powell not fuzzy on taiwan's relationship w/ china

[VV o n g B a]

Taiwan calls Powell speech ‘big surprise’
Secretary of State emphasizes ‘one China’ policy
The Associated Press
Updated: 12:37 p.m. ET Oct. 26, 2004

TAIPEI, Taiwan - Secretary of State Colin Powell has angered Taiwanese officials and lawmakers by making unusually strong comments denying that the island is an independent nation and suggesting Taiwan should unify with China.

Washington usually avoids weighing in on the touchy split, which arose when Mao Zedong’s communist army won control of the Chinese mainland in 1949 and anti-communist forces took refuge on Taiwan.

But Powell waded into the unification question Monday in interviews with CNN and Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television during a one-day visit to China.

According to a State Department transcript, Powell told Phoenix:

“There is only one China. Taiwan is not independent. It does not enjoy sovereignty as a nation, and that remains our policy, our firm policy.”

full article

[SunWuKong]

uh... why is it a "big surprise"? that has been the stance of the US since China and the US formalised their relationship in the 70s...

[VV o n g B a]

i thought that US policy only said "there is one china." the US just never made it clear if taiwan was a part of china or if china was a part of taiwan. or am i missing something?

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by VV o n g B a

i thought that US policy only said "there is one china." the US just never made it clear if taiwan was a part of china or if china was a part of taiwan. or am i missing something?

well, Taiwan being a part of China is really the gist of the "One China" policy.

Originally Posted by JOINT U.S.-CHINA COMMUNIQUE, SHANGHAI, February 27, 1972

The two sides reviewed the long-standing serious disputes between China and the United States. The Chinese reaffirmed its position: The Taiwan question is the crucial question obstructing the normalization of relations between China and the United States; the Government of the People's Republic of China is the sole legal government of China; Taiwan is a province of China which has long been returned to the motherland; the liberation of Taiwan is China's internal affair in which no other country has the right to interfere; and all U.S. forces and military installations must be withdrawn from Taiwan. The Chinese Government firmly opposes any activities which aim at the creation of "one China, one Taiwan," "one China, two governments," "two Chinas," and "independent Taiwan" or advocate that "the status of Taiwan remains to be determined."

The U.S. side declared: The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves. With this prospect in mind, it affirms the ultimate objective of the withdrawal of all U.S. forces and military installations from Taiwan. In the meantime, it will progressively reduce its forces and military installations on Taiwan as the tension in the area diminishes.

http://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/uscn/docs/jc/720227.htm

[VV o n g B a]

what i stated earlier isn't necessarily contradicted by the US statement. u can interpret what the US said as mainland china and taiwan are both part of china. it doesn't specify whether china here means the people's republic of china or the republic of china. i thought the fuzziness was pretty important to all parties involved in the past...

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by VV o n g B a

what i stated earlier isn't necessarily contradicted by the US statement.

actually it does. read what i quoted again, specifically:

the Government of the People's Republic of China is the sole legal government of China; Taiwan is a province of China which has long been returned to the motherland

[Shogun Empress]

I thought the U.S. would support Taiwan to its fullest since its not a Communist nation. So the U.S. only gets involved when war is inevitable? Do they want another Vietnam and Korea along with the Iraq problem? I heard Colin Powell will resign if Bush wins. Let's hope he's good on his word.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

actually it does. read what i quoted again, specifically:

yes, i read that part. but thats what china said, not the US. the US simply didn't contradict china in its own statement. the US didn't affirm china's stance.

the entire communique reads as if the two sides are talking at each other and not with each other. there isn't anything here that says: both the US and china affirm this statement blah blah blah...

i also found this cached in google

The One-China policy (一個中國) is the principle that there is one China and both Mainland China and Taiwan are part of that China. What this exactly means is somewhat ambiguous.

One interpretation, which was adopted during the Cold War, is that either the People's Republic of China or the Republic of China is the sole rightful government of all of China and the other government is illegitimate.

Another interpretation is that there exists only one geographical region of China, which was split into two Chinese states by the Chinese Civil War. Supporters of Chinese reunification believe that this "one China" should eventually reunite under a single government.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally Posted by Shogun Empress

I thought the U.S. would support Taiwan to its fullest since its not a Communist nation. So the U.S. only gets involved when war is inevitable? Do they want another Vietnam and Korea along with the Iraq problem? I heard Colin Powell will resign if Bush wins. Let's hope he's good on his word.

Oh, come on. The whole "Communists are Evil" thing went right out the window when China became a major US trading partner. Who nowadays still believes that politics has anything to do with die hard ideology? Government and politicians are motivated entirely by money. Wave a few hundred thousand dollars in campaign contributions under a politico's nose and you've got a friend in high places willing to dance when you tell him or her to.

Money is King. Problems are created and resolved with currency, you know.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by VV o n g B a

yes, i read that part. but thats what china said, not the US. the US simply didn't contradict china in its own statement. the US didn't affirm china's stance.

the entire communique reads as if the two sides are talking at each other and not with each other. there isn't anything here that says: both the US and china affirm this statement blah blah blah...

ok, well, but that still does not contradict what Powell said:

Originally Posted by Powell

There is only one China. Taiwan is not independent. It does not enjoy sovereignty as a nation, and that remains our policy, our firm policy.

so like i was saying, i don't understand why Taiwanese government should be so surprised by his comment, and i don't see how that's a departure of existing US policy. the US specifically "declared" in the Shanghai Communique that "Taiwan is a part of China".

besides, all they need to remind themselves of is that Taiwan does not have an official embassy or consulate in the US. it has TECRO, which acts like an embassy. and any average person can go on the web-based CIA factbook to see that Taiwan is not listed as an officially recognised country, and that in the map of China, Taiwan is included as part of its territory. so again, why should anybody be surprised that the US government officially states that Taiwan is not independent? yes, we all know that the US deals with Taiwan like it was independent, but it does not officially state that Taiwan is independent. it would be a departure from existing policy if the US officially states that Taiwan is independent.

[deez nuts]

i just hope this will shut ah bien and his lackeys up and maybe they'll start behaving. keywords here being hope and maybe.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by Chasiubao_Boy

i just hope this will shut ah bien and his lackeys up and maybe they'll start behaving. keywords here being hope and maybe.

i suspect they just had to react toward Powell's comment in order to maintain support from pro-independence people in Taiwan.

[VV o n g B a]

Originally Posted by SunWuKong

i suspect they just had to react toward Powell's comment in order to maintain support from pro-independence people in Taiwan.

thats prolly whats happening. the only reason i thought it was different was that powell stated in cut and dry terms what taiwan's relationship w/ china was. powell didn't contradict earlier statements at all. he made them clear.

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by VV o n g B a

thats prolly whats happening. the only reason i thought it was different was that powell stated in cut and dry terms what taiwan's relationship w/ china was. powell didn't contradict earlier statements at all. he made them clear.

that hardly matters, in my opinion. the US is still going to maintain an ambiguous relationship with Taiwan where officially it doesn't recognise Taiwan, but in nearly every single way, treats it as an independent nation.

[Shogun Empress]

Originally Posted by Emperor_Mike

Oh, come on. The whole "Communists are Evil" thing went right out the window when China became a major US trading partner. Who nowadays still believes that politics has anything to do with die hard ideology? Government and politicians are motivated entirely by money. Wave a few hundred thousand dollars in campaign contributions under a politico's nose and you've got a friend in high places willing to dance when you tell him or her to.

Money is King. Problems are created and resolved with currency, you know.

Figures...

*pops in Farenheit 9/11*