Saddam’s sons killed in U.S. raid [Archive]

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deez nuts

07-22-2003, 05:49 PM

NBC, MSNBC AND NEWS SERVICES

July 23 —   Saddam Hussein’s fugitive sons Odai and Qusai were killed Tuesday during a raid on a mansion in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, the commander of allied forces in Iraq said. Gunfire and explosions erupted in Baghdad as Iraqis celebrated the news.

ARMY LT. GEN. Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of allied military operations in Iraq, said at a news conference Tuesday night in Baghdad that four Iraqis were killed in a fierce six-hour gunbattle that broke out when U.S. troops arrived to search the house, which reportedly belonged to a cousin of Saddam.
      
Without saying how, Sanchez said “multiple sources” had confirmed that the brothers were among the four dead people.
      
“We’re certain that Odai and Qusai were killed today,” Sanchez said. “The bodies are in a condition where you could identify them.”
      
U.S. officials told NBC News separately on condition of anonymity that senior Iraqi figures in U.S. custody had positively identified the brothers after their bodies were taken to Baghdad. Old bullet wounds further cemented the identification of Odai Hussein, who was shot 17 times and badly wounded in an assassination attempt in 1996.

How Saddam's sons were identified
      
The two other casualties were a teenage boy — possibly Qusai’s 14-year-old son, Mustapha, who was known to travel with him — and a man who could be a bodyguard, U.S. officials said. Sanchez said he could not confirm those reports.
      
The house was badly damaged, and its roof caved in after it was apparently hit by a missile. U.S. Central Command said in a statement Wednesday morning that four coalition soldiers were being treated for undisclosed injuries. Some civilians appeared to have been caught in the cross-fire, and several were taken to a hospital.
      
Sanchez would not speculate on what impact the deaths would have on security in Iraq, where U.S. troops have been the target of almost daily attacks. But the brothers were below only Saddam himself in importance to the regime, and their capture or elimination was a key goal of U.S. postwar operations.  

The White House said in a statement that it was “pleased” that the brothers were dead. “Over the period of many years, these two individuals were responsible for countless atrocities committed against the Iraqi people and they can no longer cast a shadow of hate on Iraq,” it said.

http://msnbc.com/news/870749.asp

thaite

07-22-2003, 05:53 PM

Yup.

Good.

mr. x

07-22-2003, 06:11 PM

burn baby burn!

hooligan

07-22-2003, 07:08 PM

that probably means that saddam is still alive too.

rakovlam

07-22-2003, 07:28 PM

James Taranto: "What better way to win hearts and minds than by killing hearts and clubs"

Splat, now for their unmuslim funeral... oink oink.

Emperor_Mike

07-22-2003, 08:31 PM

First Idi Amin and now these two. All in all, excellent news for the world.

moschikat

07-22-2003, 10:13 PM

First thing that comes to mind is - hey! What a great time for them to be killed off!! Oh! By the way - we still haven't found any weapons of mass distruction  . . .

"Wag the Dog" . . . i tell you!! It's a conspiracy!!!

ism

07-22-2003, 11:27 PM

Good news.  Hopefully they will find Saddam soon.  And Usama bin Laden.

Emperor_Mike

07-23-2003, 02:06 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ism @ Jul 22 2003, 10:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Good news. Hopefully they will find Saddam soon. And Usama bin Laden. [/b][/quote]
Saddam: perhaps. Osama: I don't know. That man's a slippery one.

ism

07-23-2003, 06:51 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Emperor_Mike @ Jul 23 2003, 05:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Saddam: perhaps. Osama: I don't know. That man's a slippery one.[/b][/quote]
624 days and counting (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN010917.html)...

pfc beansprout

07-23-2003, 08:23 AM

wow....guess that means were doin well over there in iraq...killin saddam's seed will surely make the people love us more....

thaite

07-23-2003, 02:28 PM

You gotta win 'em over one Iraqi at a time.

I'll bet the guy who's getting $30 million reward is happy with us.

armchair activist

07-23-2003, 10:36 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moschikat @ Jul 22 2003, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>First thing that comes to mind is - hey! What a great time for them to be killed off!! Oh! By the way - we still haven't found any weapons of mass distruction . . .

"Wag the Dog" . . . i tell you!! It's a conspiracy!!![/b][/quote]
Isn't it odd that no effort was made to take these guys alive ?
These guys were really bad people , but don't tell me they could not have been taken alive, and brought to justice.

Could it be that taking them alive and bringing them to justice could make things complicated and politically embarrasing for some people in power. How convenient, now no one will ever hear what they have to say since they won't be telling any tales. And not giving them a chance to surrender and just "doing" them, isn't that a violation of some code of conduct somewhere?

Just my 2 cents.

Emperor_Mike

07-23-2003, 10:47 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (armchair activist @ Jul 23 2003, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moschikat @ Jul 22 2003, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>First thing that comes to mind is - hey! What a great time for them to be killed off!! Oh! By the way - we still haven't found any weapons of mass distruction . . .

"Wag the Dog" . . . i tell you!! It's a conspiracy!!![/b][/quote]
Isn't it odd that no effort was made to take these guys alive ?
These guys were really bad people , but don't tell me they could not have been taken alive, and brought to justice.

Could it be that taking them alive and bringing them to justice could make things complicated and politically embarrasing for some people in power. How convenient, now no one will ever hear what they have to say since they won't be telling any tales. And not giving them a chance to surrender and just "doing" them, isn't that a violation of some code of conduct somewhere?

Just my 2 cents. [/b][/quote]
I'm sure an opportunity was present for the two to give themselves up, so we mustn't go looking for conspiracies. It's likely the brothers pretty much had their minds made up to die fighting rather than be captured and brought to trial for crimes against humanity. If it's skeletons in the closet you're looking for, it's the other Hussein you'd be wanting.

Faithless

07-23-2003, 11:40 PM

Ahhh, but how do we know these two were not John Stossel and John Travolta?

hooligan

07-24-2003, 10:03 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChottoMatte @ Jul 23 2003, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ahhh, but how do we know these two were not John Stossel and John Travolta? [/b][/quote]
or john tesh or elton john?

kimpossible

07-24-2003, 10:31 AM

They have pictures of one corpse that automatically loads when you go to Yahoo. Pretty gross.

rakovlam

07-24-2003, 12:36 PM

And not giving them a chance to surrender and just "doing" them, isn't that a violation of some code of conduct somewhere?

Nope.  It was legal for them to fry like they did.  It did not violate the executive order on assassination and it did not violate any international law the UN happens to evoke.  So, who's posting the pictures of Queasy and eBay?

pfc beansprout

07-24-2003, 01:16 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rakovlam @ Jul 24 2003, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Nope. It was legal for them to fry like they did. It did not violate the executive order on assassination and it did not violate any international law the UN happens to evoke. So, who's posting the pictures of Queasy and eBay? [/b][/quote]
~is that right? what about what happened about a year and a half ago in afgan...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-11...en-attack_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-11-07-yemen-attack_x.htm)

-you don't recall we sent a fuckin missile through a fuckin car???

oh, and btw, your attempts at 'humor' regarding this morbid situation is not even fuckin funny...get a life...why u hatin on the dead?

achtungbaby

07-24-2003, 01:52 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pfc beansprout @ Jul 24 2003, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> oh, and btw, your attempts at 'humor' regarding this morbid situation is not even fuckin funny...get a life...why u hatin on the dead? [/b][/quote]
You know, I don't know much about the sons so I kinda have to agree with you.  Ever since news of this broke, the headlines have been plastered everywhere to kinda glorify how the U.S. military succeeded in its goal...

...which was what again?  Can someone tell me why we were in Iraq, and why we're still there, when U.S. soldiers are dying at a daily rate?

Emperor_Mike

07-24-2003, 02:05 PM

Let's calm down before nerves get even more frayed, yes? :) Anyway, the fact that two more monsters like Uday and Qusay are dead is good news for the world in general. However, publishing the photographs is rather morbid and in bad taste, really. But the Iraqi people wanted proof so it was given to them and the overexposure is largely the doing of global media.

What I'm wary of is the possibility of further retaliatory strikes and the news seems to have done its job today by reporting a further three American soldiers killed in action. Hopefully, these attacks will die down soon and only time will tell if the deaths of the Hussein heirs will alleviate the situation or result in even more dire consequences. This victory of sorts comes at a good time when morale is being sapped and troops are being picked off on an average of one a day. If the US can bring about the touted social and economic reforms/reconstruction and then leave immediately after the job is done, these developments could very well lead to a more "successful" Iraq in the long run.

achtungbaby

07-24-2003, 03:38 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Emperor_Mike @ Jul 24 2003, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Let's calm down before nerves get even more frayed, yes? :) Anyway, the fact that two more monsters like Uday and Qusay are dead is good news for the world in general. However, publishing the photographs is rather morbid and in bad taste, really. But the Iraqi people wanted proof so it was given to them and the overexposure is largely the doing of global media.

What I'm wary of is the possibility of further retaliatory strikes and the news seems to have done its job today by reporting a further three American soldiers killed in action. Hopefully, these attacks will die down soon and only time will tell if the deaths of the Hussein heirs will alleviate the situation or result in even more dire consequences. This victory of sorts comes at a good time when morale is being sapped and troops are being picked off on an average of one a day. If the US can bring about the touted social and economic reforms/reconstruction and then leave immediately after the job is done, these developments could very well lead to a more "successful" Iraq in the long run. [/b][/quote]
Still not an answer to my question:)  Why were we in Iraq?  Why are Hussein's sons dead again?

Karma is a big huge biyatch.  Someday we're gonna probably have to pay for this.

Faithless

07-24-2003, 05:11 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (achtungbaby @ Jul 24 2003, 02:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Karma is a big huge biyatch. Someday we're gonna probably have to pay for this. [/b][/quote]
We are.  This war and the enforcement effort has raised the deficit sky higher.  :frown:

rakovlam

07-24-2003, 05:21 PM

Karma is a big huge biyatch. Someday we're gonna probably have to pay for this. 

Well, I'm still waiting for my check. I can't believe there are people who took Sheryl Crow's "karmic retributions" advice seriously.

Emperor_Mike

07-24-2003, 05:24 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (achtungbaby @ Jul 24 2003, 02:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Emperor_Mike @ Jul 24 2003, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Let's calm down before nerves get even more frayed, yes? :) Anyway, the fact that two more monsters like Uday and Qusay are dead is good news for the world in general. However, publishing the photographs is rather morbid and in bad taste, really. But the Iraqi people wanted proof so it was given to them and the overexposure is largely the doing of global media.

What I'm wary of is the possibility of further retaliatory strikes and the news seems to have done its job today by reporting a further three American soldiers killed in action. Hopefully, these attacks will die down soon and only time will tell if the deaths of the Hussein heirs will alleviate the situation or result in even more dire consequences. This victory of sorts comes at a good time when morale is being sapped and troops are being picked off on an average of one a day. If the US can bring about the touted social and economic reforms/reconstruction and then leave immediately after the job is done, these developments could very well lead to a more "successful" Iraq in the long run. [/b][/quote]
Still not an answer to my question:) Why were we in Iraq? Why are Hussein's sons dead again?

Karma is a big huge biyatch. Someday we're gonna probably have to pay for this. [/b][/quote]
Oh! You're addressing this to me? Alright then.

To be perfectly frank I'm in the same boat as most other people with regard to why the United States is in Iraq in the first place (the boat being the "S.S. Muddled Reasoning & Possible Involvement of Ulterior Motives.") I would think that my previous posts on this matter would've made clear my standpoint on the issue, but I suppose I can always reiterate.

I've always been opposed to war on the grounds that the reasons behind the conflict were never clear to begin with. First it was weapons of mass destruction, then it was the prospect of Saddam Hussein having a weapons of mass destruction program, and now...well...I don't know. Now it's as though the White House is making it up as they go along while soldiers die on a daily basis. Had George W. Bush been more upfront on his casus belli then perhaps there would've been more room to maneuver around and issues to debate upon. Instead Washington, with London's help, took what essentially was faulty intelligence, packaged it, and sold it to the American public and the world (unwittingly or otherwise, it's too early to say.) There really was no cause for this conflict. You can argue on humanitarian grounds, but one can always counter that if human rights violations warranted military intervention in Iraq, why can't the same principles be applied to Africa where things are many times worse? Weapons of Mass Destruction? While American troops are fighting among the sand dunes of the Middle East, Pyongyang is getting closer and closer to obtaining nuclear arms and, in fact, may already possess one or two.

Nothing in this war fits as it should. For every argument in support of the conflict another one can be found stating the contrary. At least with Gulf War I, Bush Sr. was given the casus belli by Baghdad's aggression in Kuwait. But in Gulf War II there was no such provocation. While the situation is far from simple, I find that nearly 100% of all the people I know and have met who favour this conflict think of all the events that have transpired to date in black and white (i.e. clear-cut and free of the complexities usually associated with foreign affairs.) Then again, not everyone can handle the subtle nuances of geopolitics and in some cases, these things simply prove to be too difficult for most to grasp.

mr. x

07-24-2003, 07:38 PM