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Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
China (through various imperial governments) had a very long history of imperialism and colonization in Vietnam. There was a policy of cultural assimilation. Even after Vietnam finally gained independence there were still continued Chinese aggression.
http://www.asia.msu.edu/seasia/Vietn...onization.html QUOTE:
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Last edited by yuuteya; 10-31-2005 at 05:01 AM. |
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
Here more recent news in 2000 and 2004, between China and Vietnam
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#3
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
Almost every country that exists today (even most of small ones) resulted from conquest and "imperialism". In China at one time there was over one hundred "countries" or different groups. Then several "countries" defeated all the others then the several were over hundreds of years defeated by one. In this case the one is called China but it's the same I believe for Germany, England, Japan, Russia, India, America. (sort of different), Kenya, and most others. Only maybe fiji, and some a very few other very small countries started off with one group and stayed that way. Vietnam probably was created as a result of conflict & wars between many small groups which over time led to a country the world calls Vietnam.
John |
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#4
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
i apologize to vietnam and vietnamese people for the sins of mother china.
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#5
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4391690.stm actually i personally think it's ridiculous that China wants to claim the Spratlys. i say let the ASEAN members fight amongst themselves over those islands. then China can come in as an ally to help drill and export the oil to China. ![]() |
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
This guy is such a nuisance.
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#8
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
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"If you think not, you will blossom. Nor shall you blossom if you think.” |
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#9
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
This is Yuuteya's attempt to balance out the discussion/situation, because it's unfair that only Japan is being crapped on for imperialism so it's time now for China to take it up the ass in a few threads~ Never mind the fact that the sins of one do not balance out or justify the sins of another, but perhaps another day...
I would also suggest we move away from all this talk of racism in the U.S. and move on over to how China discriminates against ethnic minorities and how South Korea treats parent-less babies, mixed children, and foreigners. And how much the Turks hated the Armenians and vice versa. And the color/hue-based social hierarchy and how it differs in Brazil from the social hierarchy present here. Last edited by Napoleon Chynamite; 10-31-2005 at 01:45 PM. |
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
^ I'm way ahead of you on this atonement business. Today I got a cute Vietnamese girl's digits and we plan to have lunch this weekend after I fail my midterm.
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| deepthroat |
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This message has been deleted by kimpossible.
Reason: when the niponese need help trolling, we'll call
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#12
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
Actually, there's a lot of Vietnamese legends about strong women who fight off invaders. Usually, a lot of Chinese invaders. It's quite a feat for a peoples to carve out a culture that is kind of like the imperialists, but uniquely their own.
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#13
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
edit: did we really need some of these posts?
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| kusojiji |
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This message has been deleted by kimpossible.
Reason: quote of deleted post
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
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How do some of these posts relate to the topic? ![]() |
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#15
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Re: Chinese Imperialism in Vietnam
The Vietnamese
Vietnam was historically restricted to today's northern Vietnam and parts of China's Guangxi-Yunnan Provinces. The word 'viet' means the same as 'Yue', while 'nam' means southern. It was called Jiaozhi in Chinese history. It fell under Chinese influence beginning from Qin Empire. Zhao Tuo's Nan-Yue Statelet took Jiaozhi as a prefecture. Today's Vietnamese belonged to the same group as Jing-zu minority in China's Guangxi Prov. During the early conquest, Qin mobilized an army of 100 to 200 thousand people, mostly consisting of the so-called outcasts of then China, i.e., the men who lived in wives' homes after the marriage and the merchants whose occupation was deemed the lowest in then society. History recorded that altogether 500,000 people, again consisting of the disgraced men and the merchants, were relocated to southern China by Qin Shihuangdi. This explains the fact that today's Guangdong Province still possesses the most variety of ancient Chinese dialects. The people of Vietnam was an interesting group. They differ from Burmese and Thai people who were descendants of the Nan-Zhao refugees. They have a good mixture of Chinese and Austro heritage. The reason I said Vietnam was restricted to the northern part of today's Vietnam is that there existed many statelets in today's southern and central Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Chinese history recorded that the people living to the south of Vietnamese, in both Linyi (Champa) and Funan, possessed curly hair, a Negroid characteristic that has more to do with Dravidians of India. History of Northern Dynasties mentioned that the people of Linyi possessed relatively deep-socket eyes and higher nose bridge, which further supported the previous claim that the ancient people of southern Vietnam were Indians. History of Sui Dynasty stated further that the people of Linyi (Champa) possessed dark skin and curly hair, and that after first Sui Emperor Yangdi conquered Southern Chen Dynasty in AD 589, Linyi sent in tributes. Linyi stopped tributes till Sui armies, led by General Liu Fang, attacked them in AD 604. (Sui Emperor, in addition to attacking Linyi, had invaded Ryukyu.) According to History of Sui Dynasty, further to the southwest of Linyi (Champa) would be a statelet called Zhenla (Chang-la or Chenla), a vassal of Funan. Zhenla (Chang-la) male population were recorded to be small in size but dark in skin, but some females were said to have lighter skin. Chang-la people all had curly hair. To the west of Zhenla (Chang-la) would be a statelet called Zhu-jiang, and to the south Che-qu. Numerous statelets existed further, with rulers carrying Indian names. It is no strange to see this phenomenon when we examined the history of southeast Asia as a whole to find that Indian influence had spread across the whole area much before the Chinese poked their nose in the same area. In 110s BC, General Lu Bode (carrying the same title of 'Quelling Sea Waves' as the later General Ma Yuan) was ordered by Han Emperor Wudi to campaign in the south, and he first set up Rinan Commandary. The Linyi (Champa) Statelet would be where the Xianglin County of Rinan Commandary was. At the beginning of Later Han, Ma Yuan campaigned against the rebellion led by the Zheng (or Trung) sisters in the region of the Red River between 40 and 43 AD. General Ma Yuan erected two bronze pillars here as a demarcation line of Han China's boundary. History Of Liang Dynasty said that in the demise years of Han Dynasty, a county clerk, by the name of Qu Da, killed the county sheriff of Xianglin and declared himself a king. After several generations, the throne passed on to a nephew called Fan Xiong. By AD 337, someone called Nuwen usurped the Linyi Kingdom throne. Nuwen was originally a servant under Fan Zhi the county sheriff of Xijuan County of Rinan Commandary. Governor-general of Jiaozhi Prefecture was in charge of Rinan Commandaries. But Nuwen and his son and grandson kept attacking Rinan Commandary for generations. Nuwen killed Xiahou Lan (the chief of Rinan Commandary) in AD 347 and stayed put in the capital of Rinan Commandary for 3 years. Vietnam hence began as two states, a northern statelet called Annam (Nam Viet or Dai Viet) under Chinese influence and a southern one called Champa that displayed strong Indian influences. The southern Vietnamese kings are simlar to Cambodian kings, like in the names of Rudravarman etc. From www.uglychinese.org Han's Conquest Of Southern Statelets In 137 BC, Zhao Tuo passed away at the age of over 100. Grandson Zhao Hu succeeded him. In Aug of 135 BC, King Zou Ying attached Nan-yue. Zhao Hu reported to Han Emperor Wudi, and Han dispatched army against Min-yue. Brother Yu-shan killed King Zou Ying by short spear and surrendered the head to Han Emperor Wudi. Zho Hu then dispatched Prince Ying-qi to Chang'an the Han capital. Ying-qi did not return till 122 BC when Zho Hu fell ill. Ying-qi assumed the kingship till he passed away in 112 BC. Zhao Xing, a son born during the stay in Chang'an, would succeed Ying-qi. Nan-Yue rebelled as a result of its prime minister killing the young king, Zhao Xing, the great grandson of Zhao Tuo. This had to do with the adultery of the Han emissary with the mother of Nan-Yue king. Zhao Xing's father was a hostage in Han court and he married a kind of 'singer' woman; however, this woman was an old mistress of the Han emissary who visited Nan-Yue later. Nan-Yue Prime Minister, with the backing of Zhao Guang (King of Cangwu of Nan-Yue, a place in today's Guangxi Province bordering Guangdong), rebelled against Han. Hen Emperor Wudi intended to call Zhao Xing to the capital. Wudi dispatched Anguo Shaoji [i.e., lover of Zhao Xing's mother] to Nan-yu as well as stationed Luo Bode's troops at Guiyang as a military detente. Prime minister Luu Jia barely escaped from the assassination attempt by Zhao Xing's mother. Wudi then dispatched Han Qianqiu and 2000 soldiers to the relief of Zhao Xing's mother. Luu Jia and his brother then took initiative, laid siege of the palace, and killed Zhao Xing, the dowager queen, and Han emissary. Luu Jia erected Zhao Jiande, a son born by Ying-qi with a southern Yue woman, as the new king. Han Qianqiu and 2000 soldiers were destroyed about 20 kilometers away from Fanyu [i.e., Canton]. Han Emperor Wudi sent Lu Bode and several columns of armies, about 100,000 strong, to campaign in southern China. A naval fleet arrived at Panyu, namely, today's Canton, at the mouth of Zhujiang Delta, to attack Nan-Yue from the sea. When the Nan-yue remnants fled to the sea, the fleet pursued them to the Gulf of Tongking in Vietnam. Lu Bode's army sacked Canton in the winter of 111 BC, and killed Luu Jia and Zhao Jiande. Nan-yue land, including central and northern parts of today's Vietnam, were made into commandaries of Nanhai, Cangwu, Yuelin [Guilin], Jiaozhi, Jiuzhen, Rinan, Zhuya and Dan'er. The kingdom of Nan-Yue, starting from 207 BC and lasting five generations, continued under Zhao Tuo and his successors for almost a hundred years until it was reconquered by the armies of Emperor Wudi in 111 BC. Southern barbarians in Guizhou and Sichuan provinces were called upon as auxiliaries. But they killed Han emissary. Han armies killed the chief of southern barbarians and made the territory into Zangke (Yangke?) Commandary, namely, today's Guizhou Prov, in 111 BC. Four more commandaries were set up southwest of Sichuan, including Yuesui Commandary (today's southwestern Sichuan and northern Yunnan), Shenli Commandary (today's Daduhe River area in Sichuan Prov), Wenshan Commandary (today's Wenchuan and Songpan of western Sichuan Prov) and Wudu Commandary (today's southern Gansu and southern Shenxi Prov). Yelang Statelet was pacified and conferred kingship. Dian, aka Shoumi-guo, which Scholar Zhan Quanyou stated was built upon a Shoumi tribal statelet, was the next target. Two years later, Han Emperor mobolized armies of Ba and Shu (i.e., Sichuan) for a southern campaign, exterminated the tribal statelets of Laojin (i.e., today's Malong) and Mimo (today's Qujing) in eastern Yunnan Prov, and amassed forces onto Dian Kingdom and forced it into submission. In 109 BC, Dian Kingdom was conferred as a king, with a gold seal. (In Nov 1956, excavations of Shizhaishan Mountains tombs in Jinning produced a royal gold seal bearing Han Dynasty's conferred title of 'Seal Of King Dian' in addition to bronze musical instruments and swords with gold sheath.) Yizhou Commandary, with governor office at today's Jinning of Yunnan, was set up to control the domain. In western Yunnan, Buwei County, i.e., today's Baoshan, was setup, and in the south, Laiwei County (today's Laizhou Prov of Vietnam) was set up. In southwestern China, local resistance to sinicization was occasionally successful. In Latter Han Dynasty, Han would have to re-assert its influence that was lost due to the intermittent dynastic substitution by Xin Dynasty. In 36 AD, one group of Li-ren barbarians, who were said to be affilaited with Lao-ren barbarian, sought suzerainty with Chinese court. However, in AD 40, Vietnamese women, i.e., Zheng (or Trung) sisters, rebelled with support from Li-ren barbarians from Jiuzhen, Rinan and Hepu. The non-Chinese people of Wuling commandery, especially the people in Wuqi ["Five Gorges"], on the upper reaches of the Yuan River, by the present-day Hunan-Guizhou border, defeated local Han army in 48 AD. General Ma Yuan would mount a full campaign in the south. General Ma Yuan erected bronze monuments in eulogy of his victories. He erected a kind of gate on the West River. Ma Yuan went further southward and he also set up some bronze monuments in Champa, today's central to southern Vietnam. "New History Of Tang Dynasty" recorded that there were ten households in the name of Ma dwelling in Champa area, and those people refused to return to China with General Ma. 500 years later, by Sui Dynasty, the ten families had multiplied into 300 households. Wuling commandery had a major rebellion in the early 160s AD. In AD 178, Wuhu [Wuqi?] barbarians in Jiaozhi [northern Vietnam] and Hepu [Guangdong-Guangxi border], i.e., the land of Xi-ou and Luo-yue, rebelled. The Wuhu [Wuqi] barbarians, with a recorded cannibalism habit of eating first-born sons, continued rebellions during the Three Kingdoms period. During Three Kingdoms time period, Zhuge Liang, prime minister of Shu State, had once campaigned against southern barbarians led by someone called Meng Huo. Legends said that Zhuge Liang captured Meng Huo seven times and set him free for sake of captivating the hearts of southern barbarians. The 'MAN' Barbarians In the Prehistory section, we mentioned the terminology of 'Nan Man', namely, southern barbarians. The 'Man' designation is categorical. Chinese classics said the 'Man' barbarians were the descendants of Pan Hu. The Quanrong or Doggy Rong in northwestern China, i.e., ancestors of later Huns, were said to be descendants of Pan-hu, too. The 'Man' people were not a group of passive people as they seemed. They had rebelled against the Chinese numerous times. They also expanded into Chinese territories frequently. In the valley of the Xiangjiang River, there was a major rebellion in AD 157, and rebellion was seen in the northern part of Changsha, Hunan Province. Disturbances were seen in Xiangjiang River basin and extended across the Nan Ling Mountains to the south. Rebellions were quelled in AD 164. By the time of the Three Kingdoms, the 'Man' had migrated out of southwestern China and the Three Gorges areas. According to "History of The North Dynasties", the 'Man' people were scattered between the Yangtze River and the Huai River. They were seen as east as Shouchun of Anhui Province, as west as Sichuan Province, and as north as Henan Province. They were not a threat during Ts'ao Ts'ao Wei Dynasty of the Three Kingdoms time period. But they began to multiply by the end of Jinn Dynasty. As a result of devastation dealt by Hunnic Han & Zhao Dynasties, the central areas of China became vacant. Hence, the 'Man' people began to migrate northward. In AD 386, Toba set up Wei Dynasty and controlled the areas around the Yellow River. In AD 423, a 'Man' king called Mei An led a column of a thousand people on a pilgrimage to Toba Wei's capital. They requested for their prince to be a hostage with Toba Wei. This 'Man' prince, Mei Bao, was later conferred the title of governor of Jiangzhou Prefecture and the Duke of Shunyang. Another 'Man' king, Wenwulong, surrendered to the Tobas and was conferred the title of governor of Southern Yongzhou Prefecture and Marquis of Luyang. One more 'Man' king, called 'Taiyang Man' or the sun 'Man', by the name of Heng Dan, surrendered his 80,000 households to the Toba, and they were located in the ancient Mian-Shui River areas (in today's Shaanxi-Hubei Provinces). Heng Dan was conferred the title of governor of Eastern Jingzhou Prefecture and King of Xiangyang. Heng Dan, however, was the son of ex-Jin general Heng Xuan (who had at one time deposed the Eastern Jinn emperor in an abortive rebellion). Heng Dan, still a boy, fled to the barbarians for asylum after Heng Xuan's failure in rebellion against Eastern Jinn Dynasty. The 'Man' people were kind of sanwiched between Toba Wei and the southern dynasties of the Chinese. They rebelled against Toba Wei, and some fled to southern dynasties for protection. One group was relocated to Yangzhou Prefecture under Southern Liang Dynasty (AD 502-557). Li-ren barbarians, who supported Trung sisters in 1st century, were recorded to be active in Cangwu-Yuelin-Hepu-Ningpu-Gaoliang, and have rebelled against Yuelin [Guilin] and killed Xun Xiang the magistrate of Southern Liang Dynasty in AD 502. When Toba Wei underwent Hunnic rebellions in the north, the 'Man' people around the Three Gorges and today's Hubei Province rebelled as well. In AD 566, Northern Zhou (AD 551-587) armies, under Lu Teng and Sima Yi, dealt the Three Gorges 'Man' a devastating defeat, and tens of thousands of skulls were piled up as a warning to the 'Man' people. "History of The North Dynasties" said that in AD 572, the 'Man' people stopped rebellion. there are so much info, I already feel this is over posting their stuff. But if yall interested in history and prehistory stuff. This site is full of info. www.uglychinese.org
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Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare. Harriet Martineau Last edited by ahsingjai; 11-01-2005 at 04:37 AM. |
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