Hideki Matsui denied Rookie of the Year

[princeton]

Hideki Matsui today was runner up in voting for the AL Rookie of the Year.
Kansas City shortstop Angel Berroa won the award.

Matsui runner up in Rookie of the Year voting

[yoMAMA]

Godzilla is gonna be mad.

Watch out, tokyo!

:D

[BeTheReds]

What?!?!?!

Rocco Baldelli was robbed!

[princeton]

Yea, I thought the race was between Rocco Baldelli and Matsui... I didn't really think Berroa had a chance... but seeing his numbers... I can see why he got a lot of votes.

I'm curious how many voters discounted Matsui because they don't really consider him a rookie.

[achtungbaby]

Did you guys hear that ESPN ran a headline -- "Berroa Nips Matsui"

[BeTheReds]

Originally Posted by achtungbaby

Did you guys hear that ESPN ran a headline -- "Berroa Nips Matsui"

Wow, that's actually kinda funny. Tho did they really do that? I'd think they would be afraid to run that kinda line, that is of course unless there was no intent behind it and nobody noticed it.

[achtungbaby]

Originally Posted by BeTheReds

Wow, that's actually kinda funny. Tho did they really do that? I'd think they would be afraid to run that kinda line, that is of course unless there was no intent behind it and nobody noticed it.

I dunno...I caught the conversation in passing on the Steve Hartman radio show...

[princeton]

Originally Posted by achtungbaby

I dunno...I caught the conversation in passing on the Steve Hartman radio show...

ON ESPN, the headline is "Berroa edges Matsui" .... was that a Joke on the show? Or did it really run and get changed?

What is the Steve Hartman radio show?

Anyone know?

[BeTheReds]

Originally Posted by princeton

ON ESPN, the headline is "Berroa edges Matsui" .... was that a Joke on the show? Or did it really run and get changed?

What is the Steve Hartman radio show?

Anyone know?

Those racist motherfuckers! It's so totally obvious that they can't look past Matsui's ethnicity so much to the point that they have to use the metaphors for ninja swords just to sell a news story. It is CLEAR that "edge" TOTALLY means the folded blade found on traditional Japanese swords like katanas and wakazashi, but racist ESPN couldn't look past that. What, just because he is Japanese means he carries a Ninja sword with him everywhere! RACISTS! RACISTS I TELL YOU! We must string up Peter Gammons and Dan Patrick NOW! :laugh:

[amietron]

"I guess I just looked too old for a rookie," Matsui said in a statement, going on to congratulate Berroa. "I think he deserves to win."--http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1658488

what a nice guy. such poise.

[Danny]

Totally ridiculous... this is his first year in the MLB, he is a rookie... bunch of bastards....

The ironic thing, the MLB rookie of the year is named after Jackie Robinson, who played in the Negro Leagues before getting into the MLB... the Negro Leagues had players on an equal playing level as the MLB, much like the Japanese league is now....

What really burns me and this is not even becuase he is Japanese, but in general, he did not even make the all rookie team... what a freaking joke....

[BeTheReds]

Originally Posted by Danny

The ironic thing, the MLB rookie of the year is named after Jackie Robinson, who played in the Negro Leagues before getting into the MLB... the Negro Leagues had players on an equal playing level as the MLB, much like the Japanese league is now....

I'd have to disagree on both statements. I don't have any statistics or anything, but I am more inclined to believe that MLB was much better than the Negro Leagues during segregation for many reasons. First, there is a much larger talent pool, being that at the time, blacks were only 10% of the nation's population. Next, like it or not, baseball is a very expensive sport to start at a young age and learn. Thus I would assume that more whites played baseball as kids in organized little leagues than did blacks at that time. If its racist to assume that most blacks were poor duing the Negro League era, then I'm racist.

Next, the Japanese League is NOT on par with MLB. That would be like saying that MLS is congruous with the Premier League. Notice that all the washed up or not quite good enough American players go to Japan, while the best Japanese players play in MLB. The best of the best in all countries play in MLB. Japan resticts foreigners to 2 per team. MLB lets each team sign whoever. Again, the sheer size of the talent pool for MLB (the world's population) vs the talent pool for Japan (Japan's population + 2/25ths of the rest of the world's population) suggests that MLB simply has much more to draw from.

This does not mean that Negro League teams and Japanese teams have not or will not ever defeat an MLB team, as both have happened before, but if they were to play seasons with each other, the MLB team would come out on top more times than not. I think even the Tigers or the Devil Rays would do well over in Japan.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by BeTheReds

I don't have any statistics or anything, but I am more inclined to believe that MLB was much better than the Negro Leagues during segregation for many reasons.

Okay, by sheer numbers yes, you are probably right. I would not say much better, but maybe the Negro league was a AAA level league versus the Major Leagues, many sports historians believe that a great majority of the black baseball players coul dhave played in the MLB at the time of segregation and actual believe that the best players in the history of baseball were in fact in the Negro League versus the Major Leagues, the perfect example of this is Satchel Paige.

Originally Posted by BeTheReds

Next, the Japanese League is NOT on par with MLB.

Again, I will agree, I was thinking of MLB as a whole, including A, AA, and AAA leagues. I have heard that japanese baseball is also on par with Triple A talent.

What that does not mean though is that Matsui was playing in a lower tier league does not mean that he should be discounted from being able to win the Rookie of the year award. If Joe Schmo from Triple A Alebecurque came up to the majors he is eligible to win the award, no matter how many years he spent in Triple A.

Matsui got jobbed becuase of these writers that have never put on a jock in their lives and feel that their pitiful existence is somehow justified by saying that this man played in a professional league, thus is not a rookie.

[BeTheReds]

Originally Posted by Danny

Okay, by sheer numbers yes, you are probably right. I would not say much better, but maybe the Negro league was a AAA level league versus the Major Leagues, many sports historians believe that a great majority of the black baseball players coul dhave played in the MLB at the time of segregation and actual believe that the best players in the history of baseball were in fact in the Negro League versus the Major Leagues, the perfect example of this is Satchel Paige.

Oh, definately, I won't deny that individual players IN the Negro Leagues such as Satchel Paige would be able to play with the likes of Ruth and Gherig, but I was talking about the skill level of the average MLB player in comparison with that of a Negro League player. The MLB player probably made more money, and lived a much more comfortable life in comparison. That alone can affect the way someone plays. Now take into account that an MLB team probably had lots of cool training facilities and special doctors and everything. I don't know much about the Negro League per say, but I won't believe that the majority of the Negro Leaguers could have played in MLB. Maybe the top 33% I'd believe.

Again, I will agree, I was thinking of MLB as a whole, including A, AA, and AAA leagues. I have heard that japanese baseball is also on par with Triple A talent.

There isn't really any way to measure that. I'd disagree and say that Japanese Baseball is better than Triple A, but not as good as MLB. Also Japanese Baseball's highest level has only 12 teams, whereas triple A has 30, meaning there will be a higher concentration of talent among Japanese teams. Also the triple A rosters change all the time with many players being promoted and demoted for various reasons, leaving team chemistry out of whack. Then take into account that one of the teams in the league is the Yomiuri Giants, which are the equivalent of the New York Yankees, buying all the talent with rediculous amounts of cash. And all other teams in the central league need to play against the Giants. I think Japanese baseball is a little better than AAA.

What that does not mean though is that Matsui was playing in a lower tier league does not mean that he should be discounted from being able to win the Rookie of the year award. If Joe Schmo from Triple A Alebecurque came up to the majors he is eligible to win the award, no matter how many years he spent in Triple A.

Hey man, I agree with you there. Since MLB hasn't changed the rules, Matsui IS a rookie, thus those people who didn't even put him on the ballot are at fault. A better way for their voices to be heard would be not to vote at all rather than giving it to someone less deserving.

[mrazntre]

I think their numbers were about the same right? But Matsui probably had more of an impact playing with thte Yanks... plus with his homers in the WS .. . . .. that should probably have given him the edge.