Is it possible to get SHOT through a door?

[Uncle Tat]

Say someone is knocking on your door. You open the peephole and look out.

And suddenly you're SHOT.

Anyone familiar with the ballistics of firearms that can answer this question? Is it possible to get shot through a door?

I mean this would be a GREAT thing to do if you're a sick fuck. I mean just imaging the shock someone would experience as they suddenly feel a big hole in their stomach from doing such a routine thing like answering the door.

[Fireblade]

You'd need something like a shotgun. I dunno about handguns, unless they're like Desert Eagles, but I think they tend to be lodged within the door, instead of your stomach.

[angel nympho]

I'm sure it's possible. I've heard stories on the news about innocent people getting caught in the crossfire of gun shootouts... through the walls of their homes...

[BaiginLong]

yes but it definitely needs to be a high calibur gun
also depends on how strong or what your door is made of (duh)
9mm is a def no
.45s, mags, deagles, and the like most likely will
shotguns well depends on the guage I think but i may be wrong (never was much of a fan for those things in real life)
however silencers may screw with the bullet speed a bit
assault rifles... well do you even need to ask
submachineguns maybe... depends on caibur and whatnot
machineguns well yeah...

onto the bullets
most sharp point bullets will go through (all sniper rifles)
hollowpoints are very iffy
jacketed hollowpoints well that may be a diff story

[ism]

Originally posted by Uncle Tat@Jun 7 2003, 02:42 AM
I mean this would be a GREAT thing to do if you're a sick fuck. I mean just imaging the shock someone would experience as they suddenly feel a big hole in their stomach from doing such a routine thing like answering the door.
Um. I think it would be shocking for the average person if they were shot in any situation, even moreso if there was no causality. D.C. Sniper(s) has this door-answering situation beat.

[YuheiCarreau]

Is anyone else hoping that Tat lives very, very far away from you?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

why not just use a smaller-caliber weapon and shoot them through the peephole, which is the weakest structure in the whole door in the first place? Proving once again that a door is no obstacle to shooting someone in the face :lol:

[rakovlam]

Does this question have anything to do with the gaming physics of say... Counter-Strike or Day of Defeat?

[mrazntre]

why even bother with the peephole, step to the right or left and shoot them through the side lights or window.

[Faithless]

Doesn't everyone answer the door with a kevlar vest on? :confused:

[angelwiththesword]

a sidearm of .44 or over will be guarenteed to go through any door.

if the slug is teflon coated, a sidearm of maybe a .38 could go through a door and into a person.

a shotgun itself isn't powerful in that it has much kick, but in that it is a scattergun, shooting many pellets at a time. chances are, some of those pellets are going to pierce through the door, but most of them will just shred up the door a bit.

a GAU-8 Avenger Cannon with armor piercing incindiary rounds could probably demolish the door, put a hole through your back the size of a basketball, and then go through the rest of your apartement and through several cars' engine blocks before finally stopping.
gots to love the tank-killers. one shot from the Avenger Cannon on an A-10 Warthog can demolish a tank.

regarding hollowpoints, regardless of the calibre of the weapon, those won't go through doors. they are designed to shatter on impact, specifically for people.
eg: if i shot you in the chest with a .38 hollowpoint, the bullet would enter your chest, shatter when it hits the breastplate and then shred your heart into bits.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

damn we are running out of ideas for new threads

[tvbdude]

wow, some of you know alot about weapons

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by angelwiththesword@Jun 7 2003, 08:44 PM
a sidearm of .44 or over will be guarenteed to go through any door.

if the slug is teflon coated, a sidearm of maybe a .38 could go through a door and into a person.

a shotgun itself isn't powerful in that it has much kick, but in that it is a scattergun, shooting many pellets at a time. chances are, some of those pellets are going to pierce through the door, but most of them will just shred up the door a bit.

a GAU-8 Avenger Cannon with armor piercing incindiary rounds could probably demolish the door, put a hole through your back the size of a basketball, and then go through the rest of your apartement and through several cars' engine blocks before finally stopping.
gots to love the tank-killers. one shot from the Avenger Cannon on an A-10 Warthog can demolish a tank.

regarding hollowpoints, regardless of the calibre of the weapon, those won't go through doors. they are designed to shatter on impact, specifically for people.
eg: if i shot you in the chest with a .38 hollowpoint, the bullet would enter your chest, shatter when it hits the breastplate and then shred your heart into bits.
pretty much some of what I said with more detail and throwing in an overkill weapon
:D

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by tvbdude@Jun 7 2003, 10:42 PM
wow, some of you know alot about weapons
yeah well when you have to go through a period when guns are your best friends and worst enemies at the same time you get to know them pretty well
anyone in the military, is a vet, or grew up in the ghetto can relate

[mr. x]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Jun 7 2003, 11:07 AM
Is anyone else hoping that Tat lives very, very far away from you?
yeah dude, im surprised yuhei here is the FIRST person to question his sanity

"hi i was wondering what the best rifle to use for assasinating the president"

"an m190 barett light (civilian model) should do the trick not to mention leave no air left in old georgie's head hehe"

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by mr. x@Jun 8 2003, 01:06 AM
"hi i was wondering what the best rifle to use for assasinating the president"

"an m190 barett light (civilian model) should do the trick not to mention leave no air left in old georgie's head hehe"
noooo if you wanna do the job right you need to have at least 5 men and 2 more to spot
maybe 3 to create a distraction or mess with the secret service just enough to get you an opening then you need to make sure your bullets are either hollowpoint (to make it harder to identify) or cryobullets and the gun...welll just get something really damn accurate and make sure that each sniper has only one bullet and a really good pair of gloves non finger prints period on the guns and either dispose of the guns after wards or take them with you on the exit
the art of assassin is not only making the kill but doing it silently and untracably
and one more note on assassinating the pres.
it's not possible any more after the addition of certain aspects of the security detail upgraded drastically
let's just say no one with even a harmful intent against the president can live very long if within his vicinity
this is from my ex who just happens to be part of that... "aspect"

[Emperor_Mike]

Why bother with guns? High explosives is the definite way to go.

Or poison gas. Or poisoned darts for that matter.

[BaiginLong]

Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jun 8 2003, 01:57 AM
Why bother with guns? High explosives is the definite way to go.

Or poison gas. Or poisoned darts for that matter.
if your talking about offing the pres then poison gas or high exp.losives would be the only way to go can't just be precise gotta kil everyone in a five mile radius to get a chance against the security detail but then you'd think they'd have a counter that kind of situation
they are the secret service you know

[Napoleon Chynamite]

nerds haha

[angelwiththesword]

normal people-repellant contains only 5% active chemical.
bear-repellant contains 95% active chemical, meaning that if you got sprayed in the face with it, it would cause some perminent damage and chronic pain.

these are just surface wounds, though. so if you were to solidify some of the bear repellant, and then make a slug out of it and shoot someone in the gut with it, it's more than likely that person will start foaming at the mouth in pain.
not to mention that since it's a non fatal shot, theyll suffer massive chronic pain for the rest of their lives.

[ren28]

I'd think it would depend on the door, caliber, gun, and type of bullet.

Obviously a steel door (yes they exist) would be incredibly hard to shoot through. I went camping last year and someone brought a 1" steel plate to shoot. We shot varios rounds at it and the only things that really put a dent in it were high powered rifle rounds. SS109 steel core (5.56mm from an AR15 with 20" barrel) busted in about 1/4"-1/3" while the 168gr boat tail hollow point from a sniper rifle (308WIN, 20" barrel) would drive about 1/2" into it. A barrett 50BMG would more than likely go through it without an armor piercing round.

On a normal door, I think many types of ammo would go through. Any high powered rifle would work. An AR15 would make short work on any normal door. At least a few 9mm rounds would definitely work. I can penetrate level IIIA armor with a certain type of steel core 9mm ammo and that should definitely work on a "normal" wooden door. A shotgun would need a sabot type slug. Buckshot would probably shatter weak doors but get stuck in really solid doors.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by BaiginLong@Jun 8 2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jun 8 2003, 01:57 AM
Why bother with guns? High explosives is the definite way to go.

Or poison gas. Or poisoned darts for that matter.
if your talking about offing the pres then poison gas or high exp.losives would be the only way to go can't just be precise gotta kil everyone in a five mile radius to get a chance against the security detail but then you'd think they'd have a counter that kind of situation
they are the secret service you know
Collateral damage. Hah!

Ever watched that movie? It's amusing in a non-amusing, rehashed, and sadly out of date sort of way that reeks of over-done ham. Plus it didn't have a good opening either, what, with the unfortunate occurance that was 9/11.

[Uncle Tat]

Originally posted by mr. x@Jun 8 2003, 02:06 AM
yeah dude, im surprised yuhei here is the FIRST person to question his sanity

"hi i was wondering what the best rifle to use for assasinating the president"

"an m190 barett light (civilian model) should do the trick not to mention leave no air left in old georgie's head hehe"
Hey I'm not psychotic. It's not so much that I want to kill people. It's just that I don't think stupid people deserve to live.

[tvbdude]

is there any way a normal civilian can get a silencer? I read on another board you have to write to the BATF.

[ren28]

Originally posted by tvbdude@Jun 8 2003, 09:56 PM
is there any way a normal civilian can get a silencer? I read on another board you have to write to the BATF.
It's impossible in some states. Check your local laws. packing.org has a good amount of gun information but I really don't see the need for a silencer if you are a civilian. You'd have to use subsonic ammo and it does not hit as hard. The silencer is also heavy.

[mr. x]

this reminds me of a korean music video where this hitman dude knocks and then this fat dude looks in the looking hole and the hitman "silences" the hole

[mr. x]

speaking of korean music videos, is it just me or do a lot of you agree that a lot of korean music videos are freudian in nature (lotsa gunplay amid the romance stuff)

[thaite]

I suggest you all back off from any 'assassinating the president' line of discussion.

[tvbdude]

Originally posted by thaite@Jun 9 2003, 02:16 AM
I suggest you all back off from any 'assassinating the president' line of discussion.
yea, you never know who's lurking around here :ph34r:

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by mr. x@Jun 8 2003, 10:15 PM
this reminds me of a korean music video where this hitman dude knocks and then this fat dude looks in the looking hole and the hitman "silences" the hole
I'm sure the whole peephole assassination thing was ripped off from John Woo's Hard Target starring (unfortunately) Jean Claude Van Damme way back when. :lol: :lol:

[kimpossible]

Not sure why everyone thinks the gun itself is the deciding factor, the round is just as, if not more, of a factor. Ammo isn't all the same. The slug can be of a harder or softer material and coated/uncoated, there's more factors but these are the common ones I know.

The best rounds for disrupting soft tissue are softer and travel slower, this is the most efficient for unarmored and unobstructed targets. If you have to pierce you want a slug of harder material travelling at a higher rate of speed in order to pierce. I'm not sure whether or not riflings (the grooves on the inside of the barrel) are of specific designs to spin the rounds faster. I know each rifling is unique which is why ballistics can trace a bullet fired by a specific gun, but the point of riflings is to put a 'spin' on the round much like a football is spun when thrown.

At a close range most ammo would pierce a wall. I sure as shit wouldn't want to be sitting on the other side of a wood door with even a .22 on the other side. Bullets can easily go through your intended target too, even if you hit who you want to hit you risk hitting others. To avoid this you can use safety rounds for home protection. I've never actually tested it by firing inside a house, but supposedly they don't go through walls or through your target. A bullet doesn't have to blow through someone and produce an exit wound in order to do massive damage. What it needs to do is have a lot of spread when it hits, acting like a big piece of shrapnel to disrupt your organs and throw the body into shock.

This isn't even taking into account the grain loaded into the round. To be honest, I'm not sure just how much of a factor this would have, but I know for just plain old target practice, i.e. I wasn't concerned about 'stopping power,' I used a really low grain.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by ren28@Jun 8 2003, 05:22 PM
I'd think it would depend on the door, caliber, gun, and type of bullet.

Obviously a steel door (yes they exist) would be incredibly hard to shoot through. I went camping last year and someone brought a 1" steel plate to shoot. We shot varios rounds at it and the only things that really put a dent in it were high powered rifle rounds. SS109 steel core (5.56mm from an AR15 with 20" barrel) busted in about 1/4"-1/3" while the 168gr boat tail hollow point from a sniper rifle (308WIN, 20" barrel) would drive about 1/2" into it. A barrett 50BMG would more than likely go through it without an armor piercing round.

On a normal door, I think many types of ammo would go through. Any high powered rifle would work. An AR15 would make short work on any normal door. At least a few 9mm rounds would definitely work. I can penetrate level IIIA armor with a certain type of steel core 9mm ammo and that should definitely work on a "normal" wooden door. A shotgun would need a sabot type slug. Buckshot would probably shatter weak doors but get stuck in really solid doors.
Marry me. :luv:

[ren28]

The rifling or twist in the barrel is there to stabilize the bullet. For example, there are various riflings available to an AR15 like 1-in-9, 1-in-8, etc. 1-in9 means there is one full twist in every 9" of the barrel. The grain is the weight of the bullet. If you go up and down in grains, it effects the barrel's ability to stabilize the bullets. Having more grains can allow for more energy at longer ranges. At 700 yards, a 308WIN 175gr will have more energy than a 168gr. There are a lot of different things one could do that would make small but noticable differences when it comes to shooting.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by ren28@Jun 9 2003, 10:23 AM
The grain is the weight of the bullet. If you go up and down in grains, it effects the barrel's ability to stabilize the bullets.
I meant gunpowder grain. Like this

The term "grain" is a measure of avoirdupois weight, and 7000 grains equals 1 pound. 437.5 grains equals one ounce.

In the United States, the grain is the most-used term to describe the weights of the powder charges and bullets used in ammunition nomenclature and reloading data.

The idea of "lighter/faster" vs. "heavier/slower" gets HOTLY debated in shooting circles, and the "conventional wisdom" modifies over time.

When I got into law enforcement in the late 1970's, lighter bullets at elevated velocities were all the rage, with fast expansion and energy transmission variously being described as the key to stopping power. This is sometimes called the "Super-Vel Theory" or similar things.

More recently this idea has been re-thought, and heavier bullets at resulting lower velocities in a given caliber are more often seen being used currently.

You sound kind of new to this aspect of the shooting venues--welcome aboard. There is a LOT of good info and very well-informed people on this board, and you will likely get a LOT of responses to your question.

You never answered me. Let's elope. We'll have a shotgun wedding.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jun 9 2003, 12:32 PM
The term "grain" is a measure of avoirdupois weight, and 7000 grains equals 1 pound. 437.5 grains equals one ounce.

In the United States, the grain is the most-used term to describe the weights of the powder charges and bullets used in ammunition nomenclature and reloading data.

The idea of "lighter/faster" vs. "heavier/slower" gets HOTLY debated in shooting circles, and the "conventional wisdom" modifies over time.

When I got into law enforcement in the late 1970's, lighter bullets at elevated velocities were all the rage, with fast expansion and energy transmission variously being described as the key to stopping power. This is sometimes called the "Super-Vel Theory" or similar things.

More recently this idea has been re-thought, and heavier bullets at resulting lower velocities in a given caliber are more often seen being used currently.

You sound kind of new to this aspect of the shooting venues--welcome aboard. There is a LOT of good info and very well-informed people on this board, and you will likely get a LOT of responses to your question.

You never answered me. Let's elope. We'll have a shotgun wedding.
Doesn't that involve you getting pregnant first?

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Jun 9 2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jun 9 2003, 12:32 PM


You never answered me. Let's elope. We'll have a shotgun wedding.
Doesn't that involve you getting pregnant first?
Oh no. I just want him to be my gun hunny. Ascend the ranks of the NRA together. It'd be like that one Simpsons episode where Homer gets a gun. We'll shoot the tops off of soda bottles to open them.

[ren28]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jun 9 2003, 11:32 AM
I meant gunpowder grain. Like this

The term "grain" is a measure of avoirdupois weight, and 7000 grains equals 1 pound. 437.5 grains equals one ounce.

In the United States, the grain is the most-used term to describe the weights of the powder charges and bullets used in ammunition nomenclature and reloading data.

The idea of "lighter/faster" vs. "heavier/slower" gets HOTLY debated in shooting circles, and the "conventional wisdom" modifies over time.

When I got into law enforcement in the late 1970's, lighter bullets at elevated velocities were all the rage, with fast expansion and energy transmission variously being described as the key to stopping power. This is sometimes called the "Super-Vel Theory" or similar things.

More recently this idea has been re-thought, and heavier bullets at resulting lower velocities in a given caliber are more often seen being used currently.

You sound kind of new to this aspect of the shooting venues--welcome aboard. There is a LOT of good info and very well-informed people on this board, and you will likely get a LOT of responses to your question.

You never answered me. Let's elope. We'll have a shotgun wedding.
Ah, you were talking about hand loading. That's a new topic altogether. Hand loading is generally used to increase accuracy rather than increase penetration. I'd use an FMJ, some sort of steel core or armor piercing round rather than add a few too many grains of powder, screw up accuracy and increase chamber pressures to an unsafe level.

Ok, let's go elope somewhere. :dance: Wait, you're married already. :ph34r:

[mr. x]

"Man shoots lover through the door"

ASSOCIATED NEWS (AN) - A disturbed mentally ill man shot his ex lover through the door as she looked through the keyhole to answer it. The man was frequenting the forums of a one yellowworld.org, taking suggestions as to what weapons to use. "He had more guns in his trunk then hands to carry 'em with" said the police officer at the scene. "Eventually he just settled with a sawed off shotgun and a .357 magnum, he ended up carrying enough ammo to start world war 3 but only had one real target, so he used the rest on himself." The man went by the monker "uncle tat"
-Blayson Jair, Associated News

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by ren28@Jun 9 2003, 02:54 PM
Ah, you were talking about hand loading. That's a new topic altogether. Hand loading is generally used to increase accuracy rather than increase penetration. I'd use an FMJ, some sort of steel core or armor piercing round rather than add a few too many grains of powder, screw up accuracy and increase chamber pressures to an unsafe level.

Ok, let's go elope somewhere. :dance: Wait, you're married already. :ph34r:
Ooh. So you can hand load to increase penetration with a steel core so you don't screw up accuracy and increase chamber pressure.

Fabulous, darling. *lights a cigarette*

[ren28]

Originally posted by mr. x@Jun 9 2003, 03:57 PM
"Man shoots lover through the door"

ASSOCIATED NEWS (AN) - A disturbed mentally ill man shot his ex lover through the door as she looked through the keyhole to answer it. The man was frequenting the forums of a one yellowworld.org, taking suggestions as to what weapons to use. "He had more guns in his trunk then hands to carry 'em with" said the police officer at the scene. "Eventually he just settled with a sawed off shotgun and a .357 magnum, he ended up carrying enough ammo to start world war 3 but only had one real target, so he used the rest on himself." The man went by the monker "uncle tat"
-Blayson Jair, Associated News
:lol:

Wait...

:blink:

[ren28]

Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Jun 9 2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by ren28@Jun 9 2003, 02:54 PM
Ah, you were talking about hand loading.  That's a new topic altogether.  Hand loading is generally used to increase accuracy rather than increase penetration.  I'd use an FMJ, some sort of steel core or armor piercing round rather than add a few too many grains of powder, screw up accuracy and increase chamber pressures to an unsafe level.

Ok, let's go elope somewhere.  :dance:  Wait, you're married already.  :ph34r:
Ooh. So you can hand load to increase penetration with a steel core so you don't screw up accuracy and increase chamber pressure.

Fabulous, darling. *lights a cigarette*
I hope it was as good for you as it was for me. :D

[lethal]

Tat, aren't you the same guy who asked "what if someone started killing forumers"?

Are you soliciting advice on how to kill us?

Man, I'm glad you don't know where I live.