Self-Loathing

[AngryABCGirl]

This was one for my xanga, because I was giving out BLT posters one of the producers gave me on Sunday night for to promote the movie which turned into something bitchy.

Some white girl said, "Oh it's a fob movie." And I was like, "You go to a school that's 70% Asian, it's Asian-American." And she still said it was a fob movie. Then JA guy whose known for being for the lack of a better word, "whitewashed" kept calling it a chink movie saying it sucked and it made no sense even though it could have been a documentary of our community. It's funny how people don't say these things to me outside of a classroom with a teacher and then run away.

Anyway:

Lately, I am starting to have real issues with people who are ashamed of their Ethnic culture or heritage.

Immigrant populations in the US are have and are going to only face even more problems in the US.

Today, mainstream America has extreme difficulties comprending different cultures and ethnic issues, as well has comprending that different cultures and ethnic issues doesn't make someone not as human or the same kind of human they are. We're all made of the same stuff and we all feel the same things and have the same needs, even if they look and are expressed differently.

In basic human traits, everyone is the same. So what don't we treat people that way, why don't we treat ourselves that way?

If you make fun of Asian things in a blantantly deragatory fashion, like calling something a chink-movie or saying jap, if you're Chicano and you call yourself a mojado or a beaner, you really hate yourself, and that's the bottom line. And if you hate even parts of yourself, you're not treating yourself the way a human being should treat himself. When you turn your back on what you come from, you turn your back on yourself.

The problem now is, a lot of people think if they just comform, if they force acculturate themselves, they'll just be seen as another American. Well, that's wistful thinking. That's the same wistful thinking that causes a Black man, an Asian man, or a Hispanic man to walk into a Republican "old boys club" and feel accepted because they have the dough. They can't even walk into a Democratic club without being marginalized.

Sorry, the way you look or that slight accent you have is always going to be notice in this age's America. But things are slowly changing better for acceptance. Hollywood-undoubtly the biggest influence on America thought, has moved to include more and more diverse and Ethnic pictures, including Foreign films such as Hable Con Ella, Y Tu Mama Tambien, Bend it Like Beckham, the upcoming Shaolin Soccer, and who could forget Crouching Tigger, Hidden Dragon. It is now even begining to experiment movies for Pan-Asian-American and Pan-Hispanic-American audiences, such as Better Luck Tomorrow and Chasing Papi.

This process shows that slowly, but surely, we can progress as a society in accepting a multi-Ethnic society, because the demands for one are steadly rising in a time were Ethnic beliefs are causing worldwide turmoil.

Despite what is going in the world, people still don't accept that there is racism on all sides. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean you get to bag on others either. When you can't accept truths can you can't be true to yourself or your friends and families. People think it'll just go away if they embrace "the way things are."

Sometimes people forget that Things Always Change.

In this century, we are going to see China rise. It is inevitable. SARS won't stop it. The US can't stop it. Their making a whole other US over their but in a different langauge and with different customs and with an economic power that will probably dominate the next century. The European Union and other growing countries will soon rise too. America, who has been in power for the last century, won't like it. People leaving power never like it. A State Senator, I believe it was Nancy Peplosi said one of the big problems we will be dealing in upcoming years are the discrimination against Asian-Americans because of what will be happening aboard.

And for those that think that being proud of Ethnic heritages causes more racial tension and that Pan Asian-American action is not needed.

I say, "hey, it's fine not to like the current racial structure of America, but don't blame us Asian-Americans activists for its continuing existence. We weren't the ones who created it (http://www.modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=248). We're not going to stop until the underpaying (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=97), disrespecting (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24), maiming (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=225), assaulting (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=212&mode=&order=0&thold=0), harassing (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=273), marginalizing (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=16), and murdering (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=291&mode=&order=0&thold=0) us along racial lines stops and we get equal treatment."

[MellowDrama]

:dance:

RA!

[SunWuKong]

it'll get better as people around you get older. kids can be pretty stupid sometimes.

but what's up with the white chick calling it a fob movie? or calling anything "fob"? that must have been funny.

[lethal]

Damn. Yo go girl.

[angel nympho]

I hate myself.

[airborneranger]

hehehehe but it is only a jap if it is a china calling a movie like that
then I ll be wondering hard
I just remember a hongkong boy once said chinese from china are stupid
I think he meant something other than IQ

Do you think I am right if I said most Hongkong people used to see themselves as most westernized because they were under British rule

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 12:14 AM
I hate myself.
Well, as long as you don't hate any of the rest of us... Or blame it on Hapas...

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I don't hate myself, I hate everyone else. This has nothing to do with my raging hangover and the end of classes yesterday.

BLT is a fob movie? hahahahhhahahahahhahahah. Now stop stereotyping republicans :P

[deez nuts]

you're so engrossed in the movie "better luck tomorrow" yet you brushed off any prophylactic precautions to sars as "paranoia?" now you say sars won't hinder the inevitable rise of china? so sars is just gonna go away by itself or something?

get your priorities straight.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 01:11 PM
you're so engrossed in the movie "better luck tomorrow" yet you brushed off any prophylactic precautions to sars as "paranoia?" now you say sars won't hinder the inevitable rise of china? so sars is just gonna go away by itself or something?

get your priorities straight.
huh...your post confused me. i think we should blame all our problems on CSB. I move that CSB become the YW scapegoat. Any seconds?

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Apr 30 2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 01:11 PM
you're so engrossed in the movie "better luck tomorrow" yet you brushed off any prophylactic precautions to sars as "paranoia?" now you say sars won't hinder the inevitable rise of china? so sars is just gonna go away by itself or something?

get your priorities straight.
huh...your post confused me. i think we should blame all our problems on CSB. I move that CSB become the YW scapegoat. Any seconds?
came from an old post of buffy's.

sure why not. i'm down. we all need a scapegoat.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 08:11 AM
you're so engrossed in the movie "better luck tomorrow" yet you brushed off any prophylactic precautions to sars as "paranoia?"  now you say sars won't hinder the inevitable rise of china? so sars is just gonna go away by itself or something?
if it follows the same patterns as in HK, it'll actually ease the burden on the pensions system by killing 20% of the old people who get it and barely any of the able-bodied workforce members ... lower pensions burden means China's credit rating goes up. And it has already contributed to fighting the overcrowding problem in the cities. Oh yeah, it will probably end up killing off everyone in the countryside with AIDS too so they'll stop spreading it around, which eases the strain on hospitals in rural areas. win-win situation, except for all the dead people.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Apr 30 2003, 09:41 AM
if it follows the same patterns as in HK, it'll actually ease the burden on the pensions system by killing 20% of the old people who get it and barely any of the able-bodied workforce members ... lower pensions burden means China's credit rating goes up. And it has already contributed to fighting the overcrowding problem in the cities. Oh yeah, it will probably end up killing off everyone in the countryside with AIDS too so they'll stop spreading it around, which eases the strain on hospitals in rural areas. win-win situation, except for all the dead people.
hahahaahhaha

till some asian american tourist comes back to america from some "find thyself" trip to asia , goes unchecked and infects my ass. or worse, he/she goes into the movie theater to watch B.L.T. for the upteenth time after their trip and infects anyone in the theater within his or her viscinity. low and behold, instead of me having to avoid and deal with one sars victim, i got a whole boatload of them.

shit, this virus got it all mixed up. the doctor isn't supposed to die when treating patients. we're supposed to be fucking invincible. our only achilles heel is the lawyer.

but, hey what do i know. i'm probably just paranoid.

[Fireblade]

wow... I'm surprised a white girl would use "FOB". I mean, she seriously must have hung out with a lot of asian people to start using the word "fob".

[angelwiththesword]

no offense to anyone (and i am trying really hard not to be racist) but somolians piss me off to no end.

especially the really young chicks.

they do nothing but judge people by their appearences, and they are more intolerant of different cultures then the nazi's were.
a whole group of 20 moley's were walking on the sidewalk opposite me, and they were screaming out that i was some stupid goth chink who worshipped satan and crap like that. i turn to look at them, i whip out my machete, and they all go running off like cats on crack.
if they're gonna go insulting me trying to get a rise outta me, the least they can do is not be such fucking cowards and run off at the first sign of trouble.

anywho, it's people them them who sometimes make me question my ethnicity.

[himura-dono]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 29 2003, 09:36 PM
When you turn your back on what you come from, you turn your back on yourself.

so?

i mean to be serious, i already posted my own self loathing. i'm an internalized racist. i grew up in a racist abusive home, so i lost trust in euro-caucasians and despised them. i still do. yeah, i have a few euro-caucasian friends, but only because they were good people and helped show me that not all caucasians are bastards. it doesn't mean my bias against them are going away anytime soon, but maybe in time caucasians won't start with 1 strike against them in my book.

i don't see it as me hating myself. i don't define myself by my ethnic identity. i'm a person. if i'm a person who happens to be ethnically caucasian, and happen to dislike caucasians, it doesn't change the fact that i'm a person.

[kitty]

Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad? :frown:

[angelwiththesword]

yes. you've been a naughty girl

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 09:58 AM
Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad? :frown:
As long as you admit that you're white-washed or what not, it's ok. It's when you're white-washed and face utter denial like "Oh I'm asian, because I eat chinese food every friday" or what-not. That pisses me off. If you're white-washed, whatever... just go learn about your own culture if it embarasses you. And go to things that are culturally sound, but don't mouth off about how you participated in this and that like it's braggin. There's enough of those people in S.F. <_<

And talk to your parents more about the culture you were given. I'm sure family traditions and such will help you understand your heritage better. As for me.... hell I'm white-washed enough as it is. But quite frankly I'm ME before I'm Chinese.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 12:58 PM
Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad? :frown:
white washed has such a negative connotation to it. i prefer "assimilated." as in: "you are an assimilated asian."

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 12:58 PM
Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad? :frown:
white washed has such a negative connotation to it. i prefer "assimilated." as in: "you are an assimilated asian."
lol that's a good one. i'm gonna have to tell that to one of my whi.....er i mean...friends.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 01:58 PM
Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad? :frown:
sounds perfectly logical to me. unless you're white-washed, you wouldn't care about "asian american" issues. fobs don't give a damn about that stuff.

[kitty]

Originally posted by angelwiththesword@Apr 30 2003, 06:00 PM
yes. you've been a naughty girl
mmm... spank me :P j/k :lol:

[kitty]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 01:58 PM
Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad? :frown:
sounds perfectly logical to me. unless you're white-washed, you wouldn't care about "asian american" issues. fobs don't give a damn about that stuff.
I guess. I advocate for AA issues because I recognize I am Asian and I know what my culture is all about, but I don't hang out with Asians. It's more of a passive part of my identity - I am prideful of my Asian background but it doesn't solely define me.

[Emperor_Mike]

I'm "assimilated" myself, but I also have very strong ties with the Asian as well as the Caucasian communities. I have no problem relating to both sides of the spectrum in terms of language and culture (okay, language wise I can't speak Russian or Dutch) and often (if possible) I lend any assistance I can to whatever issues I find worth supporting.

I find the whole self-loathing thing very unbecoming because no one should be ashamed of who they are. As an multi-ethnic individual I view my situation as unique because I can participate in a multitude of ways within the various communities. I'm certainly not lacking in self-confidence on the account that some mentally deficient person hurls a verbal barb at me, nor do I view society as full of road blocks that serve to prevent me from advancing just because of who I am. Lingering on the perceived disadvantages of being this or that only serves as an excuse to not excel in whatever you do. There's no point in trying something if you don't strive for greatness. Why let inconsequential people ruin your outlook?

Anyway, it's sad to think that some people are willing to abandon their heritage either because they're afraid they won't "fit in" or for whatever sundry reasons they may have.

[lethal]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 01:58 PM
Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad? :frown:
Aren't you Canadian?

That makes you bad, not the rest of the stuff... :D

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by himura-dono@Apr 30 2003, 11:07 AM
i don't see it as me hating myself. i don't define myself by my ethnic identity. i'm a person. if i'm a person who happens to be ethnically caucasian, and happen to dislike caucasians, it doesn't change the fact that i'm a person.
Your situation is different, though, because for you distancing yourself from your own race is a choice that you've made, not something that's forced upon you by another group. For most Asians in America, there is a lot of pressure from the White majority to be more White, or to regard their ancestral culture as backwards or otherwise unappealing. An AA who tries to shed all the aspects of his Asian culture is probably doing so because of that pressure, and not because he has looked at his own race and found fault in it. Also, you're trying to be less like a bad White person, whereas a Whitewashed AA is trying to be White.

[deez nuts]

it's not self-loathing if you just don't give a flying fuck about the small shit.

for me:

asian politics and issues: i care about certain asian issues in america. but i care more about issues pertaining to china and taiwan since all my relatives are still there.

asian culture: what the hell is that? B.L.T, anime etc etc? no thanks....i guess whatever my parents exposed me to when i was growing up.

asian language: born in taiwan. moved here when i was 13-14. i have a solid command of mandarin when it comes to reading, writing and speaking.

heck, i don't even call myself asian, let alone asian-american. i'm chinese. the only time i ever went to an asian american function in college was to try and pick up chicks (and i'm willing to bet, i'm not the only one, either).

i don't like certain asian-american in your face tactics or some of that militant bullshit. most of the time it leaves me wondering: "you're asian; so what?"

but on the flipside, it's always good to stay informed, so i can pick and choose my issues. knowledge is powah...holla...holla.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by kittygirl@Apr 30 2003, 01:58 PM
Hmm... I dunno... I consider myself white-washed but?I'm also one of the bigger Asian/Asian American advocates on my campus.

Am I bad??:frown:
sounds perfectly logical to me. unless you're white-washed, you wouldn't care about "asian american" issues. fobs don't give a damn about that stuff.
I guess. I advocate for AA issues because I recognize I am Asian and I know what my culture is all about, but I don't hang out with Asians. It's more of a passive part of my identity - I am prideful of my Asian background but it doesn't solely define me.
there's no need to pick your friends based on race alone, exclusive of culture instead. that's for white-washed asians who think that they're not white-washed - aka AzNs.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 01:18 PM
it's not self-loathing if you just don't give a flying fuck about the small shit.

but on the flipside, it's always good to stay informed, so i can pick and choose my issues. knowledge is powah...holla...holla.
I don't think being underpaid (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=97), disrespected (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24), maimed (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=225), assaulted (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=212&mode=&order=0&thold=0), harassed (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=273), marginalized (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=16), and murdered (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=291&mode=&order=0&thold=0) along racial lines is small shit. Be informed.

Unless I move to Taiwan or something-something I have been considering to do after schooling, issues like these aren't going to go away for me and they aren't going to go away for my family and friends and they won't even go away for my kids or any of us unless people acknowledge it.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 01:18 PM
it's not self-loathing if you just don't give a flying fuck about the small shit.

but on the flipside, it's always good to stay informed, so i can pick and choose my issues.&nbsp; knowledge is powah...holla...holla.
I don't think being underpaid (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=97), disrespected (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24), maimed (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=225), assaulted (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=212&mode=&order=0&thold=0), harassed (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=273), marginalized (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=16), and murdered (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=291&mode=&order=0&thold=0) along racial lines is small shit. Be informed.

Unless I move to Taiwan or something-something I have been considering to do after schooling, issues like these aren't going to go away for me and they aren't going to go away for my family and friends and they won't even go away for my kids or any of us unless people acknowledge it.
oh i definitely encourage you to go try living in taiwan for a while. and i don't mean for a month or two. try 2 to 4 years. :)

i encourage all asian americans to do this.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 01:18 PM
it's not self-loathing if you just don't give a flying fuck about the small shit.

but on the flipside, it's always good to stay informed, so i can pick and choose my issues. knowledge is powah...holla...holla.
I don't think being underpaid (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=97), disrespected (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24), maimed (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=225), assaulted (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=212&mode=&order=0&thold=0), harassed (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=273), marginalized (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=16), and murdered (http://modelminority.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=291&mode=&order=0&thold=0) along racial lines is small shit. Be informed.

Unless I move to Taiwan or something-something I have been considering to do after schooling, issues like these aren't going to go away for me and they aren't going to go away for my family and friends and they won't even go away for my kids or any of us unless people acknowledge it.
hahaha, ok flex, whatever. try reading my post again. i never said the aforementioned were small shit, did i?

and a fyi: when you move to taiwan you'll face a shitload of other problems. no racism? think again. be informed and think before you talk: "hua jiang tu lai. bu shing na hui chui."

sorry for my whitewashed pingyin.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 05:36 AM
When you turn your back on what you come from, you turn your back on yourself.
Well then it's a damn good thing I didn't come from Korea.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Apr 30 2003, 03:39 PM
and a fyi: when you move to taiwan you'll face a shitload of other problems. no racism? think again. be informed and think before you talk: "hua jiang tu lai. bu shing na hui chui."
That's funny, my Taiwanese accented Mandarin passes off all the time as pure-bred.

I wasn't thinking about living there for two or four months, I meant to go live and work there for an indefinite amount of years(and hopefully living out in Davis, CA won't suck the Taiwanese out of me).

Of course they'll know I'm not from there, and I know the island has its very xenophobic tendacies, but at least I don't have to deal with people who think I'm a chink, going to basketball games with friends without at least somebody being called a racial ephitet, I don't have to sit in a restaurant while my white friends get better service than I do, or my favorite, trying to explain the concepts of familial values and losing face and other ethnic tendacies Americans find "wrong." In the end, the subtly of those things are what counts for me, the lesser of two evils.

[Uncle Tat]

I hate white people.

The only thing I hate more than white people are Asians that become totally Americanized and hate/avoid their Asian heritage. That includes girls that date only white guys and guys that date only white girls (although the latter is rare).

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 07:21 PM
That's funny, my Taiwanese accented Mandarin passes off all the time as pure-bred.

I wasn't thinking about living there for two or four months, I meant to go live and work there for an indefinite amount of years(and hopefully living out in Davis, CA won't suck the Taiwanese out of me).

Of course they'll know I'm not from there, and I know the island has its very xenophobic tendacies, but at least I don't have to deal with people who think I'm a chink, going to basketball games with friends without at least somebody being called a racial ephitet, I don't have to sit in a restaurant while my white friends get better service than I do, or my favorite, trying to explain the concepts of familial values and losing face and other ethnic tendacies Americans find "wrong." In the end, the subtly of those things are what counts for me, the lesser of two evils.
you honestly think the only problem you would face in taiwan is wai san ren vs ban san ren? come on it's not that simple. and i'm wai san ren, not ban san ren aka pure bred as you put it.

sorry, the racism i faced isn't as bad as you described. sure i have faced my share, but who hasn't? it's not worth my time and energy to dwell on every single minor incident that happens in my life.


Of course they'll know I'm not from there, and I know the island has its very xenophobic tendacies, but at least I don't have to deal with people who think I'm a chink, going to basketball games with friends without at least somebody being called a racial ephitet, I don't have to sit in a restaurant while my white friends get better service than I do, or my favorite, trying to explain the concepts of familial values and losing face and other ethnic tendacies Americans find "wrong." In the end, the subtly of those things are what counts for me, the lesser of two evils.

this is the small shit, i said i wasn't gonna sweat. yet, you mistaken it for murder, death, kill. quite a sudden turn around in degree of severity from murder, death, kill to not getting decent service in restaurant.

murder, death, kill of a chinese person cuz he happens to be a chinese, i would care about. not getting decent service in a restaurant cuz i'm chinese means no tip and i move on with my life.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 1 2003, 12:21 AM
...trying to explain the concepts of familial values and losing face and other ethnic tendacies Americans find "wrong." In the end, the subtly of those things are what counts for me, the lesser of two evils.
Why do you even feel the need to explain those things to anybody?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:34 AM
not getting decent service in a restaurant cuz i'm chinese means no tip and i move on with my life.
Haha, it also means reading the mind of your waiter. And speaking as one who works in the food industry..... Fine, don't tip. I wouldn't expect a Chink to tip me anyway!!! LOL... hey I'm kidding!!!

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Uncle Tat@May 1 2003, 12:28 AM
I hate white people.

The only thing I hate more than white people are Asians that become totally Americanized and hate/avoid their Asian heritage. That includes girls that date only white guys and guys that date only white girls (although the latter is rare).
Me too. :HH:

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 07:37 PM
Haha, it also means reading the mind of your waiter. And speaking as one who works in the food industry..... Fine, don't tip. I wouldn't expect a Chink to tip me anyway!!! LOL... hey I'm kidding!!!
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
i always tip at least 20%. less if the service was lacking or more if the service was great. i never put the tip on my credit card. i always tip in cash. i remembered what it was like busting my ass being a waiter or tending the bar when i was in college.

oh no, i'm white washed!

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
i always tip at least 20%. less if the service was lacking or more if the service was great. i never put the tip on my credit card. i always tip in cash. i remembered what it was like busting my ass being a waiter or tending the bar when i was in college.

oh no, i'm white washed!
HAhaha!!! DON'T TURN YOUR BACK ON YOUR HERITAGE!!! Your race dictates that you MUST tip 10% ONLY when your service is EXEMPLARY. :dance:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
i always tip at least 20%. less if the service was lacking or more if the service was great. i never put the tip on my credit card. i always tip in cash. i remembered what it was like busting my ass being a waiter or tending the bar when i was in college.

oh no, i'm white washed!
HAhaha!!! DON'T TURN YOUR BACK ON YOUR HERITAGE!!! Your race dictates that you MUST tip 10% ONLY when your service is EXEMPLARY. :dance:
i always tip 20% also. and i tip on almost everything, not just food. but HK people understand the importance of tipping well. so i'm not turning my back on my heritage by tipping well. :dance: :dance: :dance:

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
Chinese people are good at math. They're just cheap. Me and my friends (who are Taiwanese, who I guess know a little better) argued with another friend (Chinese) for over an hour about why she should leave more than a 7% tip; she didn't believe that waitresses get paid less than minimum wage. Even when we convinced her, she wouldn't go above 10%, and she's a bleeding-heart liberal, too!

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 1 2003, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
Chinese people are good at math. They're just cheap. Me and my friends (who are Taiwanese, who I guess know a little better) argued with another friend (Chinese) for over an hour about why she should leave more than a 7% tip; she didn't believe that waitresses get paid less than minimum wage. Even when we convinced her, she wouldn't go above 10%, and she's a bleeding-heart liberal, too!
I get paid minimum wage... But the difference between my paycheck and somebody else's is that taxes are 50%. So if I worked $300 worth of hours, I only get half of that. And if you don't believe me, I'll show you a pay stub.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 30 2003, 08:21 PM
That's funny, my Taiwanese accented Mandarin passes off all the time as pure-bred.

I wasn't thinking about living there for two or four months, I meant to go live and work there for an indefinite amount of years(and hopefully living out in Davis, CA won't suck the Taiwanese out of me).

Of course they'll know I'm not from there, and I know the island has its very xenophobic tendacies, but at least I don't have to deal with people who think I'm a chink, going to basketball games with friends without at least somebody being called a racial ephitet, I don't have to sit in a restaurant while my white friends get better service than I do, or my favorite, trying to explain the concepts of familial values and losing face and other ethnic tendacies Americans find "wrong." In the end, the subtly of those things are what counts for me, the lesser of two evils.
i think you should definitely go for it. living in taiwan.

but i think you'll find that some of the discrimination you've seen will also have a place in taiwan. it's just that it wouldn't be directed at you. try speaking your fluent english to some people. they'll think you're loaded with money and suddenly you're all that much more respectful. i haven't lived in taiwan, but if the attitude there is anything like in HK, i think you'll also find that white people there are also given better service than the locals. which is even worse because it's pretty much societal self-discrimination.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 1 2003, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
Chinese people are good at math. They're just cheap. Me and my friends (who are Taiwanese, who I guess know a little better) argued with another friend (Chinese) for over an hour about why she should leave more than a 7% tip; she didn't believe that waitresses get paid less than minimum wage. Even when we convinced her, she wouldn't go above 10%, and she's a bleeding-heart liberal, too!
I get paid minimum wage... But the difference between my paycheck and somebody else's is that taxes are 50%. So if I worked $300 worth of hours, I only get half of that. And if you don't believe me, I'll show you a pay stub.
news flash babe. everybody get taxed to death. especially in cali, i guess. if i actually get the amount i'm supposed to get as my salary, all my debt would have been gone already.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 1 2003, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
Chinese people are good at math. They're just cheap. Me and my friends (who are Taiwanese, who I guess know a little better) argued with another friend (Chinese) for over an hour about why she should leave more than a 7% tip; she didn't believe that waitresses get paid less than minimum wage. Even when we convinced her, she wouldn't go above 10%, and she's a bleeding-heart liberal, too!
I get paid minimum wage... But the difference between my paycheck and somebody else's is that taxes are 50%. So if I worked $300 worth of hours, I only get half of that. And if you don't believe me, I'll show you a pay stub.
geezus christ...i hope you get a hefty tax refund check. that's f'ing insane. i get about 2/3 of my paycheck.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@Apr 30 2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
Chinese people are good at math. They're just cheap. Me and my friends (who are Taiwanese, who I guess know a little better) argued with another friend (Chinese) for over an hour about why she should leave more than a 7% tip; she didn't believe that waitresses get paid less than minimum wage. Even when we convinced her, she wouldn't go above 10%, and she's a bleeding-heart liberal, too!
hahahahaha...oh.....my.......god. definitely not our shiniest moment.

[mr. x]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 29 2003, 09:36 PM

Some white girl said, "Oh it's a fob movie." And I was like, "You go to a school that's 70% Asian, it's Asian-American." And she still said it was a fob movie. Then JA guy whose known for being for the lack of a better word, "whitewashed" kept calling it a chink movie saying it sucked and it made no sense even though it could have been a documentary of our community. It's funny how people don't say these things to me outside of a classroom with a teacher and then run away.

did you overhear them or were they telling you to your face?

[rakovlam]

Oh yeah, and I still ahven't seen BLT. I can just hate myself for that.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 08:54 PM
but i think you'll find that some of the discrimination you've seen will also have a place in taiwan.? it's just that it wouldn't be directed at you.? try speaking your fluent english to some people.? they'll think you're loaded with money and suddenly you're all that much more respectful.? i haven't lived in taiwan, but if the attitude there is anything like in HK, i think you'll also find that white people there are also given better service than the locals.? which is even worse because it's pretty much societal self-discrimination.
An English language article on the subject I saw a few weeks ago, from Taipei Times.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archi...03/03/30/200079 (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2003/03/30/200079)

For their part, local Taiwanese often say they can spot an "ABC," or American-born Chinese, even before they speak. They claim that the way they dress, their hairstyle or make-up are telltale signs. "You can always tell an ABC by their shoes," one local girl claimed. "They're expensive and always match what they're wearing."

But the stereotypes go beyond appearances. "ABCs are all arrogant, spoiled rich kids," said another local man. Other frequently heard comments were that overseas Chinese steal all the good jobs and are cliquish, only spending time with other hua chiao.

Many overseas Chinese acknowledge that the stereotypes aren't baseless.

...

"The longer I'm in Taiwan, the more I realize how American I am," he said. "It's funny; in the US I was always considered `Chinese-American.' Now that I'm here, I'm first considered an American, then Chinese."

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by mr. x@Apr 30 2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 29 2003, 09:36 PM

Some white girl said, "Oh it's a fob movie."&nbsp; And I was like, "You go to a school that's 70% Asian, it's Asian-American."&nbsp; And she still said it was a fob movie.&nbsp; Then JA guy whose known for being for the lack of a better word, "whitewashed" kept calling it a chink movie saying it sucked and it made no sense even though it could have been a documentary of our community.&nbsp; It's funny how people don't say these things to me outside of a classroom with a teacher and then run away.

did you overhear them or were they telling you to your face?
To my face. ;)

Well if you haven't seen BLT, I highly recommend it, doesn't mean that you hate yourself or that you have to mock the topic.

The point is that it'll be a big problem for Asian-Americans, or heck anyone, if they're in denial of truths and they think they have solve their problems with denial.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Apr 30 2003, 11:30 PM
An English language article on the subject I saw a few weeks ago, from Taipei Times.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archi...03/03/30/200079 (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2003/03/30/200079)

For their part, local Taiwanese often say they can spot an "ABC," or American-born Chinese, even before they speak. They claim that the way they dress, their hairstyle or make-up are telltale signs. "You can always tell an ABC by their shoes," one local girl claimed. "They're expensive and always match what they're wearing."

But the stereotypes go beyond appearances. "ABCs are all arrogant, spoiled rich kids," said another local man. Other frequently heard comments were that overseas Chinese steal all the good jobs and are cliquish, only spending time with other hua chiao.

Many overseas Chinese acknowledge that the stereotypes aren't baseless.


hey, doesn't sound too unlike how it is in HK. i hate how entertainment media in HK portrays Overseas Chinese as either impossibly rich or disgustingly snobby. i'm neither. and my clothes don't match - i have no fashion sense. my friends are always surprised that i know a lot about Chinese history and that i listen to Teresa Teng.

but i agree that it's not all baseless. some Overseas Chinese are indeed snobby and look down on locals, and they only hang out with other Overseas Chinese or foreigners. and yes, many do have better jobs than locals even though their education level and experience may be the same as those locals.

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Apr 30 2003, 11:30 PM

"The longer I'm in Taiwan, the more I realize how American I am," he said.

SO true.

[himura-dono]

nm, i thought it was yuhei who get's 50% back.

so, angel, how DO you get fucked that much of your pay? you don't live in canada, so i would figure you pay your basic 10-12%.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 10:41 PM
i'm neither.? and my clothes don't match - i have no fashion sense.
I made a specific effort when packing before I left to localize. Sorta. I based it off of how my cousins and friends in dressed in Malaysia but I hit it close enough, I didn't feel obligated to buy new clothes once I landed just to fit in. The backpack (man, every exchange student had a Jansport or Eddie Bauer backpack), solid blue polo shirts, university sweatshirt, baggy white cargo pants and jeans, etc. stayed at home.

So I blended in from the neck down, except for ... my shoes, cuz I felt embarassed to wear my beat-up running shoes to go anywhere besides class, so when I went out I was always wearing nicely polished brown leather shoes. Which is why I was so amused by that quote about shoes from the article above.

But "Really, how often do you look at a man's shoes anyway?" --- Shawshank redemption

And yeah ... as I stayed in HK for longer, I realized that my attitudes never matched local people's attitudes on any number of things --- especially girls. I'd never realized this difference around high school friends from HK before since 3/4 of them were international school kids anyway. Oh yeah and it was hard to find people to come eat ridiculously spicy food with me.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 07:41 PM
For their part, local Taiwanese often say they can spot an "ABC," or American-born Chinese, even before they speak. They claim that the way they dress, their hairstyle or make-up are telltale signs. "You can always tell an ABC by their shoes," one local girl claimed. "They're expensive and always match what they're wearing."

But the stereotypes go beyond appearances. "ABCs are all arrogant, spoiled rich kids," said another local man. Other frequently heard comments were that overseas Chinese steal all the good jobs and are cliquish, only spending time with other hua chiao.

Many overseas Chinese acknowledge that the stereotypes aren't baseless.


hey, doesn't sound too unlike how it is in HK. i hate how entertainment media in HK portrays Overseas Chinese as either impossibly rich or disgustingly snobby. i'm neither. and my clothes don't match - i have no fashion sense. my friends are always surprised that i know a lot about Chinese history and that i listen to Teresa Teng.

but i agree that it's not all baseless. some Overseas Chinese are indeed snobby and look down on locals, and they only hang out with other Overseas Chinese or foreigners. and yes, many do have better jobs than locals even though their education level and experience may be the same as those locals.

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Apr 30 2003, 11:30 PM

"The longer I'm in Taiwan, the more I realize how American I am," he said.

SO true.[/quote]
It's true in many cases, most ABCs I've know do think they're better than fobs or Chinese back in the "motherlands" for the lack of a better word, although I think it's just because they don't want to try to understand the differences between 'them' and 'us.' And it's true that a lot of Chinese, ABCs included, treat white people better.

Why do you think that there is this whole general division between or hiearchy among Asians or even when in Chinese restaurants here and abroad why do white patrons get treated better besides the issues of money and besides issues of self-loathing? Or even why they're there and how they can be solved?

In other words, why do we drill this snobbish crap into ourselves when it doesn't make sense to because we can't judge anything we don't understand?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@May 1 2003, 12:04 AM
I made a specific effort when packing before I left to localize. Sorta. I based it off of how my cousins and friends in dressed in Malaysia but I hit it close enough, I didn't feel obligated to buy new clothes once I landed just to fit in. The backpack (man, every exchange student had a Jansport or Eddie Bauer backpack), university sweatshirt, baggy white cargo pants and jeans, etc. stayed at home.

So I blended in from the neck down, except for ... my shoes, cuz I felt embarassed to wear my beat-up running shoes to go anywhere besides class, so when I went out I was always wearing nicely polished brown leather shoes. Which is why I was so amused by that quote about shoes from the article above.

But "Really, how often do you look at a man's shoes anyway?" --- Shawshank redemption

And yeah ... as I stayed in HK for longer, I realized that my attitudes never matched local people's attitudes on any number of things --- especially girls. I'd never realized this difference around high school friends from HK before since 3/4 of them were international school kids anyway. Oh yeah and it was hard to find people to come eat ridiculously spicy food with me.
yeah, i didn't buy new clothes to fit in either. but after a while, people couldn't tell that i wasn't local unless they're really observant or i tell them. i think carrying around a man-purse like all the other guys in HK helped. :P

at the risk of sounding like an asia version of the "identity crisis" of asian americans, after a while i realised that i couldn't fully relate to the locals and i couldn't relate to the foreigners. it was the other overseas chinese people that i could best relate to, because they're fairly westernised.

it certainly was an exciting time though. being in HK, with other overseas chinese people my age who have "returned" to HK. we have some common attitudes just by the virtue of having made the effort to go live and work in HK.

fuck, now i'm getting antsy about going back.

[teaz0r]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 11:13 AM
i think carrying around a man-purse like all the other guys in HK helped. :P
tirak you're such a fashionista!
pip rak!

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@May 1 2003, 12:08 AM
Why do you think that there is this whole general division between or hiearchy among Asians or even when in Chinese restaurants here and abroad why do white patrons get treated better besides the issues of money and besides issues of self-loathing? Or even why they're there and how they can be solved?

In other words, why do we drill this snobbish crap into ourselves when it doesn't make sense to because we can't judge anything we don't understand?
that's such a loaded question. :)

the white people living in Chinese parts of Asia (and by that, i mean Europeans and Americans - there are more Europeans than Americans in HK) are usually more affluent than their counterparts back in their respective homes. i mean, a lot of them are there because they're talented people and they are sent there to do business, etc etc (there are exceptions of course). this has usually been so throughout history and even now. so basically, it generally is true that white people in Chinese parts of Asia have more money, except for those young people that sometimes go there to teach English.

i think another factor is western media. for most people, the only white people they really see regularly are on magazine covers or in movies. it's no wonder that locals have a skewed positive image of white people.

but you know, for some reason, in HK, the white people (who are mostly Europeans) do seem better looking than white people in the US. i cannot explain it.

as for why Chinese people might look down on themselves, i think you should read about Chinese Nationalism, about how they don't really have a sense of nationality, or that this sense of nationality is very young. it has historically always been "we are people, they are foreigners", and not "we are Chinese people". it was really only in the last century that we've developed a sense of nationality, a sense that we are Chinese, and during that century we've been beseiged by superior European and American economic and military powers. it's not surprising that we look down on ourselves. whereas Europeans have had a very developed sense of nationality and ethnicity because they've been fighting with each other for more elbow space in Europe for so long.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 11:33 PM
the white people living in Chinese parts of Asia (and by that, i mean Europeans and Americans - there are more Europeans than Americans in HK) are usually more affluent than their counterparts back in their respective homes. i mean, a lot of them are there because they're talented people and they are sent there to do business, etc etc (there are exceptions of course). this has usually been so throughout history and even now. so basically, it generally is true that white people in Chinese parts of Asia have more money, except for those young people that sometimes go there to teach English.
HK may be a special case cuz the recruiting of foreign students and foreign English teachers nowhere near approaches the level of aggressiveness you see in the rest of Asia, and the living is not so cheap as other nearby locales. In Malaysia we got our share of poor white folks too ... backpackers, dirty old retirees (why the hell they don't just go to Philippines or Thailand where there's none of this "we are an Islamic state" bullshit raiding hotels to look for khalwat violations is beyond me), etc. At least there's not too many English teachers. I'm told Taipei is swarming with them cuz of some new government English promotion scheme these days.

And at least in M'sia, as many of the rich foreign investors are Japanese or Chinese as white ... and unlike HK the Japanese have some visibility, at least in my end of the country ... grabbing up contracts for municipal water works projects and all that. Their presence isn't heavy, but you know about it even if you're a clueless overseas returnee like me, unlike in HK where plenty of people didn't even know there was a Japanese international school or anything like that. I have no idea where Taiwan gets FDI from but I was under the impression that more of it is coming from China, HK, and Japan than from the West.

but you know, for some reason, in HK, the white people (who are mostly Europeans) do seem better looking than white people in the US.&nbsp; i cannot explain it.
really? man I always saw the funniest-ass looking white people. bright red skin, enormous noses, ears the size of small saucers, chest hair and back hair spilling outta their shirts, ugly late 30s women all made up and dressed showing way too much skin, etc. Man some of them looked like caricatures of what Asians think white people look like. And not too many of them were with pretty girls either.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@May 1 2003, 12:50 AM
HK may be a special case cuz the recruiting of foreign students and foreign English teachers nowhere near approaches the level of aggressiveness you see in the rest of Asia, and the living is not so cheap as other nearby locales. In Malaysia we got our share of poor white folks too ... backpackers, dirty old retirees (why the hell they don't just go to Philippines or Thailand where there's none of this "we are an Islamic state" bullshit raiding hotels to look for khalwat violations is beyond me), etc. At least there's not too many English teachers. I'm told Taipei is swarming with them cuz of some new government English promotion scheme these days.

And at least in M'sia, as many of the rich foreign investors are Japanese or Chinese as white ... and unlike HK the Japanese have some visibility, at least in my end of the country ... grabbing up contracts for municipal water works projects and all that. Their presence isn't heavy, but you know about it even if you're a clueless overseas returnee like me, unlike in HK where plenty of people didn't even know there was a Japanese international school or anything like that. I have no idea where Taiwan gets FDI from but I was under the impression that more of it is coming from China, HK, and Japan than from the West.


really? man I always saw the funniest-ass looking white people. bright red skin, enormous noses, ears the size of small saucers, chest hair and back hair spilling outta their shirts, ugly late 30s women all made up and dressed showing way too much skin, etc. Man some of them looked like caricatures of what Asians think white people look like. And not too many of them were with pretty girls either.
oh yeah. i saw some japanese school girls at the MTR once. :D
i heard that most of the japanese businessmen moved out when the japanese recession started, and many of the japanese international schools closed. did you know there's a singaporean international school up in mid-levels somewhere? a s'porean friend of mine was making fun of it saying that it's so they can teach kids to speak singlish. hahhah!

regarding good looking white people - maybe i was just hanging out at LKF and Soho too much. :P i swear, it's like all the good looking girls in HK suddenly appear out of nowhere and go to Central on friday and saturday nights.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Apr 30 2003, 08:33 PM
but you know, for some reason, in HK, the white people (who are mostly Europeans) do seem better looking than white people in the US. i cannot explain it.

as for why Chinese people might look down on themselves, i think you should read about Chinese Nationalism, about how they don't really have a sense of nationality, or that this sense of nationality is very young. it has historically always been "we are people, they are foreigners", and not "we are Chinese people". it was really only in the last century that we've developed a sense of nationality, a sense that we are Chinese, and during that century we've been beseiged by superior European and American economic and military powers. it's not surprising that we look down on ourselves. whereas Europeans have had a very developed sense of nationality and ethnicity because they've been fighting with each other for more elbow space in Europe for so long.
That's cause white people in the US are all mixed-up and eat too much.

Just kidding friends :P

Yeah, I seriously need to take a formal Chinese history class, too many Asian-American ones makes one bitter and crazy. I agree, who could forget Chiang Kai-Shek's quote that said that Chinese people were too fragmented to care about a greater cause, it was a metaphor about grains of sand but I can't remember it now for some reason. :confused:

I have a feeling Chinese Nationalism might change in the near future, because more money always = more snobbery.

That's why you have AzNs and ABCs who laugh at fobs and white people. *hides head in shame for the rest of her generation*

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 12:00 AM
i swear, it's like all the good looking girls in HK suddenly appear out of nowhere and go to Central on friday and saturday nights.
yeah, i sure didn't see many way the hell up in Shatin :(

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Apr 30 2003, 10:50 PM
really? man I always saw the funniest-ass looking white people. bright red skin, enormous noses, ears the size of small saucers, chest hair and back hair spilling outta their shirts, ugly late 30s women all made up and dressed showing way too much skin, etc. Man some of them looked like caricatures of what Asians think white people look like. And not too many of them were with pretty girls either.
That's because we Americans are used to seeing multi-ethnic (here I use the word ethnic as a reference to nationality, not race) Whites, whereas White people from Europe usually have only one or two (often closely related) ethnicities. Anyone who's spent time in Europe should be able to tell the difference between English, German, Italian, Polish, etc. just by looking, the way you can tell between Chinese, Japanese, etc.. England is so damn White, they treat redheads like freaks because there's no one else to make fun of.

[Tao]

who could forget Chiang Kai-Shek's quote that said that Chinese people were too fragmented to care about a greater cause,

when did chiang kai shek ever care about the chinese people? he was too busy brown nosing the americans into giving him money and supplies to supposidly "fight the japanese" when he actually meant his own feud to gain control of china from mao.

shek is the LAST person that should be talking about a "greater" cause. What did he do for the chinese people when the rape of Nanking occured? Saving up the ammo the US gave him for fighting the japanese, in order to fight mao. Selfish bastard.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Tao@May 1 2003, 01:16 AM

when did chiang kai shek ever care about the chinese people? he was too busy brown nosing the americans into giving him money and supplies to supposidly "fight the japanese" when he actually meant his own feud to gain control of china from mao.

shek is the LAST person that should be talking about a "greater" cause. What did he do for the chinese people when the rape of Nanking occured? Saving up the ammo the US gave him for fighting the japanese, in order to fight mao. Selfish bastard.
different discussion, different thread.
start a new thread about this if you want to.
let's stick to topic.

[applehead]

i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 03:32 AM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
big shoes? :confused:

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 12:32 AM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
hehe another person that is bitter with fobby koreans....even though i'm a quarter korean :P

[deez nuts]

asian americans vs fobs, you just can't win. even tho i was a fob, i can't stand some of them now, just as i can't stand some asian americans. and no, i'm not a b.o.b, i have no interest in ever going back to live.

i'll just hang around with mexicans.

however, some of the j.f.k. (just from korea) chickies are kinda fly. and they smell nice, too!

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 03:32 AM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
big shoes? :confused:
the mad large and high platform shoes. like the ones short chickies wear to make themselves look taller.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Apr 30 2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:39 AM
hahahahahaa

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
Hahaha, yeah, for a group of people who are supposedly good at math, they sure don't know how to calculate 15%.
i always tip at least 20%. less if the service was lacking or more if the service was great. i never put the tip on my credit card. i always tip in cash. i remembered what it was like busting my ass being a waiter or tending the bar when i was in college.

oh no, i'm white washed!
HAhaha!!! DON'T TURN YOUR BACK ON YOUR HERITAGE!!! Your race dictates that you MUST tip 10% ONLY when your service is EXEMPLARY. :dance:
it's too late for me. save yourself.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 03:32 AM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
big shoes? :confused:
the mad large and high platform shoes. like the ones short chickies wear to make themselves look taller.
oh. i was imagining clown shoes. don't chicks in japan wear those platform shoes too?

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 03:32 AM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
big shoes? :confused:
the mad large and high platform shoes. like the ones short chickies wear to make themselves look taller.
oh. i was imagining clown shoes. don't chicks in japan wear those platform shoes too?
don't know any japanese women. i would figure their token signature would be the black boyfriend rather than the platform shoes, hahahahahaha.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@May 1 2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 1 2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 03:32 AM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
big shoes? :confused:
the mad large and high platform shoes. like the ones short chickies wear to make themselves look taller.
oh. i was imagining clown shoes. don't chicks in japan wear those platform shoes too?
don't know any japanese women. i would figure their token signature would be the black boyfriend rather than the platform shoes, hahahahahaha.
oh yeah, of course. and they're doing it for a good cause, too. what better ways to break down racial barriers than for japanese girls to have black boyfriends? i just can't think of anything more honourable.

[applehead]

i meant.
shoes that are too big for their feet.
yes. clown shoes.

[applehead]

Originally posted by tazadar@May 1 2003, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Apr 30 2003, 11:32 PM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
Aren't you foreign-born? I thought you're a fobby Korean.
nevermind.

[d-boy]

Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@May 1 2003, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Apr 30 2003, 11:32 PM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
Aren't you foreign-born? I thought you're a fobby Korean.
nevermind.
i used to feel that way sometimes, until i lived in East Asia as an adult.

things i hate now:

about some fobs:
-superficiality

about some AAs:
-lack of any real identity, self-hatred/racial inferiority complex and slave-like
devotion to Whiteness, all of which they mistake for "open-mindedness" and a
"cosmopolitan" mindset.

[Tao]

Originally posted by dzoo@May 1 2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by applehead@May 1 2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by tazadar@May 1 2003, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by applehead@Apr 30 2003, 11:32 PM
i hate fobby korean people.
their superficiality.
i hate the way they talk.
i hate their big shoes.
all the hair accesories the girls wear.
their kimchi breath.
and they're so damn loud and rude.
Aren't you foreign-born? I thought you're a fobby Korean.
nevermind.
i used to feel that way sometimes, until i lived in East Asia as an adult.

things i hate now:

about some fobs:
-superficiality

about some AAs:
-lack of any real identity, self-hatred/racial inferiority complex and slave-like
devotion to Whiteness, all of which they mistake for "open-mindedness" and a
"cosmopolitan" mindset.
yeah i see those people in school, pisses me off to no end. but i still try to make nce with them ;)

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by himura-dono@May 1 2003, 04:01 AM
so, angel, how DO you get fucked that much of your pay? you don't live in canada, so i would figure you pay your basic 10-12%.
My credit card tips get taxed. ... So if I made $500 in credit card tips, they add that to the $300 I'd be getting in hourly pay... tax the $800... then subtract the $500 back.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 02:23 AM
My credit card tips get taxed. ... So if I made $500 in credit card tips, they add that to the $300 I'd be getting in hourly pay... tax the $800... then subtract the $500 back.
wait. what do you mean "subtract the $500" back?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 02:45 PM
wait. what do you mean "subtract the $500" back?
My check would say:

Hourly pay: $300
Tips Earned: $500 <-- they add $500 for my tips
Gross Pay: $800

Deductions:
- $95 Fed income tax
-$55 Social Security tax
-$17 Medicare tax
-$19 CA state income tax

Other:
-$500 Tips <-- then take it away
-$6 VPDI


So eventually, all I have left is $108
They tax the tip money they assume I already took home in cash.

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 11:20 AM
My check would say:

Hourly pay: $300
Tips Earned: $500 <-- they add $500 for my tips
Gross Pay: $800

Deductions:
- $95 Fed income tax
-$55 Social Security tax
-$17 Medicare tax
-$19 CA state income tax

Other:
-$500 Tips <-- then take it away
-$6 VPDI


So eventually, all I have left is $108
damn that sucks ass. i feel you pain :frown:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 02:20 PM
My check would say:

Hourly pay: $300
Tips Earned: $500 <-- they add $500 for my tips
Gross Pay: $800

Deductions:
- $95 Fed income tax
-$55 Social Security tax
-$17 Medicare tax
-$19 CA state income tax

Other:
-$500 Tips <-- then take it away
-$6 VPDI


So eventually, all I have left is $108
They tax the tip money they assume I already took home in cash.
err... why are they taking your $500 away?
i still don't understand that part. i understand the taxing of the tips part, but you're saying that they actually take away your tip money itself?

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 02:20 PM
My check would say:

Hourly pay: $300
Tips Earned: $500&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <-- they add $500 for my tips
Gross Pay:&nbsp; $800

Deductions:
- $95&nbsp; Fed income tax
-$55&nbsp; Social Security tax
-$17&nbsp; Medicare tax
-$19&nbsp; CA state income tax

Other:
-$500 Tips&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <-- then take it away
-$6 VPDI


So eventually, all I have left is $108
They tax the tip money they assume I already took home in cash.
err... why are they taking your $500 away?
i still don't understand that part. i understand the taxing of the tips part, but you're saying that they actually take away your tip money itself?
C'mon, it's not like the IRS has the power of Chinese math skillz to do their work.

Come to think of it, I didn't fill in a tax form this year... Hmmm...

[Chester]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 02:20 PM

They tax the tip money they assume I already took home in cash.
err... why are they taking your $500 away?
i still don't understand that part. i understand the taxing of the tips part, but you're saying that they actually take away your tip money itself?
Essentially, the IRS now assumes that a waiter has made a certain percentage of tips.

Which is "fair" [1] if the waiter actually clears that percentage. But if the waiter actually makes less than that percentage, then they're getting bent over the table by the tax collector.

Nonetheless, it still helps to tip in cash. Pay with the card if you must, tip in cash.

[1] I'm not saying it's fair or unfair...not wanting to get into the whole other topic of whether or not waiters get compensated enough, overall.

[teaz0r]

footnoting is so fantastic.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chester@May 2 2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 02:20 PM

They tax the tip money they assume I already took home in cash.
err... why are they taking your $500 away?
i still don't understand that part. i understand the taxing of the tips part, but you're saying that they actually take away your tip money itself?
Essentially, the IRS now assumes that a waiter has made a certain percentage of tips.

Which is "fair" [1] if the waiter actually clears that percentage. But if the waiter actually makes less than that percentage, then they're getting bent over the table by the tax collector.

Nonetheless, it still helps to tip in cash. Pay with the card if you must, tip in cash.

[1] I'm not saying it's fair or unfair...not wanting to get into the whole other topic of whether or not waiters get compensated enough, overall.
right, so the IRS takes the tax on a certain amount of "assumed" income on gratuities. but isn't angel saying that the IRS is taking away the grauity itself? she said that $500 is assumed to be her tips, and then she subtracted $500 entirely from her check. am i missing something here?

[himura-dono]

:ph34r: ok, i was going to go back to waiting tables at this greek place in town, but fuck that.

[Chester]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 12:38 PM
she said that $500 is assumed to be her tips, and then she subtracted $500 entirely from her check. am i missing something here?
It's confusing.

I'm guessing that the $500 is the IRS's assumed tips and so they take all of it. Perhaps the reason why they're taxing her the entirety of her tip totals is due to her tip totals being so far below what the assumed percentage is.

For example, let's say the IRS assumes she makes 16% tips. Let's say she only makes 8%. If they tax her 50% on an assumed 16%, that means they take 100% of her 8% no? (This is taxing the limits of my math skills.)

Or maybe she's not mentioning the tips that go above the assumed percentage.

But, yeah...her breakdown didn't quite make complete sense to me either. I just understand the general rules.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Chester@May 2 2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 02:20 PM

They tax the tip money they assume I already took home in cash.
err... why are they taking your $500 away?
i still don't understand that part. i understand the taxing of the tips part, but you're saying that they actually take away your tip money itself?
Essentially, the IRS now assumes that a waiter has made a certain percentage of tips.

Which is "fair" [1] if the waiter actually clears that percentage. But if the waiter actually makes less than that percentage, then they're getting bent over the table by the tax collector.

Nonetheless, it still helps to tip in cash. Pay with the card if you must, tip in cash.

[1] I'm not saying it's fair or unfair...not wanting to get into the whole other topic of whether or not waiters get compensated enough, overall.
right, so the IRS takes the tax on a certain amount of "assumed" income on gratuities. but isn't angel saying that the IRS is taking away the grauity itself? she said that $500 is assumed to be her tips, and then she subtracted $500 entirely from her check. am i missing something here?
It's first ADDED onto the check, THEN subtracted. So this $500 is essentially IMAGINARY. They first ADD it onto your gross pay... so BEFORE taxes, my check would be $800. Then they tax me, then they disregard the $500 extra that was added earlier, then give me my money.


...now, these numbers are all just EXAMPLES. And it's not an ASSUMPTION that i get that $500 or however much it really is on my check... that's my credit card tips that automatically get counted and taxed. That can't be avoided 'cuz you have to enter your credit card tips through a computer. But really, cash tips don't add up to much, so it's a semi-accurate way of screwing us all over.

...And so yeah, it doesn't make any difference that they're subtracting that $500 away entirely because I've already TAKEN that $500 home in cash at the end of every shift during that pay period...

[angel nympho]

Yeah, sorry it's so confusing. It actually took me about a year to figure it out anyway... and I'm still not 100% sure that ONLY my credit card tips get taxed or what...

[haku]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 29 2003, 09:36 PM
In this century, we are going to see China rise. It is inevitable. SARS won't stop it. The US can't stop it. Their making a whole other US over their but in a different langauge and with different customs and with an economic power that will probably dominate the next century. The European Union and other growing countries will soon rise too. America, who has been in power for the last century, won't like it. People leaving power never like it. A State Senator, I believe it was Nancy Peplosi said one of the big problems we will be dealing in upcoming years are the discrimination against Asian-Americans because of what will be happening aboard.

First of all, what a stupid whitie chick! BLT is so unFOB it's scary. Ignorant disser.

Second of all: how proud should we be that "China is going to rise"? So perhaps a country with more POC's has some more economic and perhaps cultural clout, but it's just the triumph of capitalism (without restraints or protections), and probably corruption as well. Economic enslavement is just as bad as racial marginalization. They'll just be shaking hands with the US-megalomaniacs and going about business as usual.

The major media is corporate controlled. The government bows to corporate pressures over citizen concerns. The masses are fed opiates via journalistic religion, making us feel ooey-gooey about Jessica Lynch, while ignoring all kinds of brutality. In the US, Iraq, China, or India.

We need to fucking divest from this shit.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by haku@May 2 2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Apr 29 2003, 09:36 PM
In this century, we are going to see China rise.&nbsp; It is inevitable.&nbsp; SARS won't stop it.&nbsp; The US can't stop it.&nbsp; Their making a whole other US over their but in a different langauge and with different customs and with an economic power that will probably dominate the next century.&nbsp; The European Union and other growing countries will soon rise too.&nbsp; America, who has been in power for the last century, won't like it.&nbsp; People leaving power never like it.&nbsp; A State Senator, I believe it was Nancy Peplosi said one of the big problems we will be dealing in upcoming years are the discrimination against Asian-Americans because of what will be happening aboard.

First of all, what a stupid whitie chick! BLT is so unFOB it's scary. Ignorant disser.

Second of all: how proud should we be that "China is going to rise"? So perhaps a country with more POC's has some more economic and perhaps cultural clout, but it's just the triumph of capitalism (without restraints or protections), and probably corruption as well. Economic enslavement is just as bad as racial marginalization. They'll just be shaking hands with the US-megalomaniacs and going about business as usual.

The major media is corporate controlled. The government bows to corporate pressures over citizen concerns. The masses are fed opiates via journalistic religion, making us feel ooey-gooey about Jessica Lynch, while ignoring all kinds of brutality. In the US, Iraq, China, or India.

We need to fucking divest from this shit.
well, i personally am feeling great that china is on the rise because i'm planning on going back there. :P

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Chester@May 2 2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 2 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@May 2 2003, 02:20 PM

They tax the tip money they assume I already took home in cash.
err... why are they taking your $500 away?
i still don't understand that part. i understand the taxing of the tips part, but you're saying that they actually take away your tip money itself?
Essentially, the IRS now assumes that a waiter has made a certain percentage of tips.

Which is "fair" [1] if the waiter actually clears that percentage. But if the waiter actually makes less than that percentage, then they're getting bent over the table by the tax collector.

Nonetheless, it still helps to tip in cash. Pay with the card if you must, tip in cash.

[1] I'm not saying it's fair or unfair...not wanting to get into the whole other topic of whether or not waiters get compensated enough, overall.
right, so the IRS takes the tax on a certain amount of "assumed" income on gratuities. but isn't angel saying that the IRS is taking away the grauity itself? she said that $500 is assumed to be her tips, and then she subtracted $500 entirely from her check. am i missing something here?
It's first ADDED onto the check, THEN subtracted. So this $500 is essentially IMAGINARY. They first ADD it onto your gross pay... so BEFORE taxes, my check would be $800. Then they tax me, then they disregard the $500 extra that was added earlier, then give me my money.


...now, these numbers are all just EXAMPLES. And it's not an ASSUMPTION that i get that $500 or however much it really is on my check... that's my credit card tips that automatically get counted and taxed. That can't be avoided 'cuz you have to enter your credit card tips through a computer. But really, cash tips don't add up to much, so it's a semi-accurate way of screwing us all over.

...And so yeah, it doesn't make any difference that they're subtracting that $500 away entirely because I've already TAKEN that $500 home in cash at the end of every shift during that pay period...
so right, basically they're taking an X amount in tax money that is a percentage of a Y amount of assumed income in gratuity. and that 500 is not actually the tips you made. they first do actually add 500 to your check, and that's additional to the actual tips you made, but then subtract 500 from it at the end.

[mr. x]

wait how the hell did we go from hating thyself to taxes?

[ChinaLama]

she hates herself for paying taxes on her tips. and everyone hates taxes. everyone pays taxes. hence everyone hates themselves b/c they hate paying taxes.

ok that didnt make sense. i just hate all of you, ok?! :angry: j/k

[SunWuKong]

oh you know what. angel's math just completely made sense to me now. i don't know why i didn't get it earlier today.