Korean Beef Protests

[bkim1974]

What do you guys think about the ongoing protests?

Is this another example of the deadly combimnation of Korean nationalism and insecurity?

Personally I think Koreans are overracting. Their protests appear to be fueled by online rumors and half truths. They seem to think the US will be exporting mad cow laden beef that is forbidden to be consumed in the US. Apparently they never had burgers from university cafeterias.

[Craig]

Their protests appear to be fueled by online rumors and half truths.Hey, if their protests are fueled by half-truths, ... then that's better than over 90-something% of the rest of the world. Certainly much better than the USA.

[Player 0]

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=17812

This has relevance.

[SunWuKong]

given Korean populist opposition to the recently signed FTA between South Korea and the US, does anybody think that the beef protests are fueled in part by trade protectionism?

[Yeahman]

It's not just about beef now. It's about President Lee. They call him the "bulldozer" for a reason. Rumors that we Americans eat mad-cow infected beef just gave people an excuse to march against the president.

[yoMAMA]

there are strong political opposition for the Korea FTA here at home, Obama is against, while McCain is for it.

[Yeahman]

Unfortunately, free trade, like criminal law, is something that the state needs to impose on people against their will.

[VV o n g B a]

odd how such a nationalistic nation has such low trust (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=34939). i would have thought nationalism promoted trust and a general sense of cooperation. instead, it seems to be a national pastime to demonstrate and riot.

[yoMAMA]

odd how such a nationalistic nation has such low trust (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=34939). i would have thought nationalism promoted trust and a general sense of cooperation. instead, it seems to be a national pastime to demonstrate and riot.

Korea has a history of being oppressed by larger powers.

It's understandable their sensitivity of being pushed around.

[BeTheReds]

Protesting is Korea's national passtime, and most Koreans don't even know what they are protesting. It also happens that the largest protest over the beef was the 20th anniversary of the pro-Democracy demonstrations, so although there was a gathering of over 500,000 people in Seoul, the issues that they were protesting were everything. Sometimes in direct conflict with each other, one section was protesting U.S. military presence in Seoul, the other section was protesting relocation of farmers so that a new military base can be made outside of Seoul.

As for the beef issue itself, I think American beef is safe. More Koreans will die from drowning in the coming decade than they will die of mad cow. The FTA is beneficial to Korea and if it falls through, and restrictions are kept on US beef, I don't think it's a far stretch that the US decides to stop importing Cars or cell phones from Korea.

The Koreans who protest this are usually the least informed segment of society who are attracted by crowds. They are the same people who still remember Apolo Ohno like it matters, who think that the US somehow makes money off of Korea by having a troop presence in Korea (when actually the US could SAVE a lot of money by not having a troop presence in Korea), who shout at the top of their lungs that they hate Japan, but they watch Japanese cartoons and play with their Nintendo DS Lite...

Ridiculous. Some Koreans I have talked to who aren't against lifting the US beef ban are afraid to say so because they think that others will think of them as traitors to the nation. So much for democracy.

[stonedasian]

Protesting is Korea's national passtime, and most Koreans don't even know what they are protesting. It also happens that the largest protest over the beef was the 20th anniversary of the pro-Democracy demonstrations, so although there was a gathering of over 500,000 people in Seoul, the issues that they were protesting were everything. Sometimes in direct conflict with each other, one section was protesting U.S. military presence in Seoul, the other section was protesting relocation of farmers so that a new military base can be made outside of Seoul.

As for the beef issue itself, I think American beef is safe. More Koreans will die from drowning in the coming decade than they will die of mad cow. The FTA is beneficial to Korea and if it falls through, and restrictions are kept on US beef, I don't think it's a far stretch that the US decides to stop importing Cars or cell phones from Korea.

The Koreans who protest this are usually the least informed segment of society who are attracted by crowds. They are the same people who still remember Apolo Ohno like it matters, who think that the US somehow makes money off of Korea by having a troop presence in Korea (when actually the US could SAVE a lot of money by not having a troop presence in Korea), who shout at the top of their lungs that they hate Japan, but they watch Japanese cartoons and play with their Nintendo DS Lite...

Ridiculous. Some Koreans I have talked to who aren't against lifting the US beef ban are afraid to say so because they think that others will think of them as traitors to the nation. So much for democracy.


You need to stop talking out your ass and give your people more credit for actually understanding what they're/were mad about when they protest. Hear both side of the story before deciding what's what.

the beef thing simplified:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_12387.cfm

Do you even know why your people are against FTA? You ever weigh the pros and cons? Someone mentioned that FTA should be forced on the population, this question is for you too.

You need to rethink your shit man. Your line of thinking is like that old school, obedient, "let the higher ups decide what's best for us because they know what's good for us" bullshit mentality.

Fuck a democracy, this is the Republic at work and I think we need to see shit like that here in the States.

Have a good day :D

[deez nuts]

Why would you protest beef? Beef rocks.

I will rap about it:

Kickin it in the geumchon oh oh
where's the beef in my bibambap oh oh
there's no beef in my bibambap oh oh

[bkim1974]

Protesting is Korea's national passtime, and most Koreans don't even know what they are protesting. It also happens that the largest protest over the beef was the 20th anniversary of the pro-Democracy demonstrations, so although there was a gathering of over 500,000 people in Seoul, the issues that they were protesting were everything. Sometimes in direct conflict with each other, one section was protesting U.S. military presence in Seoul, the other section was protesting relocation of farmers so that a new military base can be made outside of Seoul.

Ridiculous. Some Koreans I have talked to who aren't against lifting the US beef ban are afraid to say so because they think that others will think of them as traitors to the nation. So much for democracy.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Many Koreans can't get away from the mob mentality, where they are drawn to the majority and are deathly afraid of stating their opinions.

One teacher in Korea assured her students that altough she doesn't agree with the government policies, American beef should be safe and not to worry. Within days, the poor teacher was flamed all over the internet, her name and phone number spread around. She was called a traitor and received threatening phone calls on her cell.

This is the kind of society they live in.

These people still belive US consumers only eat Australian beef and you can catch mad cow from eating ramen because the soup base contains beef products.

Just because it's a democracy it doesn't mean everyone should rule. I believe in the 80/20 rule. 80% of the population are illinformed idiots. Like the ones who are protesting in Korea right now.

These people used to WHINE SOOO much about the left leaning president No, calling him a commie and accusing him of sending money to the North that should be spent on the South. Now that they elect a right leaning pro American president, they WHINE that the country has become a puppet of the US government. What they heck do they want? Didn't they at least get an idea that just MAYBE Lee's policies could be pro US?

Why would you protest beef? Beef rocks.

I will rap about it:

Kickin it in the geumchon oh oh
where's the beef in my bibambap oh oh
there's no beef in my bibambap oh oh

That's pretty funny^^

[Craig]

Many Koreans can't get away from the mob mentality, where they are drawn to the majority and are deathly afraid of stating their opinions.If you changed the word "Koreans" to "humans" or essentially almost every (if not every) other ethnicity of people on this planet, it wouldn't change the validity.

For us unenlightened about the nuances of Korean culture, how would they be different from the reference points most of this board has (Chinese, Western, Vietnamese, Asians that grew up in Western countries, etc.)

[Sunflare]

You need to stop talking out your ass and give your people more credit for actually understanding what they're/were mad about when they protest. Hear both side of the story before deciding what's what.

the beef thing simplified:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_12387.cfm

Do you even know why your people are against FTA? You ever weigh the pros and cons? Someone mentioned that FTA should be forced on the population, this question is for you too.

You need to rethink your shit man. Your line of thinking is like that old school, obedient, "let the higher ups decide what's best for us because they know what's good for us" bullshit mentality.

Fuck a democracy, this is the Republic at work and I think we need to see shit like that here in the States.

Have a good day :D

I'm not trying to get into this discussion because I am not Korean nor am I particularly knowledged on Korean politics.

But, dude, give BeTheReds a break. He's entitled to his opinion.

Why would you protest beef? Beef rocks.

I will rap about it:

Kickin it in the geumchon oh oh
where's the beef in my bibambap oh oh
there's no beef in my bibambap oh oh

I literally started choking on my spit on this shit laughing. Oh man.

[stonedasian]

I'm not trying to get into this discussion because I am not Korean nor am I particularly knowledged on Korean politics.

But, dude, give BeTheReds a break. He's entitled to his opinion.

I didn't mean to sound like I was angry at him or anything like that. I just typed as if I was speaking to my friends. And I guess I shouldn't do that :)

As you say he most definitely is entitled to his opinion. And I can certainly agree to disagree but there's too much generalization in his post. Same goes for bkim.

If you can understand Korean you can this pretty much sums up why people are gathering with candles. It ain't just the beef thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPFLUE9pJFQ&feature=related

As far as people bitching, that's what people are supposed to do for the republic to work properly.

[bkim1974]

It's not just about beef now. It's about President Lee. They call him the "bulldozer" for a reason. Rumors that we Americans eat mad-cow infected beef just gave people an excuse to march against the president.


I agree. I think its ridiculous the Korean people want the president out after only 4 months in the office. This is not democracy. They can't keep changing presidents every time one makes an unpopular decision.

[stonedasian]

I agree. I think its ridiculous the Korean people want the president out after only 4 months in the office. This is not democracy. They can't keep changing presidents every time one makes an unpopular decision.

I think it's awesome. Tells me people of Korea's paying attention to what the administration's doing. Accountability is a mother.... Also, popularity contest is democracy, president Lee should be using more tact.

[BeTheReds]

You need to stop talking out your ass and give your people more credit for actually understanding what they're/were mad about when they protest. Hear both side of the story before deciding what's what.


That's quite a strong accusation, suggesting that I have not heard both sides of the story. What I have heard from the other side is that they think that Americans are conspiring to sell all the parts of the cow that are unsafe to Korea, thus making shitloads of money off a product that Americans themselves won't use.

I've also heard the other side say that American beef is the least safe in the world, when statistics clearly show that only 1 confirmed case of mad cow has been confirmed and it was in cattle imported from Canada.

The beef issue protest has some merit to it. However, the bottom line boils down to this. If you don't want American beef, don't buy it. The end. Otherwise STFU.


the beef thing simplified:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_12387.cfm

I am aware of the intricacies of the debate.

Do you even know why your people are against FTA? You ever weigh the pros and cons? Someone mentioned that FTA should be forced on the population, this question is for you too.


Who is talking in uninformed generalizations now? My people? Koreans are living breathing people with different points of view. Notice when I posted before I said "many of those who are protesting", taking extra care to not suggest that all Koreans think the same way. On your point about the FTA, most Koreans are in fact in FAVOR of the FTA as it is good for the Korean economy. The cons are that it would basically kill the Korean agricultural sector and will flood the market with cheaper American agricultural products... especially rice. It's great for the consumer, great for American farmers, but terrible for the Korean farmer. But there are trade offs in every FTA, and this one is by no means one sided. Think how well Korean cars will do in the US if you can make them even cheaper than they already are! Do you think the people at GM, Ford, and the rest of Detroit are happy about that?


You need to rethink your shit man. Your line of thinking is like that old school, obedient, "let the higher ups decide what's best for us because they know what's good for us" bullshit mentality.


I have lived in Korea for the past two years and have traveled here every year since 2001 and witnessed many many many protests. My assesment of the beef protest wasn't innacurate.


Yes, I know people are protesting 2MB more than beef, but there was a lot of anti-americanism in that protest that wasn't necessary.

[yoMAMA]

Korean nationalism: potent and troubling

Philip Bowring, IHT

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/16/opinion/edbowring.php

For all their political and economic differences, the two Koreas sometimes seem to share a paranoia about foreigners.

For allowing in U.S. beef, President Lee was variously been compared to the minister who helped Japan annex Korea in 1910 and the emperors who paid tribute to China.

[BeTheReds]

For allowing in U.S. beef, President Lee was variously been compared to the minister who helped Japan annex Korea in 1910 and the emperors who paid tribute to China.

It's stuff like this that makes me not able to take protest demonstrations in Korea seriously. These people should think about how life in Korea was shortly after the Korean War. Seriously, think about it. Here they are raising a huge stink over something rather trivial when their forefathers built up a strong economy out of the dirt. Frankly it is insulting to the seriousness of what happened under Japanese occupation to equate a bilaterally signed FTA agreement with annexation, systematic removal of Korean language and culture, countless atrocities, and military driven sexual slavery.

Now I am sure that not even a significant minority of people protesting the american beef deal even have the kind of sentiment like the quote above, but the fact that this kind of thing appears is alarming.

It's like the time when I went to the anti-war demonstration in 2003 in Japan only to find that people were waving american flags with the nazi swastika in the blue field. Hate the War all you want, hate Bush all you want, but he's not Hitler, and the US for all its faults is not Nazi Germany...

[yoMAMA]

It's stuff like this that makes me not able to take protest demonstrations in Korea seriously. These people should think about how life in Korea was shortly after the Korean War. Seriously, think about it. Here they are raising a huge stink over something rather trivial when their forefathers built up a strong economy out of the dirt. Frankly it is insulting to the seriousness of what happened under Japanese occupation to equate a bilaterally signed FTA agreement with annexation, systematic removal of Korean language and culture, countless atrocities, and military driven sexual slavery.

Now I am sure that not even a significant minority of people protesting the american beef deal even have the kind of sentiment like the quote above, but the fact that this kind of thing appears is alarming.

It's like the time when I went to the anti-war demonstration in 2003 in Japan only to find that people were waving american flags with the nazi swastika in the blue field. Hate the War all you want, hate Bush all you want, but he's not Hitler, and the US for all its faults is not Nazi Germany...

Good points.

also, what if Russia, not Japan, colonized Korea?

would they be as brutal as the Japanese?

[BeTheReds]

Very hypothetical.

I would assume that Korea would have been an SSR and that it would currently be a recovering economy the likes of Ukraine or Kazakhstan.

[Player 0]

^I would actually assume that, if assuming the Bolshevik revolution still occurred with WWI, then Korea would actually be an independent state much like Mongolia, or would be seized by the Japanese in the end in the chaos of the revolution.

[bkim1974]

It's like the time when I went to the anti-war demonstration in 2003 in Japan only to find that people were waving american flags with the nazi swastika in the blue field. Hate the War all you want, hate Bush all you want, but he's not Hitler, and the US for all its faults is not Nazi Germany...

I guess those people forgot about Hitler rule.You can't compare anything against Hitler and the Nazis because you will be invariable wrong. Nothing can ever be as horrible as to merit comparison against Hitler.

Good points.

also, what if Russia, not Japan, colonized Korea?

would they be as brutal as the Japanese?

I think there is a thread here that discusses if it would have been better for Korea to be annexed by Japan or Russia. It's a few years old.

It's stuff like this that makes me not able to take protest demonstrations in Korea seriously. These people should think about how life in Korea was shortly after the Korean War. Seriously, think about it. Here they are raising a huge stink over something rather trivial when their forefathers built up a strong economy out of the dirt. Frankly it is insulting to the seriousness of what happened under Japanese occupation to equate a bilaterally signed FTA agreement with annexation, systematic removal of Korean language and culture, countless atrocities, and military driven sexual slavery.




Typical arguments made by anti US beef people are;

1) US Consumers actually eat Australian beef

2) The US beef industry is conspiring to sell cow parts to Korean consumers that they (US) don't even feed their own dogs. Hence Korean consumers are less important that American dogs.

3)The US beef industry is trying to sell beef from cows that are more than 30 months old to Korea while US consumers get to eat beef from younger cows. They seem to ignore the fact that the USDA does not have guidelines (that I found) than mandates beef must come from cows that are less than 30 months old. The fact is 95% of cows that are slaughtered are less than 24 months old because cows willl get too muscular and the meat taste worse after that time period. Thus ranchers will not get good price for their cattle if they are too old. In any case old cows (such as milk cows) are often used to hamburger meat.

[Player 0]

I guess those people forgot about Hitler rule.You can't compare anything against Hitler and the Nazis because you will be invariable wrong. Nothing can ever be as horrible as to merit comparison against Hitler.





Wow, you have a really limited knowledge of history then.

[bkim1974]

Wow, you have a really limited knowledge of history then.

Oh really? Why don't you broaden my limited knowledge then? I'm here to learn and bounce off ideas anyways.

Oh really? Why don't you broaden my limited knowledge then? I'm here to learn and bounce off ideas anyways.

In any case I may have slightly misinterpreted Godwin's law regarding making comparison's to Hitler. But I do want to hear what you have to say. I just hope we don't get into an argument on who's atrocity is worse.

[BeTheReds]

Typical arguments made by anti US beef people are;

1) US Consumers actually eat Australian beef

2) The US beef industry is conspiring to sell cow parts to Korean consumers that they (US) don't even feed their own dogs. Hence Korean consumers are less important that American dogs.

3)The US beef industry is trying to sell beef from cows that are more than 30 months old to Korea while US consumers get to eat beef from younger cows. They seem to ignore the fact that the USDA does not have guidelines (that I found) than mandates beef must come from cows that are less than 30 months old. The fact is 95% of cows that are slaughtered are less than 24 months old because cows willl get too muscular and the meat taste worse after that time period. Thus ranchers will not get good price for their cattle if they are too old. In any case old cows (such as milk cows) are often used to hamburger meat.

Exactly, these types of arguments are baseless, but somehow believed by a huge segment of the population. It really bothers me how people come up with this stuff and how it is so readily believed.

[bkim1974]

Korean nationalism: potent and troubling

Philip Bowring, IHT

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/16/opinion/edbowring.php

Good article.

Few Koreans realize all this fervent nationalism does more harm than good.

You should also realize there is a sizeable group of rational people in Korea who are afraid to speak their minds. The government may not censor people and send them to re education camps like in the 80s. However, thanks to advanced internet in Korea, anything unpopular you say can be posted in the internet and your personal info hacked into. You would receive threatening calls within days.

[SunWuKong]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7458560.stm

[Sunflare]

Good article.

Few Koreans realize all this fervent nationalism does more harm than good.

You should also realize there is a sizeable group of rational people in Korea who are afraid to speak their minds. The government may not censor people and send them to re education camps like in the 80s. However, thanks to advanced internet in Korea, anything unpopular you say can be posted in the internet and your personal info hacked into. You would receive threatening calls within days.

I heard similar stories like that in the US too. In one case a girl's father had to call in FBI agents and almost got an entire forum shut down because of constant harassing emails and phone calls even, I believe.

[bkim1974]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7458560.stm

The Korean government certainly didn't help its cause by the arrogant mishandling of the beef issue. The bigger problem are these young people who believe everything they read on the internet. They have to realize PETA and USDA have very divergent views on the safety of beef consumption.

[j&j2]

3)The US beef industry is trying to sell beef from cows that are more than 30 months old to Korea while US consumers get to eat beef from younger cows. They seem to ignore the fact that the USDA does not have guidelines (that I found) than mandates beef must come from cows that are less than 30 months old. The fact is 95% of cows that are slaughtered are less than 24 months old because cows willl get too muscular and the meat taste worse after that time period. Thus ranchers will not get good price for their cattle if they are too old. In any case old cows (such as milk cows) are often used to hamburger meat.

Aside from a vocal minority that is against Pres. Lee's policies in general or just have a beef (sorry, couldn't help myself) against the US - the majority of Koreans just want what pretty much the rest of the world gets w/ regard to imported American beef.

Taiwan, HK, the Philippines, Mexico, etc. all require imported US beef to be from cattle 30 months or less.

Japan is even more STRINGENT - requiring beef to come from cattle 20 months or less and for all bone fragments and brain parts to be removed.

Actually, the FDA recently strengthened its safeguards for human beef consumption in the US w/ a new regulation.

The entire carcass of cattle not inspected and passed for human consumption is also prohibited, unless the cattle are less than 30 months of age, or the brains and spinal cords have been removed. The risk of BSE in cattle less than 30 months of age is considered to be exceedingly low.

And btw, Korea did allow the re-importation of American beef in 2006, but in violation of the agreement, bone fragments were found in a no. of shipments.

[SunWuKong]

Taiwan, HK, the Philippines, Mexico, etc. all require imported US beef to be from cattle 30 months or less.

i could be wrong, but doesn't South Korea import more beef than the other Asian countries?

[j&j2]

^ Generally - yes (prior to the ban, Korea was the 3rd largest importer of US beef).

While Korea imports Aussie beef, the ban on US and Canadian beef has probably taken a toll on its total beef imports (otoh, Korea does import a lot of US pork).

[Yeahman]

Aside from a vocal minority that is against Pres. Lee's policies in general or just have a beef (sorry, couldn't help myself) against the US - the majority of Koreans just want what pretty much the rest of the world gets w/ regard to imported American beef.

Taiwan, HK, the Philippines, Mexico, etc. all require imported US beef to be from cattle 30 months or less.

Japan is even more STRINGENT - requiring beef to come from cattle 20 months or less and for all bone fragments and brain parts to be removed.

Actually, the FDA recently strengthened its safeguards for human beef consumption in the US w/ a new regulation.
Unfortunately, they don't know much about the rest of the world.

There's been 2 cases of mad cow in the US and no cases of people being infected by it. Koreans don't know that.

The FDA prohibits the consumption of cow brains and spinal cords more than 30 months old but we still eat beef that is more than 30 months old. Koreans don't know that.

Most of the world eats beef from cows older than 30 months. As it stands right now, if fully implemented, Korea's policy would be on par with most of the rest of the world. I believe only Japan would be stricter. Koreans don't know that.

[bkim1974]

Unfortunately, they don't know much about the rest of the world.

There's been 2 cases of mad cow in the US and no cases of people being infected by it. Koreans don't know that.

The FDA prohibits the consumption of cow brains and spinal cords more than 30 months old but we still eat beef that is more than 30 months old. Koreans don't know that.

Most of the world eats beef from cows older than 30 months. As it stands right now, if fully implemented, Korea's policy would be on par with most of the rest of the world. I believe only Japan would be stricter. Koreans don't know that.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but everything you have said is correct. The tired argument Koreans make that irritates me the most is that Americans only eat beef from Australia or they only eat beef from cows that are less than 20 months old.

[SunWuKong]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7497093.stm

More than a month of paralysis in South Korea's National Assembly will finally lift this week, after the opposition party agreed to end its boycott.

[j&j2]

Unfortunately, they don't know much about the rest of the world.

There's been 2 cases of mad cow in the US and no cases of people being infected by it. Koreans don't know that.

I'd hardly think that Koreans think that there people dying left and right in the US from BSE.

Besides - why do other countries in Asia and even the Americas (Mexico) have limits on US beef imports? Are they just as ignorant?


The FDA prohibits the consumption of cow brains and spinal cords more than 30 months old but we still eat beef that is more than 30 months old. Koreans don't know that.

Uhh, the FDA prohibits the consumption of beef from cattle over 30 months in age - unless it has been INDIVIDUALLY inspected or all bone and brain tissue have been removed.

Neither condition was part of the original US beef agreement.

Most of the world eats beef from cows older than 30 months. As it stands right now, if fully implemented, Korea's policy would be on par with most of the rest of the world. I believe only Japan would be stricter. Koreans don't know that.

Uhh, Koreans aren't worried about beef from cattle over 30 months from other markets - like Australia, just the US.

As are countries like Taiwan, the Philippines and Mexico - which ALL require US beef to be bone and brain tissue-free and from cattle 30 months or less.

I would think that the Koreans DO know this - hence only some hardcore protestors continuing once the 30 month condition was implemented (the uproar was over the fact that Pres. Lee didn't allow for the same conditions of import that all countries had and not b/c of the importation of US beef in general; after all, there were no protests back in 2006, when US beef imports under those conditions were allowed).

So what does that make the Japanese? Who insist on US beef being bone fragment free and a 20 month cut-off?

Heck - certain American beef producers wanted to test every cattle destined for Japan to be tested for BSE (due to Japanese market demands), but the FDA prohibted them from doing so.

[Yeahman]

I'd hardly think that Koreans think that there people dying left and right in the US from BSE.
Most Koreans do mistakenly believe that some Americans have died from mad cow.

Besides - why do other countries in Asia and even the Americas (Mexico) have limits on US beef imports? Are they just as ignorant?
They are just as protectionist.

Uhh, the FDA prohibits the consumption of beef from cattle over 30 months in age - unless it has been INDIVIDUALLY inspected or all bone and brain tissue have been removed.
Not all bone just the spinal cord but that's exactly what I said. I can go to the supermarket and buy beef that is from cows older than 30 months. Were you agreeing with me?

Uhh, Koreans aren't worried about beef from cattle over 30 months from other markets - like Australia, just the US.
And why do you think that is?

So what does that make the Japanese? Who insist on US beef being bone fragment free and a 20 month cut-off?
Extremely protectionist.

[j&j2]

Most Koreans do mistakenly believe that some Americans have died from mad cow.

As do many Americans.


They are just as protectionist.

So why weren't they protectionist prior to the BSE scare in the US?

So why do they import large quantities of beef from Australia and to a lesser extent - New Zealand (note: no beef imports from Canada, another large beef producer due to BSE concerns)?

So why is US pork imported in large quantities - actually rising 12% so far this year?

Not all bone just the spinal cord but that's exactly what I said. I can go to the supermarket and buy beef that is from cows older than 30 months. Were you agreeing with me?

Uhh, when did I say that you weren't able to?

Otoh, you implied that Koreans were nuts for not wanted to eat American beef from cattle over 30 months in age.

And why do you think that is?

Uhh, could it possibly be that Australia has had no incidents of BSE and the US has?

Extremely protectionist.

Uhh, no - it doesn't really impact the amount of beef that gets imported in Japan, since the US has more than enough supply many times over to supply beef from cattle 20 months or less.

I guess Taiwan, HK, Mexico, the Philippines, Japan, Korea, etc. just coincidentally became "protectionists" at the same time - right around the time of the US BSE scare.

[Yeahman]

So why weren't they protectionist prior to the BSE scare in the US?

So why do they import large quantities of beef from Australia and to a lesser extent - New Zealand (note: no beef imports from Canada, another large beef producer due to BSE concerns)?

So why is US pork imported in large quantities - actually rising 12% so far this year?
You always need an excuse. In the US, we use "living wages," "environmental protections," and "national security." In Korea, it was "mad cow."

Otoh, you implied that Koreans were nuts for not wanted to eat American beef from cattle over 30 months in age.
No I didn't.

Uhh, no - it doesn't really impact the amount of beef that gets imported in Japan, since the US has more than enough supply many times over to supply beef from cattle 20 months or less.
Imports from the US dropped 10% after the 20-month regulation went into effect. And Japan has had far more cases of BSE than the US.

I guess Taiwan, HK, Mexico, the Philippines, Japan, Korea, etc. just coincidentally became "protectionists" at the same time - right around the time of the US BSE scare.
Uh no. It was no coincidence. There was a US BSE scare at the time. Did you not know that?

[bkim1974]

It looks like I was wrong about the FDA regulations regarding US beef from cows more than 30 months old. Per the FDA news release dated April 23rd 2008, beef from cows more than 30 months old must be inspected before it's consumed.

Apparently the original beef import agreement betwen US and Korea did not include this condition. The question I have is whether the agreement did not specifically include this clause ( I am told)because it was implied beef imported to Korea would follow the FDA guidelines.

I don't believe beef to be exported would be exempt from FDA guidelines. I believe this was one of the main arguments made by the protesters. That beef for export would be treated differently from beef to be consumed in the US.

Of course Koreans choose to ignore the fact that Korean cows eat imported feed and there are many downer cows that are illgally slaughtered and sold in Korean markets.

[j&j2]

You always need an excuse. In the US, we use "living wages," "environmental protections," and "national security." In Korea, it was "mad cow."

LOL!!

So if it was "protectionism" as you claim - explain this...

How was it that in 2007 - Korea was the 4th largest importer of US beef?

We're talking about 53.4 million pounds.

So why weren't there masses of protest against US beef then?

Could it possibly be that the agreement for imports in 2007 had a 30 month clause?


No I didn't.

Yeah, right.

And btw, if the Koreans are so misinformed - as are the Japanese, HKers, Thais, the Fils, the Mexicans, etc. - then why did the US, when it first lifted the ban on Canadian beef have a 30 month cut-off?

Imports from the US dropped 10% after the 20-month regulation went into effect. And Japan has had far more cases of BSE than the US.

That's b/c it took time for US beef producers to get in gear w/ the Japanese regs.

In 2007, beef exports to Japan increased substantially from the prior year to 98.6 million pounds.

Uh no. It was no coincidence. There was a US BSE scare at the time. Did you not know that?

That has to do w/ the complete ban of US beef.

Not the 30 month (or boneless) restrictions - duh!

(What are you - a US beef industry lobbyist? lol)

[Yeahman]

MBC has been ordered to air corrections to its misleading report on mad cow that sparked this whole mess. Nice to know that Koreans will finally be getting some real facts.

[cloudzero]

What do you guys think about the ongoing protests?

Is this another example of the deadly combimnation of Korean nationalism and insecurity?

Personally I think Koreans are overracting. Their protests appear to be fueled by online rumors and half truths. They seem to think the US will be exporting mad cow laden beef that is forbidden to be consumed in the US. Apparently they never had burgers from university cafeterias.

damn how did i miss this thread?

no i dont think they are overreacting. the only reason alot of food products are legal in america is because they dont kill you instantly. im not saying i know specifically which products cause cancer but when you bombard your body with packages foods loaded with chemicals, health problems are bound to happen. just looking at the ingredients on every package, it is impossible to not to think atleast some of them have a strong effect. its like not like they can do long term research on each and every single one of those deoxymonohydroxinate

european countries have taken steps to ban a lot of chemicals which are still legal in the USA today. when it comes to the hormones and steroids in the cows that everyone is talking about, i can definitely see why they are concerned

[bkim1974]

damn how did i miss this thread?

no i dont think they are overreacting. the only reason alot of food products are legal in america is because they dont kill you instantly. im not saying i know specifically which products cause cancer but when you bombard your body with packages foods loaded with chemicals, health problems are bound to happen. just looking at the ingredients on every package, it is impossible to not to think atleast some of them have a strong effect. its like not like they can do long term research on each and every single one of those deoxymonohydroxinate

european countries have taken steps to ban a lot of chemicals which are still legal in the USA today. when it comes to the hormones and steroids in the cows that everyone is talking about, i can definitely see why they are concerned

You have a good point. Everyone should be concerned of what they eat and what goes into their bodies. People can do many things to help themselves, like avoiding too much meat in their diets and processed food as well.

But the mad cow rumors in Korea were getting out of hand. People were claiming makeup and tampons were not safe because they used beef byproducts.

[cloudzero]

But the mad cow rumors in Korea were getting out of hand. People were claiming makeup and tampons were not safe because they used beef byproducts.

they arent safe. but its not because of beef products. i remember something on the news where they said 200 somethign household chemicals contribute to breast cancer. they should be more worried bout that

[j&j2]

MBC has been ordered to air corrections to its misleading report on mad cow that sparked this whole mess. Nice to know that Koreans will finally be getting some real facts.

That still wouldn't have made a difference over the majority of the populace wanting the 30 month condition re-instituted (once the condition was put back into place, US beef started to sell briskly again).

And yes, while MBC went sensationalistic (btw, for ratings and not b/c it had to do w/ anti-Americanism) and should be punished - it's not that different from what CNN, FoxNews, local news, etc. have done regarding the danger of toys made in China.

In fact, Mattel blamed poor Chinese manufacturing for some of its dangerous toys when, in fact, it was poor design (design flaw).

And oh, there still is a court battle over the importation of live cattle from Canada over 30 months - and a recent govt. audit shows that the USDA has totally lost track of the cattle as required by law (supposed to keep track of where the cattle is from and where they are destined for the US - as well as age, etc.).