African Americans and Asian Americans

[SunWuKong]

edit:
this is taken from another thread. for reference, go here:

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Originally posted by Hito@Sep 20 2002, 12:52 AM
Poverty?
Refusal of work/servaces based on the color of our skin?
Being pulled over by cops when you are in a nice car in the wrong part of town?
And Inequity in the justice system is a problem that we all face isnt it?
Oh and as you say a lack of positive images in the popular media...

on the average, asian americans have a higher percentage of success rates than white americans and certainly black americans. of those asian americans that are in poverty, i personally do not think that it's because "the white man is trying to keep us down". they are most likely immigrants who have found it difficult to function well within american society.

i don't believe asian americans face a problem with refusal of work. as for refusal of service, i doubt that asian americans face it as much as african americans. but i do think that asian people and black people, as well as women in general, face a similar problem in the glass ceiling.

i will also concede that when it comes to hate crimes, asian americans face the same possible inequality in the justice system as african americans.

as for portrayal in popular media, the effects of black stereotypes and asian stereotypes are vastly different. black men are portrayed as vigorous or criminals, while asian men are desexualized or portrayed as nerds. even as black women are now finally portrayed as sexually desirable in mainstream media, asian men continue to be desexualized. black people have been dominating mainstream music with the popularization of hip-hop. asian people face a much more difficult battle ahead in mainstream media. in my opinion, black people have already half won their battle with mainstream media. and asian people are not criminalized by mainstream media. if anything, people would think that we are quiet law abiding citizens if they buy into asian stereotypes.

i never said there are no similar problems. but do black people have language issues? immigration issues? being actually held back by incorrect implementation of affirmative action? being thought of as foreigners and novices of the english language?

just take a look around this site, what issues do the asian people around here talk about? is it poverty? refusal of work/service? most of it has to do with identity issues of being asian in this country, with language issues, reconciliating our asian cultural values with our american cultural values, etc etc.

[deez nuts]

One example would be black men are perceived as studs and asian man is perceived as duds. Will add to it as we go along.

[Reinhard H.]

Actually blacks seem to enjoy portraying themselves as criminals, as many black movies like "menace 2 society" or "boyz 'n the hood" as well as many gangsta rap videos and lyrics glorifying crime are produced by blacks themselves. Regarding Asian male portrayals I would recommend watching some Hong Kong and Chinese produced movies and looking out in what roles white males are featured (criminals, rapists, racist and violent foreigners, mafia, fat and rude tourists).

[tapestrybabe]

i'm asian. my brother, he's black. we both attended the same high school. it was predominately a white high school... and my experience was way far different than my brothers. high school was one of my most tormenting years for me... when it came to being picked on from the other students-- such as being labeled as an ESL student, even tho i knew perfect english-- esl meaning Extra Slow Learners to them.... ppl saying ching chong in front of my face, doing karate chops, etc... and it wasn't just from the white folks.. but it was from the other minorities in my school as well... and my brother, he never experienced all these things... he had a much easier time in high school than i did...

so you cant say my asian experience is the same thing as my black brother's experience....

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Sep 20 2002, 09:48 PM
Actually blacks seem to enjoy portraying themselves as criminals, as many black movies like "menace 2 society" or "boyz 'n the hood" as well as many gangsta rap videos and lyrics glorifying crime are produced by blacks themselves. Regarding Asian male portrayals I would recommend watching some Hong Kong and Chinese produced movies and looking out in what roles white males are featured (criminals, rapists, racist and violent foreigners, mafia, fat and rude tourists).

yes sometimes there are unfair portrayal of white people in HK movies. but alot of times they are also portrayed as people of prestige and wealth. have you watched HK TV series also? i have.

by the way, we are talking about Asian American issues, not issues of American expats in Asia. and specifically in this thread, we are talking about the similarities and differences in the struggles that African Americans and Asian Americans face. i have actually talked about ridiculous white peoples' portrayals in HK media with some of my HK friends. if you would like to discuss that i think it might be a good idea to start another thread.



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Sep 20 2002, 10:28 PM-->

[deez nuts]

Would also like to add how affirmative action in regards to education has progressed to the point where asian americans are hurt by this rather than helped. Can't speak for everyone, but from my own experience (I know it's been discussed in another thread).

In undergrad:
1)Got a brochure from MIT. They devoted a section that said they don't set a higher standard for asian americans to attend MIT. I'm sure the two YW peeps that attended MIT can clarify this more. I've also read this in the Harvard brochure. Ok, kinda weird to me, they would devote a section to explain this.

2)Was a near straight A student all honors and AP classes scored 1470 on the SAT, Westinghouse Science team, and other activities. Stuy HS (specialized NYC public HS)grad. My parents were poor, I didn't have an SAT tutor, worked part time after school. Thought I made an impression during the interview. Didn't get into Harvard.
My next door neighbor's son, black (mind you we are close) so we knew everything about each other. When I did not get in, he thought his chances were shot. His GPA lower than mine (but still top 15%), SAT 1290, and school activities. Got in. Happy for him. Just bringing my experience to the table.

College applying to med school
1)GPA 3.8 <something>, Each MCAT section based out of max of 15. MCAT: 11/15 verbal, 12/15 Physical Science, 12/15 Biological Science. Again, poor, no MCAT prep course, studied it all on my own and from a borrowed notes from a friend Princeton Review. Biochem TA, Oncology research RA, other activites like hospital volunteer, translator blah blah

2)Another black friend 3.2 GPA, MCAT 10 verbal, 10 biological and 9 physical. Had little extracurricular activites.

We both interviewed at Johns Hopkins. I made a solid impression on the interviewers. Was even told so after the interview. I got wait listed, my black friend got in.

Affirmative action? I believe so. Am I bitter? No. They were both my friends, I am happy for them. But is it fair for Asians to have the bar raised so high? I don't think so.

Again, I only speak from my own experience. Did, I fuck up somewhere, in both those processes, maybe. But, hey I did my best, no regrets. I don't blame thethe white man or the black man. I'll take my shit like a man.

In my honest opinion, asians have never gotten their fair share of the pie. And from speaking with my black friends, they believe that also of the asian people. That alone makes us different.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 20 2002, 11:15 PM-->

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by KuroBishounen@Sep 21 2002, 12:50 AM
-I was picked on due to my dark skin...(and that was from Blacks, Asians, and one White guy who hung out with this Black guy)...and/or calling me "gorilla"..."monkey"...(what have you)...

i guess it can be tough all around. But even still.. when i view my brother and myself.. i feel currently we face different issues. i go into a KSA meeting... something that i want to be a part of... but i'm set a part from them.... cuz i cant speak their language. And i dont see my brother facing that language issue if he wants to get involved in an African American group... he wont be looked down upon just cuz he's fluent in english...

Also, when it comes to identity... me going thru my asian vs. american issues.... i dont see my brother ever having to deal with his black vs. american issues... and maybe some black ppl go thru that.. but i dont see it as so visible to me...

dunno.... me, i just view it that we face different issues... but yeah, i guess it can be just tough all around...

[sandra]

our problems may not be identical, but we both face discrimination and there is strength in numbers. while blacks may have trouble getting hired into entry level positions in certain fields, asians may get hired but have trouble getting promoted. affirmative action in the workplace can help both groups out.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by Reinhard H.@Sep 21 2002, 02:48 AM
Regarding Asian male portrayals I would recommend watching some Hong Kong and Chinese produced movies and looking out in what roles white males are featured (criminals, rapists, racist and violent foreigners, mafia, fat and rude tourists).

Uh yeah, nice try on the moral/cultural relativism "they do it to us, why can't we do it to them?"

However there's a huge difference: no white people in HK are Chinese citizens. Very few are Hong Kong permanent residents. On any given day, if you walk down the street the majority of white people you will see are non-Cantonese speaking tourists. Yet in movies they are still portrayed as competent workers and even as fluent Cantonese speakers. Even though I guarantee you that it is damn near impossible to find white person in HK who speaks Cantonese more fluently than English. As compared to the millions of Asians in the US who are citizens and permanent residents and speak English more fluently than their ancestral languages, but are still portrayed as foreigners speaking in funny accents.

Furthermore, I can't come up with any examples of whites portrayed as criminals, rapists, racist and violent foreigners, mafia, or fat and rude tourists (even though as I mentioned, most of the whites in HK are tourists). On the other hand, we see them portrayed in various upstanding societal functions even when their presence does nothing to enhance the story (as compared to US TV series where an AA actor is always related to some lame Asian cultural tie-in even when such AAs don't know a damn thing about their ancestral culture).

The most recent cinematic release in Hong Kong "So Close" (Xi Yang Tian Shi) features a white guy as a skilled software consultant. (He can't act for crap, but that's his problem, unless you wanna claim there's an Asia-wide conspiracy to portray white people in Asia as really bad actors). Another white guy makes a brief appearance as a corporate executive. Young and Dangerous (Gu Huo Zai) features a white guy as a Cantonese-speaking police chief. I'd say this is good representation considering the miniscule percentage of white people in the local population. In TV series regarding modern life, White people are almost always featured at least as extras, dressed in suits and socializing pleasantly with each other in bars or at cocktail parties. Sometimes they even get speaking roles despite their complete inability to speak Cantonese. (See, for example, File of Justice season one, episode ... umm, 4, I think?) The TV series Kanghsi Dynasty (Kang Xi Ti Guo) threw in a few white characters every now and then, such as a Russian foreign minister, representing powerful interests to which the other characters showed respect.

[Reinhard H.]

I don't want to act as if I was an expert on Hong Kong movies or TV series, I can only base my judgement on a couple of Hong Kong movies I saw that featured whites in very negative roles, even though some of them were both negative and powerful (like the white mafia boss). One scene I vividly remember is from the movie "A better tomorrow 2" where Chow Yun Fat first humiliates and later kills of a whole gang of white criminals in a pretty racist fashion (forces them to eat rice at gunpoint shouting "for us this rice is like our parents" while some other Chinese person in the background says "fucking foreigners" over and over again). In another movie you have a fat, beardy American tourist who walks into a Chinese fast food joint and hits the waiter because he doesn't serve him fast enough, shouting "you stupid Chinese pig", is this how ordinary tourists behave? If you had similar scenes involving Asians in the US, people would be screaming "racism". On the other hand in American movies you have actors like Chow Yun Fat, Jackie Chan, Jet Li or Russel Wong (happa) in lead roles as positive heroes who end up with the white woman after killing bad white men.

[SunWuKong]

everybody, and especially Reinhard H., this thread is about the differences and similarities in struggles that blacks and Asians face in this country. it is not a discussion about whether or not they are portrayed fairly in popular media, or whether or not they deserve unfair portrayal. please do not hijack this thread to talk about that - that comment is directed toward you, Reinhard H.

i have started a new thread for anybody who wants to discuss that. anybody who insists on further hijacking the topic of this thread will be kicked off the thread.

here is the new thread.



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Sep 21 2002, 10:58 AM-->

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 21 2002, 04:11 AM
In undergrad:
1)Got a brochure from MIT. They devoted a section that said they don't set a higher standard for asian americans to attend MIT. I'm sure the two YW peeps that attended MIT can clarify this more. I've also read this in the Harvard brochure. Ok, kinda weird to me, they would devote a section to explain this.

2)Was a near straight A student all honors and AP classes scored 1470 on the SAT, Westinghouse Science team, and other activities. Stuy HS (specialized NYC public HS)grad. My parents were poor, I didn't have an SAT tutor, worked part time after school. Thought I made an impression during the interview. Didn't get into Harvard.
My next door neighbor's son, black (mind you we are close) so we knew everything about each other. When I did not get in, he thought his chances were shot. His GPA lower than mine (but still top 15%), SAT 1290, and school activities. Got in. Happy for him. Just bringing my experience to the table.

You know, the same shit happened to me. But the people who had lower scores, lower grades, and crappier records than me who got in weren't much different than me. There were Asian kids who cheated off me for 4 years n high school and got in. I think that situation has more to do with the fickle acceptance policy than it does with affirmative action.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 21 2002, 02:36 PM

You know, the same shit happened to me. But the people who had lower scores, lower grades, and crappier records than me who got in weren't much different than me. There were Asian kids who cheated off me for 4 years n high school and got in. I think that situation has more to do with the fickle acceptance policy than it does with affirmative action.

did you feel cheated? I did to an extent. I feel sorry for the younger asian kids that's applying to the top tier colleges now, I can only imagine how high the bar is set.

Ok, I concede that fickle admission policies, prolly played a role. But, I don't beleive that to be the sole reason for one minute.

Come on barring politics, a chink is just trying to do the best he can, make a living and provide for his future family.

But I'm content where I am now, shit could've been worse <shrug>

So explain to me again how blacks and asians are almost carbon copies of one another in terms of issues and struggles?



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 21 2002, 03:05 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

i'll say it again bunboy, shit cornell med? you're did damn well. B)

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 21 2002, 03:04 PM
i'll say it again bunboy, shit cornell med? you're did damn well. B)

Thanks MK.

But I just feel sorry for the younger asians that are applying to colleges or grad schools nowadays where it seems to me being asian may sometimes prove more harm than good.

How is it gonna be like for my kids, come their turn?