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View Full Version : Race relations and self-control: Can too much control be a bad thing?


Sunflare
08-12-2009, 02:15 AM
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=try-a-little-powerlessness


Try a Little Powerlessness—Pitfalls of Self-Control

We admire self-discipline, but could too much control be a bad thing?

By Wray Herbert

Self-control is one of our most cherished values. We applaud those who have the discipline to regulate their appetites and actions, and we try hard to instill this virtue in our children. Think of the marketing slogans that key off the desire for restraint: “Just say no.” “Just do it.” We celebrate the power of the mind to make hard choices, despite our emotions or other temptations, and keep us on course.

But what if we can’t just do it? What if “it” is too difficult or if our strategy for success is misguided? Is it possible that willpower actually might be an obstacle rather than a means to happiness and harmony? Can we have too much of a good thing?

Two Tufts University psychologists believe there may be some truth to this possibility. Evan P. Apfelbaum and Samuel R. Sommers were intrigued by the notion that too much self-control may indeed have a downside—and that relinquishing some personal power might be paradoxically tonic, both for individuals and for society. They decided to test this idea in the laboratory.

Your Inner Bigot

They explored the virtue of powerlessness in the arena of race relations. They figured that well-intentioned people are careful—sometimes hypercareful—not to say the wrong thing about race in a mixed-race group. Furthermore, they thought that such effortful self-control might actually cause both unease and dishonesty, which could in turn be misconstrued as racial prejudice.

To test this theory, they first deliberately sapped the mental powers of a number of volunteers. This practice is not as diabolical as it sounds. Researchers ran the participants through a series of computer-based mental exercises that are so challenging that the subjects temporarily deplete their cognitive reserves needed for discipline. Once they had the volunteers in this compromised state of mind, they put the group (and others who were not so depleted) into a social situation with the potential for racial tension. Here it is:

Each white subject is left alone in a room. A black man enters and asks if the volunteer will consent to a brief interview on the issue of how universities should guarantee racial diversity. This question is ostensibly unrelated to the self-control experiment, but in fact that is a ruse. The interviewer asks the participant to share any thoughts he or she might have on this “hot topic,” and the conversation is recorded.

It was that simple, although sometimes the in ter viewers were white, to serve as controls. Afterward, the volunteers rated the inter action for comfort, awkwardness and enjoyment. In addition, independent judges—both black and white—analyzed the five-minute interactions, commenting on how cautious the volunteers were, how direct in their answers, and how racially prejudiced.

Failure of Control

The results were provocative. As reported in the February issue of the journal Psychological Science, those who were mentally depleted—that is, those who did not have the energy to exert personal discipline and self-control—found talking about race with a black man much more enjoyable than did those whose self-control was intact. That outcome is presumably because they were not working so hard at monitoring and curbing what they said. It may seem counterintuitive, but being cognitively drained made them less inhibited and more candid, which felt good.

And it wasn’t just the volunteers’ perceptions of the experience: the independent black observers found that the powerless volunteers were much more direct and authentic in conversation. And perhaps most striking, blacks saw the less inhibited whites as less prejudiced against blacks. In other words, relinquishing power over oneself appears to thwart overthinking and “liberate” people for more authentic relationships.

Race relations is just one arena of life where a little powerlessness may go a long way. Addiction recovery is another. One of the guiding principles of 12-step programs is that too much self-reliance can be harmful and that powerlessness is a necessary precursor of the emotional balance needed for sobriety. But self-reliance is so deeply ingrained in us that it pervades our work lives, our relationships and our health choices, so it is a real challenge to accept that it might sometimes be a character flaw. It is good to remember that the volunteers here were not only perceived as fairer; they themselves felt happier. Where else might we be acting too smart for our own good?

Note: This article was originally printed with the title, "Try a Little Powerlessness."

Andrew Lin
08-12-2009, 10:10 AM
I agree. I'm not racist but if I get in conflict with a black person I'll temporarily become racist against blacks. Sometimes I like to visit the niggermania forums and have a good laugh. Usually though it's the white people that post the messages that I find funny.

MarshalStealth
08-12-2009, 11:20 AM
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=try-a-little-powerlessness

Those with no control of themselves will be controlled by others. ...

Sunflare
08-12-2009, 02:00 PM
I agree. I'm not racist but if I get in conflict with a black person I'll temporarily become racist against blacks. Sometimes I like to visit the niggermania forums and have a good laugh. Usually though it's the white people that post the messages that I find funny.

I was right after all. From the thread in the Hello Hapas forum. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=566802&postcount=22) You got issues. Maybe you need to work on that, pops. Afro-Americans are not the real enemy here. They were persecuted just as severely as Asian-Americans.

Because of the white supremacists and nationalists.

Sunflare
08-12-2009, 02:40 PM
There's a huge difference between someone who is a racialist and a person who is a racist. A racialist wants nothing more then an end to the racism that we all experience for whatever reason, regardless of whether he is white or black or yellow. Persons like that I respect.

But a nigger hater I have no respect for whatsofuckingever.

goodintentions
08-12-2009, 05:23 PM
There's an old saying: too much of anything is almost always bad.

When I first became a police officer, I used words like 'african american' and 'caucasion' when describing people's ethnicity. What I very quickly figured out was that black people accused me of being racist against blacks a lot more often than when I used 'black' or 'white' to describe their ethnicity. It's like running into someone that seems to try too hard to avoid an issue. It makes you wonder if he feels strongly about that issue in a negative way.

Sunflare
08-13-2009, 03:54 AM
There's an old saying: too much of anything is almost always bad.

When I first became a police officer, I used words like 'african american' and 'caucasion' when describing people's ethnicity. What I very quickly figured out was that black people accused me of being racist against blacks a lot more often than when I used 'black' or 'white' to describe their ethnicity. It's like running into someone that seems to try too hard to avoid an issue. It makes you wonder if he feels strongly about that issue in a negative way.

Well such people are oversensitive. I don't usually get such responses. I think it was years since the last time a person called me out for it.

I realize that alot of the reasons why you may be experiencing this problem is because of your profession as a civil servant assigned with the duty to protect, serve and maintain order. Many persons are unfortunately distrustful of police officers, and many times over, whether real or imagined, are accusatory of police officers off the bat as racist. If I am wrong please correct me on that.

But in general I despise how ppl use the word 'nigger'. Some people use the word for which it was introduced into American English to do, convey the notion of racist hate towards blacks.

Now ppl use the word as a term of endearment. I really just don't understand it.

I never go out of my way and say 'Yo my nigga! *high five* =)' like some ppl do as a supposed term of endearment, which is stupid. The word 'nigger' obviously has it's racist roots. I equate it to the word 'chink'.

goodintentions
08-13-2009, 03:28 PM
I realize that alot of the reasons why you may be experiencing this problem is because of your profession as a civil servant...

I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem. But it is true that I encounter this a lot more than normal people exactly because of my profession. It's kinda like the same way that cops are more likely to get into a car crash than most other groups of people... our cars ARE our offices!

Sunflare
08-13-2009, 04:12 PM
It's kinda like the same way that cops are more likely to get into a car crash than most other groups of people... our cars ARE our offices!

Good way of putting it. Never looked at that that way.

Sunflare
08-14-2009, 05:57 AM
Here's something that sort of got me a bit, well, confused?

One time I approached a guy asking for directions. So I was "Uhh . . hey dude, I want to ask for directions . . ."

This guy actually got offended by this. Yes this is true, no kidding. He started lecturing me over how the word dude has it's roots to the word 'hobo'. I was like, 'Huh?!'

I just said forget it and walked away.

MarshalStealth
08-22-2009, 01:31 AM
When do we ever get a chance to regaining control of ourselves?

We live in a world of constant interruptions. We walk. We talk. We blog. We eat. We code. Some of us are constantly rushed to complete our objectives for irrelevant reasoning. Regardless of our activities, we are constantly interrupted. Sometimes, these interruptions force each one of us to make poor decisions. There is rarely any time for us to sit back and reflect on ourselves. Gaining this period of quietude is the only opportunity for each one of us to regain control of ourselves and have a moment of peace and serenity.

Take some quiet time and regain some control of yourself.

kusojiji
08-24-2009, 12:48 AM
Those with no control of themselves will be controlled by others. ...


That's well said, sir!

MarshalStealth
08-24-2009, 01:15 AM
That's well said, sir!

Thanks!

pepy
08-24-2009, 01:21 AM
I was right after all. From the thread in the Hello Hapas forum. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=566802&postcount=22) You got issues. Maybe you need to work on that, pops. Afro-Americans are not the real enemy here. They were persecuted just as severely as Asian-Americans.

Because of the white supremacists and nationalists.

No, they were persecuted more since they went through slavery.

But the point i'm trying to make is despite this, people today can be racist no matter what race you are. so a black person you run into can not be racist towards you as well as be racist towards you and it's not just between blacks and whites. you can be another minority and be the object of racism even if you did nothing wrong to them or their people etc. true racism needs no valid reason, it's intent is to deride and degrade.

that's why despite whatever political issues, you have to approach or deal with each person individually until they prove themselves to be what they are. feeling sorry for or thinking that because some group has been oppressed before or since means that they are all good or worthy people is a fool's mistake as well. no such thing in the real world but there are good people in every race. this identifying as 'people of color' thing is pretty superficial since there are plenty of people of other races who could give a flying fuck about what your issues or your race's issues are but their own.

Sunflare
08-24-2009, 05:13 AM
No, they were persecuted more since they went through slavery.

I think this is the first time I ever heard anyone say that. If I may add, the same goes with Asian-Americans since the days of the Chinese exclusion act onward. Many people cannot see that things have in ways actually became worse, not better. Perhaps we are seeing improvement in many ways today, right now, but really most of the vibes felt from the days of social revolution in the 60s have been lost.

What we are dealing with is racial microaggression, which is more psychological in nature as compared to the horrendous hate crimes we have seen years ago, which are more frequent.

Another point to consider is that white privilege fuels racial microaggression.

But the point i'm trying to make is despite this, people today can be racist no matter what race you are. so a black person you run into can not be racist towards you as well as be racist towards you and it's not just between blacks and whites. you can be another minority and be the object of racism even if you did nothing wrong to them or their people etc. true racism needs no valid reason, it's intent is to deride and degrade.


Well people have the potential to spew hatred against one another in many ways aside from 'race'. That might be another way of looking at this.

Even let's assume then that the point you are highlighting is correct. There are many people are trying hard to not to have racist tenancies. They're not tree hugging liberals or anything like that, but are genuinely trying to be the best they can be. Many conservatives are trying just as hard. These people many times fail, but they continue to try and be civil about this problem.

However you are correct on the fact that this country is so completely scarred by racism that it will take many decades before we can successfully say we have truly shut the door on our racist past.

that's why despite whatever political issues, you have to approach or deal with each person individually until they prove themselves to be what they are. feeling sorry for or thinking that because some group has been oppressed before or since means that they are all good or worthy people is a fool's mistake as well. no such thing in the real world but there are good people in every race. this identifying as 'people of color' thing is pretty superficial since there are plenty of people of other races who could give a flying fuck about what your issues or your race's issues are but their own.

Definitely a good point you made on sizing people up.

However, I disagree on the feel sorry - feel good part. Your first part of the post acknowledges that Afro-Americans are continuing to be persecuted and that it may very well has deteriorated into something even worse. Yet now you are going on to say 'we shoud'nt feel sorry for them.'?

Not speaking for anyone else, but who said we felt 'sorry for them?' We are simply acknowledging the problem and can relate to them or other people in this country who been through similar problems. And is it wrong to have admiration for the Afro-Americans, Asian-Americans, Latin Americans and so forth, who historically led us through the Civil Rights movement? They deserve to be commended for their hard work. I don't see no race card being passed around here.

And today there are many people who are recipients of racism stemming from white privilage. So we should just ignore that and do not acknowledge it then?

pepy
08-24-2009, 02:26 PM
^no, that's not what i mean. what i mean is from my experiences in america, other races besides your own are no different than white/asian dichotomy. sure, whites have the most power currently, but other races are not your friends either and probably may oppress you as well if they had the power.

i just see no solidarity or real understanding between 'people of color' as you have said so often. in real life, not at all and people are/can be prejudiced even if they aren't white. you alluded to this in the other thread, as if nonwhites being prejudiced toward eachother is probably not from racism, as if it can't be. of course it can, everyone is capable of racism. if you don't realize it, you are not seeing the reality of human beings regardless of color or racial background.

Sunflare
08-26-2009, 06:17 AM
^no, that's not what i mean. what i mean is from my experiences in america, other races besides your own are no different than white/asian dichotomy. sure, whites have the most power currently, but other races are not your friends either and probably may oppress you as well if they had the power.

I guess you're looking at this objectively. I am not. Yeah, the fact remains that whites have the most power currently, and yes, minorities have to share for some of the blame in the overall tense atmosphere we see today in America's society.

Have it occurred to you however, that many of the minorities we see who display self hate for their own or contempt for persons of another race always go with the notion that white is right?

i just see no solidarity or real understanding between 'people of color' as you have said so often. in real life, not at all and people are/can be prejudiced even if they aren't white. you alluded to this in the other thread, as if nonwhites being prejudiced toward eachother is probably not from racism, as if it can't be. of course it can, everyone is capable of racism. if you don't realize it, you are not seeing the reality of human beings regardless of color or racial background.

I don't see too much solidarity either between persons of color eitherr. I never said that I see as strong a mutual understanding between minority groups, that's what the hippie liberal tree hugging idiot wants us to believe.

There is obviously problems but all that I am saying is that I would like to see more solidarity and understanding between different minority groups. It was like that during the social reform movements in the 60's and since then everything went downhill.