Bill O'Reilly is Catholic?

[Faithless]

Okay, so maybe not a surprise. But it's what he believes and the positions he takes while professing to be Catholic that gets me. (Of course the information is a couple of years old, and you don't know if the religious right has finally converted him to their ways.)

The Gay Financial Network once called O'Reilly an ...Unexpected Gay Rights Advocate

...
Although the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Discrimination, or GLAAD, naturally disagrees with O'Reilly's stand that gay men and lesbians should keep their sexual preference to themselves, the organization recognizes that O'Reilly has backed them on a vital issue, reaching an important audience heretofore unreachable by gay activists.

Representatives of GLAAD watch O'Reilly's show closely and understand what it feels like to be pre-judged.

"I think it's been really interesting to see him, now that he's come out more publicly and strongly in support of anti-discrimination," Cathy Renna, a GLAAD spokesperson said. "On some level, it is kind of a surprise. I'm not surprised by the reaction."

O'Reilly remains unequivocal in his views and remains unbowed by the "fanatics" on the right.

"We've always said, 'don't let your ideology hold you captive,"' he said. "Now if they feel betrayed because I make a point that it's better to have a child with a stable home, even if it's run by homosexuals, than to be in the unbelievably chaotic atmosphere of foster care, if they feel that's a betrayal, then that's on them. We gave them more than enough time to come on the program and explain their point of view."

I would have figured that he would be all against gays. But then I also read this old article about his attitude toward this one dude, Stephen Bennett, who calls himself an "ex-gay", that caused me to do a double-take on O'Reilly -- especially with regards to the Bennett's supposedly biblical knowledge.

Partial O'Reilly Factor transcript...

...
BENNETT: We love you.

If I could just preface first, what I would like to say is that I’ve come out of the homosexual lifestyle. I lived that way until I was 28 years old, well with over a hundred men sexually, many whom are dead today from AIDS.

I was finally in love with another man who was going to be my partner for life. I mean, he -- he was the man of my dreams, I thought, until finally, one day, a Christian woman showed up at my door with a Bible and asked if she could share with me the gospel of Christ, and she confronted me about my homosexuality that day.

O’REILLY: Yeah.

BENNETT: And I have never been the same since.

O’REILLY: Well, that’s great.

BENNETT: That was 12 years ago.

O’REILLY: Good for you. I mean, look, if that’s the way you want to live, that’s fine. But what’s the beef with me?

BENNETT: What’s the beef with you?

O’REILLY: Yeah.

BENNETT: The beef is, for the past year and a half, we’ve -- I’ve been watching your show. I love your show.

O’REILLY: Good.

BENNETT: And when you confront this issue of homosexuality or talk about this and when you say that you’re quoting from the Bible, you are wrong on some certain things.

O’REILLY: All right. What am I wrong on?

BENNETT: OK. Can I read to you from your Catholic Bible?

O’REILLY: Well, look, just keep it tight, all right.

BENNETT: All right. I will do it...

O’REILLY: Go ahead.

BENNETT: ... very, very quickly. A lot of times you say you have a problem with the Old Testament, it seems.

O’REILLY: I have a big problem with the Old Testament.

BENNETT: OK.

O’REILLY: Do you take that literally, by the way?

BENNETT: I do.

O’REILLY: Oh, you do.

BENNETT: I do.

O’REILLY: OK. Well, that’s interesting because I’ve got a few quotes I’m going to read to you, but...

BENNETT: OK.

O’REILLY: You take the Old Testament literally. You believe that everything that’s written in the Old Testament is gospel truth and should be adhered to to the letter?

BENNETT: I believe everything in the Bible is the inerrant word of God, completely...

O’REILLY: OK. Well, how about Deuteronomy 22, 20-21 verse? "If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, they shall bring her to her father’s house and there the men of the town shall stone her to death." Are you going to be stoning non-virgins to death?

BENNETT: No way. No way.

O’REILLY: OK. That’s Deuteronomy.

How about Exodus? "For six days, work is to be done. The seventh day is the sabbath, of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does work on the sabbath must be put to death." Are you going to putting people to death if they’re working on Sunday, on sabbath?

BENNETT: No way. No way. You know why?

O’REILLY: OK. What’s -- come on.

BENNETT: Because Jesus Christ came and paid for it all on the cross. Now you should have learned that in Catholic school.

O’REILLY: Look, it has nothing to do with the Old Testament, OK. Nothing at all to do with what I just read.

BENNETT: Can I read -- can I read you this about homosexuality? This is where you say...

O’REILLY: Yeah. It’s an abomination, and they’re all going to hell, right?

BENNETT: Forget that. No. And that is wrong. That is wrong.

O’REILLY: They’re not all going to hell?

BENNETT: God offers hope to the homosexual. I want to read you something...

O’REILLY: All right.

BENNETT: ... from Romans. You say that -- a lot of times, I’ve heard you say before where the New Testament does not talk about homosexuality. You’ve said that.

O’REILLY: This is Romans. This isn’t a gospel now.

BENNETT: Now you’re picking and choosing what the Bible -- what you’re...

O’REILLY: Look, the gospel is named the gospel, Mr. Bennett, for a reason. That is the word of God. That’s the gospel.

BENNETT: Do you believe Jesus Christ is God? As a Catholic, do you...

O’REILLY: Yes. Of course I do.

BENNETT: You believe he’s God?

O’REILLY: As a Catholic. As a Catholic.

BENNETT: OK.

O’REILLY: Yes.

BENNETT: The Bible says that God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah, correct?

O’REILLY: Correct.

BENNETT: God -- if Jesus is God and God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah...

O’REILLY: Right.

BENNETT: ... Jesus made a very clear statement against that. Is that correct?

O’REILLY: I believe that was an allegorical story. You know what I mean by an allegorical...

BENNETT: You don’t believe it literally.

O’REILLY: No, I don’t believe it literally.

BENNETT: OK. So, right here, we’re not meeting on the same...

O’REILLY: Right. We’re not meeting on the same wavelength. I don’t believe that there was smiting of slaves, that you could kill a girl who’s not a virgin, and all of this stuff. It’s allegorical.

BENNETT: You need a course in Bible...

O’REILLY: Fine. I need a lot of courses, Mr. Bennett.

Let’s talk about living in a secular society.

BENNETT: OK.

O’REILLY: You believe that all these homosexuals practicing are going to hell, correct? Is that correct or not?

BENNETT: No.

O’REILLY: All right.

BENNETT: It is dead wrong.

O’REILLY: All right. So you don’t believe they’re going to hell?

BENNETT: Practicing homosexuals.

O’REILLY: Yeah. Practicing. Do you believe they’re going to hell? Yes or no?

BENNETT: I believe what the Bible says.

O’REILLY: All right. Fine. Then you believe they’re going to hell.

BENNETT: That is wrong. That is wrong. God offers -- God offers hope to homosexuals.

O’REILLY: Yeah, if they do what you do and convert.

BENNETT: Convert.

O’REILLY: Right. Convert. Right. But if they don’t, you believe they’re all going to hell, correct? If they don’t, if they die and they’re practicing homosexuals, you believe they’re going to hell, right?

BENNETT: Anyone...

O’REILLY: You’re dodging the question.

BENNETT: If you’re a sinner...

O’REILLY: You’re dodging the question.

BENNETT: Can I answer this -- can I answer this for you?

O’REILLY: Please answer the question.

BENNETT: If anyone does not accept Christ as their savior, you could have -- you could be a liar...

O’REILLY: And they’re all going to hell, anybody who doesn’t...

BENNETT: Can I read to you from your Catholic Bible?

O’REILLY: No, you can’t.

BENNETT: OK.

O’REILLY: We live in a secular society. You’re a religious fanatic, with all due respect.

BENNETT: I am far from a religious fanatic.

O’REILLY: You’re a religious fanatic. Now you have a right to be that, and I even respect you for being a very, let’s say, devout man in your own way. Once you cross into the secular realm and start denying people rights, then I...

BENNETT: I deny nobody rights.

O’REILLY: You don’t want gay adoption, correct?

BENNETT: Exactly.

O’REILLY: All right. Fine. Now I...

BENNETT: Do you know why?

O’REILLY: No. It’s religious based.

BENNETT: It...

O’REILLY: You think they’re sinners.

BENNETT: You’re the Catholic. You’re the Catholic, and you’re...

O’REILLY: I’m not God.

BENNETT: ... forgetting all of this.

O’REILLY: I’m not going to point at somebody and say they’re committing a sin. That’s not my job. I let the deity handle that. That’s not your job either.

Now I know a gay couple. Two men. They adopted a 10-year-old boy who was physically abused by drug-addicted heterosexual family. Nobody wanted this boy. Nobody. No adoption agency could place this boy. They took him. Very troubled kid. Wrong?

BENNETT: I believe that homosexuals should not adopt children.

O’REILLY: All right. So you would rather have this abused 10-year- old, who no one wanted...

BENNETT: There is no one else in the world, Bill, who would take that...

O’REILLY: No -- that’s right.

BENNETT: No one else in the world?

O’REILLY: The adoption agency could not place this boy. Six years they tried. Now this homosexual couple, responsible, not flamboyant, both earn a good living, are raising this abused child, and he’s a troubled child, OK. But you would rather see this kid in foster care, bounced around from home to home...

BENNETT: Bill...

O’REILLY: ... because you don’t like gays. That’s really -- you think God up there is saying that? Do you think God would say that?

BENNETT: Some of my best friends, Bill, are homosexuals.

O’REILLY: You’re against homosexual adoption, correct?

BENNETT: I am against the practice of homosexuality period...

O’REILLY: Fine. You’re...

BENNETT: ... because God...

O’REILLY: That’s your right to be.

BENNETT: You know what?

O’REILLY: That’s your right to be.

BENNETT: What Bill O’Reilly says means nothing. What -- Stephen Bennett means nothing. What God says means everything.

O’REILLY: You don’t speak for God, Mr. Bennett.

BENNETT: The Bible does!

O’REILLY: You don’t...

BENNETT: Your own Bible does.

O’REILLY: You interpret it your way, and everyone else will interpret...

BENNETT: How could you misinterpret "God delivered them up," "The woman exchanged natural intercourse"...

O’REILLY: All right. Nice to see you, Mr. Bennett.

[Yeahman]

Bill O'Reilly isn't exactly the most learned in Catholic theology. He's misrepresented it on numerous occasions. So much so that I really think he should hire a priest or someone to brief him before he decides to talk about it on the air. At least on matters of faith, he is pretty liberal.

But I don't see what's wrong with being Catholic and opposing discrimination against homosexuals. The Church teaches that it is wrong to discriminate against homosexuals.

"Some persons find themselves through no fault of their own to have a homosexual orientation. Homosexuals, like everyone else, should not suffer from prejudice against their basic human rights. They have a right to respect, friendship, and justice. They should have an active role in the Christian community." - From To Live in Jesus Christ

Beyond that though, views differ greatly. The ultra-conservatives will oppose any attempts at considering homosexuality anything but a disorder. They take the position that even those with disorders should not be discriminated against but at the same time they shouldn't be accepted as normal. This homophobia often leads them to support irrational positions against homosexuals.

The ultra-liberals are homosexuals themselves. They try to make use of what they see as a loophole. While the Church teaches that homosexual sex is wrong, the Church also teaches Catholics to follow their conscience. They take that to mean a license to do as you please. Of course, that's not what the Church teaches. A faithful Catholic's conscience will include Catholic teaching and so will never oppose it.

I was actually surprised to find that there are a lot of gay Catholics. They aren't leaving the Church even for other Christian denominations that accept homosexuality. In fact they've formed their own gay communities within the Church. They're faithful Catholics fully devoted to the Church who pray for change in Church teaching.


And also, while condemning homosexual sex as sinful, the Church never condemns people. A homosexual is no more damned to hell than the pope. All judgements are left up to God. And on that point O'Reilly is right on the mark.

[ahsingjai]

Bill O'Reilly said on "Real Time with Bill Maher" that he is going to hell.

[Faithless]

O'Reilly on the Pope, etc.

O'Reilly denied calling the pope "senile" -- but he did

In response to a caller on his radio show, Fox News host Bill O'Reilly falsely claimed that he "never said the pope was senile." In fact, in 2002, O'Reilly called Pope John Paul II "too senile to know" about the damage Cardinal Bernard Law, former archbishop of the Boston Archdiocese, had caused by allegedly covering up incidents of sexual abuse of children by priests in the archdiocese.

O'Reilly blamed the caller's "propaganda" first on the conservative Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, then on Media Matters for America. To date, Media Matters has documented only one person calling the pope "senile" -- discredited Unfit for Command author Jerome R. Corsi.

From the April 8 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:

[CALLER]: Thanks for takin' my call, Bill. Well, I think -- you know, you're doing a lot of really good work in terms of spirituality and protecting the young. But one of the things I had a question for you -- is about 12 to 18 months ago you were saying that the Pope was also autocratic and senile. And you didn't like him --

O'REILLY: And senile? Is that what you said?

[CALLER]: You did say that --

O'REILLY: No, I didn't.

[CALLER]: -- on some of your radio programs if you check the archives.

O'REILLY: Well, look, you're takin' the Catholic League -- you're taking their pronouncement, correct? Am I correct, [caller]?

[CALLER]: Now, I don't know anything about the Catholic League pronouncement.

O'REILLY: Whadda you takin' then, Media Matters?

[CALLER]: No, I'm not takin' that either.

O'REILLY: All right, well, you're takin' some kinda propaganda 'cause I never said the pope was senile. And you know, I criticized the pope when he shoulda been criticized, and that is for not being proactive enough in the pedophilia scandals here in the USA, and in failing to put off a cogent policy to fight terror. Now, I wrote a column -- this column's posted right now. And I have said that and been very consistent. I have not changed my mind. Now, you've got crazy left-wing nuts who distort what's said on this program every day.

And, they spit stuff out -- Catholic League picked it up. Attacked me this week. You know, the usual propaganda. So, you wanna buy into that, [caller], and live in that land, you go right ahead.

But anybody listening to me and watching The Factor knows I've been very consistent about the pope, and two areas I felt his pronouncements were wrong, and otherwise, I admired him as a very holy man who had a deep respect for life. And that's the truth of that matter.

From the December 12, 2002, edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, in a segment with Philip Moran, general counsel for the political advocacy group Catholic Alliance:

O'REILLY: Well, wait a minute. Hear me out. We all know, everybody knows -- even Law knows. Everybody but the pope, who's too senile to know, and I say that with all due respect. I don't think the pope is lucid, I don't think he knows what's going on, and I say that because Law's been in Rome for five days, has not seen the pope, has not even talked to the pope, and this is the worst scandal in a century --

MORAN: He's going to meet with him --

O'REILLY: -- in the Catholic Church, and the pontiff can't talk to you, and you're there for five days. There's something going wrong there. But, anyway, everyone knows, including Cardinal Law, that because of his actions as leader of the dioceses of Boston, children -- children -- hundreds of them -- were damaged for the rest of their life. Now everyone knows that. You can hide -- you can say the legalisms, tort, depositions, civil. Everybody knows that.

On Ratzinger.

The Wrath of God

Thursday, Apr 21, 2005
The elevation of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger to head the Roman Catholic Church is a clear and concise message from the College of Cardinals: "We are royally teed off."

Everybody knows that the new Pontiff is a tough guy who will not only throw the moneychangers out of the Temple, he'll kick them in the behind as they leave the building. Pope Benedict believes strongly in good and evil and he's not shy about pointing fingers. His letter to American bishops about politicians and abortion cost John Kerry dearly in the last election.

The Cardinals, of course, perfectly understand that Benedict is not exactly a cuddly guy, and will not be "reaching out," as they say in California. But his hard-line theological approach appeals to Church elders who have had enough.

In the past three decades, church attendance in the USA and Western Europe has dropped through the floor. Just 25% of American Catholics attend mass weekly and the number is in the single digits in long-standing Catholic countries like France. Secularism now rules the western world, and there are not enough priests to serve the remaining faithful. How do you say things are not good in Latin?

In the face of this spiritual decline, the Catholic Church has decided to make a stand. It will not compromise and it will not pander. You either toe the line or hit the bricks. Up to you.

As a life-long Catholic, I don't like this approach, but I understand it. The west is now besieged by forces that want to wipe spirituality completely out of the public square. The American Civil Liberties Union is the point organization in this effort. It supports all abortion-on-demand, including late term, no parental consent for minors having abortions, euthanasia with consent, gay marriage, and the free speech rights of the North American Man-Boy Love Association, which has posted instructions on how to rape children on its website.

The ACLU opposes public funding for the Boy Scouts because their oath mentions God, the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools, public displays of the baby Jesus at Christmas and any restraint on internet pornography in public libraries.

For the most part, the western media sympathizes with the ACLU and promotes its point-of-view. Thus, the secular message is a constant in our society, and the hits just keep on coming.

And where is the opposing point-of-view? Well, there are a few media outlets that give traditionalists a fair shake, but very few.

So the Catholic Cardinals feel isolated and surrounded. They can preach to the choir on Sunday but get battered by the news and entertainment media the rest of the week. A strong Papal voice countering that situation is soothing. And that's why Cardinal Ratzinger is now Pope Benedict XVI.

I believe organized religion can be a champion of human rights and provide resistance to secular societies which, if they progress much further, will never be able to defeat the fanatical Islamic fundamentalists. The more permissive the western world becomes, the more it rejects discipline and avoids confronting evil, the greater the danger to freedom will be.

Pope Benedict is facing a rapidly changing world and perhaps he will be a strong and persuasive shepherd against evil. The danger is that he will be so rigid that he will erode the spiritual core even further, thereby helping the secularists.

But the new Pope may have an epiphany and realize good people will rally against evil if the case of clear and present danger is made rationally and with compassion. I am praying that happens. The other side is hoping it will not.

[kuilong]

Andrew Sullivan's blog has been interesting reading since the Pope was elected. He wrote an article on his thoughts on B16, which is worth reading if only because he's a gay Catholic.

[Mo'Taka]

Originally Posted by ahsingjai

Bill O'Reilly said on "Real Time with Bill Maher" that he is going to hell.

i saw that show. he was obviously joking.

[Faithless]

O'Reilly talked to Bishop John Shelby Spong (one of the most knowledgable persons on the bible):

Challenging the 'Sins of Scripture'

Thursday, April 14, 2005

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," April 13, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

Watch "The O'Reilly Factor" weeknights at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET and listen to the "Radio Factor!"

BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "Personal Story" segment tonight, one of the most controversial clergymen in the country is Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong (search), an outspoken liberal theologian. His new book is going to make a lot of believers very angry.

Bishop Spong's book is called "The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible's Text of Hate to Reveal the God of Love." And he joins us now.

Boy, are you going to tee off some people. I gave the bishop a blurb for his book and I read the book. And it's a very, very thought-provoking book, but it's against all Christian orthodoxy, almost all of it.

And I want to get very specific. We just saw the pope and an amazing outpouring of affection for the pope. First of all, did you think he was a good man, the pope?

BISHOP JOHN SHELBY SPONG, AUTHOR, "THE SINS OF SCRIPTURE": Oh, yes.

O'REILLY: You respected him?

SPONG: Oh, yes.

O'REILLY: Because he was as conservative a Christian as you are a liberal.

SPONG: I respect you, but I don't always agree with your point of view.

O'REILLY: OK. But you respect him.

SPONG: I thought he made great contributions in Eastern Europe. I thought he was right on when he attacked the war in Iraq. I disagreed on him on the treatment by the church of the role of woman and homosexuals and some other issues, birth control (search).

O'REILLY: You thought he was a good man?

SPONG: Oh, yes. He was a positive force in this world.

O'REILLY: OK, good. Now one of the central themes of Pope John Paul II's (search) life was to pray. He was an extremely spiritual man, praying all the time for direct intervention by God. His tactic to deal with terrorism, Saddam and all of these other people, was to pray that good would overcome evil.

And he believed in his heart that the prayers that people said brought down the Soviet Union, rather than the hardware the USA put up to bankrupt the Soviet Union. He believed, the pope believed, in an interventionist God, a higher power that actually does things directly for good people. You don't believe in that.

SPONG: That's not exactly fair. I think you've got to be careful when you claim that you know how God acts, because every time God is said to intervene to say bring down the Soviet Union, that reflects your desires.

But why didn't God stop the tsunami? Why didn't God stop the AIDS epidemic (search) in Africa? Why did God not intervene to stop the Holocaust? It's just not easy enough to say that I pray and God will accomplish.

O'REILLY: Well, everybody says the Lord works in mysterious ways. And nobody knows...

SPONG: That's because they can't understand.

O'REILLY: I think any believer would say that. But in your book I got the impression that you don't pray to Lord and ask him for things, because you don't believe he operates that way.

SPONG: Bill, I pray probably two hours every day of my life. But to me it's to get in tune with the God presence in this world so that I can be a part of that God presence.

O'REILLY: Do you pray for anything specifically?

SPONG: Well, it depends. I've had a daughter in Iraq for the last seven months, and I pray daily for her safety.

O'REILLY: For her safety.

SPONG: Do I think that God will put down a shield and stop bullets that happen to be headed in her direction? No.

O'REILLY: Well, then why pray for her safety if you don't believe that the deity would keep her safe?

SPONG: Well, I do that because I have to do that. That's what love does for somebody, and I don't know that it doesn't work. I just don't want to count on it.

O'REILLY: OK. Because you don't want to count on it.

SPONG: I don't have to...

O'REILLY: Because most people watching me right now pray to a higher power in whatever religion they operate and even if you don't have a religion, you know, for certain things, world peace...

SPONG: I think that expresses your feelings.

O'REILLY: Is that a healthy thing to do?

SPONG: Well, yes, it's not unhealthy. I think one of the things we've got to look out for is human beings claiming that they know how God operates.

O'REILLY: I understand.

SPONG: To me that's like a horse claiming that they would know what a human being is doing...

O'REILLY: I do it every day on the radio when people call up and say I'm a bad Catholic and I'm going to hell. I already know I'm going to hell, but I'm trying to be a good guy.

SPONG: I have that sort of thing, too, but I tell them I'd really rather be in hell than in heaven with people like that sometimes.

O'REILLY: Whoa! Now I think there's a resurgence, a spiritual resurgence underway in this country. A lot of it has to do with the War on Terror, all right? Because we see how villainous these Islamo-fascists are, and I think people are turning inward and saying, you know, there's got to be a good.

There's a program on "Revelations" tonight, OK, which is going to scare the bejesus, pardon the pun, out of everybody because it's about the end of the world. And I think this is going to do very well, this program. And people are going to be engaged.

Is this healthy for people to believe Revelations, to believe these kinds of things?

SPONG: Religion is a mixed blessing. In the book I talk about how the Bible can be used to hurt homosexuals, to hurt women, to keep women from being educated, to keep the Magna Carta from being adopted, to oppose Galileo. We've done a lot of things like that: to justify the Inquisition and the crusades. That's the negative side.

The positive side is that religion, I believe, in its highest and purest form, calls us to respect the innate dignity of every human being and help them, and help them become all that they can be.

When I define God and it's not as a being upstairs. That's the God I grew up with. I don't want to say that God isn't so, but that's not how I experience God. I experience as the power of life. I experience God as the power of love. I experience God in the words of my favorite theologian, Paul Tillich (search), as the ground of being.

O'REILLY: But you're a believer, though?

SPONG: Yes, I am. What that means is if I worship God by living, by loving, and by being all that I can be, and I serve that God by helping to build a world where everybody else can love...

O'REILLY: Well, that's what you're just saying what Jesus taught.

SPONG: That's my opinion.

O'REILLY: That's the Jesus message to love God and then love your neighbor as yourself. A very simple lesson.

I agree with you that religion has been perverted for bad things. There's no question that it has been. And we're looking at it right now with, again, Islam. I mean, it's been used to butcher people.

SPONG: The only good thing about the Islamic terrorists, the only good thing is that it forced us in the west to recognize that we have also been terrorists toward the Jews, towards the Muslims during the crusades, toward...

O'REILLY: That's a long time ago.

SPONG: That's true, Bill, but it's still in the background. Don't think that the crusades...

O'REILLY: It didn't do anybody any good — it doesn't do anybody any good to go back 400 years and say, "My action today is justified for what you did 400 years."

SPONG: I'm not saying that it's justified. I am suggesting that it helps you understand the hostility, which I believe we've got to be willing to understand.

O'REILLY: Well, I'll understand them, but I'll also take a bullet and put it right through their brain. And I don't think Jesus is going to be mad at me for doing that.

SPONG: Well, he did say love your enemies.

O'REILLY: Also, I have to protect my family. All right? That is the greatest love. And if these people come into my purview, they're not going to come out. And I don't think I'm a bad Christian for doing that.

One more question for you. When I read the New Testament, I don't see any of the xenophobia that you're talking about, you know, the bad things against women, the gays. You know, Jesus never mentioned gays.

SPONG: I think Jesus was a revolutionary.

O'REILLY: Yes. I think if you really zero in on we Christians, what is actually said there, it's free of hate. There's hate.

SPONG: But that's not the history of the Christian Church.

O'REILLY: It doesn't matter. Men have perverted it, not the word.

SPONG: Yes and no. I grew up in North Carolina in a segregated world and the Bible was quoted to justify segregation. I grew up as a total sexist and a patriarchal fellow, and the Bible was quoted to me to justify that.

O'REILLY: Those were men doing that, not Jesus. Jesus wasn't a segregated guy.

SPONG: Well, I agree with that. But it was still the fact, and I grew up thinking homosexuals are either mentally sick or morally depraved. That's the nature.

O'REILLY: All right.

SPONG: I think we've got to banish those prejudices.

O'REILLY: Now it's the conservatives who are mentally sick and depraved. Things change.

"Sins of the Scripture" is Bishop Shelby's book — Bishop Spong's book. And we appreciate you coming in.

SPONG: It's a pleasure being with you.

[haplesshobo]

of course, there are a lot of homosexual catholics. if you were to get rid of all the homosexual priests, there wouldn't be enough priests to service the catholic community. its the dirty secret the church doesn't want people to know.