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sandra
03-02-2003, 02:11 PM
Patriot Act's Big Brother
Mar 01, 2003
By Davi Cole, The Nation

In early February, the Center for Public Integrity disclosed a leaked draft of the Bush Administration's next round in the war on terrorism--the Domestic Security Enhancement Act (DSEA). The draft legislation, stamped Confidential and dated January 9, 2003, appears to be in final form but has not yet been introduced in Congress. Presumably the Administration had determined that the timing would be more propitious for passage--meaning less propitious for reasoned debate--after we go to war with Iraq. But it is one thing to play politics with the timing of a farm bill; it is another matter to do so with a bill that would radically alter our rights and freedoms.

If the Patriot Act was so named to imply that those who question its sweeping new powers of surveillance, detention and prosecution are traitors, the DSEA takes that theme one giant step further. It provides that any citizen, even native-born, who supports even the lawful activities of an organization the executive branch deems "terrorist" is presumptively stripped of his or her citizenship. To date, the "war on terrorism" has largely been directed at noncitizens, especially Arabs and Muslims. But the DSEA would actually turn citizens associated with "terrorist" groups into aliens.

They would then be subject to the deportation power, which the DSEA would expand to give the Attorney General the authority to deport any noncitizen whose presence he deems a threat to our "national defense, foreign policy or economic interests." One federal court of appeals has already ruled that this
standard is not susceptible to judicial review. So this provision would give the Attorney General unreviewable authority to deport any noncitizen he chooses, with no need to prove that the person has engaged in any criminal or harmful conduct.

A US citizen stripped of his citizenship and ordered deported would presumably have nowhere to go. But another provision authorizes the Attorney General to deport persons "to any country or region regardless of whether the country or region has a government." And failing deportation to Somalia (or a similar place), the Justice Department has issued a regulation empowering it to detain indefinitely suspected terrorists who are ordered deported but cannot be removed because they are stateless or their country of origin refuses to take them back.

Other provisions are designed to further insulate the war on terrorism from public and judicial scrutiny. The bill would authorize secret arrests, a practice common in totalitarian regimes but never before authorized in the
United States. It would terminate court orders barring illegal police spying entered before September 11, 2001, without regard to the need for judicial supervision. It would allow secret government wiretaps and searches without even a warrant from the supersecret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court when Congress has authorized the use of force. And it would give the government the same access to credit reports as private companies, without judicial supervision. Historically, we have imposed a higher threshold, and judicial oversight, on government access to such private information, because government has the motive and the wherewithal to abuse the information in ways private companies generally do not.

But the trajectory of the war on terrorism is probably best illustrated by an obscure provision that would eliminate the distinction between domestic terrorism and international terrorism for a host of investigatory purposes. The Administration's argument sounds reasonable enough--terrorism is terrorism, whether it's within the United States or has an international component. But in the Patriot Act debates, the Administration argued that it should be afforded broader surveillance powers over "international terrorism" because such acts are simultaneously a matter of domestic law enforcement and foreign intelligence. Because foreign intelligence gathering has traditionally been subject to looser standards than criminal law enforcement, the government argued, the looser standards should extend to domestic investigations of "international terrorism." But now it proposes to extend the same loose standards to investigations of wholly domestic crimes.

The DSEA's treatment of expatriation and domestic terrorism are harbingers of things to come. Thus far, much of the war on terrorism has been targeted at foreign nationals and sold to the American people on that ground. Americans' rights are not at stake, the argument goes, because we're concerned with "international" crime committed mostly by "aliens." With the DSEA, however, the Administration seeks to transgress both the alien-citizen line, by turning citizens into aliens for their political ties, and the domestic-international line, extending to wholly domestic criminal-law-enforcement tools that were previously reserved for international terrorism investigations.

How will Congress respond? Thus far, when citizens' rights have been directly threatened, Congress has taken civil liberties seriously. Most recently, it blocked the Pentagon's Total Information Awareness data-mining program. But it blocked it only as applied to US citizens. As long as the Pentagon violates only foreign nationals' privacy, Congress in effect said, Go ahead. But that tactic--protecting citizens' rights while ignoring those of foreign nationals--is untenable, not only on moral grounds but because if the Administration gets its way, we are all potentially "aliens."

SunWuKong
03-02-2003, 02:15 PM
land of the free, baby.
blech.
oh well, i've never thought that "freedom" was what made america great anyway. it's its wealth.

MellowDrama
03-02-2003, 02:55 PM
DSEA is facially unconstitutional.

pfc beansprout
03-02-2003, 04:14 PM
*cough* bullshit *cough*

ism
03-02-2003, 04:28 PM
The ACLU's section-by-section analysis can be found here (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11835&c=206&Type=s). Very chilling stuff. Some excerpts:

Allowing for the sampling and cataloguing of innocent Americans’ genetic information without court order and without consent. (Sections 301-306)

Granting immunity to businesses that provide information to the government in terrorism investigations, even if their actions are taken with disregard for their customers’ privacy or other rights and show reckless disregard for the truth. Such immunity could provide an incentive for neighbor to spy on neighbor and pose problems similar to those inherent in Attorney General Ashcroft’s “Operation TIPS.” (Section 313)

Permitting arrests and extraditions of Americans to any foreign country – including those whose governments do not respect the rule of law or human rights – in the absence of a Senate-approved treaty and without allowing an American judge to consider the extraditing country’s legal system or human rights record. (Section 322)

sandra
03-02-2003, 04:31 PM
i wonder if you have to know that you're donating to a terrorist organization...and what level of knowledge is required. because many of these organizations have not be found to be terrorist organizations by any court system. rather, they have just been deemed terrorist organizations by the executive branch, which does not share its information with the judicial branch. so will we be punishing those who have no idea that they're doing anything wrong? i mean, i could donate to a church group and later find out that the government has deemed that group a terrorist organization. i'd no longer be a citizen. i wonder if they'd try to deport me to china - even though i was only 6 years old the last time i was there.

ism
03-02-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Mar 2 2003, 07:31 PM
i wonder if you have to know that you're donating to a terrorist organization...and what level of knowledge is required.
Text of "Patriot Act II" (draft) (http://www.dailyrotten.com/source-docs/patriot2draft.html)

Some pertinent info regarding your question is in section 501
Section 501: Expatriation of Terrorists.

Under 8 U.S.C. § 1481, an American can lose his citizenship by voluntarily, and with the intent to relinquish nationality, taking any of a number of actions, including: (1) obtaining Nationality in a foreign state; (2) taking an oath of allegiance to a foreign state; and, most importantly, (3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state that are engaged in hostilities against the United States. The current expatriation statute does not, however, provide for the relinquishing of citizenship in cases where an American serves in a hostile foreign terrorist organization. It thus fails to take account of the myriad ways in which, in the modern world, war can be waged against the United States.

This provision would amend 8 U.S.C. § 1481 to make clear that, just as an American can relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile foreign army, so can he relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile terrorist organization. Specifically, an American could be expatriated if, with the intent to relinquish nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a "terrorist organization," if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States.

I'm not a lawyer, so maybe you can clarify if "intent to relinquish..." also means intent to aid an organization in hostilities against the United States. Intent of anything is not clearly specified in the 2nd paragraph, but is generally required in English common law, so it's a bit unclear to me.

The other thing about this section is how would this affect people who are both U.S. and Israel citizens and serve in the IDF? Point 3 requires the nation to be "engaged in hostilities" to the United States, but is that also a requirement for points 1 and 2?

sandra
03-02-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by ism@Mar 2 2003, 04:40 PM
Text of "Patriot Act II" (draft) (http://www.dailyrotten.com/source-docs/patriot2draft.html)

Some pertinent info regarding your question is in section 501
Section 501: Expatriation of Terrorists.

Under 8 U.S.C. § 1481, an American can lose his citizenship by voluntarily, and with the intent to relinquish nationality, taking any of a number of actions, including: (1) obtaining Nationality in a foreign state; (2) taking an oath of allegiance to a foreign state; and, most importantly, (3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state that are engaged in hostilities against the United States. The current expatriation statute does not, however, provide for the relinquishing of citizenship in cases where an American serves in a hostile foreign terrorist organization. It thus fails to take account of the myriad ways in which, in the modern world, war can be waged against the United States.

This provision would amend 8 U.S.C. § 1481 to make clear that, just as an American can relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile foreign army, so can he relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile terrorist organization. Specifically, an American could be expatriated if, with the intent to relinquish nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a "terrorist organization," if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States.

I'm not a lawyer, so maybe you can clarify if "intent to relinquish..." also means intent to aid an organization in hostilities against the United States. Intent is not clearly specified, but is generally required in English common law, so it's a bit unclear to me.

The other thing about this section is how would this affect people who are both U.S. and Israel citizens and serve in the IDF? Point 3 requires the nation to be "engaged in hostilities" to the United States, but is that also a requirement for points 1 and 2?
hm...that doesn't seem to say anything about donating money to a terrorist organization.

ism
03-02-2003, 04:50 PM
This provision would amend 8 U.S.C. § 1481 to make clear that, just as an American can relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile foreign army, so can he relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile terrorist organization. Specifically, an American could be expatriated if, with the intent to relinquish nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a "terrorist organization," if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States.

hm...that doesn't seem to say anything about donating money to a terrorist organization.
Is "provides material support to" vague enough to cover donations?

sandra
03-02-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by ism@Mar 2 2003, 04:50 PM
This provision would amend 8 U.S.C. § 1481 to make clear that, just as an American can relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile foreign army, so can he relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile terrorist organization. Specifically, an American could be expatriated if, with the intent to relinquish nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a "terrorist organization," if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States.

hm...that doesn't seem to say anything about donating money to a terrorist organization.
Is "provides material support to" vague enough to cover donations?
yes. thanks. so i think all you have to do is - donate. because the intent to relinquish is probably presumed if you donate to them, right? i mean, the act wouldn't do much good if it would allow a person to donate to a deemed terrorist organization and then later claim that he didn't have any intent on relinquishing his nationality, right?

SunWuKong
03-02-2003, 06:15 PM
so much for checks and balances between the three branches of the government

angelwiththesword
03-02-2003, 08:26 PM
lets all crack open that bottle of Victory Gin and waltz into Room 101!

anne
03-02-2003, 08:33 PM
Is "provides material support to" vague enough to cover donations?

Yes this is broad language. Material support denotes both monetary and non-monetary donations. The language in this act is scary and it basically tosses our Constitution out the window. The executive branch currently maintains their own list of terrorist and suspected terroist organizations. "Suspected" is also quite a subjective word, so I wonder.... I mean, if you happen to donate money, blankets or other provisions to a human rights organization that assists the victims of the bombings in the Middle East, and if that organization happens to help an injured person who may be or have family who may have associations according to that list, then with all the hysteria and the Act II, I would not be surprised to see that the human rights organization would be added to the suspected terrorist group list along with the names of the contributors to that group.

Sad, very sad.

A person who reliquishes his nationality would be one without a state. To where would they deport people? That's an interesting question. INS usually deports people to the country of origin. So I assume if your Japanese, you'd be deported to Japan (provided that Japan will take you), even if you're 3rd generation, but what about people for whom a direct lineage cannot be traced? What if you're a white American with a very mixed European heritage? :confused: Another scary thought is that if you become deported based on the Patriot Act II, other nations may not agree to receive for several reasons, one being that they may not want a "suspected terrorist" on their soil.

SunWuKong
03-02-2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by anne@Mar 2 2003, 11:33 PM
So I assume if your Japanese, you'd be deported to Japan (provided that Japan will take you), even if you're 3rd generation, but what about people for whom a direct lineage cannot be traced? What if you're a white American with a very mixed European heritage? :confused:
canada :)

ism
03-02-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by anne@Mar 2 2003, 11:33 PM
A person who reliquishes his nationality would be one without a state. To where would they deport people? That's an interesting question. INS usually deports people to the country of origin. So I assume if your Japanese, you'd be deported to Japan (provided that Japan will take you), even if you're 3rd generation, but what about people for whom a direct lineage cannot be traced? What if you're a white American with a very mixed European heritage? :confused: Another scary thought is that if you become deported based on the Patriot Act II, other nations may not agree to receive for several reasons, one being that they may not want a "suspected terrorist" on their soil.
A person without a state... like the guy stranded at an airport for over a decade (http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/airport.htm).

Rogmok
03-03-2003, 05:34 AM
its like a witch hunt... thats a lot of power to give to a gov't that has shown inability to use that power effectively nor judiciously