More about soccer

[BeTheReds]

Okay here's what I don't get.

Many Asian-Americans ranting and raving about being periceved as foreigners.

Meanwhile in something like the world cup, they refer to the Korean or Japanese or Chinese team as "we".

In the case of the Korean vs USA game, many Korean-Americans actively supported the Korean team over the US team and called the US team "them" and the Korean team "us".

I don't have problems with people supporting whatever team they want to, because as you can see from my screen name I supported the Korean team too, (except during the game with the USA).

When I brought up this question before in some other forum someone said that it's the racist nature of sports media in this country that no asians were considered for a spot on the team. That's why they supported Korea in that particular game. What a load of crap.

Anyway, it may be trivial but I think the subject is relevant.

If a white guy went into a bar and saw a bunch of KA's rooting the Korean team against the USA, he'd think they were foriegn.

I know the argument about being percieved as a foreigner boils down to more than soccer, but I definately think that the outright support of a foreign country's team will make someone appear more foreign.

[Arex]

So the mere fact that many Asians and Asian Americans choose to maintain some degree of pride in their ethnic heritage (by rooting for Japan or Korea in the World Cup)justifies the blanket label of all Asian Americans as "foreigners" or somehow "more foreign"? I think not.

Just because "White" Americans long ago chose to shed their European heritage to basically come together as a unified group and differentiate themselves from all people of color (African, Latin, Asian, Native American), shouldn't mean that any person of color must do the same just to be seen as equally American or less foreign.

I was born in this country. My mom was born in this country. My first and only language is English. I played little league. I grew up watching the Dukes of Hazzard. I eat burgers, fries and milkshakes. Should the fact that I consider myself a Chinese American and root for the Chinese (in addition to the Americans) in the Olympics all of a sudden make me "more foreign?" Fuck that.

And I assure you, most people who have this fucked up view of all Asians, whether Asian or Asian American, as "foreigners" probably did not develop that view by walking into a Korean bar and seeing all the Koreans and Korean Americans rooting for the Korean World Cup soccer team.


Alex

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by Arex@Oct 24 2002, 12:15 AM
And I assure you, most people who have this fucked up view of all Asians, whether Asian or Asian American, as "foreigners" probably did not develop that view by walking into a Korean bar and seeing all the Koreans and Korean Americans rooting for the Korean World Cup soccer team.

To add: Asian Americans have had to put up with enough bullshit in this country to deserve the right to root for whoever the hell they want to. It's not as if our support of white institutions has made us any more "American."

[SunWuKong]

on the other hand, if a korean american was rooting for the american team instead of the korean team, i'd find him entirely too white-washed. no offense. just my honest opinion.

[achtungbaby]

Actually there were quite a few pro-U.S.A Koreans out there. I was actually shocked by their numbers. Although you wouldn't have found any amongst the 8,000+ that gathered in Koreatown for the game against Spain (they were friggen right outside my doorstep practically), according to a poll by KoreaAm Journal, Korean Americans were pretty divided.

I think Korean Americans in general are more pro-America than other ethnicities, a lot of it stemming from U.S.-involvement in WWII, the Korean War, and their current protection of South Korea from the North.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 24 2002, 05:32 PM
Actually there were quite a few pro-U.S.A Koreans out there. I was actually shocked by their numbers. Although you wouldn't have found any amongst the 8,000+ that gathered in Koreatown for the game against Spain (they were friggen right outside my doorstep practically), according to a poll by KoreaAm Journal, Korean Americans were pretty divided.

I think Korean Americans in general are more pro-America than other ethnicities, a lot of it stemming from U.S.-involvement in WWII, the Korean War, and their current protection of South Korea from the North.
well i'm not really saying just simple pro-america, but pro-america and not pro-korea when the two teams played against each other.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 24 2002, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 24 2002, 05:32 PM
Actually there were quite a few pro-U.S.A Koreans out there.  I was actually shocked by their numbers.  Although you wouldn't have found any amongst the 8,000+ that gathered in Koreatown for the game against Spain (they were friggen right outside my doorstep practically), according to a poll by KoreaAm Journal, Korean Americans were pretty divided.

I think Korean Americans in general are more pro-America than other ethnicities, a lot of it stemming from U.S.-involvement in WWII, the Korean War, and their current protection of South Korea from the North.
well i'm not really saying just simple pro-america, but pro-america and not pro-korea when the two teams played against each other.
Exactly...the poll was taken right before the U.S. and Korea played against each other. Course, I wonder about their sampling for the poll...

[BeTheReds]

I agree that everyone can support whoever they want. But I don't see how supporting the USA over Korea would make a KA whitewashed. I'd think it really odd if a KA rooted for italy or portugal over Korea, but since the USA is technically the KA's country, why would rooting for your own country over a foreign one be considered whitewashed?

I also fail to see how the USA soccer team is a white institution. Yea, there are white people on the team, but there are also many blacks and hispanics too.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 24 2002, 10:26 PM
on the other hand, if a korean american was rooting for the american team instead of the korean team, i'd find him entirely too white-washed.  no offense.  just my honest opinion.
i dunno...it's not a matter of white-washedness to me. It's a sheer matter of LOYALTY. How can you consider yourself an American if you're rooting for a foreign team? What would you think about a New Yorker who rooted for the Chicago bulls cuz they were "better?" (back when MJ was on the Bulls, of course) I call that despicable sellout asskissing-winners to me. and that is so decidedly UNAmerican that people who do that are just :pissed:

speaking of that, time to find my chainsaw and stalk down every Queens resident who rooted for the Yankees back in the 2000 World Series.


And in the World Cup, in keeping with the American tradition of rooting for the underdog, WHAT TEAM COULD BE MORE OF AN UNDERDOG THAN THE US TEAM? The rest of the world doesn't even ACKNOWLEDGE our name for the sport; they'd prefer to call it "football." (soccer involves so much more than feet, as anyone watching Shaolin Soccer w/ steven chow would have learned). I mean rooting for Korea over the USA is like saying "yeah, let the big bully on his home turf just knock the little newbie dead!" Not such a surprise, actually, come to think that the values a lot of Koreans and Korean Americans learn come from Battle.net and it's n00b-flaming forums.


*oh boy...that last statement's not only gonna take away my mod status, it's gonna get me banned like a certain Korean American from a long whiles ago.*

** I gotta stop digging myself into a bigger hole w/ these Korean jabs*



<!--EDIT|ChinaLama|Oct 25 2002, 05:21 AM-->

[BeTheReds]

Actually Japan calls it soccer too. Well, ƒTƒbƒJ�[anyway

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 25 2002, 05:43 AM
Actually Japan calls it soccer too. Well, ƒTƒbƒJ�[anyway
yeah, but Japan was basically ENSLAVED by America after WWII so they do what the hell we please.

They just take all their frustrations out by making sick sick hentai.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Oct 25 2002, 05:51 AM

yeah, but Japan was basically ENSLAVED by America after WWII so they do what the hell we please.

They just take all their frustrations out by making sick sick hentai.
I wouldn't call it enslavement, but certainly a less harsh form of colonialism. Basically our govt tells their govt what to do in most cases, and their govt tries to make the people believe it is legitimate by disagreeing with the US on trivial things like the environment.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 25 2002, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by ChinaLama@Oct 25 2002, 05:51 AM

yeah, but Japan was basically ENSLAVED by America after WWII so they do what the hell we please.

They just take all their frustrations out by making sick sick hentai.
I wouldn't call it enslavement, but certainly a less harsh form of colonialism. Basically our govt tells their govt what to do in most cases, and their govt tries to make the people believe it is legitimate by disagreeing with the US on trivial things like the environment.
i gotta have my rhetrorical flourishes. ;)

[DaBestSpooner]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Oct 25 2002, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 25 2002, 05:43 AM
Actually Japan calls it soccer too. &nbsp;Well, ƒTƒbƒJ�[anyway
yeah, but Japan was basically ENSLAVED by America after WWII so they do what the hell we please.

They just take all their frustrations out by making sick sick hentai.
dont forget the creation of the mockery of the english language, JAPAGRISH!!!!!

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@Oct 25 2002, 12:14 AM
And in the World Cup, in keeping with the American tradition of rooting for the underdog, WHAT TEAM COULD BE MORE OF AN UNDERDOG THAN THE US TEAM? The rest of the world doesn't even ACKNOWLEDGE our name for the sport; they'd prefer to call it "football." (soccer involves so much more than feet, as anyone watching Shaolin Soccer w/ steven chow would have learned). I mean rooting for Korea over the USA is like saying "yeah, let the big bully on his home turf just knock the little newbie dead!" Not such a surprise, actually, come to think that the values a lot of Koreans and Korean Americans learn come from Battle.net and it's n00b-flaming forums.
actually i believe the korean team was even more of an underdog in the world cup than the US team.


but to clarify my opinion of being white-washed. i basically think that unless you're a fob, you're white-washed anyway. i think that all asian people in the states are either fobs or they're white-washed. there are those who are wouldn't fit in either category, but they're rare.



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Oct 25 2002, 11:25 AM-->

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 25 2002, 04:24 PM

actually i believe the korean team was even more of an underdog in the world cup than the US team.


but to clarify my opinion of being white-washed. i basically think that unless you're a fob, you're white-washed anyway. i think that all asian people in the states are either fobs or they're white-washed. there are those who are wouldn't fit in either category, but they're rare.
Ok, but in that case, home team > underdrog. And even if someone is FOB, if he considers himself an American or wants himself to be considered American, then his whining about how people perceive him as foreign seems to be SHEER hypocrisy if he won't even root for the home team.

[MellowDrama]

I cheered for Korea and Japan during the WC because no one gave them a chance and always brought up the fact that they'd be "the first hosts never to qualify for the 2nd round!" and that they were taking someone else's spot, because they had TWO automatic bids, when there is traditionally only one given to the host (because before this only one country hosted the WC at a time).

So when they did it was like "HA! NOW STFU! YUO RACIST A$$H0LES!!"

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by MellowDrama@Oct 28 2002, 06:32 AM
I cheered for Korea and Japan during the WC because no one gave them a chance and always brought up the fact that they'd be "the first hosts never to qualify for the 2nd round!" and that they were taking someone else's spot, because they had TWO automatic bids, when there is traditionally only one given to the host (because before this only one country hosted the WC at a time).

So when they did it was like "HA! NOW STFU! YUO RACIST A$$H0LES!!"
Well there was never any doubt in my mind that Korea would make the second round. I was afraid though that the USA would crash out. I expected a loss against portugal and Korea and a win against poland for a total of 3 points and 3rd place in the group. I was completly wrong because somehow the US beat Portugal and lost to Poland miraculously the USA tied Korea thanks to luck and a certain crappy player named Jeff Agoos who is famous for:

Scoring on his own team in the Portugal game

Getting beat down by Ahn Jung Hwan, who is SHORTER than he is, for the header that tied the US Korea game. (not to take anything away from Ahn, I love the guy)

Getting hurt in the game against Poland, which is why the USA started to do well against Mexico. Cuz there was no Jeff Agoos.

I don't think it was particualrly racist of the people to say that Korea and Japan wouldn't make it. Just given the history of the sport and the way that each country has faired in the past, the side is heavily on the European and South American teams. How were they supposed to know that France would stumble, that Portugal would lose to the lowly USA?

[DaBestSpooner]

come on, lets be real here, teams from asia usually suck, unless they bring in some ringers, pay off a few judges, and seal a pact with the devil.



<!--EDIT|DaBestSpooner|Oct 28 2002, 10:05 AM-->

[BeTheReds]

So do you think in 2006 that people are gonna expect Korea and Japan to do well because of how they did this year or will they decide that it was just host's luck? I don't know about you, but I forsee a soccer power shift in the near future. The focus will move away from Europe and towards Asia and North America. I predict the U.S. will at least make it to the semifinal and perhaps Korea will make it to the final this time.

[MellowDrama]

Originally posted by Bethereds@Oct 29 2002, 01:24 AM
So do you think in 2006 that people are gonna expect Korea and Japan to do well because of how they did this year or will they decide that it was just host's luck? I don't know about you, but I forsee a soccer power shift in the near future. The focus will move away from Europe and towards Asia and North America. I predict the U.S. will at least make it to the semifinal and perhaps Korea will make it to the final this time.
I think either Korea or Japan will make the semi again. But the usual suspects will hold it down. Germany IN Germany = automatic final. Brazil or France will take the other spot. France has enough young guns (ironically of African and Caribbean descent) who will be major by the time 2006 rolls around, and Brazil, well, they're Brazil.

[DaBestSpooner]

whoever has the craziest haircut will win. the more risks the teams take with their haircuts, and less mainstream they are will lead to victory

Brazil's ronaldo's reverse shaolin monk cut did it for Brazil.
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/afp/20020630/i/4174583097.jpg

England lost its edge when the mohawk became mainstream.
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/en/fi/20020525/i/2081062936.jpg

Japan suffered the same faith as England, the nakata variation of the beckham became the #1 haircut in japan, causing team japan to lose its power.
http://club.nakata.net/archives/wallpaper/wp021_2t.jpg

Korea went overboard with the Jheri curl juice in the match with turkey.

http://163.152.82.95/~soccer/cgi-bin/zb/data/pds_photo/pl14.jpg

Turkey went retro with the Jim Belushi samurai deli owner do and blew past korea.
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/afp/20020629/i/582725818.jpg



<!--EDIT|DaBestSpooner|Oct 29 2002, 10:16 AM-->

[ren28]

:lol: