Your experiences with sexism with Asian men

[shy]

blue dice,

okay... i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a discriminator of IR-coupling. i also, however, do agree w/ what kittygirl says. but i will give you that benefit of the doubt that you are being honest.

and i will admit that there can be SOME of this 'white superiority'. i just want you to know that even though i'm not into this 'battle' or 'ranting' per say, doesn't mean that i don't recognize that. i think there was one point that you assumed that i didn't recognize that.

just because i am a first generationer over here in canada, i'm not completely blind. and while you want people to see this white superiority complex issue, i also just want people to realize that they should be careful how they fight their battle with this issue because the other extreme is that those who are in IR's do get jaded when many of these people are quite innocent from this white superiority complex.

and i'm sorry if i sounded harsh with you... but try to understand that you're not the first to bring this up here. and i know you wouldn't know because looking at the number of posts you've had, you probably haven't been around to see the crap that some of us in IR-relationship have had to endure. especially us women.

so perhaps i got upset with hearing what you've had to say in this thread because i believe the reason why this thread started, was after a series of other threads that lead to bashing of us AF's with WM for, basically, either being sellouts, clueless, in denial and/or wouldn't know any better so we should basically shut up.

at least try to understand how tiring it is for us... it's like hearing people shouting in our ears. so when some one as aggressive as you, even though i have to give your credit for at least making an attempt to be way more civil, comes along, you sort of become part of that 'noise' even though that was not your intention.

know what i mean?

[Blue dice]

Originally Posted by ayumi

The black that responded to my post had no idea what I was talking about due to lack of attendance at Asian parties.

"The black" ?? Noone likes having their ethnicity objectified. Referring to someone as "the black" is about as bad as someone calling me "the asian" or "the chinaman." It _is_ degrading to that person.

So I questioned his need to comment on something he has no idea what he's talking about. Then someone else said well let's all be "we" because we're all minorities, and I was like "no" because I don't identify with all blacks just because they're a minority and I am too.

It doesn't matter whether or not you choose to identify with blacks in this country in more ways than one as minorities we face similar issues. True empowerment doesn't come from fostering racism against another ethnicity. For instance many of the racism issues asians are just realizing have been written about for decades by black academics.

But anyway, back to the original post. If we want to prove to ourselves how sexist Asian men are towards Asian women - we need not look further than within our own families. Do any of our fathers do laundry? Cook? Shop for groceries? Do the dishes? Change the baby's diapers?

That sure as hell wasn't the way it worked in my parent's or other relative's households when growing up. If anything my mom directs "traffic" while my dad does everything.

[kitty]

Blue_dice... I understand your feelings about wanting to point out that the Asian culture isn't more or less sexist than other cultures... and that all men are relatively equally sexist (which is an opinion I respect more than 'men aren't sexist, women have only themselves to blame for modern concepts of beauty -- what about free will??').

However, my experience has been that Asian men seem to think that because they are so disenfranchised in modern media, with such negative portrayals as Charlie Chan and Sixteen Candles, that they are somehow incapable of sexism, when a lot of their talk is very sexist. For example, many asian men (and not all) will lambast Asian women in IR relationships (as shy said) using the words 'our women', but will in turn congratulate one another for 'scoring with a white woman'. these are Asian-specific examples of sexism.

Therefore, I think this thread was started not to single out Asian men as being particularly sexist, but pointing out instances in which Asian men can be sexist -- times which are largely ignored in discussions because the topic must inevitably defer to the disenfranchisement of Asian men. Asia men *aren't* on the whole more sexist than other people, but they *are* on the whole sexist in different ways than men of other ethnicities.

[shy]

ayumi,

surprise! surprise! i actually agree with blue dice... 'the black' is a horrible way to refer to some one. show some respect, please.

also... why can't this person give his/her advice even though he/she is not asian? and it's got nothing to do with 'we're all minorities'. to be honest, i would listen to an oppinion of a caucasian person so long as what he/she says is reasonable. it's not about being a minority. it's about being human. and knowing what's going around us even if it's not happening to us.

[shy]

Originally Posted by kittygirl

For example, many asian men (and not all) will lambast Asian women in IR relationships (as shy said) using the words 'our women', but will in turn congratulate one another for 'scoring with a white woman'. these are Asian-specific examples of sexism.

actually, as for as my personal experiences, that example rates pretty high with being called a sellout or that my future child is going to be some kind of disease to the asian gene pool or whatever.

i find it extremely wussy when i have heard asian guys do that... call a woman for being a sellout for being with a caucasian guy but then turns around to say that they'll 'screw a white chick' but won't be serious with her. in my mind, that is worst. that is basically doing whatever is convenient for them. and it's horribly rude to the caucasian woman that they are using. that's basically saying to another human being, "you're only good for a fuck... but not good enough for me to take your seriously due to your race."

to me... that is equally racist.

[>:^|]

I'm now starting to understand why some Asian women wouldn't want to date some Asian men.

[Tao]

Originally Posted by ayumi

But anyway, back to the original post. If we want to prove to ourselves how sexist Asian men are towards Asian women - we need not look further than within our own families. Do any of our fathers do laundry? Cook? Shop for groceries? Do the dishes? Change the baby's diapers?

yes...yes...yes.....yes...and yes (but that was when i was a baby).

my family rocks. when my dad comes back home from business trips to china, my mom doesn't lift a finger.


i don't know if this example is the minority or not, but all i got to say regarding all this generalization going on in this thread is that it is just what it is....generalizations. granted a whole lot of generalizations, but none the less it is all heresay, and should be viewed as individuals vs individuals instead of i know those people at the supermarket don't do this or that so therefore i'm going to rely on my "evidence" and draw sweeping conclusions. Yes, I know that everyone here is saying that what they post is just their own personal experiences, and I am not by any way negating the validity of your SPECIFIC example. All I'm requesting that people do here is keeping in mind that although what they say is true..for them...it is defiently not true for everyone, especially if the topic of your conversations includes the profile of the person reading the posts....no matter how much you say it is only "my experience" to the other member it will seem like a personal attack....sorry to say that's just the way it goes. My point is that we should all keep an open mind when it comes to these things. Accept that some asian men are sexist pigs, i know i've seen my fair share of them. But also accept the fact that there are many asian men who are not raised that way (both here and in asia..especially china ). And also be willing to admit that many white, black, latino, indian, micronesian, whatever men are also capable of doing whatever to "their" women. I think if we all just give a little on this point, and be more accepting of these posts more as personal statements about that person's life rather than some sorta social phenomena, then we'd all be better off

[Tao]

Originally Posted by kittygirl

Blue_dice... I understand your feelings about wanting to point out that the Asian culture isn't more or less sexist than other cultures... and that all men are relatively equally sexist (which is an opinion I respect more than 'men aren't sexist, women have only themselves to blame for modern concepts of beauty -- what about free will??').

However, my experience has been that Asian men seem to think that because they are so disenfranchised in modern media, with such negative portrayals as Charlie Chan and Sixteen Candles, that they are somehow incapable of sexism, when a lot of their talk is very sexist. For example, many asian men (and not all) will lambast Asian women in IR relationships (as shy said) using the words 'our women', but will in turn congratulate one another for 'scoring with a white woman'. these are Asian-specific examples of sexism.

Therefore, I think this thread was started not to single out Asian men as being particularly sexist, but pointing out instances in which Asian men can be sexist -- times which are largely ignored in discussions because the topic must inevitably defer to the disenfranchisement of Asian men. Asia men *aren't* on the whole more sexist than other people, but they *are* on the whole sexist in different ways than men of other ethnicities.

didn't read your post there before i commented

if only you had posted this on the first page of this thread i'm sure it would've solved a lot of the misinterpretations.

[Blue dice]

Originally Posted by kittygirl

However, my experience has been that Asian men seem to think that because they are so disenfranchised in modern media, with such negative portrayals as Charlie Chan and Sixteen Candles, that they are somehow incapable of sexism, when a lot of their talk is very sexist. For example, many asian men (and not all) will lambast Asian women in IR relationships (as shy said) using the words 'our women', but will in turn congratulate one another for 'scoring with a white woman'. these are Asian-specific examples of sexism.

You can chalk that up as male immaturity. I'll admit there's this tit for tat attitude by some asian men that if AF/WM couples are going to exist then all AM/WF couples will be celebrated like it's Independence day. I'll be the first to say that it's hypocritical as well as demeaning for holding whites to such a high standard of social acceptance.

Asia men *aren't* on the whole more sexist than other people, but they *are* on the whole sexist in different ways than men of other ethnicities.

I don't see how what you mentioned before is different from a male of any other race though. I've seen white guys talk trash calling asians "gooks" and "chinks" yet go out of their way to befriend asian females for sex. Awhile back I posted a topic from stormfront.org (white supremacist board) where a few of the hardcore white supremacists were bragging about how many asian women they attract. These are the same guys that frown on white women dating any other ethnicities. So even with males of other ethnicities there is this sexist score-keeping with women.

[Tao]

Originally Posted by d-boy

so many here think they are educated, worldly, independent free-thinkers....

let me assure you that, in a majority of cases, you are not.

fuck

[kitty]

Originally Posted by Blue dice

You can chalk that up as male immaturity. I'll admit there's this tit for tat attitude by some asian men that if AF/WM couples are going to exist then all AM/WF couples will be celebrated like it's Independence day. I'll be the first to say that it's hypocritical as well as demeaning for holding whites to such a high standard of social acceptance.

I don't see how what you mentioned before is different from a male of any other race though. I've seen white guys talk trash calling asians "gooks" and "chinks" yet go out of their way to befriend asian females for sex. Awhile back I posted a topic from stormfront.org (white supremacist board) where a few of the hardcore white supremacists were bragging about how many asian women they attract. These are the same guys that frown on white women dating any other ethnicities. So even with males of other ethnicities there is this sexist score-keeping with women.

true, but that doesn't negate the fact that are asian/asian american men who *are* sexist who aren't called out as being so. and white men don't complain about white female/asian male dating as 'outmarriage by *their* women to 'gooks' and 'chinks'"... it's an asian-specific example i stated that doesn't really parallel very well with what you stated.

basically, why do you have such a hard time accepting that asian men may be guilty of sexism and should be called out as such?

[Blue dice]

Btw, I know many asian women aren't privvy to most male locker room talk so i'll explain a few things..

1) It's possible to be extremely racist and still have sex or even befriend women of the race you hate. Note my example of the white supremacists straight off stormfront.org bragging about their "collection" of asian females.
Look at Nazi Germany as an example they raped countless slav and sometimes Jewish women right before shooting them in the head. They still considered them "inferiors" the sex component is part of that degradation.

2) Males of all ethnicities keep scorecard when it comes to women. This "our women" objectification is hardly an asian male thing or used hypocritically by just some asian males.

3) The idea that whites are generally more accepting of equality in gender is a recent development in western society. It was spurred on by women's movements NOT white men. If it was up to the white man you'd still be sewing, birthing, and baking pies in a pre 1950's setting.

4) Developing countries in general have patriarchal sexist attitudes. This doesn't just go for traditional asians but south americans, eastern europeans, etc..

[d-boy]

Originally Posted by kittygirl

true, but that doesn't negate the fact that are asian/asian american men who *are* sexist who aren't called out as being so. and white men don't complain about white female/asian male dating as 'outmarriage by *their* women to 'gooks' and 'chinks'"... it's an asian-specific example i stated that doesn't really parallel very well with what you stated.

basically, why do you have such a hard time accepting that asian men may be guilty of sexism and should be called out as such?

how do you know WMs don't complain? also, the incidence of WF/AM dating may be low enough to not disturb the general White population.

let's see how WMs react when 50% plus of WFs start importing AM husbands.

i think WMs might start complaining about the gooks and chinks in such an event.

[Blue dice]

Originally Posted by kittygirl

and white men don't complain about white female/asian male dating as 'outmarriage by *their* women to 'gooks' and 'chinks'"

You are truly naive if you believe this is just an asian male thing and white males don't play this game. I've observed this up close and personal from some whites. White females who date blacks receive even more shit.

basically, why do you have such a hard time accepting that asian men may be guilty of sexism and should be called out as such?

Because the sexism you are mentioning is hardly unique to asian males. This is what you are trying to claim and it doesn't sit well with me. I already acknowledged that asian males can be sexist but it's hardly _just_ asian males who do some of the things you mentioned.

[shy]

Originally Posted by d-boy

don't worry dude. you're still young and have time.

seriously, it's hard to deal with all these young college pups who think their sh*t doesn't stink.

ahem... i'm NOT a young college pup. i'm 31 years old. i've been around long enough to have some idea of what's going on.

no one here EVER said that other races don't have their problems with sexism.

but since you are too GOOD for any of us to waste your precious time in reading this thread, and just assume it's all crap, maybe you can at least read my last post to blue dice in which i explained that this thread probably started to give us women on this board a break after we had been bashed for being sellouts and being called 'our woman' and had to endure all THAT crap.

if you're not going to at least try to read most of the posts, then you have no business being here.