A Racial Criteria: Love, Family and Long-Term Consequences

[Sunflare]

http://www.discovernikkei.org/forum/en/node/2776

A Racial Criteria: Love, Family and Long-Term Consequences
Submitted by editor on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 16:12.
Identity


A Racial Criteria: Love, Family and Long-Term Consequences
By Leah Nanako Winkler

Now, more than ever, we have the technology and freedom to manufacture and accommodate the specificity of our chosen families and social networks. In a mix-match world of diversity, tolerance, racism and cultural cluelessness, is love really blind when it comes long-term commitments? Or is it just a matter of social comfort?

A little less than two years ago, I flew to Missouri and became an egg-donor to an interracial, infertile couple seeking to make a part-Asian baby. Although I am in the dark about the outcome of the procedure, the thought that I technically may have a biological son or daughter living somewhere in Kansas City slightly irks me from time to time. This hypothetical child crosses my mind as I often wonder if he/she will ever know that his/her genes were meticulously chosen from a pool of applicants. I was picked because my genetic make-up just so happened to match a certain criteria idealized by his/her parents to fit their familial needs, a racial criteria.

Since the beginning of time, human beings have migrated towards other human beings who possessed similar qualities to their own. Although every circumstance is different, as a species, when it comes to relationships, we tend to be attracted to familiarity and comfort as opposed to things that are scary and foreign (unless we're on vacation and exoticism kicks in). That is why mixed-race children are still somewhat of a minority. However, minorities are no exception to this rule, as we also tend to reach out and find one another among the masses.

Za Martohardjono meets me at a bar in Prospect Heights. Sporting a shaved head, long-sleeved shirt and tennis shoes under baggy jeans, Za is inexplicably beautiful and seemingly androgynous. To respect Za's wishes, I will not be referring to Za using the term "he" or "she" in this article, but simply by using Za's name alone. Za grew up in Queens to an Indonesian mother and Italian-American father. Being a mixed race person who also happens to be a member of the queer culture, for Za, the subject of having children is especially complicated. Over a Corona and a glass of wine, we discussed our thoughts on family and racial upbringing.

"I've had conversations about that thought," says Za, "How complicated it would be for me to have a kid just because it would be such a conscience decision what that child's race background would be."

"Oh, because you would get to choose," I assume.

"I would have to choose. Well, not that I especially would have to choose. I think everybody does choose, but not everybody talks about it as a choice. People talk about it as kind of like- oh we just came together da da da- and maybe they don't put into perspective like what feels comfortable to them in terms of the race of their partner. A lot of that just gets overlooked. If your partner is the same race as you maybe it just feels like, well of course, and there's no question."

Although we are technically free to date whoever we're attracted to here in America, segregation is sometimes voluntary. Innumerable white women have only dated white men and vice versa. Many Asian men will only consider marrying an Asian woman and vice versa. Whether it's articulated, for every race, there are more than a handful of people who consider matching skin color to be an important factor when pairing up and building a home. This criteria plays into their rules of reproduction. Although I can't recall if I've ever met a biracial person who is racially selective when it comes to mating, as a hapa, I'm addled as to what my role is when it comes down to all of this. I know in the back of my mind that my sheer existence destructs the very notion of racial preservation and hold a certain pride in this involuntary accomplishment. On the other hand, I crave a sense of racial community to a degree that can be slightly obsessive. My desire to make the biracial identity "whole", rather than "half" by societal standards often spirals out of control to the point where I have repeatedly analyzed in my head the following scenario:

1. I reproduce with a man who possesses the same racial make-up as myself, Japanese and German American.
2. This act of mating results in me conceiving many children who are Japanese and German American as well. Thus, I would have a family of Germanese-American people.
3. One of my Germanese-American children grows up to become president.
4. He/she enforces a law that every living Germanese person must make mating with other Germanese people a priority when it comes to love and family.
5. Within ten years we have our own country called Gerpanamerica. Every citizen of Gerpanamerica speaks three languages and I am queen.

Then again, thinking about it always gives me a headache. I go over the logistics of Gerpanamerica in my mind as Za brings up another interesting point.

"I think that sometimes mixed race couples also fall into another territory that is really problematic. That kind of exoticism or attraction just because they are different from you or they're not white. Or whatever it is."

Za's comment makes me question the certain level of exoticism that unites a number of interracial couples. I wonder what my own father was thinking when he brought my ex-hippie Japanese mother to rural Ohio in the 1970's to meet his family for the first time after they eloped. Was it radical blind love or was my father just always specifically into Asian women (I've found him google searching hot Asian babes on the family computer countless times during my adolescence)? When his family praised her unfamiliar Asian features did he feel like he'd accomplished something? When they "jokingly" called her derogatory names after she sunbathed and became tan, did he defend her or laugh along because it was considered harmless? Are issues like that still relevant today? Yes and no. Interracial love is definitely not as taboo as it was considered when my mother was getting married. However, our mainstream-marketed "post-racism" world makes it often difficult for mixed-race couples to understand the complicated nature of their own foundation.

Children of mixed race couples are often the target of simultaneous glorification and rejection by if not just one (which is more than enough), multiple racial communities. This glorification/rejection cycle follows us continuously from our childhood into our adulthood. I think of Teddy Hose, my fellow Germanese friend who grew up in Westchester. He once told me a story of how he was walking back to his friend's place when he was twelve-years old and noticed two kids sitting against a brick wall staring at him. Teddy didn't know how or why they spotted him but out of nowhere, they yelled, "Hey! Sushi and Meat-loaf don't mix!"

In contrast, I remember being considered somewhat of a commodity in Japan where many hapa children were models and actresses. On the first day of summer school when I entered my classroom in Shimabara, my peers gawked at me through the glass windows of the school hallway as if I were a celebrity just because I looked American. They attempted to communicate with me in broken English even though I was fluent in Japanese, making me feel like a true gaijin. However, when I actually moved to America, my Kentuckian fourth grade classmates would mock me in "ching chong" gibberish when I wore a yukata for heritage day. I had magically transformed from being perceived as an American cowgirl to a scared Asian girl in a new world. How does this seesaw swing of extremes tend to affect us long -term?

"I guess the conclusion I came to," Za explains, "is if I were to adopt a child, that would be a difficult choice for me because it’s personally important for me to have a mixed race child or a child of color just because I would want to feel a certain sense of affinity with my child. I would want be able to, in moments of crisis tell them what it was like for me and be able to be there for that kid the way that my parents weren't in some ways. For my mom, being Asian in largely European communities was definitely an experience of otherness, but then I am careful to remember moments where she in fact told me, like, oh… well you didn't know about this or that because you’re white. You know? And there was such a feeling of rejection of where I felt I was coming from and how complicated it was for me that it made me realize oh, she has had these experiences but ultimately she doesn't see me that way. And I was really resentful towards her. I was angry for a while."

Although the notion of love surpassing all racial differences is beautiful and something I believe to be completely achievable, it's definitely still complicated and unfortunately has the potential to become problematic. Love, especially interracial love takes certain strength and nurturing to make it work long term. Hidden underneath martial bliss is the threat of a mixed-race child ultimately having to "pay" a harsh and unfair debt to society for their parents' cultural differences and boldness. Even though these factors shouldn't matter, we cannot overlook the fact that societal prejudices still do exist. A vast majority of the world holds the notion of racial preservation at a high regard and would do anything to keep it that way. Times have changed, but we still do not live in a post-racism world, although we like to believe in it. So where does that leave us? The best that we can do, although I'm not one to preach, is to be bold and love blindly but be aware and cautious of its social consequences. And as for the hypothetical baby I helped make out there somewhere in Kansas City, I hope


Comments?

[kimpossible]

Was it radical blind love or was my father just always specifically into Asian women (I've found him google searching hot Asian babes on the family computer countless times during my adolescence)?

ugh. lunch coming back up. pass the brain bleach, please. aside from that, like many articles of the like all the emphasis is on the mix with white mates and never really considers an Asian mate. just saying.

i don't think we, meaning spouse and self, really stress about the interracial issues all that much. if anything i think we're not much different from anyone else as far as i can tell. maybe we are and i don't see it? but main concerns are usually job, health, budgeting, investments, etc. race is probably near the bottom of a long list. cultural differences might be low to middle on the list. if anything parenting is always at the top.

[Sunflare]

I think this portion of the article rings a definite bell of truth:

Children of mixed race couples are often the target of simultaneous glorification and rejection by if not just one (which is more than enough), multiple racial communities. This glorification/rejection cycle follows us continuously from our childhood into our adulthood.

I seen other hapas, and blasians especially, time and time again deal with the internal strife and identity dilemmas caused by rejection from one or both racial groups that defines their dual heritage.

I'm still dealing with the bullshit that comes with it with each day.

If anything, reading those two sentences helped me alot in reinforcing my stance on why I went through what I went through as a child into teenagehood, and still have to deal with today, as an adult.

If I can relate if at all, to the exoticism that the author is talking about, it's in the way I have to interact with non-Asian monoracial persons who are really in my business concerning my multicultural heritage without sincerity.

Seriously, everytime I meet someone new, the conversation always seem to start in many cases with the person asking me 'Where am I from?' 'Oh wow. You have a Chinese name .... but you don't look Chinese.. =/'

I swear I feel like telling the person: 'I'm from America, you dickhead.'

'Hello. I am not a part X, part X hybrid freak wonder of nature. I have a fucking name you know. And I was born in Brooklyn, not some exotic far away third world country. Now change the subject or STFU.'

[popculturepooka]

New and exciting: she is saying is that interracial love/lust has positive but mostly negative social results that aren't fair.

If I can relate if at all, to the exoticism that the author is talking about, it's in the way I have to interact with non-Asian monoracial persons who are really in my business concerning my multicultural heritage without sincerity.


It's actually the opposite in my experience. It seems like it's always the Asian monoraical person that is all up in my business.

"OMG, you're Japanese too? How did that happen? You speak Japanese? Oh, how cool, I wish I could speak Japanese! Is it your mom or your dad? Your dad? WTF?! That's uncommon. I mean seriously, how often does that happen?! Haha, that's cool I guess. But, seriously, I'm just saying that it's normally WM/AF so it's uncommon for black and dasians to get together and it's even more uncommon for an AM/BF. I have never seen one in real life, now that I think on it. Oh, I"m sorry, that's really insensitive. It's just that it's so rare, you know what I mean? That's cool that your in touch with your Asian side. It seems like most black people don't care about their non-black side, but you're different, right? So, you're kinda like Obama, huh? Don't you hate how they only call him African-American? So do you like Asian women? I mean, it's totally cool if you do, I just want to know. (Ad nauseum)."

[kimpossible]

Obviously, the universe fully intended to ram my previous words back down my throat. Here's a somewhat interesting scenario for you all to chew on, should you like to do so.

While I am all for my son developing his own identity at his own place the decisions we make as parents will have direct and indirect affects on that development. Case in point: choosing a new place to live. Did that open up the flood gates. I'll present the heart of the matter.

Child is male. About 2/3 Asian. Name is Asian, Chinese on Dad's side. More or less looks mixed, maybe favors Asian than not. Hard to tell cause I'm his mom. I think he looks obviously part Caucasian. Anyhow, it brought up opposing parenting perspectives. Dad thinks son is Chinese guy, gonna go through life as a Chinese guy even around Chinese. Mom says, whoah, he's mixed and I don't really think you get what it's like to be part Asian trying to integrate into all Asian groups. Dad says he understands that (*cough* bullshit *cough*) but what I don't really get is that son is Chinese and male. Not Taiwanese but still Chinese, followed up by some imperial assimilation something or other Han Chinese for the win, blah, blah, blah, there's no way he will become an ABC.

Which brings me to one big question. For all of us how important is it to be around other Asians as we grow up? I say VERY. I would go beyond that and say it's important to see Asians with each other.

[Sunflare]

New and exciting: she is saying is that interracial love/lust has positive but mostly negative social results that aren't fair.



It's actually the opposite in my experience. It seems like it's always the Asian monoraical person that is all up in my business.

"OMG, you're Japanese too? How did that happen? You speak Japanese? Oh, how cool, I wish I could speak Japanese! Is it your mom or your dad? Your dad? WTF?! That's uncommon. .

I'm going to have to admit, I had the same experience among other Asian people, same questions.

I mean seriously, how often does that happen?! Haha, that's cool I guess. But, seriously, I'm just saying that it's normally WM/AF so it's uncommon for black and dasians to get together and it's even more uncommon for an AM/BF. I have never seen one in real life, now that I think on it. Oh, I"m sorry, that's really insensitive.

*pffft* Tell me about it. I did have other Asians, male and female, accuse me of having yellow fever because I dated many Asian women in my life. Such bullshit.

The shit that really annoys me about such blatently offensive comments such as what you experienced is not just because I don't look Asian enough to be satisfy their criteria as to who should be granted the privilage of dating AFs, but because they realize that I am hapa yet they *still* give me this nonsense. Having a Chinese name certaintly does'nt help, BTW.

But yeah, its been worse in my case with whites more than anything else. Got it from a black dude too once, he was interrogating me saying, "What's up with me and Asian women anyway?" .... when I am technically mostly Asian, 75% to be exact.

It's just that it's so rare, you know what I mean? That's cool that your in touch with your Asian side. It seems like most black people don't care about their non-black side, but you're different, right? So, you're kinda like Obama, huh? Don't you hate how they only call him African-American?

Yep. Same shit here.

I really don't get people's attitudes on IR on this one because first: What the hell is wrong with a blasian wanting to get in touch with his or her Asian heritage? Second: There are hardly any BM/AF couples out there to begin with. It's not like the phenomonon is fucking up an AM's dating game or nothing. No competition.

So do you like Asian women? I mean, it's totally cool if you do, I just want to know. (Ad nauseum)."

I would have told them I'm a hapa asiaphile and damn proud of it.

Which brings me to one big question. For all of us how important is it to be around other Asians as we grow up? I say VERY. I would go beyond that and say it's important to see Asians with each other.

Short, sweet, straight to the point. I agree.

Dad thinks son is Chinese guy, gonna go through life as a Chinese guy even around Chinese. Mom says, whoah, he's mixed and I don't really think you get what it's like to be part Asian trying to integrate into all Asian groups. Dad says he understands that (*cough* bullshit *cough*) but what I don't really get is that son is Chinese and male. Not Taiwanese but still Chinese, followed up by some imperial assimilation something or other Han Chinese for the win, blah, blah, blah, there's no way he will become an ABC.

Nowadays I would think too that it would be best to have the child fully understand their position on their heritage and not be pulled in two over identity issues.

In essense all in all, from the comments, I have to say, I experienced bias from all ethnicities of people straight across the board because of how I choose to identify myself, and for the sake of this discussion, my dating preferences.

[AngryABCGirl]

Child is male. About 2/3 Asian. Name is Asian, Chinese on Dad's side. More or less looks mixed, maybe favors Asian than not. Hard to tell cause I'm his mom. I think he looks obviously part Caucasian. Anyhow, it brought up opposing parenting perspectives. Dad thinks son is Chinese guy, gonna go through life as a Chinese guy even around Chinese. Mom says, whoah, he's mixed and I don't really think you get what it's like to be part Asian trying to integrate into all Asian groups. Dad says he understands that (*cough* bullshit *cough*) but what I don't really get is that son is Chinese and male. Not Taiwanese but still Chinese, followed up by some imperial assimilation something or other Han Chinese for the win, blah, blah, blah, there's no way he will become an ABC.

Wow reality is gonna really rear its ugly head. I think your kid should totally grow up with a huge Asian American community though. Judging by the way everyone who doesn't seems to turn out, it's the way to go.

Topic got me thinking such a bunch of my friend are getting married and popping babies, I wonder what our kids will be like since they're either 2nd gen from 1.5 gen-ers (which in my opinion is a already a totally different animal than say our immigrant parents), or are going to be 3rd gen from people like myself. A bunch of them are actually multi-Asian mixes and a few hapas. Identity will be such a different thing for them growing up.

[Chooky]

That's uncommon. I mean seriously, how often does that happen?! Haha, that's cool I guess. But, seriously, I'm just saying that it's normally WM/AF so it's uncommon for black and dasians to get together and it's even more uncommon for an AM/BF.


That is so true. I've dated black women and the responses when Asians have seen us have ranged from outright rude ignorance (like the lady at the grocery store that informed us in broken English that "you shouldn't be together!") to comical slack-jawed stares. Worse, though is the fact that not a few of these kinds of responses have come from Asian-Americans not just recently arrived Asian immigrants (whom you might expect to have less racial sensitivity), which I find a little disturbing.

[popculturepooka]

Obviously, the universe fully intended to ram my previous words back down my throat. Here's a somewhat interesting scenario for you all to chew on, should you like to do so.

While I am all for my son developing his own identity at his own place the decisions we make as parents will have direct and indirect affects on that development. Case in point: choosing a new place to live. Did that open up the flood gates. I'll present the heart of the matter.

Child is male. About 2/3 Asian. Name is Asian, Chinese on Dad's side. More or less looks mixed, maybe favors Asian than not. Hard to tell cause I'm his mom. I think he looks obviously part Caucasian. Anyhow, it brought up opposing parenting perspectives. Dad thinks son is Chinese guy, gonna go through life as a Chinese guy even around Chinese. Mom says, whoah, he's mixed and I don't really think you get what it's like to be part Asian trying to integrate into all Asian groups. Dad says he understands that (*cough* bullshit *cough*) but what I don't really get is that son is Chinese and male. Not Taiwanese but still Chinese, followed up by some imperial assimilation something or other Han Chinese for the win, blah, blah, blah, there's no way he will become an ABC.

Which brings me to one big question. For all of us how important is it to be around other Asians as we grow up? I say VERY. I would go beyond that and say it's important to see Asians with each other.

Are you talking Asians or Asian-Americans? Or does it even matter?
I think it's really important, if not I would've just grown up as a normal acultural meltingpoth-ish American kid, not that there's anything in particular that's wrong with that, it would just seem like a waste when I could've been brought up in a awesome bi (tri) cultural household.

Agreed on the second part, too. Perception has a huge impact on how we think and/or act, it's important to see a normal, functioning, loving Asian family.

That is so true. I've dated black women and the responses when Asians have seen us have ranged from outright rude ignorance (like the lady at the grocery store that informed us in broken English that "you shouldn't be together!") to comical slack-jawed stares. Worse, though is the fact that not a few of these kinds of responses have come from Asian-Americans not just recently arrived Asian immigrants (whom you might expect to have less racial sensitivity), which I find a little disturbing.

First off, you get like +1000 cool points from me.
Second, it's even more ironic that it's Asian-Americans (as you stated) who seem to have the most issues. With Asian immigrants it seems they are like just suprised about the fact, but with Asian-Americans some seem to get so overly inquistive to the point of just bald faced ignorance, insensitivity, and even a mild touch of prejudice.

[Sunflare]

Second, it's even more ironic that it's Asian-Americans (as you stated) who seem to have the most issues. With Asian immigrants it seems they are like just suprised about the fact, but with Asian-Americans some seem to get so overly inquistive to the point of just bald faced ignorance, insensitivity, and even a mild touch of prejudice.

That's a tough call concerning APAs vs. Asian immigrants.

Asian Americans seem to be more aware in regards to touchy multicultural identity issues, such as this, then Asian immigrants, that's for sure. So for many APAs, the way they may interact with persons of dual heritage will vary, in a positive way, or in a negative way. Unfortunately, many APAs, unlike Asians overseas, are adversely affected by the racism that exists in America, so I would'nt be suprised if this generalization was to be fact.

As far as Asian immigrants, from personal experience, they can be really rude or very genuinely inquisitive about a hapa's dual heritage. Again, it depends. Usually, I rarely had problems with APAs challenging me over how I choose to identify myself. Maybe it's just how people within my social circles are like, I have to admit, they are very aware when it comes to hapa identity issues.


That is so true. I've dated black women and the responses when Asians have seen us have ranged from outright rude ignorance (like the lady at the grocery store that informed us in broken English that "you shouldn't be together!") to comical slack-jawed stares. Worse, though is the fact that not a few of these kinds of responses have come from Asian-Americans not just recently arrived Asian immigrants (whom you might expect to have less racial sensitivity), which I find a little disturbing.

I can symphathize with you.

One time while commuting home from Manhattan I observed a BM/AF couple on the train ( A rarity where I live ). I noticed that many of the people on the train were giving the same nasty looks you were describing. Actions that you would not see out of people if they just happened to be in a presence of a WM/AF couple. It just seems so hypocritical to me.

I see this alot.

[BeTheReds]

Obviously, the universe fully intended to ram my previous words back down my throat. Here's a somewhat interesting scenario for you all to chew on, should you like to do so.

While I am all for my son developing his own identity at his own place the decisions we make as parents will have direct and indirect affects on that development. Case in point: choosing a new place to live. Did that open up the flood gates. I'll present the heart of the matter.

Child is male. About 2/3 Asian. Name is Asian, Chinese on Dad's side. More or less looks mixed, maybe favors Asian than not. Hard to tell cause I'm his mom. I think he looks obviously part Caucasian. Anyhow, it brought up opposing parenting perspectives. Dad thinks son is Chinese guy, gonna go through life as a Chinese guy even around Chinese. Mom says, whoah, he's mixed and I don't really think you get what it's like to be part Asian trying to integrate into all Asian groups. Dad says he understands that (*cough* bullshit *cough*) but what I don't really get is that son is Chinese and male. Not Taiwanese but still Chinese, followed up by some imperial assimilation something or other Han Chinese for the win, blah, blah, blah, there's no way he will become an ABC.

Which brings me to one big question. For all of us how important is it to be around other Asians as we grow up? I say VERY. I would go beyond that and say it's important to see Asians with each other.


Y'know Kim, this isn't the first time I've heard you talk about your husband denying that his son is mixed. Since I don't totally know everything about your situation, I'd say he was in denial or something. On top of that even if your son does identify with Asians and his biraciality is really rather secondary (as your husband seems to be expecting) he is throwing more expectations upon that.... (i.e. "he's not going to grow up to be ABC")

I think you know better than us all that parental guidance only goes so far, and how we identify and percieve ourselves is due largely to wants, desires, and life experiences. In the end, your son is going to be something that probably neither of you imagined. I think you are certainly more prepared for that than your husband is (from the way you are describing things...)

All that aside.. I think it is important that he is raised in a diverse area, not necesarily in one that is majority Asian....

I think this portion of the article rings a definite bell of truth:



I seen other hapas, and blasians especially, time and time again deal with the internal strife and identity dilemmas caused by rejection from one or both racial groups that defines their dual heritage.

I'm still dealing with the bullshit that comes with it with each day.

If anything, reading those two sentences helped me alot in reinforcing my stance on why I went through what I went through as a child into teenagehood, and still have to deal with today, as an adult.

If I can relate if at all, to the exoticism that the author is talking about, it's in the way I have to interact with non-Asian monoracial persons who are really in my business concerning my multicultural heritage without sincerity.

Seriously, everytime I meet someone new, the conversation always seem to start in many cases with the person asking me 'Where am I from?' 'Oh wow. You have a Chinese name .... but you don't look Chinese.. =/'

I swear I feel like telling the person: 'I'm from America, you dickhead.'

'Hello. I am not a part X, part X hybrid freak wonder of nature. I have a fucking name you know. And I was born in Brooklyn, not some exotic far away third world country. Now change the subject or STFU.'

It's certainly an uphill battle. I am already tired of all that business. I really hate it especially when people don't realize that their compliments are backhanded... for example... "Oh you're mixed? That's why you're so handsome."

"Hey! Being mixed is a blessing in disguise! You're a novelty! Enjoy it!"

I mean, I can understand certainly that people have good inentions, but they don't realize how backhanded comments like those are, and I always get the feeling that these people are asking without wanting to really hear the answer...

I remember once when I had a convo with this girl and she kept talking about me being mixed and how wonderful that was for a long long time...

I pulled her aside and told her that if she really wanted to talk about it then I would be glad to talk to her about it, otherwise she should shut the fuck up.

She said she wanted to talk, and the next 20 minutes she kept not wanting to accept anyhting that I said and kept saying stuff like.. it's been proven with science that mixed people are more attractive because they have greater genetic diversity!!!!

Ah well..

[kimpossible]

I'm not sure how much of this is denial and how much of this is simply beyond his current comprehension. I haven't pressed it since Round 2. He's dad and he's going to have to reconcile with this in his own time and his own terms. Else there is no reason to believe it will end up anywhere else than us both thinking the other doesn't "get it".

Although we all know the truth and that the man is wrong and the woman is right.

[kusojiji]

Although we all know the truth and that the man is wrong and the woman is right.



That is always the truth. :eek:

[AngryABCGirl]

I'm not sure how much of this is denial and how much of this is simply beyond his current comprehension. I haven't pressed it since Round 2. He's dad and he's going to have to reconcile with this in his own time and his own terms. Else there is no reason to believe it will end up anywhere else than us both thinking the other doesn't "get it".

Although we all know the truth and that the man is wrong and the woman is right.

Actually I think BTR is right... he'll probably end up being something neither of you expected. So many things have changed for Asian Americans that even the kids who are teenagers now have such different experiences than when I was a teenager. Asian American media has always existed for them in some fashion- and I think that's a big deal. Asian media and technology is even more in touch at a faster pace than when I was growing up. Also, for them it will be normal that a multi-racial man, not just a Black man- not to mention his Asian niece and Black daughters will playing in the White House. That's been unimaginable, even for me.

Unfortunately on the side of most immigrants, in particular I've noticed to a lot of 1.5 gen-ers, there's a huge anxiety over "losing" of culture and what not. My whole theory is that they're a lot more truly in between cultures (not to mention complicated citizenship issues) than say any ABC actually is. Because even though ABCs stick out in Asia, 1.5gen-ers are really obvious too in a different way.

[SunWuKong]

Unfortunately on the side of most immigrants, in particular I've noticed to a lot of 1.5 gen-ers, there's a huge anxiety over "losing" of culture and what not. My whole theory is that they're a lot more truly in between cultures (not to mention complicated citizenship issues) than say any ABC actually is. Because even though ABCs stick out in Asia, 1.5gen-ers are really obvious too in a different way.

1.5 genners in general are annoyed by ABCs. LOL!

[kimpossible]

Our first concern is that he be educated, successful and have a decent enough moral compass that when we're gone he can look after himself. But in relation to the topic that Sunflare posted, my one main concern with regard to Asian identity is that shit meets with fan in the teen years if the cultural divide is big enough between father and son. And it has everything to do with what SWK just posted.

[SunWuKong]

Our first concern is that he be educated, successful and have a decent enough moral compass that when we're gone he can look after himself. But in relation to the topic that Sunflare posted, my one main concern with regard to Asian identity is that shit meets with fan in the teen years if the cultural divide is big enough between father and son. And it has everything to do with what SWK just posted.

send him to boarding school in Asia! :biggrin:

[AngryABCGirl]

1.5 genners in general are annoyed by ABCs. LOL!

LOL, stupid though, why compare yourselves to people who aren't like you to begin with unless they make you uncomfortable with their existence somehow? It's not as if I stare at the black people on the subway and laugh at them or something because they're different from me.

If anything in this city though I chalk it up to a lot of (although largely unfounded) jealousy that we get to be the ones who get to work in the FiDi while others largely can't get those same jobs, hence fueling the long dramatic history here. Meanwhile I'm coming out of a totally different vacuum so I'm just amused and confused at the same time.

Our first concern is that he be educated, successful and have a decent enough moral compass that when we're gone he can look after himself. But in relation to the topic that Sunflare posted, my one main concern with regard to Asian identity is that shit meets with fan in the teen years if the cultural divide is big enough between father and son. And it has everything to do with what SWK just posted.

I've noticed though in almost every immigrant family with children by my age or even as a teenager have kind of gotten over it or naturally found an accepting balance- quite frankly out of pragmatic necessity and dealing with reality. And sometimes reality is not what people want it to be. I guess its been easier in my case my parents have just become more and more American over the years and less and less Taiwanese as the years have gone on since they've lived here longer than they've lived in Taiwan. They're a lot more on the Obama wagon than the Ma wagon even though they watch Chinese TV all day. Considering they live only among Asians, it's kind of a dramatic paradigm shift they've gone through in their lives. But I do suspect in some ways them and the stark difference that I do notice among my friends who are my age who are 1st gen (who came as adults), just don't have a lot of the identity hang-ups that seem to plague 1.5 gen-ers.

I do think this whole term ABC, even in my coming of age has become less prominent of a term in Chinese American vernacular and will be even less so in the future. I barely used the term until living in Asia because the majority of people aren't educated enough (but you'd be surprised how many are) about Asian American movements and identity, terminology, and what not.

So I call it in my random prediction of the global future- It might still be a big reference in the vernacular of Asian countries that have histories of out-migration, but the reality is that continuing validations and the non-validations and giths over the multicultural dawn that is America's future and more widespread acceptance of Asian Americans of themselves as a group especially with the growing clout of Asian American professional classes of people who identify with certain common if only social circles and lifestyles will shape a different generation to come.

In other words, it might be easier for Asian kids in the future to be Americanized- but it'll be in a far different way than we experienced. Things will probably be a lot for fluid, maybe no easier, but fluid.

send him to boarding school in Asia! :biggrin:

Haha party with the trust fund kids!

I think I'd be a cruel mother if the situation arose I was to work as an expat, I'd do trial by fire and just dump my kids at local school and have them fend for themselves.

[SunWuKong]

LOL, stupid though, why compare yourselves to people who aren't like you to begin with unless they make you uncomfortable with their existence somehow? It's not as if I stare at the black people on the subway and laugh at them or something because they're different from me.

i don't know if we compare ourselves to ABCs, but i think it's mostly the whitewashed ones that annoy us, especially when they find a false sense of identity over something like anime or partying with other Asians.

it's really kind of funny the similar sentiments i've had with some of my 1.5 genner friends. i remember freshman year of university, when i went to the school year's first meeting of the Asian Student Association. my first thought was it was a bunch of whitewashed and cliquish ABCs who think they're cool, and i never went back. later i asked a 1.5 genner friend who was a returning student about ASA, and he said the same thing and that's why he never joined. or this one time when an ABC friend asked a 1.5 genner friend about that "where are you from" question and how she would answer it, and she just said, "China", and the ABC friend was all surprised and didn't know what to make of it.

I guess its been easier in my case my parents have just become more and more American over the years and less and less Taiwanese as the years have gone on since they've lived here longer than they've lived in Taiwan.

i've noticed this with my parents although they haven't lived in the US for a longer time yet than they lived in HK. it's kind of this shift to American attitudes but they retain Chinese habitual tendencies. but i would have to say that they are still very Chinese in their overbearing approach in how they treat my little sister.


I think I'd be a cruel mother if the situation arose I was to work as an expat, I'd do trial by fire and just dump my kids at local school and have them fend for themselves.

incidently, i know more than a couple of people who were sent to international schools who would prefer to send their own kids to local schools if they raised kids in Asia. they think that international school kids are messed up in the head or that they are elitist. LOL!

[kimpossible]

On topic with local schools it can work out great. I know a couple of kids that had to go back and forth attending only public schools. Personally, I think it's better for many reasons.

On topic with the larger topic I know it's time to put it away for a while to revisit later when I'm getting overseas Chinese identities analyzed through D&D character concepts. Pardon me whilst I take a moment to facepalm.

[SunWuKong]

On topic with the larger topic I know it's time to put it away for a while to revisit later when I'm getting overseas Chinese identities analyzed through D&D character concepts. Pardon me whilst I take a moment to facepalm.

i think Mr. Kimpossible and i both know that the interest in DnD was developed through interest in Wuxia first. so you must ask yourself, is Little Emperor more Guo Jing or more Yang Guo?