An (Extremely Respectful) Discussion on Rising Sun and the APIA community

[deez nuts]

Originally Posted by Tao

i forgot the choking part...dude i was like 10 years old or something back then. all i remeber was seeing boobs..and then my mom covered my eyes

and let's not forget how the japanese businessmen kept all their white women together in some sort of brothel like thingy. pimp.

it was a very inspirational movie for me cuz it showed me that if you're rich and powerful, hot white chicks would come to you even if you're short and have a small penis.

[Tao]

Originally Posted by Chasiubao_Boy

and let's not forget how the japanese businessmen kept all their white women together in some sort of brothel like thingy. pimp.

it was a very inspirational movie for me cuz it showed me that if you're rich and powerful, hot white chicks would come to you even if you're short and have a small penis.

GERBIL POWAH

[yoMAMA]

Originally Posted by Chasiubao_Boy

and let's not forget how the japanese businessmen kept all their white women together in some sort of brothel like thingy. pimp.

it was a very inspirational movie for me cuz it showed me that if you're rich and powerful, hot white chicks would come to you even if you're short and have a small penis.

haha.....

[kimpossible]

Originally Posted by Tao

especially the part where he ate sushi off the body of that white chick...that was when i first realized wanted to be part of the apia community.

i believe there was also something about sake-soaked nipples.

[Chester]

Originally Posted by kimpossible

i believe there was also something about sake-soaked nipples.

He had the hot redhead dip her nipple into his sake cup and then drank it. Even though I don't actually know how nipple-flavored sake would taste, I think that scene was so totally sweet. I got so amped that I almost flipped out and kicked the wall FOR NO REASON.

[yoMAMA]

Originally Posted by kimpossible

i believe there was also something about sake-soaked nipples.

that's right.

[BigLew]

Originally Posted by Chester

He had the hot redhead dip her nipple into his sake cup and then drank it. Even though I don't actually know how nipple-flavored sake would taste, I think that scene was so totally sweet. I got so amped that I almost flipped out and kicked the wall FOR NO REASON.

Dude I got so excited I started wailing on my guitar so hard I made the TV blow up!

[Chester]

Originally Posted by BigLew

Dude I got so excited I started wailing on my guitar so hard I made the TV blow up!

Dude, it's a good thing you didn't have your katana nearby, otherwise you might've gotten so excited you would've cut your dog in half.

[Shuriken]

To Ninjah55, one word: indentation.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

After all, that is the nature of the beast; to portray someone you're not.

I'll believe that when I start seeing some recognizably Asian American actors playing white lead roles in Hollywood. This "being someone you're not" argument is usually used to justify yellowface and typecasting.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

What if he feels the film was not necessarily a good film as film go, the point bout the box office was bout saying that controversy made a so-so film make more than its due because of fear mongering.... directly playing on the fear that AAs could physically be attacked because of the film.

I think that the fears were justified. Again, if the Japanese characters had been Jewish instead, I think that worries about potential violence would have been taken much more seriously. Apparently, Asians are still fair game for race-based scapegoating.

And given all the money, publicity, and prestige that Fox lavished on Rising Sun, there was no way that the film was not going to open #1 at the box office (rival studios cleared their schedules for the film's opening weekend). To credit/blame the protests for the movie's entire success is unpersuasive.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

How an AA actor "accomodates himself" in Hollywood presupposes that there are so many choices out there to accomdate oneself.

I disagree. My only presupposition is that an Asian American actor has the choice to turn down a negative role. By playing one problematic role after another, the actor has "accommodated" himself, in my view.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

The choice to play bad guys followed some of Hollywood's biggest stars: John Wayne, Kirk Douglas and so on thr Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt (the rapist in Thelma and Louise)...

This was accompanied by the opportunities to move up in the industry or play good-guy roles as well. If playing Asian antagonists enabled more Asian American actors to advance to playing lead roles (the way that John Lone moved from Year of the Dragon to The Last Emperor — only to hit a brick wall), I'd be less cynical about them. But they just seem to be a dead-end street. Also, by contrast, the villains played by Kirk Douglas, etc., weren't as racially marked as Asian bad guys are.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

I had to ask the question that if I didn't play the bad guy would Hollywood not make the movie? Obviously not so I hoped that someday my career would follow Takei's or Ito's career.

I understand your argument. But the flip side is that Asian American participation in these problematic Asian roles may be seen to validate non-Asian creators' and viewers' negative perceptions of Asian people.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

Did Sessue Hayakawa's Sat. morning " villan" movies hurt the community? They protested his roles and even physically accosted him on his property. Yet he was the first Asian to be nominated for the Academy Award for "Bridge Over the River Kwai". He probably had the same dream of going from bad guy to good guy...same as John Wayne and Cruise...

But Hayakawa used his villainous turn in Cecil B. DeMille's The Cheat to become Hollywood's first Asian male star, playing more positive roles. I think you may have your facts confused.

On the subject of Oscars, you're talking only about male actors, right? James Wong Howe won an Oscar for Best Black & White Cinematography for The Rose Tattoo two years before. And the same year that Hayakawa was nominated, Miyoshi Umeki was nominated for — and won — Best Supporting Actress for Sayonara.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

I wasn't comparing "Rising Sun" to blaxploitation in terms of structure. Only to say that those films were the beginning of more exposure for Black actors that eventually led to Denzel, Morgan and in a much lesser Wes Snipes.

My mistake. But I don't see an Asian American equivalent to blaxploitation coming out of Hollywood.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

I've found an audience in men of color who identify with frustration of being emasculated by Hollywood and cheer me on when I 'm beating up the good guys cause as we know, they are not really the good guys and most of the world agrees. Bad guy roles have been the only way to show our virility and not the wimpiness of businessmen.

I understand this point — it's analogous to the way that some feminist critics point to evil femme fatale antagonists in 1940s film noir as agreeable figures of resistance against the male-dominated world — but I strongly disagree with it. As I said in a previous post, vilifying Asian virlity is just as problematic as Asian emasculation. If villainy is the only (or even the primary) way for Hollywood to acknowledge Asian virility, then Asian manhood is still perceived as a negative. Yes, the character of Eddie Sakamura in Rising Sun, for example, is a very glamorous and sexy individual. But if he only uses his glamor and sexiness to sacrifice his life for the non-Asian heroes, what's the point? I don't subscribe to the proposition that any depiction of Asian masculinity is better than none. Hollywood needs to do more to recognize Asian virility as something positive.

For the record, I'm not totally against Asian antagonists per se, theoretically at least. But when they're the racially marked villain to a white hero, Asian bad guys seem to promote white supremacism.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

But no one has made significant change from outside.

Again, I disagree. Change has to come from both the inside and the outside. Just as resistance to the internment required both the 442nd and the No-No Boys, change in Hollywood will come, I think, from a combination of forces both inside the boardroom and outside the studio gates. You do what you think you need to do to influence the former, but I reserve the right to contribute to the latter.

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

Jason Scott Lee probably holds the record but no one else has 7 figures except Asian stars.

Again, you're only talking about men, right? I understand that Lucy Liu was paid eight figures to appear in the Charlie's Angels sequel.

[kpih]

The content of the movie and implications is one thing. The more distrubing issue to me is the arrogance and audacity of the studio displayed during the negotiation process with the MANAA.

According to Timothy Fong, author of The Contemporary Asian American Experience, the MANAA requested for a disclaimer in the beginning of the movie, the studio staunchly refused the request. The negotiation broke down.

Later changes were made to the plot. A less aggressive portrayal of the characters and a different ended was added to the film. Chriton and the screen writer allegeedly walked off the set.

[Arex]

Originally Posted by Shuriken

My only presupposition is that an Asian American actor has the choice to turn down a negative role.

Isn't that a pretty huge presupposition? If an Asian American actor turns down every acting role ever offered to him because the only roles available were "negative" roles, and, as a result, that Asian American never has an opportunity to act, doesn't that Asian American actor cease to be an "actor?"

I've been torn on this issue for some time. I agree that some of these movies are problematic, and, in an ideal world, an Asian Am. actor should be able to simply turn down a negative role to avoid perpetuating stereotypes and to advance the AA movement. And I agree that, in a sense, any AA actor that takes such a role is, essentially "selling out." But what if those are the only roles available? Then what choice do these actors have but to sell out?

If an AA actor "boycotts" a negative stereotypical role offered to him today, is there any assurance that that same actor will someday be cast in non-negative, non-stereotypical role tomorrow? Given how many roles seem to be made available to male Asian Am. actors, I'd say the chances of landing a non-negative role are pretty slim. So the choice presented to many (at least in the past) is: take the negative role or give up on your aspirations to be a big Hollywood actor 'cause you probably won't be offered another role. That's not much of a choice.

I understand male Asian Am. actors have been cast in non-negative, non-stereotypical roles with greater frequency as of late. But isn't that more a function of relatively recent changes in the studios and filmmakers than anything else? It seems that actors, being easily replaceable, have much less say in the subject matter and characters of the Hollywood films being produced. As being someone who's sort of broken through, it's easy for someone like John Cho to now turn down shitty, racist roles. But John Cho was lucky. For each John Cho, I imagine there are hundreds of aspiring male Asian Am. actors who don't have that luxury. Seems to me that it's easy to advocate for actors boycotting negative, stereotypical portrayals of Asians, and it's easy to dismiss someone as a "sellout" when you aren't the one most directly affected by the role (i.e., when you aren't the one having to turn down a role which may very well be your only opportunity to practice your art).

[deez nuts]

Originally Posted by Arex

Isn't that a pretty huge presupposition? If an Asian American actor turns down every acting role ever offered to him because the only roles available were "negative" roles, and, as a result, that Asian American never has an opportunity to act, doesn't that Asian American actor cease to be an "actor?"

i agree.

i mean who am i to judge him? afterwhile, the guy's gotta break into the business in some shape or form and the guy's gotta eat.

[hooligan]

Originally Posted by BigLew

Dude I got so excited I started wailing on my guitar so hard I made the TV blow up!

Totally forgot the part where you headbutted your dog and got so amped that you screamed until you passed out.

No, to answer the question.

[Chester]

Originally Posted by Chasiubao_Boy

i mean who am i to judge him? afterwhile, the guy's gotta break into the business in some shape or form and the guy's gotta eat.

Plus: he got to lick sake off a hot chick's nipple, and I don't see how one could view that as wrong.

[deez nuts]

Originally Posted by ninjah 55

Hey Kitty.... I am Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa only having just come on to this world of posting that I'm finding it probably critical that you verify who I am. I don't know... you could call SAG to verify my agency which is Abrahms Artist Agency and they could give you my phone # so we could talk... I'd love to do an interview with you, preferably live or recorded.... I don't type as fast as I can talk....

can i have your autograph? you were great in mortal kombat.