A Real Solution to the Interracial Dating Disparity

[Asian Playboy]

As I celebrate my blog's 4 year anniversary- the longest running and most successful blog dedicated to empowering Asian American men- having published more than 700 posts, received almost 2 million hits, and has remained 100% free, I still get asked what is probably THE most common question or rant in all of the Asian American internet.

The Interracial Dating Disparity. That's right, that old hydra raises it's grotesque head once again.

So, as probably the only one who has done more to effectively combat the disparity IN THE REAL WORLD in recent memory and in a professional capacity, I'm going to lay down the only true answer to the Interracial Dating Disparity I have found that WORKS IN REAL LIFE.

As you know, one of the most frequently discussed topics on Asian American internet forums is the "Interracial Dating Disparity" within the Asian American community. The Interracial Dating Disparity is a term used to describe the mathematical imbalance between the number of Asian American women dating white guys versus the number of Asian American men dating white women.

Whether this mathematical imbalance is REAL (i.e., based on actual U.S. Census data) or PERCEIVED (i.e., based on anecdotal evidence of what some guy "sees on the street,") I don't know, and more importantly, I don't care. There is, however, something that is very real:

Many Asian American men get upset when they see Asian American women dating white American guys.

Straight up. Let's put all bullshit aside and acknowledge this for what it is. This feeling of being upset and/or angry is based on several reasons, and here are just a few:

1. Asian American women are race traitors! They should be dating Asian American men, not white guys!
2. Asian American women are sell outs! They are dating white men, not because they're inherently better than Asian American men, but because they're trying to improve their social status by being by a white man's side. Even if he's a loser!
3. Ugh! I can't believe that Asian American woman is with that white guy. He's not even as smart / good-looking / tall / handsome / charming as I am. He's a total dork! She's only with him because he's white!
4. Asian American women have bought-in to mainstream media stereotypes of Asian American men! That's why so many of them are dating white guys! They need to see the error of their ways and start dating Asian American guys!

Again, there are many other reasons, but these are only a few examples.

After having taught hundreds of Asian American guys (and also Asian guys born and raised in other Asian and European countries), I see the same themes come up time and time again. Many of these guys either hold the above listed grudges against Asian American women in general, or they have their own specific reasons for being angry at Asian American women.

They have each, in their minds, made a correlation between the interracial dating disparity, and the other well accepted societal stereotypes of Asian American men (mostly produced by western movies and media). These men are truly living a life of self-torture, and I have seen all manner of self-defeating and self-imposed mental barriers in these guys.

I know this because they freely and willingly tell me about them in the hopes that by telling me these things that they will somehow "feel better."

However, despite all the pain, suffering, and self-inflicted mental torture that I've observed in my students, I have also had the pleasure of seeing those very same Asian American boys grow up and become men right before my very eyes.

Yes, there are students who come to me expecting to join a circle of brothers who will "take down the man," or somehow make Asian American women change their dating preferences, or somehow "fix" the American mainstream media and its related images of Asian American men.

This type of student ultimately discovers that ABCs of Attraction alumni have no interest in doing any of these things (because they're too busy romantically connecting with women left, right, and center). It is this type of student who ultimately drops out of the program and resigns himself to a life of loneliness.

He effectively excludes himself from the world's gene pool.

But for every one student who stubbornly holds on to this self-defeating mentality, there are 99 other students who rise up above that mentality and discover that the most effective way to change the "interracial dating disparity" is to take control of their own romantic lives and to start generating lots and lots of romantic choices and options for themselves. That is, if fixing the "interracial dating disparity" is really what you care about.

The only REAL solution to the Asian American Interracial Dating Disparity is manifold:

1. Make yourself a better man
2. Ignore that which generates negativity in you
3. Open up your options to include women of ALL colors
4. Get better at flirting and socializing with women
5. Finally, grow a pair of balls to do something about it and LEAD BY EXAMPLE

The majority of the time, though, the students I've taught who once believed that they cared about this "disparity," actually realized that they only used this as an excuse for not taking responsibility for the fact that they could not generate the same quantity and quality of romantic options as the white guys they were seeing from day to day. They were resigned to a life of loneliness until they CHOSE to be PRO-ACTIVE and DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR LIVES.

Ask yourself, do you really want to live a life of loneliness? Or have you always thought that you were meant for GREATER things?

Would you rather continue to get your satisfaction from complaining about a "disparity" (either real or perceived), or would you rather get your satisfaction from the warmth of a woman's body naked in your bed?

You decide.

[nameless]

I'm too lazy to search, but I think the first time you posted on YW, I probably made some stupid lulz reply. Or maybe not, but I remember thinking you were a troll and so was your message. I mean c'mon - an Asian guy claiming to be a playboy? I was just too ignorant (indoctrinated?) to take your message seriously.

So I apologize for doubting and commend you on your progress. I don't think sex is the only or ultimate solution, but if it's giving Asian guys the confidence to level the playing field and get them out of their funk, then go for it. And it appears the results are already more tangent then any other "attempts" to address the issue.

Also, were you really an aerospace engineer? lol wth

[Asian Playboy]

So I apologize for doubting and commend you on your progress. I don't think sex is the only or ultimate solution, but if it's giving Asian guys the confidence to level the playing field and get them out of their funk, then go for it. And it appears the results are already more tangent then any other "attempts" to address the issue.

The very process of a man- be he Asian or otherwise- getting better with women, whether he has the goal of short term relationships or a long term, meaningful one, means that the first step is to MAKE ONESELF INTO A BETTER MAN.

Also, were you really an aerospace engineer? lol wth

Yep, I literally was a rocket scientist.

[Sunflare]

The only REAL solution to the Asian American Interracial Dating Disparity is manifold:

1. Make yourself a better man
2. Ignore that which generates negativity in you
3. Open up your options to include women of ALL colors
4. Get better at flirting and socializing with women
5. Finally, grow a pair of balls to do something about it and LEAD BY EXAMPLE

Exactly. Especially the third point.

Certainly Asian Playboy, you are doing a good thing by taking this approach to APA activism in this way.

I'm just simply amazed, hearing the arguements of others on the net, that they really think that it is ethically wrong in doing what you and other Asian American male PUAs are doing.

Props. Keep it up. You're doing a good thing by what you are doing to help APA men set the example for all by taking the lead in this particular aspect of the overall APA empowerment movement as of late.

Edit: Five stars. I appreciate men who jumps into the hot spot and take action working hard towards toward progression in APA empowerment.

[Asian Playboy]

Thanks for the props, Sunflare!

I use the analogy of Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations." If a person pursues his own self-improvements and needs, then he in turn contributes to the "Invisible Hand" that will benefit society (in this case AMs) as a whole.

"By pursuing his own self interest he frequently promotes that of society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good"(WoN, 456).

[tripostrophe]

I'm all for people having the skills to have a conversation, put themselves out there and date and all that. But you can't combat one form of oppression by buying into another form of privilege. And if someone is unhappy with their racial/sexual self image, learning the system that tells them they're not good enough in the first place isn't going to promote any kind of healing, no matter how much sex they have to boost their ego.

...and pushing a DVD called How to Hook up with Asian Girls in your store? Seriously?

Exactly. Especially the third point.

Certainly Asian Playboy, you are doing a good thing by taking this approach to APA activism in this way.

I'm just simply amazed, hearing the arguements of others on the net, that they really think that it is ethically wrong in doing what you and other Asian American male PUAs are doing.

Props. Keep it up. You're doing a good thing by what you are doing to help APA men set the example for all by taking the lead in this particular aspect of the overall APA empowerment movement as of late.

Edit: Five stars. I appreciate men who jumps into the hot spot and take action working hard towards toward progression in APA empowerment.

Are you fucking kidding me? APA activism and empowerment? Give me a fucking break. Activism doesn't consist of $100 phone conversations and boot camps costing hundreds of dollars. Empowerment is not empowerment if it means learning to buy into a masculinity that objectifies and oppresses half of our community in the process of "empowering" ourselves. APA women are just as much part of the community as are men; learning tricks to becoming a pick-up artist just buys into the same sexist bullshit that causes them grief in the first place.

[Sunflare]

I'm all for people having the skills to have a conversation, put themselves out there and date and all that. But you can't combat one form of oppression by buying into another form of privilege. And if someone is unhappy with their racial/sexual self image, learning the system that tells them they're not good enough in the first place isn't going to promote any kind of healing, no matter how much sex they have to boost their ego.

...and pushing a DVD called How to Hook up with Asian Girls in your store? Seriously?



Are you fucking kidding me? APA activism and empowerment? Give me a fucking break. Activism doesn't consist of $100 phone conversations and boot camps costing hundreds of dollars. Empowerment is not empowerment if it means learning to buy into a masculinity that objectifies and oppresses half of our community in the process of "empowering" ourselves. APA women are just as much part of the community as are men; learning tricks to becoming a pick-up artist just buys into the same sexist bullshit that causes them grief in the first place.Thanks for the props, Sunflare!

I use the analogy of Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations." If a person pursues his own self-improvements and needs, then he in turn contributes to the "Invisible Hand" that will benefit society (in this case AMs) as a whole.Exactly. Especially the third point.

Certainly Asian Playboy, you are doing a good thing by taking this approach to APA activism in this way.

I'm just simply amazed, hearing the arguments of others on the net, that they really think that it is ethically wrong in doing what you and other Asian American male PUAs are doing.

Props. Keep it up. You're doing a good thing by what you are doing to help APA men set the example for all by taking the lead in this particular aspect of the overall APA empowerment movement as of late.


This is what I mean by opposing arguments against the existence of a AM PUA community.

Welcome to the world of Asian male empowerment.

Empowerment is not empowerment if APA men just sit there and buy into the stereotypes of Asian men, particularly such as the notion that AMs are effeminated and allow themselves into this model minority role to save face.

That's why I support Asian Playboy, William Lee, and others who are helping to dispel these stereotypes and help AMs find happiness in their lives.

Of course many dating coach services charges a fee for the expenses that comes with finaning such services. So I don't see the problem with the cost of attending the ABCs of Attraction bootcamps.

You know many APA feminist and LGBT empowerment sites also seem to be in partial support, if not full support of, the ABCs of Attraction program. Every time I surf those websites for insight into these subcategories of APA empowerment I can see banners all the time for betterasianman.com and abcsofattraction.com.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I highly disagree with your viewpoint.

[tripostrophe]

This is what I mean by opposing arguments against the existence of a AM PUA community.

Welcome to the world of Asian male empowerment.

Empowerment is not empowerment if APA men just sit there and buy into the stereotypes of Asian men, particularly such as the notion that AMs are effeminated and allow themselves into this model minority role to save face.

That's why I support Asian Playboy, William Lee, and others who are helping to dispel these stereotypes and help AMs find happiness in their lives.

Of course many dating coach services charges a fee for the expenses that comes with finaning such services. So I don't see the problem with the cost of attending the ABCs of Attraction bootcamps.

You know many APA feminist and LGBT empowerment sites also seem to be in partial support, if not full support of, the ABCs of Attraction program. Every time I surf those websites for insight into these subcategories of APA empowerment I can see banners all the time for betterasianman.com and abcsofattraction.com.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I highly disagree with your viewpoint.

Empowerment is never so simple as learning to work the system and get one up on another group - ever heard of the master's tools? Learning to become a player is not a matter of empowering the APA community - it's a matter of cashing in, switching sides and aligning yourself with the team that's already winning in order to score a few scraps for yourself. It has to go beyond the obvious (race) to how other factors (sex, sexuality) play out in ways that affect people beyond the individual. How much difference is there really between a man who learns to play all women like objects, and an asiaphile who treats APA women specifically as objects? We can't talk about APA men's empowerment as if it exists independently of APA women's.

And it's not empowering if men are taught a binary notion of masculinity and sexuality that doesn't allow for anything in between. I mean, shit: "A metro sexual is a straight man who embraces the homosexual lifestyle, i.e., refined tastes in clothing, excessive use of designer hygiene products, et.c, Usually he is on the brink of homosexuality" - juxtaposing that with the "machosexual," then going on to push hairstyles and fashion - "manly" counterparts of the same shit; it constrains one's ability to form their own identity and ultimately it's all still a matter of consuming one's identity product by product.

The issues that lead to a low racial self-image aren't created solely around one's sexuality, and while it can be a legitimate step in the process, this isn't the way to go about it. I have no problem with teaching people to be confident in themselves. But the problem with the whole "learning to be a pickup artist" thing is that it sets up a narrative where everything is about sex. As soon as you meet a woman, the pressure is on to "score", and thus the focus shifts from the person you're interacting with to the expectation of sex.

I mean, if you stop and think about it - even the nerdiest or scrawniest men who come off as hardly masculine still manage to find partners and have relationships, right? And it's not like they were pumping iron and practicing pick-up lines before they met their partners - they just built relationships around a common interest or their personality or something. Didn't have to put on a show and learn to be a pickup artist. Speaking of which - how many women are really going to want to get involved with a "pickup artist"? Sure, if you're just looking for casual sex and that's your thing, this stuff will be great I'm sure. But really, there are ways to form more meaningful relationships outside of this whole pickup artist scam. Again, just a matter of forming relationships - which doesn't have to be framed as some sort of game or competition.

Instead of changing yourself to try to live up to these impossible ideals of manhood embodied in the pickup artist, why not say 'fuck the whole system that forces me to be something i'm not,' and focus your energies in places where you are appreciated? 'Social misfits' in college or even high school learn this early on and end up hanging out happily with friends all the same. Learning to have relationships with people shouldn't consist of hundred-dollar seminars to reshape the person you are into a product.

[buttermilkwise]

...

At some level what you say is true, but there's no need to manufacture a problem that doesn't exist to the extent that's being portrayed, it's like Don Quixote stabbing a sword at a windmill. I'm not concerned with IR.

I'm actually more interested in how you got non-asian students into your program? I just browsed and saw some video testimony from a white dude that seemed to be pretty satisfied with the ABC's curriculum.

I mean I think it's cool that you got white guys into your program, but I mean isn't it strange? It just seems the program is geared towards asian guys getting with white women, yet you've got white guys in it? Weird.

[Dimeron]

Personally, in terms of IR disparity, the real thing that bothers me about is its implication, either directly (via the Asian women and/or the men they date who vocally and negatively stereotype us) or indirectly (due to the sheer number and existing stereotype) reinforce the stereotype that Asian men are undesired by all women.

The Media plays a huge part of this stereotype, but I would say the above plays a large part of it as well.

I try to not let this bother me, and realizes that I must work around to overcome it. But I would be lying if I say I don't get pissed off when an Asian women and/or her equally racist boyfriend proclaims that Asian men are not good enough/invisible, just as I get pissed off when the mass Media consistently portrays Asian guy as asexual or sexist wife beaters.

Anyways, the realist in me agrees with Asian Playboy. Last few months I have realized, at the end of the day, one just have to ignore the negative stereotype that you can't really do anything about and worker harder to overcome it. It will be an uphill battle, most men of other races don't have to worry about it, it is not fair, but given the alternative there really is no choice.

PUA is not activism I agree, it is mostly about getting laid. But the end result IMO will probably do a lot more good for the Asian men.

That said, activism against negative media portray is still very worthy cause, and the two go hand to hand IMO. You not only have to change how mass media portray us, but also how people view us in real life as well.

[applehead]

your students must be the male equivalents of
the women that are always hanging out in the
self-help book sections.

[eos]

^zing!

[buttermilkwise]

Personally, in terms of IR disparity, the real thing that bothers me about is its implication, either directly (via the Asian women and/or the men they date who vocally and negatively stereotype us) or indirectly (due to the sheer number and existing stereotype) reinforce the stereotype that Asian men are undesired by all women.


No offense but some of you need to stop living on the internet, and take things for what they are in the real world. The disparity is real, but on the internet it becomes an exaggerated illusion. No one is out to get you.

The disparity can also easily be used as a blaming mechanism for one's failures, when the reality could be completely different as there could other compounding factors at play.

That being said regardless of the disparity there are still plenty of asian men that would need this kind of help.



I mean, if you stop and think about it - even the nerdiest or scrawniest men who come off as hardly masculine still manage to find partners and have relationships, right? And it's not like they were pumping iron and practicing pick-up lines before they met their partners - they just built relationships around a common interest or their personality or something. Didn't have to put on a show and learn to be a pickup artist. Speaking of which - how many women are really going to want to get involved with a "pickup artist"? Sure, if you're just looking for casual sex and that's your thing, this stuff will be great I'm sure. But really, there are ways to form more meaningful relationships outside of this whole pickup artist scam. Again, just a matter of forming relationships - which doesn't have to be framed as some sort of game or competition.


To me, I don't see that as being the point of these seminars, I still believe 110%, anybody who has zero experience with women will benefit from APB's program but only if they take the program that specifically lets you get actual field experience. This is what is going to separate the program, from standing in the aisle in a bookstore and reading "self-help" books, because words are cheap.

No amount of real-world conjecture that you talk about in your post is going to help anyone, if the guy is too scared shitless before he can even think of talking to a pretty girl.

You have to think of the program itself as a support program and a form of therapy that will help men in need get over their fear of women specifically attractive women who easily inspire fear in alot of regular joes.

[noname]

your students must be the male equivalents of
the women that are always hanging out in the
self-help book sections.

I've heard about people deciding to take a boot camp (or a similar program) after months of being a "keyboard jockey", i.e. reading lots of e-books and other related materials, but not getting results or having trouble even trying things (as was the case for me). However, they've taken the step forward to make the investment (much like taking a class) and have someone help them out. I believe I learned a lot better by seeing and hearing things in person. For me, it was especially helpful being told what I personally need to work on, as well as getting advice and encouragement when out on field nights (among many other things I learned). Not only the instructors were supportive, but also the fellow students were as well.

[applehead]

I've heard about people deciding to take a boot camp (or a similar program) after months of being a "keyboard jockey", i.e. reading lots of e-books and other related materials, but not getting results or having trouble even trying things (as was the case for me). However, they've taken the step forward to make the investment (much like taking a class) and have someone help them out. I believe I learned a lot better by seeing and hearing things in person. For me, it was especially helpful being told what I personally need to work on, as well as getting advice and encouragement when out on field nights (among many other things I learned). Not only the instructors were supportive, but also the fellow students were as well.

so you have taken a class like this?
"how to pick up women" type of classes?

[noname]

so you have taken a class like this?
"how to pick up women" type of classes?

I did a 3-day boot camp, learning about social dynamics and self-improvement.

[applehead]

I did a 3-day boot camp, learning about social dynamics and self-improvement.

well, see. that's what i mean.
if a man has trouble so much trouble finding a woman for a relationship
that he's enrolled in a "how to pick up women" type of class;
their problems are more serious and go beyond that.
i don't think there's anything wrong in trying to better yourself
by improving your social skills
god knows, we all need a bit of help in that area,
but if you're starting with classes
on how to be a pick up artist then it's a misguided move.

[Sunflare]

I did a 3-day boot camp, learning about social dynamics and self-improvement.

Who coached him?

I mentioned before a friend who did it too and now he's doing real well in his romantic life. He already had a decent romantic life, but now with the training he has received, he is doing alot better then ever before.

In all, there are some AMs who unfortunately become socially stunted for a variety of reasons. Services such as this helps such ppl to make up for the opportunities they lost to be able to develop the social skills they need to make connections and start conversations with beautiful women.

If you are already good to go with your social life as far as interaction with ladies are concerned then there is no need to take the bootcamp seminars, but if the person thinks that he may need additional assistance, then he should go for it.

Thanks for the props, Sunflare!

I use the analogy of Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations." If a person pursues his own self-improvements and needs, then he in turn contributes to the "Invisible Hand" that will benefit society (in this case AMs) as a whole.

"By pursuing his own self interest he frequently promotes that of society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good"(WoN, 456).

Yeah, keep it up and forget the haters.

I agree with the reference you quoted from 'Wealth of Nations" --- that is a fact of life really, but it's unfortunate that if a person can't get his secular life in order then the bootcamps, or any dating coaching service for that matter, may not be as effective. Ladies are generally attracted to men that has their life in order, demostrating financial stability. (Is it called replication or survival value?) That can be a big obstacle for many to overcome -- esp nowadays in the wake of this financial crisis affecting particularly the poor working class.

[monkeygone2]

i'm hesitent in posting here, because i see that asian playboy is using yw in his adverts, editing people's posts to sell his product, but i gotta say, there's a difference between 'social dynamics/self-improvement' and the whole PUA movement.
and i'm not hating on his entrepreneurial spirit, but something bothers me...

years ago, i remember seeing a bulletin at the new school about a class on "how to pick up asian chicks". i just had to see the parade of otaku and creepy businessmen who took a class...
and i remember a book on "how to get an asian girlfriend", that had asian american men and women up in arms...

asian playboy's marketing is masterfull. it's either the marketing or the students' self-serving nature, because if you're going to associate yourself with something like this:
http://www.abcsofattraction.com/store.php
http://www.abcsofattraction.com/media/images/DVDAF/DVDAFStore.jpgAsian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

If you're a guy who is even just a little into Asian women, there is a HUGE secret that you NEED to know.

For a LIMITED time, ABCs of Attraction is re-releasing Johnny Wolf's CLASSIC DVD: How to Hook up with Asian Girls.

An instant hit, ABCs' lead instructor will take you step by step into the wold of attracting, dating and keeping Asian women.

See the program that seduction guru JT the Asian Playboy has called :remarkable in its effectiveness!"


...then we finally have a case where the term "sell-out whore" seems appropriate.

ps i was being sarcastic when i said "masterful".

[nameless]

^Damn, I hadn't seen that. For the record, I never felt PUA was APA activism so much as it was a pragmatic solution for socially awkward Asian guys. But that DVD is quite objectionable even by my standards. Also, if our posts are being edited, let's just delete this thread.

well, see. that's what i mean.
if a man has trouble so much trouble finding a woman for a relationship
that he's enrolled in a "how to pick up women" type of class;
their problems are more serious and go beyond that.
i don't think there's anything wrong in trying to better yourself
by improving your social skills
god knows, we all need a bit of help in that area,
but if you're starting with classes
on how to be a pick up artist then it's a misguided move.

I understand your and tripostrophre's qualms. Believe it or not, my own prudish moral beliefs keep me from completely endorsing Asian Playboy. However, since joining this site, I really haven't seen any practical attempt to get Asian guy's out of their funk.

At worst it's, "Oh quit whining, you're imagining it," and at best it's "Yes, AM are stereotyped...um, have a nice day." Sorry, but your post is especially guilty of this. People need solutions to problems, not be told that they have "more serious" problems and offered lofty ideals and snail paced approaches.

People like you and tripos, while correct on some level, are just way to idealistic. These guys want to get laid, and you're coming at them with arguments of sexism? LOL Please. You might as well be preaching world peace.

[Sunflare]

People like you and tripos, while correct on some level, are just way to idealistic. These guys want to get laid, and you're coming at them with arguments of sexism? LOL Please. You might as well be preaching world peace.

That's sort of what I was trying to say too.

Not to challenge the viewpoints of monkeygone and tri, they do bring up valid concerns about the abcsofattcaction seminars and bootcamps but I don't see how this should be labeled as 'sexism' when so many other non-Asian dating coach services does just as bad, if that is indeed the case with abcs of attraction.

Looking at the sites at a quick glance, particularly with betterasianman.com, I can't find too much indication, if at all, that the bloggers and posters there on the forum are trying to protray the notion theat AFs are sellout whores. They are obviously astute about this.

Notice Asian Playboy said this:


This type of student ultimately discovers that ABCs of Attraction alumni have no interest in doing any of these things [rant and rave over the IR issue] (because they're too busy romantically connecting with women left, right, and center). It is this type of student who ultimately drops out of the program and resigns himself to a life of loneliness.

Ignore that which generates negativity in you

So I think AP is apparently aware of this and work with the students that holding resentment against Asian ladies for whatever reason is not exactly healthy for the mind, and such individuals will not make it even through the bootcamp, let alone make it on the dating scene, if they walk around with a chip on their shoulder over the issue. I'm sure he applys this into his training with the help of other coaches such as Johnny Wolf and William Lee.

On the thoughts on the contoversial "How to Date Asian Girls" DVD, while its understandable that there will be creeps and really ppl who cant get over their Asian female fetishes and objectivism who frequent the bootcamps, if that is the case, lets not forget the fact for that many AMs, I think especially American born Asian American men, that DVD and the book published may actually help AMs who wish to date Asian girls and find success in doing so.

Many Asian men date outside their race because for a while, with the preceding generations of APAs, many AMs who are otherwise really good at finding dates do in fact find trouble sometimes with dating Asian women. Even some AM PUAs have this problem. Such ppl will definitely benifit from the material found in the DVDs.

[monkeygone2]

I understand your and tripostrophre's qualms. Believe it or not, my own prudish moral beliefs keep me from completely endorsing Asian Playboy. However, since joining this site, I really haven't seen any practical attempt to get Asian guy's out of their funk.

At worst it's, "Oh quit whining, you're imagining it," and at best it's "Yes, AM are stereotyped...um, have a nice day." Sorry, but your post is especially guilty of this. People need solutions to problems, not be told that they have "more serious" problems and offered lofty ideals and snail paced approaches.

People like you and tripos, while correct on some level, are just way to idealistic. These guys want to get laid, and you're coming at them with arguments of sexism? LOL Please. You might as well be preaching world peace.

if it's a matter of a quick lay to cure their funk, then asian playboy should just call it that. but if he's going to market his product under the guise of uplfting asian americans, then you're going to get these responses.

the only problem i have with asian playboy... i understand he's cornering a niche market - asian guys - from the other pua instructors. but posting on positive asian sites, while endorsing a dvd on bagging asian girls, is fucking funny. to be fair, i don't know what's on that dvd LOL, but i think i have an idea, based on the online description (in red letters).

it really takes guts to work for yourself. asian playboy has to compete with other pua jedi... travel dates costs money... renting halls costs money... he made choices (like endorsing that asian dvd) to get his career going, possibly selling out on certain ideals that he seems to be aware of...
so yeah, i called asian playboy a sellout whore. and i mean that in the nicest way possible.

[Sunflare]

Also, if our posts are being edited, let's just delete this thread.

I did'nt notice any posts being edited. Never saw the mods do something like that deliberately ever since I was here on this board and probably even before then.


so yeah, i called asian playboy a sellout whore. and i mean that in the nicest way possible.

I'm thinking Asian Playboy is simply trying to be as openminded and politically correct on the issue and his endeavors as humanly possible.

i
the only problem i have with asian playboy... i understand he's cornering a niche market - asian guys - from the other pua instructors. but posting on positive asian sites, while endorsing a dvd on bagging asian girls, is fucking funny. to be fair, i don't know what's on that dvd LOL, but i think i have an idea, based on the online description (in red letters).

There are many APA men, even PUAs that can start romantic conversations and maintain relationships with with non-white chicks (It's not really hard, AMs are the new sugar daddies nowadays) but still have difficulty connecting with APA ladies for a variety of reasons. I would think that DVD would help such individuals.

[Sunflare]

There are many APA men, even PUAs that can start romantic conversations and maintain relationships with with non-white chicks (It's not really hard, AMs are the new sugar daddies nowadays) but still have difficulty connecting with APA ladies for a variety of reasons. I would think that DVD would help such individuals.

Correction to previous post: Non-Asian chicks, not non-white chicks.

(posting in a rush)

[noname]

Sunflare, to answer your question, I did my boot camp with The Art of Charm.
There are lots of companies like AoC and ABCs of Attraction - whatever each guy chooses to go with, hopefully he enjoys it and gains something from it.
Asian Playboy was once interviewed for an episode of AoC's Pickup Podcast (http://pickuppodcast.com/ or search in iTunes).
You might like to check out the episodes on personal finance too, in addition to expected ones about interacting with women (with a variety of perspectives).

I also listen to the Better Asian Man podcast, and find some of the material helpful as well. I believe all these things have helped me get the girl I'm seeing now. I hope they make her a happier person as well.
It is interesting that the BAM podcast includes interviews with notable Asian-Americans, in addition to the dating advice. Maybe it could be inspiring to Asian-Americans who have great ideas of their own. I could see how dating and social skills (like confidence, body language, etc) could also be used in achieving such goals.
If I remember correctly, another interesting observation was AP once saying that he usually has better interactions with non-Asian women than with Asian women. I've sometimes felt that way as well. I've also heard one of the guys on the show (who I believe is ABC) mentioning ABC women being the hardest for him to connect with. That's something I think I could relate with.

I haven't yet viewed the DVD mentioned in the thread, but I'm guessing it's presented like that to create shock value. You're all talking about it, so there must be intrigue and curiosity. That's probably more so among people who haven't posted here. Not the first time that has been done, and sure won't be the last.
The content probably at least has to do with how to understand and respect an Asian woman's cultural background and way of thinking. It seems to remind me of the differences in the ways men and women talk in general. Doesn't each girl want a guy who understands her (or at least seems to)?

[applehead]

^Damn, I hadn't seen that. For the record, I never felt PUA was APA activism so much as it was a pragmatic solution for socially awkward Asian guys. But that DVD is quite objectionable even by my standards. Also, if our posts are being edited, let's just delete this thread.



I understand your and tripostrophre's qualms. Believe it or not, my own prudish moral beliefs keep me from completely endorsing Asian Playboy. However, since joining this site, I really haven't seen any practical attempt to get Asian guy's out of their funk.

At worst it's, "Oh quit whining, you're imagining it," and at best it's "Yes, AM are stereotyped...um, have a nice day." Sorry, but your post is especially guilty of this. People need solutions to problems, not be told that they have "more serious" problems and offered lofty ideals and snail paced approaches.

People like you and tripos, while correct on some level, are just way to idealistic. These guys want to get laid, and you're coming at them with arguments of sexism? LOL Please. You might as well be preaching world peace.

well, now you just made asian playboy and his business sound
more ridiculous than before!

[buttermilkwise]

well, see. that's what i mean.
if a man has trouble so much trouble finding a woman for a relationship
that he's enrolled in a "how to pick up women" type of class;
their problems are more serious and go beyond that.
i don't think there's anything wrong in trying to better yourself
by improving your social skills
god knows, we all need a bit of help in that area,
but if you're starting with classes
on how to be a pick up artist then it's a misguided move.

My god, that's such absolutely retarted logic I don't even know where to begin. What gives you the right to judge what these people should do, when you yourself are not in their shoes? Your advice is the equivalent to saying a depressed person shouldn't go seek a psychiatrist or psychologist because that means he's insane and there is something really wrong with him if he needs any medication for his depression. Seriously that is an absolutely fucking retarted way to think.

I takes a lot of courage to face oneself and admit that there is an embarrasing problem that carries a high stigma no thanks in part to people like yourself, and then on top of all of that you want to deny them the freedom to think outside the box? Anyone in that kind of situation should do whatever it takes, no matter what to find a way out of their situation before it is too late.

I'm not saying this to endorse APB's program, it's not perfect either, but I'm saying this because I've been there and I care alot about these individuals who suffer and I want the right people to get the right of kind of help. Your kind of advice will mislead them to a greater life of suffering that consists of masturbation,lonely nights along with the stinging unbearable pain of regret. No one in their right mind wants that.

[monkeygone2]

My god, that's such absolutely retarted logic I don't even know where to begin. What gives you the right to judge what these people should do, when you yourself are not in their shoes? Your advice is the equivalent to saying a depressed person shouldn't go seek a psychiatrist or psychologist because that means he's insane and there is something really wrong with him if he needs any medication for his depression. Seriously that is an absolutely fucking retarted way to think.


um... if you read what you quoted, she never suggested that the person do nothing.
rather than write a substantial check to a bunch of PUA instructors with frosted tips and bedazzled jeans, it may be more helpful to talk to someone more professional or take a self improvement course, instead.
for most people, PUA is not seen as a 'self improvement class'. can you blame them?

men have to deal with rejection. and that can be a huge fucking hurdle. and i suppose i can see how some guys think PUA can help them squash the anxiety.
but what you have to understand is that women have to deal with the constant bullshit meter, figuring out if some guy is just feeding them a line. and from what i've seen on tv, that's a major PUA component - telling a woman what you think she wants to hear, so you can get your foot in the door.

[nameless]

well, now you just made asian playboy and his business sound
more ridiculous than before!

:confused: Sorry, you'll have to clarify your point.

um... if you read what you quoted, she never suggested that the person do nothing.
rather than write a substantial check to a bunch of PUA instructors with frosted tips and bedazzled jeans, it may be more helpful to talk to someone more professional or take a self improvement course, instead.
for most people, PUA is not seen as a 'self improvement class'. can you blame them?

lol frosted tips. I almost spit out my coffee.

Anyway, buttermilk more or less voiced my feelings. But even if applehead is inferring what you say, I'll have to disagree. All a psych can do is convince these guys that their hang ups aren't as great as they think. I don't know what a self-improvement course does, but I'm guessing it's a class environment dealing with non-sexual scenarios. In both cases, I still see a guy shelling out a lot of money (especially with a shrink) and only coming away with an intellectual approach to their issues. What self-improvement class is going to cut straight to the matter and actually get these guys field experience / success?

I think it's just a sad case where these guys put it on the pedestal, and they won't be able to get the monkey off their back until they actually get laid. And, as noname, can attest to, that confidence can crossover into other aspects of their lives. Sorry, ladies, but guys can be crazy like that. Only a lucky few have the will and clarity of mind to overcome their mental hangups through simply discussing it. Most of these guys are just not at that level imo.


but what you have to understand is that women have to deal with the constant bullshit meter, figuring out if some guy is just feeding them a line. and from what i've seen on tv, that's a major PUA component - telling a woman what you think she wants to hear, so you can get your foot in the door.

Call me cynical, but I think bs'ing from both sides is just part of the crazy human mating ritual.

[Sunflare]

Sunflare, to answer your question, I did my boot camp with The Art of Charm.

Oh OK gotcha, I thought it was who ABP referred to as Mr Sounds from betterasianman.com. He was the man I was talking about.

I also listen to the Better Asian Man podcast, and find some of the material helpful as well. I believe all these things have helped me get the girl I'm seeing now. I hope they make her a happier person as well.
It is interesting that the BAM podcast includes interviews with notable Asian-Americans, in addition to the dating advice. Maybe it could be inspiring to Asian-Americans who have great ideas of their own. I could see how dating and social skills (like confidence, body language, etc) could also be used in achieving such goals.

I read up on the blog entries and the podcasts occasionally and I am really impressed by the writing ability and sensibleness of the betterasianman team. No AF bashing and the like, the discussions focus on the right positive mindset the Asian man should have - dismissing the negativity we may see on a daily basis around usn and do what you can to find that unicorn, (or woman of your dreams, regardless of whether the lady is Asian, black, white or whatever), as Johnny Wolf said, and be happy and content. How? By hard work, understanding of the dynamics of dating, and strides in self improvement. What doesn't kill you will only make you stronger.

If I remember correctly, another interesting observation was AP once saying that he usually has better interactions with non-Asian women than with Asian women. I've sometimes felt that way as well. I've also heard one of the guys on the show (who I believe is ABC) mentioning ABC women being the hardest for him to connect with. That's something I think I could relate with.

Right. That's exactly my problem too. I'm sure many AMs have this problem as well and it's unfortunate. It seems that I definitely get the attention and curiosity of non-Asian chicks but with Asian girls it's tough. Sad to say, and as ironic as it seems, since I am dating interracially at this point, I still do have a preferred preference for Asian ladies.

So yeah the fact that this happens to many Asian American men is quite disconcerting to me, to say the least.

I haven't yet viewed the DVD mentioned in the thread, but I'm guessing it's presented like that to create shock value. You're all talking about it, so there must be intrigue and curiosity. That's probably more so among people who haven't posted here. Not the first time that has been done, and sure won't be the last.
The content probably at least has to do with how to understand and respect an Asian woman's cultural background and way of thinking. It seems to remind me of the differences in the ways men and women talk in general. Doesn't each girl want a guy who understands her (or at least seems to)?

Well in my opinion, even though yes, ladies want to be with a man who knows how to make a woman feel like a true natural woman. But he also has to demonstrate that he can bring the bread on the dinner table sort of speak. Financial stability and success.

Otherwise, I'm with you 100% -- the goal is to understand and appreciate the Asian woman's POV and treating her with dignity and respect. I don't mean being a yes man, and some kind of fanboy, with our heads on a swivel bouncing up and down in approval with every word she utters, (then we would lose value in the eyes of the ladies who we may be dating) but the idea I think is that it's ok to agree to disagree, and to show mutual affection and respect for the Asian woman that we may be dating. I made ridiculous mistakes in the past to come to this point where I am saying this.

Unfortunately, many AMs for many, many reasons cannot see eye to eye with an Asian woman and that is why I would think that the 'How to Date Asian Girls' DVD by Johnny Wolf may be extremely helpful to some AMs who lack experience and insight with interacting with Asian ladies --- our counterparts . . .

. . Our sisters.

Going on to a different topic, many argue that the PUA method does not work in helping the student to set up for a LTR. William Lee suggested marriage counseling to make up for that problem with the PUA method and LTRs. Can you or someone else elaborate on that?




My god, that's such absolutely retarted logic I don't even know where to begin. What gives you the right to judge what these people should do, when you yourself are not in their shoes? Your advice is the equivalent to saying a depressed person shouldn't go seek a psychiatrist or psychologist because that means he's insane and there is something really wrong with him if he needs any medication for his depression. Seriously that is an absolutely fucking retarted way to think.

I takes a lot of courage to face oneself and admit that there is an embarrasing problem that carries a high stigma no thanks in part to people like yourself, and then on top of all of that you want to deny them the freedom to think outside the box? Anyone in that kind of situation should do whatever it takes, no matter what to find a way out of their situation before it is too late.

I'm not saying this to endorse APB's program, it's not perfect either, but I'm saying this because I've been there and I care alot about these individuals who suffer and I want the right people to get the right of kind of help. Your kind of advice will mislead them to a greater life of suffering that consists of masturbation,lonely nights along with the stinging unbearable pain of regret. No one in their right mind wants that.well, see. that's what i mean.
if a man has trouble so much trouble finding a woman for a relationship
that he's enrolled in a "how to pick up women" type of class;
their problems are more serious and go beyond that.
i don't think there's anything wrong in trying to better yourself
by improving your social skills
god knows, we all need a bit of help in that area,
but if you're starting with classes
on how to be a pick up artist then it's a misguided move.I did a 3-day boot camp, learning about social dynamics and self-improvement.

Ouch.

[tripostrophe]

^Damn, I hadn't seen that. For the record, I never felt PUA was APA activism so much as it was a pragmatic solution for socially awkward Asian guys. But that DVD is quite objectionable even by my standards. Also, if our posts are being edited, let's just delete this thread.

well, see. that's what i mean.
if a man has trouble so much trouble finding a woman for a relationship
that he's enrolled in a "how to pick up women" type of class;
their problems are more serious and go beyond that.
i don't think there's anything wrong in trying to better yourself
by improving your social skills
god knows, we all need a bit of help in that area,
but if you're starting with classes
on how to be a pick up artist then it's a misguided move.

I understand your and tripostrophre's qualms. Believe it or not, my own prudish moral beliefs keep me from completely endorsing Asian Playboy. However, since joining this site, I really haven't seen any practical attempt to get Asian guy's out of their funk.

At worst it's, "Oh quit whining, you're imagining it," and at best it's "Yes, AM are stereotyped...um, have a nice day." Sorry, but your post is especially guilty of this. People need solutions to problems, not be told that they have "more serious" problems and offered lofty ideals and snail paced approaches.

People like you and tripos, while correct on some level, are just way to idealistic. These guys want to get laid, and you're coming at them with arguments of sexism? LOL Please. You might as well be preaching world peace.

I don't think the point of applehead's post was to ignore the issue and totally shift the focus to something completely different - to me it seemed more like stepping back and taking a look at the bigger issue, possibly of the person's entire self-image for example.

I think it's legit if you feel like there haven't been a lot of practical solutions to what Asian men can do about being effectively asexualized when it comes to dating. But I don't think that the solution offered by asian playboy and others is a good approach to any real-lasting change in a person's lifestyle relationships or overall happiness - so much of this is just learning the moves in a game of smoke and mirrors.

Look at the storytelling DVD he's offering - It's tempting, the thought of being able to flip every story told like a resume to present yourself in such a way that women find you irresistible (lol), but it's so artificial and how are you going to maintain that interest once you've been going out with someone for a few months? It's going to be a constant effort at upkeep in order to maintain this image. Not saying that it's not possible, but you gotta work on the stuff that's projecting this image first - then it'll be interesting regardless of how you present it.

If people stop worrying so much about their presentation and work instead on themselves in order to get to a point where they can be a bit happier with themselves in the first place, they can still hold conversations and be interesting people. There would be no need to spin everything. Sure, it's natural to try and present ourselves in a certain way with all our interactions in order to make ourselves more likeable, but when your approach lies more in the pitch than the product - that's gonna mean a lot of unsatisfied people, in any type of relationship.

And then does this mean that you have to start thinking about how you present yourself in every other kind of relationship you have? Constantly considering how to come off as 'manly' and confident to your friends, funny too and all that jazz? Again, we all do that with our relationships but it's important not to lose sight of what's going on inside while we build up these magnificent facades.

[buttermilkwise]

um... if you read what you quoted, she never suggested that the person do nothing.
rather than write a substantial check to a bunch of PUA instructors with frosted tips and bedazzled jeans, it may be more helpful to talk to someone more professional or take a self improvement course, instead.
for most people, PUA is not seen as a 'self improvement class'. can you blame them?

it's true if that person doesn't have his life in order to write a substantial check, he will automatically have to seek professional help somewhere else.


men have to deal with rejection. and that can be a huge fucking hurdle. and i suppose i can see how some guys think PUA can help them squash the anxiety.
but what you have to understand is that women have to deal with the constant bullshit meter, figuring out if some guy is just feeding them a line. and from what i've seen on tv, that's a major PUA component - telling a woman what you think she wants to hear, so can get your foot in the door.

a.) women can handle themselves.
b.) women will always have to deal with guys hitting on them.
c.) The real underdog in this case, the guy who is socially stunted will end up masturbating at home while he watches the girl of his dreams getting boinked by some other dude who has those skills. A really shitty scenario if you ask me.


Saying things that people want to hear is naturally what people do anyway as part of having a social skill set. If you want truly honest people, then go over to some place like mm.com where people don't have those same filters.

The irony is that PUA's recieve criticism, precisely because they are more transparent in what they do. The real charlatans will always be the hypocrites who employ similar methods, but will adopt a veneer of higher morality.

[tripostrophe]

And I'm not saying all this because I've learned to be at peace with myself (hardly) and figured out how to be honest and real in all my relationships either - but I know there's a reason that most people usually won't give a whole lot of serious consideration to self-help books or even programs when it gets serious. And it's probably not so simple as their own internal biases causing them to reject such solutions out of hand. People eventually realize that they have to turn inwards to really address the root of the problem, and no amount of counseling can compare to understanding yourself on a level approaching something you can live and be okay with. I think the point I'm trying to make is that if you're lacking confidence to approach people, the solution needs to start with you learning to like yourself as a person. You shouldn't have to have someone tell you that you're interesting, likeable, and just generally awesome. You should already know that.

[tripostrophe]

And I can't believe that Asian American Men on YellowWorld are defending this bullshit DVD. Did you even read the description that monkeygone2 posted? Think it's marketed to Asian men first (or at all) and everyone else second? Try googling or youtubing any variant of "how to hook up with asian girls" and tell me how those sites describe Asian women. Talk about 'controversy,' 'shock value,' and 'open-mindedness' all you want but it's obvious that the DVD is targeting asiaphiles. Why do you think it's "controversial" in the first place? Asian women don't need another how-to guide that reduces them to a set of stereotyped features and traits that anyone can score with if they just apply a formula to their interactions with them. I mean, how would you react to a DVD on how to interact with (and manipulate) Asian coworkers that described us as "quiet," "hardworking," and "passive-aggressive"? Do you not see the connection? Imagine interacting with the enlightened idiot who watched the DVD.

And sexism isn't limited to calling Asian Females sellout whores.

And it makes me shudder to see sunflare speak well of that DVD and then use the phrase "our sisters" in the same sentence...

You wonder why the pickup artist ends up needing marriage counseling? These people become so invested in selling this image that they never learn how to be real in their relationships. A great image can sell hundreds of a product, but it can't make up for shitty construction.

[eos]

Goddamn motherfockin shit!

I can't karma you, trip. But you deserve a million for that last post.

Oh and excellent job! guys, on getting the tag function removed. I would be less upset if the tags were at least funny, clever and/or witty. But they weren't.

A sarcastic thumbs up to you guys!

[noname]

What self-improvement class is going to cut straight to the matter and actually get these guys field experience / success?


The boot camps have the aspect of going out "into the field" at night (or day, if day game is the focus) - btw, I don't like much of the PUA lingo, but anyways. That's often the really fun part, of putting into practice all the things that were taught earlier in the day (or at least trying to do so). For some guys, a motivational push from the coaches is needed for them to get started in approaching women.
Girls probably don't understand how hard this is for some guys (and not just Asians), especially if those guys previously never were taught or told how to talk or romantically connect with females, or do things a man is expected to do, like initiate and lead in all the different types of interactions (and perhaps eventually the relationship).

Yeah, the bottom line is that guys need to go meet and talk with girls (and really all kinds of people, for that matter). For most people, like for all activities, it takes a good amount of continuous practice to get better at it. As I've improved, I've gained greater enjoyment from going out (which I previously enjoyed quite a bit to begin with).
For a man and woman to date, have a relationship, get married, and all that, they first have to meet somewhere and somehow, whether through pickup or some other means.

[applehead]

My god, that's such absolutely retarted logic I don't even know where to begin. What gives you the right to judge what these people should do, when you yourself are not in their shoes? Your advice is the equivalent to saying a depressed person shouldn't go seek a psychiatrist or psychologist because that means he's insane and there is something really wrong with him if he needs any medication for his depression. Seriously that is an absolutely fucking retarted way to think.

I takes a lot of courage to face oneself and admit that there is an embarrasing problem that carries a high stigma no thanks in part to people like yourself, and then on top of all of that you want to deny them the freedom to think outside the box? Anyone in that kind of situation should do whatever it takes, no matter what to find a way out of their situation before it is too late.

I'm not saying this to endorse APB's program, it's not perfect either, but I'm saying this because I've been there and I care alot about these individuals who suffer and I want the right people to get the right of kind of help. Your kind of advice will mislead them to a greater life of suffering that consists of masturbation,lonely nights along with the stinging unbearable pain of regret. No one in their right mind wants that.

what are you talking about?
your analogy is so totally off on what i was trying to convey.
if i was to your analogy then what i'm saying is that instead of mentally
depressed people getting the right help they need; albeit in the
form of medication or talk therapy from a reliable professional,
instead they're spending tons of money trying to get answers
from a psychic.

you get it?

these are men who feel that they are having so much trouble
in their dating life that they're willing to go out and find
classes to teach them how to pick up women and enroll themselves in the
class by paying hundreds of dollars.
i'm just suggesting that maybe it's not merely their inability
to attract women, but inability to socialize period.
what's so retarded about me suggesting that maybe their problems
aren't so superficial?

and what's so "out of the box" about learning how to pick up
women at a bar or a club? if anything, it sounds so archaic
and old-fashioned.

:confused: Sorry, you'll have to clarify your point.



lol frosted tips. I almost spit out my coffee.

Anyway, buttermilk more or less voiced my feelings. But even if applehead is inferring what you say, I'll have to disagree. All a psych can do is convince these guys that their hang ups aren't as great as they think. I don't know what a self-improvement course does, but I'm guessing it's a class environment dealing with non-sexual scenarios. In both cases, I still see a guy shelling out a lot of money (especially with a shrink) and only coming away with an intellectual approach to their issues. What self-improvement class is going to cut straight to the matter and actually get these guys field experience / success?

I think it's just a sad case where these guys put it on the pedestal, and they won't be able to get the monkey off their back until they actually get laid. And, as noname, can attest to, that confidence can crossover into other aspects of their lives. Sorry, ladies, but guys can be crazy like that. Only a lucky few have the will and clarity of mind to overcome their mental hangups through simply discussing it. Most of these guys are just not at that level imo.


Call me cynical, but I think bs'ing from both sides is just part of the crazy human mating ritual.

when reading asian playboy''s initial posts
he makes his business goals seem more about
asian male empowerment but then you finished
your statements with "these guys just want to get laid".
hahahahahaha

[cloudzero]

and what's so "out of the box" about learning how to pick up
women at a bar or a club? if anything, it sounds so archaic
and old-fashioned.

i don't have trouble picking up chicks, but have a tough time getting chicks older than me on the internet to send me their pics. how do i overcome this?

[noname]

Oh OK gotcha, I thought it was who ABP referred to as Mr Sounds from betterasianman.com. He was the man I was talking about.

Going on to a different topic, many argue that the PUA method does not work in helping the student to set up for a LTR. William Lee suggested marriage counseling to make up for that problem with the PUA method and LTRs. Can you or someone else elaborate on that?



I do remember the mention of Mr. Sounds on one of the podcasts.

I don't remember William specifically mentioning marriage counseling, but I recall him mentioning how the principles used in interacting in the first meeting (such as A through F, as taught by ABCs of Attraction) also do apply on dates and future interactions. Some adjustments might be needed for each situation though. The "Fun or Fake" aspect seems to come more into play, in that if you're not a genuinely interesting person, she'll find that out soon enough.

There is no single "PUA method". While there are some common principles, different teachers present different methods.

One of the applicable things is identifying what type of woman is someone you meet, and her intentions and level of interest in you. Is she a golddigger, who just wants your money? Does she have self-esteem (or similar kinds of) issues? Is she needy, desperate, or highly approval-seeking? Does she want to be dominant ("wear the pants") in the relationship? Could she be a danger to you?
You can use this to determine whether the girl is truly someone you want to be with, as well as how to talk to her.
And I'm there's much more, in other aspects.

Speaking of LTR's, here is a video about a study done on speed dating, and I can see how it could apply to other social situations - http://www.scienceandsex.com/multi4dm.html
Basically everyone goes in looking for traits of a desirable long-term partner, but in the situation, they become more interested in attraction and in-the-moment fun. Well, you and your potential mate have to start somewhere, and those things do need to be maintained over the long term.

As I've followed and learned this stuff, I've become more aware about how single girls seem to have meeting guys as their main purpose when they go to a social place or event. Especially in NYC, you see so many of them. I've heard about ladies going into such places with fantasies of meeting a special someone, and if that's so, fellas, maybe you could be that guy.
There is a group for medical and dental professionals here, and apparently their events have a good number of people who are not in those professions. I'm sure the events are fun, but you could probably guess what the real draw is. I wonder how well it works. I need to check out what goes on at one of these events some time.

[monkeygone2]

And I can't believe that Asian American Men on YellowWorld are defending this bullshit DVD. Did you even read the description that monkeygone2 posted? Think it's marketed to Asian men first (or at all) and everyone else second? Try googling or youtubing any variant of "how to hook up with asian girls" and tell me how those sites describe Asian women. Talk about 'controversy,' 'shock value,' and 'open-mindedness' all you want but it's obvious that the DVD is targeting asiaphiles. Why do you think it's "controversial" in the first place? Asian women don't need another how-to guide that reduces them to a set of stereotyped features and traits that anyone can score with if they just apply a formula to their interactions with them. I mean, how would you react to a DVD on how to interact with (and manipulate) Asian coworkers that described us as "quiet," "hardworking," and "passive-aggressive"? Do you not see the connection? Imagine interacting with the enlightened idiot who watched the DVD.


thanks for reminding me i was on an asian american forum.

for a while i thought i was in Bizarro Yellow World.

i don't have trouble picking up chicks, but have a tough time getting chicks older than me on the internet to send me their pics. how do i overcome this?

and what about you? looking at your pics, you're either a 4 yr old girl or a squirrel.

[applehead]

noname!
i was totally getting you and nameless confused. =)

i don't have trouble picking up chicks, but have a tough time getting chicks older than me on the internet to send me their pics. how do i overcome this?
well. i don't have the expertise asian playboy claims to have
but why don't you try sending her your picture first.
and don't emphasize the fact that she's older than you.
chicks chicks chicks.

[buttermilkwise]

these are men who feel that they are having so much trouble
in their dating life that they're willing to go out and find
classes to teach them how to pick up women and enroll themselves in the
class by paying hundreds of dollars.
i'm just suggesting that maybe it's not merely their inability
to attract women, but inability to socialize period.
what's so retarded about me suggesting that maybe their problems
aren't so superficial?

That's up for the individual to judge, not a judgement for us to make, either way it’s their money and I don’t see any harm if those that have the financial resources are willing to take a risk to see if it works. That kind of money is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the potential benefits they’d reap from the program.

Also, what gives you the right to make that sort of judgement, when you have never been in their shoes? Fact is most of you people don't give a shit about them.


A lot of people here don’t have the credibility to be making these sort of statements, and that is going to result in doing more harm than good.


and what's so "out of the box" about learning how to pick up
women at a bar or a club? if anything, it sounds so archaic
and old-fashioned.


The fact that you and the others are complaining about PUA, underlies the fact that making a formal course to teach men how to pick up women is stigmatized, because it is seen as unorthodox. (ergo: out of the box)

And I can't believe that Asian American Men on YellowWorld are defending this bullshit DVD. Did you even read the description that monkeygone2 posted? Think it's marketed to Asian men first (or at all) and everyone else second? Try googling or youtubing any variant of "how to hook up with asian girls" and tell me how those sites describe Asian women. Talk about 'controversy,' 'shock value,' and 'open-mindedness' all you want but it's obvious that the DVD is targeting asiaphiles. Why do you think it's "controversial" in the first place? Asian women don't need another how-to guide that reduces them to a set of stereotyped features and traits that anyone can score with if they just apply a formula to their interactions with them. I mean, how would you react to a DVD on how to interact with (and manipulate) Asian coworkers that described us as "quiet," "hardworking," and "passive-aggressive"? Do you not see the connection? Imagine interacting with the enlightened idiot who watched the DVD.

And sexism isn't limited to calling Asian Females sellout whores.

And it makes me shudder to see sunflare speak well of that DVD and then use the phrase "our sisters" in the same sentence...

You wonder why the pickup artist ends up needing marriage counseling? These people become so invested in selling this image that they never learn how to be real in their relationships. A great image can sell hundreds of a product, but it can't make up for shitty construction.

Yeah it is spotty, but hey we all need money to survive.

Besides It would be highly hypocritical for a program that teaches asian men to pick up white chicks, to have a stand against interracial pairings of the opposite even if they are far more common.

Now If the program were to exclusively teach white men how to game asian chicks, all you fellas would have made your point.

[Sunflare]

Think it's marketed to Asian men first (or at all) and everyone else second? Try googling or youtubing any variant of "how to hook up with asian girls" and tell me how those sites describe Asian women. Talk about 'controversy,' 'shock value,' and 'open-mindedness' all you want but it's obvious that the DVD is targeting asiaphiles. Why do you think it's "controversial" in the first place?

And sexism isn't limited to calling Asian Females sellout whores.

And it makes me shudder to see sunflare speak well of that DVD and then use the phrase "our sisters" in the same sentence...

You wonder why the pickup artist ends up needing marriage counseling? These people become so invested in selling this image that they never learn how to be real in their relationships. A great image can sell hundreds of a product, but it can't make up for shitty construction.


tripostrophe -

Yes. I think the DVD was originally meant to be marketed to Asian American men.

The point (again, just repeating myself) is that many Asian men do not know how to interact with other Asian women, because of the IR disparity in itself, because of being socially inadept for whatever reason, because they have misconceptions about the way the Asian woman thinks or what her aspirations are, because many Asian women have misconceptions and a chip on their shoulder concerning Asian men etc. etc. It's pretty obvious that there is a problem with AMs interacting with AFs to some degree --- or else we wouldn't see the rigged dating scene and the bottomless gender gap among APAs that we see today.

Yeah, I never saw the DVD either (and therefore why should you jump to conclusions if you never saw the DVD?) But I'm pretty sure APB is gearing that DVD to Asian men who don't want to just date white ladies, or Latina ladies, or black ladies, etc. but rather date Asian ladies and actually succeed in doing so.


The structure you are referring to is actually very similar to the structure taught in other dating coach services I imagine and is discussed in books, the exception being that APB adjusted his methology thought to the needs of the Asian American man.

If you find the structure to be shitty, well maybe it's perhaps because some ppl don't use what they've learned properly.

I just don't get what the big deal is.


Oh, for the record tripostrophe not all non-Asian men who date AFs are automatically asiaphiles. It's the ones who objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love (as opposed to racist hate), who are the true asiaphiles. But anyway it doesn't matter once such AMs find themselves successful in their dating lives. It becomes something in the background as something insignificant to their personal lives because yeah, they are too busy enjoying interaction with women of all races, from all over the country.

Now If the program were to exclusively teach white men how to game asian chicks, all you fellas would have made your point.

And that's what it boils down too. That's why I see nothing wrong with the 'How to date Asian Girls' DVD or the absofattration.com and its program or BAM and the like. This is all about APA male empowerment and helping AMs to get laid.

Period.

*Mods: Whoever took out the tag function, thank you!! The tags were incredibly annoying.

[eos]

well. i don't have the expertise asian playboy claims to have
but why don't you try sending her your picture first.
and don't emphasize the fact that she's older than you.
chicks chicks chicks.

Girl, just give him a pic already so he can stop bugging me and whoever else he's been hounding for your info.

(It doesn't really have to be you. Just give him something.)

Chicks chicks chicks. (I think you and I should end all our posts with that.)

[Sunflare]

If people stop worrying so much about their presentation and work instead on themselves in order to get to a point where they can be a bit happier with themselves in the first place, they can still hold conversations and be interesting people. There would be no need to spin everything. Sure, it's natural to try and present ourselves in a certain way with all our interactions in order to make ourselves more likeable, but when your approach lies more in the pitch than the product - that's gonna mean a lot of unsatisfied people, in any type of relationship.

And then does this mean that you have to start thinking about how you present yourself in every other kind of relationship you have? Constantly considering how to come off as 'manly' and confident to your friends, funny too and all that jazz? Again, we all do that with our relationships but it's important not to lose sight of what's going on inside while we build up these magnificent facades.

That makes sense. Fundamentally it IS all about self improvement, absolutely, however first impressions is what counts. It is critical that when you meet a person you may be interested in that you demostrate that you have potential to be a ideal partner to that woman you may be pursuing for love.

This can be done without the bootcamps, by just reading carefully the self help books on the subject and apply it. But APB's program takes it a step further in helping the student to create a strategy or structure [specific to Asian men] so that he may be able to find dates with the women he really wants, and create options so the PUA don't have to worry about ever finding a date. Again because he has many options.

Many females already has plenty of options and variety in who they want to date, particularly AFs since nowadays, just as how AMs are the new sugar daddies, knoking the middle age white man off the pedestel, Asian women are also very well represented as the ideal independent minded woman.

if you think about it I would say with beautiful women they are hit on like a dozen times a day. And so all they have to do is pick and choose. (Not that this is a bad thing) The bootcamps helps AMs to be able to grasp that same advantage. Dating options.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions by saying that what APB is teaching is lies. Much of what he teaches are based on books on dating that are best sellers, along with a heavy eduational background on psychology, the writings by activists in APA empowerment movement, and sociology issues among many things. This dude is brilliant.

This thread goes beyond a simple 'advert' if that is what you are saying. This is why other prominent APA sites in the past, such as fighting44s, took APB and his ventures in all seriousness in intelligent discussion, (TWO lengthy threads dedicated to APB and William Lee started by Jaewan and Dialetic - who seems to support what they is doing in carrying on the PUA movement), because he is grabbing the bull by the horns on this dreaded aspect of the APA experience instead of just blindly conforming to misconceptions of the Asian male and. Ignoring the negativity, he's moving along in actually doing something for many of the Asian males who have trouble in this area of personal living with dramatic results.

Now fighting44s regularly have banners to the PUA sites. I think 8Asians too. Even if you notice, on Jenn Fang's reappropriate.com there are banners to betterasianman.com. Almost all the activists pretty much are supportive of what this man is doing, more or less.

[noname]

and what's so "out of the box" about learning how to pick up
women at a bar or a club? if anything, it sounds so archaic
and old-fashioned.


There is a part of pickup that involves meeting people in the daytime.
It is harder for most, but some guys like this better - less competition, no loud music to talk over, you see the girl look and act closer to how she usually is (I'm sure some of you guys have stories about being with you a girl you thought was hot, until seeing her in the light or the next morning - all good, they need love too :p), and she often has less of a guard (or "bitch shield", as some call it) up.
She might like at least the company and attention.
Do girls ever have the fantasy of "Here I was, just doing my thing, and out of nowhere came Prince Charming."? Something I've heard.
Anyways, ideally, if a guy sees someone interesting, he should be able to just go up and talk with that person, no matter where or when.
For the most part, any girl who's not committed to someone is a potential date. If she has a guy, maybe she's still a cool person with single friends.

[noname]

tripostrophe -
The point (again, just repeating myself) is that many Asian men do not know how to interact with other Asian women, because of the IR disparity in itself, because of being socially inadept for whatever reason, because they have misconceptions about the way the Asian woman thinks or what her aspirations are, because many Asian women have misconceptions and a chip on their shoulder concerning Asian men etc. etc. It's pretty obvious that there is a problem with AMs interacting with AFs to some degree --- or else we wouldn't see the rigged dating scene and the bottomless gender gap among APAs that we see today.


For those who regularly attend events with Asian crowds, it might be interesting to discuss the dynamics observed at such events. I'll go more into that when I have a chance.
There's probably an issue for both guys and girls with recognizing and expressing that kind of interest. Looking back, I've screwed that up many times.


Oh, for the record tripostrophe not all non-Asian men who date AFs are automatically asiaphiles. It's the ones who objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love (as opposed to racist hate), who are the true asiaphiles.


For Asians, there is the protection of a girl's social circle. It seems that if a guy really is up to no good, her friends would tell her.

[snailpoo]

Yes. I think the DVD was originally meant to be marketed to Asian American men.
...
Oh, for the record tripostrophe not all non-Asian men who date AFs are automatically asiaphiles. It's the ones who objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love (as opposed to racist hate), who are the true asiaphiles.

Ummm... Are you serious?

Did you even read the description?

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[Sunflare]

Yeah, his punch line is such as to say that all persons of all races are invited to take advantage of the resouces APB has to give. As an entrepreneur, that is the smart thing to do. Maybe you and others must have got the context of that advert in the wrong way.

This sounds hypocritical. Hey there are books and videos that are geared towards AMs on how to date white women with no complaints. So why not material towards how to date Asian women?

[snailpoo]

This sounds hypocritical. Hey there are books and videos that are geared towards AMs on how to date white women with no complaints. So why not material towards how to date Asian women?

What was it again? Oh yeah,

objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love (as opposed to racist hate)

:rolleyes:

Why is it hypocritical? Replace "Asian" with whatever other race you wish, and it's still wrong.

these are men who feel that they are having so much trouble
in their dating life that they're willing to go out and find
classes to teach them how to pick up women and enroll themselves in the
class by paying hundreds of dollars.
i'm just suggesting that maybe it's not merely their inability
to attract women, but inability to socialize period.


Might there not be a middle ground? Obviously nothing further needs to be said about the DVD, but ...

Maybe some guys need an older brother or sister or cousin or friend who was otherwise missing during their formative years. Maybe some guys needed that someone to get them out of their shell. I think if you ask any normally adjusted guy, you'll probably find at least one person who dragged them to that first bar, or who made a great wingman (wingwomen even better), or sat them down and gave them decent advice. Unfortunately, some guys just never had even one person pull them aside for that talk.

I have no idea what's taught in those courses and I have no psychology background to evaluate it even if I did, but there's got to be something out there to fill in for that missing older brother figure for those guys who need one.

[Asian Playboy]

My first ever paying client was actually a Chinese Canadian mother. She hired me to be the big brother that her son, who had been picked on throughout school be neo-Nazi skinheads, never had in order to help him meet women and learn social skills. So I took him under my wing and showed him how to talk to girls where society had failed him.

You don't have to take my word for it, you can read for yourself what he wrote about me 4 years ago:
http://theasianplayboy.blogspot.com/2005/09/testimonial-littlepua.html

Now, I don't know how it is in other non-minority owned companies (well, actually I do, I'm just not going to comment), but there's a reason why we refer to our alumni and fellow students as a Brotherhood. Our alumni are different because we're more than just about "scoring with women" (although it's a very important part), it's about improving ourselves and helping each other out and provide a support network that society, culture, family, and even our sisters failed at.

The pursuit of women is simply what brings us together in the first place. It's a fun hobby to pursue while we go about changing ourselves and, thus, the world.

Now as far as the issue of Asian women go, ironically enough, they are not part of the Asian Men's empowerment movement. They are neither the problem nor the solution. They just don't factor in to begin with.

In other words, to us, to us, we never refer to Asian women as "race traitors" or "sellout whores" or "sluts" because WE DON'T CARE. Neither are there "asiaphiles" because WE DON'T CARE.

They are neither the problem, nor the solution. Only WE (in this case, AMs) are capable of doing something to both rectify the situation and improve upon it.

We don't blame society and we don't blame others. It's up to each individual man to make a difference in his own life.

[Chooky]

Might there not be a middle ground?.......Maybe some guys need an older brother or sister or cousin or friend who was otherwise missing during their formative years. Maybe some guys needed that someone to get them out of their shell. I think if you ask any normally adjusted guy, you'll probably find at least one person who dragged them to that first bar, or who made a great wingman (wingwomen even better), or sat them down and gave them decent advice. Unfortunately, some guys just never had even one person pull them aside for that talk.

I have no idea what's taught in those courses and I have no psychology background to evaluate it even if I did, but there's got to be something out there to fill in for that missing older brother figure for those guys who need one.

I agree 100% with this. It’s easy to be judgmental about these programs and even though I agree with some of the criticisms that people have put forward, no-one has really tried to suggest a good alternative other than well-meaning but vague notions of self-improvement. Criticism without offering a viable alternative is not constructive and simply isn’t convincing.

As some have suggested, there may be more profound underlying psychological reasons for the inability of some Asian men to develop sexual relationships and indeed they may need more than to learn basic pick-up techniques, and I agree with this. But I don’t think that it automatically follows that someone who is inept around women will also be generally socially awkward. It’s common for high-powered confident people to have sexual anxieties and for sexually confident people to be generally socially awkward.

But, if it is true that some Asian men have developed profound “phobias” concerning their sexuality and we subsequently negatively judge them for attending a PUA class then we’re being extremely unfair. It’s widely reported that Asians are culturally averse to admitting to any kind of mental health condition, let alone seeking help for them. It’s been reported that in some Asian cultures it’s considered shameful to have any kind of condition that could be construed as a psychological condition. So to suggest self-improvement and professional psychological help is to suggest that an individual overcome the shame of cultural and social pressures from family and community, in addition to admitting to a very humiliating problem of feeling sexually inferior to a group of people that may have some responsibility in causing the phobia in the first place and from whom he may not receive any support. Could that be one reason why some Asian men see PUA classes as an attractive option?

I also don’t know what the PUA classes teach exactly, but it seems to be structured around the idea of behavioral modification techniques in a group setting that provides support and positive reinforcement when an individual achieves a goal. This is ironic, because behavioral modification techniques in a group therapy setting are exactly what a therapist might prescribe for an individual with these kinds of issues.

The DVD is bullshit. Given that Asian women have been targeted for rape based on notions of being “exotic and elusive” it goes way beyond sexism.

[Sunflare]

:rolleyes:

Why is it hypocritical? Replace "Asian" with whatever other race you wish, and it's still wrong.

No it is not wrong. Do I have to explain myself a third time?

The DVD is bullshit. Given that Asian women have been targeted for rape based on notions of being “exotic and elusive” it goes way beyond sexism.

So your saying the DVD in itself promotes rape? OMFG. I think this is a out of proportion statement to make.

[buttermilkwise]

Maybe some guys need an older brother or sister or cousin or friend who was otherwise missing during their formative years. Maybe some guys needed that someone to get them out of their shell. I think if you ask any normally adjusted guy, you'll probably find at least one person who dragged them to that first bar, or who made a great wingman (wingwomen even better), or sat them down and gave them decent advice. Unfortunately, some guys just never had even one person pull them aside for that talk.


They are the only reason why I even bother to participate in any of these threads. From my own personal experience I realize how important it is, and how absolutely critical that people who are unfortunate receive the help they need.

The need to realize the situation that they are in, not be ashamed to admit where they are, be free from the judgmental views of society, family, and peers, even the people on this forum, and not be ashamed to look at ANY OPTION as low or unorthodox as it may seem, when it comes to finding a way out.

Hell even seeing a Psychic for advice is better than doing nothing.


But, if it is true that some Asian men have developed profound “phobias” concerning their sexuality and we subsequently negatively judge them for attending a PUA class then we’re being extremely unfair.

That's what i've been trying to stop from happening here in the first place.

It’s widely reported that Asians are culturally averse to admitting to any kind of mental health condition, let alone seeking help for them. It’s been reported that in some Asian cultures it’s considered shameful to have any kind of condition that could be construed as a psychological condition. So to suggest self-improvement and professional psychological help is to suggest that an individual overcome the shame of cultural and social pressures from family and community, in addition to admitting to a very humiliating problem of feeling sexually inferior to a group of people that may have some responsibility in causing the phobia in the first place and from whom he may not receive any support. Could that be one reason why some Asian men see PUA classes as an attractive option?

Last question is speculative, but i'd bet if people seeking qualified psychiatric help are looked down upon, the chances of them looking down upon someone taking PUA courses is the same if not more so, from the conditions that you ascribe above.

[Sunflare]

The problem here is that many APAs who are living successful lives already since they must have had everything handed to them on a silver platter cannot relate (or refuse to relate) to the suffering of other APA males who desperately need help to get their social lives in order. So they can live fulfilling lives. Hence this argument over a stupid ass DVD and a PUA bootcamp which many AMs can learn from. The fact that there is asiaphiles who misuse the material in the DVD is BESIDES THE POINT.

Not surprisingly. Such ppl who are aloof, presumptuous, judgmental and ignorant look down upon those who are disadvantaged. There too 'successful' to give a shit of the other APAs under them who actually have legitimate problems. Unbelievable.

Like how ppl look down upon homosexuals or those who are mentally challenged or suffer from psychiatric disorders in ignorance, refusing to take off those rose colored glasses and come back to reality.

Like looking down on ppl who are homeless and automatically assuming that all ppl who are homeless are drug addicts deadbeats and criminals. No they need help. Many of them are suffering from mental disorders and need treatment.

Well AMs who are socially inadept are also automatically stigmatized and have legitimate social problems and need help. A help of a psychologist only solves a part of the problem.

Don't you guys get it!!!!!??? Many AMs are subject to being stigmatized because of stereotypes and /or personal problems and it harms them psychologically. Furthermore many of these AMs who do take advantage of the bootcamp are those who are socially inadept and need assistance to repair their social lives. If they don't get the help they need, they will be stuck in the rut they are in, unable to find happiness in their romantic lives, and unable to learn the social skills needed to make it in the social scene.

Whoever made the analogy that the bootcamp is comparable to some sort of gimmick do NOT understand that this program is intended to help the very legitimate problems with some AMs with not just their dating lives but by extension their social lives as a whole.

[Banana]

I just have to agree with two things. This stopped being "activism" once there was a bill involved. If you wish to help and actually care about others, it's supposed to be free.

I also don't believe that this is even close to helping out Asian America. At first glance, yes. However, once I saw that DVD marketing Asian women, that flew out the window because in order to stop the destruction of self confidence, you're marketing a product that directly contradicts that.

[Sunflare]

I just have to agree with two things. This stopped being "activism" once there was a bill involved. If you wish to help and actually care about others, it's supposed to be free. I agree 100% with this. It’s easy to be judgmental about these programs and even though I agree with some of the criticisms that people have put forward, no-one has really tried to suggest a good alternative other than well-meaning but vague notions of self-improvement. Criticism without offering a viable alternative is not constructive and simply isn’t convincing.

As some have suggested, there may be more profound underlying psychological reasons for the inability of some Asian men to develop sexual relationships and indeed they may need more than to learn basic pick-up techniques, and I agree with this. But I don’t think that it automatically follows that someone who is inept around women will also be generally socially awkward. It’s common for high-powered confident people to have sexual anxieties and for sexually confident people to be generally socially awkward.

I don't agree with you on the DVD at all, again, it has been confirmed beyond where the sun sets that there is obviously something wrong with interaction between the sexes in the APA communities and the DVD will be helpful to AMs who have trouble with interaction with their own counterparts.

However otherwise I agree with what you are saying (see my previous post). There are alternatives to self improvement, that's exactly what I said too. But I think the program in question here is a big step towards a specialized alternative specifically tailored to the needs of Asian males.

A man can read all the dating books in the world, seek psychotherapy, and hopefully gain support from well meaning friends who understands and show concern. But how can that man put that all together into a coherent structure that works to establish relationships with the opposite sex?

That is where the bootcamps come in.

I just have to agree with two things. This stopped being "activism" once there was a bill involved. If you wish to help and actually care about others, it's supposed to be free.

My understanding is that the PUAs running this program do not really gain personal profits from the charge for a bootcamp and DVDs, the profits made are used to maintaining the websites and blogs, podasts, and so forth. Seriously, MONEY is what makes the world go round. What can I say?Many of these PUAs have full time jobs and they are sacrificing their time to do what they are doing. All they are gaining from this is the satisfation in helping other AMs to completely turn their lives around so they an have the social tools they need to enjoy interaction with others.



Might there not be a middle ground? Obviously nothing further needs to be said about the DVD, but ...



Why? Because you refuse to accept that fact that again, the DVD will help AMs who are socially inadept in interacting with women who are Asian like them?

[Sunflare]

So your saying the DVD in itself promotes rape? OMFG. I think this is a out of proportion statement to make.


The DVD is bullshit. Given that Asian women have been targeted for rape based on notions of being “exotic and elusive” it goes way beyond sexism.

Alright seriously,

What you should be really angry at is the damn porn industry where there are unfortunately many AFs forced into prostitution for the sexual perversions of the white man.

I abhor it and am totally fucking disgusted with the sex trade and the treatment of AFs involved in it.

That goes way beyond a DVD by APB. This is sexism and racism inflicted at Asian women in the harshest way possible, creating the notion that AFs are hypersexualized, and sluts.

This is why you saw that knee jerk reaction out of me.

[applehead]

Might there not be a middle ground? Obviously nothing further needs to be said about the DVD, but ...

Maybe some guys need an older brother or sister or cousin or friend who was otherwise missing during their formative years. Maybe some guys needed that someone to get them out of their shell. I think if you ask any normally adjusted guy, you'll probably find at least one person who dragged them to that first bar, or who made a great wingman (wingwomen even better), or sat them down and gave them decent advice. Unfortunately, some guys just never had even one person pull them aside for that talk.

I have no idea what's taught in those courses and I have no psychology background to evaluate it even if I did, but there's got to be something out there to fill in for that missing older brother figure for those guys who need one.

of course!!! but it ain't with asian playboy. that's for sure.
AUGH.

and i'm not going to feel bad for saying this but if my two posts
in this thread is so significant and detrimental to anyone considering
taking his classes and it leads them to re-consider then good.
i hope he doesn't make a penny more out of taking advantage
of some of these men.

There is a part of pickup that involves meeting people in the daytime.
It is harder for most, but some guys like this better - less competition, no loud music to talk over, you see the girl look and act closer to how she usually is (I'm sure some of you guys have stories about being with you a girl you thought was hot, until seeing her in the light or the next morning - all good, they need love too :p), and she often has less of a guard (or "bitch shield", as some call it) up.
She might like at least the company and attention.
Do girls ever have the fantasy of "Here I was, just doing my thing, and out of nowhere came Prince Charming."? Something I've heard.
Anyways, ideally, if a guy sees someone interesting, he should be able to just go up and talk with that person, no matter where or when.
For the most part, any girl who's not committed to someone is a potential date. If she has a guy, maybe she's still a cool person with single friends.


totally off topic.
but just wondering how they address the issue
of sharing the fact that the men took these type of classes.
how early on in a relationship do they suggest that they tell the women.
(if they suggest that they tell, in the first place)

[noname]

totally off topic.
but just wondering how they address the issue
of sharing the fact that the men took these type of classes.
how early on in a relationship do they suggest that they tell the women.
(if they suggest that they tell, in the first place)

It might be interesting to talk about, but is it really a "need to know" kind of thing that would make much of a difference? Would you say it is more important to you, a girl, how how a guy is now, and how/what he likely will be?

[Sunflare]

Now as far as the issue of Asian women go, ironically enough, they are not part of the Asian Men's empowerment movement. They are neither the problem nor the solution. They just don't factor in to begin with.

In other words, to us, to us, we never refer to Asian women as "race traitors" or "sellout whores" or "sluts" because WE DON'T CARE. Neither are there "asiaphiles" because WE DON'T CARE.


Straight to the point. That shows a healthy mind of thinking which ladies find attractive in a man -- openmindedness.

Please elaborate on the point you made in the highlighted segment.

[nameless]

Why? Because you refuse to accept that fact that again, the DVD will help AMs who are socially inadept in interacting with women who are Asian like them?

Dude, come on. It's clearly in the same vein of the shit that we usually get outraged by. You're doing some serious mental gymnastics to call this APA activism.

You're like Kim Jong Il - way too psycho and nobody has your back on this.

[Sunflare]

*pfft*

Obviously I'm wasting my time at this point trying to explain what's going on here.

Well, what I know is true. You guys can continue with this nonsense sausagefest. Meanwhile I'm going to just do what I have to do to improve myself without this obvious denial, ignorance, negativity, passiveness, and ridiculous assumptions.

I tell you, with this APA movement it clearly deteriorated. The PUA way is the path to follow and don't be surprised if I do the damn bootcamp myself. I'm sure there are alot of gems to find in the ABCs of Attraction bootcamps. I may do this if my current sexual relationship with a Afro-American woman fails.

Why? I like to do something about things instead of just talking until I'm blue in the face appeasing the ultra feminists on the board.

Happy posting. I got better things to do then post on a obviously effeminated board. Like actively looking for romance.

[monkeygone2]

lmfao

[Sunflare]

Laugh. Go ahead. Meanwhile all mouth and no action. Lets continue to let the APA movement fall apart. Because people are in denial over the problem. How pathetic.

No offense but some of you need to stop living on the internet, and take things for what they are in the real world. The disparity is real, but on the internet it becomes an exaggerated illusion. No one is out to get you.

buttermilkwise nailed it. In other words, instead of bitching on the net, get off ur ass and actually do something about it. You know, in the real world.



With that I'm done with this thread which is turning into an idiotic insensible shitfest.

[monkeygone2]

Laugh. Go ahead. Meanwhile all mouth and no action. Lets continue to let the APA movement fall apart. Because people are in denial over the problem. How pathetic.



buttermilkwise nailed it. In other words, instead of bitching on the net, get off ur ass and actually do something about it. You know, in the real world.

but it took you less than a year to log over 3,000 posts here.

anyway, i was just laughing. i forgot why.

[eos]

Hm. Here's something interesting for everyone to ponder:

AsianWeek article (http://www.asianweek.com/2008/02/08/proselytizing-%E2%80%98the-game%E2%80%99/)

“It is true that a lot of this is misogynistic,” Tran conceded. “I try to lead by my own lifestyle, by setting a good example. But at the same time, I don’t teach ethics. It’s up to each guy to decide what to do with it.”



Now, does everyone here know what that word means? No? Then look it up and THEN get back to us "anti-APA movement" people on the merits of this program. Kthxbye.

[Asian Playboy]

The Asian Men's empowerment movement IS the new "APA movement."

[monkeygone2]

The Asian Men's empowerment movement IS the new "APA movement."

yes. bowel movement.

[cloudzero]

it's more of a recession, the more you emphasize how much AMs need help, the more convinced everyone will be that there is a problem, and that does that help the reputation of the AM. can't you find another way to make money?

[Asian Playboy]

Not too long ago, someone asked something very similar asking me to put up a disclaimer, "So can you put an intro note in the front page explaining how because other ethnic guys have been pursuing Asian women so much, it forces Asian men to branch out. This way we can defend ourselves when the haters try to use this site as evidence that Asian men like white women the most but just can't get them."

My response:
http://theasianplayboy.blogspot.com/2009/04/dear-asian-playboy-defend-us-from.html

The PUA Community is composed of 33% (sometimes more depending on the city) of Asians. Case studies of Asian Americans have shown that AMs are the ONLY group of men who are less sexually successful than the women. We have our first dates later on, first girlfriend later on, first kiss later on, and lose our virginity later on then our own women. We are the ONLY male group in America that experiences this.

I don't need to convince people that there's a problem. There IS a problem. Except what I'm doing is helping FIX it. With real solutions. In real life.

[tripostrophe]

No it is not wrong. Do I have to explain myself a third time?



So your saying the DVD in itself promotes rape? OMFG. I think this is a out of proportion statement to make.

http://www.racialicious.com/2009/02/09/quoted-jaemin-kim-on-stereotypes-asian-women-and-hate-crimes/

In Spokane, Washington, two white men and a woman specifically hunted random Japanese women in an elaborately planned scheme to kidnap, rape, sodomize, torture and videotape them. Their motivation? According to police reports, the rapists had a sexual "fantasy" and "fixation" about young Japanese women, who they believed were "submissive." (The very same beliefs so blatantly bandied about by Gawker and some of its readers.)

Another stunning case of authorities failing to properly apply a "bias crime" label to race-based rapes took place in Los Angeles. In 2005, the LAPD arrested a serial rapist who explicitly only sought Asian-looking women, particularly Koreans, to rape, assault and rob. The man, who was not Asian, was charged with attacking seven women. But the violence extended to more: 13 known women were attacked, all Asian, and 11 of whom were of Korean descent. Police suspected more women were raped, but didn't come forward.

But the biggest obstacle to bias crime charges in those cases is that society at large thinks it benign to hold sexualized stereotypes about Asian women. The woeful abandonment of "hate crime" categorization when Asian women are sexually attacked comes from the mistaken belief that weight should be attached to the attacker's claim to an "attraction" or "fetish" for the victim's Asian race. There is a disconnect: while authorities do not see the "fetish" as an excuse for the rape, they see it as an excuse from hate crime labeling. Like society at large, they fail to see that this is a form of racial discrimination.

Until we see a change in how these types of sexual attacks are perceived, Asian women in particular remain vulnerable. Unlike any other racial group in America today, Asian women routinely are dehumanized in popular culture as sexualized, meek and voiceless objects. These very stereotypes have led to violent attacks. Let's call it what it is: a hate crime.


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

* How to hook up with FOBs, and how to hook up with Asian girls that don't speak english. Everything you need in one DVD!
* What works on Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Hawaiian, Philipino, Laos, Thai, Taiwanese girls.

Nobody is going to make the claim that the DVD 'in itself' promotes rape. But it contributes to a widespread cultural view of Asian women that leads to their objectification, which translates into less respect for them as human beings and thus more likely to be targeted as victims of sexual assault from men who don't see them as women (read: people) in the first place.

If you need a comparison, look at the case of Vincent Chin: you think that when those murderers ebens and nitz were throwing slurs at him and shouting "It's because of you little motherfuckers that we're out of work," it was the direct result of an anti-Japanese commercial they saw on TV? Of course not. But all that vile shit obviously found its way into their minds, and eventually got them to the point where they could view him as something less than human, and thus not entitled to the same basic rights (like life) and respect that they were.

From the first link provided when googling "how to pick up asian girls":
- "Lets be sincere here, Asian girls are pretty and sexy creatures."

A craigslist ad [result #5]: Let me first introduce myself, Im told im very handsome guy, age 41, White 511 about 220 ,blue eyes big build could lose a few pounds but dont look it. Get told i look alot younger than i am typically get 32 - 35. I have a professional business that I am involved with workin in the IT sector , I presently am living with an asian girl who is significantly less my age she is 21 and am starting to get a tad bit bored and im not sure where the relationship will go. I used to live in southeast asia and HK and mainland china but I am expat to those countries but can speak something in 7 different languages in total. I am presently looking for discreet relationship with someone asian who is looking for something fun as well as interesting. If your interested get back to me.

Also within the top ten: http://eppsnet.com/2006/07/why-asian-girls-like-white-guys

...but why don't you go google it for yourself and take a look around?

...and if you TRULY believe that the DVD is originally marketed towards Asian American men, then you're obviously in a mindset that requires willful ignorance of the type that allows white people to say racist shit and just go "oh, I didn't mean it like that, I had no idea that it would be perceived that way..."

This is all about APA male empowerment and helping AMs to get laid.

Go find me another instance of 'male empowerment' and 'getting laid' put together on a site that doesn't demean women.

[nameless]

The Asian Men's empowerment movement IS the new "APA movement."

No, ABC and BAM is more of an AM movement in and of itself. That DVD makes it pretty evident your efforts are not in line with APAs as a whole.

Like NAACP says its for minorities, but when Shaq gets an honor after dissing Yao Ming, we all know what their real agenda is.

it's more of a recession, the more you emphasize how much AMs need help, the more convinced everyone will be that there is a problem, and that does that help the reputation of the AM. can't you find another way to make money?

If you worry about how others view you more than the issue itself, the problem will get worse before it gets better. That's arguably one of the reasons Asian culture struggles with facing mental health issues.

Would we be quick to condemn a psychologist who catered to Asian girls' depression, even if it revealed that Asian patriarchy was to blame? Of course not. Although this really isn't an apt analogy, since PUAs aren't focusing on females as the inherent cause of their problems.


---

Not trying to seem like flip flopper, but both sides needed to be called out here.

[noname]

It is interesting to come across some non-Asian perspectives. On the radio not long ago, I heard women (who I'm guessing were white, but I'm not sure) complaining about and feeling threatened by Asian women, who seemed to be stealing away the guys that they (the callers) were interested in.
Also, there is a "Black Women and Asian Men Interracial Connections" Meetup group in the NYC area. I got a good chuckle when I first saw that in an email, but it tells something about the kind of interest that is out there.
IR dating happens in Asia too, though to a lesser extent. I wonder what it's like in Europe, for people of Asian descent who live there.
People like what they like and (more importantly IMO) like who they like. "Attraction is not a choice" is a saying I've heard.

[SunWuKong]

this is not a bad discussion here, and it's been one of those threads where i've mostly refrained from commenting on even if i happen to agree or disagree with certain opinions.

but i do want to point out - whatever Asian Playboy is saying, even if it may be based on fact, you should keep in mind that the bottom line is, he's running a business and trying to make money from this.

[tripostrophe]

Talk all you want about 8asians and fighting 44s endorsing this shit (btw, is it just me or is f44s pretty male-dominated over there too? and where the fuck is there a banner on reappropriate for this shit?), but if you'd stop and take a look around for a moment, tell me how many women who've contributed to this thread so far have said ANYTHING positive about the program. Or do women not count as 'activists' worth listening to? It's appalling, how little respect you're giving to the opinions of Asian American women while you and apb try and twist this into some commodified form of 'empowerment.' There's a fucking reason that women started stirring shit up in the Chican@, Black and Yellow power movements - men couldn't get their heads out of their asses and start seeing them as equal partners in the movement. you and asianboy talk as if we don't even need to concern ourselves with APA women to empower ourselves (so much for our "sisters") :rolleyes:



Now as far as the issue of Asian women go, ironically enough, they are not part of the Asian Men's empowerment movement. They are neither the problem nor the solution. They just don't factor in to begin with.

In other words, to us, to us, we never refer to Asian women as "race traitors" or "sellout whores" or "sluts" because WE DON'T CARE. Neither are there "asiaphiles" because WE DON'T CARE.

Straight to the point. That shows a healthy mind of thinking which ladies find attractive in a man -- openmindedness.

Please elaborate on the point you made in the highlighted segment.

You talk about "sisters" and "sexism and racism inflected at Asian women," but in the same breath talk about "sugar daddies" and Asian women being "very well represented.":rolleyes:

No fucking activist talks about the 'invisible hand' and working for one's own self-interest as if they're good things that benefit the community. Go find a fucking non-profit and try bringing this bullshit to them, let me know what their reaction is.

And while we're on the topic,

I agree with the reference you quoted from 'Wealth of Nations'

If a person pursues his own self-improvements and needs, then he in turn contributes to the "Invisible Hand" that will benefit society (in this case AMs) as a whole.

"By pursuing his own self interest he frequently promotes that of society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good"(WoN, 456).

The problem here is that many APAs who are living successful lives already since they must have had everything handed to them on a silver platter cannot relate (or refuse to relate) to the suffering of other APA males who desperately need help to get their social lives in order.

Not surprisingly. Such ppl who are aloof, presumptuous, judgmental and ignorant look down upon those who are disadvantaged. There too 'successful' to give a shit of the other APAs under them who actually have legitimate problems. Unbelievable.

Yes, there are students who come to me expecting to join a circle of brothers who will "take down the man," or somehow make Asian American women change their dating preferences, or somehow "fix" the American mainstream media and its related images of Asian American men.

This type of student ultimately discovers that ABCs of Attraction alumni have no interest in doing any of these things (because they're too busy romantically connecting with women left, right, and center)."

And geez, I didn't know that all it took to confirm a statement was agreeing with yourself multiple times when several different people have attacked your argument. :rolleyes:

I hear what people are saying about a middle ground, Asian American men who feel emasculated, lacking confidence in themselves and all that needing mentorship. Also about the need for an alternative solution, though I'm sorry that I haven't put very much thought into a set of neatly packaged, $875 a pop 3-4 day bootcamps. Perhaps that's something to discuss in another thread? I feel like this thread should be marked as spam/advertising and locked. It's clear now that Jerry is just letting the debate rage on and snagging at interested people whenever they have a question about the program. He already knows what his ultimate goal is, and ain't nothing changing. Ban him!!

[Sunflare]

Talk all you want about 8asians and fighting 44s endorsing this shit (btw, is it just me or is f44s pretty male-dominated over there too? and where the fuck is there a banner on reappropriate for this shit?), but if you'd stop and take a look around for a moment, tell me how many women who've contributed to this thread so far have said ANYTHING positive about the program. Or do women not count as 'activists' worth listening to? It's appalling, how little respect you're giving to the opinions of Asian American women while you and apb try and twist this into some commodified form of 'empowerment.' There's a fucking reason that women started stirring shit up in the Chican@, Black and Yellow power movements - men couldn't get their heads out of their asses and start seeing them as equal partners in the movement. you and asianboy talk as if we don't even need to concern ourselves with APA women to empower ourselves (so much for our "sisters") :rolleyes:



You talk about "sisters" and "sexism and racism inflected at Asian women," but in the same breath talk about "sugar daddies" and Asian women being "very well represented.":rolleyes:

No fucking activist talks about the 'invisible hand' and working for one's own self-interest as if they're good things that benefit the community. Go find a fucking non-profit and try bringing this bullshit to them, let me know what their reaction is.

And while we're on the topic,







And geez, I didn't know that all it took to confirm a statement was agreeing with yourself multiple times when several different people have attacked your argument. :rolleyes:

I hear what people are saying about a middle ground, Asian American men who feel emasculated, lacking confidence in themselves and all that needing mentorship. Also about the need for an alternative solution, though I'm sorry that I haven't put very much thought into a set of neatly packaged, $875 a pop 3-4 day bootcamps. Perhaps that's something to discuss in another thread? I feel like this thread should be marked as spam/advertising and locked. It's clear now that Jerry is just letting the debate rage on and snagging at interested people whenever they have a question about the program. He already knows what his ultimate goal is, and ain't nothing changing. Ban him!!

Take a couple of deep breaths and calm down. I meant to end my participation in this thread but since you still have concerns about my POV, I'll respond.

Only two women contributed to this thread. Do they represent the views of the 100,000+ Asian American women in this country? Who actually are pleased with the PUA movement? I'm not talking about the stupid internet, I'm talking about actual people.

And what about the men?

The point is that the posters here on this board certainly do not represent the majority of APAs in the walks of life who may actually be in agreement with what APB is doing as opposed to the participants of this thread.

I am very aware of the plights of the Asian woman and what they are going through. Very, very aware. Might as well copy and paste to prove my point:


So your saying the DVD in itself promotes rape? OMFG. I think this is a out of proportion statement to make.

Alright seriously,

What you should be really angry at is the damn porn industry where there are unfortunately many AFs forced into prostitution for the sexual perversions of the white man.

I abhor it and am totally fucking disgusted with the sex trade and the treatment of AFs involved in it.

That goes way beyond a DVD by APB. This is sexism and racism inflicted at Asian women in the harshest way possible, creating the notion that AFs are hypersexualized, and sluts.




You keep on datamining me with the history of APA activists who carried on the lead in the APA movement. Furthermore twisting my posts around and whatever in a fervor to add weight to your argument for a internet win like that's so incredibly important. My eyes started to glaze just looking at it.

Well, they did NOT completely succeed in their goal of fighting off harmful stereotypes -- AMs and AFs alike. What you are saying, I think is way out in left field. Hmmm. Frank Chin for example, brilliant man, did a heck of alot for the APA empowerment movement, but still single. That is very significant.

Asian Playboy is taking an unorthodox approach to APA male-ism in a way the APA activists never could. He should be commended for his efforts, not shitted on like you are doing here.


And you still refuse to accept the fact that many of these AMs need help in reconstructing their social and sex lives. Futhermore don't you realize that the date AF DVD is a good tool to help AMs who have trouble in this area? Instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions, buy the DVD THEN come up with a more sensible answer.

Calling this spam and persuading the moderation team to ban Asian Playboy, now that's absolutely ridiculous. He was hosted on other APA sites and NEVER did I ever see such a ridiculous shitfest as this.

Instead of flying off the handle with rage, why don't you try to look into the PUA movement a little closer and see that alot of what you are saying are based on misconceptions instead of jumping to misguided conclusions.

Finally yeah nobody agrees with me on my opinions on this. It does'nt matter to me. They don't pay my bills and put food on the table, tie my shoelaces or wipe my ass for me, and certainly don't do the thinking for me. So why should I care? I'm not here looking for approval and appeasement. I made up my mind a long time ago what is the deal of the evolving APA movement an am sticking to it whether ppl like it or not.

Oh, and again does the handful of members left on this board represent the entire APA community? I think not. They may actually may be in approval of APB and his endeavors. After all, his site alone recieved 2 million hits, and his bootcamps are always practially sold out. That's also very signifigant in terms of the Asian American public and what they want to do to fight off their problems with themselves and a society that obscures the truth about APAs.


...and if you TRULY believe that the DVD is originally marketed towards Asian American men, then you're obviously in a mindset that requires willful ignorance of the type that allows white people to say racist shit and just go "oh, I didn't mean it like that, I had no idea that it would be perceived that way..."

What are you implying? That I'm a sellout? You need to repost that in a way that makes actual sense. Then you may expect a sensible answer.



Go find me another instance of 'male empowerment' and 'getting laid' put together on a site that doesn't demean women.

How can I do so when it seems that your perception of what is demeaning to women seems to be delusional to say the least.?



You're like Kim Jong Il - way too psycho and nobody has your back on this.

Again: Does the POV of a few ppl on a random APA forum who are opposed to the PUA/male-ism movement represent the POVs of the majority of APAs living in this country?


Yeah nobody agrees with me on my opinions on this. So? It does'nt matter to me. They don't pay my bills and put food on the table, tie my shoelaces or wipe my ass for me, and certainly don't do the thinking for me. So why should I care? I'm not here looking for approval and appeasement. I made up my mind a long time ago what is the deal of the evolving APA movement and am sticking to it whether ppl like it or not



***************************************

Asian Playboy, you are doing a good thing. My regrets for you having to receive such offensive remarks from the participants in this thread because of ignorance and hangups, phobias and such on the part of the majority of those participating on this thread.

Hate to say it, you might as well move on and spread your message somewhere else where ppl will be more receptive and respectful of others as to your hard work in the PUA movement.

You're right. Most AM PUAs are shunned by most of those in the APA community. It's a shame isn't it?

[snailpoo]

...and if you TRULY believe that the DVD is originally marketed towards Asian American men, then you're obviously in a mindset that requires willful ignorance of the type that allows white people to say racist shit and just go "oh, I didn't mean it like that, I had no idea that it would be perceived that way..."

No, no, no. You'll never convey your point properly unless you borrow something from eos.

http://perspect.siuc.edu/04_sp/images/crayons.jpg

Hrm... do I bother? Should I bother? Do I need to borrow construction paper from applehead first?

No it is not wrong. Do I have to explain myself a third time?

Why should you explain yourself a third time when it's obvious that you're willfuly ignoring what you yourself said the first time.

Let's repeat:

objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love (as opposed to racist hate),

I know it's a hard concept, but try to read it again:

objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love (as opposed to racist hate),

YOU said this in reference to asiaphiles as negative traits to be avoided. These are YOUR words. Since you've missed this point for several threads now, let's try again:

objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love (as opposed to racist hate),

Got it? Are you sure? We can repeat again if necessary.

Now I know this is hard for you, but try to read the description of the video again. Slowly. Word for word. Just from the descriptions of this video and just from the way the video itself is sold and marketed, how does it or does it not, in your own words, objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a (sic) Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love"?



What's absolutely unbelievable is that, somehow, you were able to read a BBC article about Cleopatra and see racism and a global conspiracy in it (and yet were somehow unable to actually quote any particular passage out of it to prove your point) but you are now unable to read the description of this video without seeing anything wrong with it. Seriously, does reading and comprehension have any meaing in your version of reality, or do you just make up crap irregardless of what words are actually written?

[kusojiji]

Snail + tri = correct

flare = impotent sexist little turd

[cloudzero]

http://perspect.siuc.edu/04_sp/images/crayons.jpg


im definitely the blue one

[buttermilkwise]

Not trying to seem like flip flopper, but both sides needed to be called out here.

For the record as well, i'm not endorsing APB and his program, I'm only trying as much as to dispell a bit of the ignorance and naivete that quite a few people in this thread have and I am going to clarify a bit.

It is true APB's primary job foremost is to sell his program for a living, you can't expect him to be completely upfront, in the same way you can't expect anyone who hates the boss they work for to say they want to shove a hot poker up his ass. While I have my opinion, It would be nice for someone with experience to give a realistic and objective appraisal without any of the bigoted stuff i've seen flying all over the place. It would help in his defense if he was a bit more transparent about his motivations because i'm seeing abit of misleading claims (which any reasonable person worth their salt can tell), but at the same time it would also help if people here didn't want to tear him apart so badly.

The other edge of the sword though, is as a fact no business can't survive if it isn't reputable enough and the client doesn't receive the services that he paid for. APB isn't going to get very far here or anywhere else just by the sheer fact that the people that goe through his program don't achieve some level of satisfaction with the services that are rendered. A scam doesn't last long, even in services like gun running, drug dealing, prostitution, gangsters will have to abide by some level of honesty to get business going. Anyone here can make irrational value judgements all they want but no one can dispute this. Unless someone can bring up quantifiable and incontrovertible evidence that the program is a scam, it is a waste of time to try and knock it down.

And please the rest of you knock off with the accusations of misogyny, sexism, and grow up. No one is raging about dismantling asian fraternities in college (which the dynamics of this program mirrors), destroying japanese pornography, getting all asian men to stop masturbating to misogynistic images in their minds. Seriously let's put all asian men in strait jackets, so they can never make any moral mistakes and make them look like the perfect model minorities they are, while the white guys get to go around as they please and fuck everyone in the ass, especially asian women because asian men no longer have the balls to do anything without their consent for fear of making a misogynistic or sexist mistake.

And that is precisely the paradox of this whole thing, and why the vague alternative approaches of doing nothing is going to fail completely. This is why I accept APB's program as something that is valid despite all it's inherently requisite moral scruples and flaws which is sadly inescapable and make it a prime target for being stigmatized.

Two years ago, I would have objected to this program, but through my own learning process, I've realized that no one can force someone to learn by telling them what they can and cannot do. As Kimpossible put it in an earlier thread, people need the freedom and the space to make mistakes.

[Banana]

This thread is nothing but word salad.

[Sunflare]

Snail + tri = correct

flare = impotent sexist little turd

Angry angry. LOL. You know you love me. Don't be mad at me my sweet darling.

No, no, no. You'll never convey your point properly unless you borrow something from eos.

http://perspect.siuc.edu/04_sp/images/crayons.jpg

Hrm... do I bother? Should I bother? Do I need to borrow construction paper from applehead first?


Get me a coloring book. I hate construction paper.


but you are now unable to read the description of this video without seeing anything wrong with it. Seriously, does reading and comprehension have any meaing in your version of reality, or do you just make up crap irregardless of what words are actually written?

Maybe that's a question you should ask YOURSELF buddy.

Yes I can read. Obviously or else I wouldn't be able to read and respond to posts. Use your common sense , I mean cmon!! Doi!!!

What's absolutely unbelievable is that, somehow, you were able to read a BBC article about Cleopatra and see racism and a global conspiracy in it (and yet were somehow unable to actually quote any particular passage out of it to prove your point) but you are now unable to read the description of this video without seeing anything wrong with it. Seriously, does reading and comprehension have any meaing in your version of reality, or do you just make up crap irregardless of what words are actually written?

I assuming you posted about the subject about Cleopatra in the wrong thread.


For the record as well, i'm not endorsing APB and his program, I'm only trying as much as to dispell a bit of the ignorance and naivete that quite a few people in this thread have and I am going to clarify a bit.

It is true APB's primary job foremost is to sell his program for a living, you can't expect him to be completely upfront, in the same way you can't expect anyone who hates the boss they work for to say they want to shove a hot poker up his ass. While I have my opinion, It would be nice for someone with experience to give a realistic and objective appraisal without any of the bigoted stuff i've seen flying all over the place. It would help in his defense if he was a bit more transparent about his motivations because i'm seeing abit of misleading claims (which any reasonable person worth their salt can tell), but at the same time it would also help if people here didn't want to tear him apart so badly.

The other edge of the sword though, is as a fact no business can't survive if it isn't reputable enough and the client doesn't receive the services that he paid for. APB isn't going to get very far here or anywhere else just by the sheer fact that the people that goe through his program don't achieve some level of satisfaction with the services that are rendered. A scam doesn't last long, even in services like gun running, drug dealing, prostitution, gangsters will have to abide by some level of honesty to get business going. Anyone here can make irrational value judgements all they want but no one can dispute this. Unless someone can bring up quantifiable and incontrovertible evidence that the program is a scam, it is a waste of time to try and knock it down.

And please the rest of you knock off with the accusations of misogyny, sexism, and grow up. No one is raging about dismantling asian fraternities in college (which the dynamics of this program mirrors), destroying japanese pornography, getting all asian men to stop masturbating to misogynistic images in their minds. Seriously let's put all asian men in strait jackets, so they can never make any moral mistakes and make them look like the perfect model minorities they are, while the white guys get to go around as they please and fuck everyone in the ass, especially asian women because asian men no longer have the balls to do anything without their consent for fear of making a misogynistic or sexist mistake.

And that is precisely the paradox of this whole thing, and why the vague alternative approaches of doing nothing is going to fail completely. This is why I accept APB's program as something that is valid despite all it's inherently requisite moral scruples and flaws which is sadly inescapable and make it a prime target for being stigmatized.

Two years ago, I would have objected to this program, but through my own learning process, I've realized that no one can force someone to learn by telling them what they can and cannot do. As Kimpossible put it in an earlier thread, people need the freedom and the space to make mistakes.

Good post buttermilkwise. That pretty much in summary explains every aspect of this topic for discussion and why we are seeing the negative reaction from practically everybody here. I really don't think there is nothing else that really needs to be discussed.

[Sunflare]

What is this anyway, high school? Maybe I should make airplanes out of the construction paper and toss it at Professor Sarcasm in class to get him mad.



Yeah get the construction paper. Good idea.

[snailpoo]

What's absolutely unbelievable is that, somehow, you were able to read a BBC article about Cleopatra and see racism and a global conspiracy in it (and yet were somehow unable to actually quote any particular passage out of it to prove your point) but you are now unable to read the description of this video without seeing anything wrong with it. Seriously, does reading and comprehension have any meaing in your version of reality, or do you just make up crap irregardless of what words are actually written?

Yes I can read. Obviously or else I wouldn't be able to read and respond to posts. Use your common sense , I mean cmon!! Doi!!!

I assuming you posted about the subject about Cleopatra in the wrong thread.


That's hilarious. The question was NOT if you could read,... and you've difinitively answered it.

[noname]

To at least somewhat answer some of buttermilkwise's last post, here is where you can read stories by students of APB (and/or ABCs of Attraction) about their experiences - http://www.abcofattraction.com/community/viewforum.php?f=42

[AngryABCGirl]

im definitely the blue one

Nice.

[noname]

I see "activism" as more of "being active" and people actively taking more control of their lives and situations. One possible way for guys to start is by learning that they can improve their social/dating/love/sex lives, and that could extend to other things. Seems like a fun way to do so. Couldn't you say that one better person (in whatever way that may be) makes his group better (much like a sports team)?
Something interesting I've heard is that many guys (again, not just Asians) who get into pickup, initially just wanting to be better with women, become more interested in overall personal improvement.

[pikachupacabra]

Fuck you all, I'm going to single handedly solve this "disparity" by getting wasted on bud light and drunkenly drooling all over any girl I can in the bar around the corner. WHO'S WITH ME

[Sunflare]

Got it? Are you sure? We can repeat again if necessary.


OK let's go:

Now I know this is hard for you, but try to read the description of the video again. Slowly. Word for word. Just from the descriptions of this video and just from the way the video itself is sold and marketed, how does it or does it not, in your own words, objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a (sic) Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love"?

Look, you need to get the right context of the description of the video. Look at the highlighted portion in the quoted statement:


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

If you're a guy who is even just a little into Asian women, there is a HUGE secret that you NEED to know.

For a LIMITED time, ABCs of Attraction is re-releasing Johnny Wolf's CLASSIC DVD: How to Hook up with Asian Girls.

An instant hit, ABCs' lead instructor will take you step by step into the wold of attracting, dating and keeping Asian women.

See the program that seduction guru JT the Asian Playboy has called :remarkable in its effectiveness!"

So again:

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

One of these is about to change. What is it that is about to change? Ummm.... the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women. The message is that the DVD (I'm assuming) will help people to understand first the sensitivities of the Asian women, and second, help the viewer to understand how Asian ladies think and feel, furthermore how to start conversation with an Asian lady the right way, positive conversation without bringing into play expressions based on stereotypes.

Where I believe you are missing the mark is that you are looking at the message from the wrong context.

Perspective snailpoo, it's all about perspective.

Many times you tend to take things literally when discussing a variety of matters and fail to get the right context in the points made in various discussions, instead you datamine the heck out of ppl with opposing argument and go off with the questions to try to persuade ppl into accepting things about whatever subject you are discussing with ppl with opposing viewpoints.

Well at least you seem to do so, data bombing and asking contradictory questions that does not help whoever you are debating with to get the real deal about whatever you are discussing, showing a sense of respect for a person's dignity, as opposed to some who are screaming like others until I swear my LCD screen is going to crack with the ranting and raving. I got to give you credit for that.



What's absolutely unbelievable is that, somehow, you were able to read a BBC article about Cleopatra and see racism and a global conspiracy in it (and yet were somehow unable to actually quote any particular passage out of it to prove your point) but you are now unable to read the description of this video without seeing anything wrong with it. Seriously, does reading and comprehension have any meaing in your version of reality, or do you just make up crap irregardless of what words are actually written?

What you are insinuating is that I must have a warped view of reality concerning the world around me. Well you are wrong. No I don't suffer from hallucinations, grandiose illusions, the effects of using illicit drug, nor am I going to go on blindly believing what everyone is telling me when it is clearly false. Seriously, Why do we need stats data and and research papers to come up with a conclusion as to what is going on with the social scene when it is so obvious? This isn't a science project where I have to provide source material that doesn't even exist on the net. Just open your eyes and observe. You do have good vision right?


Now I'll tell you what your problem is: You refuse to even acknowledge that many AMs are in fact suffering from being socially inadept and that some of those persons are having problems with particularly their female counterparts for many reasons. Are you in denial and disbelief or something like many posters here? Seriously.

Let's track back a bit and come to reality here:



Straight up. Let's put all bullshit aside and acknowledge things for what it is. This feeling of being upset and/or angry is based on several reasons, and here are just a few:

1. Asian American women are race traitors! They should be dating Asian American men, not white guys!
2. Asian American women are sell outs! They are dating white men, not because they're inherently better than Asian American men, but because they're trying to improve their social status by being by a white man's side. Even if he's a loser!
3. Ugh! I can't believe that Asian American woman is with that white guy. He's not even as smart / good-looking / tall / handsome / charming as I am. He's a total dork! She's only with him because he's white!
4. Asian American women have bought-in to mainstream media stereotypes of Asian American men! That's why so many of them are dating white guys! They need to see the error of their ways and start dating Asian American guys!


That is fact. This is not an illusion like as if as if you are in a desert, dehydrated and thirsting for water, crawling on your knees, looking at an apparition of a oasis that is not there. This is fact. Fact. Undeniable FACT.

Didn't Asian Playboy say that he has heard these complaints over and over again, consistently with all of his students? And heck, I can see it for myself.

So even as I can see that you are all in a tizzy because of the punchline concerning the dvd, what you fail to realize is that many AMs can benefit from the video. That's my main point. I swear I must have said this so many times I must have lost count by now and I know i am not that bad in math. From what I understand, the video focuses on again, how Asian women think and feel, and how to start conversations in a positive way that can evolve into an intimate relationship.

And again what about other books that serves as guides for Asian men on how to date white women? I don't see ppl going off the beam over it. So why with this DVD? Obviously hypocritical, and no I'm not saying that it's wrong to date a white women. It's the hypocrisy behind many of the statements I read in this thread.



Ever heard of the term "It's OK to agree to disagree?" Do everyone a favor and let's not keep on arguing for the next zillion pages until the servers run out of room to archive the threads.

Also please realize that there are actually Asian men out there that for whatever reason are socially inadept and will need help to get their social lives in order.

What in the world is it that is so hard to understand? Do I have to start typing in simple English so ppl can get the point of what I'm saying? You don't have to agree, but let's not start getting all personal about it twisting the message in the posts conveyed by others, being insulting, forcing viewpoints on others.

Again, it's OK to agree to disagree.

Now do YOU get it?

Fuck you all, I'm going to single handedly solve this "disparity" by getting wasted on bud light and drunkenly drooling all over any girl I can in the bar around the corner. WHO'S WITH ME

I drink coors light.

[Banana]

Incidentally, this was splashed on the front page of Yahoo.com

Dating 101: Dealing With the Race Factor (http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/relationships/24298/dating-101-dealing-with-the-race-factor;_ylc=X3oDMTNuNXVtc2NsBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDMj E0MjI3MzMxNARrA0RlYWxpbmcgV2l0aCB0aGUgUmFjZSBGYWN0 b3IEc2VjA2ZwX3RvZGF5BHNsawNkYXRpbmctMTAxLWRlYWxpbm ctd2l0aC10aGUtcmFjZS1mYWN0b3IEenoDYWJj)

Internet love is not colorblind (http://www.uci.edu/features/2009/04/feature_datingandrace_090421.php?theme=0)

We actually need a study to prove what we already know? I love how people, not only Americans, talk about race these days. They always want to avoid saying that race is very important and it plays a very specific role for specific groups.

It's like someone who mentions this is viewed as a heretic.

[tripostrophe]

OK let's go:

Look, you need to get the right context of the description of the video. Look at the highlighted portion in the quoted statement:

So again:

One of these is about to change. What is it that is about to change? Ummm.... the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women. The message is that the DVD (I'm assuming) will help people to understand first the sensitivities of the Asian women, and second, help the viewer to understand how Asian ladies think and feel, furthermore how to start conversation with an Asian lady the right way, positive conversation without bringing into play expressions based on stereotypes.

Where I believe you are missing the mark is that you are looking at the message from the wrong context.

Perspective snailpoo, it's all about perspective.

Oh, god. I was being such an idiot! This whole time me and the rest of YW were thinking that a dating DVD for men who wanted to hook up with Asian women was going to focus on making them approachable in these men's minds, but now that you've explained it, it all makes sense in the proper perspective - so really it's saying that Asian women are beautiful and elusive...one of those creatures like the quetzal, or a snow leopard.

But I don't know why I'm addressing this when you couldn't even figure out how to use the goddamned footbridge I built you with the example of the coworker and their DVD.

Many times you tend to take things literally when discussing a variety of matters and fail to get the right context in the points made in various discussions, instead you datamine the heck out of ppl with opposing argument and go off with the questions to try to persuade ppl into accepting things about whatever subject you are discussing with ppl with opposing viewpoints.

Well at least you seem to do so, data bombing and asking contradictory questions that does not help whoever you are debating with to get the real deal about whatever you are discussing, showing a sense of respect for a person's dignity, as opposed to some who are screaming like others until I swear my LCD screen is going to crack with the ranting and raving. I got to give you credit for that.

To me, this seems like a vague sentence that doesn't tell me who "some" are. Was it you in another thread who asked people to "man up," and just go ahead and name who they were talking about? At the very least I /know/ you were asking people to stop tagging and just say it to your face. And stop pulling the "stop being so angry" card, like that's going to get you anywhere. People have a right to be pissed.

Really, what gets to me more than anything else is how Johnny comes in, pitches his product as some form of "activism," watches the debate, then steps in every now and then to give a calm, rational answer that doesn't address anything aside from the softball questions his graduates and admirers toss him ("creating dialogue," anyone?). Then he lets his shills take care of the rest: "I was against this whole program at first too, but once I actually stopped and looked into it, I started realizing that this all actually made sense! Haha! Here's a link to some testimonials answering all your questions and concerns!"

I'm all for good sex, healthy relationships, men and women being able to go out there and approach each other (or one another..), and even polyamory, casual (safe) sex if that's what people agree to. And yeah obviously it's true that we've all internalized a lot of self-hate, AF/WM threads have been beaten to death so often that we started asking newbies to just search the archives... but really, looking at the response on 44s and here, it's obvious that the majority of women aren't comfortable with the program while men talk back and forth about the relative merits of boosting their self-esteem at the cost of a woman's worth; compounded by the fact that he's endorsing a DVD that everyone but the most willingly deluded of people see for what it is - targeted at asiaphiles.

Now if people wanted to discuss this shit in another context besides a pitch for the purpose-driven player, I'd be down for that. But I don't think I'll be the one to start it off.

[cloudzero]

Dating 101: Dealing With the Race Factor (http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/relationships/24298/dating-101-dealing-with-the-race-factor;_ylc=X3oDMTNuNXVtc2NsBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDMj E0MjI3MzMxNARrA0RlYWxpbmcgV2l0aCB0aGUgUmFjZSBGYWN0 b3IEc2VjA2ZwX3RvZGF5BHNsawNkYXRpbmctMTAxLWRlYWxpbm ctd2l0aC10aGUtcmFjZS1mYWN0b3IEenoDYWJj)

Internet love is not colorblind (http://www.uci.edu/features/2009/04/feature_datingandrace_090421.php?theme=0)


you damn masochist, WMAF = 174k, AMAF = 2493k

[Sunflare]

Oh, god. I was being such an idiot! This whole time me and the rest of YW were thinking that a dating DVD for men who wanted to hook up with Asian women was going to focus on making them approachable in these men's minds, but now that you've explained it, it all makes sense in the proper perspective - so really it's saying that Asian women are beautiful and elusive...one of those creatures like the quetzal, or a snow leopard.

Were you watching Animal Planet or something when talking about snow leopards or quetzals, etc? Just wondering . . .

Anyway yeah: No you're not an idiot. Just very adherent to your views and beliefs. That's cool with me, I can respect that as much as I totally do not agree with it. At all. You don't have to be condescending to yourself like that.


Playing the angry card? I don't think so. Well some dipshit asshole of a troll called me a little shit basically on the last page with no actual input that actually makes any kind of sense but did I get mad?

No.

I'm not flying off the handle over this discussion at all. Really right now I'm laughing at this emotional tirade as I post.

Furthermore, you got it all wrong as far as my perspective is concerned.

I said (for like the 100th time) that the DVD (One of the PUAs participating in this thread gave me an overview of the DVD in question in a PM) is to help ppl gain the right perspective on Asian women as not elusive, not hypersexualized, not exotic but normal ppl (normal people you know, human beings?) like everyone else and well the DVD helps ppl to get with the program about the do's and don't with dating and respecting the dignity of Asian women I would imagine. Hey even other AMs have this problem let alone the ppl labeled as asiaphiles, they just don't get it on how to treat Asian women as persons and not pieces of meat. And no I'm not one of them.

But I don't know why I'm addressing this when you couldn't even figure out how to use the goddamned footbridge I built you with the example of the coworker and their DVD.


It's not that I cant figure out your analogy, It's more of the fact that don't agree with the message behind it.

To me, this seems like a vague sentence that doesn't tell me who "some" are. Was it you in another thread who asked people to "man up," and just go ahead and name who they were talking about? At the very least I /know/ you were asking people to stop tagging and just say it to your face. And stop pulling the "stop being so angry" card, like that's going to get you anywhere. People have a right to be pissed.

You have every right to be pissed as you are entitled to your POV. But you don't have to start huffing in my face over it either just because I don't agree with you.


Really, what gets to me more than anything else is how Johnny comes in, pitches his product as some form of "activism," watches the debate, then steps in every now and then to give a calm, rational answer that doesn't address anything aside from the softball questions his graduates and admirers toss him ("creating dialogue," anyone?). Then he lets his shills take care of the rest: "I was against this whole program at first too, but once I actually stopped and looked into it, I started realizing that this all actually made sense! Haha! Here's a link to some testimonials answering all your questions and concerns!"

Then scream at Johnny Wolf about it not me!!! What do I have to do with this? Sheesh. Go on the abcsofattraction.com site and scream at him there. Good luck.

For the record, Johnny Wolf is the man as far as I'm concerned and his blog entries kicks ass esp the last one before he took off for a long vacation in Australia, to chase white chicks and go scuba diving like a superstar. Straight to the point and very positive.

I'm all for good sex, healthy relationships, men and women being able to go out there and approach each other (or one another..), and even polyamory, casual (safe) sex if that's what people agree to.

Great. We all are.

Wow we actually are in agreement on something. A milestone for YW.

And yeah obviously it's true that we've all internalized a lot of self-hate, AF/WM threads have been beaten to death so often that we started asking newbies to just search the archives... but really, looking at the response on 44s and here, it's obvious that the majority of women aren't comfortable with the program while men talk back and forth about the relative merits of boosting their self-esteem at the cost of a woman's worth; compounded by the fact that he's endorsing a DVD that everyone but the most willingly deluded of people see for what it is - targeted at asiaphiles.

Again. How many times do I have to say this? What did I tell you about the internet?? . . . look here, you seemed to miss this point about the internet vs REAL LIFE:


Only two women contributed to this thread. Do they represent the views of the 100,000+ Asian American women in this country? Who actually are pleased with the PUA movement? I'm not talking about the stupid internet, I'm talking about actual people.

And what about the men?

The point is that the posters here on this board certainly do not represent the majority of APAs in the walks of life who may actually be in agreement with what APB is doing as opposed to the participants of this thread.



So can you provide me with an answer to this question? It's highlighted in bold just in case you miss it again.


Now if people wanted to discuss this shit in another context besides a pitch for the purpose-driven player, I'd be down for that. But I don't think I'll be the one to start it off.

I don't. I'm seriously tired of arguing about it. I'm just responding to ppl and their posts directed at me. I wanted to stop participating in this thread like two days ago.

[tripostrophe]

Not animal planet, I just googled "beautiful + elusive" *hint* And do you still not get the point that anyone who respects Asian women as people shouldn't have this view of them as some sort of special flavor that requires its own field guide? What's the fucking difference between the example I gave you and this DVD? Neuter every person involved in this situation and look at it again - what's wrong with the picture?? And gee, chasing white chicks like a superstar...mmk. And where the hell do you pull a number like that out of your ass and suddenly have all these women you're speaking on behalf of in agreement with you? You can't just pull numbers out of your ass like that to legitimate yourself. Do the women here on YW and the 44s not count as part of the APA population? I don't think that women who use the internet are more likely to be feminist (who knows?), although it wouldn't surprise me if women who were invested in their identity/a community in terms of their ethnic and racial identity were. Either way, if the general response from women here has been overwhelmingly negative...it should still tell you something. It's not like these people are nothing but their online personas. :rolleyes:

[kusojiji]

I don't. I'm seriously tired of arguing about it. I'm just responding to ppl and their posts directed at me. I wanted to stop participating in this thread like two days ago.


Like really? Like OMG! You should totally like do that! :rolleyes:

[snailpoo]

OK let's go:



Look, you need to get the right context of the description of the video. Look at the highlighted portion in the quoted statement:


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

So again:

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

One of these is about to change. What is it that is about to change? Ummm.... the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women.

Wow. Just, wow.

Seriously, does reading and comprehension have any meaing in your version of reality, or do you just make up crap irregardless of what words are actually written?

Since you have obvious problems with reading and comprehension, I'll take time, just this once, to walk you through your idiocy.

Again, here's the quote you picked:


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

Do you notice that there are THREE adjectives in that list? What are they? Since you obviously missed them, they are "Beautiful," "Exotic," and "Elusive." Did you get that? One, two, three. Are there three other things in that snippet that could possibly be confusing you?

Now the next sentence is "but one of those three is about to change." Those three what? Where in that excerpt are there three of anything? Are there three blind mice? Three idiot mysogenists? Three people who can't read and comprehend basic concepts? No, there are three adjectives. Again, the three are "Beautiful," "Exotic," and "Elusive." I know I'm repeating myself, but somehow you've screwed the pooch on this very easy passive repeatedly.

Now, you in your bizarre version of reality can somehow read this and think:One of these is about to change. What is it that is about to change? Ummm.... the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women.

I'm sorry, did you read the same passage as everyone else? Again,


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

Do you see "the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women" as one three items listed? Actually, do you see "the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women" ANYWHERE in the list? No? Do you actually comprehend the words that are actually written or do you simply apply whatever meaning you extrude from random body orifices?

Read it and try again.


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW

What does "one of those three" refer to? What three things appear in that passage? Any first grader could tell you, "Beautiful," "Exotic," and "Elusive." Now, given that this video is marketed towards guys trying to get Asian women, take a wild ass guess which one of those three adjectives the video is trying to change.

And, bonus points, which one of remaining two adjectives fits your:


objectify Asian women and harbor stereotypical lies concerning a Asian woman's sexuality and identity, with racist love


Seriously, if you attempt to pretend that you are actually more knowledgeable about a subject that someone else, don't force them to teach you how to read first.

[Sunflare]

And do you still not get the point that anyone who respects Asian women as people shouldn't have this view of them as some sort of special flavor that requires its own field guide? What's the fucking difference between the example I gave you and this DVD?

All I know is that yes I find women attractive I love them and have no shame in it whatsoever. They bring joy into my life. Right now it's practically free game. I'll date Asian, black, white, Latina, Indian girls, etc etc. I dont care as long as the woman is beautiful and has a good heart. As for the rest of the negativity about IR well I cant change that. So here I am letting the shit about 'Oh we should save the twinkies?' go, opening up my dating options to extend my love to women of all colors. You really are confused about the deal about dating.


Neuter every person involved in this situation and look at it again - what's wrong with the picture?? And gee, chasing white chicks like a superstar...mmk.


Good for you!

Sorry if you got butthurt because of my lack of morals. I don't focus on that too much unless it's a person I care about.


And where the hell do you pull a number like that out of your ass and suddenly have all these women you're speaking on behalf of in agreement with you?


/Statistics/ and /projected numbers of APAs living in America./ Should I have to help you google it?

And well as far as the speaking for AFs, I am not. I'm speaking for myself. Only.

I think this straight up fucked up on your part that you are saying this. You are implying that I must be some sort of sexist sellout by your misleading questions and statements, ranting and raving, and playing the armchair ultra feminist card. Because you got a problem with how men like me have this fascination with women which is normal because we are men and well I am a man?

OK maybe unless the man is braindead.

Please, GTFO, of here with this bullshit, I ABHOR Asian female and Asian male stereotypes. That's because that is basically racism in a way that is too screwed up to even solve at this point. It works even against me as an APA.


Just as much as I hate black male stereotypes and about Mexicans? "WTF is this the new Jim Crow era or something?" I gotta ask myself.

You are speaking about these issues under the guise of armchair feminist type arguements? On a MENS forum?

What did many choose to do? Remember the psychological term 'learned helplessness?' Well many chose to adhere to the status quo so as not to create rifts. Anyway let's save that for another thread.

Yeah, so hey some AMs exploit their model minority image just like AFs do for sex. this is why I call AMs the new sugar daddies.

So I am at this point don't see why I need to go all apeshit like u are doing over IR or sexism issues. It's like a total waste of my time emotional energy and mental space. Know why?

I'm just going to live my life, find success, find that dream girl, and forget all of this nonsense. And I know how to do it and applying it towards what I always wanted. Yes I have a GF right now. I'm mixed Asian. She's black. You want to shift this into a racial discussion? Were already there. Bring it.

Does that answer your question?

You do a horrible job of playing mind games on the net.

Edit: Oh you're at odds with Fighting 44s now. Oh brother. Hey their discussions on the PUA movement is like the best discussions I have ever heard.

Seriously some of you ppl are completely lost.

[kusojiji]

It's like a total waste of my time emotional energy and mental space. Know why?

I'm just going to live my life, find success, find that dream girl, and forget all of this nonsense.



"Dream" is the right word. Like know like what I like mean?

[Sunflare]

"Dream" is the right word. Like know like what I like mean?

Yeah wet dreams. Is that what u mean? Why? You end up with soiled and stiff shorts every other morning you wake up? Do tell. That's interesting.

Wow. Just, wow.



Since you have obvious problems with reading and comprehension, I'll take time, just this once, to walk you through your idiocy.

Again, here's the quote you picked:



Do you notice that there are THREE adjectives in that list? What are they? Since you obviously missed them, they are "Beautiful," "Exotic," and "Elusive." Did you get that? One, two, three. Are there three other things in that snippet that could possibly be confusing you?

Now the next sentence is "but one of those three is about to change." Those three what? Where in that excerpt are there three of anything? Are there three blind mice? Three idiot mysogenists? Three people who can't read and comprehend basic concepts? No, there are three adjectives. Again, the three are "Beautiful," "Exotic," and "Elusive." I know I'm repeating myself, but somehow you've screwed the pooch on this very easy passive repeatedly.

Now, you in your bizarre version of reality can somehow read this and think:

I'm sorry, did you read the same passage as everyone else? Again,



Do you see "the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women" as one three items listed? Actually, do you see "the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women" ANYWHERE in the list? No? Do you actually comprehend the words that are actually written or do you simply apply whatever meaning you extrude from random body orifices?

Read it and try again.



What does "one of those three" refer to? What three things appear in that passage? Any first grader could tell you, "Beautiful," "Exotic," and "Elusive." Now, given that this video is marketed towards guys trying to get Asian women, take a wild ass guess which one of those three adjectives the video is trying to change.

And, bonus points, which one of remaining two adjectives fits your:




Seriously, if you attempt to pretend that you are actually more knowledgeable about a subject that someone else, don't force them to teach you how to read first.

Look I don't need a grammar lesson, I am not here to teach nobody; it's like a equivalent of bashing my head on the floor; and what you are saying over the DVD is beyond the point. I'll say it again, since I nearly went blind just reading your post, this DVD can help socially stunted AMs get better at dating AFs. Simple. You're the one among others creating all this drama over a stupid ass DVD.

You sound soooooo stuck up and conceited. I feel like I'm talking to a white dude with problems with other minorities. Do you even care about other AMs who are not as successful in all areas as you are? Assuming you are?


Seriously, if you attempt to pretend that you are actually more knowledgeable about a subject that someone else, don't force them to teach you how to read first.[

Yeah speak for yourself. That's exactly how YOU act. Hypocrite.

[applehead]

It might be interesting to talk about, but is it really a "need to know" kind of thing that would make much of a difference? Would you say it is more important to you, a girl, how how a guy is now, and how/what he likely will be?

well, i was just thinking about how i would
react if i found out that someone i was dating
took these kinds of classes and i couldn't
find a concrete answer.
i guess if i'm in love; it wouldn't matter.
i don't know!

but regarding your second question; i think my answer
would depend on how i would like the relationship to progress.
if i wanted to have a future with him then i think both would matter.
but if i didn't then i suppose that the kind of person he might
be in the future wouldn't really matter.
although, i don't really date just to date.
so. okay. then both.
i think most women would consider both.

so you wouldn't share the fact that you took a class like this?

[snailpoo]

Yeah speak for yourself. that's exactly how YOU act. Hypocrite.

No, Sunflare. People are not equally competent in every single thing. I'm sure there are certain areas in which you are better than me, but obviously reading and comprehension isn't one of them. If you disagree, feel free to go back to the excerpt YOU pasted and defend your reading of it. It's only fifteen words long, and the sentence structure is simple enough for grade school remedial English.

Just note that until you can, you're missing the point as to why any non-misogynist or any APA who is concerned about negative stereotypes would take offense to that DVD, but feel free to continue in your willful ignorance.

[applehead]

No, Sunflare. People are not equally competent in every single thing. I'm sure there are certain areas in which you are better than me, but obviously reading and comprehension isn't one of them.

so, nyc public school system.
nay or yay?
hahahaha

[Sunflare]

No, Sunflare. People are not equally competent in every single thing. I'm sure there are certain areas in which you are better than me, but obviously reading and comprehension isn't one of them.

Wrong. You as usual are basing your reasoning on so called source material as in every thread as you come up to your own conclusions of things that is ridiculously white worshiper ultra right wing and shoving your POV down the throats of others. All you come here for is to debate just as some just come here to flame.

Stop walking around all puffed up like you're all of that because you have all of this 'intellect' and impose on others what's right and what's wrong.


Just note that until you can, you're missing the point as to why any non-misogynist or any APA who is concerned about negative stereotypes would take offense to that DVD, but feel free to continue in your willful ignorance.

Look who's ignorant here? Happy like flies on shit once your rich and the fuck with the poor working class of APAs where much of the socially stunted APAs come from.

so, nyc public school system.
nay or yay?
hahahaha

Again. Ignorant.

"Dream" is the right word. Like know like what I like mean?

Seriously do you ever have anything intelligent to say?

[snailpoo]

Wrong. You as usual are basing your reasoning on so called source material as in every thread as you come up to your own conclusions of things that is ridiculously white worshiper ultra right wing and shoving your POV down the throats of others. All you come here for is to debate just as some just come here to flame.

Stop walking around all puffed up like you're all of that because you have all of this 'intellect' and impose on others what's right and what's wrong.

This isn't a right or wrong that I'm trying to impose or even a point of view. This is 1st grade reading and comprehension --adjectives, nouns, and, the especially tricky part, pronoun references.

I'm really sorry if that arises to the level of "intellect" for you.


And speaking of reading and comprehension:

Look who's ignorant here? Happy like flies on shit once your rich and the fuck with the poor working class of APAs where much of the socially stunted APAs come from.

I've done my community service for one night. Go find someone else to teach you to read the following:

Might there not be a middle ground? Obviously nothing further needs to be said about the DVD, but ...

Maybe some guys need an older brother or sister or cousin or friend who was otherwise missing during their formative years. Maybe some guys needed that someone to get them out of their shell. I think if you ask any normally adjusted guy, you'll probably find at least one person who dragged them to that first bar, or who made a great wingman (wingwomen even better), or sat them down and gave them decent advice. Unfortunately, some guys just never had even one person pull them aside for that talk.

I have no idea what's taught in those courses and I have no psychology background to evaluate it even if I did, but there's got to be something out there to fill in for that missing older brother figure for those guys who need one.





so, nyc public school system.
nay or yay?
hahahaha

Please don't insult NYC public schools.

[Sunflare]

Look I am not going to lose sleep over this. Go on with your bickering about the PUA movement and a stupid ass DVD. Meanwhile I'll just continue dealing with my real life instead of dealing with internet addicts who really don't have a clue.

[snailpoo]

Look I am not going to lose sleep over this. Go on with your bickering about the PUA movement and a stupid ass DVD. Meanwhile I'll just continue dealing with my real life instead of dealing with internet addicts who really don't have a clue.

Said the poster with three thousand four hundred posts in... how long?

[monkeygone2]

I'll just continue dealing with my real life instead of dealing with internet addicts who really don't have a clue.

that's post # 3,422 in 17 months.

[Sunflare]

Well regardless ppl who don't have a damn clue.

I swear some of you are just so completely brainwashed and lost. I mean like hopeless. Meanwhile I am continuing to construct and build my life and work on myself the way I want it so I can be happy instead of wasting mt time arguing with disgruntled ppl on the net on Asian identity issues or talk about politicking not realizing that you ppl have no control over what is going on in politics. Or wack ass jokes. Or armchair ultra feminists doinmg so trying to appease women ecpeting gratification and approval of some kind in return like pets or something

Amazing. Here we have Asian male PUAs getting ass AND HELPING OTHERS TO DO THE SAME and this is the response? Am I really speaking to men here?

I need to GTFO of here before I become brainwashed like you all.

Words don't mean shit because action speak louder then words. You guys think this is a joke. What are YOU doing for yourselves? I know what I'm going to do right now --- cup my girl in my bed in the spoon position and fall into a slumber as I forget you all as I continue to focus on self improvement and constructing my life instead of arguing and bitching on the net over a post by Asian Playboy.

Yeah exactly, you decide. Continue to be a asexual bunch of losers, or be real APA men with dating choices, meeting up with wonderful women? That's pretty much it in nutshell. What the hell does sexism has to do with it? Or racism for that matter? It's about getting romance, NOT sexism, NOT racism. And I'm the stupid one here?

I'm sure there will be much difficulty answering this question.

[monkeygone2]

I know what I'm going to do right now --- cup my girl in my bed in the spoon position and fall into a slumber

forgot to ask...
friday, you said you were logging off this "effeminate forum" because you were going out to find romance. but the day before, you said you had a girlfriend?

::shrugs::

[snailpoo]

And yet you still post. Please, follow your own advice and take this into the real world. Order that DVD and let your girl know you ordered it.


And I'm the stupid one here?

I'm sure there will be much difficulty answering this question.

:wink:

[Sunflare]

forgot to ask...
friday, you said you were logging off this "effeminate forum" because you were going out to find romance. but the day before, you said you had a girlfriend?

::shrugs::

No. I said that in GENERAL , generally speaking, I am out looking for romance all the time instead of sitting around doing NOTHING.

Can I go now?

And yet you still post. Please, follow your own advice and take this into the real world. Order that DVD and let your girl know you ordered it.

You must swear I'm an idiot. That was like the stupidest advice I ever heard. Like I said, TOTALLY LOST.

[monkeygone2]

No. I said that in GENERAL , generally speaking, I am out looking for romance all the time instead of sitting around doing NOTHING.

Can I go now?

i don't think you want to.

[tripostrophe]

All I know is that yes I find women attractive I love them and have no shame in it whatsoever. They bring joy into my life. Right now it's practically free game. I'll date Asian, black, white, Latina, Indian girls, etc etc. I dont care as long as the woman is beautiful and has a good heart. As for the rest of the negativity about IR well I cant change that. So here I am letting the shit about 'Oh we should save the twinkies?' go, opening up my dating options to extend my love to women of all colors. You really are confused about the deal about dating.

Good for you!

Sorry if you got butthurt because of my lack of morals. I don't focus on that too much unless it's a person I care about.

/Statistics/ and /projected numbers of APAs living in America./ Should I have to help you google it?

And well as far as the speaking for AFs, I am not. I'm speaking for myself. Only.

I think this straight up fucked up on your part that you are saying this. You are implying that I must be some sort of sexist sellout by your misleading questions and statements, ranting and raving, and playing the armchair ultra feminist card. Because you got a problem with how men like me have this fascination with women which is normal because we are men and well I am a man?

OK maybe unless the man is braindead.

Please, GTFO, of here with this bullshit, I ABHOR Asian female and Asian male stereotypes. That's because that is basically racism in a way that is too screwed up to even solve at this point. It works even against me as an APA.


Just as much as I hate black male stereotypes and about Mexicans? "WTF is this the new Jim Crow era or something?" I gotta ask myself.

You are speaking about these issues under the guise of armchair feminist type arguements? On a MENS forum?

What did many choose to do? Remember the psychological term 'learned helplessness?' Well many chose to adhere to the status quo so as not to create rifts. Anyway let's save that for another thread.

Yeah, so hey some AMs exploit their model minority image just like AFs do for sex. this is why I call AMs the new sugar daddies.

So I am at this point don't see why I need to go all apeshit like u are doing over IR or sexism issues. It's like a total waste of my time emotional energy and mental space. Know why?

I'm just going to live my life, find success, find that dream girl, and forget all of this nonsense. And I know how to do it and applying it towards what I always wanted. Yes I have a GF right now. I'm mixed Asian. She's black. You want to shift this into a racial discussion? Were already there. Bring it.

Does that answer your question?

You do a horrible job of playing mind games on the net.

Edit: Oh you're at odds with Fighting 44s now. Oh brother. Hey their discussions on the PUA movement is like the best discussions I have ever heard.

Seriously some of you ppl are completely lost.

Jesus, you really don't see anything you don't want to, do you? Yes actually, that would be useful information regardless. And shit, I don't know what to make of your statement on 'morals.' Why you on yellowworld then?

Let me explain: when you ask questions like: "Do they represent the views of the 100,000+ Asian American women in this country? Who actually are pleased with the PUA movement?", it might comes off as speaking for others. And what. the. hell. When the fuck did I bring up anything about your race, your girlfriend, or start playing mind games with you?

But you know what, point taken from earlier. You're not the one selling this shit in the first place. And admittedly, I already had a bad taste in my mouth from your history here, and it's clear that you don't need more stress on your mind. But christ man, take a few days off from here, PM a mod or member whom you haven't gotten into shit with, and talk it out with them. There's a reason most people who post here loathe things like that DVD, and I don't think you have to fully agree with women who object to the methods jerry is using in order to understand that many of them find it sexist and demeaning; sometimes you just gotta learn to trust things like that. someone else here is dropping major clues about why most women don't like the program. That's something that can be discussed further, but seriously - the more you post, the more I come to hate you. Not to the point where you aint shit anymore, but definitely not someone I interact with.

I'll be honest with you here: I'm not what any of these women would consider feminist once they got to know me - I'm still way off the mark. But I know bullshit when I see it, and have spent enough time around women whom I respect to understand that if I want our men to be empowered, it's gotta be alongside our women - not at their expense. And you gotta learn to listen to them, at the very least - cuz obviously we miss a lot of bullshit as men who don't have to deal with the crap they do. So yeah. I've probably been talking my head off on this thread for long enough anyways. But at least this wasn't the women's forum.

Goodbye sunflare.

[snailpoo]

You must swear I'm an idiot. That was like the stupidest advice I ever heard. Like I said, TOTALLY LOST.

You say that, and you still claim not to see the problem with the DVD? :biggrin:

In fact, let her read:

No. I said that in GENERAL , generally speaking, I am out looking for romance all the time instead of sitting around doing NOTHING.

It's rather amusing how you belittle the opinions of applehead and eos here as ultra-feminists, but would hide what you write from your girl.

[kusojiji]

I need to GTFO of here

Yes, you really do. I'm sorry, I mean 'you like really like really do.'


I know what I'm going to do right now --- cup my girl in my bed in the spoon position and fall into a slumber


Sounds like you need another DVD.

[cloudzero]

Like really? Like OMG! You should totally like do that! :rolleyes:

dude, he threatened to leave yw like 4 times. you think he would go off this thread after 3 threats? *hint*


although, i don't really date just to date.


when you go over a certain number of people in your lifetime, you can no longer make this statement

but would hide what you write from your girl.

you actually believe he has a girl? you are smarter than this
any girl would be creeped out to have her feet stared at every 5 seconds
not to mention being APPRECIATED to death

[Sunflare]

you actually believe he has a girl? you are smarter than this
any girl would be creeped out to have her feet stared at every 5 seconds
not to mention being APPRECIATED to death


Hey cloudzero you pulled this same game with deez nuts, remember? Calling him a liar over his very active dating life before he was to have a child and left all of you behind because what you and others post here is like total BS. Yes I have a GF. Dated her since the beginning of this year. I was dating a Asian girl last year but it flaked, ended up with a black girl from upstate. What do you want, proof? I have nothing to prove to you.

This all about an embittered AMs and jealousy. Stop complaining, accusing others, and work on urself so you can at least find some happiness in your life. At least I'm trying so fucking hard to leave that mindset because that kind of thinking screws up your mind and sure it does'nt make you any more attractive to women. No wonder you don't have any sort of dating life your damn self.

Put your money where your mouth is.


It's rather amusing how you belittle the opinions of applehead and eos here as ultra-feminists, but would hide what you write from your girl.

I never bothered responding to their posts in this thread. I didn't challenge their views in this discussion. I never uttered a single word to them.

You know I remember kimpossible once warning me not to let anyone I date know that I am posting on a militant forum in a chat over PMs about registering on AZNLover.com for kicks. I'm following her advice.

[snailpoo]

I never bothered responding to their posts in this thread. I didn't challenge their views in this discussion. I never uttered a single word to them.



Ummm...

Only two women contributed to this thread. Do they represent the views of the 100,000+ Asian American women in this country? Who actually are pleased with the PUA movement? I'm not talking about the stupid internet, I'm talking about actual people.

Why? I like to do something about things instead of just talking until I'm blue in the face appeasing the ultra feminists on the board.

so, nyc public school system.
nay or yay?
hahahaha
Again. Ignorant.


Do you just enjoy being wrong or is this reading and comprehension thing really a serious problem for you?

you actually believe he has a girl? you are smarter than this
any girl would be creeped out to have her feet stared at every 5 seconds
not to mention being APPRECIATED to death

It doesn't matter if his girl is real or not. It's just funny that he knows he's wrong and couldn't tell her anything about the crap hes written in this thread.

Though, you're right in that it would be funnier if she was imaginary.

[Sunflare]

Ummm...







Do you just enjoy being wrong or is this reading and comprehension thing really a serious problem for you?



It doesn't matter if his girl is real or not. It's just funny that he knows he's wrong and couldn't tell her anything about the crap hes written in this thread.

Though, you're right in that it would be funnier if she was imaginary.

Applehead? Call that constructive criticism. I totally forgot she posted about something indirect in asccord to one of your insulting statements. Be more creative at least, the bull about the crayons was something she used as a personal attack in another thread. Get your facts straight. Opps oh well, I should have absorbed that because that was off topic. But besides that I'm not shoving my POV down her throat commenting to every single post she makes. Im just pretty much trying to see where she's coming from, and well, I don't agree with it. But live and let live right? She's entitled to her opinions and beliefs. So give it a break, that is so ridiculously petty snailpoo it's pathetic.

You got some serious issues snailpoo, to the point its shocking. Yeah conforming to the status quo and acting like a straight up snot, saving face. Its about time somebody give you the wake up call. It's just sad I have to be the one to challenge you and do it.

And snailpoo you are insulting me over my intelligence? Ummmm . . . you're just pissed because I don't agree with you. Well based on whatever you was posting which was way the heck off topic to begin with because this thread is not about my GF it is not about our agruement over the Cleopatra controversy like that has anything to do with the discussion here, or about proving points with so calledv source material when all you have to do is open up your eyes and take the plugs out of your ears and listen, it's about Asian Playboy and his ventures to help Asian males get the right perspective on dating and women. Obviously the posters here, save for a few, don't have a clue about what it means to strive to be openminded and respect the POVs of others, instead to the contrary, being totally fucked up about it.

Anyway you are married and successful. Great. Meanwhile I am enjoying the love and friendship of a girl that does understand me. Anyway that is not the point, lets stay on topic.

The problem with many AMs is that erroneous view that Asian women being automatically sellouts even if they do date Asians along with men of other races and it is fucking up their dating lives so bad that its hopeless. All full of uncontrollable anger and miserable. Either that or yeah, their brainwashed to think that racism doesn't exist. In denial. Accepting the Asian male stereotypes submissively to save face. How sad. So misguided as they are they don't realize that even as the circumstances are undeniably real and out of their control, they can still change their own lives around and still get what they desire with guidance and hard efforts on their part. It's not impossible, just get off your lazy behinds and do what you got to do.

Once upon a time I was like this, acting like a angry militant Asian man, but now I am realizing that it is truly not worth it to worry about something I can't control. I made up my mind to forget the issue about IR, sexism, or whatever because it is not healthy for my mind or anybody's mind. Its self defeating. And furthermore, as much as I can be really brutally honest about things because I come straight to the point and not play mind games with other posters, I also am now trying hard to understand the mentality of a woman and what makes them click. With my current GF I am learning alot. What is generally their POVs and beliefs on a variety of matters. Much better then one isolating himself all angry about women.

I really don't want to be bothered with the sexism nonsense, but since you guys keep on bring up this sexism card ( and even the more so then even the ladies here for the most part ) I'm now wasting my time here trying to explain to you how I really feel about the subject. I must have explained myself a million times but you are too ignorant to see it.

Cloudzero, well he's jealous of other AMs or WMs or BMs who are having healthy sex lives. Again I saw the flame between him and deez nuts because he's saying he was lying about his sex life. OH please!! He was a true PUA hitting on girls left and right. He should be commended for not letting stereotypes, racism or shortcomings stop him from enjoying a healthy sex life. Shit, I'm proud of him.

Well anyway if I was in cloudzero's shoes I would try to let the anger against women go and try to adjust my thinking, and furthermore, just work hard to make myself more attractive not just by looks but in personality. yes, I have a long way tom go but at least I'm trying unlike some people.

Cloudzero, all worried about Asian women doing the lookaway because your Asian. Even as I don't usually have this problem, I even start random conversations with ladies I don't even know, just did it a day ago, and she was very receptive and gave me her business card. Of course I told her though I am already dating. Yes she is Asian. She did'nt pull a lookaway as cloudzero was so incredibly disturbed about. Hey I get it too sometimes with this lookaway nonsense but do you think I care about it? That's her problem if she wants to behave like that. All the best to her in your life. Meanwhile I got better things to do instead of being so preoccupied with that.

I'm pretty sure the majority of Asian ladies in real life are kind and openminded. Not embittered, racist and rude like many of the ladies here with a exception of two female moderators, one who split from this forum very recently because of the bullshit I believe, and another one who is incredibly intelligent and certainly totally contrary to the usual image of Asian ladies as she is not submissive, a critical thinker, who is not brainwashed with what goes on on the internet or TV. The two moderators, you know who I am talking about here.

Tripostrophe, well his points are totally contrary to mine but at least he does come up with some logical points that makes sense, but his problem is that he gets completely carried away sometimes when ppl don't agree with him as demonstrated here. And please get over the asiaphile mental trap. What? Do they really make that much an impact on your life? Why worry about it? I don't know what your sexual orientation is but all I'm saying is that you can still be happy instead of raging on the net over something that is inconsequential and self defeating. If you are so angry about it, then why don't you do something about it? By working on your own life and go for yours. Forget the negativity.

Kusojiji, well he never comes straight with something logical, instead his prime aim is to attack me everywhere I go. Talk about being emo.

buttermilkwise, aside from noname, Dimeron and Asian Playboy seems to be the most openminded and truthful persons about this whole subject, and it is parallel to mine. That's why I'm pretty convinced that the bootcamps work.

For those who are not participating here in this thread and don't want to be bothered sifting through the clutter, the problem is that these ppl are mislabeling me as a sexist and even a racist when I am not.



This is because you ppl have a grudge against me over something that is idiotic, something personal that well I don't care about anymore. I don't agree with your reasoning and that's it. End of story.

I hope it does not happen, but god forbid, if my relationship with my current GF fails and I end up single again, then yeah, I think I will sign up for the bootcamp. I'm convinced that it will help me as it did with a pal that I know when he did it and I would tell others the same. It's sure as hell better then doing nothing about it and staying miserable in your singleness.And snailpoo you are insulting me over my intelligence? Ummmm . . . you're just pissed because I don't agree with you. Well based on whatever you was posting which was way the heck off topic to begin with because this thread is not about my GF it is not about our arguement over Cleopatra, or source material, it's about Asian Playboy and his ventures to help Asian males get the right perspective on dating and women. Obviously the posters here, save for a few, don't have a clue about what it means to strive to be openminded and respect the POVs of others, instead to the contrary, being totally fucked up about it.

Oh let me say one more thing. Just because everybody here on an internet forum is all united in agreement over an opinion that is contrary to mine, does NOT mean others in all of Asian America feels the same way.

Nor does it gives you the go ahead to start trolling just because somebody doesn't agree with you.

[noname]

Cloudzero, all worried about Asian women doing the lookaway because your Asian. Even as I don't usually have this problem, I even start random conversations with ladies I don't even know, just did it a day ago, and she was very receptive and gave me her business card. Of course I told her though I am already dating. Yes she is Asian. She did'nt pull a lookaway as cloudzero was so incredibly disturbed about. Hey I get it too sometimes with this lookaway nonsense but do you think I care about it? That's her problem if she wants to behave like that. All the best to her in your life. Meanwhile I got better things to do instead of being so preoccupied with that.


Looking away might actually be a sign of attraction.
Guys, the next times that happens (at least in social situations), go approach her.
I can't guarantee any particular result (and you shouldn't be concerned with the outcome), but it might be interesting to see what happens.

[Sunflare]

Looking away might actually be a sign of attraction.
Guys, the next times that happens (at least in social situations), go approach her.
I can't guarantee any particular result (and you shouldn't be concerned with the outcome), but it might be interesting to see what happens.

Pardon me, I was just ranting because of the unbelievable responses to this thread.

But seriously, yeah true, my dad used to tell me that too. And like yourself, he's right.

What cloudzero was meaning by the lookaway phenomonon, according to his theory, is that Asian women does the lookaway because he thinks that Asian ladies have a problem with him because he was Asian. Myself I don't take it too seriously at all but LOL now that you mentioned it . . .

I tried to tell him in a blog he created and another thread he posted here that he might be experiencing that because they just *might* find him attractive too but he did'nt think so at the time.

[buttermilkwise]

Good post buttermilkwise. That pretty much in summary explains every aspect of this topic for discussion and why we are seeing the negative reaction from practically everybody here. I really don't think there is nothing else that really needs to be discussed.

Thx bro, I agree with some of the stuff you say, you shouldn't waste time arguing for the DVD and engaging in wordplay. It is difficult to defend using the same mental frame of reference that some people here are stuck in, and might have been made without much foresight as to how certain people would react to it.

Even at 60$ the DVD I doubt is going to make as much of a return on it's own, than helping to drawing the inclusion of non-asians in the curriculum where the real bank is. Really when you think about it, the ABC's program is geared towards interracial dating between Asian men and White females, how is that going to fly with your typical white male? Having a video like this around shows that they are inclusive of people of other races and not exclusive.

So all this talk of them selling out is nonsense, because you can say they are selling out the race but you can also say they are affirming the principle of racial tolerance. It can go either way depending upon their actions, so it's like being stuck in a rock and a hard place.

[noname]

so you wouldn't share the fact that you took a class like this?

If it came up in conversation, sure, why not?

[snailpoo]

Applehead? Call that constructive criticism. I totally forgot she posted about something indirect in asccord to one of your insulting statements. Be more creative at least, the bull about the crayons was something she used as a personal attack in another thread. Get your facts straight. Opps oh well, I should have absorbed that because that was off topic. But besides that I'm not shoving my POV down her throat commenting to every single post she makes. Im just pretty much trying to see where she's coming from, and well, I don't agree with it. But live and let live right? She's entitled to her opinions and beliefs. So give it a break, that is so ridiculously petty snailpoo it's pathetic.

*Yawn* Petty? Pathetic? It is amusing that you're perfectly willing to call applehead ignorant and excuse your own behavior, but when I tell you exactly where you misread a BBC article or a DVD description, you get your panties in a bunch.

I borrowed the crayons and construction paper bit because I thought it rather apt. You really do suck at reading and comprehension, something most people start to master as they give up crayons and construction paper. Let's set aside your obvious mistake with the DVD for a second and look at your mindlessly long mental vomit of a post. Did you even stop and realize that I didn't post a single negative thing about what Asian Playboy is doing? Do you still not realize how much your failure to actually comprehend what you're reading makes you look like an raving lunatic?

But please continue ranting about whatever asinine things pop into your head. You're perfectly entitled to think whatever it is you think, just as the rest of us are entitled to think whatever it is we think about you.

[Banana]

I don't see it as that big of an issue; just don't market it as activism.

If there wasn't a need, the business model would die out. This is why I laugh when people don't think that the disparity is a big problem. Even if there wasn't, there are many people who do and "Asian Playboy" is able to capitalize on that fear.

Since you haven't done anything to address that fear, it's allowed to florish. He's merely exploiting it.

In fact, I think that Asian Playboy is actually more in tune with what's actually happening realistically.

[snailpoo]

I don't see it as that big of an issue; just don't market it as activism.

If there wasn't a need, the business model would die out. This is why I laugh when people don't think that the disparity is a big problem. Even if there wasn't, there are many people who do and "Asian Playboy" is able to capitalize on that fear.

Since you haven't done anything to address that fear, it's allowed to florish.

There's an issue with the DVD. There's a huge difference between what Asian Playboy markets as helping guys build confidence and what the DVD markets as taking "Elusive" out of "Beautiful, Exotic, Elusive Asian women." One markets itself as trying to break a negative stereotype, the other sells a negative stereotype. Judging from what they've posted previously, applehead and eos will probably disagree with me to say that both enforce negative stereotypes, but as I have no personal knowledge of what APB teaches, I can't disagree or agree with the content.


The other problem with the problem is that its completely built upon perception: perception of the problem, perception of the severity of the problem, perception of AMs, and perceptions by AMs., and unfortunately, fear is self actualizing and self perpetuating, and fear exaggerates.

Proof? Look at cloudzero's response to your article:

you damn masochist, WMAF = 174k, AMAF = 2493k

And if there are 489k more AFs over the age of 18 than AMs over the age of 18 in the US according to the 2006 Census? (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/IPTable?_bm=y&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201PR&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201T&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201TPR&-geo_id=01000US&-reg=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201:012;ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0 201PR:012;ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201T:012;ACS_2006_EST _G00_S0201TPR:012&-ds_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-format=)

According to the Yahoo chart that Cloudzero is reading from, there are 3,098k married AFs. According to the Census, there are 5,339,792 AFs over the age of 18 in the US, which means that 58% of all AFs are married.

From the same sources, there are 2686k married AMs out of a total of 4,850,650 AMs over the age of 18, for a marriage rate of 55.4%.

Now I repeat these numbers for two reasons. One, and most obviously, yeah, you're going to see a lot more AFs married to other races because there are a lot more AFs. Two, the discrepency in the two marriage rates can be explained by 1. males tend to get married at a later age than females, 2. males have lower marriage rate than females, or 3. all that negative stereotpying does have a negative effect on marriage rates.

I'm not saying there isn't a discrepency, and I'm certainly not saying that there isn't any negative stereotypes or racism. However, is the problem really as bad as the internet makes it seem?

You'll have to excuse my personal bias in that I don't give a rats ass who dates whom, but those Yahoo numbers look completely different when I also look at the Census numbers.

[buttermilkwise]

If there wasn't a need, the business model would die out. This is why I laugh when people don't think that the disparity is a big problem. Even if there wasn't, there are many people who do and "Asian Playboy" is able to capitalize on that fear.

I don't think that describes anyone in the thread.

[j&j2]

Once again, I see the whole PUA movement thing (specifically, the PUA movement geared to AMs) being a hot topic on an Asian forum.

Much of what has been discussed here is not that diff. than what has already been discussed previously (aside from the additional topic of the DVD) on other Asian forums (APB sure makes his rounds).

For me, the whole PUA thing is "meh."

Guys taking these "bootcamps" should really have learned to socialize and date during their formative years in Jr. High, HS and college - but they didn't (or they have the additional factor of a mental block due to stereotypes, etc.).

The whole idea of teaching guys how to mack on women and basically get laid is a bit off-putting to me, but many of the underlying strategies/procedures that are taught have merit.

I guess I would have less of a problem if the courses were titled "how to make engaging conversation" or "how to approach new people/strangers and be confidant in doing so" - but I doubt such benign descriptions would attract much business.

And let's get real, the majority of guys want to get laid or just want to get laid (us romantics are in a clear minority) and many of the guys who end up taking these classes, if they had been socializing/dating on their own, would likely have been doing so just for the sex until they were ready to settle down anyways.

So basically, while I don't particularly care for the basic premise of what these PUA bootcamps stand for, they do teach the "social retards" the basics of socialization, including personal dynamics and place these guys in the "field" so they gain some experience (something they should have done during their formative years) and hopefully some confidence - so I guess it's not all bad.

Now having said that, the DVD is BS.

First off, it's simply sad that a video exists teaching Asian men how to date Asian women.

2nd, characterizing AFs as "beautiful, exotic and elusive" is what I would expect from guys w/ an asian fetish, not anyone interested in improving the asian-am community.

3rd, all this how to pick up/date [insert race] women how to do books, manuals, dvds, etc. is pure BS. There really is no difference on picking up women based on race - women from all races/backgrounds generally are attracted to the same type of men.

4th - if the DVD is more about how to pick up "FOBs" then it is doubly BS.

5th - using the term "beautiful" is misleading. Most AFs are not beautiful, only a small % are (just as women or men of any other race/background). The fact that the word "beautiful" is used as well as "exotic" and "elusive" makes it seem that this DVD is being advertised more so to non-AMs than AMs (why would AFs be exotic or elusive to AMs?).



In other words, to us, to us, we never refer to Asian women as "race traitors" or "sellout whores" or "sluts" because WE DON'T CARE. Neither are there "asiaphiles" because WE DON'T CARE.

They are neither the problem, nor the solution. Only WE (in this case, AMs) are capable of doing something to both rectify the situation and improve upon it.

We don't blame society and we don't blame others. It's up to each individual man to make a difference in his own life.

While it is true that it is up to an individual guy to improve his own circumstances/condition - society and how others view them is what got them to need your services in the first place.

If one truly wants to help out the Asian-Am community, doing away w/ the conditions which bring these AMs to your classes should be of prime importance.

After all, there's nothing benefiting the Asian-Am community if, instead of having one group of "sell-outs" (not saying all or even a majority of AFs are), we have two (and indeed, a growing no. of AMs have negative/derogatory views towards AFs and put WFs on a pedestal).

Having parity in IR dating is not the goal or what we should focus on - rather it is ensuring that young Asian-Ams don't grow up w/ a whacked out perception of themselves, fellow Asians of the opposite gender and the Asian identity as a whole.


People like what they like and (more importantly IMO) like who they like. "Attraction is not a choice" is a saying I've heard.

Not true - attraction is largely influenced by our environment - the media, our peers, etc.

Otherwise, we should be seeing much more variety in the dating choices of AFs and AMs - but we don't.

AFs and AMs, when they date/marry non-Asians overwhelmingly date/marry whites.

Talk all you want about 8asians and fighting 44s endorsing this shit (btw, is it just me or is f44s pretty male-dominated over there too? and where the fuck is there a banner on reappropriate for this shit?)

There was a similar debate on F44s and the breakdown was pretty much 40% for, 40% against, w/ the rest being in the middle.

you damn masochist, WMAF = 174k, AMAF = 2493k

Uhh, make that WMAF = 530k

The 174k figure is for AMWF.

Also, one can't just look at the 2,493k figure for AMAF since the majority of those are 1st gen.

When we look at 2nd gen+, there are just about as many AFs marrying WMs as AMs.

Now, the 3:1 disparity is not the right figure to focus on, since about a third of that disparity can be attributed to war, mail-order, etc. brides.

The disparity in the 2nd gen+ is about 2:1 (a little less nowadays).


There's an issue with the DVD. There's a huge difference between what Asian Playboy markets as helping guys build confidence and what the DVD markets as taking "Elusive" out of "Beautiful, Exotic, Elusive Asian women." One markets itself as trying to break a negative stereotype, the other sells a negative stereotype. Judging from what they've posted previously, applehead and eos will probably disagree with me to say that both enforce negative stereotypes, but as I have no personal knowledge of what APB teaches, I can't disagree or agree with the content.

The other problem with the problem is that its completely built upon perception: perception of the problem, perception of the severity of the problem, perception of AMs, and perceptions by AMs., and unfortunately, fear is self actualizing and self perpetuating, and fear exaggerates.

Proof? Look at cloudzero's response to your article:

And if there are 489k more AFs over the age of 18 than AMs over the age of 18 in the US according to the

According to the Yahoo chart that Cloudzero is reading from, there are 3,098k married AFs. According to the Census, there are 5,339,792 AFs over the age of 18 in the US, which means that 58% of all AFs are married.

From the same sources, there are 2686k married AMs out of a total of 4,850,650 AMs over the age of 18, for a marriage rate of 55.4%.

Now I repeat these numbers for two reasons. One, and most obviously, yeah, you're going to see a lot more AFs married to other races because there are a lot more AFs. Two, the discrepency in the two marriage rates can be explained by 1. males tend to get married at a later age than females, 2. males have lower marriage rate than females, or 3. all that negative stereotpying does have a negative effect on marriage rates.

I'm not saying there isn't a discrepency, and I'm certainly not saying that there isn't any negative stereotypes or racism. However, is the problem really as bad as the internet makes it seem?

Once again SP spews the SAME, MISLEADING information (despite the fact that I have corrected him numerous times; is he really in any position to lecture about reading comprehension).

Yes - there are significantly more AFs than AMs, but as I have stated many times (and yet, SP still can't grasp it), they are pretty much all older 1st gen females (basically war brides, mail order brides or AFs who immigrated here alone or w/ a husband who passed away) - which is why I've stated repeatedly that one shouldn't focus on the 3:1 disparity rate since it is a bit misleading.

W/ regard to 2nd gen+ Asian-Ams, there are slightly more AMs than AFs in the prime marrying age groups and yet, there is almost a 2:1 disparity rate.

I also find it funny that SP is so effusive in his stance against the stereotyping of AFs (as we all should be), since he has stated that the stereotyping of AMs isn't much of a problem and that most people aren't aware of them.



If there wasn't a need, the business model would die out. This is why I laugh when people don't think that the disparity is a big problem. Even if there wasn't, there are many people who do and "Asian Playboy" is able to capitalize on that fear.

I don't think that describes anyone in the thread.

Please - SP is the poster child for thinking that.

[snailpoo]

I find it amusing that we can basically agree on the topic at hand, yet you'll have to disagree with me just for the sake of disagreeing with me. Did all those posters on that other forum agreeing with me and not you really affect you that much over the years?

[Banana]

Yea, I thought that Cloud's quote was incorrect. It was much higher than that with a ratio of at least 3:1.

Snailpoo: I disagree with the CD as well not because not only because it reinforces stereotypes but also because it's sole purpose actually runs counter to bringing up the self esteem of Asian guys who take his course; self esteem issues that he claims to want to improve.

[Sunflare]

Thx bro, I agree with some of the stuff you say, you shouldn't waste time arguing for the DVD and engaging in wordplay. It is difficult to defend using the same mental frame of reference that some people here are stuck in, and might have been made without much foresight as to how certain people would react to it.

Even at 60$ the DVD I doubt is going to make as much of a return on it's own, than helping to drawing the inclusion of non-asians in the curriculum where the real bank is. Really when you think about it, the ABC's program is geared towards interracial dating between Asian men and White females, how is that going to fly with your typical white male? Having a video like this around shows that they are inclusive of people of other races and not exclusive.

So all this talk of them selling out is nonsense, because you can say they are selling out the race but you can also say they are affirming the principle of racial tolerance. It can go either way depending upon their actions, so it's like being stuck in a rock and a hard place.

Right, my POV is exactly that, racial tolerance and dating.

Yeah I have to admit, it's a waste of time and energy arguing over this topic at this point if ppl have to be so confrontational and arguementive in debating with others with differing opinions in the minority on the PUA phenomenon. They keep on harping on the DVD and getting all personal and emo about it when this thread is really about the whole deal of AM PUAs and how they are actually doing something about the IR dating disparity by going out there and dating beautiful women of all races as according to the OP, and according to my personal viewpoint and others with similar POVs. Seriously. I might find more enjoyment watching the paint peel of the walls then continuing to debate about it in this shit-o-thon of a discussion over an abcsofattraction bootcamp and a DVD on dating Asian women for like nine pages already.

[tripostrophe]

Thanks for the clarification j&j2. And sunflare, do you need us to bring in the von trapps or can you find the door yourself? Ignore list now...

[applehead]

Right, my POV is exactly that, racial tolerance and dating.

Yeah I have to admit, it's a waste of time and energy arguing over this topic at this point if ppl have to be so confrontational and arguementive in debating with others with differing opinions in the minority on the PUA phenomenon. They keep on harping on the DVD and getting all personal and emo about it when this thread is really about the whole deal of AM PUAs and how they are actually doing something about the IR dating disparity by going out there and dating beautiful women of all races as according to the OP, and according to my personal viewpoint and others with similar POVs. Seriously. I might find more enjoyment watching the paint peel of the walls then continuing to debate about it in this shit-o-thon of a discussion over an abcsofattraction bootcamp and a DVD on dating Asian women for like nine pages already.

9 pages of which you contributed about a third of.
my god. you are verbose.
no one reads long posts on forums!

[Sunflare]

Thanks for the clarification j&j2. And sunflare, do you need us to bring in the von trapps or can you find the door yourself? Ignore list now...

Thanks a million. One less person I have to deal with, screaming at me, just because my viewpoints differs from someone else.

Again thanks.

9 pages of which you contributed about a third of.
my god. you are verbose.
no one reads long posts on forums!

Yeah.
9 pages of me defending myself from false accusations of being sexist.
And absorbing insults and misunderstandings.
And talking about crayons and construction paper.
And talking about Cleopatra theories which are all off topic.
And explaining that this is not about a English class.
Because this is a discussion about the machosexual.
And the dynamics of the AM PUA and dating.
And the ABCs of Attraction bootcamps.
And how I'm for racial tolerance in dating.
But the thread is going down the drain into nothing.
Down. Down. Down. Down.
Down. Down. Down.
Down. Down.
Down.
...

Oh look my first post I ever wrote.
Written in block style.
Nice.
Thank you applehead.
For teaching me how to post.
In block style.
So did I get it rite?

I find it amusing that we can basically agree on the topic at hand, yet you'll have to disagree with me just for the sake of disagreeing with me. Did all those posters on that other forum agreeing with me and not you really affect you that much over the years?

Still off topic.

Isn't that what you do when you debate? Disagreeing with others just for the sake of disagreeing to get your internet argument win? Like that means anything? To add, datamining, trolling, and misconstruing other ppls posts? At least I give credit when it's due. Even with you -- when it's due.

Why do you still have this grudge with j&j2 anyway from whatever the other forum was?

[snailpoo]

Yeah I have to admit, it's a waste of time and energy arguing over this topic at this point if ppl have to be so confrontational and arguementive in debating with others with differing opinions in the minority on the PUA phenomenon. They keep on harping on the DVD and getting all personal and emo about it when this thread is really about the whole deal of AM PUAs and how they are actually doing something about the IR dating disparity by going out there and dating beautiful women of all races as according to the OP, and according to my personal viewpoint and others with similar POVs. Seriously. I might find more enjoyment watching the paint peel of the walls then continuing to debate about it in this shit-o-thon of a discussion over an abcsofattraction bootcamp and a DVD on dating Asian women for like nine pages already.

And yet you're still posting. You've written more often and longer than anyone else here. :biggrin:

Isn't that what you do when you debate?

No, I fundamentally disagree with something and offer you the exact reason why I think you're wrong, as in this case, the exact place where your reading and comprehension failed to clue you into the negative stereotypes you so easily imagined in the Cleopatra article but can't seem to see in the DVD description. How you can willfully miss seeing negative AF stereotypes WHILE you claim to support an APA movement, and then dismiss any attempt to clue you into the dichotomy as "offtopic" is a pretty impressive show of how far you can stick your head up your ass.

Or maybe I should just follow your example of debate and dismiss everything as off-topic, trolling, and ignorant.

[monkeygone2]

Thanks for the negative karma, Sunflare.

It's not the neg karma that bothered me, it's the message you attached with it. (No, I don't think I posted too much on this thread.)
---------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I think that people bring their own 'issues' when strongly disagreeing with someone's post.

In this thread, we have people strongly disagreeing with the DVD, possibly because they're women who are affected by this type of 'admiration' (whether or not they're in a bar situation),
or because they're asian men who are thinking of the women in their family/friend circle...

We have men who strongly defend the DVD, choosing to give the DVD's endorser the benefit of the doubt, because they received helped from a similar program...

I can at least see where everyone's coming from.

But for those who were puzzled by someone's claim that Asian Playboy's detractors turned this into "an effeminate thread", you must remember the infamous hot asian chicks thread (which was deleted several months ago).

For those who didn't see the deleted thread, it was the most homoerotic conversation between two males....
'Ooooo I think I felt something move down there, Sir.'
'Mm hmm my pleasure, Sir.'

In a way, I wish the thread wasn't deleted, because I believe the 2 males involved would eventually have a breakthrough as to why they were so violently angry with the deletion of the thread, screaming about "cutting off pussies" and "you disagree because you're effeminate".

But in the end, I think the thread's deletion was for the best. Personal journeys of self discovery should be private and I hope the 2 males involved find their way to understanding their anger and finding peace and happiness.

[Sunflare]

Well you did a damn good excellent job of doing APB a favor by endorsing the ABCs of Attraction bootcamp and seminars by YOUR ranting and raving without realizing it. Here you guys are insulting AMs who are already having fun with beautiful ladies or who are striving to improve on their romantic lives and well,
It backfired.

Look at all the hits on this thread already.


Great job guys and really excellent discussion. I'm laughing at this.

[snailpoo]

It backfired.

Look at all the hits on this thread already.


Again, ignorant. And off topic.

[Sunflare]

Thanks for the negative karma, Sunflare.

It's not the neg karma that bothered me, it's the message you attached with it. (No, I don't think I posted too much on this thread.)
---------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I think that people bring their own 'issues' when strongly disagreeing with someone's post.

In this thread, we have people strongly disagreeing with the DVD, possibly because they're women who are affected by this type of 'admiration' (whether or not they're in a bar situation),
or because they're asian men who are thinking of the women in their family/friend circle...

We have men who strongly defend the DVD, choosing to give the DVD's endorser the benefit of the doubt, because they received helped from a similar program...

I can at least see where everyone's coming from.

Your welcome.

Good. I can relate to that post.

But for those who were puzzled by someone's claim that Asian Playboy's detractors turned this into "an effeminate thread", you must remember the infamous hot asian chicks thread (which was deleted several months ago).

For those who didn't see the deleted thread, it was the most homoerotic conversation between two males....
'Ooooo I think I felt something move down there, Sir.'
'Mm hmm my pleasure, Sir.'

In a way, I wish the thread wasn't deleted, because I believe the 2 males involved would eventually have a breakthrough as to why they were so violently angry with the deletion of the thread, screaming about "cutting off pussies" and "you disagree because you're effeminate".


Thanks for the update.

Homoerotic? The participants in question are both heterosexuals.

But in the end, I think the thread's deletion was for the best. Personal journeys of self discovery should be private and I hope the 2 males involved find their way to understanding their anger and finding peace and happiness.

For Asian males who allow themselves to become asexual and in a trap (excluding those in religion who are deeply dedicated to ther faith) it would be an anger issue.

As these who machosexuals as someone brought up:

Straight up, the issue here is undeniably racism along with it the issue of sexism, something that I actually don’t agree with it though with the ultra feminist argument .

PUAs are sell outs someone mentioned (Yes use their model minority image to demonstrate that they are hot, the shit as far as the da6ing scene is concerned. You ppl want to talk about Asiaphiles, hey the AM PUAs I’m sure make even the white male players nervous to sat the least).

Right now, there are many Asian men who are like literally getting beautiful woman of all kinds of ethnicities. I know one AM dating a hot latina chick, TONs of AMs dating white chicks, and personally knew two AMs, real gentleman, both married, to beautiful black women. Oh and a Indian dude married to a drop dead gorgeous Asian women. Hey a lot of South Asians are straight up players too and I give them props.

Forget the AMs now, I seen them do it all with beautiful ladies as it is, and it really makes me motivated to ever inprove on my life so I can also have the opportunity of freedom of choice in dating women.

The point I am trying to make is that the AM machosexual image needs to be preserved and progress.

Seriously. The thinking of the PUA is deeper then you think. Hey.
The bootcamp APB offers the opportunity for many AMs who want a more furfilling life with beautiful women , or who wishes to make that statement to mainstream America or just simply want to get the women they want and live on with their personal life for personal benefit. Either way debunking the stereotype that AMs are asexual maniacs who shit on Asian women nor whatever.

Look, I hear all of you, but c’mon, what do we want to shit on the AMs who are in reality true lovers, more so then white or black men in truth and can bring to the bread home to the table too?

How much more in detail do I have to go with this? Bring this to nuclear physics or something? Look if AFs can get any man of any ethnicity is it obvious that we as Asian men do the same? Get any girl of any rae that wthey want? Hey even with AMs who DON’T sell out in this way ) I give major props too.

That’s the point and that’s why I don’t agree with many here. OK? That’s my essay on reading comprehension since you keep on bothering on your own personal issues with at least three members on the board over 'issues'.

And yet you're still posting. You've written more often and longer than anyone else here. :biggrin:



No, I fundamentally disagree with something and offer you the exact reason why I think you're wrong, as in this case, the exact place where your reading and comprehension failed to clue you into the negative stereotypes you so easily imagined in the Cleopatra article but can't seem to see in the DVD description. How you can willfully miss seeing negative AF stereotypes WHILE you claim to support an APA movement, and then dismiss any attempt to clue you into the dichotomy as "offtopic" is a pretty impressive show of how far you can stick your head up your ass.

Or maybe I should just follow your example of debate and dismiss everything as off-topic, trolling, and ignorant.

I think I ended up with temporary double vision when I saw this post.

[snailpoo]

How much more in detail do I have to go with this? Bring this to nuclear physics or something?

No, just first grade English would be nice.

[Sunflare]

I give up. Snailpoo please put what ever it is you are tripping on DOWN and calm down and post coheranty with at least some sense. Can you do that?

[snailpoo]

I give up. Snailpoo please put what ever it is you are tripping on DOWN and calm down ad post coheranty with at least some sense. Can you do that?

As coheranty as this?


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW
One of these is about to change. What is it that is about to change? Ummm.... the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women.

Nope, I don't think I will ever consciously hope to achieve that level of coheranty. That coheranty takes serious skill.

[monkeygone2]

Homoerotic? The participants in question are both heterosexuals.



...........

[Sunflare]

As coheranty as this?



Nope, I don't think I can ever consciously achieve that level of coheranty. That coheranty takes serious skill.

Look whatever your grudge is with me, cut it out. Seriously the way you are behaving it parallells with an egotistical maniac who had a hit of crack. Or two.

[eos]

Look everyone. I think I have the perfect solution:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3605/3608905603_41aa5715ab.jpg?v=0

I'm feeling kinda sassy today.

[snailpoo]

Look whatever your grudge is with me, cut it out. Seriously the way you are behaving it parallells with an egotistical maniac who had a hit of crack. Or two.

No grudge. You're just hilarious.


Asian Women...

Beautiful...

Exotic...

Elusive...

But one of those three is about to change. NOW
One of these is about to change. What is it that is about to change? Ummm.... the viewer's stereotypical view and misconceptions of Asian women.

Instant classic.

[BeTheReds]

After reading through some of this thread, I have to say...

It is refreshing to find that this succesful program exists, and is helping some people to realize that the problem isn't this or that reason that they can't get girls, the problem is with themselves.

Next, I found it interesting that a woman came into the Man's forum and complained that the thread, about picking up women, was heavily male dominated. And complained that we aren't listening to women and don't consider them a real part of "the movement". This is an issue that isn't part of "the movement" really. Unless it's about conquering that Dating Disparity, which we all know isn't really an issue for those who actually can date women.

Finally, I think this DVD that people seem to be knocking might actually have something to it. Sure, it might be based on stereotypes and misconceptions of Asian women, but if it works, then what are you going to do, shun the women it worked on? There are subtle cultural commonalities that the majority of Asian women in America have, such as, being immigrants or children of immigrants. A family which places high importance on education. Living in a society that sometimes sees us as perpetual foreigners, etc etc. Perhaps there is some way to draw upon the experiences that these commonalities bring that the majority of the time will work to hook you up with AFs.. I know that none of us are going to buy it, but don't complain about a dvd you didn't see. And if it works, is the problem with the DVD?

[applehead]

After reading through some of this thread, I have to say...

It is refreshing to find that this succesful program exists, and is helping some people to realize that the problem isn't this or that reason that they can't get girls, the problem is with themselves.

Next, I found it interesting that a woman came into the Man's forum and complained that the thread, about picking up women, was heavily male dominated. And complained that we aren't listening to women and don't consider them a real part of "the movement". This is an issue that isn't part of "the movement" really. Unless it's about conquering that Dating Disparity, which we all know isn't really an issue for those who actually can date women.

Finally, I think this DVD that people seem to be knocking might actually have something to it. Sure, it might be based on stereotypes and misconceptions of Asian women, but if it works, then what are you going to do, shun the women it worked on? There are subtle cultural commonalities that the majority of Asian women in America have, such as, being immigrants or children of immigrants. A family which places high importance on education. Living in a society that sometimes sees us as perpetual foreigners, etc etc. Perhaps there is some way to draw upon the experiences that these commonalities bring that the majority of the time will work to hook you up with AFs.. I know that none of us are going to buy it, but don't complain about a dvd you didn't see. And if it works, is the problem with the DVD?

the only women who participated in the thread
were eos and i.
and we never said/typed any of the things you
claimed we did.
just putting that out there; in case you have the wrong idea.

the idea of that DVD is just so ridiculous.
i find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum
is defending even an iota of its existence.
oh well.

[j&j2]

I find it amusing that we can basically agree on the topic at hand, yet you'll have to disagree with me just for the sake of disagreeing with me. Did all those posters on that other forum agreeing with me and not you really affect you that much over the years?

I would find that fact that you repeatedly look at things in a sloppy, superficial manner (misusing facts/statistics) amusing if it wasn't so pathetic and tiresome (really, how did you become an attorney?).

Uhh, I'm disagreeing w/ your (repeated) assertion that the reason why AF/WM couples outnumber AM/WF couples is b/c there are simply more AFs and thus, the disparity is not much of an issue - uhh, remember, YOU were the one who brought that up again a few posts back?

Even after I have "schooled" you numerous times as to why your "analysis" was pretty much all wrong - you STILL CONTINUE to make the same asinine "argument" (really, how obtuse are you?).

And I see your delusions haven't gone away, since you continue to falsely state that most people on the other forum agreed w/ you. The only people who agreed w/ you were your gf, a couple of WM posters (gee, shocking) and a desi male poster who wasn't bright enough to pick up on the fact that his Chinese-Canadian ex-gf had a bias against East Asian men (despite the fact that she told me so herself; after a long and protracted reasoning w/ her, I finally got the girl and her friend w/ a similar attitude towards EAMs to admit that maybe they weren't being fair about the whole thing and that their outlook may be off-base).

Just like your delusion that negative stereotypes for AFs was a problem and yet, wasn't so for AMs since "most people aren't aware of the negative stereotypes for AMs" (care to wager if the majority, if not pretty much all the posters here think different?).

Or your delusion thinking that APB didn't think that societal factors weren't an issue for AMs (he clearly does - it's just something that AMs have to overcome).

If this excellent essay (from Hyphen)...

Now, as for why Asian Americans date white guys: I wish I could say that it's simple, that -- duh -- there are a lot of them. Caucasians do outnumber Asian Americans by over 200 million. But it really isn't so simple.... And that really isn't the right question. Instead of asking why so many AsAm women date white men, we should be asking why so few AsAm women date AsAm guys. I know a lot of AsAm women who, admittedly, prefer not to date Asian men because they think that they are "effeminate" or "too short" (never mind that we are, on average, even shorter). And I just want to say that this preference (or lack thereof) is not based on the objective or substantive observations about the masculinity or physique of Asian men, but rather is based on the way in which American (i.e. white) society has stereotyped Asian men since the mid-1800s (read: relegating them to jobs traditionally held by women and then condemning them for holding jobs meant for women, etc.). Taking this into consideration, the apparent AsAm preference for white guys doesn't seem to be grounded in a sexual objectification of white guys, but actually seems to be underpinned by a socially conditioned aversion to Asian men. Funny how we get all bent out of shape about being objectified based on western perceptions of our race but have no problem discriminating against our male counterparts on the same basis.That's right ladies: If you say you don't date Asian guys because they're less than (or date white guys because they are, by comparison, more than)...well, you've just bought into over a century of racism and anti-Asian sentiment, and are perpetuating it in your own life on a daily basis.

http://www.hyphenmagazine.com/blog/2009/02/since-writing-my-last-entry.html#more

had been written by an AM, your modus operandi would have been to accuse the author of being a typical AM loser w/ no social/sex life.

And here's an oldie but a goodie from Audrey Magazine...

Manufactured Desire

“Your physical and sexual attraction is socially constructed,” says Elaine Kim, Ph.D., professor of Asian American Studies at the University of California at Berkeley, “and it’s hard to escape from that.” If you’re Asian, the way you see yourself and the way you think about beauty, according to Kim, is very different if you went to high school in Monterey Park (a community in Los Angeles County with a large Asian population), where the kids voted most popular, the most beautiful were Asian, versus going to a high school where everyone is blonde-haired and blue-eyed.

Karen, a 32-year-old Korean American who has dated mostly white men, readily admits she’s been affected by her environment. Growing up in a predominantly white town in Southern California, the only Asian males in her life were either related to her (father, brothers, cousins) or were the men at church. “I didn’t see Asian guys in a sexual way when I was growing up,” she says. It didn’t help that the only images she saw of Asian males in the media were of cringe-inducing geeks like Long Duck Dong in the teen flick, Sixteen Candles, or the strangely asexual and decidedly unattractive David Carradine character in the television series, Kung Fu.

“I just don’t find Asian guys attractive,” Karen says. “They’re usually short and slight and don’t seem confident.”

Negative stereotypes and images of Asian males in the media have had a real impact on the dating choices of AAs, according to Lee. In a study she conducted among Korean Americans in New York, the men reported that they had little choice but to date Asian women because non-Asian women were not attracted to them. Many of the Korean American women in the study believed the negative images of AA men as nerdy and sexually undesirable. This was especially true if, like Karen, the women had little contact with Asians growing up and their views were largely shaped by movies and television shows.

“Television and other media act as ‘cultural propaganda,’ powerful social institutions shaping racialized views in both overt and covert ways,” says Lee. “These ‘controlling images’ also influence some Asian Americans to have negative racial views of themselves.”

Tony, the Japanese American who has never been attracted to Asian women, admits he’s been affected by the shows he watched as a youngster. “I had the biggest crush on Cheryl Ladd when I was growing up. I thought she was the prettiest of the Charlie’s Angels.” (For those too young to know, Ladd is a blonde, blue-eyed actress from the original TV series Charlie’s Angels in the ’70s.) “Growing up, the beauty standard around you is the white girl. As you grow older, you’re exposed to other cultures and you learn that standard doesn’t apply. But I’ve been conditioned white,” he shrugs.

Kim’s comments are similar. “Whiteness has a centrality; it is the highest point in the hierarchy,” she explains. “Whiteness is taken as the norm against which everyone else is measured and you couldn’t help but buy into it.”

“Growing up around whites,” she remembers, “I was shocked when I walked by a mirror and saw my Asian reflection.” She felt brainwashed by a white society that told her people like her were ugly and inferior. “I had to purge myself of that thought,” she says, explaining why she no longer dates white men, despite having been married to one. “If I went out with a white guy, I’d be going back to that. It’s my problem,” she acknowledges, “but I don’t want to be in that situation again.”

http://web.archive.org/web/20060212132003/http://www.audreymagazine.com/Sep2005/Features03.asp

...but despite academic studies saying otherwise, you continue to spew your spiel that the IR disparity isn't a problem b/c it's just a number's game (as I stated many times, it's not the IR disparity so much as the underlying issues).

You are nothing but a FRAUD who thinks he knows what he is talking about and despite much evidence to the contrary (including repeated pointing out misuse of data/facts), you continue to make the same erroneous arguments time and time again, so EXCUSE me if I point out (once again) your erroneous use of data/facts and your erroneous conclusion/assertion.

[BeTheReds]

the only women who participated in the thread
were eos and i.
and we never said/typed any of the things you
claimed we did.
just putting that out there; in case you have the wrong idea.

the idea of that DVD is just so ridiculous.
i find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum
is defending even an iota of its existence.
oh well.

Well, specificallywhat I was referring to was this:


tell me how many women who've contributed to this thread so far have said ANYTHING positive about the program. Or do women not count as 'activists' worth listening to?

I guess tripostrophe isn't a woman. I stand corrected.

As for the DVD, the point of my comment was not to defend anyone who made it, bought it, or otherwise used it. All I was saying was that perhaps the problem isn't the DVD itself, it is the women who fall for all the tricks the DVD teaches, and the men who need to resort to those tricks to get with girls rather than acting like who they are and letting things happen naturally.

The thing I don't get about all these Pick Up artist schemes is how do you actually sustain a relationship? After pretending to be someone you aren't to get them to like you, and after banging them (i guess), when they find out you used them, you're history.

[j&j2]

Finally, I think this DVD that people seem to be knocking might actually have something to it. Sure, it might be based on stereotypes and misconceptions of Asian women, but if it works, then what are you going to do, shun the women it worked on? There are subtle cultural commonalities that the majority of Asian women in America have, such as, being immigrants or children of immigrants. A family which places high importance on education. Living in a society that sometimes sees us as perpetual foreigners, etc etc. Perhaps there is some way to draw upon the experiences that these commonalities bring that the majority of the time will work to hook you up with AFs.. I know that none of us are going to buy it, but don't complain about a dvd you didn't see. And if it works, is the problem with the DVD?

Maybe the DVD isn't so bad, but from the sounds of it (possibly focusing on "FOBs"), I have my doubts.

Otoh (giving a generous benefit of the doubt to the contents of the DVD), how the DVD is being marketed is complete BS.

1st off, if the prime market is AMs, why the need for stereotypical description such as "beautiful, exotic and elusive"?

2nd, the whole cultural commonalities that you bring up is something that the majority of AMs should be familiar w/ - they hardly need a DVD to point out such things. Otoh, WMs...

3rd, as I already stated, approaching AFs and dating them is really no different than approaching white or other groups of women - so this race specific dating "advice" is a bunch of crock. Otherwise, why would so many WMs have had success in dating AFs - it's not like all of them bought a book or DVD to teach them how?

[BeTheReds]

Otoh (giving a generous benefit of the doubt to the contents of the DVD), how the DVD is being marketed is complete BS.

1st off, if the prime market is AMs, why the need for stereotypical description such as "beautiful, exotic and elusive"?


The prime market isn't AM's it's guys who want to date Asian women. I imagine that most of the people who buy it will be non-Asian, which is how it is marketed. Asian Playboy is reccomending it to AMs, not the makers of the DVD.


2nd, the whole cultural commonalities that you bring up is something that the majority of AMs should be familiar w/ - they hardly need a DVD to point out such things. Otoh, WMs...

Well that's true. We don't need a DVD to point that out, but perhaps there are other things that it does talk about that Asian guys like us perhaps aren't aware of. Perhaps they did case studies or something.

As stated above the target market isn't AM's, only Asian Playboy is reccomending it.


3rd, as I already stated, approaching AFs and dating them is really no different than approaching white or other groups of women - so this race specific dating "advice" is a bunch of crock. Otherwise, why would so many WMs have had success in dating AFs - it's not like all of them bought a book or DVD to teach them how?

There's more to it than that, but basically yes, if you need the DVD in the first place, then you lack social skills.

[BeTheReds]

If this excellent essay (from Hyphen)...


Instead of asking why so many AsAm women date white men, we should be asking why so few AsAm women date AsAm guys.

Really? Is that really what we should be asking? That's certainly misleading, as most Asian women date Asian American guys.

Certainly a higher proportion of Asian women date White guys than Asian men dating White women, but we can't say "Why do so few Asian women like Asian men" when the majority of them do.

Semantics aside, please don't have a personal flame war. Get back to your respective arguments. It doesn't matter if you schooled someone or everyone on some other forum agreed. Argue with facts and justify your opinions.

[snailpoo]

Even after I have "schooled" you numerous times as to why your "analysis" was pretty much all wrong - you STILL CONTINUE to make the same asinine "argument" (really, how obtuse are you?).

And I see your delusions haven't gone away, since you continue to falsely state that most people on the other forum agreed w/ you. The only people who agreed w/ you were your gf, a couple of WM posters (gee, shocking) and a desi male poster who wasn't bright enough to pick up on the fact that his Chinese-Canadian ex-gf had a bias against East Asian men (despite the fact that she told me so herself; after a long and protracted reasoning w/ her, I finally got the girl and her friend w/ a similar attitude towards EAMs to admit that maybe they weren't being fair about the whole thing and that their outlook may be off-base).

*Yawn* Really? Then why is it that you always ran away from every single thread? Why would you risk banning by starting entirely new ones dedicated to me where people couldn't see what I wrote aside from your misquotes? Or why there were pages and pages of people agreeing with me and not you? Why follow me here to pretend and pretend and pretend?

I'm truly sorry that you've become so obessed about me as to have actually tried to categorize and track down or remember who those people were (my gf never joined that board) or misremember the number of them, but seriously, get over it.

If you really wish to start afresh, you can actually start by providing the age and gender breakdowns for the 1.5 and 2nd generation numbers that you're still missing to prove your point. Otherwise, nothing you've done disproves the fact that I was right: While there is a dating disparity, while there is discrimination, the problem isn't nearly as bad as the internet makes it seem (and certainly not to the extent of the whiners of the other board who thought that all AMs were all a dateless, useless, dying breed).

[buttermilkwise]

Please - SP is the poster child for thinking that.


Not exactly, sometimes we can be paranoid but sometimes there are also people out there who make passive aggressive responses in the same way I can say a person who thinks a handful of net-addicted asians who are brainwashed over IR disparity will somehow have an effect on the real-world is a fucking retard.

[Sunflare]

No grudge. You're just hilarious.



Instant classic.

Go to the doctor and look into getting a lobotomy so somehow you can come back to reality. The next thing you are probably going to say is that you think you were abducted by aliens or the CIA is after you or something. Where you are wrong is that you always look at things from the wrong perspective. I swear I'm talking to a white dude whenever you pull me into a debate.

What you don't understand is that there are some AMs that need assistance in gaining social skills. Therefore it makes sense that we have bootcamps for that purpose. Same thing with the DVD, hey can learn from it too.

*Yawn* Really? Then why is it that you always ran away from every single thread? Why would you risk banning by starting entirely new ones dedicated to me where people couldn't see what I wrote aside from your misquotes? Or why there were pages and pages of people agreeing with me and not you? Why follow me here to pretend and pretend and pretend?

I'm truly sorry that you've become so obessed about me as to have actually tried to categorize and track down or remember who those people were (my gf never joined that board) or misremember the number of them, but seriously, get over it.

If you really wish to start afresh, you can actually start by providing the age and gender breakdowns for the 1.5 and 2nd generation numbers that you're still missing to prove your point. Otherwise, nothing you've done disproves the fact that I was right: While there is a dating disparity, while there is discrimination, the problem isn't nearly as bad as the internet makes it seem (and certainly not to the extent of the whiners of the other board who thought that all AMs were all a dateless, useless, dying breed).

This is what I mean by holding grudges over nonsense. What does this have to do with the point of the thread? We don't need a recap on the current scorecard for IR. Spare us.

[monkeygone2]

machosexuals as someone brought up

LOL...

calling people who disagree with you "effeminate"...
talking about putting women "in their place"...
"cutting off pussies"...
declaring that you're "macho"...
having a dragqueen-esque screen name "Crystal Clear"...

This is a cry for help.

[Sunflare]

LOL...

calling people who disagree with you "effeminate"...
talking about putting women "in their place"...
"cutting off pussies"...
declaring that you're "macho"...
having a dragqueen-esque screen name "Crystal Clear"...

This is a cry for help.

Cutting off pussys? WTF? I don't remember saying that but it was probably a response to someone who is well, a pussy. Oh wait a sec, I think who it is now that I think about it. I'm talking to him.

No this is having a grudge like a total effeminated bitch like your honey snailpoo. That's why I called you a fanboy a while ago, remember? (Yes men who are married like snailpoo can be so pussy whipped too.) Because of idiotic responses such as this. Hey you called yourself a punk ass over a woman who rejected you. (This is in a concerted effort to stay on topic) At first I was sympathetic with you and your plight over this girl but now I really am laughing at this shit. Meanwhile I learned to take rejection and not be all um . . like a bitch about it. And that's what I was explaining to you.

You really don't know me, do you?

Then you want to put me on the floor in another thread as you said? LOL. You're a joke.

Notice I never start fucking flames. I respond to them.

[monkeygone2]

No this is having a grudge like a total bitch like your honey snailpoo. That's why I called you a fanboy a while ago, remember? Because of idiotic responses such as this.

Posting about Asian Playboy every single day for how many days?

No. You're no fanboy.

[Sunflare]

Posting about Asian Playboy every single day for how many days?

No. You're no fanboy.

Who just posted the latest post above - you did. Today.

Obviously you got issues with this whole masculinity thing in general. OK, look fine you are entitled to your views. I'm not homophobic like some ppl. But seriously. Stop acting like a bitch.

You made a serious mistake by pulling me out out of a dipshit flame responding to snailpoo's fucked up posts into a flame with you now.

Not exactly, sometimes we can be paranoid but sometimes there are also people out there who make passive aggressive responses in the same way I can say a person who thinks a handful of net-addicted asians who are brainwashed over IR disparity will somehow have an effect on the real-world is a fucking retard.

That makes up pretty much the majority of the posters here participating in this thread. Like ultra feminist fanboys. All passive aggressive. Excluding the like 2 women in this sausagefest of discussion who posted here. They are obviously entitled to their views, as women astute about the feminist movement, because they are actually in authority to speak on them because they are women. Not effiminated AMs like some ppl here. Know what I mean?

Edit: Oh let me tell you something since BeTheReds is posting here now, hopefully assigned to moderate this discussion (in the MEN'S forum) on this board. Many mixed Asian men get shitted on by some Asian men, all brainwashed as you said, because they date Asian girls along with whoever else the date of whatever ethnicity.

Now that's completely fucked up.

[Sunflare]

Seriously we have an algae growing geek that even made signatures out of posts in this discussion. Now that's fucking retarded. Makes me wonder why I even bother on APA sites with these discussions.

This is the image that comes to mind when I think of this poster. I random googled it:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2125/3528197977_75d2f6e1a9.jpg?v=0

[Banana]

Best.

Thread.

Ever.

[cloudzero]

http://www.brownnoiseunit.com/files/images/comic%20book%20guy.jpg

[Sunflare]

^ What's wrong with having a like for women with nice legs? Gimmie a break. Are you really a male?

[BeTheReds]

Edit: Oh let me tell you something since BeTheReds is posting here now, hopefully assigned to moderate this discussion (in the MEN'S forum) on this board..

I am here on my own actually. I don't have any assignments that's not how it works. However,j&j2 and snailpoo need to stop flaming now.


Many mixed Asian men get shitted on by some Asian men, all brainwashed as you said, because they date Asian girls along with whoever else the date of whatever ethnicity.

Now that's fucked up!


I dunno. It seems like the shitting on is for choosing to date Asian girls. No shitting on occurs for dating non-Asians. It's nice though that once everyone grows the fuck up, nobody bothers anyone about it anymore.

[Banana]

The maturity rating of this thread is 5 stars.

[eos]

The maturity rating of this thread is 5 stars.

Five stars, yes, but.....out of how many?

[tripostrophe]

Next, I found it interesting that a woman came into the Man's forum and complained that the thread, about picking up women, was heavily male dominated. And complained that we aren't listening to women and don't consider them a real part of "the movement". This is an issue that isn't part of "the movement" really. Unless it's about conquering that Dating Disparity, which we all know isn't really an issue for those who actually can date women.


Dude btr, in addition to my profile (:biggrin:), go back and read my posts a little closer.


As for the DVD, the point of my comment was not to defend anyone who made it, bought it, or otherwise used it. All I was saying was that perhaps the problem isn't the DVD itself, it is the women who fall for all the tricks the DVD teaches, and the men who need to resort to those tricks to get with girls rather than acting like who they are and letting things happen naturally.

The thing I don't get about all these Pick Up artist schemes is how do you actually sustain a relationship? After pretending to be someone you aren't to get them to like you, and after banging them (i guess), when they find out you used them, you're history.

Dude that sounds like victim-blaming. Who's to say that an As(Am) woman is going to fall for it? The result could simply be another idiot who comes up to her and starts hitting on her with his new found cultural competency skills. The problem does not start with Asian American woman - you can get the general populace streetwise, but it's not going to stop pickpockets from trying. But feeling your question.

Maybe the DVD isn't so bad, but from the sounds of it (possibly focusing on "FOBs"), I have my doubts.

Otoh (giving a generous benefit of the doubt to the contents of the DVD), how the DVD is being marketed is complete BS.

1st off, if the prime market is AMs, why the need for stereotypical description such as "beautiful, exotic and elusive"?

2nd, the whole cultural commonalities that you bring up is something that the majority of AMs should be familiar w/ - they hardly need a DVD to point out such things. Otoh, WMs...

3rd, as I already stated, approaching AFs and dating them is really no different than approaching white or other groups of women - so this race specific dating "advice" is a bunch of crock. Otherwise, why would so many WMs have had success in dating AFs - it's not like all of them bought a book or DVD to teach them how?

Feeling 1, 2 is maybe and 3 is right on! I say two is a maybe because if people grew up in white households (as in transracial adoptees), are multiple generations down with families who've lost a lot of the culture from the country of origin, bi or multiracial with a heavy emphasis on assimilation, etc. then that might not be the case. But regardless, all of that is wiped clean by number 3.

[snailpoo]

Seriously we have an algae growing geek that even made signatures out of posts in this discussion. Now that's fucking retarded. Makes me wonder why I even bother on APA sites with these discussions.

This is the image that comes to mind when I think of this poster. I random googled it:


As opposed to you who picked a signature because you still don't understand sarcasm? :biggrin:

And do you know what's really laughable? For all the crap you posted about supporting about APA movement (but only the male side), you just utilized negative stereotypes to attack me. Good job, Baby Huey.


I am here on my own actually. I don't have any assignments that's not how it works. However,j&j2 and snailpoo need to stop flaming now.

I tend to ingore j&j2 until he starts into me and wouldn't even bring up the past if he didn't wish to pretend.

[kusojiji]

Makes me wonder why I even bother on APA sites with these discussions.



Yeah, you shouldn't even bother. You should just stick to your support groups for tiny, impotent, angry sexists.

[BeTheReds]

Guys! The DVD isn't marketed to APAs! Asian PLAYBOY is the one reccomending it! Those who made it did not have the Asian Man in mind really.

[snailpoo]

Guys! The DVD isn't marketed to APAs! Asian PLAYBOY is the one reccomending it! Those who made it did not have the Asian Man in mind really.

The only one doubting that is Sunflare.

[BeTheReds]

Dude that sounds like victim-blaming. Who's to say that an As(Am) woman is going to fall for it? The result could simply be another idiot who comes up to her and starts hitting on her with his new found cultural competency skills. The problem does not start with Asian American woman - you can get the general populace streetwise, but it's not going to stop pickpockets from trying. But feeling your question.



Well, we have to see what the results are to know if it actually works or does not.

I think that basically if an Asian girl doesn't like White dudes, black dudes, or Asian dudes for that matter, then nothing the DVD contains will change that.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Just saying that if in fact this DVD "works", then should we be concerned about the DVD or should we instead focus or energy on educating people so that it doesn't work?

Imagine if after dating for a year, the Asian girl were to find the DVD in her BF's apartment. That would be funny!

[j&j2]

Feeling 1, 2 is maybe and 3 is right on! I say two is a maybe because if people grew up in white households (as in transracial adoptees), are multiple generations down with families who've lost a lot of the culture from the country of origin, bi or multiracial with a heavy emphasis on assimilation, etc. then that might not be the case. But regardless, all of that is wiped clean by number 3.

I can see your point about no.2, but the majority of AMs don't fit that criteria, and of the ones who do, many are just interested in dating WFs - but yeah, I can see how some would need help w/ the cultural aspects, but methinks that this DVD would instead, just make them into Asians w/ an Asian fetish and all the baggage that comes w/ that.

Guys! The DVD isn't marketed to APAs! Asian PLAYBOY is the one reccomending it! Those who made it did not have the Asian Man in mind really.

I think the point being is that it is being offered for sale on APB's site (if I'm not mistaken), whose target audience is AMs.

And if not (and is being advertised primarily to WMs) - then shame on APB for shilling the DVD anyway, esp. considering how it being marketed w/ respect to the portrayal of AFs.

Really? Is that really what we should be asking? That's certainly misleading, as most Asian women date Asian American guys.

Certainly a higher proportion of Asian women date White guys than Asian men dating White women, but we can't say "Why do so few Asian women like Asian men" when the majority of them do.

Again, we have to differentiate the FOBs from the assimilated Asian-Americans (2nd gen and on or even 1.5 gen - coming to the state prior to age 13).

W/ regard to US born or raised Asians, nearly as many AFs marry WMs as they do AMs, and the nos. who marry BMs or non-white HMs are minuscle.

Look - it doesn't matter to me that an AF is dating or marries a WM (or a BM or HM, heck, I wish more would do so), but what IS troubling is that a significant portion of the AF pop. (and an increasing portion of the AM pop. w/ regard to AFs) refuse or don't even try to date AMs b/c they buy into all the negative stereotypes.

If an AF is dating a WM and doesn't have a derogatory opinion on AMs, then that's perfectly fine (after all, I've dated plenty of WFs).

But there are enough who DO have a low opinion of AMs, enough so where it not only has permeated the social-fabric (from college campuses to Asian women magazines to talk shows like Tyra; heck even the knuckleheads on stormfront remark about how "Chinese women loooove WMs - can't they stick to their own?"), academics have studied it.

Originally Posted by Banana
If there wasn't a need, the business model would die out. This is why I laugh when people don't think that the disparity is a big problem. Even if there wasn't, there are many people who do and "Asian Playboy" is able to capitalize on that fear.

I don't think that describes anyone in the thread.

Uhh, SP has stated exactly that, many a time.

He also stated (many a time) that he didn't think the general income disparity btwn AMs and WMs of the same education level was a "big problem" or the fact that there aren't many Asian-Ams in high level executive positions.

Also, he doesn't think the negative stereotypes of AMs are a "big problem" either since he claims that most Americans are unaware of them.

[buttermilkwise]

I dunno. It seems like the shitting on is for choosing to date Asian girls. No shitting on occurs for dating non-Asians. It's nice though that once everyone grows the fuck up, nobody bothers anyone about it anymore.

I'm wondering though once they find out that you are the son of an Asian male, whether that makes it more acceptable? Or just generally more accepting for asian people in the case of Hapa's.




Uhh, SP has stated exactly that, many a time.

He also stated (many a time) that he didn't think the general income disparity btwn AMs and WMs of the same education level was a "big problem" or the fact that there aren't many Asian-Ams in high level executive positions.

Also, he doesn't think the negative stereotypes of AMs are a "big problem" either since he claims that most Americans are unaware of them.



Relax man, i've got nothing against you or Snailpoo, we're all in this mess together anyway. Nobody is leaving this thread with cleanhands.

[j&j2]

The prime market isn't AM's it's guys who want to date Asian women. I imagine that most of the people who buy it will be non-Asian, which is how it is marketed. Asian Playboy is reccomending it to AMs, not the makers of the DVD.

As stated above the target market isn't AM's, only Asian Playboy is reccomending it.

Again, while the prime target for those who made the DVD wasn't AMs, the prime target of the site where the DVD is being sold, APB's website (if I'm not mistaken), are AMs.

And considering how the DVD is being marketed on the site (w/ stereotypical verbiage of AFs), (1) shame on APB and (2) shame on APB for having any association w/ the DVD, much less recommending and selling it, a DVD which now clearly seems to have been geared to loser WMs w/ an Asian fetish.

[snailpoo]

But anyway, as BeTheReds said, stick to the facts. You can start here:

And if there are 489k more AFs over the age of 18 than AMs over the age of 18 in the US according to the 2006 Census? (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/IPTable?_bm=y&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201PR&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201T&-qr_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201TPR&-geo_id=01000US&-reg=ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201:012;ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0 201PR:012;ACS_2006_EST_G00_S0201T:012;ACS_2006_EST _G00_S0201TPR:012&-ds_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-format=)

According to the Yahoo chart that Cloudzero is reading from, there are 3,098k married AFs. According to the Census, there are 5,339,792 AFs over the age of 18 in the US, which means that 58% of all AFs are married.

From the same sources, there are 2686k married AMs out of a total of 4,850,650 AMs over the age of 18, for a marriage rate of 55.4%.

Now I repeat these numbers for two reasons. One, and most obviously, yeah, you're going to see a lot more AFs married to other races because there are a lot more AFs. Two, the discrepency in the two marriage rates can be explained by 1. males tend to get married at a later age than females, 2. males have lower marriage rate than females, or 3. all that negative stereotpying does have a negative effect on marriage rates.

I'm not saying there isn't a discrepency, and I'm certainly not saying that there isn't any negative stereotypes or racism. However, is the problem really as bad as the internet makes it seem?

You'll have to excuse my personal bias in that I don't give a rats ass who dates whom, but those Yahoo numbers look completely different when I also look at the Census numbers.

[BeTheReds]

Again, while the prime target for those who made the DVD wasn't AMs, the prime target of the site where the DVD is being sold, APB's website (if I'm not mistaken), are AMs.

And considering how the DVD is being marketed on the site (w/ stereotypical verbiage of AFs), (1) shame on APB and (2) shame on APB for having any association w/ the DVD, much less recommending and selling it, a DVD which now clearly seems to have been geared to loser WMs w/ an Asian fetish.



Well, I think the DVD is fine on that site, because the site and the program that Asian Playboy is marketing isn't really respectful to women in the first place. If you see excerpts and clips, he's telling people how to cleverly lie in order to get the girl in bed, basically.

[buttermilkwise]

Some of you need to read Woody Allen's the 'shallowest man'. Or better watch Michael Kang's 'The Motel' , to understand the bigger picture in all of this.

[Sunflare]

Well, I think the DVD is fine on that site, because the site and the program that Asian Playboy is marketing isn't really respectful to women in the first place. If you see excerpts and clips, he's telling people how to cleverly lie in order to get the girl in bed, basically.

A reasonable way of looking at it, even from the mystery method book by Neil Strauss, he mentions that PUAs have to develop skills to become good actors.

Well, we'll never really know what the real deal is until Asian Playboy responds to clear things up on the issues here. Or watch the DVD itself and see what is actually contained in the DVD..

However, from bettersasianman.com, William Lee says the complete opposite. Among the things he talks about on ethics in his blog, one thing he makes very clear (contrary to the usual Mystery Method) that it is not good for a PUA to lie but instead to be honest. Obviously, lies can catch up with you and really scerew up the game with the PUA. On top of that, lying about things can really cause emotional distress for the woman the PUA may be pursuing.

Maybe the DVD isn't so bad, but from the sounds of it (possibly focusing on "FOBs"), I have my doubts.

Otoh (giving a generous benefit of the doubt to the contents of the DVD), how the DVD is being marketed is complete BS.

1st off, if the prime market is AMs, why the need for stereotypical description such as "beautiful, exotic and elusive"?

Let me interject something and say that I detest stereotypes. Ever since I registered on the forum that has been one of the things that pisses me off to no end, stereotypes.

Now with that cleared up, I guess Asian Playboy is using these labels to attract more interest to the product albeit not in the right way as many are saying here. Can't say what his prime target is, it's easy to to come to the conclusion that he is specifically marketing the DVD to white men with Asian female fetishes. Now if that is undeniably the case, then it's dead wrong but we cant say for absolutely sure.

Not questioning the actual content of the DVD, it would be stupid for me or anyone else to comment on that when I never saw it, but OK, yeah seeing the reactions in this thread, I guess the obvious thing to do is to change the message behind the DVD and tone it down.

But it sounds contradictory that he would market a How to Date Asian women DVD supposedly to target WMs with yellow fever, when I was under the assumption that his prime target is Asian males.

Well only he can answer these questions.

2nd, the whole cultural commonalities that you bring up is something that the majority of AMs should be familiar w/ - they hardly need a DVD to point out such things. Otoh, WMs...

Well there are some APAs, regardless of gender, who are not familiar with cultural commonalities in general.

3rd, as I already stated, approaching AFs and dating them is really no different than approaching white or other groups of women - so this race specific dating "advice" is a bunch of crock. Otherwise, why would so many WMs have had success in dating AFs - it's not like all of them bought a book or DVD to teach them how?

I disagree. You forgot that Asian women are subject to misconceptions and stereotypes that are unique only to APAs. Stereotypes and women does differ according to nationality and race.

As for why so many WMs have success in dating?

I think it's ultimately because of white privilege.

They are on the top of the social ladder because of white privilege. The false notion that dating white men is some sort of ladder to success makes it very easy for WMs, even those who are butt ugly, to 'score' on Asian women and practically all women of color, save for those who are not phased by these false notions about white men.


I'm sure you are aware of this.

[snailpoo]

So why the quote above?


Reading and comprehenion, Sunflare. He started into me.

Let me interject something and say that I detest stereotypes. Ever since I registered on the forum that has been one of the things that pisses me off to no end, stereotypes.

And your use of stereotypes to make fun of me is a hypocritical show of how you're willing to see or cry racism at a drop of a hat but perfectly willing to not only ignore it but use it when it doesn't affect you.

[tripostrophe]

snailpoo - please provide source of the quote w/ white guys and sex tourism. But just another nail in the coffin for this whole ...crapthing that jerry is pitching here.

[Banana]

I don't even remember what the original topic was about.

[Sunflare]

snailpoo - please provide source of the quote w/ white guys and sex tourism. But just another nail in the coffin for this whole ...crapthing that jerry is pitching here.

Why? For what?

I'm sure everybody here is already consciously aware of the sex trade, how it is catering to the western men on sexcapades in Asian countries, how it is a disgrace and a slap in the face to us, and how Asian women suffer in this industry, forced into the sex trade, because of child abuse, homelessness, poverty and many other reasons.

[snailpoo]

Twisted.

I saw the posts thought about it and came to a conclusion on the topic in a post on this page. Pleae click here and fing a tutor to help you to read through my comment. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=563899&postcount=182) Take your time. Get a dictionary if you still have trouble.

That is if you can read.


:biggrin: You're hilarious. Seriously.

Let's click through and see what we find, shall we?

Can't say what his prime target is, it's easy to to come to the conclusion that he is specifically marketing the DVD to white men with Asian female fetishes. Now if that is undeniably the case, then it's dead wrong but we cant say for absolutely sure.

Oh, "specifically marketing the DVD To white men with Asian female fetishes." Again, my objection isn't to APB, my objection is to the DVD. SO, since you're the expert on reading and comprehension, you tell me, when the marketing for the audio course by a guy with the same name, the same title, the same credentials, and in the same business as the guy on the DVD contains:

We've had 58 year old white guys at our seminars who thought it was too late for them, and the only way to hook up with Asian girls was through sex tourism. But he learned, it is so much more rewarding to be able to meet them these girls normally, and pick them up himself without his wallet!

What was it you said? Oh right.

Why? For what?

I'm sure everybody here is already consciously aware of the sex trade, how it is catering to the western men on sexcapades in Asian countries, how it is a disgrace and a slap in the face to us, and how Asian women suffer in this industry, forced into the sex trade, because of child abuse, homelessness, poverty and many other reasons.


So why come to this speculative conclusion if you never took a bootcamp?

What conclusion? I have made no conclusions about APB and have posted NO opinions about him or his bootcamp.



I would have imagined that you finally have wised up as to how stupid you look right about now, but then again, you're the person who posted that quote in my signature and attempted to defend it for the last seven pages.

[Sunflare]

Snailpoo I think it was that Johnny Wolf, an Asian male PUA, was the one who created the DVD. Someone even quoted it in this thread. (Oh yeah, YOU did) I realize it is not from APB, he's only endorsing the product. And again yes for seven pages you keep on dodging the fact that for AMs who are experiencing social problems and want to date Asian girls, they may find the DVD useful.

Keep in mind, Asian Playboy makes it clear that they don't necessarily get into these issues on race. He encourages all his students to date women of all ethnicities. That makes sense.

[snailpoo]

Thank-you, Sunflare. It's been an absolute delight watching you flail around. It really has.

Your problem (is with reading and comprehension, without which you would be in this mess) is that I really haven't said anything negative about APB. Nor have I ignored the fact that some guys may need help. In fact, I said:

Might there not be a middle ground? Obviously nothing further needs to be said about the DVD, but ...

Maybe some guys need an older brother or sister or cousin or friend who was otherwise missing during their formative years. Maybe some guys needed that someone to get them out of their shell. I think if you ask any normally adjusted guy, you'll probably find at least one person who dragged them to that first bar, or who made a great wingman (wingwomen even better), or sat them down and gave them decent advice. Unfortunately, some guys just never had even one person pull them aside for that talk.

I have no idea what's taught in those courses and I have no psychology background to evaluate it even if I did, but there's got to be something out there to fill in for that missing older brother figure for those guys who need one.

No, my issue was with the DVD, and I find it rather amusing that you continually state you believe in all that empowerment and progressiveness while you defend that DVD, not see the the obvious in its marketing, and use negative stereotypes to attack me.

Judging from the way you're posting, however, you're finally seeing the light, however slowly. You're probably even looking for a way out right now, and if it wasn't for your wounded pride, you'd admit your mistake.

[BeTheReds]

Okay if you guys don't want to listen to me and continue your flame war, then I am going to delete all recent flaming. You've all ruined this thread.

Here are some rules to help you.

1. If you can't say something nice about another member, don't say anything at all.
2. Argue with the facts. You have to debate the argument regardless of who is making it. If you simply attack the one making it, it shows that you either have no argument, or you're too dumb to counter his.
3. Don't respond when other people attack you. You'll look better off in the end.

[cloudzero]

^ have you seen the "your taste in woman thread" and "the female mods thread"?

[BeTheReds]

Well, did my best. Any more flaming will have the whole post deleted. Repeat offenders will have more serious consequences up to and including a temp ban.

Sorry if the thread looks a bit incoherent now. There were only 2 people actually talking about the subject matter, and 3 people flaming, leaving us with huge gaps.

And, no I have not seen those other threads.

[snailpoo]

I think one of the things that got deleted was my response to Tripostrophe:

snailpoo - please provide source of the quote w/ white guys and sex tourism. But just another nail in the coffin for this whole ...crapthing that jerry is pitching here.

That quote is NOT from APB. Again, I don't know anything about what APB teaches or whom he teaches, and I'm not commenting one way or another about him or his course. The quote is from a website marketing an audio recording that bears the same name, the same logo (with different wording), and the same credentials as the person who hosts the DVD.

[buttermilkwise]

Okay if you guys don't want to listen to me and continue your flame war, then I am going to delete all recent flaming. You've all ruined this thread.

Here are some rules to help you.

1. If you can't say something nice about another member, don't say anything at all.
2. Argue with the facts. You have to debate the argument regardless of who is making it. If you simply attack the one making it, it shows that you either have no argument, or you're too dumb to counter his.
3. Don't respond when other people attack you. You'll look better off in the end.

not trying to detract from your post, but in your third point Pride is what initiates all these conflicts in the first place. I know i'm not speaking from a good position of credibility, but if you refrain out of a sense of pride to gain the moral high-ground nothing's really changed. I may not have participated in their flame war but I don't consider myself better than Sunflare, Snail, and J&J and want no one here to judge them less for doing so.

Oh and I believe all the talking points have been gone over, so at 13 pages there isn't going to be anything new excep re-hashing old material. Anyone who is considering joining the program will most likely decide within the first 5 pages anyway and ignore the rest.

[Sunflare]

BetheReds, That's why like 4 pages ago I said that all the points have been discussed, and that there's nothing else to discuss or even argue about, and that it's OK to agree to disagree.

Of course the flaming continued as usual anyway. Because of grudges from posters for like a dozen threads before this one.

For the record:

I was simply posting a response to the OP until the flaming started (on the very first page!!!) , with first tri, then monkeygone2, then kusojiji, then snailpoo and even cloudzero now with the trollbaiting.

This was happening since the first page when I was talking to Asian Playboy, not necessarily these ppl. That was when I responded with a flame of my own after five pages of posters attacking me instead of my viewpoint. That was my mistake, but I got tired of the personal attacks when I never started with anyone, with personal attacks or trollbaiting in the first place.

Over a DVD nobody actually watched.

Yes the deleted post is pretty much the same post as this one.

[snailpoo]

For the record:

I was simply posting a response to the OP until the flaming started (on the very first page!!!) , with first tri, then monkeygone2, then kusojiji, then snailpoo and even cloudzero now with the trollbaiting.

Part of the problem is that you constantly dismiss anything that disagrees with your point of view as "trollbaiting" even when there are a lot of substantive points backing that disagreement and when the majority of the board doesn't share your view.

Without having to watch the DVD, by your own standards that you posted, you would judge it wrong if the DVD was marketed a certain way (your post, your reasoning, your morality test), and when shown that the DVD and other similar items were marketed that way, you... ?

[Sunflare]

Part of the problem is that you constantly dismiss anything that disagrees with your point of view as "trollbaiting" even when there are a lot of substantive points backing that disagreement and when the majority of the board doesn't share your view.

Without having to watch the DVD, by your own standards that you posted, you would judge it wrong if the DVD was marketed a certain way (your post, your reasoning, your morality test), and when shown that the DVD and other similar items were marketed that way, you... ?

OK. Lets all then discuss this issue on perspective and viewpoints on APA topics in another thread so everyone else here can discuss this topic without further interruption and so we can come to a resolution to respect each other rather than flaming one another. We all have been flaming each other for months on a wide variety of issues. Now I think it's time for us to come to a fair and reasonable understanding.

Here's a link to a new thread I created for this purpose.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?p=563966#post563966

Thanks.

[Andrew Lin]

I think it's true that western women are somehow predisposed not to like Asian men. Just today I was playing poker online on facebook. In the whole table I had a lot more money than everyone else and I was winning. Then a white woman was automatically seated on the seat next to me. You would probably think that she would like me since I had a lot of money and was winning. But when she lost all her money and came back in, instead of sitting down in the same place, which is what happens automatically, she moved to another seat that was further away from me. The seat she moved to had no advantage, it was just one seat further away from me. I didn't say anything or do anything to provoke that response. The only thing I could think is she saw my face and saw that I was Asian, and so she felt the need to move away from me.

[SunWuKong]

^ i hope that was sarcasm. sometimes it's hard to tell online.

[cloudzero]

thats hardcore paranoia man, surously

[Banana]

Actually, gambling can make people really paranoid.

[eos]

Just today I was playing poker online on facebook.

I stopped reading after that sentence.

[Sunflare]

Andrew Lin,

I think there is a resentment or phobia concerning white women that you may need to let go.

Not saying it is wrong to have an attraction to white women, but seriously, get over the phobias you have over this. It will not help you, The mindset that you may have, to the contrary, it will cause white women to even be less attractive to you, if this is really the case with you.

In an attempt to explain this, the problem can be either due to the demographics of the area and the ppl in the area that you live in, or paranoia, or the way you are presenting yourself. Your dress, your expressions, and such. You know, your attitude and moods can show, in not just your behavior, but also your bodily expressions.

Personally where I live, like every single day, I see AMs dating all sorts of women. They are chased after by ladies of all ethnicities like they're mancandy or something. No exaggeration.

Hey it's the new millennium, the AM stereotypes are going into a reverse trend, now Asian men are indeed the shit. Even in the media now we see that happening, the fact that women are realizing that AMs are awesome men to date and are also successful in their lives - they make good lovers, definitely educated, and for the most part, hold down very successful careers. All these qualities makes us very, very attractive to white women and women of color.

And no I don't see such behavior as you described. Again it must be the demographics of the areas many posters live in. Personally, when I take mass transit or hanging out out or in school, I don't experience white women, Asian women, Latina women or black women exhibit this sort of reactionary behavior towards me, and I'm sure, other APA men, most of the time. Again it could be due to the particular demographics of where I live, in the big city.

You seem to have the blues, or are indeed suffering from phobias over white women. Realize that a persons mood can be shown in your behavior and bodily expressions without realizing it. That is generally not a turn on for women.

My suggestion to you is to dismiss these phobias out of your mind since you cannot change the whole world to solve these problems.

Instead, work on yourself to become more attractive, by improving on your dress, by working out, even getting dental work, etc. As far as the blues you're experiencing or the paranoia, seriously, all jokes aside, get yourself checked out by a psychologist or a psychiatrist. You have to start somewhere towards self improvement, right?

Here, I posted this cartoon before. I'll post it again for amusement:

http://www.asianweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/sa081005k.png

[j&j2]

Well, we'll never really know what the real deal is until Asian Playboy responds to clear things up on the issues here. Or watch the DVD itself and see what is actually contained in the DVD...

Again, the way the DVD is being marketed on the site is simply not "kosher.

Now with that cleared up, I guess Asian Playboy is using these labels to attract more interest to the product albeit not in the right way as many are saying here. Can't say what his prime target is, it's easy to to come to the conclusion that he is specifically marketing the DVD to white men with Asian female fetishes. Now if that is undeniably the case, then it's dead wrong but we cant say for absolutely sure.

It's wrong whether he's marketing the DVD specifically to WMs or to AMs (the fact that it's WMs or AMs doesn't change the fact that he is playing into/using AF stereotypes to push product).

Well there are some APAs, regardless of gender, who are not familiar with cultural commonalities in general.

Most WMs who date AFs really don't know anything substantial about Asian culture and yet, they don't have a hard time dating AFs (why would it be any different for an AM - going up to a girl and asking her out on date works whether she is Asian, white, black, etc.).

I disagree. You forgot that Asian women are subject to misconceptions and stereotypes that are unique only to APAs. Stereotypes and women does differ according to nationality and race.

Uhh, how is the fact that Chinese are stereotypically seen as being "dirty" by the Japanese going to help an AM score a date?

While there are different stereotypes for the various Asian ethnicities, the stereotypes for AFs (as well as AMs) pretty much are the same.

Anyway, I think we know enough to pass judgment on this specific issue (the way the DVD is being marketed) whether APB reappears to explain/defend himself.

Having discussed a no. of issues w/ APB previously, I think it's telling that he hasn't already come back to this thread.


Then a white woman was automatically seated on the seat next to me. You would probably think that she would like me since I had a lot of money and was winning. But when she lost all her money and came back in, instead of sitting down in the same place, which is what happens automatically, she moved to another seat that was further away from me. The seat she moved to had no advantage, it was just one seat further away from me. I didn't say anything or do anything to provoke that response. The only thing I could think is she saw my face and saw that I was Asian, and so she felt the need to move away from me.

Methinks you are reading a bit much into her seating change.


But anyway, as BeTheReds said, stick to the facts. You can start here

Still in DENIAL I see - lol!

The FACTS also point out that the gender disparity in favor of AFs is in the 1st generation AND in an older age group.

For US born or raised Asian-Ams, AMs actually outnumber AFs in the prime marrying ages.

The problem w/ SP is that he never puts the facts (when he actually uses them) in the correct CONTEXT.

[Sunflare]

Having discussed a no. of issues w/ APB previously, I think it's telling that he hasn't already come back to this thread.

LOL. How did I post this in the women's forum by mistake? Anyway let me just say that he did come back to view the thread last week, which was when betterasianman registered on this forum and posted a new thread in the women's forum (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?p=564163#post564163) to hear the woman's POV on this subject. I had a short PM chat with APB, that's why I know.

Edit: No, he did'nt try to sell me a bootcamp.

[snailpoo]

Still in DENIAL I see - lol!

The FACTS also point out that the gender disparity in favor of AFs is in the 1st generation AND in an older age group.

For US born or raised Asian-Ams, AMs actually outnumber AFs in the prime marrying ages.

The problem w/ SP is that he never puts the facts (when he actually uses them) in the correct CONTEXT.

:rolleyes:

As BeTheReds said, argue with facts. I've continually asked for your numbers. You never provide them.

[Banana]

I think the recent report about Asian American growth slowing down primary due to less immigration is a clear indication of this problem.

I've been saying for years that if the US cut off immigration or at least slowed it down by limited immigration (as per 9/11), the Asian community will be stunted. Maybe even regressing.

[BeTheReds]

What is all this information about FACTs that people want? Statistics? The CENSUS?

In the census, You can find marriage statistics, but you can't find dating statistics. If there are dating statistics they are hardly scientific, and usually the result of online polls or people asking their friends.

With that in mind, the marriage statistics, while seen as a HUGE disparity don't reflect 2nd Generation Asian-America very well. What they do show is that more Asian women are married to white men than white women are married to Asian men. But what percentage of those marriages are between white men and 2nd generation Asians? What percentage of those are between white men and women who they met in Asia (not in America). Given that there are US soldiers stationed in Korea and Japan, and that most of the military is male, does it not seem common sense that some of these men will marry and take their wives back to the US?

Could it be possible that this somewhat skews in statistics into showing a more pronounced disparity than what is actual?

I don't have the answers, but I'm just throwing that out there.

Any refutation of the idea I presented is appreciated.

[Dimeron]

I think the recent report about Asian American growth slowing down primary due to less immigration is a clear indication of this problem.

I've been saying for years that if the US cut off immigration or at least slowed it down by limited immigration (as per 9/11), the Asian community will be stunted. Maybe even regressing.

I think someone on this forum said this. If Asian immigrations stops tomorrow, the Asian Americans would breed themselves out of existence.

At least there is always Canada, we are still taking in immigrants since we will have negative population growth if we don't. Although the number of Chinese immigrants has dropped compared to couple years before.

[snailpoo]

What is all this information about FACTs that people want? Statistics? The CENSUS?

In the census, You can find marriage statistics, but you can't find dating statistics. If there are dating statistics they are hardly scientific, and usually the result of online polls or people asking their friends.


Well, yeah. You're stuck with the census. The problem with this whole thing is that its based a lot upon perception, and it's human nature that perception always magnifies problems. The only way to actually objectively view the phenomenon is with data, and since there isn't accurate dating data, the only approximate statistics is the marriage data from the census.

[BeTheReds]

Well I have not looked at the census data, but based on the fact that the US has troops in Korea and Japan I would bet that they show that Korean and Japanese women tend to marry out of their race more so than Chinese or Vietnamese women.

[Banana]

Are military personel in other countries included in the US national census?

I don't think they do.

[betterasianman]

...

and where the fuck is there a banner on reappropriate for this shit?),

...


It's on the reappropriate website homepage.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Damn it's been a long ass time.

While I personally feel like the whole idea of a class targeted toward Asian men seeking to learn the ropes to pick up women, or just the mere idea that there is actually a demand for this type of thing, is a bit sad and corny, I'd have to commend this asian playboy guy for at least doing something about the problem real or perceived instead of just sitting around and complaining.

And hey, if your technique works, it works. What can I say~

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Are military personel in other countries included in the US national census?

I don't think they do.
no but they eventually come home and some bring wives with them.

Well I have not looked at the census data, but based on the fact that the US has troops in Korea and Japan I would bet that they show that Korean and Japanese women tend to marry out of their race more so than Chinese or Vietnamese women.
At least one guy on the internetz thinks so --- he points out that the entire magnitude of the alleged Asian male/Asian female outmarriage imbalance is smaller than the migration of military and mail-order brides. His numbers seem to make sense:
http://www.geocities.com/sailerfraud/articles/ir_marriages.html

Back at the time of the 2000 census there were 400,810 more Asian women than Asian men in the country. This is likely due to immigration, since natural birth rates (even without sex-selective abortion) produce more men than women.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs/phc-t9/index.html

[j&j2]

As BeTheReds said, argue with facts. I've continually asked for your numbers. You never provide them.

You really can't be this OBTUSE.

I provided you w/ the nos., as well as the link to the stats a no. of times, including here (on a thread about a year and a half a go when you regurgitated the same old, misleading argument).

YOU eventually, grudgingly admitted your oversight (after looking over the linked stats).

(Didn't I already cover this? - must be your selective memory.)

Thanks for posting more lies and falsehoods.


With that in mind, the marriage statistics, while seen as a HUGE disparity don't reflect 2nd Generation Asian-America very well. What they do show is that more Asian women are married to white men than white women are married to Asian men. But what percentage of those marriages are between white men and 2nd generation Asians? What percentage of those are between white men and women who they met in Asia (not in America). Given that there are US soldiers stationed in Korea and Japan, and that most of the military is male, does it not seem common sense that some of these men will marry and take their wives back to the US?

Again, the Census data is broken down into stats for foreign-born Asians and native (US born) Asians (also broken down into US raised Asians - aka the 1.5 gen) so there is no problem distinguishing btwn the two groups.

For all Asians - the disparity in the IR marriage rates to whites is at a 3:1 ratio.

When looking only at US born/raised Asians, the disparity is at a 2:1 ratio, which is why I always stated that including the foreign-born, or 1st gen Asians was misleading since it is skewed due to mail order brides, military brides, etc. - nonetheless, the 2:1 disparity is still significant.


Back at the time of the 2000 census there were 400,810 more Asian women than Asian men in the country. This is likely due to immigration, since natural birth rates (even without sex-selective abortion) produce more men than women.

Correct - among the US born Asians, there is actually slightly more AMs than AFs in the prime marrying age groups.

[BeTheReds]

When looking only at US born/raised Asians, the disparity is at a 2:1 ratio, which is why I always stated that including the foreign-born, or 1st gen Asians was misleading since it is skewed due to mail order brides, military brides, etc. - nonetheless, the 2:1 disparity is still significant.





Forgive me, but I don't see how those numbers, 3:1 and 2:1 came about. From the page that Alibaba listed, I see nothing near 3:1 for all Asians (470,000 vs 200,000)...

[Sunflare]

Forgive me, but I don't see how those numbers, 3:1 and 2:1 came about. From the page that Alibaba listed, I see nothing near 3:1 for all Asians (470,000 vs 200,000)...

The 3:1 ratio whoever cited was the disparity ratio during the 1980's, not today I believe.

[snailpoo]

You really can't be this OBTUSE.

I provided you w/ the nos., as well as the link to the stats a no. of times, including here (on a thread about a year and a half a go when you regurgitated the same old, misleading argument).

YOU eventually, grudgingly admitted your oversight (after looking over the linked stats).

(Didn't I already cover this? - must be your selective memory.)

Thanks for posting more lies and falsehoods.

:rolleyes:

Says the guys who argues with insults, no facts, and NO LINKS. How many times have I asked you for your fiigures, and how many times have you not posted them or posted the wrong ones?

But I won't follow your example. Was the thread you were refering to THIS ONE? (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=33360&page=12) Where you failed to link any information while the census for Korean-Americans, found HERE (http://www.calstatela.edu/centers/ckaks/census/31303_table2.pdf) shows more Korean American women in each age year from 15 (guess when people start to date) onwards? And since men tend to marry younger women, that disparity grows even more. And since you've yet to provide 1.5 and 2nd generation statistics, take a look at this chart from those under 30 (people who are much more likely to be 1.5 and 2).

Do you have anything but insults and fantasies about the past?

[Sunflare]

Damn it's been a long ass time.

While I personally feel like the whole idea of a class targeted toward Asian men seeking to learn the ropes to pick up women, or just the mere idea that there is actually a demand for this type of thing, is a bit sad and corny, I'd have to commend this asian playboy guy for at least doing something about the problem real or perceived instead of just sitting around and complaining.

And hey, if your technique works, it works. What can I say~

Well if you think about it, there are dating coaching services that caters to those outside the APA communities too.

That being said, I am in full accord with you. Anything's better then sitting around doing nothing about our romantic lives, watching others pass by, with their love interests, while that man who has severe dating problems stays lonely and embittered. If a man has to attend a bootcamp to do something about it, then so be it.

[Banana]

Guys and gals,

He's just catering to the market and there is an appetite for this type of product. It'll be around until there is no demand. If you feel that his product isn't up to par, I suggest you offer a better one. As with any product, they'll manipulate or even lie to you to sell their product.

It's everywhere. In the latest ad for acne medication, they instill a fear that the girl won't date you if you have acne. Oh, you think that Asian Playboy makes Asian men look bad? Fine. What about acne medication ads that make people who have acne look bad by saying they're not worth dating?

I mean, c'mon, It's a given. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised at this.

EDIT: I wanted to add one extra comment that employs the most basic of common sense. If the outmarriage rate for AF was, say, 1%, do you think he would be able to push this product? No. However, the fear he is capitalizing on is REAL. Tons of Asian guys don't care if the outmarriage and outdating rate is 20%. 30%. 40%. Those numbers are pointless. All they know is that it's extremely high. High enough to warrant a panic.

This, in by itself, signifies the community is at a crossroad. Either acknowledge that this is indeed a problem and fix it -or- keep trying to pawn this as a non-issue to an audience that isn't receptive.

[cowbe]

95% of Asian girls I see dating White guys (in China/Taiwan/Aus) are not the types (Asians generally find attractive). I know this from personal experience as I have many Asian friends. One of the things we used to do is have a little fun and joke about how bad the Asian girls are that is usually with White men. Being Asian myself I know what "type" Asian men usually consider "HOT".

I also happen to have dated and know many "super attractive" Asian girls and 99% of them have all said they would not date white men. Maybe that’s why White men don't go for the super attractive Asian girls because it is an uphill battle and more often than not they fail miserably (I have seen some of my white friends go after them).

Humans generally prefer partners of the same race/background/culture. Attractive Asian girls always have good looking/ tall/ successful (meaning $$$) after them so it is no surprise they would prefer Asians - just like a super attractive white women would most likely prefer white men.

Now I explain why 95% of the Asian girls dating white men are "low-average" looking. First of all to the Asian men, she is low-average looking so the Asian guys who go for them are usually low-average as well. On the other side, White men tend to view them a LOT higher (I’ve seen quite often very bad Asian women with decent white me) and value them more. Those Asian girls then would date them.

I have asked many Asian girls whether or not they would consider dating a White guy. These are my findings:

95% (7+/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
70% (6/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
60% (3-5/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
50% (0-3/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.

You get the picture. Take a closer look next time at a mixed couple and you will find most of the Asian girls with white guys are very bad (or at least not the type Asians would go for).

[Napoleon Chynamite]

What about acne medication ads that make people who have acne look bad by saying they're not worth dating?

Same reason why people don't care if you make fat jokes but will frown upon a joke about Jews or black people. Obviously if the direct or indirect message involves an entire racial or ethnic group people are going to have more of an issue with it than a message that involves people that happen to have bad skin.

That's just the way it is. What about ugly people? What about short people? What about people that are just naturally more cognitively slower so they can't process certain bits of information as fast and function as effectively in society? You can argue that these people are victims too because they are discriminated against over something they have very very limited control over, but it's not nearly the same as race-based discrimination, if only because of the amount of history involved what with the systematic oppression and pseudo-scholastics that accompanied the aforementioned.

If you feel that his product isn't up to par, I suggest you offer a better one.

Offer a better one.....for what? My comment had less to do with the quality of his product and more about the message the marketing of such a product sends out. Honestly I have absolutely no idea about the level of quality or how up to par it is or the type of content or whatever. Maybe my pick-up game is lacking xD~ but I would imagine that any reliable techniques used in meeting or attracting women would apply to all men and not just Asian men.

EDIT: I wanted to add one extra comment that employs the most basic of common sense. If the outmarriage rate for AF was, say, 1%, do you think he would be able to push this product? No. However, the fear he is capitalizing on is REAL. Tons of Asian guys don't care if the outmarriage and outdating rate is 20%. 30%. 40%. Those numbers are pointless. All they know is that it's extremely high. High enough to warrant a panic.

Lol I think it's a better idea to continue our correspondence outside of YW, you know, when you're like....normal :cool: *rib*

I have asked many Asian girls whether or not they would consider dating a White guy. These are my findings:

95% (7+/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
70% (6/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
60% (3-5/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
50% (0-3/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.

Can you send me a graph outlining the results of this scientific endeavor as well as all of your lab notes and conclusive statement(s) so that I can have peace of mind. Thanks.

[Banana]

Now you're getting it.

The world is a horrible bitch goddess. In this case, the world is illogical and selfish and you must cater to it.

Either that or you can influence it but your social clout must be enormous. I think I've said it before that too many people refuse to believe that the huge majority of society is dumb and irrational. What makes it even more sad is when they try to change it.

It ain't changing, buddy.

[cloudzero]

So I'm in Cali for a week. And it turns out that IR is illegal here.

I wanted to add one extra comment that employs the most basic of common sense. If the outmarriage rate for AF was, say, 1%, do you think he would be able to push this product? No. However, the fear he is capitalizing on is REAL. Tons of Asian guys don't care if the outmarriage and outdating rate is 20%. 30%. 40%. Those numbers are pointless. All they know is that it's extremely high. High enough to warrant a panic.

Confucius says: IR does not affect the number of males and females that exist in the world. so either date me or die single.

[BeTheReds]

Tons of Asian guys don't care if the outmarriage and outdating rate is 20%. 30%. 40%. Those numbers are pointless. All they know is that it's extremely high. High enough to warrant a panic.


Never thought of it that way. Statistics or not, people are going to go with their own perceptions and fears..

This, in by itself, signifies the community is at a crossroad. Either acknowledge that this is indeed a problem and fix it -or- keep trying to pawn this as a non-issue to an audience that isn't receptive.
Well, issue or not, no fixing will ever take place. People will always be free to date and marry whomever they want.

[AngryABCGirl]

Never thought of it that way. Statistics or not, people are going to go with their own perceptions and fears..

Well, issue or not, no fixing will ever take place. People will always be free to date and marry whomever they want.

I think that's the crux of it. If anything by all indications the level intra-racial marriage and Asians marrying others in their ethnic group rather than interracial marriage amongst Asian Americans is the increasing trend rather than the latter... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030701841.html) but really no one cares about all that when they see an Asian with a white person. It's a matter of perception.

I've actually seen more Asian men with White women recently, I work in software engineer land so it's bound to happen, but I don't have that many doubts that men who are more insecure will disregard all these couples if he says one Asian woman with one White guy. Others won't even notice.

[j&j2]

Forgive me, but I don't see how those numbers, 3:1 and 2:1 came about. From the page that Alibaba listed, I see nothing near 3:1 for all Asians (470,000 vs 200,000)...

You can't get that from that page since it really only has a rudimentary breakdown/stats.

The 3:1 and 2:1 figures comes from a much more comprehensive data set (which, unfortunately, is no longer available online).

The 3:1 ratio whoever cited was the disparity ratio during the 1980's, not today I believe.

No - the 3:1 ratio is from the 2000 Census figures (but for all Asians and not just the US born/raised - which is what one should focus on w/ regard to the IR disparity).


Well, issue or not, no fixing will ever take place. People will always be free to date and marry whomever they want.

While we may never be able to prevent people from dating/marrying who they want to date/marry, changes can be made to the environmental factors (such as the media) which affect people's perceptions/attitudes w/ regard to race (and thus, change the view on their dating preferences).

A Harvard studied showed that BMs have the highest self-esteem w/ regard to their race + gender.

That wasn't the case for many, many decades here in the States where BMs had low self-esteem w/ regard to their race + gender.

The thing that caused the change was the shift in how the media portrayed BMs.

Again, I want to emphasize that this issue is bigger than just the IR disparity.

Changes can be made so Asian kids don't grow up hating themselves/their features, wishing to be white, thinking whites are superior, etc.

[j&j2]

But anyway, as BeTheReds said, stick to the facts. You can start here:

How 'bout the fact that I've been right and that you've been wrong, again and again?


As BeTheReds said, argue with facts. I've continually asked for your numbers. You never provide them.

Uhh, didn't I repeatedly state that I've provided them to you many a time in the past?

Is your (convenient) memory loss acting up again?


Says the guys who argues with insults, no facts, and NO LINKS. How many times have I asked you for your fiigures, and how many times have you not posted them or posted the wrong ones?

Uhh, it's not insults if what I say is TRUE - lol

How many times do I have to state that I had already provided you w/ the stats and links and that you had already looked at them in the past (tho, incorrectly as is your typical modus operandi) - and it appears that you finally found one of the threads where I provided the stats (so much for your claim that I never provided them to you).

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=33464


But I won't follow your example. Was the thread you were refering to THIS ONE? (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=33360&page=12) Where you failed to link any information while the census for Korean-Americans, found HERE (http://www.calstatela.edu/centers/ckaks/census/31303_table2.pdf) shows more Korean American women in each age year from 15 (guess when people start to date) onwards?

Didn't I already school you w/ regard to this?

I suggest you re-read what I posted previously again (below) and actually try to comprehend it for once before posting again.

Really, it's getting annoying having to attempt to teach the same (fairly simple) thing over and over again.

Uhh, most of us already know that the disparity in the IR rates for 1.5 gen Korean-Americans can be partly attributed to the high no. of predominantly female adoptees.

However, we see the same (roughly) 1:2 disparity among 2nd gen+ KAs (where there are actually MORE males than females) and among virtually all the other Asian ethnicities (whether 1.5 gen or 2nd+) where the pop. figures for males and females, ages 20-34, are roughly equal.

The one exception to this 1:2 disparity? Indians (desis) where the IR rates are roughly the same for males and females (about 20% for each).

As for the claim that there are significantly more AFs than AMs (approximately 430k more) – the overwhelming majority of them are OLDER AFs from the 1st gen. (ages 35-64) - not exactly the demographic that US born or raised Asian males, ages 25-34, are looking for.

I know this is hard for you sp – but THINK about it. In pretty MOST of the age/generation breakdowns, the nos. of AMs and AFs are about the SAME (with there actually usually being slightly more AMs) – the exceptions where females OUTNBUMBER males are in older 1st gen females, ages 35-64 (who fit the profile of war brides, mail-order brides, etc.) and for 1.5 gen females ages 30-44 (women who fit the profile of adoptees) – for 1.5 gen ages 20-29, there are slightly more males than females (as there would be w/o any additional factors such as adoptees).

Really, that whole “there are more AFs than AMs” is really a “red herring” argument based on sp's usual superficial and sloppy “analysis”.

First of all, even with the whole Korean adoptee factor, there are actually MORE 1.5 gen males (574,894) than females (568,182), including MORE 1.5 gen males than females ages 20-29. However, there are more 1.5 gen females ages 30-34 (nearly all Korean).

It seems that sp has extrapolated the higher no. of females in the 1.5 gen Korean pop. to all the Asian ethnicities for the 1.5 gen. (tsk, tsk – very sloppy).

Second, in ALL of the age groups for 2nd+ gen – there are MORE males (760,859) than females (748,897).

I really wonder where sp comes up with the claim that there are more 2nd gen females than males other than his sheer stubbornness and irrationality (esp. since he had already cited that there are more 2nd gen Korean males than females)?

However, there are approximately 450k more 1st gen women than men.

Males / females

1st gen

2,534,354 / 2,987,328

1.5 gen

574,894 / 568,182

2nd

760,859 / 748,897

I also gave you the facts here...

The no. of Asian-American males and females who are 1.5 gen (that's those who came to the US before the age of 14, btw) is roughly the SAME (according to the 2000 Census, there were 137,887 1.5 and
2nd+ gen Korean females and 122,369 1.5 and 2nd+ gen Korean males - hardly a big difference, with the bulk being the difference in the 1.5 gen due to adoptees; and overall, there are actually MORE 1.5 AND 2nd+ gen Asian males than females).

It's funny how sp keeps harping about the no. of young Korean-Am women when I (1) already explained that the bump in the 1.5 gen for Korean-Am women is due to adoptees; (2) for 2nd gen+ Korean-Ams, the males actually outnumber the females and for both 1.5 and 2nd gen, the females outnumber the males by just 15k; and (3) the fact that there are more 1.5 gen Korean-Am females than males is inconsequential for the issue at hand since we are talking about the IR disparity for all Asian-Ams, 2nd gen+ as well as 1.5 gen, and for all Asians, the males actually outnumber the females (the 2:1 disparity pretty much holds true for every East Asian ethnicity; Indians, otoh, don't really have a disparity).

And since men tend to marry younger women, that disparity grows even more. And since you've yet to provide 1.5 and 2nd generation statistics, take a look at this chart from those under 30 (people who are much more likely to be 1.5 and 2).

Do you have anything but insults and fantasies about the past?

Hello? I did provide the 1.5 and 2nd gen stats (look above) as well as the link a no. of times previously - both here and elsewhere (such as here:

Please (lol!!!) - like you haven't seen these stats before...

http://www.proudasianamerican.com/St...M06-2000US.htm

http://www.proudasianamerican.com/St...F06-2000US.htm

(unfortunately, the site is no longer in operation)

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=33360&page=23

So much for the "argument" (once again) that the disparity (within the US born/raised group) is simply due to the greater nos. of AFs.

Talk about fantasy... (the only fantasy here is you repeatedly thinking I didn't provide you w/ the data and you repeatedly thinking you are correct, despite what the data says - lol!)

And really, how many more times do I have to repeat this (people, don't be surprised if we have this "debate" once again in another year and half)?

[snailpoo]

:rolleyes: If you're going to argue old crap and pretend, at least try to pick up where you ran away last time. Obviously that the data you cited, now that the site is down (now convenient for you), DID NOT say what you think it said.

Did you notice that:

1. This is not specific to Koreans, the one with the highest disparity percentage (you were trying to prove my Korean example wrong, remember?) And the reason why I specifically focus on the Koreans is simple: Koreans have the highest rates of outmarriage. Why? According to Proudasianamerican, while there are 67,075 2nd generation Korean women over the age of 15 as compared to 71,036 2nd generation Korean men over age of 15 (http://www.proudasianamerican.com/Statistics%20Folder/ACS/Tables/MS-M46-ACS.htm) and there are 102,098 1.5 generation Korean women over the age of 15 as compred to only 82,820 1.5 generation Korean men over age of 15.

10% is not a big difference? Funny. How does the 10% translate into the dating disparity you whine about?


2. Can you show me where the 2000 PUMS has codes for 1.5 or 2nd generation, or provide crossreferences between race, age, and year of entry?

3. Proudasianamerican's own 2004 data analysis that shows a much smaller disparity?

4. Have you noticed yet how none of what you've said and laughed about ever actually answers, refutes, or even addresses:

Sticking with our example of Koreans, 48% of the women raised here are married to whites, but so are 23% of the men. Again, are there enough men? You claim that there are only 14k more females than males, yet, the census figures for just Koreans show that there are more than that. Proof? There are 8k more Korean boys than Korean girls under the age of 13. When you consider that offset against the number of Korean girls above the age of 13, you get an even bigger differential, (and that's just the kids, ALL of whom are young enough to be considered 1.5 to 2nd generation). When you add in all the age categories above 13, where there are more women than men, you get a much higher number. And remember, the kids 13 and younger aren't dating yet.

Finally, and most importantly, of the complaints about the outmarriage rates posted here, the vast majority are based upon casual, VISUAL OBSERVATIONS. Let me ask you, of the people who who complained about seeing the lopsided ration, did they differentiate 1.5 and 2nd generation from non-natives? Did they go up to each couple to ask? Or did they just see the couple, and make a mental note? And given that non-natives outnumber born and raised, and given that Asians are younger than average (try looking at actual census figures before using your war brides argument), which are the observers more likely to see, non-natives or born and raised?

And did you notice that second question? You've never provided data that supported what you said, and so I keep asking for data direct from the census... and you... NEVER provide it, all the while carrying on pretending, pretending, pretending.


EDIT: I wanted to add one extra comment that employs the most basic of common sense. If the outmarriage rate for AF was, say, 1%, do you think he would be able to push this product? No. However, the fear he is capitalizing on is REAL. Tons of Asian guys don't care if the outmarriage and outdating rate is 20%. 30%. 40%. Those numbers are pointless. All they know is that it's extremely high. High enough to warrant a panic.

This, in by itself, signifies the community is at a crossroad. Either acknowledge that this is indeed a problem and fix it -or- keep trying to pawn this as a non-issue to an audience that isn't receptive.

The fear is real, but is the problem that fear is based upon as big as the fear makes it seem, and is the extent of people's reactions justified by the size of the problem?

A long time ago, on a different and much younger board, teens had this fear and started posting crap that only intensified the fear: AMs will die out, all AF were race traitors, AM will never date AFs (You know the idiocy that gets posted among teens who magnify the fear amonst themselves). As you said, the fear is real, but does it justify those fears? There's a point where such fears get magnified so much that people will actually stop doing anything to solve the problem. That's bad too.

The amusing part of this is j&j2 objected to me telling those kids that the situation wasn't as bad as they thought it was and that they should probably log off and try to do something about their fears... and he's stalked me ever since.

[Banana]

Confucius says: IR does not affect the number of males and females that exist in the world. so either date me or die single.

That's true for the world over.

However, it will and is having a real affect for Asians in America. If you have an outmarriage rate of 35% on a consistent basis, it will eat into the community's ability to replicate itself. Now, when those outmarriages have children, the odds of them of them marrying out increases.

I'm sure everyone here knows how to calculate compounding interest, yes?

So, you have news that the Asian American community is growing. How is that possible? Oh, it's immigration. I speculated that if the government ever halted or slowed immigration, the community would essentially have a standstill or slow down accordingly.

About a few months ago, there was a sample census that showed Latino and Asian American growth hitting a "surprising halt." Why is it surprising when, in the same article, it stated that America has significantly slowed down immigration after Sept 11th?

[cloudzero]

That's true for the world over.

However, it will and is having a real affect for Asians in America. If you have an outmarriage rate of 35% on a consistent basis, it will eat into the community's ability to replicate itself. Now, when those outmarriages have children, the odds of them of them marrying out increases.

I'm sure everyone here knows how to calculate compounding interest, yes?

So, you have news that the Asian American community is growing. How is that possible? Oh, it's immigration. I speculated that if the government ever halted or slowed immigration, the community would essentially have a standstill or slow down accordingly.

About a few months ago, there was a sample census that showed Latino and Asian American growth hitting a "surprising halt." Why is it surprising when, in the same article, it stated that America has significantly slowed down immigration after Sept 11th?

are you afraid you don't fall above the 35 percentile of the more attract AMs? i mean when you have met a few of these dudes that walk all funny, sound all feminine, and never cut their nails, you'll find it hard to give a fuck anymore. why do you keep torturing yourself by coming into these threads? time spent NOT thinking about it is the better time in your life. kicks in the face are expected from walking in the streets and watching tv. but hey its never perfect.

[j&j2]

are you afraid you don't fall above the 35 percentile of the more attract AMs? i mean when you have met a few of these dudes that walk all funny, sound all feminine, and never cut their nails, you'll find it hard to give a fuck anymore. why do you keep torturing yourself by coming into these threads? time spent NOT thinking about it is the better time in your life. kicks in the face are expected from walking in the streets and watching tv. but hey its never perfect.

I don't think that's banana's point.

His point is that if immigration from Asia were to stop - due to the high rate of IR marriage (well, to whites), that eventually "Asian-Americans" will cease to exist and that our descendants will all be "whites" who just happen to have 1/16th or 1/20th Asian ancestry.

[j&j2]

If you're going to argue old crap and pretend, at least try to pick up where you ran away last time. Obviously that the data you cited, now that the site is down (now convenient for you), DID NOT say what you think it said.

LOL!!!

You are simply nuts! And in complete DENIAL!

We already HAD this same discussion - OVER and OVER mind you.

And as for the site being down (sorry, I don't think I had anything to do w/ that) - what does it matter, since the previous posts includes the relevant stats?

Furthermore, YOU have already LOOKED at that site and the stats (previously) and you didn't have anything to say to counter them.


And did you notice that second question? You've never provided data that supported what you said, and so I keep asking for data direct from the census... and you... NEVER provide it, all the while carrying on pretending, pretending, pretending.

Mr. Obtuse - how many times do I have to give you the stats?

Males / females

1st gen

2,534,354 / 2,987,328

1.5 gen

574,894 / 568,182

2nd

760,859 / 748,897

See?

Actually more 1.5 gen males (574,894) than females (568,182) within the prime marrying ages (more on that later), as well as more 2nd gen males (760,859) than females (748,897).

Otoh, the problem w/ the stats you picked out (other than it being just for Koreans, which doesn't apply to the other Asian ethnicities) - 1.5 and 2nd gen Korean males and females over the age of 15 is that it includes people in their 50s, 60s, 70s and so on.

At those age groups, there are less men then women b/c men tend to die at a younger age. Duh!

Otherwise, males naturally outnumber females (slightly) up to a certain age since males are born at a slightly more frequent rate than females. Duh!

Which is why when looking at the nos. of males and females, we need to restrict it to the prime marrying ages - ages 17 to 40. Duh!

This is just another prime example of your superficial and sloppy "analysis."

Again, I noted that there are more 1.5 Korean-Am females than males from ages 17 to 40 due to the adoption factor (where roughly 5 out of every 8 adoptee was female), but I also pointed out that there are actually more 2nd gen males than females within the age criteria.

You have an amazing "talent" for "analyzing" things in the "big picture" or the "small picture" (which leads to a misleading and incorrect conclusion) and not in the "correct picture" (correct context).

YOU - first "poo poo" the whole disparity thing by saying that it is due to there being significantly more AFs than AMs (i.e. - the wrong "big picture").

ME - I correctly point out that such difference in nos. is due to there being many more 1st gen women then men (war brides, mail order brides, etc.) who tend to be in the older age bracket (30s and 40s).

And that the correct population stats to look at would be for the 1.5 and 2nd+ gen pop. - where AMs actually outnumber the AFs.

(Note: I say this even tho by not including the 1st gen warbrides, etc., the disparity rate decreases from a 3:1 ratio to a 2:1 ratio; since by including warbrides, etc. - the disparity rate gets skewed higher artificially.)

YOU - then look at the percentages of IR marriages to whites for the 1.5 and 2nd gen (btw, from the link that no longer works) for the various Asian ethnic groups and you state the disparity isn't significant being only 20%.

ME - I point out to you that the disparity is actuality a 2:1 ratio (or a 100% difference) (simple math mistake - you subtracted the percentages from each other - i.e. - 40% - 20% = 20%, instead of putting them in ratio form).

YOU - silence on that front.

YOU - spurned on two fronts already, change your focus once again and narrowly focus by picking out the stats for 1.5 and 2nd gen Korean-Ams which show that there are more females than males over the age of 15 (i.e. - the wrong "small picture").

ME - pointing out that the stats for Koreans are irrelevant since 1.5 and 2nd gen AMs btwn the ages of 17-40 still outnumber their female counterparts.

YOU - having difficulty grasping this concept

ME - explaining that the fact that there are more 1.5 gen Korean-Am females than males (due to the adoption factor) does NOT extrapolate into there being more 1.5 and 2nd gen AFs btwn the ages of 17-40.

YOU - obviously having difficulty grasping this concept or forgetting all about it repeat the same futile argument about Korean-Ams again and again (nevermind also repeating the misleading argument about there being many more AFs than AMs).

Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Really, I feel like Bill Murray's character in "Groundhog Day."

[j&j2]

A long time ago, on a different and much younger board, teens had this fear and started posting crap that only intensified the fear: AMs will die out, all AF were race traitors, AM will never date AFs (You know the idiocy that gets posted among teens who magnify the fear amonst themselves). As you said, the fear is real, but does it justify those fears? There's a point where such fears get magnified so much that people will actually stop doing anything to solve the problem. That's bad too.

The amusing part of this is j&j2 objected to me telling those kids that the situation wasn't as bad as they thought it was and that they should probably log off and try to do something about their fears... and he's stalked me ever since.

What's amusing is you not mentioning me correcting those guys (actually, just a few posters who just happened to post about numerous times) -

i.e. -

THEM - AFs are all "sellouts" and just want WMs

ME - NO, 45% of 1.5 and 2nd gen AFs marry AMs (w/ the percentage being significantly higher for the 1st gen); also, just b/c an AF is w/ a WM, doesn't mean she is a "sellout" (also applied to AMs).

THEM - AMs can't get WFs/WFs don't want to date AMs

ME - NO, about 22% of 1.5 and 2nd gen AFs marry AMs (w/ the percentage going as high as 30% for Koreans and Fils).

THEM - AMs can't compete w/ WMs/AMs are naturally weaker

ME - NO, that's incorrect on both fronts - AMs just have to work harder to compete; and there are plenty of AMs who are "built" (link to photos and videos), as well as AMs doing very well in gymnastics and weightlifting competitions at the Olympics.

...etc., etc.

So as you can see, I've been combating both extremes w/ actual RELEVANT FACTS.

And sorry, don't get so flattered/bigheaded - I'm not "stalking" you.

I'm merely CORRECTING the erroneous, misleading "analysis" you happen to spew over and over again (really, it's getting tiresome - but people shouldn't be misled by amateurs like you).

You're hardly the only person that I've had to inform/educate/correct, but you certainly are the only person that I've had to do so over and over and over again.

[cloudzero]

I don't think that's banana's point.

His point is that if immigration from Asia were to stop - due to the high rate of IR marriage (well, to whites), that eventually "Asian-Americans" will cease to exist and that our descendants will all be "whites" who just happen to have 1/16th or 1/20th Asian ancestry.

oh boo hoo, millions in the usa compared to billions in asia. its like looking for something to complain about.

[Sunflare]

Wow. You guys are discussing this issue down to a science, complete with statistics and everything. This is extremely funny.

[snailpoo]

Mr. Obtuse - how many times do I have to give you the stats?

See?

....
Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Really, I feel like Bill Murray's character in "Groundhog Day."

Well, you should given that you never actually do what you claim. Where is your citation for your stats? Where is your age break-down? Every single time we argue this, you consistantly fail to give where you got your numbers and, most importantly, how you break them down by age. Every single time, we consistently show that there are MANY MORE AMS under the age of 15, all of whom are, by definition, 2nd generation or 1.5 generation than AW, which would skew your claims on the numbers of 2nd gen and 1.5 marriage age THAT YOU NEVER PROVIDE.

Did you notice the difference between your posts and mine? I ACTUALLY JUST QUOTED WHAT I WROTE LAST TIME, COMPLETE WITH STATISTICS. SOMETHING YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED, MONTHS LATER. You are unable to answer WHILE you complain about repeats.

But what's new? You wash, rinse, repeat, until you realize that you're unable to actually support your claim and disappear for a few months only to pop up on a new thread, and start pretending away. I really do like your attempts at summaries, though. Pretend, pretend, pretend. :rolleyes:



What's amusing is you not mentioning me correcting those guys (actually, just a few posters who just happened to post about numerous times) -

And when the whiners actually realized that maybe they should log off and head outside, what did you say to them?

Oh right, wasn't it along the lines of it girls will always prefer a WM over AMs?

There's a reason why people really disliked you over there.

[Banana]

You still don't get it.

I've had no personal issues. It's not about *me* and my personal outlook on life; it's about the overall picture that extends far beyond myself. Again, me as opposed to Asian Americans.

Also, you can't tell me to stop complaining about an issue of poverty in Africa by saying people in the US aren't starving on the same scale.

[cloudzero]

aside from what you do in real life. what are you accomplishing by participating in IR threads on YW?

[j&j2]

oh boo hoo, millions in the usa compared to billions in asia. its like looking for something to complain about.

What do Asians in Asia have to do w/ the Asian-American community?

It's like saying "boohoo" if the African-Am community disappears b/c there still hundreds of millions in Africa (except it likely won't).

Really, what a nonsensical response.

aside from what you do in real life. what are you accomplishing by participating in IR threads on YW?

No more or less than you.

[j&j2]

Well, you should given that you never actually do what you claim. Where is your citation for your stats? Where is your age break-down? Every single time we argue this, you consistantly fail to give where you got your numbers and, most importantly, how you break them down by age. Every single time, we consistently show that there are MANY MORE AMS under the age of 15, all of whom are, by definition, 2nd generation or 1.5 generation than AW, which would skew your claims on the numbers of 2nd gen and 1.5 marriage age THAT YOU NEVER PROVIDE.

My GOODNESS!!

Now, I'm beginning to think that you have some mental disorder, aside from having a bad memory and a super case of pig-headedness.

How many times do I have to state that I already gave the link for the stats (more than a few times) on the proudasiannation site (not only here, but on the other board as well)? - which you looked at b/c that's where you came up w/ the 20% disparity rate (by subtracting the percentages).

Not only that, I posted the nos. here (again many a time).

Males / females

1st gen

2,534,354 / 2,987,328

1.5 gen

574,894 / 568,182

2nd

760,859 / 748,897

As you can see, these are quite specific figures - such as having been taken from the proudnationasian site which ran a PUMS (public use microdata samples) on the Census data.

Uhh, being under the age of 15 isn't the dictate for being 1.5 gen, it's having immigrated to the US at age of 13 or younger.

And aren't you contradicting yourself (hardly surprising)?

You are saying that there are "many more AMs" than females under the age of 15, which totally supports what I've been saying all along - that there are actually more 1.5 + 2nd gen AMs than AFs (btw, it's not "many" more, we're only talking about 18k more males than females).

Did you notice the difference between your posts and mine? I ACTUALLY JUST QUOTED WHAT I WROTE LAST TIME, COMPLETE WITH STATISTICS. SOMETHING YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED, MONTHS LATER. You are unable to answer WHILE you complain about repeats.

OMG!!

You truly have a mental defect.

1. I've actually quoted a lot more than you (of what I had written previously), including the stats that I had provided.

2. Who cares about the stats that you provided for they are IRRELVANT (more 1.5 gen KAFs than KAMs) or INCOMPLETE (the fact that there are about 460k more AFs than AMs has to do w/ the the disparity in the genders within the 1st gen due to warbrides, etc.)?

Heck, I don't dispute those stats at all (other than your erroneous inclusion of all 1.5 and 2nd gen Korean-Ams over the age of 15, which includes 50, 60, 70+ year olds) - but that still doesn't change the fact that there are more 1.5 + 2nd gen AMs than AFs in the prime marrying ages).


But what's new? You wash, rinse, repeat, until you realize that you're unable to actually support your claim and disappear for a few months only to pop up on a new thread, and start pretending away. I really do like your attempts at summaries, though. Pretend, pretend, pretend.

Uhh, sorry - but you have a heavy case of DENIAL and need to take a hard look in the mirror.

I've addressed (and corrected) everything you stated (more AFs than AMs argument, more 1.5 gen KAFs than KAMs argument) - otoh, you have been awfully silent to counter what I had stated, other than repeating the same old stuff over and over again (more AFs than AMs, more 1.5 gen KAFs than KAMs).

And when the whiners actually realized that maybe they should log off and head outside, what did you say to them?

Uhh, I stated that they needed to stop blaming everything on their being Asian and work out some, dress a little better, etc.

Oh right, wasn't it along the lines of it girls will always prefer a WM over AMs?

There's a reason why people really disliked you over there.

I see your crappy memory is acting up again.

I've always stated that the % of AFs who only date AMs is a minority, but a significant enough one where it has become a topic for magazine/newspaper articles (including Asian women publications), for talk shows (such as the Tyra Banks Show - where a show on the prejudices that IR couples face do not show an AM/xF couple, but focuses on how some AFs don't want to associate w/ other Asians and refuse to date AMs), as well as being a topic of research for academics. (Heck, banana even linked to a couple of articles on this thread - http://www.uci.edu/features/2009/04/feature_datingandrace_090421.php?theme=0 and http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/relationships/24298/dating-101-dealing-with-the-race-factor;_ylc=X3oDMTNuNXVtc2NsBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDMj E0MjI3MzMxNARrA0RlYWxpbmcgV2l0aCB0aGUgUmFjZSBGYWN0 b3IEc2VjA2ZwX3RvZGF5BHNsawNkYXRpbmctMTAxLWRlYWxpbm ctd2l0aC10aGUtcmFjZS1mYWN0b3IEenoDYWJj - and I have written about and linked to a good no. of other studies - which I'm sure you read and comprehended correctly like you usually do - lol!).

I always stated that nearly half of the 1.5 and 2nd gen AFs end up marrying AMs and that many who do end up w/ WMs don't exclude AMs, as well as stating that more than 20% of 1.5/2nd gen AMs end up marrying WFs (btw, which is part of the bigger issue of many Asians, both male and female, putting whites on a "pedestal" or having an inferiority complex about being Asian - one which I have reiterated time and time again).

Let's face it, you have NOTHING but your crappy memory.

And oh, btw, I was quite popular on that other site (not that it matters) w/ those who had common sense and good judgment.

Otoh, I did have issues w/ deluded or misinformed peoples such as yourself and that Pakistani-Canadian guy who didn't know that his former Chinese-Canadian GF totally looked down on East AMs (or that Fil girl who totally bashed on East AMs and put BMs on a pedestal, not to mention all the WMs).

And speaking of the Chinese-Canadian GF, on another site (geared to AFs), I eventually got her and some of her GFs to disown their previous assertion that AMs were "short, weak and effeminate" amid all the attacks from angry AMs calling them "sellouts"/"CCBs" and others labeling AMs as POS (such as the Fil gal) - whereby, she and her GFs thanked me for being even-handed and patient, as well as being the most intelligent poster there (I've already stated this for you numerous times, but then again, regarding your selective memory, it was all for naught and hence, I have to repeat myself once again).

[monkeygone2]

GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY.

[cloudzero]

What do Asians in Asia have to do w/ the Asian-American community?

It's like saying "boohoo" if the African-Am community disappears b/c there still hundreds of millions in Africa (except it likely won't).

Really, what a nonsensical response.

they sure as hell aint sitting in a forum making it worse by telling the world their problems. informing people who didnt know about it in the first place. no one wants AMs, wow what a great way to introduce AMs to teen females who just reached puberty



No more or less than you.

i was talking to banana

[snailpoo]

Not only that, I posted the nos. here (again many a time).

Males / females

1st gen

2,534,354 / 2,987,328

1.5 gen

574,894 / 568,182

2nd

760,859 / 748,897


*Yawn* Already addressed and answered.

Well, you should given that you never actually do what you claim. Where is your citation for your stats? Where is your age break-down? Every single time we argue this, you consistantly fail to give where you got your numbers and, most importantly, how you break them down by age. Every single time, we consistently show that there are MANY MORE AMS under the age of 15, all of whom are, by definition, 2nd generation or 1.5 generation than AW, which would skew your claims on the numbers of 2nd gen and 1.5 marriage age THAT YOU NEVER PROVIDE.

Did you notice the difference between your posts and mine? I ACTUALLY JUST QUOTED WHAT I WROTE LAST TIME, COMPLETE WITH STATISTICS. SOMETHING YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED, MONTHS LATER. You are unable to answer WHILE you complain about repeats.

But what's new? You wash, rinse, repeat, until you realize that you're unable to actually support your claim and disappear for a few months only to pop up on a new thread, and start pretending away. I really do like your attempts at summaries, though. Pretend, pretend, pretend. :rolleyes:
.

Since you're too dense to comprehend the first few hundred times we went over this, and since you can't understand it now, look at your numbers yet again.

Your numbers of 1.5 and 2nd generation AMs and AFs, WITHOUT age breakdowns, seem to have a close number of AMs and AFs. (And you NEVER PROVIDE a citation or an age breakdown for those numbers) HOWEVER, whenever you go to the breakdown, BY AGE, of AMs and AFs on any census site (we can even use the one you provided (http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs/phc-t9/index.html), there are MANY MORE AMS UNDER THE AGE OF 15 than AFS, and since the vast majority of them, by definition are 1.5 or 2nd generation, that means, of the numbers you quote, there must be fewer 1.5 and 2nd generation AMs than AFs.

If you really wish to prove me wrong, provide the PUMS codes.

Uhh, being under the age of 15 isn't the dictate for being 1.5 gen, it's having immigrated to the US at age of 13 or younger.


Do you seriously bother even looking at the data? 15 is just the dipping point. Subtract out the excess numbers of AMs between the ages of 14 and 15, and you... STILL HAVE A greater number of AMS under the age of 13, meaning that of the numbers you gave WITHOUT age breakdowns, there is a far greater number of AFs over the age of 18 (the ones who get married), and since women marry at a younger age then men, that differential is magnified.

Seriously, I'm not going to bother addressing anything new until you can finally, after how many years, address this simple and basic point.


Let's face it, you have NOTHING but your crappy memory.

And oh, btw, I was quite popular on that other site (not that it matters) w/ those who had common sense and good judgment.

MY crappy memory? I'm sorry, without having to even go into how you ran away from threads only to return months later to snipe at me from another one as you hope no one else remembered how you couldn't answer points (a habit you're starting to repeat here, above) or how you were threatened with banning for waiting until WHEN I WASN'T EVEN AROUND to create threads dedicated to refute me, just look at your second sentence about my "crappy memory".

Funny isn't it? Right there, you admit that you only had a very few people, and definitely not the majority, who thought you had a clue, because, obviously, only those very few (but rarely posted any support) who supported you have "good judgement," right? :rolleyes:

Thanks for the morning laugh. :biggrin:

[SunWuKong]

That's true for the world over.

However, it will and is having a real affect for Asians in America. If you have an outmarriage rate of 35% on a consistent basis, it will eat into the community's ability to replicate itself. Now, when those outmarriages have children, the odds of them of them marrying out increases.

I'm sure everyone here knows how to calculate compounding interest, yes?

So, you have news that the Asian American community is growing. How is that possible? Oh, it's immigration. I speculated that if the government ever halted or slowed immigration, the community would essentially have a standstill or slow down accordingly.

About a few months ago, there was a sample census that showed Latino and Asian American growth hitting a "surprising halt." Why is it surprising when, in the same article, it stated that America has significantly slowed down immigration after Sept 11th?

i've seen this issue brought up in many online discussion about IRs. and it's always seem kind of disingenuous to me.

if the real concern here is ensuring the "survival" of the Asian American community, there are at least several topics of discussion in addition to just IR, but the interest in discussing IR is so much stronger, and it's almost always in the context of Asian women marrying out, when in fact, past the 1st gen., certain ethnicities of Asian American men have IR rates that aren't exactly low either - but granted they are still lower than that of Asian American women.

so where are all the discussions about keeping immigration open, and supporting law makers that support more immigration from Asia? where are all the discussions about how we as a community can be more accepting of mixed Asians so that they are less likely to marry out? where are all the discussions about how we can encourage inter-ethnic Asian marriages? etc etc.

[snailpoo]

if the real concern here is ensuring the "survival" of the Asian American community, there are at least several topics of discussion in addition to just IR, but the interest in discussing IR is so much stronger, and it's almost always in the context of Asian women marrying out, when in fact, past the 1st gen., certain ethnicities of Asian American men have IR rates that aren't exactly low either - but granted they are still lower than that of Asian American women.

I have to agree. If it is the issue of survival, then the focus should be on the percentage of AMs outmarrying, NOT AF.

Banana,

One huge reason why you will have many more AFs outmarrying than AMs is that there are many more AFs than AMs. It's a simple fact, and not one predicated upon survival. If "survival" was the concern, then you'd concentrate on the marriage rates on the fewer AMs.

Even J&J2 doesn't dispute that for the overall asian population, the greater number of AFs is a large factor in the outmarriage rates. And since, J&J2 refuses to provide a citation for the number of 1.5 and 2nd generation AFs and AMs over marriage age, I will.

From the overall male population age breakdowns, found here (http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs/phc-t9/tables/tab05.txt), you have a total of 5,779k AMs. Now, we're only interested in the ones of marrying age, so, we're going to subtract everyone 19 and younger, leaving us with 2,899k AMs. Next, we head over to the age breakdown of foreign born Asians found here (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/foreign/p20-534/tab0301.txt) and subtract the number of foreign born AMs above the age of 20 thereby eliminating all of the 1st generation AMs from our number. We end up with 891k AMs above the age of 20 who are not 1st generation .

Repeating for AFs, we start here again (http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs/phc-t9/tables/tab06.txt) with 6,120k AFs, and subtracting everyone 19 and younger, we end up with 4,352k AFs. Heading back to the age breakdown for foreign born Asiansfound here (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/foreign/p20-534/tab0301.txt), and subtracting the number of foreign born AFs above the age of 20, we end up with 1,008k AFs above the age of 20 who are not first generation.

Of course you're going to see more AFs dating non-AM. There are more AFs. And while there is a high outmarriage rate among 1.5 and 2nd generation AFs, there is an almost as high outmarriage rate among 1.5 and 2nd generation AMs, but because there are more 1.5 and 2nd generation AFs and AMs, that can be expected.

Again, if the question is about survival, the focus would be on the outmarriage rate of the fewer AMs, not the outmarriage rate of the more numberous AFs. And since the focus is not, we go back to whether or not the problem is as big as the fear makes it.




*Of course these numbers include Asians beyond 2nd generation, but so I think did the dating percentages (and the argument about assimulation). Of course, if any one can tell me how to use the census winnow the numbers even further, I'm game.

[cloudzero]

where are all the discussions about how we as a community can be more accepting of mixed Asians so that they are less likely to marry out?

It's not that simple. Don't forget that mixed Asians dot necessarily have to look Asian at all. That certainly does NOT encourage inter-ethnic marriage, or even mixed Asian - Asian marriage. It's pretty self-contradicting.

where are all the discussions about how we can encourage inter-ethnic Asian marriages? etc etc.

The issue of marriage stems from the issue of dating. I've been trying to push a discussion on how to be a good mediator on un-brainwashing AFs from trends of American society and dispel the false promises of superior offsprings. You'd be amazed how receptive they can be. but when i try address inter Asian socializing barricades in its simplest form, I'm not taken seriously. Remember the look away thread?

[snailpoo]

*Of course these numbers include Asians beyond 2nd generation and exclude 1.5 generation Asians above the age of 20, (the argument about assimulation, media, culture should apply even more heavily to this group). Of course, if any one can tell me how to use the census winnow the numbers even further, I'm game.

Fixed. Those numbers I quoted exclude 1.5 generation.

[BeTheReds]

It's not that simple. Don't forget that mixed Asians dot necessarily have to look Asian at all. That certainly does NOT encourage inter-ethnic marriage, or even mixed Asian - Asian marriage. It's pretty self-contradicting.



I can't really be sure of what you're saying, but it appears that what you mean is that we shouldn't be more accepting of mixed Asians because they don't all look Asian... is that right? Correct me if I am wrong.

Next you say that "that" does not encourage inter ethnic or mixed Asian-Asian marriage.

What is "that"? Is it mixed Asians not looking Asian, or is it just being accepting of mixed Asians?

I'd like to have a conversation about this but I'd like you to clarify what you meant first before I go apeshit on you. (haha, just kidding)

[betterasianman]

Banana,

Activism is a practice that recommends direct vigorous action in support of, or opposition to, one side of a controversial issue. (definition provided by Merriam-Webster)

To be an activist, all you have to do is recommend a course of action or ideology. This can be done for free, or "with a bill involved," to use your terminology.

Charging money for something is unrelated to whether or not it is or is not an activist action (i.e., an action that involves recommending something).

-William


I just have to agree with two things. This stopped being "activism" once there was a bill involved. If you wish to help and actually care about others, it's supposed to be free.

[cloudzero]

I can't really be sure of what you're saying, but it appears that what you mean is that we shouldn't be more accepting of mixed Asians because they don't all look Asian... is that right? Correct me if I am wrong.

Next you say that "that" does not encourage inter ethnic or mixed Asian-Asian marriage.

What is "that"? Is it mixed Asians not looking Asian, or is it just being accepting of mixed Asians?

I'd like to have a conversation about this but I'd like you to clarify what you meant first before I go apeshit on you. (haha, just kidding)

no, im not saying we shouldn't be accepting of mixed asians. but to expect it to encourage love toward asians, from mixed hapas and AFs, is unrealistic. White looking hapa with AA does not encourage it. Half looking hapa with AA does not encourage it. This goes for AFs and AMs. sorry, expressing myself verbally is not one of my strengths.

[BeTheReds]

no, im not saying we shouldn't be accepting of mixed asians. but to expect it to encourage love toward asians, from mixed hapas and AFs, is unrealistic. White looking hapa with AA does not encourage it. Half looking hapa with AA does not encourage it. This goes for AFs and AMs. sorry, expressing myself verbally is not one of my strengths.

So you're saying that we should accept mixed Asians as Asians, but mixed Asians dating full blooded Asians does not encourage Asians to love Asians?

[cloudzero]

not so much the blood but more of the look. in this superficial world, such a relationship will still encompass the kick in the face and suggest hapa superiority.

[BeTheReds]

So for the betterment of the community, Hapas should not date Asians?

[AngryABCGirl]

There is so much fail here. 17 pages in fact.

[Banana]

Heh. Well, 12 pages of it is nothing but a word salad argument between J&J and Snailpoo.

And to respond to SWK and Snailpoo, the population example was just one factor that comes from the IR issue. Other residual issues include self confidence, gender discussions, etc. The reason why I brought up the population size issue is because it's a much more tangible example and it's an issue that seems to be more out of our control.

IE: I have a much more difficult time affecting immigration law than I do dating preferences.

[applehead]

i don't know who to give the
"funniest post ever" award to;
monkeygone's post # 137 or snailpoo's post #143.

[eos]

i don't know who to give the
"funniest post ever" award to;
monkeygone's post # 137 or snailpoo's post #143.

Girl, I had to actually go back like 10 pages for those posts. Sad.

And yeah it's hard to pick which one is more funny: neg karma vs. coheranty. Hmmm....

[Sunflare]

Post # 27. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=563481&postcount=27) Now that was funny. I was laughing my ass off.

[monkeygone2]

Post # 27. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showpost.php?p=563481&postcount=27) Now that was funny. I was laughing my ass off.

I laughed my ass off when it was pointed out to him that she NEVER said any of those things.
He never disputed it and never corrected himself. Now that was funny.

I didn't laugh when I made my point that Asian women should be of concern. Women may find this type of lying and half truths an annoyance, since they are hit on everyday, anyway. But Asian women, in particular, may experience a more zealous form of admiration in social situations, whether they want it or not.
I don't feel like finding his post, but he responded by saying Asian women will be ok and can handle it...
Hmm... he got his panties in a knot when he mistakenly thought people were suggesting that Asian men will be ok and can handle it.

[Sunflare]

I laughed my ass off when it was pointed out to him that she NEVER said any of those things.
He never disputed it and never corrected himself. Now that was funny.

I didn't laugh when I made my point that Asian women should be of concern. Women may find this type of lying and half truths an annoyance, since they are hit on everyday, anyway. But Asian women, in particular, may experience a more zealous form of admiration in social situations, whether they want it or not.
I don't feel like finding his post, but he responded by saying Asian women will be ok and can handle it...
Hmm... he got his panties in a knot when he mistakenly thought people were suggesting that Asian men will be ok and can handle it.

Well I can't dispute the fact that according to the mystery method, which is the method taught in the bootcamps, the suggestion is made that the pick up artist has to carry himself as an actor.

Personally, I don't agree with that particular.

The man instead, in my opinion, should be genuine with his romantic interest. This is why it is so important that the man works on himself to improve on outlook, personality, and attitude. Also as the saying goes, it is not good to lie because it will catch up with you in the end.

I think where another of the problems are with the bootcamps is that it does not help students to be able to successfully handle long term relationships with the opposite sex. that's a definite flaw as well.

There's more flaws with the mystery method that I can point out that I don't think was discussed in detail, but I'll stop here.

But still, the bootcamps has its benefits too. Which comes to what buttermilkwise was essentially saying:

That regardless of what the bootcamps is designed to do and regardless of it's flaws . . .

That there are many men out there who are socially stunted for a variety of reasons who can benefit from the bootcamps. They will need help to be able to learn to be more sociable and become better at dating women. That's where the bootcamps can come in for such individuals so they can do just that and hopefully gain insight on dating from it.

[kusojiji]

there are many men out there who are socially stunted for a variety of reasons who can benefit from the bootcamps.


You have season tickets, don't you?

[Sunflare]

You have season tickets, don't you?

No.

[snailpoo]

Thank-you, thank-you. I'll be here all week. Try the veal, and don't forget to tip your waiter.

[contra_diction]

Well I can't dispute the fact that according to the mystery method, which is the method taught in the bootcamps, the suggestion is made that the pick up artist has to carry himself as an actor.

Personally, I don't agree with that particular.

The man instead, in my opinion, should be genuine with his romantic interest. This is why it is so important that the man works on himself to improve on outlook, personality, and attitude. Also as the saying goes, it is not good to lie because it will catch up with you in the end.

I think where another of the problems are with the bootcamps is that it does not help students to be able to successfully handle long term relationships with the opposite sex. that's a definite flaw as well.


I finally read The Game: The Secret Society of Pick-Up Artists by Neil Strauss out of sheer curiosity. It's an autobiography of sorts following Neil Strauss aka Style as Mystery takes him under his wing. Style becomes what could be argued as the best PUA, but ironically only finds "love" and perhaps a lasting relationship by not using any of the methods taught to him in boot camp and lauded by the PUA community.

I only mention this because the author's admission of how he found "the one" goes along with what you're saying about the boot camp being a disingenuous short term solution to a long term problem. I suppose one could argue, however, that only by going through the boot camp did Mr. Strauss find the confidence and the circumstance to meet the right girl.

[cowbe]

I don't know why you guys care so much.

95% (7+/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys. (other 5% is neutral etc)
70% (6/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
60% (3-5/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
50% (0-3/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.

You get the picture. Take a closer look next time at a mixed couple and you will find most of the Asian girls with white guys are very bad (or at least not the type Asians would go for).


I have never been to the US but that seems to be the case at Australia/Taiwan/China.

[Sunflare]

I don't know why you guys care so much.

95% (7+/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys. (other 5% is neutral etc)
70% (6/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
60% (3-5/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.
50% (0-3/10) girls: Would not consider dating White guys.

You get the picture. Take a closer look next time at a mixed couple and you will find most of the Asian girls with white guys are very bad (or at least not the type Asians would go for).


I have never been to the US but that seems to be the case at Australia/Taiwan/China.

This information based on your observations in Asia does not apply to the dating scenario in the U.S. and other countries outside Asia.


I finally read The Game: The Secret Society of Pick-Up Artists by Neil Strauss out of sheer curiosity. It's an autobiography of sorts following Neil Strauss aka Style as Mystery takes him under his wing. Style becomes what could be argued as the best PUA, but ironically only finds "love" and perhaps a lasting relationship by not using any of the methods taught to him in boot camp and lauded by the PUA community.

I only mention this because the author's admission of how he found "the one" goes along with what you're saying about the boot camp being a disingenuous short term solution to a long term problem. I suppose one could argue, however, that only by going through the boot camp did Mr. Strauss find the confidence and the circumstance to meet the right girl.Well I can't dispute the fact that according to the mystery method, which is the method taught in the bootcamps, the suggestion is made that the pick up artist has to carry himself as an actor.

Personally, I don't agree with that particular.

The man instead, in my opinion, should be genuine with his romantic interest. This is why it is so important that the man works on himself to improve on outlook, personality, and attitude. Also as the saying goes, it is not good to lie because it will catch up with you in the end.

I think where another of the problems are with the bootcamps is that it does not help students to be able to successfully handle long term relationships with the opposite sex. that's a definite flaw as well.

Never read that particular book by Neil Strauss, only read one of his publications. I'm going to look for it in the bookstores and check it out.

But yeah that's my concern too. The mystery method coined by Neil Strauss and taught in the ABCs of attraction bootcamps does work, but as you said, it's only a short term solution to a long term problem. It has it's limits and flaws but also has its' benefits.

[cowbe]

Well I am assuming you are talking about the "ABC's" in the US as I would be quite sure the "Asian Asians- the ones that can speak an Asian language fluently" would fall under the statistics I provided.

I think one of the problems with ABC's is that they forget who they really are. I have a few ABC friends in Australia who can only speak English and nothing else. I have also come across an ABC girl who use the term "You are so Asian etc" (I told her maybe look at the mirror :). ABC's needs to have a proper look at themselves that they are ASIAN and not white and take pride in being ASIAN.

Failing that, ABC's will not only be "taken" as not being part of the group by White people but also by Asian Asians.

[Sunflare]

Well I am assuming you are talking about the "ABC's" in the US as I would be quite sure the "Asian Asians- the ones that can speak an Asian language fluently" would fall under the statistics I provided.

I can't deny that obviously for many reasons, many more Asians in Asia date Asians. However you need to realize that many Asian immigrant ladies in the U.S. also date outside their race in high numbers. But it is nowhere as high a trend as it is with Asian American women fully assimilated into American society.

And no I wasn't talking exclusively about ABCs in my comment. I was speaking about APAs of different nationalities in general.

ABC's needs to have a proper look at themselves that they are ASIAN and not white and take pride in being ASIAN.


I'm one of those ABCs who is not swayed by the pressures of the American status quo to comform to the model minority image and who are very proud of their Asian heritage. Many others on this board are too.

100% ABC and damn proud of it.

[SunWuKong]

closing!

please direct further discussions to this thread:
http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=36481