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Old 11-27-2005, 06:04 PM
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In Defense of Academic Quotas

I say academic quotas are good for a smooth installation of more APIA students and an inevitable APIA president in the Ivy League, if the APIA experience is anything similar to that of Jewish Ams in academia, which it is commonly said to be.

Related article:
"'The Chosen': Getting In" by David Brooks - NY Times
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:08 AM
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Re: In Defense of Academic Quotas

I don't understand what you're saying here --- Ivy League anti-Asian quotas will help Asians take control of the Ivy league?

The Asian-American experience is not analogous to the Jewish (in reality, "Yiddish-American") experience for a multitude of reasons, all of which may be relevant to the future role of Asians in America:

- When the Jews showed up to challenge WASP dominance of the Ivy Leagues, there were no other minorities composing any proportion of the Ivies. In contrast, Asians are expanding at a time when any gain on our part will be seen to threaten multiple other established interests --- WASPs, Jews, Blacks, Latinos, etc.

- The rabbinical intellectual tradition of debate and Talmudic analysis produced scholars who excelled in verbally and symbolically-oriented professions: media and the law are two obvious ones. In contrast, Asians have established themselves in the sciences (providing the obvious route of attack against Asians as "uncreative") Jews also did well in the sciences later --- but the ones who blazed the trail were the product of the German, and later Russian technical education, still one of the best in the world, rather than being educated in US universities.

- Jews are overwhelmingly a non-immigrant population, a trend which began with the Russian Revolution (which abolished the Pale of Settlement and allowed Jews back into the cities) and the 1923/ 1924 immigration cutoffs. At the time Jews made their massive strides into the Ivy League, there was little perception of "split loyalties" --- probably not on a political level until the establishment of Israel, and certainly not on an individual cultural level, given the level of assimilation to American culture the Jews had even back then (and anyway there was no international Jewish pop culture for them to participate in as an expression of their Jewish identity). In contrast, Asian-Americans are very vulnerable to the charge of split loyalty, both politically (Wen Ho Lee) and culturally (since many Asians in the US are foreign born, prefer foreign-language media and entertainment, etc).

- The world has 12 million Jews and more than TWO HUNDRED times as many Asians. This will naturally have some effect on how other Americans view the two, respectively. For example, as noted above, this means the individual Jew is not, like the individual Asian, likely to be pegged as a representative of the oncoming hordes of a "rival civilization" (a la Vincent Chin). This is going to become a bigger and not a smaller issue in the future with the rise of China, the turnaround of the Japanese economy, the emergence of Vietnam and India onto the world stage, etc.
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:17 AM
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Re: In Defense of Academic Quotas

QUOTE:
Originally Posted by AliBabaIncorporated
- The rabbinical intellectual tradition of debate and Talmudic analysis produced scholars who excelled in verbally and symbolically-oriented professions: media and the law are two obvious ones. In contrast, Asians have established themselves in the sciences (providing the obvious route of attack against Asians as "uncreative") Jews also did well in the sciences later --- but the ones who blazed the trail were the product of the German, and later Russian technical education, still one of the best in the world, rather than being educated in US universities.
To which, in particularly this point but also to your entire post in general, the answer would be:

Harold Koh, dean of Yale law.



Of all the Asians I knew in college, including the pre-med and the compsci people, I think the vast majority ended up, one way or another, in law school.

Last edited by snailpoo; 11-28-2005 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:28 AM
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Re: In Defense of Academic Quotas

Well, I don't know if you mean to imply the existence of anti-APIA racism, but I think that point needs to be repeated. APIAs simply aren't white and we will never have the "white" immigrant experience.

Also, I think, time and time again quotas work against the overwhelmingly applicable APIA college-going community. Unless of course, you mean to talk about tokenism. Then I'd have to agree, some of the worse tokenism is getting conservative folks from the APIA community. Oftentimes with values that reflect Asian not APIA values.
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Last edited by hooligan; 11-28-2005 at 07:32 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:54 AM
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Re: In Defense of Academic Quotas

QUOTE:
Originally Posted by Filiprish
I say academic quotas are good for a smooth installation of more APIA students and an inevitable APIA president in the Ivy League, if the APIA experience is anything similar to that of Jewish Ams in academia, which it is commonly said to be.

Related article:
"'The Chosen': Getting In" by David Brooks - NY Times
haven't quotas been used to keep Asian students out?
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Old 11-28-2005, 11:09 AM
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Re: In Defense of Academic Quotas

I'm saying that quotas are a tool of Ivy League administrators to keep the peace, not only with their European-Am constituency but in general. However, they're aware that if more Asians are not allowed in and an Asian is not elected as an Ivy League university president in the near future, due to the high number of Asians in western academia, the implications could be grim. Like that of Jews, Asian presence cannot be denied. If you take Lawrence Summers, the president of Harvard, a Jewish-Am, according to the WA Post article below and the book discussed therein, he was elected over numerous better-suited individuals, which makes it obvious that he is a token to keep the peace -- with democratic-minded US citizens and of course the 12 million Jews worldwide, not just the 2 million Jewish-Ams. Therefore regardless of the better-suited individuals out there, at least one Asian must be elected for Ivy League university president as a token to keep the peace -- with the 3 billion Asians worldwide and the 11 million APIAs -- there's a lot at stake here. Nonetheless, quotas must be used to keep the peace as Asians gain greater acceptance in the US.

Related article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Mar10.html
 

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