Non-U.S. students jailed over class load

[Craig]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/12/27/fo...s.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/12/27/foreign.students.ap/index.html)

Non-U.S. students jailed over class load

Friday, December 27, 2002 Posted: 10:23 AM EST (1523 GMT)

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- At least six Middle Eastern students studying in Colorado have been jailed in the past 10 days for failing to take enough college classes as required by their student visas.

The students ran into trouble when they showed up to register with U.S. immigration officials, as required by new rules to track foreign students.

When they reported, they were jailed and required to post $5,000 bonds for enrolling in less than 12 hours of college credit.

The Immigration and Naturalization Service says the students are being detained because under-enrollment is a violation of their student visas. The students are not suspected of any other offense.

"We're concerned about the heavy-handed nature of the enforcement and their lack of understanding of their own regulations," said Chris Johnson, director of international education at the University of Colorado at Denver. "Students are being detained unfairly and callously."

One University of Colorado at Denver student was jailed last week because he was one hour shy of a full load after receiving college permission to drop a course, Johnson said.

"I don't believe this is helping us with the war on terrorism," said Mark Hallett, director of international student services at Colorado State University. "We're alienating people who could be our best friends and ambassadors once they return to their countries."

The Middle Eastern students were jailed for up to 48 hours before posting bond. Three attend UCD, two study at CU-Boulder, and one attends Colorado State University.

College officials expect more to be detained during a second round of January registrations at the INS district office in Denver.

Congress ordered federal registrations by December 16 for males 16 and older carrying temporary visas from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya and Sudan -- countries identified by the State Department as having ties to terrorism.

A January 10 deadline is for men from the United Arab Emirates, North Korea, Morocco, Afghanistan and nine other countries. Two more rounds of registrations will follow with the goal of tracking most foreign nationals by 2005.

"As far as the INS is concerned, this system was put in place in Congress to combat the war on terrorism. We're carrying out their wishes. This is a policy issue," said Nina Pruneda, INS regional public affairs officer.

The INS wants to ensure that international students are diligently pursuing a degree, she said.

[Commando_turned_MD]

You broke the law.....do the time.......
Student visas requires you to enrolled in atleast 12 semester hr. Fail to do so means you are not living up to your part of the contract.......


Granted there are extenuating circumstances.......e.g, death in the family, etc..etc....
But the article doesn't specify that so............I will not take that into account.........

[applehead]

i never thought the 12 credit rule was fair.
but i think the main point of the article is that the government is targeting men of certain races. doesn't most foreign students, who are not enrolled for 12 credits, just have their visas revoked, instead of being thrown in jail?

[SunWuKong]

this is such bullshit
revoking their visas, that's understandable. jail time - bullshit.

[deez nuts]

They shouldn't have been slacking off.

STOP DRINKING and FUCKING! STUDY MORE. PUNKS!

Slackers.

12 credits are nuthing if you're a parachute kid with rich mommy and daddy paying your way. How eff'ing hard can it be. Spoiled punk ass brats. Prolly blew the tuition money on a hot ride. Come on 12 credits?!?!?! Gimme a break. Put em in jail for being stupid fucks and see ya! Studying here is a priviledge not a right. That's all they have to do is study, everything is prolly paid for, how hard is it?

I'm more sympathetic towards the foreign student working hours supporting themselves while at the same time taking on a load to qualify for a full time student. I give those cats props.

Edit: yeah I hate spoiled parachute kids.

[pfc beansprout]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Dec 30 2002, 02:49 PM
this is such bullshit
revoking their visas, that's understandable. jail time - bullshit.
good point.......... :huh:

[axi0m]

I'm taking 19 hours next semester. Hmph.

-Satoshi-

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I agree with CSB. 12 semester hours is a fucking joke. for the first two years of college I took 20 semester hours while working two part-time jobs. my GPA wasn't great but I didn't fail anything.

the article is obviously trying to evoke sympathy for the offenders, but the best they can come up with is that one guy, presumably the least serious offender, was "only one hour short of a full course load?" That means 11 credits. I guess the others were taking what, 9? Look at it on a case-by-case basis. If they were working at jobs for more than 25 hours a week, maybe that would justify being one credit short or ending up one credit short cuz they failed a class.

But if they're just taking 11 credits and doing jack shit else with their time, jail's too good for them. That wastes the tax dollars of hardworking people who actually engage in productive activity. Give 'em a good smack on the ass and send 'em back home.

[lethal]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 30 2002, 06:04 PM
I'm more sympathetic towards the foreign student working hours supporting themselves while at the same time taking on a load to qualify for a full time student. I give those cats props.
Foreign kids on student visas aren't allowed to work except for on-campus work-study jobs, if they qualify.

[LeahLe]

That serves them right. They should be punished for not following up with the INS 's requirements....but putting in jail is a littler harsh though. I could understand if their visas were revoked from them.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by lethalweapon@Dec 31 2002, 03:58 AM
Foreign kids on student visas aren't allowed to work except for on-campus work-study jobs, if they qualify.
Wow didn't know that.

I knew a few Chinese foreign students when I was in Columbia that worked part time in Chinese restaurants, no wonder they were so hush-hush about it.


Jail is harsh for lacking credits. Maybe probation for the first offense and go from there. **shrugz**

[pfc beansprout]

u got to put "2 and 2 together...." yes, they were under the min. req. for credits to enroll...but the major factor here is that they were mid-eastern dissent...i know many HK international students at my school who many times drop classes mid-quarter/go p/t in school...i highly doubt they would be jailed anytime soon....

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 31 2002, 10:30 AM
Wow didn't know that.

I knew a few Chinese foreign students when I was in Columbia that worked part time in Chinese restaurants, no wonder they were so hush-hush about it.


Jail is harsh for lacking credits. Maybe probation for the first offense and go from there. **shrugz**
yeah. i know chinese students on student visas that are working on off-campus jobs illegally. it's either that or not make enough money to cover tuition. there's zero financial aid for international students.

[pfc beansprout]

~no doubt...school is expensive for us..imagine the rates for them....jeez, i couldn't imagine....'specially if you were overseas studyin and you are short on funds, you would do what u had to do to survive...ya know

[lethal]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 31 2002, 10:30 AM
Wow didn't know that.

I knew a few Chinese foreign students when I was in Columbia that worked part time in Chinese restaurants, no wonder they were so hush-hush about it.


Jail is harsh for lacking credits. Maybe probation for the first offense and go from there. **shrugz**
Yeah...the guys you knew probably worked for cash under the table and whatever tips they got. Lots of people do that, otherwise school's expensive...and they're paying the international rate, which is even higher than the out-of-state rate for public schools or the regular rate for U.S. students.

I'm all for enforcing regulations, but the punishment should be proportional to the "crime."

Jail? Deportation? I mean these kids broke regulations, it is more akin to a traffic violation than a felony or misdemeanor.

[applehead]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 30 2002, 03:04 PM
They shouldn't have been slacking off.

STOP DRINKING and FUCKING! STUDY MORE.  PUNKS!

Slackers.

12 credits are nuthing if you're a parachute kid with rich mommy and daddy paying your way.  How eff'ing hard can it be.  Spoiled punk ass brats.  Prolly blew the tuition money on a hot ride.  Come on 12 credits?!?!?! Gimme a break.  Put em in jail for being stupid fucks and see ya! Studying here is a priviledge not a right.  That's all they have to do is study, everything is prolly paid for, how hard is it?

I'm more sympathetic towards the foreign student working hours supporting themselves while at the same time taking on a load to qualify for a full time student.  I give those cats props.

Edit: yeah I hate spoiled parachute kids.
12 credits for us is a breeze.
12 credits for foreign students without much exposure to the english language isn't that easy.
even it the student did do well on their TOEFL.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by applehead@Dec 31 2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 30 2002, 03:04 PM
They shouldn't have been slacking off.

STOP DRINKING and FUCKING! STUDY MORE. PUNKS!

Slackers.

12 credits are nuthing if you're a parachute kid with rich mommy and daddy paying your way. How eff'ing hard can it be. Spoiled punk ass brats. Prolly blew the tuition money on a hot ride. Come on 12 credits?!?!?! Gimme a break. Put em in jail for being stupid fucks and see ya! Studying here is a priviledge not a right. That's all they have to do is study, everything is prolly paid for, how hard is it?

I'm more sympathetic towards the foreign student working hours supporting themselves while at the same time taking on a load to qualify for a full time student. I give those cats props.

Edit: yeah I hate spoiled parachute kids.
12 credits for us is a breeze.
12 credits for foreign students without much exposure to the english language isn't that easy.
even it the student did do well on their TOEFL.
Wow that's funny cuz a lot of the parachute kids I knew went to boarding school here in the US for high school, i.e. Exeter?, Georgetown Prep. Their command of the English language is really proficient.

Most of em I know were here for school way before college. Some as early as junior high school. If they were here as early as junior high, which is around the same time I immigrated to the US. And I was taking around 18-20 credits a semester as an undergrad plus I was working jobs to help pay for my tuition, living expenses and books. The class load wasn't all that uncommon amongst my group of friends that I grew up with; that were in the same boat I was in i.e. recently immigrated to the US with parents barely scraping by and needing help with college tuition and expenses with us having to work part-time jobs during the school year.

There are exceptions, I agree. But some of the foreign students I knew weren't as helpless in the English language as you might think and plus they came from wealthy families.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by applehead@Jan 1 2003, 10:41 AM
12 credits for us is a breeze.
12 credits for foreign students without much exposure to the english language isn't that easy.
even it the student did do well on their TOEFL.
If you have a group of friends who speak the same mother tongue as you in the same major as you (highly likely for Middle Eastern students in the US studying business or scientific majors), it's not that bad. If you're only taking 12 units, you have damn well enough time every week to translate your assigned readings to arabic and back, let alone looking up a few words in the dictionary and asking your friends what a certain passage means.

I actually just spent the past 4 months taking 18 units of classes in Cantonese, a language which I never studied formally, but just learned from TV and friends. Notes and textbooks were written in Chinese - I've only learned written Chinese for about 5 years. I passed my classes without the benefit of a support network of other friends from my own country who were in the same classes and spoke my mother tongue (no other exchange students were taking the same classes I did). Furthermore the university I attended had no "CSL" (Chinese-as-a-second-language) center the way US universities have ESL centers complete with writing counselors, tutoring, people to help you word stuff properly for presentations, etc.

Come on. It's 12 freakin units.

[applehead]

okay. well. my friends who are foreign students don't have it so easy and they also work illegally, to pay bills.
so maybe that's why i'm a bit sympathetic towards them.

[Commando_turned_MD]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Dec 31 2002, 07:30 AM
Maybe probation for the first offense and go from there.  **shrugz**
Dont tell me you're getting soft :D
I like the original response better..............Bunch of fucking slackers......period.
12 Semester hr is child's play........During undergrad, I took 20 sem hrs plus a freaking job.....Although my GPA was not super, it was not horrible.....No "C"s

It not that fucking hard to attend lectures and do the HW.....That's all you have to do.....

So BOO fucking HOO........ :P
Hopefully they learned their lesson..........After all, like DOC BUNBOY stated, it's a privilege not a right study in America.......If you don't have the intellectual capacity to study here, GO ELSEWHERE.....................which basically means......Get the fuck out of here..... :P


my .02 :P

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by armycommando_turned_doctor@Jan 3 2003, 02:40 PM
Do tell me you're getting soft :D

I'm a sensitive and understanding man deep down inside.

[pfc beansprout]

~it's a different language to them, maybe they have economic reasons, maybe their major is really hard (engineering, medical, etc)...we don't know...all the article says is they were jailed and a possible link to that reason is they were of mid eastern dissent....we have some geniuses up in this piece who to them 12 credits is a walk in the park..let's cut them some slack....