the Republican primary

[SunWuKong]

i've been paying attention mostly to the Hillary vs. Barack race lately, but i decided to spend some time watching the Republican debates on youtube. i have to say that i like McCain the most, even though i disagree with his stance on Iraq. i absolutely love the way Paul sticks to his views on foreign policy and Iraq despite how unpopular they are with the current Republican base. and i basically think having Romney as president would be the worse case scenario for this country.

assuming Giuliani fails to win Florida, it would probably be a race between McCain and Romney. if Romney wins the Republican nomination, then my choice is basically made. i'd be voting not-Romney.

if McCain wins, it'll be a difficult choice for me (because honestly, Clinton and Obama don't seem that different from each other to me). Iraq is probably the biggest issue for me and he's pretty hawkish on foreign policy. but most of his other policies i either agree with or disagree but can live with. most of all, he's probably one of the more moderate Republicans right now, despite his dedicated support for the war. i remember back in Republican-controlled Congress there was a period of time when the Democrats kept using filibusters to delay the passage of certain bills, and some of the Republicans were talking about trying to get rid of the ability to filibuster. McCain was one of the Republicans that basically said, "are you crazy?" (not a quote). on the other hand, he loses points with me for thinking that he can use the word "gook" even if he says he only uses it on the Vietcong.

[haplesshobo]

i absolutely love the way Paul sticks to his views on foreign policy and Iraq despite how unpopular they are with the current Republican base.

McCain also made some very unpopular decisions and stuck to it, even though they were so unpopular that his campaign was left for dead six months ago.

I liked the fact that he refused to pander in the Michigan primary, even though it probably cost him that primary. If he had ended up winning that primary, Romney, his strongest competitor, would have been knocked out of the race.

[VV o n g B a]

he loses points with me for thinking that he can use the word "gook" even if he says he only uses it on the Vietcong.i can't say i like it, but if a group of ppl tortured me i'd call them names too.

but yeah, i agree w/ ur assessment as far as romney being a terrible choice and voting not-romney. i'd do the same for guiliani.

the other thing is that the reps are talking about his nomination splitting the party. this is a good thing. if mccain leads the party, then he knocks the extremists out of power. it would also keep an all dem governing body out of power.

it will be like clinton after 94. best of both worlds. u get a moderate pres w/ an opposition party in power. u get shit done but u don't get too much shit done. the thing that sucks is that the supreme court will prolly get even more socially conservative. possibly much more and that isn't good for anyone.

[monkeygone2]

mccain seems to be the only republican concerned w/ poverty issues.

[Yeahman]

Way back, I was predicting a McCain landslide until I heard just how strongly he supported the war. He's the only Republican who's right on immigration. He's right on torture. On the other hand, it's hard to get excited about McCain. He doesn't offer any radical change. All his policy positions are just moderate.

Romney is the Republican Hillary. Willing to take any position that will get votes. A pity really because I think he'd be a good president if he had a spine.

[kimpossible]

I'd prefer a race of McCain vs. Edwards. Although I voted for Bill Clinton twice, I don't think I'll go for threesies. Oops, I mean I don't think I'll vote for Hillary. Obama would have made a good candidate in about 8 years but he rushed it. I don't like the way he becomes so easily unraveled. I'm also concerned taxes and spending will spiral out of control under his watch.

Romney... Romney. He's a smug mofo but I do have to recognize his business sense. He's running for CEO of USA, Inc. than president but if he had a solid military person as veep then businesses would be happy and maybe the veep will handle our 'war' better one way or another. All in or all out. I also think he's got a better outlook on China, not as scary communist but a business competitor/customer.

[AngryABCGirl]

I'd rather shoot my foot than vote for Hilary at this point. If it's her and McCain I may actually vote Republican or abstain completely.

[monkeygone2]

i don't know if i can believe anything romney says. his campaign is constantly morphing. and the way he defended his religion's racist past was hilarious ("I saw my father march with Martin Luther King"- except he was in france at the time, and his pops didn't actually "march" on the same date/location as king).

the last mega-businessman to successfully win the office was herbert hoover (the great depression).

[yoMAMA]

I'd rather shoot my foot than vote for Hilary at this point. If it's her and McCain I may actually vote Republican or abstain completely.

Amen!

I'm just sick of Billary's antics. We don't need to go back to the 90s.

My preference of the candidates:

1. Obama
2. McCain
3. Bloomberg-it would be awesome if he run
4. Romney

I also think he's got a better outlook on China, not as scary communist but a business competitor/customer.

well, the company he co-founded is now in bed with the reds :wink:

they are jointly buying 3com.

[kimpossible]

i don't know if i can believe anything romney says. his campaign is constantly morphing. and the way he defended his religion's racist past was hilarious ("I saw my father march with Martin Luther King"- except he was in france at the time, and his pops didn't actually "march" on the same date/location as king).

the last mega-businessman to successfully win the office was herbert hoover (the great depression).

He's so generic he should wear a white shirt with black block letters that say "CANDIDATE" over a barcode. And that's why he's safe. His political positions tend to pander so he's malleable by public opinion. What does seem to be consistent is his ability to run an organization and come out the profit end. Additionally, anal-ysts and businesses would probably be comfortable with him so the general outlook may be more positive and less knee-jerk.

Essentially, Romney is Wonder Bread. Whole grain might be more nutritious and maybe a croissant could be a welcome change but we've been assdeep in change for the worse almost a decade long.

Two big concerns with Romney, my constant desire to bitchslap him aside, is his economics might further the gap between rich and poor and edge out middle class even more, and I don't think he has the balls to stand up to some tough leaders. Can you imagine him meeting with Putin? Maybe I'm all wrong about that but I picture Romney pissing his extremely expensive suits.


I'm just sick of Billary's antics. We don't need to go back to the 90s.



Isn't it depressing? The first supposedly viable female candidate and she's not only riding her husband's coattails constantly but pushing him out there to basically run for her. I needed to see her for herself and I haven't.

By the way, I want to take a moment to thank you all for the political discussion on war and presidency this year. Though we'll all make our own decisions it's a great way to work through the candidates and issues.

edited to add: The choice of VPs may be a make or break in my vote.

[haplesshobo]

The interesting thing about the Republican primary is how fractured it is- you have three candidates in Romney, McCain, and Huckabee who all represent different factions in the party, and how they're getting called out as not being real conservatives by some in the Rep. party.
Reagan and Bush were able to succesfully unite the different factions, and Thompson was the only candidate who could have hypothetically done.

Even if one of them finally wins the nomination, will he be able to unite the party afterwards? Politically, you could try co-opting your opponent as the VP. But, the rest of the candidates hate Romney, so I don't know who Romney would pick as his VP if he won the nomination. Maybe a McCain-Huckabee ticket?

Is this sign of things to come to the Republican party, where they'll have trobule in the future uniting under the same banner again?

[VV o n g B a]

a huckabee vp would considerably dampen my mild enthusiasm for mccain. it wouldn't cause me to vote against mccain, but it might get me to stay home. i would hesitate to put anyone who thinks the earth is only 6000 yrs old in-line for president. that just marks u as a special kinda stupid. lots of reasonable christians don't take it that far.

[kimpossible]

Based on one of the answers he gave last night, I would be surprised if McCain chose Huckabee. McCain's been in politics for a long time and he mentioned a circle of trusted people he's built over time that he relies on. He wouldn't need Huckabee but... I personally think Huckabee knows he can't win the nomination and would like to be the McCain's veep choice. Considering McCain's age, you'd have to seriously consider McCain's choice of VP. Yes, I know McCain's 95 year old mother is on the campaign trail with him, but, he is an old coot. I'd like a crystal ball to know who he would pick. It would greatly affect my vote.

[yoMAMA]

a huckabee vp would considerably dampen my mild enthusiasm for mccain. it wouldn't cause me to vote against mccain, but it might get me to stay home. i would hesitate to put anyone who thinks the earth is only 6000 yrs old in-line for president. that just marks u as a special kinda stupid. lots of reasonable christians don't take it that far.

word.

although I think Huckabee would be the perfect fit for the E.D of the white house faith based initiative.

:wink:

Based on one of the answers he gave last night, I would be surprised if McCain chose Huckabee. McCain's been in politics for a long time and he mentioned a circle of trusted people he's built over time that he relies on. He wouldn't need Huckabee but... I personally think Huckabee knows he can't win the nomination and would like to be the McCain's veep choice. Considering McCain's age, you'd have to seriously consider McCain's choice of VP. Yes, I know McCain's 95 year old mother is on the campaign trail with him, but, he is an old coot. I'd like a crystal ball to know who he would pick. It would greatly affect my vote.

I think the VP for McCain will probably be Pawlenty, the governor of Minnesota.

[haplesshobo]

I was referring to a McCain-Huckabee ticket as an attempt to try to unify the Republican Party after a divisive primary. You need to secure your base first before you go out and worry about independent voters.

[Yeahman]

a huckabee vp would considerably dampen my mild enthusiasm for mccain. it wouldn't cause me to vote against mccain, but it might get me to stay home. i would hesitate to put anyone who thinks the earth is only 6000 yrs old in-line for president. that just marks u as a special kinda stupid. lots of reasonable christians don't take it that far.
Neither does Huckabee. Granted, he doesn't mean to know very much about the subject. That makes him stupid in that particular subject just like Obama may be stupid with computers or Hillary with cars.

[shane]

I like Romney best - he's not a southern evangelical, and his record (if you ignore what he says on the campaign trail now) shows that he's considerably more moderate on gay rights/abortion than the Republican base is. Also, unlike our current MBA president, he actually has a record of business success. That leads me to believe that at least he's a competent manager and understands would at least feel somewhat comfortable in the Chief Executive position in this country. It really irritates me that it seems like he'll say anything or take any position that he thinks is popular, but that just says to me that if he wins the nomination he'll be more appealing to the left than anyone else. I think of Romney as potentially the least damaging Republican currently running.

I used to love McCain - I was a supporter in 2000 when I was first starting to follow politics. I also admire his stance on torture, and greatly respect him for his service. But his positions on Iran and Iraq scare me, and I don't really see any feasible way we can rebuild the military to the strength level that he'd like to see. Plus honestly, he's too old. I don't want a 76 year old on the ballot running for reelection in 2012.

I hate Giuliani with a passion. He has no respect for civil rights and harps on and on about 9/11. He has an unabashed authoritarian stance on executive power and privilege, and has a track record of abusing his power for personal gain. I would literally leave the country for 4 years if he became president.

The others, I don't care enough to form an opinion about.

[Yeahman]

OK I'm convinced that Huckabee would be no better than Mr. Rogers as president. Sure he's a nice guy but what does he know about policy?

First there's the FairTax that he supports. Utter garbage that's DOA.
And now he comes out with a truly wacky stimulus plan (build more lanes on I-95!).

[yoMAMA]

I
I hate Giuliani with a passion. He has no respect for civil rights and harps on and on about 9/11. He has an unabashed authoritarian stance on executive power and privilege, and has a track record of abusing his power for personal gain. I would literally leave the country for 4 years if he became president.



Amen.

the sooner he drops out, the better.

What a laughable Florida strategy.

[haplesshobo]

So now that McCain won the Republican-only in Florida, the nomination is his to lose once you start calculating those votes. The rebirth of McCain stole Guialni's thunder, as the voters who voted for McCain were the same voters Guilani was relying upon.

The interesting thing is what does effect this will have on the Democratic primaries, if voters know they'll be electing somebody to go against McCain?

[Yeahman]

^ In polls, both Obama and Clinton tie with McCain.

[yoMAMA]

^ In polls, both Obama and Clinton tie with McCain.

we all know how reliable polls are.
:biggrin:

[haplesshobo]

With the way the Republican governor was able to deliver Florida to McCain, that governor will join the shortlist for potential VP candidates because of his ability to deliver Florida if he's chosen as the VP.

As it becomes increasingly clear that it will be a two man race for the Republican nomination and other candidates such as Rudy Guilani drop out, its interesting that Huckabee is staying in the race even though he has no shot at winning it. Is he trying to become the VP? Or, is the animosity between Huckabee and Romney so bad, that Huckabee decided he'd continue out of spite- by staying in, he'd split the conservative vote with Romney and thereby hand the nomination to McCain. Or, maybe, both?

[deez nuts]

I voted for Mitt Romney today. His name just speaks to me.

[VV o n g B a]

man, u voted for the snake. that guy would sell the souls of his 5 kids if he thought he could get a vote or two out of it.

[deez nuts]

man, u voted for the snake. that guy would sell the souls of his 5 kids if he thought he could get a vote or two out of it.

Really? Hahahaha. Because I thought to myself that he looked like the type you just mentioned just by the way he looks which was what appealed to me. Besides, kids suck anyways.

[SunWuKong]

so Huckabee has been the surprise for the night so far. California is still open, however, but all the news on the Republican party tonight has been about Huckabee.

but what i want to know is - if he's planning on closing the IRS, how is he planning on funding Iraq? has anybody ever actually asked him that?

[AngryABCGirl]

I'd pick Romney over Huckabee or McCain right now. I'd rather have a greedy businessman versus a religious guy and a warmonger.

[Yeahman]

Though he never finished higher than 2nd, Ron Paul actually did surprisingly well. 25% in Montana!

On Intrade, McCain now has a lock. But on the Democratic side, Obama had a surge and now he and Hillary are pretty much tied!

but what i want to know is - if he's planning on closing the IRS, how is he planning on funding Iraq? has anybody ever actually asked him that?
He supports the FairTax, a national sales tax. It's one of the reasons why I think he knows little about economic policy.

I'd pick Romney over Huckabee or McCain right now. I'd rather have a greedy businessman versus a religious guy and a warmonger.
What's wrong with a religious guy?
They're all warmongers.

[AngryABCGirl]

What's wrong with a religious guy?
They're all warmongers.

Tend to not separate church and state. But McCain is far too hawkish for me, although I think he could do good in other areas.

[SunWuKong]

Tend to not separate church and state. But McCain is far too hawkish for me, although I think he could do good in other areas.

seriously if he was not so hawkish on foreign policy, he would be an easy choice for me. conservative politicians more or less hate him. in West Virginia, the state Republicans decided to give out delegate votes by holding a convention instead of by letting people cast votes. McCain won only 1% of the votes because of that.

i don't actually understand why West Virginia Republicans hate McCain. it's not like they're a border state with a high population of illegal Mexicans.

[Yeahman]

Tend to not separate church and state.
How so?

But McCain is far too hawkish for me, although I think he could do good in other areas.
All the candidates minus Paul are too hawkish for me. If polls showed support for the war, Hillary would be touting the fact that she voted for it. Obama sounds damn hawkish on Pakistan and Iran.

seriously if he was not so hawkish on foreign policy, he would be an easy choice for me. conservative politicians more or less hate him. in West Virginia, the state Republicans decided to give out delegate votes by holding a convention instead of by letting people cast votes. McCain won only 1% of the votes because of that.

i don't actually understand why West Virginia Republicans hate McCain. it's not like they're a border state with a high population of illegal Mexicans.
Actually, McCain threw his support behind Huckabee in WV in order to defeat Romney.

[shane]

i don't actually understand why West Virginia Republicans hate McCain. it's not like they're a border state with a high population of illegal Mexicans.

You don't have to be a border state to have high-visibility communities of illegals. The guy who killed my dad (in TX) was found 9 months later hiding out in a community of illegals in WV. Even Utah has surprisingly large pockets of illegals.

[SunWuKong]

All the candidates minus Paul are too hawkish for me. If polls showed support for the war, Hillary would be touting the fact that she voted for it. Obama sounds damn hawkish on Pakistan and Iran.

i would say Obama would support the war, too, if the polls showed support for it. it's the reason why he relatively didn't vote that much in the Senate, and it's the reason why he had previously said his stance on the war is basically the same as Bush. he said this during the last presidential election because both Kerry and Edwards had voted to authorise the war.

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011470.php#1

Actually, McCain threw his support behind Huckabee in WV in order to defeat Romney.

oh, i didn't know that.

[SunWuKong]

Romney quits. and this is what he said...
"If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win," Mr Romney planned to say at the conference, AP reported.

[b]"And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7233537.stm

oh. my. god.

[Yeahman]

Romney and Huckabee were taking votes away from each other so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out for Huckabee.

It'll be interesting to see if McCain moderates his war position. Despite how much I hated it, maybe it was a good move to try to win the nomination.

[deez nuts]

If it's McCain vs Clinton, I will vote for Clinton

If it's McCain vs Obama, I will vote for McCain

I just know the candidates on perfunctory level and haven't scrutinized each candidate in detail. I'll just admit that I am superficial and I just don't like Obama because he annoys me.

[AngryABCGirl]

Romney in a surprising move, has dropped out.

[SunWuKong]

Romney quits. and this is what he said...
"If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win," Mr Romney planned to say at the conference, AP reported.

[b]"And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7233537.stm

oh. my. god.

looks like BBC has updated its article. it no longer has that second part of the quote.

If it's McCain vs Clinton, I will vote for Clinton

If it's McCain vs Obama, I will vote for McCain

I just know the candidates on perfunctory level and haven't scrutinized each candidate in detail. I'll just admit that I am superficial and I just don't like Obama because he annoys me.

but why Clinton over McCain?

[deez nuts]

but why Clinton over McCain?

A few reasons:

1)I admire a woman like Hillary. Any woman that stays with her husband after he has extramarital affairs is awesome - whether or not she stayed for personal career gains is a separate issue for me. I think most men want a wife like her; a wife that will stay with you after you fucked around.

2)McCain's cheeks and jawline or lack of a jawline freak me out.

3)McCain appears to be autistic.

4)My coin toss came up heads.

[AngryABCGirl]

I'd vote Hilary over McCain if it came down to it. But it would be because I think one is less evil.