Korea Vs Japan

[Jung Rhee]

What do you all think about Japanese influence on Korean Culture? Was it good or bad? thank you

"Calling Japanese Rule a 'Blessing' Insults History

Academic Raises Hackles by Praising Japanese Occupation


Korea University Professor Emeritus Han Seung-jo has made waves with an article in a right-wing Japanese magazine asserting that Japan's colonization of Korea was a blessing in disguise. This is neither historically accurate nor responsible on the part of a senior intellectual.
Han says the only other alternative would have been for Korea to be annexed by Russia, which would have been worse. Korea would have become Bolshevist and suffered similar massacres to those that killed some 10 million people in the Soviet Union proper under Stalin, and Koreans would have been forcibly resettled in Central Asia. Being occupied by Japan spared Korea this fate and allowed it to preserve its identity and develop economically, Han reasons.

The assertion that Korea would have been annexed one way or the other is a sophism that Japanese right wingers have been peddling for a long time. From a senior scholar of political science with a career spanning nearly 40 years it is incomprehensible. Japan's 35-year colonization of Korea not only exploited the blood and sweat of the Korean people and stood in the way of any autogenous modernization, but it also sowed the seeds of national division.

Han ignores this, saying Japanese colonial rule was "fortune amid misfortune." This is an insult to our patriotic forefathers who sacrificed their lives for the nation's independence, and to the tens and millions of ordinary people who silently put up with the occupation while clinging to the dream of independence.

As co-chairman of the civic group Free Citizens Alliance of Korea, Han was among the proponents of a "Declaration for the Protection of Liberty and Democracy" last year. He also led a campaign opposing the "four evil laws" - including a bill launching an inquiry into Korean collaboration with the Japanese occupation.

Han said he wrote the article "to criticize the people's court-style history discourse, attempting based on leftist ideology to denounce pro-Japanese acts as unequivocally unpatriotic." But righting the mistaken historical perception of the left wing is one thing, and calling Japan's colonial rule of Korea a blessing is quite another. If Han was serious about the intent behind his article, he should have instead endeavored to expose the logic of the opponent and broaden public sympathy based on a deeper historical understanding. "

[golden_buns]

Though I wouldn't go to the extreme of saying that the Japanese ruling was a "blessing in disguise" I'd say that it did help to modernize the Korean infrastructure.

At that time, it seems any other power could have taken over Korea easily since in terms of weapons and technology we were almost a century behind and the country had been under famine and internal turmoil for a while, so I guess something like that was bound to happen. And who knows if that could have been better or worse.

But that's the past, and I don't think we'll be making much progress if we keep looking back and not focusing on our way to the future. Right now, it seems to me that it's more important to improve relations with China and Japan to ensure nothing like this happens again

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Ah, so they don't actually refute his points, they just repeatedly emphasize how unpatriotic he is. Hey, if it works for the US ...

[SunWuKong]

i am not very educated about the USSR, did the Soviets try to eliminate the cultures and languages of the people whose countries it annexed?

and are we for certain that if it was not Japan, Russia would have taken over Korea?

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

i am not very educated about the USSR, did the Soviets try to eliminate the cultures and languages of the people whose countries it annexed?

and are we for certain that if it was not Japan, Russia would have taken over Korea?

Having met several people from central Asian nations that used to be Soviet satellites, I believe that while the best universities were taught in Russian and all schools taught Russian as a second language, people used their native language in their daily life.

And since Japan took over Korea from China after the Sino-Japanese war, it's probably accurate to say that if not for Japan, Russia would've done the same thing.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by YuheiCarreau

Having met several people from central Asian nations that used to be Soviet satellites, I believe that while the best universities were taught in Russian and all schools taught Russian as a second language, people used their native language in their daily life.

was the Japanese language encouraged to be used in everyday life while Korea was under Japanese control? i think i've read that the Korean language was not prohibitted per se, but people had to get Japanese names, etc etc.

Originally Posted by YuheiCarreau

And since Japan took over Korea from China after the Sino-Japanese war, it's probably accurate to say that if not for Japan, Russia would've done the same thing.

well i know that Russia was signing a lot of unfair treaties with China. maybe that's what would have happened if Japan had not taken over Korea.

and technically, China did not administer direct control over Korea. at the time, Korea was a protectorate state of China. as far as i know, the Korean court had full control of domestic issues. i'm not sure how much control it asserted over foreign and international affairs though.

it's a lot of assumptions and speculations to claim that Korea was better off under Japanese control than Russian control. for one thing, if it was under Russian control, after WW2, Korea would have went back under Soviet control, there wouldn't have been a Korean War and there wouldn't be a North Korea under Kim Il Sung and then Kim Jong Il.

[golden_buns]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

was the Japanese language encouraged to be used in everyday life while Korea was under Japanese control? i think i've read that the Korean language was not prohibitted per se, but people had to get Japanese names, etc etc.

My grandparents tell me that it was the "official" language, but they would go around speaking in Korean unless they were in front of a Japanese officer. Though, punishments were harsh for teaching Korean so it was done secretely

[mrcfo]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

was the Japanese language encouraged to be used in everyday life while Korea was under Japanese control? i think i've read that the Korean language was not prohibitted per se, but people had to get Japanese names, etc etc.



well i know that Russia was signing a lot of unfair treaties with China. maybe that's what would have happened if Japan had not taken over Korea.

and technically, China did not administer direct control over Korea. at the time, Korea was a protectorate state of China. as far as i know, the Korean court had full control of domestic issues. i'm not sure how much control it asserted over foreign and international affairs though.

it's a lot of assumptions and speculations to claim that Korea was better off under Japanese control than Russian control. for one thing, if it was under Russian control, after WW2, Korea would have went back under Soviet control, there wouldn't have been a Korean War and there wouldn't be a North Korea under Kim Il Sung and then Kim Jong Il.

Japan forced Japanese down nearly every of it's colonies. They pretty much wanted to create versions of Japan on Korea, Manchuria and Taiwan. I've read in books (biographies) and such that:

- Japanese language was taught, if you didn't use Japanese in public, you were given harsh penalities.

- Japanese customs such as a full bow was compulsory when seeing Japanese and officiers.

- Japanese names were to be used (I don't know if it was in Taiwan though).

- Women were forced to wear Kimonos.

Ironically, having said all this, do you guys realise the most developed and wealthiest "nations' in Asia all came off British and Japanese colonial rule???

Japan
Korea
Taiwan
Hong Kong
Singapore
Macau

Does it ring a bell?

[golden_buns]

well, maybe cuz they left an infrastructure built up and ready to use

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Doesn't matter. The ends don't justify the means as far as I'm concerned. Is Iraq supposed to credit the US for every single accomplishment it achieves decades down the line if it sticks with a democratic form of government because we launched pre-emptive strikes based on a pack of bullshit lies, and forced our way in there to aid the evil savages in their own regime change and nation-state building process for the sake of oil?

[yuuteya]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Doesn't matter. The ends don't justify the means as far as I'm concerned. Is Iraq supposed to credit the US for every single accomplishment it achieves decades down the line if it sticks with a democratic form of government because we launched pre-emptive strikes based on a pack of bullshit lies, and forced our way in there to aid the evil savages in their own regime change and nation-state building process for the sake of oil?

bingo!

is might, and the killing it always involves, ever right?

i dont think i have a thick enough skin to ever delude myself into saying 'yes'

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally Posted by golden_buns

well, maybe cuz they left an infrastructure built up and ready to use

Personally, I'm not sure I buy the infrastructure argument. Most of the Japanese overseas manufacturing infrastructure (railroads, ports, mining) was in Manchuria (now known as the Rust Belt of China, one of the poorest urbanized areas) and the northern half of Korea. And the infrastructure buildup in Manchuria started way before the period of formal colonization ... as far back as the aftermath of the Russo-Japanese war.

Anyway, Japanese infrastructure spending in Manchuria and North Korea exceeded that in South Korea and Taiwan. Thus, for a long time after WWII, North Korea was actually economically ahead of South Korea, contributing to fears that the Communist system really was better for growth. It was to the extent that in the 1950s, when a lot of Koreans in Japan took part in repatriation activities, 90% of them voluntarily chose to go to North Korea rather than South Korea (regardless that their ancestral origin was probably in the South).

But, 50 years later, it looks like the area of the Japanese empire that had mainly been used for agricultural production ended up better off than the areas that got a head start at industrialization. Of course, with a sample size of 4, it's not nearly a conclusive correlation, but it does kinda make ya think ...

Originally Posted by mrcfo

- Japanese names were to be used (I don't know if it was in Taiwan though).

The Japanese name policy was only implemented in 1939, at the height of wartime militarism; i.e. it wasn't a policy for most of the colonial era. It was supposed to be across the empire, but in Taiwan, you had to apply for permission to change your name to a Chinese name, so only about 2% of the population did. In contrast, in Korea, they had the "Create a surname, change your name" campaign. On the ground, implemented by local colonial officials, this basically turned into forcing Koreans to use Japanese names, but there was some more complex legal theory behind it (trying to align Japanese and local family laws, which had previously run into legal confusion because of the difference between Japanese and Korean family register practices), and, in theory, a Korean could simply register the Japanese reading of his Korean name as his new name. Also, the response wasn't entirely compulsory; only 80% of the population registered, and apparently, the other 20% who didn't file registration had the Japanese reading of their Korean names grandfathered in or something.

[shakuhachi]

그 교수는 정말로 있던 것 밖에 말하고 있지 않아요. 현대의 한국인은 당시의 조선의 상태에 대해서 지식 부족으로 지상의 낙원이라고 믿어 버리고 있어요. 실은 그 때의 조선은 세계 최저의 수명(24세)이라고 세계에 알려져 있었어요.
일본은 한국에 막대한 금액을 투자했으니까 1945년에 한국인의 수명은 49세가 되었어요.
이것은 민중에 정말로 축복이라고 생각해요.

This Professor is being punished for speaking the truth. If he is in error, then lets see the facts!

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by mrcfo

Japan forced Japanese down nearly every of it's colonies. They pretty much wanted to create versions of Japan on Korea, Manchuria and Taiwan. I've read in books (biographies) and such that:

- Japanese language was taught, if you didn't use Japanese in public, you were given harsh penalities.

- Japanese customs such as a full bow was compulsory when seeing Japanese and officiers.

- Japanese names were to be used (I don't know if it was in Taiwan though).

- Women were forced to wear Kimonos.

i've read that it was much more relaxed in Taiwan, and that people in Taiwan were basically allowed to keep their culture and language.

Originally Posted by mrcfo

Ironically, having said all this, do you guys realise the most developed and wealthiest "nations' in Asia all came off British and Japanese colonial rule???

Japan
Korea
Taiwan
Hong Kong
Singapore
Macau

Does it ring a bell?

Macau was colonised by the Portuguese. but these places you listed are developed and wealthy not so much because they were colonised, but because they have strong ties to the UK and the US.

a good example is India and the Philippines. one was colonised by the UK and the other was colonised by the US. neither are very wealthy or developed. well, India is quickly getting there at the moment.

Originally Posted by shakuhachi

This Professor is being punished for speaking the truth. If he is in error, then lets see the facts!

i'm not ruling out the possibility that he may be right. but facts? please. the professor himself was speculating and assuming in the first place. these types of claims are just a bunch of what-ifs and would-haves.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally Posted by AliBabaIncorporated

It was supposed to be across the empire, but in Taiwan, you had to apply for permission to change your name to a Chinese name, so only about 2% of the population did.

Correction: should be
It was supposed to be across the empire, but in Taiwan, you had to apply for permission to change your name to a Japanese name, so only about 2% of the population did.