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Nightwish
10-12-2005, 04:44 PM
Actually, north-western China was populated by caucasian (Tocharians)about 5,000 years ago. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Nightwish
10-12-2005, 04:46 PM
The Tocharians were the easternmost members of the Indo-European people, inhabiting the Tarim basin in what is now Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, northwestern People's Republic of China. Their unique culture spanned from the 1st millennium BCE (1800BCE) to the end of the 1st millennium CE.

There is evidence both from the mummies and Chinese writings that many of them had blonde or red hair and blue eyes, characteristics also found in present-day Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Central Asia, due to the populations' high genetic diversity. This suggests the possibility that they were part of an early Indo-European migration that ended in what is now the Tarim Basin in western China. According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic speakers may have pushed Tocharian speakers out of the Tarim Basin and into modern Afghanistan, India, Turkmenistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians

yoMAMA
10-12-2005, 05:37 PM
the uyghurs are caucasians.

Nightwish
10-13-2005, 04:15 PM
It's likely that these noodles belong to caucasian Tocharians, not mongoloid east asians. The noodles were discovered in Northwestern China.


The Tocharians were the easternmost members of the Indo-European people, inhabiting the Tarim basin in what is now Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, northwestern People's Republic of China. Their unique culture spanned from the 1st millennium BCE (1800BCE, about 4,000 years ago) to the end of the 1st millennium CE.

There is evidence both from the mummies and Chinese writings that many of them had blonde or red hair and blue eyes, characteristics also found in present-day Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Central Asia, due to the populations' high genetic diversity. This suggests the possibility that they were part of an early Indo-European migration that ended in what is now the Tarim Basin in western China. According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic speakers may have pushed Tocharian speakers out of the Tarim Basin and into modern Afghanistan, India, Turkmenistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan.

SunWuKong
10-13-2005, 04:35 PM
It's likely that these noodles belong to caucasian Tocharians, not mongoloid east asians. The noodles were discovered in Northwestern China.

the noodles were discovered in Minhe county of Qinghai, which is neither north enough nor west enough to where the Caucasoid mummies were found. the Caucasoid mummies were found in Xinjiang. there are Caucasians there now, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Caucasoid mummies were found there.

ahsingjai
10-13-2005, 06:15 PM
It's likely that these noodles belong to caucasian Tocharians, not mongoloid east asians. The noodles were discovered in Northwestern China.

Hui and Han populate the areas of Quahai, the rest such as the tibetans, Tu, Salar and Mongol fill in the rest of the percentages.

http://www.china.org.cn/e-xibu/2JI/3JI/qinghai/qing-ban.htm

Nightwish
10-13-2005, 06:19 PM
there are Caucasians there now

They're not really full caucasoids anymore because of generations of interbreeding.

Player 0
10-13-2005, 06:37 PM
They're not really full caucasoids anymore because of generations of interbreeding.

Your point being?

just because they aren't now doesn't it's always been that way.

SunWuKong
10-13-2005, 06:45 PM
Hui and Han populate the areas of Quahai, the rest such as the tibetans, Tu, Salar and Mongol fill in the rest of the percentages.

http://www.china.org.cn/e-xibu/2JI/3JI/qinghai/qing-ban.htm

and the Hui are actually ethnically Han. but they are recognised as an ethnic minority because they are Muslim.

SunWuKong
10-13-2005, 06:50 PM
They're not really full caucasoids anymore because of generations of interbreeding.

eh, they're just as Caucasian as the people in Europe as far as i'm concerned. plus, there are Russians living in Xinjiang also, and they are recognised as an ethnic minority in China.

DragonKnight
10-13-2005, 06:51 PM
Your point being?

just because they aren't now doesn't it's always been that way.
He just wants to prove that white people made those noodles. Makes one wonder why he's trying to hard.

Nightwish
10-13-2005, 06:55 PM
He just wants to prove that white people made those noodles. Makes one wonder why he's trying to hard.


I put it up there as a possibility. Stop being so sensitive.

eh, they're just as Caucasian as the people in Europe as far as i'm concerned.

Not really.

http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archives/photos/xinjiang/motocyclodrivers.jpg

ahsingjai
10-13-2005, 06:59 PM
and the Hui are actually ethnically Han. but they are recognised as an ethnic minority because they are Muslim.

That's why I listed Han and Hui together and not with the "minorities" like the Salar, Tu, Mongolians and Tibetans.

SunWuKong
10-13-2005, 07:01 PM
looks Caucasian to me.
http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archives/photos/xinjiang/tetrisbreak.jpg

DragonKnight
10-13-2005, 07:10 PM
I put it up there as a possibility. Stop being so sensitive.

Sensitive? How?

SunWuKong
10-13-2005, 07:14 PM
alright, chill.
i'm going to start deleting posts if this thread degenerates into a flame war.

Nightwish
10-13-2005, 07:43 PM
looks Caucasian to me.
http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archives/photos/xinjiang/tetrisbreak.jpg

That's only one person. There are some people who appear more caucasian, but the majority in those pictures look like some sort of mix.

SunWuKong
10-14-2005, 05:58 AM
this thread was split off from this:
http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=26568

SunWuKong
10-14-2005, 06:02 AM
That's only one person. There are some people who appear more caucasian, but the majority in those pictures look like some sort of mix.

they're genetically Caucasian. so are Middle Easterners like Arabs and other Muslim people like people in Afghanistan and Iraq. hey, who am i to argue with genetics?

http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archives/photos/xinjiang/businessmen.jpg

Nightwish
10-14-2005, 10:46 AM
Look, there are obviously some more caucasoid people, and some more mongoloid. But it's fairly obvious the majority have significant mongoloid admixture.

http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archives/photos/xinjiang/dumplingmen2.jpg

http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archives/photos/xinjiang/giant.jpg

http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archives/photos/xinjiang/motocyclodrivers.jpg

Napoleon Chynamite
10-14-2005, 11:19 AM
Um who cares. Are they asians that look white, or whites that look asian? Hmmmm that is a mystery. lol

draconisz
10-14-2005, 11:32 AM
That's only one person. There are some people who appear more caucasian, but the majority in those pictures look like some sort of mix.

LOL!!!

Aren't you the guy who claimed that "race" had nothing to do with looks? A Mongolian is a Mongolian. A Russian is a Russian. Looks have nothing to do with that.

SunWuKong
10-14-2005, 11:38 AM
Look, there are obviously some more caucasoid people, and some more mongoloid. But it's fairly obvious the majority have significant mongoloid admixture.

they all look Caucasian to me. beside, they're genetically Caucasian. most of the population in Central Asia and the Middle East are Caucasian.

hooligan
10-14-2005, 01:22 PM
Everyone knows that South Asians are Caucasian

Nightwish
10-14-2005, 01:24 PM
they're genetically Caucasian

Can you cite a souce that shows their genetic maps or admixture rates for people in Northwestern China? Those people do NOT look like full caucasoids like central asians or middle easterns.

Napoleon Chynamite
10-14-2005, 01:28 PM
The only "full" caucasoids are ones from the Caucasus region like around Armenia and northern Iran, and even that is debatable. My friend is Armenian. They would resemble what you would call a mixture between Middle Easterns and Southeastern Europeans. Why is everyone making a big deal about labels. Middle Easterns, Central Asians, and some northern Indians are about as full caucasoid as what you like to call "nordic" Europeans. But again, this debate is silly. Where is the relevance?

Nightwish
10-14-2005, 01:31 PM
The point is that Northwestern Chinese USED to be wholly caucasoid, and now they have significant mongoloid admixture. Sun is claiming they are still mostly fully caucasians, which is not true.

Napoleon Chynamite
10-14-2005, 01:33 PM
Assuming that you're right, and that is a big assumption, is this going to affect what any of us is having for dinner tonight? Cause if not, it's not really worth our time. But I guess I should be careful, I don't mean to speak for all of us here. All this thread amounts to is a bunch of pictures of people that kinda look Asian and kinda look Caucasian. In other words, your favorite phenotype, lol.

Nightwish
10-14-2005, 01:35 PM
I didn't claim that the Tocharians invented the noodles. I simply said it was a possibility.

Chad
10-14-2005, 03:30 PM
Uh oh... looks like we're finally discovering that there's a lot of physical variance within any one given "race"... what's going on? Is the war machine of idiocy going to slow down to a halt or will it just roll over this blip of lucidity and keep up the good fight?
Hey guys, there's frequently more morphological variation within one "race" than between races. Welcome to the 20th century! We also have moving pictures and smoothies.

SunWuKong
10-14-2005, 04:16 PM
Can you cite a souce that shows their genetic maps or admixture rates for people in Northwestern China?

they were descended from the Turks. can you cite a source that shows their genetic maps and admixture rates that shows they are not Caucasian?

Those people do NOT look like full caucasoids like central asians or middle easterns.

again, they look Caucasian to me.

Nightwish
10-14-2005, 04:32 PM
they were descended from the Turks. can you cite a source that shows their genetic maps and admixture rates that shows they are not Caucasian?

This is not how logic works. You claimed they were caucasoid, so prove it.

again, they look Caucasian to me.

Then you need to see more caucasoids.

Napoleon Chynamite
10-14-2005, 04:58 PM
Some look more caucasian and some look more asian. I apologize for being an asswipe but seriously, who cares....

Genetic differences exist, but many times the line is not so clear. Why can't people just be happy with that? Of course no shit if you have peoples from separate parts of the continent or globe who have established their homes and nations and empires since the dawn of civilization and agriculture, they're gonna end up looking different. Nobody is pure anything. I'm pretty damn sure I'm not pure Han Chinese or East Asian, a great number of White and African Americans have African and European blood intermixed respectively due to the past um...unique slaveowner/slave relationship and such.

SunWuKong
10-14-2005, 05:15 PM
This is not how logic works. You claimed they were caucasoid, so prove it.

huh? they are descended from the Turks, and you are claiming that they are not Caucasian. so it's really up to you to prove your claim.

Nightwish
10-14-2005, 05:25 PM
they are descended from the Turks, and you are claiming that they are not Caucasian

The Chinese/Mongols conquered the area and also settled there. Look up some history. Moreover, the photographic evidence clearly shows mixture. You are still claming they are wholly caucasoid, which is obviously not the case given the phenotypical and historical context.

SunWuKong
10-14-2005, 07:48 PM
Moreover, the photographic evidence clearly shows mixture.

maybe you are the one that needs to see more Caucasians?

at any rate, not only are the Uyghurs descended from the Turks, their language is as different from Turkish as Spain Spanish is from Latin American Spanish.

Chu Chi
10-15-2005, 03:28 AM
Someone needs to provide a definition of CAUCASIAN.


Is there a CAUCASIAN in the house who can tell me what a CAUCASIAN is?


Thank you.


CC

AliBabaIncorporated
10-20-2005, 06:58 AM
at any rate, not only are the Uyghurs descended from the Turks, their language is as different from Turkish as Spain Spanish is from Latin American Spanish.
Not exactly the best analogy. The difference is quite a bit bigger --- a lot more lexicon differences, and some obvious sound shifts too. Also, it's not like the Uyghurs were colonised by the folks from Istanbul. Finally, Spain and Latin America have a joint academy for their language, whereas the Turkic nations as of yet can't even agree on a joint orthography.

You can see a comparison of the same text in Turkish and Uyghur (in Latin alphabet) here:
http://www.uighurlanguage.com/logs/2004/12/uighurturkish_c.php.
Obvious similarities, but obvious differences too.

yoMAMA
10-20-2005, 04:40 PM
Not exactly the best analogy. The difference is quite a bit bigger --- a lot more lexicon differences, and some obvious sound shifts too. Also, it's not like the Uyghurs were colonised by the folks from Istanbul. Finally, Spain and Latin America have a joint academy for their language, whereas the Turkic nations as of yet can't even agree on a joint orthography.

You can see a comparison of the same text in Turkish and Uyghur (in Latin alphabet) here:
http://www.uighurlanguage.com/logs/2004/12/uighurturkish_c.php.
Obvious similarities, but obvious differences too.


dude, after mother turkey gets in the EU, all her other caucasoid cousins needs to start applying, start with xinjiang.

:wink: