Japan, China to launch joint study over history

[ahsingjai]

Japan, China to launch joint study over history
http://japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=&id=336526

Sunday, May 8, 2005 at 05:00 JST
KYOTO — Japan and China agreed Saturday to launch a joint study on their history, Japanese government officials said. The agreement was concluded in a meeting between Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura and his Chinese counterpart Li Zhaoxing on the sidelines of Asia-Europe foreign ministerial talks in Kyoto.
While Machimura proposed that they decide concretely how to promote the project by the end of this year, Li said he will accept the framework of the study group either as Japan-China or Japan-China-South Korea, according to the officials. (Kyodo News)

[VV o n g B a]

bout time they came to their goddamn senses.

[ahsingjai]

http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/englis...ent_439983.htm

China, Japan clash over past, but look to move forward
(Agencies)
Updated: 2005-05-08 08:42

Japan and China clashed over memories of the past but agreed to take small steps forward including a joint study of history to get their icy relations off rock bottom.

China's Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing (L) speaks to Japan's Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura at the start of a trilateral meeting between Japan, China and South Korea on the sidelines of the Asia-Europe Meeting of foreign ministers in Kyoto May 7, 2005. [Reuters]
In talks between foreign ministers, China and Japan traded demands over rows including anti-Japanese demonstrations in China, the Taiwan issue, and Japanese PM Junichiro Koizumi's annual visits to a notorious war shrine.

But Nobutaka Machimura of Japan and China's Li Zhaoxing agreed to try to repair their relations. Li refused to apologize for Chinese protesters' damage to some Japanese interests in the past few weekends. The sometimes violent demonstrations were set off by Japan's approval of a textbook that many critics say whitewashes Japan's brutal and sometimes barbarous 1931-1945 occupation of China.

Japanese foreign ministry spokesman Hatsuhisa Takashima said the two countries agreed to study their contentious shared history together. "Both countries will select members of the joint study group, and will agree on modalities at the end of this year," Takashima said.

"The two parties expressed their strong wish that relations between Japan and China will be improved, with recognition that these relations not only have bilateral impact but also influence the situation in Asia and the whole world," he said.

But the two foreign ministers clashed openly about how each side's textbooks portray the other country, said another Japanese official.

"Juxtaposing our Chinese history textbook and the textbook of the Japanese rightists is like putting together right and wrong," Li was quoted as telling Machimura.

The Japanese official said Machimura responded by saying Japanese lawmakers had been concerned about "extreme expressions and small remarks about Japan's international contribution after the war" in Chinese textbooks.

The meeting in Kyoto, Japan, where Li was attending a 38-nation Asia-Europe Meeting, came two weeks after Koizumi offered a rare apology for Japan's past before a Jakarta conference, and held a summit with Chinese President Hu Jintao.

China's foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said that Li "hoped that Japan can put into actions what it has expressed about the question of history -- that is to implement in action its introspection and apology over history."

The Japanese official interpreted the remark as the latest Chinese warning for Koizumi to stop his annual pilgrimages to the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo which venerates Japanese war dead including some convicted war criminals.

Li also warned Japan to stay out of the Taiwan issue after Tokyo and Washington declared the island, which both countries admit is integral part of China’s territory, part of their “shared security concern”.

"I would like to say calmly to Japan: The Taiwan issue is a domestic affair and a matter of life or death to us. It is dangerous to interfere in China's matter of life or death," Li was quoted as saying.

But Qin, the Chinese spokesman, said China also hoped to increase people-to-people contact including by bringing students from prestigious Peking University to perform in Japan.

"We hope that by stepping up the two countries' exchanges, we can deepen both sides' mutual understanding and strengthen friendliness between the two sides," Qin said.

Friction steadily increased in recent months between East Asia's two leading powers. Japan's bid to play a greater global role has met Chinese demands that Tokyo must do more to atone for its wartime aggression. Japan has been struggling to overcome perceptions in Asia that it has not atoned for its wartime past as it lobbies to win a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, whose composition dates from World War II.

[SunWuKong]

"It is dangerous to interfere in China's matter of life or death," Li was quoted as saying.

i don't know why, but i just found that really funny.

[yoMAMA]

It's a good start.

But everyone needs to look honestly at their own history, be it the khmer rouge in cambodia or russian occupation in the baltics/massacres of polish after WW2, the armenian genocide by the ottoman empire, european attrocities in the new world...etc.

[AltimaGTR]

My reply to mistah Li: FUCK OFF YOU DON'T REALLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT TAIWAN ANYWAYS!

[ahsingjai]

China give every shit about taiwan. It's like the #1 concern for China.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

China give every shit about taiwan. It's like the #1 concern for China.

well, no. the economy is. otherwise the Chinese government wouldn't allow Taiwanese businessmen to do business in mainland China, in an effort to cripple the Taiwanese economy - which would also probably cripple the Chinese economy.

[yoMAMA]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

well, no. the economy is. otherwise the Chinese government wouldn't allow Taiwanese businessmen to do business in mainland China, in an effort to cripple the Taiwanese economy - which would also probably cripple the Chinese economy.

yeah, the chinese and taiwanese economy are so symbiotic now days-you are part of me, I'm part of you.

which is good...this way, war doesn't happen.

[ahsingjai]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

well, no. the economy is. otherwise the Chinese government wouldn't allow Taiwanese businessmen to do business in mainland China, in an effort to cripple the Taiwanese economy - which would also probably cripple the Chinese economy.

China has gone to war many times before, despite catastrophic consequences for the economy. The modern history of China is based on national unification, and there is no doubt that China will go all the way.

http://www.fas.org/news/taiwan/1999/990811-taiwan1.htm

On December 3, the Chinese military even warned that it was prepared to sacrifice economic growth and risk a boycott of the 2008 Olympic Games to prevent Taiwan declaring independence.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/de...chin-d22.shtml

Premier Wen Jiabao (溫家寶) has said China would pay "any price to safeguard the unity of the motherland." According to Chinese military sources, the country would be prepared to forgo the 2008 Olympic Games and brace for an economic downturn, including a drop in foreign investments, as well as to incur military casualties to achieve this goal.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit.../28/2003138414

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

China has gone to war many times before, despite catastrophic consequences for the economy. The modern history of China is based on national unification, and there is no doubt that China will go all the way.

that was before China opened up. i mean, China has done many things despite all kinds of horrible shit happening, like people starving to death.

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

http://www.fas.org/news/taiwan/1999/990811-taiwan1.htm

On December 3, the Chinese military even warned that it was prepared to sacrifice economic growth and risk a boycott of the 2008 Olympic Games to prevent Taiwan declaring independence.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/de...chin-d22.shtml

Premier Wen Jiabao (溫家寶) has said China would pay "any price to safeguard the unity of the motherland." According to Chinese military sources, the country would be prepared to forgo the 2008 Olympic Games and brace for an economic downturn, including a drop in foreign investments, as well as to incur military casualties to achieve this goal.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit.../28/2003138414

and the Chinese government also claims that anybody who makes a website to criticise it, is a danger to the country. do you also believe in that?

[AltimaGTR]

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

China give every shit about taiwan. It's like the #1 concern for China.

What are your concerns about Taiwan? I care cuz my family is over there. What does it matter to the Chinese if we become independent or not? National pride? Is it really worth it? Is this an issue that keeps everyone in China up at night, knowing that somewhere there are a group of people that don't like unification? China knows damn well that they could trade with Taiwan either way.

I'm sorry for being off topic, but it just pissed me off. I like the idea of China and Japan doing student exchanges. Were there obstacles to doing this in the first place? This could be an opportunity for everyone to see that not all Japanese/Chinese are extreme.

[Emperor_Mike]

Kiss and make up? Oh yes. Trade is king.

[ahsingjai]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

that was before China opened up. i mean, China has done many things despite all kinds of horrible shit happening, like people starving to death.



and the Chinese government also claims that anybody who makes a website to criticise it, is a danger to the country. do you also believe in that?

It is not whether we have to believe it or not, it is the spoken word. It's also law and policy for PRC.

What are your concerns about Taiwan? I care cuz my family is over there. What does it matter to the Chinese if we become independent or not? National pride? Is it really worth it? Is this an issue that keeps everyone in China up at night, knowing that somewhere there are a group of people that don't like unification? China knows damn well that they could trade with Taiwan either way.

I'm sorry for being off topic, but it just pissed me off. I like the idea of China and Japan doing student exchanges. Were there obstacles to doing this in the first place? This could be an opportunity for everyone to see that not all Japanese/Chinese are extreme.

Just cuz I pointed out some facts, it doesn't necessarily mean its a opinion of mines. I do not wish any chinese people from either side to spill blood over stubborn rivialries.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally Posted by AltimaGTR

What are your concerns about Taiwan? I care cuz my family is over there. What does it matter to the Chinese if we become independent or not? National pride? Is it really worth it? Is this an issue that keeps everyone in China up at night, knowing that somewhere there are a group of people that don't like unification? China knows damn well that they could trade with Taiwan either way.

There's also something about the snowball effect where China fears that if it gives up Taiwan, other groups (like ethnic minorities) will start pushing for independence. Frankly, yes, it is a matter of national pride, but it's not as simple as that, since the modern Chinese nation was only able to be what it is today based upon this concept of "one China" and unity, and of course the repeated assimilation of regional peoples into the Han majority and dominant culture over time.

I'm not for either side because frankly I really don't give a shit (well maybe a little, but there are many more important things on my mind right now), but I ask the same question toward the other side, why would it be important for some Taiwanese to push for independence instead of maintaining the status quo? National pride? Is it really worth it? According to polls however, most Taiwanese don't think so I guess.