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Elections in Iraq
Sounds like, come hell-or-high-water, the elections will happen. Even with the threat of insurgent blood bath?
Anyway, interesting article from the International Herald Tribune (which is a great news resource with one of the hardest web pages to copy from). It's funny that we have our wants/not wants out of the Iraqi government. One of those not wants -- a theocratic state. The irony is that one could argue that is what we currently have within our house/senate/white houlse. sign of hope in Iraq QUOTE:
What will the elections mean for Iraq’s future? QUOTE:
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Holy Orders Last edited by Faithless; 01-25-2005 at 01:58 PM. |
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#2
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Re: Elections in Iraq
What gets me is this comment --
I have lived all my life for this moment, to see Iraqi free," said Kenaya, his cheeks flushing with excitement. "We have freedom in our teeth and we're not letting it go." And the thing that bugs me is whether there's an expectation that they're going to have an open government life we have here. I believe Iraq's government will end up no better than Iran's. Theocratic. Is a theocratic style of government better than no government at all? Not if there's no hope of changing it. Iraqi Expats Unlikely to Sway Election QUOTE:
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Holy Orders |
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#3
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Re: Elections in Iraq
It's a win-win situation for Bush. We came, we had elections, see ya! If it doesn't work out too well, it's due to the "democracy-hating terrorists." Ever since the elections started looking bleak, the Bush machine has been spinning any failure that way (notice the Inauguration Address: "Liberty will come to those who love it.").
Good thing the Iraqi Constitution gives more rights to its citizens that the U.S. Constitution does (explicit Right to Privacy, Education, and Health Care): http://www.command-post.org/2_archives/010794.html And Iraq will be a theocratic state no matter what: QUOTE:
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#4
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Re: Elections in Iraq
Ah, let the spinning begin!
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The difference with Iran is that most Iranians wanted change. They wanted less theocracy and are being prevented. If the laws of Iraq turn out to be theocratic, let it be. So long as a totalitarian government isn't established, the tide of public opinion can always change it later. Why do you want to impose American secularism on the Iraqis? Damn you American imperialists! |
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#5
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Re: Elections in Iraq
QUOTE:
Gosh, the elections are this Sunday? In one sense there is the bitching about this war and all the things that have gone on with it, but then there is the reality of what lies ahead. And it appears the elections will go in some form. Still will be damned to give Bush any props for the forthcoming election, since our Iraq policy seems to have "backed into" it. But there is this curiosity of what all the elections will really mean. Will there really be a true democracy? Or just a ruling theocracy? Can an elected government withstand continuing insurgency? It looks like we'll still be there after the elections too -- when in the hell will we be able to withdraw? What would make Iraq election a success? Big turnout QUOTE:
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Holy Orders |
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Re: Elections in Iraq
John Kerry the Grinch Who Doesn’t Like Iraq Election Results
By Sher Zieve MichNews.com Jan 30, 2005 Failed presidential candidate and the current junior leftist-Senator from Massachusetts said of the Iraqi elections, Sunday on Meet the Press: “No one in the United States should try to over-hype this election.” This was another “sore loser” and typical leftist Democrat attempt to disparage anything and everything that doesn’t, specifically, help them regain their power and prestige. It was, also, another confirmation that the Dems care about nothing and no one save themselves… and, of course, France. Then, in typical flip-flop Kerry fashion, he said: “I think this election is important. I was for the election taking place.” And, after completing his hour-long interview on Meet the Press, Kerry was caught by a reporter and reversed himself, yet again, when he said: “The [Iraq] elections don’t mean that much.” This already-announced-presidential-candidate for 2008, hasn’t changed a whit since his unsuccessful 2004 run for the presidency. It has become clear that he can’t help himself. Foot-in-mouth disease is common amongst these folks. These comments to, at best, trivialize anything that speaks of freedom and liberty have now become commonplace for the leftist Dems. Teddy Kennedy proved that, last week, when he called for an “immediate pullout of our troops from Iraq”; before their elections! These leftists have not only lost their communal mind but, any last chance of resurrecting any small semblance of their integrity. However, those of us who believe in liberty should take heart. The US leftist-Dems have finally and unequivocally shown us, the American public, their true intentions and beliefs; to unrelentingly discount and crack down on individual freedoms. To them, these freedoms are unimportant for “the masses”. I trust we will remember that in both 2006 and 2008. Copyright by Sher Zieve Sher Zieve is a Conservative political commentator who firmly believes that if Leftists ran the country (left to their own devices), it would be the end of the United States as a sovereign nation. Ms. Zieve welcomes your comments and can be reached at
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Holy Orders |
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Re: Elections in Iraq
I agree with Ism, it's going to be a win-win situation. If the Iraq elections didn't go so well, it's still a strong case for war. If they went well, Bush's plan is successful. There's no way that he can lose, especially with the way they've been spinning the war.
I've also been wondering how much Iraqi expats living across the world are fairing? I mean, I think the turnout from them will be abnormally high because of the US sponsored voting places near their communities.
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#8
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Re: Elections in Iraq
Well, their voter turnout was pretty much the same as ours...meaning paltry.
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Soccer's just a sport for guys that can't throw.-Nikki Cox --- “No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.” - Kate Beckinsale |
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#9
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Re: Elections in Iraq
Okay, so the election went off fairly well, about 44 dead at polling places, much lower than I expected. I don't think it could have gone any better.
Now the uncertainty of what happens between the Shiite majority and Sunni minority is the last roadblock for Bush. With the elections done, and a "freely elected government" in place, any insurgency will be more firmly framed as against the Iraqi government itself, rather than the U.S. occupation. The scariest thing is how much influence the other Muslim nations will introduce into Iraq, especially the Sunni ones. A full-fledged civil war might actually be the best scenario, assuming it finishes and doesn't devolve back into guerrilla warfare. With U.S. officials saying we'll be out in 18 months, it seems like they've looked at several scenarios and concluded we can let Iraq go soon. |
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#10
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Re: Elections in Iraq
Alright so close to 50 during the election process.
Add that to the 10's of thousands of civilians, etc. killed up to the election. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ High price paid for Iraq election QUOTE:
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Holy Orders Last edited by Faithless; 01-30-2005 at 08:55 PM. |
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#11
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Re: Elections in Iraq
As far as the Shia and Sunni's are concerned --
I think I read somewhere that early "exit polls" (take them for what they're worth at this stage) show a large Shia representation and a small Sunni representation (although their support supposedly turned-out in a larger number then expected.) I understand that the Whitehouse does not really care for a Shia dominated government. And even though it does not appear that this faction is not as extreme as it can be, only time will tell. The election is only one thing happening in Iraq. There is still massive reconstruction and the reality of dealing with the ill-will that will develop over the Iraqi civilians that were killed along the way.
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Holy Orders Last edited by Faithless; 01-31-2005 at 10:04 AM. |
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#12
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Re: Elections in Iraq
QUOTE:
The elections were another major step forward for the US. We all know that it's not perfect but it's movement in the right direction. We just have to keep chipping away at it. I tell you, global domination isn't this difficult in the game RISK ![]()
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Bhodi's Blog |
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#13
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Re: Elections in Iraq
QUOTE:
QUOTE:
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Holy Orders |
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#14
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Re: Elections in Iraq
Iraqi election results delayed on recount
03:39 PM CST on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 By ROBERT H. REID Associated Press BAGHDAD, Iraq — Iraqi officials said Wednesday they must recount votes from about 300 ballot boxes because of various discrepancies, delaying final results from the landmark national elections. Hundreds - perhaps thousands - of other ballots were declared invalid because of alleged tampering. Khalid Mohammed / AP Photo A photographer takes pictures of improperly processed ballots and ballot boxes on display by the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq at a Wednesday press conference in Baghdad, Iraq. Postelection violence mounted, raising fears that the Jan. 30 balloting had done little to ease the country's grave security crisis. An American soldier was killed Wednesday and another wounded in an ambush north of the capital, the U.S. military said. Two other American soldiers died earlier in the week, the command said Wednesday. Gunmen ambushed a convoy of Kurdish party officials in Baghdad, killing one and wounding four. And in the southern city of Basra, gunmen killed an Iraqi journalist working for a U.S.-funded TV station and his 3-year-old son as they left their home. Officials had promised final results from the elections by Thursday, the end of the Iraqi work week. On Wednesday, however, election commission spokesman Farid Ayar said the deadline would not be met because of the recount. "We don't know when this will finish," he said. "This will lead to a little postponement in announcing the results." No partial tallies have been released since Monday in the contests for the 275-member National Assembly, 18 provincial councils and a regional parliament for the Kurdish self-governing region in the north. The most recent figures showed a coalition of Kurdish parties in second place behind a Shiite-dominated ticket endorsed by Iraq's most revered Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. The ticket of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite, was a distant third. Allegations of voting irregularities, especially around the tense northern city of Mosul, have complicated the count. Some leading Sunni Arab and Christian politicians alleged that thousands of their supporters were denied the right to vote. Election officials blamed the problems in the Mosul area on security, which prevented fewer than a third of the planned 330 polling centers from opening. Gunmen seized some ballot boxes, officials said. The commission would not say how many ballots had been declared invalid and whether they had come from the Mosul area, which has a mostly Sunni Arab population. Many Sunnis are believed to have stayed home on election day, either because they feared insurgent reprisals or opposed a ballot as long as U.S. and other foreign troops were on Iraqi soil. Commission official Adel al-Lami said the ballots in 40 boxes and 250 bags would not be counted because they appeared to have been stuffed inside them or, in some cases, improperly folded. Some of the boxes were not those approved by the commission, and others were improperly sealed, he said. Before the election, commission officials estimated each box should contain about 500 ballots. It was unclear whether the bags contained roughly the same number of ballots. Meanwhile, a Western legal expert said investigative judges were nearly ready to hand over lengthy dossiers of affidavits, witness statements and other documents to a five-judge panel that would run the trials for former members of Saddam Hussein's regime. The expert, who spoke on condition of anonymity, would not say which of Saddam's 11 lieutenants were likely to face the Iraqi Special Tribunal first, and it was unclear when the dictator himself would stand trial. Formal charges will not come until the investigating judges refer the cases to the trial chamber. The first dossiers were expected to be delivered to trial judges in several weeks, the legal expert said. In December, investigative judges summoned Saddam's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid, better known as Chemical Ali for his role in poison gas attacks on Kurds, and former Defense Minister Gen. Sultan Hashim Ahmad to appear at closed-door preliminary hearings. The American soldier was killed Wednesday in an ambush near Balad, a major U.S. base about 50 miles north of Baghdad. Another U.S. soldier died Tuesday of a gunshot wound at the Balad base. A third was killed Sunday while on patrol in Mosul. More than 1,450 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003. Police said they had no leads in the slaying of Abdul Hussein Khazal al-Basri, the correspondent for Al-Hurra TV station, and his young son. Al-Basri was also an official of the Islamic Dawa party, editor of a newspaper in Basra and head of the press office of the Basra City Council. It was unclear if his affiliation with Al-Hurra was the motive for the slaying. The station, launched a year ago, was tailored for Arab audiences to compete with regional stations like Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya. President Bush said it was created to "cut through the hateful propaganda" broadcast in the Arab world. In Rome, the newspaper that employs an Italian journalist held hostage in Iraq said Wednesday it has indications she is alive and that intelligence officials have established indirect contact with her kidnappers. Giuliana Sgrena, a reporter for communist daily Il Manifesto, was abducted by gunmen Friday outside Baghdad University. Conflicting claims have appeared on Islamic militant Web sites: One said she had been killed, while another said she would be released soon. Il Manifesto said an unspecified contact person saw Sgrena on Monday and Tuesday, reporting that she was well. The paper said the person could be used as a mediator in future communications with Sgrena's kidnappers. The contact is the result of work by Italy's government and intelligence services, the newspaper said.
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Holy Orders |
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#15
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Re: Elections in Iraq
Interesting article about one of Iraq's nominated Prime Minister's -- Ibrahim Jafari -- a conservative who refuses to shake women's hands.
He is a member of the Dawa Party -- a group with ties to Iran that has been linked to bombings in bombings of US and French embassies in Kuwait. Islamist Is Nominated as Iraqi Premier QUOTE:
The history of the Dawa party QUOTE:
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Holy Orders |
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