Asians and Indians?

[Zdrav]

I know that technically speaking, Asians (of the Eastern variety) and Indians are both Asians, geographically speaking. To me, that terms was always meaningless, because culturally, linguistically, and racially, East Asians and Indians are quite different.

Lately, I've been hanging out with a lot of Indians, and I can't help but wonder if I so enjoy being around them because they're great people (they are), or due to some kind of cultural affinity?

All I know is that I'm having way more fun with my Indian friends than I did with my white friends (in college) or my Filipino friends (in high school). I'm Korean-American, btw.

One thing I do appreciate is that when I hang out with Indian guys, I don't feel as much a need to disprove stereotypes as I do when I hang around white guys. I feel like they know what it's like to have one's masculinity constantly doubted, so there's a kind of connection there.

Plus, Indian girls are very attractive. I think girls of all ethnicities are attractive, but if I had to play favourites, Indians might be up there among the top.

When I was growing up, my parents always spoke badly of Indians (for being rude, cheap, ethnically exclusive), so is there actually a cultural dis-affinity?

What do you think?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I got along pretty well with Indians back in university in the US ... my senior year roommates in college were a bunch of Indians (and one Tibetan guy who grew up in Dharamsala and spoke Hindi). On the other hand, in Malaysia I never felt any special connection to Indians even though we're both minorities.

When I was growing up, my parents always spoke badly of Indians (for being rude, cheap, ethnically exclusive), so is there actually a cultural dis-affinity?
Well, everyone says the same shit about every other group besides their own. It's hardly an example of cultural disaffinity, just people being ignorant. Pretty much every immigrant group are rude, cheap, and exclusive when viewed by outsiders who judge them by their own culture's standards of politeness.

[j&j2]

All I know is that I'm having way more fun with my Indian friends than I did with my white friends (in college) or my Filipino friends (in high school). I'm Korean-American, btw.

One thing I do appreciate is that when I hang out with Indian guys, I don't feel as much a need to disprove stereotypes as I do when I hang around white guys. I feel like they know what it's like to have one's masculinity constantly doubted, so there's a kind of connection there.

Plus, Indian girls are very attractive. I think girls of all ethnicities are attractive, but if I had to play favourites, Indians might be up there among the top.

Some of my closest friends throughout the years have been Indian/Pakistani (more so than any East Asian).

Kinda weird tho, for every social group (mixed, but mostly white) over the years - it seemed like there was a limit on the no. of each minority group, as if too many minorities of the same persuasion would disrupt the order of things (others have noted that as well in their experience).

But yeah, some Indian women are really gorgeous.

When I was growing up, my parents always spoke badly of Indians (for being rude, cheap, ethnically exclusive), so is there actually a cultural dis-affinity?

Hey, that's what the Indians think of the Chinese (according to Russell Peters - lol).

[Dimeron]

Same here.

IMO it is because while culture is different, values and background tends to be similar.

What are the typical Indian/Pakistani people you see? they tends to be either first or second generation from immigrant backgrounds, and most tends to value education, hard-work, and financial stability. Now doesn't that sound familiar.

Add the fact they are also "small" minority group just like East Asians, they have a lot in common in East Asians. From personal experience, South Asians are probably the most common minorities (besides East Asians) you will encounter day-to-day basis if you are a yuppie (and work in the high tech field).

[Paradox]

A few comments..most of your experiences are with _AMERICANIZED_ indian americans..or at least extensively westernized ones. Spend some time in Dubai or some place with a super high expatriate indian population and your views change pretty quickly. As unfortunate as it is there is some truth to the cheap, lying, etc.. stereotype. The resident indian population in Thailand is very much like this and are shunned by Thais and expats alike.

[monkeygone2]

most of your experiences are with _AMERICANIZED_ indian americans...

As unfortunate as it is there is some truth to the cheap, lying, etc.. stereotype.

You are very content being a miserable ignoramus, so why should I bother pointing out your illogical prejudice. You'll just go on believing what you believe.

[Paradox]

You are very content being a miserable ignoramus, so why should I bother pointing out your illogical prejudice. You'll just go on believing what you believe.
I didn't say it was absolutely true across the board but there's a reason why such stereotypes exist. There's a kernel of truth in the behavior of some of the expatriate indians. This doesn't apply to westernized indians anyways.

Stop being so PC and defensive.

edit: And try traveling outside the broom closet that is the USA.

[YelloFello]

A few comments..most of your experiences are with _AMERICANIZED_ indian americans..or at least extensively westernized ones. Spend some time in Dubai or some place with a super high expatriate indian population and your views change pretty quickly. As unfortunate as it is there is some truth to the cheap, lying, etc.. stereotype. The resident indian population in Thailand is very much like this and are shunned by Thais and expats alike.

Oh yes, definitely. I heard that about the Chinese too. It must be true.

[Zdrav]

Same here.

IMO it is because while culture is different, values and background tends to be similar.

What are the typical Indian/Pakistani people you see? they tends to be either first or second generation from immigrant backgrounds, and most tends to value education, hard-work, and financial stability. Now doesn't that sound familiar.

Add the fact they are also "small" minority group just like East Asians, they have a lot in common in East Asians. From personal experience, South Asians are probably the most common minorities (besides East Asians) you will encounter day-to-day basis if you are a yuppie (and work in the high tech field).

Also, there are many Jews who hang out in our group as well. Everybody seems to know each other from the same pre-med classes.

I certainly do feel a common connection when we talk about overbearing parents, culture gaps (especially with 1st or 2nd generation Indians), and all those other things unique to children of immigrants.

I find it strange, however, that I should feel comfortable among Indians rather than among Asians. Maybe I enjoy the distinction of being one of the few Asians in the group (it's a situation I've gotten used to, and I've never been belonged to an all-Asian clique before).

[Paradox]

Oh yes, definitely. I heard that about the Chinese too. It must be true.

Actually i'd be the first to admit that a lot of Chinese (who grew up in Chinese culture) tend to put business in front of personal relationships and are narrow-minded about a lot of things. There are cultural flaws anywhere except individuals overcome this and usually don't have the same mindset if they grow up in a different environment.

I'm just not insecure about pointing these things out nor am I trying hard to pretend away race/cultural differences to be college PC like some people.

I can understand why a lot of these issues are difficult for some asian-americans to come to terms with though. Admitting fault is the first step to accepting change. Unfortunately, AA's like to sweep shit under the rug and pretend to be white.

[AngryABCGirl]

What is with the doubting of each other's experiences game going on here?

[j&j2]

I find it strange, however, that I should feel comfortable among Indians rather than among Asians. Maybe I enjoy the distinction of being one of the few Asians in the group (it's a situation I've gotten used to, and I've never been belonged to an all-Asian clique before).

You have the "I wanna feel special" syndrome (which is similar to the "I feel awkward around just Asians" syndrome).

[Zdrav]

You have the "I wanna feel special" syndrome (which is similar to the "I feel awkward around just Asians" syndrome).

Perhaps. But mainly, I think I enjoy the feeling, or illusion, that I'm out there fighting stereotypes.

[Paradox]

Perhaps. But mainly, I think I enjoy the feeling, or illusion, that I'm out there fighting stereotypes.
If you shun other asians and generally feel insecure and want to be the unique token in a mixed race group then I don't think you're fighting stereotypes, bro.

[snailpoo]

What is with the doubting of each other's experiences game going on here?

Because throughout the history of racial discourse, racists always utilize "experiences" (and a little pseudoscience) as justification for their prejudices? Shouldn't we be a little wary whenever anyone tries to utilize their experiences to support stereotypes?

[Zdrav]

If you shun other asians and generally feel insecure and want to be the unique token in a mixed race group then I don't think you're fighting stereotypes, bro.

I don't shun Asians any more than I shun Jews or blacks or fratboys or hipsters. I just go where my social interactions take me. For example, I never thought that I'd have a strong core of Indian friends, but things just happened that way. I didn't go out of my way to meet them.

[monkeygone2]

What is with the doubting of each other's experiences game going on here?

It's like racist mad libs.

In my experience _______ people are liars and cheats.

We've heard "Indians" in this thread, already.

[Craig]

It's like racist mad libs.

In my experience _______ people are liars and cheats.

We've heard "Indians" in this thread, already.Let me add the word "most" ... although technically it breaks the racial rules, it seems immensely more accurate.

[ibc28com]

I got along pretty well with Indians back in university in the US ... my senior year roommates in college were a bunch of Indians (and one Tibetan guy who grew up in Dharamsala and spoke Hindi). On the other hand, in Malaysia I never felt any special connection to Indians even though we're both minorities.


Well, everyone says the same shit about every other group besides their own. It's hardly an example of cultural disaffinity, just people being ignorant. Pretty much every immigrant group are rude, cheap, and exclusive when viewed by outsiders who judge them by their own culture's standards of politeness.

Indian are very expert in IT field. Some are very good DR & Lawyer.
However, there are still many many low class 'pariah'.
Gorgeous Indian girl mostly from Bollywood industry.

[monkeygone2]

Indian are very expert in IT field. Some are very good DR & Lawyer.
However, there are still many many low class 'pariah'.
Gorgeous Indian girl mostly from Bollywood industry.

IT expert, low class pariah, and Bollywood girls... LOL

Suck it.

[User1]

indians r asians by geography...but not by culture and race

I don't really understand indians though...they seem kind of weird to me

[J-Town]

I don't refer to Native Americans as Indians.

[Paradox]

indians r asians by geography...but not by culture and race

I don't really understand indians though...they seem kind of weird to me

The original indian culture prior to the mid-12th century was fairly religiously complex and advanced when it came to literature. It had lots of influence over SE Asia and China through Buddhism although it was never a substantial military or mercantile threat to the eastern Chinese or Central asian dynasties. You can read about Nālanda University and realize the slow gradual decline of Indian civilization began after they were conquered by the turkic muslims.

Then around the 16th century they've spent about 400-500 years under European colonialism and it's been pretty much all downhill until recently. Not that China had it much better in the "century of humiliation" but India's culture truly got raped and pillaged by the Muslims and Euros.

[sageb1]

A few comments..most of your experiences are with _AMERICANIZED_ indian americans..or at least extensively westernized ones. Spend some time in Dubai or some place with a super high expatriate indian population and your views change pretty quickly. As unfortunate as it is there is some truth to the cheap, lying, etc.. stereotype. The resident indian population in Thailand is very much like this and are shunned by Thais and expats alike.

Youtube has videos of a drunk South Asian being rude and prone to violence in Thailand on their buses.

IMHO that reflects on Thai culture.

Overall, my experienced with South Asians leads me to conclude that the young men need a dose of reality to prevent them from suffering from the spoilt child syndrome, which could lead to conflict with other cultures in adulthood (tho this is also prevalent among other cultures).

As a rule, South Asian men respect mothers very much and the elderly especially. So in order to get them to respect Western mores, it's best to get an older woman who is married and a mother to get them to toe the line.

That this hasn't been done in the case of gang leaders is not surprising, seeing as the criminal justice system shows baldly how patriarchal Western culture is.

Overall, young Indian males needs a mother figure to set rules for them, because their fathers tend to spoil them rotten.

[Paradox]

Youtube has videos of a drunk South Asian being rude and prone to violence in Thailand on their buses.

IMHO that reflects on Thai culture.


No it doesn't because Indians in Thailand are mostly a poorly integrated minority living in Indian enclaves. They live solely within an indian community. The only time they have any contact with Thais or other foreigners is when they are selling textiles. It's pretty far from the situation in a country like America where most people are thoroughly Americanized in one way or another.

To be honest the way minorities are in America is more "colonial" in nature. There's a political and social white washing that goes on with the anglo-saxon dominant culture. People don't want to admit it but even a lot of the racial stuff (interracial dating, stereotypes, etc..) is based on this colonial mentality.

In Thailand they are allowed to truly exist in their own cultural enclave. For better or for worse...

I have met Indians who are totally thai-ified though and they are 100% different than the Indians who live in the enclaves.

[sageb1]

No it doesn't because Indians in Thailand are mostly a poorly integrated minority living in Indian enclaves. They live solely within an indian community. The only time they have any contact with Thais or other foreigners is when they are selling textiles. It's pretty far from the situation in a country like America where most people are thoroughly Americanized in one way or another.

To be honest the way minorities are in America is more "colonial" in nature. There's a political and social white washing that goes on with the anglo-saxon dominant culture. People don't want to admit it but even a lot of the racial stuff (interracial dating, stereotypes, etc..) is based on this colonial mentality.

In Thailand they are allowed to truly exist in their own cultural enclave. For better or for worse...

I have met Indians who are totally thai-ified though and they are 100% different than the Indians who live in the enclaves.

That smells of "ghetto" mentality.

I don't refer to Native Americans as Indians.

Consider Natives Americans as Central Asians to beat it the hell out of Asia cos of all the fighting between Huns, Mongols and Tibetans long before 1492.

Some of their brothers even took to the sea as Polynesians.

IMHO the two great seafaring people of ancient times are Phoenicians (West Asians) and their Muslim descendants and Polynesians, whose ancestry may be followed back through SE Asia to Central Asia.

[snailpoo]

http://wordofpie.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/headdesk.jpg

[Paradox]

That smells of "ghetto" mentality.


Ghetto implies they are treated worse or forcefully segregated but it's really not the case when most choose to live apart. It's quite unlike the situation with Arabs or north africans in Europe for example..

The people here respect that decision at least. There's even one Thai-indian lawyer with a sikh turban who is well assimilated into the culture who appears on television here to give his 2 cents on law.

Matter of fact it's better to live in a true multi-cultural society than to be looked down upon in a tiered caste system like the commonwealth/anglo nations. The only appealing thing the U.S. has is the potential for greater wealth these days for poor or lower middle class immigrants and that's about it really.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

There's even one Thai-indian lawyer with a sikh turban who is well assimilated into the culture who appears on television here to give his 2 cents on law.
is he actually a Sikh or does he just play one on TV? like these guys:

http://businesswithlatinamerica.blogspot.com/2009/05/simmarpal-singh-peanut-prince-in.html
During my golf game at the Rio Cuarto Country Club on 16 May, the Argentine players asked me where they could buy a Turban and how to wear it. I asked them the reason for this special interest. They showed me a villa within the country club complex and said ¨Here lives an Indian Maharaja. He looks handsome with his Turban. When he goes to the night clubs , he gets premium service and gets it free because they think he is a Maharaja.¨ The Argentines wanted to wear Turbans and get the same special treatment at the night clubs.

The envy of the Argentines is Simmar Pal Singh, a Sikh from India. I clarified to the Argentines that Turbans do not mean Maharajas. They asked me to shut up and not to reveal this secret at the night clubs!

another random turban-related story from a Pepsi ad shoot in Xinjiang which sorta ties into how Chinese people see South Asians:
http://thechinabeat.blogspot.com/2008/11/catch-that-pepsi-spirit.html
The casting director... was originally from Hong Kong, went to the Vancouver Film School, and is now based in Shanghai—he spoke Cantonese and English wonderfully, but very little Mandarin—got in touch with a few foreigners who were well connected to the different expat communities in the city ... The Pakistani students in Urumchi are renowned for their isolation from other communities and given that most of them are only in China for a year to study and speak no Chinese, it is understandable. There is however, one fabulous benefit of having this lively student community in the city: there is an incredibly delicious Pakistani restaurant across the street from the Xinjiang Medical University.) There was a complete lack of cultural integrity on the part of the Hong Kong creatives with regards to the all-Muslim Pakistani students.

The costume director tried, albeit completely unsuccessfully, to get the Pakistani students to wear turbans. Not understanding why they were resisting so vehemently (one student put on a turban and they all took photos on their phones, which they promptly sent to the student's mother as a joke. Within minutes his phone was ringing and he was explaining himself to his mother, to the amusement of his classmates). She couldn’t come to an understanding with the students and finally, after some heated debate, a young woman in a full hejab noted stiffly: “The bottom line is that they won’t wear them. Accept it, or we all leave.” In the end, the Pakistani students ended up wearing bright green polo shirts and sported cricket bats.

[monkeygone2]

What is with the doubting of each other's experiences game going on here?
What is with the doubting of each other's experiences game going on here?

What is with the doubting of each other's experiences game going on here?Because throughout the history of racial discourse, racists always utilize "experiences" (and a little pseudoscience) as justification for their prejudices? Shouldn't we be a little wary whenever anyone tries to utilize their experiences to support stereotypes?

Just post your spam, already. This is why people no longer take message boards/forums seriously as tools for activism. Spammers, banned members who create brand new personas - the gang's all here.

[Broomer]

OK, I'm not going to be very PC here and I've got to say out right, I've got a lot of friends from the subcontinent. Basically, some of the best people I've ever known.

Now to the point where conflict may arise:

If you're from a Hong Kong background: All I've got to say is this: there used to be signs dotted around Hong Kong that said no dogs or chinamen. These building were normally guarded by Gurkas and other people from the subcontinent and they were pretty brutal. Even as a young kid I remember still seeing the odd one so thats saying a lot.

Few bad apples: I've seen an elderly woman being pushed over by a bunch of guys and they have no remorse for what they've done whatsoever, and unfortunately guess which cultural group they happened to look like? That's the point I need to drive home. People have misconception about what someone from the subcontinent might look like and they normally get it wrong. Just as a lot of Caucasians think Japanese, Chinese and Koreans looks all the same, the same is said for Indians, Pakistanis and Sri Lankans. Personally I've being mistaken with people from other countries as well, but thats the point. People remember the bad, rarely the good.

To take another angle on this also. It's very common for young people from the subcontinent to go out in rather large groups, which is quite intimatating for those who encounters these groups, and unfortunately, manners and courtesy is rather lacking in these large groups. I've seen the same thing happen in places like Hong Kong and Singapore as well.

Lack of mutual respect: Let's be honest here. We've all seen ribbing between the two cultural groups, its quite enjoyable. The problem though, is that there are individuals who takes this ribbing up a notch to the point of arrogance and both sides are guilty. One personal example was back at uni where the alpha male from one group would paint the other as being untrustworthy and shonky and vice versa.

The final point that I've got make is that I've got a lot of respect and admiration for both our cultures, especially when comparing India and China. Besides sharing borders, there are parallels: religion, medicine, history, etc. Personally, I work for the future, but I learn from our past.

Also, as usual, if I've offended anyone, it's not intended.

Nothing us ever gained by opening old wounds.