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Craig
12-17-2002, 09:15 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/12/business/12SCEN.html

What's in a Name? Perhaps Plenty if You're a Job Seeker
By ALAN B. KRUEGER

WHAT'S in a name? Evidently plenty if you are looking for a job.

To test whether employers discriminate against black job applicants, Marianne Bertrand of the University of Chicago and Sendhil Mullainathan of M.I.T. conducted an unusual experiment. They selected 1,300 help-wanted ads from newspapers in Boston and Chicago and submitted multiple résumés from phantom job seekers. The researchers randomly assigned the first names on the résumés, choosing from one set that is particularly common among blacks and from another that is common among whites.

So Kristen and Tamika, and Brad and Tyrone, applied for jobs from the same pool of want ads and had equivalent résumés. Nine names were selected to represent each category: black women, white women, black men and white men. Last names common to the racial group were also assigned. Four résumés were typically submitted for each job opening, drawn from a reservoir of 160. Nearly 5,000 applications were submitted from mid-2001 to mid-2002. Professors Bertrand and Mullainathan kept track of which candidates were invited for job interviews.

No single employer was sent two identical résumés, and the names on the résumés were randomly assigned, so applicants with black- and white-sounding names applied for the same set of jobs with the same set of résumés.

Apart from their names, applicants had the same experience, education and skills, so employers had no reason to distinguish among them.

The results are disturbing. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for interviews than were those with black-sounding names. Interviews were requested for 10.1 percent of applicants with white-sounding names and only 6.7 percent of those with black-sounding names.

Within racial groups, applications with men's or women's names were equally likely to result in calls for interviews, providing little evidence of discrimination based on sex in these entry-level jobs.

There were significant differences in interview-request rates among the nine names associated with black women, but not among the names within each of the other groups.

At the low end, the interview-request rate was 2.2 percent for Aisha, 3.8 percent for Keisha and 5.4 percent for Tamika, compared with 9.1 percent for Kenya and Latonya and 10.5 percent for Ebony.

Only part of this variability reflects chance differences resulting from sampling, although the authors have not been able to find a good explanation for the wide range. Thus it is important that the names chosen for black women were not uncommon; they represent 7.1 percent of all names listed on Massachusetts birth certificates for black girls from 1974 to 1979.

The 50 percent advantage in interview requests for white-sounding names held in both Boston and Chicago, and for both men and women.

This discrepancy complements findings from earlier studies in which researchers sent a small number of matched black and white "auditors" to apply for jobs in person. Typically, though not always, the black job seekers were less likely to be invited for an interview or offered a job.

Those findings, however, were criticized because the applicants knew the intention of the study and might have behaved differently. In addition, the auditors might not have been well matched with the jobs in question; they could have been overqualified or underqualified.

Professors Bertrand and Mullainathan's study is less susceptible to these concerns. First, they used a large number of names and inanimate résumés. Second, the job openings involved administrative, sales, clerical and managerial positions, and they submitted résumés patterned after real résumés of people who were actually seeking similar jobs.

Their most alarming finding is that the likelihood of being called for an interview rises sharply with an applicant's credentials — like experience and honors — for those with white-sounding names, but much less for those with black-sounding names. A grave concern is that this phenomenon may be damping the incentives for blacks to acquire job skills, producing a self-fulfilling prophecy that perpetuates prejudice and misallocates resources.

Two main theories explain labor market discrimination. One, known as taste-based discrimination, posits that employers — or customers, co-workers or supervisors — have a preference against hiring minority applicants, even if they know they are equally productive.

The other, known as statistical discrimination, assumes that employers personally harbor no racial animus but cannot perfectly predict workers' productivity. In this case, an employer assessing an applicant would assign some weight to the average performance of the person's racial group, instead of basing the judgment solely on the individual's merits.

A difference between these models is that employers sacrifice profits to indulge in taste-based discrimination, while, in principle, statistical discrimination, if based on accurate information, can help the bottom line. Professors Bertrand and Mullainathan cannot distinguish between the models — and both may be applicable — but they suspect that their finding that employers in heavily black areas of Chicago are less likely to discriminate against black-sounding names augurs for taste-based discrimination.

Nevertheless, either rationale for discrimination is illegal and prohibited.

"That which we call a rose," Juliet said, "by any other name would smell as sweet." An organization like the Civil Rights Commission or the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission could perform a service if it routinely monitored discrimination by conducting audit studies similar to Professors Bertrand and Mullainathan's.

ism
12-17-2002, 09:27 AM
Not surprised. Replace "black" with "deaf" or "blind" and the statistics would probably be even worse. Exactly why a meritocracy is currently an unrealistic idea.

VV o n g B a
12-17-2002, 09:31 AM
damn. sux to be a black person looking for a job.

SunWuKong
12-17-2002, 09:46 AM
i'd be interested in a similar study for asian names/surnames.

and i wonder about this sometimes: in the past, i didn't put the fact that i have US citizenship (i've been in the states since i was 11) on my resume, but now i do. before i started putting that in, i was asked by every potential employer and recruiter whether or not i have citizenship - which is completely understandable. but i just wonder about whether or not in the past i've been passed up for an interview because whoever saw my resume assumed that i don't have US citizenship. and i know that on first glance, they would know that i'm chinese because of the combination of my surname and the fact that i put chinese fluency in as one of my skills.

ism
12-17-2002, 10:45 AM
Hmm citizenship never crossed my mind, and I've never been asked, unless asking for my SS card and the W-2 forms count. Now I do wonder, given so many resumes in a pile, if something like that could be the deciding factor.

A study for Asians would certainly be interesting. I think there would be differences based on the type of job. Would the Model Minority myth help the professionals while hurting the unskilled? Would it even make a difference? I found an email address for one of the researchers... would anyone know how to go approaching them for the possibility of an Asian study?

SunWuKong
12-17-2002, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by ism@Dec 17 2002, 01:45 PM
Hmm citizenship never crossed my mind, and I've never been asked, unless asking for my SS card and the W-2 forms count. Now I do wonder, given so many resumes in a pile, if something like that could be the deciding factor.

A study for Asians would certainly be interesting. I think there would be differences based on the type of job. Would the Model Minority myth help the professionals while hurting the unskilled? Would it even make a difference? I found an email address for one of the researchers... would anyone know how to go approaching them for the possibility of an Asian study?
do you have an obviously asian surname and do you put fluency in an asian language as one of your skills? because i think it must be the combination of the two that is the reason why i'm asked about citizenship. or it could possibly be my industry because i'm a programmer and there are plenty of programmers on H1 visas. but it doesn't bother me that i'm asked about it because the companies need to know whether or not a visa would be necessary for me. i just wonder if people have assumed that i need a visa and passed me over (didn't even bother to contact me). so that's why i put my citizenship status on my resume now.

i think the model minority myth could possibly help asian people in technical positions. but i also think that the stereotype that asian people aren't outspoken hurt our chances of getting hired for management positions and definitely upper management and executive positions.

angel nympho
12-17-2002, 12:02 PM
Where was this study conducted? I think it might have been interesting to see if the same phenomenon exists elsewhere.

ism
12-17-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Dec 17 2002, 01:58 PM
do you have an obviously asian surname and do you put fluency in an asian language as one of your skills? because i think it must be the combination of the two that is the reason why i'm asked about citizenship. or it could possibly be my industry because i'm a programmer and there are plenty of programmers on H1 visas. but it doesn't bother me that i'm asked about it because the companies need to know whether or not a visa would be necessary for me. i just wonder if people have assumed that i need a visa and passed me over (didn't even bother to contact me). so that's why i put my citizenship status on my resume now.

i think the model minority myth could possibly help asian people in technical positions. but i also think that the stereotype that asian people aren't outspoken hurt our chances of getting hired for management positions and definitely upper management and executive positions.
My last name is obviously Chinese. My first name is actually Hispanic (and now I wonder about that). My education section shows I have been in America for at least 7 years for college. I am in the professional field, specifically as a consultant/software engineer, so they may assume I must be assimilated or very fluent to be able to survive and communicate in that capacity. I understood that you do not find being asked offensive, and I do not find it offensive either. It is required that employers know for tax purposes, and for other things as well (such as graduate school stipends). I am equally concerned however, that an assumption of non-citizenship could torpedo any chance right off the bat. That would be offensive, as the Asian-Foreigner assumption is wrong.

AN, the study was conducted in Chicago and Boston. Both urban areas, and I do wonder if it would be different if it was in more... rural areas. That would be difficult to conduct, though...

SunWuKong
12-17-2002, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by ism@Dec 17 2002, 03:15 PM
I am equally concerned however, that an assumption of non-citizenship could torpedo any chance right off the bat. That would be offensive, as the Asian-Foreigner assumption is wrong.
yeah well that's why i put my citizenship status on my resume now. and i suggest anybody whose resume would reveal an asian ethnicity to do the same.

Craig
12-17-2002, 12:42 PM
ism,
I find it surprising that you've never been asked about your citizenship. I have been out of school for over five years, working as a software engineer and more recently as a consultant. My resume has always stated my citizenship explicitly and I have almost never listed any foreign language skills. I have been asked about my citizenship on numerous instances. I am assuming that you have an advanced degree since you stated you were in the US studying for 7+ years (based on your resume). Does it make it that much easier to get a job where you haven't had to deal with idiotic recruiters and human resources personnel ?

kimpossible
12-17-2002, 12:54 PM
I had an interesting job seeking experience using my married name. Normally, for education and job seeking I use my maiden name, the reason is just a personal preference. I like to keep a little independence and keep work/life separate. However, I've found that it's really confusing if I don't use my married name because it is my legal name. If I fill out official paperwork I need to use my legal name. So for the last year I've been using my married name which is Chinese. ((My maiden name is English (as in British))

Anyhow, before I found the company I'll start with in January I shopped around at other companies. I applied for one job at company with an import department. I was a match for the posted requirements so I applied. I immediately received a call back from the recruiter who forwarded my resume to the person hiring.

Two days later after the recruiter had heard back from the employer, they wanted to know if I was bilingual English/Chinese. I said no, I am not fluent in Mandarin and did not see it listed as a requirement for the job. She confirmed that it wasn't a requirement but they essentially had raised the bar based on my name. The day after they change the posted job requirement to include bilingual Chinese/English. So, I moved on.

Two weeks later I ran into someone who knew the company and I asked who was hired. I was told it was a white person with no other language proficiency but English. I wouldn't exactly classify it as discriminatory but I was a bit pissed that they altered the job requirements and added one for me based on a name.

wylin
12-17-2002, 12:58 PM
my real names dirk Diggler and women dont seem to mind. :D

SunWuKong
12-17-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Dec 17 2002, 03:54 PM
I had an interesting job seeking experience using my married name. Normally, for education and job seeking I use my maiden name, the reason is just a personal preference. I like to keep a little independence and keep work/life separate. However, I've found that it's really confusing if I don't use my married name because it is my legal name. If I fill out official paperwork I need to use my legal name. So for the last year I've been using my married name which is Chinese. ((My maiden name is English (as in British))

Anyhow, before I found the company I'll start with in January I shopped around at other companies. I applied for one job at company with an import department. I was a match for the posted requirements so I applied. I immediately received a call back from the recruiter who forwarded my resume to the person hiring.

Two days later after the recruiter had heard back from the employer, they wanted to know if I was bilingual English/Chinese. I said no, I am not fluent in Mandarin and did not see it listed as a requirement for the job. She confirmed that it wasn't a requirement but they essentially had raised the bar based on my name. The day after they change the posted job requirement to include bilingual Chinese/English. So, I moved on.

Two weeks later I ran into someone who knew the company and I asked who was hired. I was told it was a white person with no other language proficiency but English. I wouldn't exactly classify it as discriminatory but I was a bit pissed that they altered the job requirements and added one for me based on a name.
that's interesting. my guess is that they assumed you were chinese and that for them to hire a chinese person, they would expect fluency in mandarin?

Craig
12-17-2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Dec 17 2002, 04:12 PM
that's interesting.  my guess is that they assumed you were chinese and that for them to hire a chinese person, they would expect fluency in mandarin?
Crap, does this mean I need something along the lines of Teach Yourself Chinese in 21 Days ?

lethal
12-17-2002, 04:51 PM
I've never even considered putting my citizenship on my resume before. The question has never come up on job interviews, but I do wonder if my last name has led to fewer interviews now.

I'd be very interested in a survey with other races, including Asians.

I use my Anglicized first name on my resume, not my legal Vietnamese first name.

Maybe with our names they could assume that our English skills aren't good even though we have a perfect resume and went to college in the U.S.?

SWK, I imagine that it is your field that employers ask if you have status to work in the U.S. It is a lot more trouble and cost several thousand dollars for them to hire an employee with visa requirements and may deter them from hiring someone who needs a visa.

deez nuts
12-18-2002, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by Hello_Hapa@Dec 17 2002, 03:54 PM
I had an interesting job seeking experience using my married name. Normally, for education and job seeking I use my maiden name, the reason is just a personal preference. I like to keep a little independence and keep work/life separate. However, I've found that it's really confusing if I don't use my married name because it is my legal name. If I fill out official paperwork I need to use my legal name. So for the last year I've been using my married name which is Chinese. ((My maiden name is English (as in British))

Anyhow, before I found the company I'll start with in January I shopped around at other companies. I applied for one job at company with an import department. I was a match for the posted requirements so I applied. I immediately received a call back from the recruiter who forwarded my resume to the person hiring.

Two days later after the recruiter had heard back from the employer, they wanted to know if I was bilingual English/Chinese. I said no, I am not fluent in Mandarin and did not see it listed as a requirement for the job. She confirmed that it wasn't a requirement but they essentially had raised the bar based on my name. The day after they change the posted job requirement to include bilingual Chinese/English. So, I moved on.

Two weeks later I ran into someone who knew the company and I asked who was hired. I was told it was a white person with no other language proficiency but English. I wouldn't exactly classify it as discriminatory but I was a bit pissed that they altered the job requirements and added one for me based on a name.
That's really fucked up.

ism
12-18-2002, 04:25 PM
Craig, sorry if I was unclear, but I meant that my resume shows my American education, at the latest, started 7 years ago. I graduated with a BS, so I don't have an advanced degree (I assume you meant postgrad). Thinking about though, most of my jobs have come through networking, heavily recommended, so by the time I get to the interview it's mostly informal or technical.

Hanuman
12-19-2002, 01:16 PM
I put my americanized first name (nickname) on my resume. My last name is clearly asian, but it helps to have a familar first name. Then I have to go through the rigamorole to have everyone call me by my given name.

Craig
12-20-2002, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by ism@Dec 18 2002, 07:25 PM
Craig, sorry if I was unclear, but I meant that my resume shows my American education, at the latest, started 7 years ago. I graduated with a BS, so I don't have an advanced degree (I assume you meant postgrad). Thinking about though, most of my jobs have come through networking, heavily recommended, so by the time I get to the interview it's mostly informal or technical.
Hey ism, buddy, pal, is your company hiring.

Actually, I should probably start a rant or the incompetence or laziness of the filters (HR, recruiters, etc.) as I have often gotten asked the most simple information that was looking them in the face from my resume. This includes stuff that was explicitly stated in line 1 after my contact information.

luv
12-20-2002, 10:57 PM
I actually think that people are always afraid of screwing up the pronunciation of my last name: Ng --which is Chinese even though it looks very similar to Vietnamese (that's what people always ask me).

Also, maybe because this is the midwest, I do get the citizenship question in several of the interviews I've been in even though I am ABC (Asian Born in Chicago) and speak fluent English.

SunWuKong
01-22-2003, 09:25 PM
*bump*