Five Guantanamo Bay Britons Released (Again)

[Martino]

The British citizens arrested yesterday by anti-terrorist police here have been released without charge. Which raises the question: on what evidence was it deemed neccesary to hold them at Guantanamo for two years, if British anti terrorist police think that there is no case against them?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3500156.stm

[DavidJoo]

Evidence that to be blunt, is way above what you're probably cleared to know.

There's a lot of cloak and dagger business going on in the counter-terrorism business, and frankly we'll never get the straight story, nor should we. Spilling intelligence information all too often gets our agents killed and/or compromises future operations.

[Martino]

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

Evidence that to be blunt, is way above what you're probably cleared to know.

Uh-huh, but British anti-terrorist police ARE cleared - and they released the men without charge.

[DavidJoo]

What probably happened is that these Britons were captured in Afgfhan or Iraq in the company of some sahdy characters. They were probably involved in the lucrative drug trafficking...otherwise why would Briton civilians sneak into a war zone and stay there unannounced?

They were then probably captured in a raid, and were held in Gitmo while ensuring that they were mere drug dealers and not actual terrorists.

Thats my guess.

[hooligan]

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

What probably happened is that these Britons were captured in Afgfhan or Iraq in the company of some sahdy characters. They were probably involved in the lucrative drug trafficking...otherwise why would Briton civilians sneak into a war zone and stay there unannounced?

They were then probably captured in a raid, and were held in Gitmo while ensuring that they were mere drug dealers and not actual terrorists.

Thats my guess.

all things considered, that bay is one big hazy civil rights issue.

[Martino]

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

What probably happened is that these Britons were captured in Afgfhan or Iraq in the company of some sahdy characters. They were probably involved in the lucrative drug trafficking...otherwise why would Briton civilians sneak into a war zone and stay there unannounced?

They were then probably captured in a raid, and were held in Gitmo while ensuring that they were mere drug dealers and not actual terrorists.

Thats my guess.

Why say "what probably happened" - why not check out what happened? One of the Britons was in a Taliban prison on suspicion of being a British spy when the Americans took the facility. America has refused to say why he was then shipped to Guantanamo.

Originally Posted by hooligan

all things considered, that bay is one big hazy civil rights issue.

It's an affront to civilisation and international law.

[DavidJoo]

Originally Posted by Martino

Why say "what probably happened" - why not check out what happened? One of the Britons was in a Taliban prison on suspicion of being a British spy when the Americans took the facility. America has refused to say why he was then shipped to Guantanamo.



It's an affront to civilisation and international law.

Again, there are just some things that average people are better off not knowing. If we want to know "what happened," we'd have to ask, who were these Britons? What were they doing there? Why were they over there? What methods and intelligence was used to capture them? How did we get this intelligence...

Get it? Our intel boys have enough to worry about. Last thing we need is to compromise them and spill all their ways and means out for the whole world to see.

At this point, it's simply about having faith in your government. And before you turn this into a "Bush is a liar," statement, you should know that such operations AND Gitmo has been running for several decades now. It's just a way of life, and until the democratic people of America decide it's unjust (which they haven't), that's the way it's going to be.

And before you call Gitmo an affront to civilization, you should say that terrorists are a threat to life as we know it. Without terrorists, no Gitmo. So let's place the blame where it needs to be placed.

[hooligan]

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

Again, there are just some things that average people are better off not knowing. If we want to know "what happened," we'd have to ask, who were these Britons? What were they doing there? Why were they over there? What methods and intelligence was used to capture them? How did we get this intelligence...

Get it? Our intel boys have enough to worry about. Last thing we need is to compromise them and spill all their ways and means out for the whole world to see.

At this point, it's simply about having faith in your government. And before you turn this into a "Bush is a liar," statement, you should know that such operations AND Gitmo has been running for several decades now. It's just a way of life, and until the democratic people of America decide it's unjust (which they haven't), that's the way it's going to be.

the men in black suits are coming for you david and they won't tell you why.

[DavidJoo]

Originally Posted by hooligan

the men in black suits are coming for you david and they won't tell you why.

Nah. My uncle works for the CIA, and he's really tight-lipped about things, and I respect him for it.

All this conspiracy theory nonsense is hard to swallow, and it's men like my uncle who are putting these people in Gitmo. And since my uncle is a loving, normal human being, I just have faith that for whatever reason they're putting people in Gitmo, they have their reasons.

I think everyone just needs to go out and get to know the people in the intelligence and military world. They are normal, red blooded people just like you. They won't put a person in jail illegally or out of anger and hate.

[Martino]

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

Again, there are just some things that average people are better off not knowing.

Well, if you live in a police state perhaps. I prefer to keep governments and their agencies accountable to the people.

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

If we want to know "what happened," we'd have to ask, who were these Britons? What were they doing there? Why were they over there? What methods and intelligence was used to capture them? How did we get this intelligence...

Where is "there"? Do you know that much? Many prisoners in GC were arrested in places like Pakistan by Pakistan security forces - hardly a cause for suspicion. Pakistan is a popular holiday destination for Muslims, as well as a centre for study.

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

Get it? Our intel boys have enough to worry about. Last thing we need is to compromise them and spill all their ways and means out for the whole world to see.

Our boys? This is a joint effort. I have lost count of the number of people (invariably American) who think they went into Iraq alone.

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

At this point, it's simply about having faith in your government. And before you turn this into a "Bush is a liar," statement, you should know that such operations AND Gitmo has been running for several decades now. It's just a way of life, and until the democratic people of America decide it's unjust (which they haven't), that's the way it's going to be.

Last time I looked, the American people don't have a say in the matter. Even the Supreme Court has decided it doesn't have jurisdiction there. Muslims are being demonised and human rights over-looked.

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

And before you call Gitmo an affront to civilization, you should say that terrorists are a threat to life as we know it. Without terrorists, no Gitmo. So let's place the blame where it needs to be placed.

So it a dictatorial US government that picks and chooses when it observes international law. Guantanamo is a violation of the Geneva Convention and the Unilateral Declaration of Human Rights. To date, every person released piece-meal from the camp has been found to have no links to terrorism.

That's not just.

[>:^|]

I believe in the Tooth Fairy. I believe in the Easter Bunny. I believe in Santa Claus too.

[DavidJoo]

Originally Posted by Martino

Guantanamo is a violation of the Geneva Convention and the Unilateral Declaration of Human Rights. To date, every person released piece-meal from the camp has been found to have no links to terrorism.

That's not just.

Has there ever been a finding by the international court that Guantanmo is in violation of international law? If there is then that's different, but I haven't heard of anything but suspicious conjectures.

But then maybe I'm a bit biased. I happen to think racial profiling (to a certain extent, ie arabs at airports, arabs signing up for flying lessons) is somewhat justifiable in a time of war. I understand this is not the most fair practice, but sometimes I just think a little loss of civil rights is necessary for the overall protection of a nation. But never to the extent of the internment of Japanese during WWII. I guess I just opened myself up for lots of attacks

Originally Posted by >:^|

I believe in the Tooth Fairy. I believe in the Easter Bunny. I believe in Santa Claus too.

C'mon, we're trying to have a serious discussion. No need for unnecessary banter or commentary.

[Martino]

Originally Posted by DavidJoo

Has there ever been a finding by the international court that Guantanmo is in violation of international law? If there is then that's different, but I haven't heard of anything but suspicious conjectures.

You are joking?

[DavidJoo]

Originally Posted by Martino

You are joking?

Nope. I forget the name of the international court, so I couldn't look it up. Please point me to the right direction.

To clarify, I understand that the UN has its own court system. But is there another international court separate from the UN?

[>:^|]

Oh, let's see. There's the Geneva Convention. And there's the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

And then there's the Court of Appeals ruling that non-U.S. citizens can't petition U.S. courts because Guantanamo isn't U.S. territory, despite the fact that the U.S. has complete jurisdiction over Guantanamo and that U.S. courts are the only avenue in which to address detention.

And what about the kids that are being held there?