials. And the ultimate goal of every CCP policy since 1978 --- the good, the bad, and the ugly, from economic openness to Strike Hard campaigns against corruption to shooting protestors in Tiananmen square --- has been to AVOID a repeat of the 1960s. No one with any ounce of sanity wants those years to happen again --- except maybe some of the Red Guards themselves, since back then they were powerful and feared, while now most of them are unemployed losers.

[SunWuKong]

if anything is good about it, it's that they're trying to bring more attention to fighting corruption. note that this was an article in China Daily. other than that, it's kind of pointless unless the government makes sure there's a good enough justice system that'll enforce the laws. how about an anti-corruption law targetting the justice system itself?

anyway, i still maintain that the best way to fight corruption is to have a justice system that is not dependent on the officials it may try, and media outlets that are not government-controlled. you're not going to go very far with anti-corruption efforts when corrupt officials have influence or even direct control over the justice system and media outlets.

[didu]

Originally Posted by AliBabaIncorporated

Uh, the policies of the 1960s resulted in a bloody uprising called the Cultural Revolution in which Mao turned people power against the officials. And the ultimate goal of every CCP policy since 1978 --- the good, the bad, and the ugly, from economic openness to Strike Hard campaigns against corruption to shooting protestors in Tiananmen square --- has been to AVOID a repeat of the 1960s. No one with any ounce of sanity wants those years to happen again --- except maybe some of the Red Guards themselves, since back then they were powerful and feared, while now most of them are unemployed losers.

Wow, I got the date wrong, the first national wide anti-corruption
campaign took place in 1952, which was way before the cultural
revolution which started in 1966. So the 2 had nothing to do with
each other.

Cultural revolution's ultimate goal was to smash the image of
"authority", it didn't really have much to do with anti-corruption.