U.S. says it can use evidence gained by torture

[VV o n g B a]

we're on a slippery slope. how meaningful is a conviction based on torture admissions? i know the guys' we've released have just gone back to being terrorists, so most of the ppl at guantanamo are there for a good reason. but if this is okay, then what are we doing in iraq?

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U.S. says it can use evidence gained by torture

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Michael Sniffen

Dec. 3, 2004 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- Evidence gained by torture can be used by the U.S. military in deciding whether to imprison a foreigner indefinitely at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as an enemy combatant, the government concedes.

Statements produced under torture have been inadmissible in U.S. courts for about 70 years. But the U.S. military panels reviewing the detention of 550 foreigners as enemy combatants at the U.S. naval base in Cuba are allowed to use such evidence, Principal Deputy Associate Attorney General Brian Boyle acknowledged at a U.S. District Court hearing Thursday.

Some of the prisoners have filed lawsuits challenging their detention without charges for up to three years so far. At the hearing, Boyle urged District Judge Richard J. Leon to throw their cases out.

Attorneys for the prisoners argued that some were held solely on evidence gained by torture, which they said violated fundamental fairness and U.S. due process standards. But Boyle argued in a similar hearing Wednesday that the detainees "have no constitutional rights enforceable in this court.''

Leon asked whether a detention based solely on evidence gathered by torture would be illegal, because "torture is illegal. We all know that.''

Boyle replied that if the military's combatant status review tribunals "determine that evidence of questionable provenance were reliable, nothing in the due process clause (of the Constitution) prohibits them from relying on it.''

Leon asked whether there were any restrictions on using torture-induced evidence.

Boyle replied that the United States never would adopt a policy that would have barred it from acting on evidence that could have prevented the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks even if the data came from questionable practices like torture by a foreign power.

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[hooligan]

Dood, where are my civil liberties?

[deez nuts]

we should at the very least use sodium pentathol first and if that doesn't work then resort to physical torture to extract prisoner information.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally Posted by Chasiubao_Boy

we should at the very least use sodium pentathol first and if that doesn't work then resort to physical torture to extract prisoner information.

i'm not completely against the use of physical force for information extraction. it might save a lot of lives. but using that information against the guy in court is absurd. if a guy is breaking my bones or something, then i'm prolly gonna say what he wants to hear... true or not.

[nonamerasian]

How could anyone be sure that the info gathered from torture is credible?

While it might cause someone guilty to break, it might cause people who know nothing to come up with something quick because of fear.

Torture most people enough and they are bound to say anything to end the torment.

Using torture isn't legal for police to use here, but still we hear about cases where people have given false confessions and whatnot against themselves because they couldn't stand the pressure.

[SunWuKong]

this is fucking ridiculous. next they'll start revoking US citizenship so they can label someone a terrorist and take away all the rights guaranteed in the Constitutional Amendments.

Originally Posted by nonamerasian

How could anyone be sure that the info gathered from torture is credible?

that doesn't matter to them. they just want to jail people to show the American public that they're safe, amidst all this public sentiments that we're not really that much safer even after we've taken Afghanistan and deposed Saddam.

[yoMAMA]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

this is fucking ridiculous. next they'll start revoking US citizenship so they can label someone a terrorist and take away all the rights guaranteed in the Constitutional Amendments.



that doesn't matter to them. they just want to jail people to show the American public that they're safe, amidst all this public sentiments that we're not really that much safer even after we've taken Afghanistan and deposed Saddam.

Welcome to der fourth reich.

[kpih]

Probably with some of the shit I say in class and among friends I expect my door being knocked down any day now...

May be I should learn to love the pain...

Tell my mom I love her...

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally Posted by kpih

May be I should learn to love the pain...

Interestingly, a lot of people who suffered torture say the threat of torture was scarier and worse than the actual torture itself. I guess you don't know your tolerance for extreme pain until you're actually experiencing it.

[nonamerasian]

Originally Posted by AliBabaIncorporated

Interestingly, a lot of people who suffered torture say the threat of torture was scarier and worse than the actual torture itself. I guess you don't know your tolerance for extreme pain until you're actually experiencing it.

Maybe it's the knowing what's happening than the tolerance.

Like when told or reading a monster story where readers have to rely on their imaginations to give a face to the creature, some people will get scared, but when watching a movie that shows the monster, many of the some people will say it's not as scary as they imagined it before.

Being told you're going to be tortured probably sends the imagination running, imagining the worst of the worst. When you are actually being tortured, the monster finally has a face.

[kpih]

Originally Posted by AliBabaIncorporated

Interestingly, a lot of people who suffered torture say the threat of torture was scarier and worse than the actual torture itself. I guess you don't know your tolerance for extreme pain until you're actually experiencing it.

Thanks for the warning. I am starting to psych myself up as we speak...

[Chu Chi]

Originally Posted by AliBabaIncorporated

Interestingly, a lot of people who suffered torture say the threat of torture was scarier and worse than the actual torture itself.

Wait a minute...that sounds like terrorism.

Terrifying people in order to end the practice of terrorism?

That won't work because it can't work.

Why?

Because this is supposed to be a war AGAINST terror, not a war in support of terror.

CC