Let's get political. [Archive] - Yellowworld Forums

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BeTheReds

07-16-2003, 12:24 AM

I've been hearing lots of different takes on this. Some people say that Asian Issues are hapa issues, others will say that Asians only want hapas to believe that so that they can use hapas' numbers to increase political clout. I am somewhere in between. What are issues that hapas face that overlap issues the "Asian-American Community" has and what issues are entirely seperate? Is this question even answerable? Most of hapaness is about discovering yourself or trying to get acceptance with one group or another, either that or talking about how unique you are. It seems to me like AA issues are about the media, affirmative action, and interracial dating disparities, as well as glass celiengs at work places, perpetual foereign-ness and many other forms of oppression and discrimination. Are there any cases where hapa issues and aa ones conflict?

DISCUZZ!

AliBabaIncorporated

07-16-2003, 03:15 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Jul 16 2003, 02:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I've been hearing lots of different takes on this. Some people say that Asian Issues are hapa issues, others will say that Asians only want hapas to believe that so that they can use hapas' numbers to increase political clout. I am somewhere in between. What are issues that hapas face that overlap issues the "Asian-American Community" has and what issues are entirely seperate? Is this question even answerable? Most of hapaness is about discovering yourself or trying to get acceptance with one group or another, either that or talking about how unique you are. It seems to me like AA issues are about the media, affirmative action, and interracial dating disparities, as well as glass celiengs at work places, perpetual foereign-ness and many other forms of oppression and discrimination. Are there any cases where hapa issues and aa ones conflict?

DISCUZZ! [/b][/quote]
Well, as for the issues you mentioned:

Dating: it's hard to know whether hapas are affected by any kind of interracial dating disparity, since thanks to Susan Graham (yet another non-multiracial making policies affecting mixed people) and her little mixed son's disgustingly coached testimony before the Congress, government published statistics on marriage lump all people who checked more than one box into this "two or more races" category.

Media: attempts to complain about the portrayal of mixed people in the media (e.g. the old stereotype of the tragic schizophrenic) are usually met with amusement by hapas.

Glass Ceiling: not sure. It depends what the causes behind the glass ceiling are. If it's just a matter of many AAs having a different style of socialization than whites (arising, for example, from Asian-American self-segregation during high school and not having many close friends of other race) and so not getting on with them so well, it could certainly be an issue also affecting hapas in the future.

Affirmative action: even less sure. I'm not even sure of the reasons why AAs support it, except as some method of weakening white people ...

The overlap usually comes in the form of identity issues, relating to the ancestral culture, etc.

Walrus

07-16-2003, 10:06 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Jul 15 2003, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I've been hearing lots of different takes on this.  Some people say that Asian Issues are hapa issues, others will say that Asians only want hapas to believe that so that they can use hapas' numbers to increase political clout.  I am somewhere in between.  What are issues that hapas face that overlap issues the "Asian-American Community" has and what issues are entirely seperate?  Is this question even answerable?  Most of hapaness is about discovering yourself or trying to get acceptance with one group or another, either that or talking about how unique you are.  It seems to me like AA issues are about the media, affirmative action, and interracial dating disparities, as well as glass celiengs at work places, perpetual foereign-ness and many other forms of oppression and discrimination.  Are there any cases where hapa issues and aa ones conflict?

DISCUZZ![/b][/quote]
Hey, I just realized you're the guy who did that Hapa Test. Thanks, I enjoyed doing it :).

As for Hapa issues versus Asian, they are different, but I think there are more variations among Asians. For one, I'm Asian, but culturally I'm mixed, born in Canada, with dutch/indonesian in my parents. As a consequence, I have a different asian experience than most.

Hapas generally have less people they can relate to, so I imagine there can be a period of identity problems at one point or another.

I'm Asian, and I have had parallel problems to Happas and not Asians. I don't really feel that accepted by Asian people I know, which is a huge reason as to why I hang around mostly white people, and some eurasians...more of a raceless crowd. The Asians I know are like me for the most part, although most are still more culturally asian than I am.

Hanging in a group of Asians, aside from familly, I feel awkward, I almost feel like the white guy in the crowd. Weird to say the least, but I'm sure happas can relate to this. I also can't relate as well to Asians at times, generally they are too quiet for me. Of course the ones like me, who are not really culturally asian, I can relate to, but I'm talking the more typical Asians, who have some culture in them.

To top it off, I often get the comments that I don't look Chinese, or for that matter any particular monorace. Some of my friends call me half, or just white...

There's my perspective, and I think this parallels happa issues in many ways... the one thing I experience that is Asian is Two asian parents, mind you they both are culturally mixed and also have a-typical asian features in their familly.

I'm sure that the typical Asian deals with what you talk about, political issues more so... but I'm just giving an example showing that some of us Asians are more like happas than full Asians.

If you want more confusion, just add the fact that I feel like a happa, who is not :). I don't even want to claim to be one, but if someone would force me to categorize what fits my experience best, it's definetely happa. I realize this even more when I talk to my half friends. Personally, I just try to avoid thinking too much about what I am. It's only others who force me to think about it, generally Asian people who ask me what I am.

BeTheReds

07-16-2003, 06:11 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Walrus @ Jul 17 2003, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Hey, I just realized you're the guy who did that Hapa Test. Thanks, I enjoyed doing it :).

[/b][/quote]
Thanks for the reply, yea that was me. I wish I knew how to program Java better so I could make the test more like the alllooksame test.

Thanks for replying, but you didn't really address politics at all. You just talked about your experiences and history and how unique you are. That's a typical hapa response to anything, so I officially award you the title of honorary hapa.

But in all seriousness, where do hapa politics and "Asian-American Community" politics overlap.

What spawned this thread was when someone said he didn't consider Keanu Reeves and Russell Wong as Asian. So I was thinking afterwards, "What was that political issue you wanted me to support you on, as a fellow Asian? Since you don't consider me Asian, how will my hard work to achieve your political goal benefit me?"

It seems to me that the political "AA community" conveniently decides when hapas are Asian, and when they are not according to what political view they are trying to argue. So if there are times when hapas fit their needs and when hapas don't fit their needs this must be a result in both overlapping and conflicting issues, and I wanted to get a clear idea on what these issues are.

YuheiCarreau

07-16-2003, 07:12 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Jul 16 2003, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Walrus @ Jul 17 2003, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Hey, I just realized you're the guy who did that Hapa Test.  Thanks, I enjoyed doing it :).

[/b][/quote]
Thanks for the reply, yea that was me. I wish I knew how to program Java better so I could make the test more like the alllooksame test.

Thanks for replying, but you didn't really address politics at all. You just talked about your experiences and history and how unique you are. That's a typical hapa response to anything, so I officially award you the title of honorary hapa. [/b][/quote]
I think he is 2nd-gen Hapa.

BeTheReds

07-16-2003, 07:19 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ Jul 17 2003, 11:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Jul 16 2003, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Walrus @ Jul 17 2003, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Hey, I just realized you're the guy who did that Hapa Test. Thanks, I enjoyed doing it :).

[/b][/quote]
Thanks for the reply, yea that was me. I wish I knew how to program Java better so I could make the test more like the alllooksame test.

Thanks for replying, but you didn't really address politics at all. You just talked about your experiences and history and how unique you are. That's a typical hapa response to anything, so I officially award you the title of honorary hapa. [/b][/quote]
I think he is 2nd-gen Hapa. [/b][/quote]
so both his parents are hapas?

So then he's a hapa. So why is he saying he isn't?

YuheiCarreau

07-16-2003, 07:23 PM

My main political goal as a Hapa is to be recognized as more than just a footnote to whichever race I "look more like". I'm not a subset of Asians or Japanese just because more people assume I'm Asian than White.

I feel that being able to mark two boxes on the census and other documents is a big step in this direction; however I gather from AliBaba's post that there is something wrong with the way it's currently being done.

There is definitely a common "Hapa experience", otherwise BTR and AliBaba wouldn't always be complaining about "typical 'unique' Hapas" :P Little details are different depending on the races of the parents, but basically I think there should be more evaluation of the mixed-race childhood (preferably done by a group of multiracial people, not monoracial parents). This isn't something I would leave up to the government, but I think it's a political aim all the same.

I also wish that there were more positive and diverse depictions of mixed people in art and entertainment - not to mention accurate (I just watched a movie where Tia Carrera played a Japanese / Black mix, what-fucking-ever). It's pretty fucked up that multiracial characters are almost always played by monoracial actors and multiracial characters often are pigeonholed into monoracial roles. I plan to form a group called "Was the Milkman Asian?!" to combat this problem :D .

YuheiCarreau

07-16-2003, 07:25 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Jul 16 2003, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ Jul 17 2003, 11:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Jul 16 2003, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Walrus @ Jul 17 2003, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Hey, I just realized you're the guy who did that Hapa Test. Thanks, I enjoyed doing it :).

[/b][/quote]
Thanks for the reply, yea that was me. I wish I knew how to program Java better so I could make the test more like the alllooksame test.

Thanks for replying, but you didn't really address politics at all. You just talked about your experiences and history and how unique you are. That's a typical hapa response to anything, so I officially award you the title of honorary hapa. [/b][/quote]
I think he is 2nd-gen Hapa. [/b][/quote]
so both his parents are hapas?

So then he's a hapa. So why is he saying he isn't? [/b][/quote]
How should I know, damn it, I'm not a mind reader!!!

Walrus

07-16-2003, 07:32 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Jul 16 2003, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thanks for the reply, yea that was me.  I wish I knew how to program Java better so I could make the test more like the alllooksame test.

Thanks for replying, but you didn't really address politics at all.  You just talked about your experiences and history and how unique you are.  That's a typical hapa response to anything, so I officially award you the title of honorary hapa.

But in all seriousness, where do hapa politics and "Asian-American Community" politics overlap.

What spawned this thread was when someone said he didn't consider Keanu Reeves and Russell Wong as Asian.  So I was thinking afterwards, "What was that political issue you wanted me to support you on, as a fellow Asian?  Since you don't consider me Asian, how will my hard work to achieve your political goal benefit me?"

It seems to me that the political "AA community" conveniently decides when hapas are Asian, and when they are not according to what political view they are trying to argue.  So if there are times when hapas fit their needs and when hapas don't fit their needs this must be a result in both overlapping and conflicting issues, and I wanted to get a clear idea on what these issues are.[/b][/quote]
hahah... true, damnit, I usually harp on people who rant like I did and get off topic :P.

anyway, I'm in agreement with your confusion over the Asian community.

Sometimes Asians won't regard a happa as Asian at all, I figure with Keanu Reeves a lot has to do with his physical looks. If people can't even recognize that much asian in him, he can hardly represent an Asian community. I also read on a forum for Asian women, how they did not feel comfortable with Kristina Kreuk representing Asian females, since she did not have enough Asian looks in her. And what about Bruce Lee? Isn't he 1/4 German? If that's wrong then I can't use him as an example, otherwise a lot of Asians pride themselves on his achievements, and yet he's not full Asian.

After some thought, I think you're right, Asians generally only decide when Happas have any Asian in them, when it's to their advantage.

On the happa side, I have read many a time a person turning to their white side because of the negativity they associated with their Asian culture. Like Happas pride themselves on the positives of both of their sides, but completely ignore anything that could be detrimental to their image.

All in all I think there is one common theme, each side plays by the rule of what is advantageous to themselves. Asians are a little more communal, whereas Happas are not quite as united as a "race", some can just slip by and pretend they are Asian or White, if they happen to be the type who physically inherited one side strongly.

Personally, I judge someone by their culture more so than technical status of race. If a happa is going to acknowledge their Asian side, than they can be just as Asian as a full Asian. I'm willing to even accept a white person as "asian", if they are not just in some fetish land... I mean, what about caucasian people growing up in Asia.

This is a hard topic :blink:

On the other note, if you want to make a site more like allllooksame.com I could help... I do a lot of webdesign. Let me know.

BeTheReds

07-16-2003, 07:32 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ Jul 17 2003, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
How should I know, damn it, I'm not a mind reader!!! [/b][/quote]
What? You didn't get any hapa powers? Mind reading is the very least we are all equipped with.

Maybe you need to visit both of our worlds more often so that you can get the special powers from the other one.

coagulated fat

07-17-2003, 12:06 AM

This is a difficult question to answer, so sorry if I get off topic or babble nonsense. :P

I think the difference is that while asians have one culture to defend, hapas have two or more. Therefore it isn't as easy to defend one's "sides" because the AA community often wants to demonize or cast white people in the role as oppressor, which sort of alienates some hapas... in a way we are often forced to separate our political/racial views from AAs simply because a white-devil approach turns away the many hapas who are part white. THe desire to support a minority race's progress in america (AAs) while feeling protective towards the dominant race is an issue unique to hapas (white-mixed ones, anyway), and I think this is what leads to some resentment of AAs.

Another issue I can think of is the problem of "proving" one's membership in a certain race. Like Yuhei said, the right to check more than one box and not be racially categorized with who you "identify" with... when what they most likely mean is which of your parents you look more like. The right to not be forced to be "authentically" one race with your other one(s) as a side-note, whether in the eyes of various institutions or just socially, hanging out with asians or nonasians.

SunWuKong

07-17-2003, 07:02 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Walrus @ Jul 16 2003, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> dutch/indonesian in my parents. [/b][/quote]
are you michelle branch?

Walrus

07-17-2003, 09:11 AM

hehe... I think I Need to clear confusion. I meant culturally there's dutch/indo/chinese in my parents, not physically. Well actually, it's possible, since their background is hazy and looks are far from typical, but for the record they are not happa...

On a similar note to this thread, I was doing this "photo" shoot for a magazine called "banana" mag, basically for asians who are westernized. One of the people in the shoot was a happa, so I guess in that sense there's an acceptance. ALTHOUGH, the photographer asked her on the phone if she looked at all Asian.

Unfortunately, ever since then, the magazine has been on hold... and I was looking forward to seeing myself :D

thaite

07-17-2003, 12:07 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ Jul 16 2003, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think he is 2nd-gen Hapa. [/b][/quote]
You mean quapa ? :lol:

BeTheReds

07-17-2003, 05:35 PM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (coagulated fat @ Jul 17 2003, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>   THe desire to support a minority race's progress in america (AAs) while feeling protective towards the dominant race is an issue unique to hapas (white-mixed ones, anyway). [/b][/quote]
I think you are very right.  Especially because all the white people that are closest to us are naturally the least racist and some of the most open minded people there are.. usually.  I see when people talk about evil whites and how they have oppressed everyone for so long, and I simply can't imagine my mother doing that.  My mother is far from racist and I could list the many ways how but this thread is not long enough.  But when aktivists just hate on whites, it's like they are talking about my mom.