Pornostar...

[karizma]

>> i was watching some fox show and they did an interview with jenna jameson...the most popular and most-paid pornstar around. when asked if she thought the porn industry was detrimental to today's youth she stated that it wasnt and that she found that by doing these adult videos she was empowering herself as a women. like she was on some crusade to erase the double standards or something...do you think what she's saying holds some truth to it? do you think that what she's doing really gives women power or do you think that she's owned by media and does what she does to please men?

[SunWuKong]

i think that some porn stars or for that matter some ordinary women may find the business of being a female porn star to be actually empowering. but hardly any, if any at all, men see it that way.

[CrX3183]

Damn it must be sad because i don't even know who she is...

[artsfartsyjanet]

I definitely don't find it empowering for a woman to work as a porn star because the audience won't be looking beyond what's skin deep. I'm a humanist and find it repulsive that people choose or are pressured to go into the adult industry because it's liberating or b/c it pays the bills or puts them through college. Whatever. Everyone who supports it are accepting the objectification and devaluation of a person. Beauty doesn't mean parading and exploiting oneself for another person's gratification. It's the strength to first define one's beauty from the inside out. After all, that's what empowerment's all about.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 8 2002, 04:14 AM-->

[karizma]

>> preach on sista!! can i get an Amen?!

>> i remember shaking my head as i listened to her speak. being banged so much significantly reduced her brain cells...i cant imagine what its like to be her...walking down the streets as hushed voices talk about how much of a whore she is. who are the ones whispering about her? im guessing the majority are women...so how can someone so hated by women possibly be beneficial towards the rest of woman-kind? does she really believe that when men are jerking off to her photos and videos that theyre thinking of much good she's doing towards liberating women? nooo there thinking of how many positions they can get her in before they explode <_<

[SunWuKong]

i think the angle that she's looking at it from is that women can be and should be accepted even if they are lustful, as opposed to having society look down on lustful women.

[deez nuts]

God bless that woman!

On the real she looks the most tired from an interview I saw.

And don't most adult industry stars go into the business voluntarily and by choice. Well, thats what they are claiming on the interviews I see.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Aug 8 2002, 01:09 PM-->

[Danny]

I think the fact that she is making money enables her to feel power... which is the sad fact, if you make money you are powerful in some regards... just because she is in an industry that affords her that, more power to her... it could have been in any industry... but generally women in the pornography business, if they can avoid the illicit drug use and stay clean can become powerful.

[sandra]

some concepts that are relevant to this issue:

Mary Jackman's coercive love--specific traits compatible with the subordinate role of women are idealized and women are exhorted to strive for the ideal. the more successful a subordinate is in achieving the idealized traits (big breasts, lustful, etc.) the more lovable and sought after she becomes. within the institutionalized structure of the intergroup relationship, a women's best chance of success in life is to excel in manifesting the traits and behaviors that have been designated for her group.

Antonio Gramsci's false consciousness--the major institutions of society inflitrated by the dominant ideology, blunting women's perceptions and molding their values so that they are rendered impotent as an agent of change. the cultural hegemony of the dominant class (men) prevents the women from realizing their true interests or, indeed, from developing a value system that would provide the ideological infrastructure for revolutionary change.

this, in my opinion, is why equality is so difficult to achieve for women. so many of us are even hesitant to state that we are feminists. why? for fucking fear that guys might think we're butches and not accept us. thus, the whole, "i am all for women's rights, but i so many people tell me i'm a girly [blush]." or "it's so sad that jenna jameson has to stoop to that level. but hold on, let me put on my make-up and padded bra." in saying this, i'm not trying to be 'holier than thou' or anything of the sort. i fall into the same damn trap all the time. but at the very leaset i think we should acknowledge it. females are oblivious to their own hypocrisy so often that it makes me sick.

and then there are the guys. they'll watch with skepticism and amusement as we state their opinions. then they'll judge us on our looks. liberal and intelligent guys? they'll do this too.

[Danny]

Originally posted by kasia@Aug 8 2002, 06:46 PM
this, in my opinion, is why equality is so difficult to achieve for women. so many of us are even hesitant to state that we are feminists. why? for fucking fear that guys might think we're butches and not accept us.
The term feminist has become a word that the conservative right has basically killed, along with the words liberal, and environmentalist.

Any woman can be a feminist, but when you hear Rush Limbaugh spouting off to the entire world about feminazi's and Hillary Clinton being bad and basically any woman in the democratic party being bad, becuase they project an image of strength. These inbred hillbillies living in the backwoods, who listen to Rush and his sociopaths become the norm (IE, why Bush got elected to office, he won the rural inbred vote).

There is nothing wrong with feminists. They must stand up and their voice must be heard. The in fact are more than half of the population, they are the majority, yet they have the smallest voice when it comes to things in this world.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by kasia@Aug 8 2002, 01:46 PM
and then there are the guys. they'll watch with skepticism and amusement as we state their opinions. then they'll judge us on our looks. liberal and intelligent guys? they'll do this too.
i think it's kind of unfair to say that us guys judge women solely on women's looks. for one thing, while for most of us, a woman's looks is a make-or-break quality in whether or not we'd date her, this does not mean that we automatically disrespect the woman. just because we would not date a woman doesn't mean we disrespect her. and while most of us would love to date someone that looks like a super-model, we're not dumb enough to think that we are all able to do so. i think most guys know that to have a meaningful relationship, you've got to have compatible personalities.

so i guess what i'm saying is, give us a break. looks are important to us, but maybe not as important as you think it is to us.

[Shuriken]

I definitely don't find it empowering for a woman to work as a porn star because the audience won't be looking beyond what's skin deep. &nbsp;I'm a humanist and find it repulsive that people choose or are pressured to go into the adult industry because it's liberating or b/c it pays the bills or puts them through college. &nbsp;Whatever. &nbsp; Everyone who supports it are accepting the objectification and devaluation of a person. &nbsp;Beauty doesn't mean parading and exploiting oneself for another person's gratification. &nbsp;It's the strength to first define one's beauty from the inside out. &nbsp;After all, that's what empowerment's all about.

Thank you for your thoughts, Janet. I enjoyed reading them.

Devil's advocate question: Don't women — at least to a certain extent — objectify men as well? Would Brad Pitt enjoy the kind of career that he does today if he looked like Danny DeVito? In other words, isn't male celebrity also "skin deep"? I'm not suggesting that women are absolutely equal in society — though they ought to be — but men's visual apperance works in oppressive ways, too. BTW, I've heard a few of my female acquaintances talk glowingly about male porn stars. Do you see a difference?

"Beauty doesn't mean parading and exploiting oneself for another person's gratification." But what if the person who is "parading" is also getting something positive out of the experience? Is that still degrading? (Personally, I think that the concept of "objectification" needs to be examined and more precisely defined. I think that people in general use the term rather loosely and unthinkingly.)

One more thing, Janet: I think that the photo that you posted of yourself is very flattering. You look very nice. But since the most important beauty is "beauty from the inside out," would you consider posting a less flattering photo of yourself on this site? How about a picture of yourself when you've just gotten up in the morning? Or do you feel that it's important that we see a picture of you where you look your best? If so, isn't that also a kind of "objectification"? (I hope that these questions don't offend you.)

[SunWuKong]

Shuriken... where have i seen that username before....??? i can't remember...

[Shuriken]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Aug 10 2002, 06:36 AM
Shuriken... where have i seen that username before....??? i can't remember...
It was also my user-name on Click2Asia...

[achtungbaby]

"I enjoy the power; power of a dog bone, passive but there." -- Margaret Atwood, The Handmaiden's Tale

[artsfartsyjanet]

[QUOTE]

Thank you for your thoughts, Janet. I enjoyed reading them.

Devil's advocate question: Don't women — at least to a certain extent — objectify men as well? Would Brad Pitt enjoy the kind of career that he does today if he looked like Danny DeVito? In other words, isn't male celebrity also "skin deep"? I'm not suggesting that women are absolutely equal in society — though they ought to be — but men's visual apperance works in oppressive ways, too. BTW, I've heard a few of my female acquaintances talk glowingly about male porn stars. Do you see a difference?

"Beauty doesn't mean parading and exploiting oneself for another person's gratification." But what if the person who is "parading" is also getting something positive out of the experience? Is that still degrading? (Personally, I think that the concept of "objectification" needs to be examined and more precisely defined. I think that people in general use the term rather loosely and unthinkingly.)

One more thing, Janet: I think that the photo that you posted of yourself is very flattering. You look very nice. But since the most important beauty is "beauty from the inside out," would you consider posting a less flattering photo of yourself on this site? How about a picture of yourself when you've just gotten up in the morning? Or do you feel that it's important that we see a picture of you where you look your best? If so, isn't that also a kind of "objectification"? (I hope that these questions don't offend you.)
Thanks for your thoughts. The questions you've brought to my attention are worth asking. Thanks for bringing them up. Now, let me break them down one by one because you've given me a lot to work with. :D

Your Question: "Don't women objectify men as well?"
My Answer: It's possible.

Your Question: "Would Brad Pitt enjoy the kind of career that he does today if he looked like Danny DeVito?"
My Answer: Do you think Danny DeVito enjoys his career? If so, why compare?

Your Question:"Isn't male celebrity also skin deep?"
My Answer: Sure, it's possible on an individual basis. I personally have a different view about celebrities. When I look at a celebrity on TV (or anyone for that matter), I don't really care much for them because all I get is what's skin deep. I don't learn much about them other than the way the media portrays them.

Your Question: "BTW, I've heard a few of my female acquaintances talk glowingly abuot male porn stars. Do you see a difference?"
My Answer: I personally don't feel the need to have porn to "rock my world". My world is centered on relationships. So, I don't care for male porn stars. If anything, I think they're making a fool of themselves in front of the camera. Just my opinion.

Your Question: "But what if the person who is "parading" is also getting something positive out of the experience? Is that still degrading?"
My Answer: What's considered positive to a person "parading"? The attention? Well, a person with a mohawk can get attention. An exhibitionist gets attention. A person with a pet monkey for that matter gets attention. Are you regarding attention as the positive factor? I'm a behavioral therapist. I know enough to say that attention is a positive reinforcement. In other words, the more attention one receives, the more the behavior. In this case, the more attention, the more a person poses naked for the public. Now, attention can be divided into positive and negative depending on an individual's set of values and beliefs. Porn stars are really great about not being able to decipher the difference b/c any form of attention (positive/negative) is positive reinforcement for them. Most likely with porn, whether a person loves or hates porn, the person in porn will get the attention (positive/negative). Is it degrading? Well, once a person exposes him/herself in porn, I highly doubt the audience will be flipping through the pages or the channels and say,"Wow, I like her personality and her wit." People in porn are two-dimensional figures as they are when you flip through one page after another. Most likely, people who support porn will only use him/her in their fantasies, and to drool over in the bathroom while they jerk themselves off, or by whatever means to relieve their sexual tension rather than being satisfied or preoccupied in other endeavors. At most, pornstars are enslaved in their own images.

Your Question:"Would you consider posting a less flattering photo of yourself on this site?"
My Answer: If you want to see me sleeping during my trip to New Orleans, go to my ASC website on http://www.slu.edu/organizations/asc. I think all of my pictures are a side of myself relative to time. So, if I look like crap, then I look like crap. If I look great, then I look great. It's still ME, and I could care less what people think about the way I look because I am always beautiful any time of the day inside and out-- even when I wake up in the middle of the night. C'est la vie. =)

Your Question:"How about a pic of yourself when you've just gotten up in the morning?"
My Answer: "I don't mind but it's also a question of availability. I never really have anyone ready to take a picture of me while I'm waking up. And usually, I never think to take a picture of myself once I get out of bed."

Your Question:
"Or do you feel that it's important that we see a picture of you where you look your best? If so, isn't that also a kind of 'objectification?' "
My Answer: it's not important. If you want to see a picture of me sleeping go to www.slu.edu/organizations/asc. Heck, I was President of this organization for three years. I could care less if it "tickles your fancy" to see me asleep. =) Just because I have a picture of me smiling posted doesn't mean everyone will objectify me. People may see my picture and think, "she looks _______." Whether I'm being objectified or not depends on the individual judging me before actually getting to know me. Once I'm the subject of someone's slander or gratification, then they're objectifying me. If people see me and want to know what makes me sad, happy, or mad.... I won't feel objectified. It's a case by case ordeal.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 12 2002, 05:50 PM-->

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 12 2002, 01:53 AM
I personally don't feel the need porn to "rock my boat". So, I don't care for male porn stars. If anything, I think they're making a fool of themselves in front of the camera.


This is the thing with me. I like to view porn. I'm more into viewing lesbian porn than anything else. And this is my feelings... when it comes to ones sexuality.. being able to express your sexuality... whether its in the privacy of your bedroom, with your own partner... or in front of the camera viewed publically to others... Either way... I dont think it should be seen as something to look down upon... cuz our sexuality is something natural... thats a part of us... Some people are just capable of expressing it in different formats... So whether male or female... i dont think they're making a fool of themselves...

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Aug 12 2002, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 12 2002, 01:53 AM
I personally don't feel the need porn to "rock my boat". So, I don't care for male porn stars. If anything, I think they're making a fool of themselves in front of the camera.


This is the thing with me. I like to view porn. I'm more into viewing lesbian porn than anything else. And this is my feelings... when it comes to ones sexuality.. being able to express your sexuality... whether its in the privacy of your bedroom, with your own partner... or in front of the camera viewed publically to others... Either way... I dont think it should be seen as something to look down upon... cuz our sexuality is something natural... thats a part of us... Some people are just capable of expressing it in different formats... So whether male or female... i dont think they're making a fool of themselves...
You're entitled to your own opinion, and I'm not going to get in the way of your set of values, but I don't like to look at guys (or women for that matter) naked in a magazine when I'd rather be in a relationship with a guy first before seeing a guy naked or before expressing my sexuality. I am very confident with my sexuality in many ways, but I don't need porn to prove that I'm comfortable expressing it.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 12 2002, 05:53 PM-->

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 12 2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Aug 12 2002, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Aug 12 2002, 01:53 AM
I personally don't feel the need porn to "rock my boat". So, I don't care for male porn stars. If anything, I think they're making a fool of themselves in front of the camera.


This is the thing with me. I like to view porn. I'm more into viewing lesbian porn than anything else. And this is my feelings... when it comes to ones sexuality.. being able to express your sexuality... whether its in the privacy of your bedroom, with your own partner... or in front of the camera viewed publically to others... Either way... I dont think it should be seen as something to look down upon... cuz our sexuality is something natural... thats a part of us... Some people are just capable of expressing it in different formats... So whether male or female... i dont think they're making a fool of themselves...
You're entitled to your own opinion, and I'm not going to get in the way of your set of values, but I don't like to look at guys (or women for that matter) naked in a magazine when I'd rather be in a relationship with a guy first before seeing a guy naked or before expressing my sexuality. I am very confident with my sexuality in many ways, but I don't need porn to prove that I'm comfortable expressing it.
Exactly..
People are all different. What may suit others may not suit you. And being able to accept what suits others.. but doesn't suit you.. is called TOLERANCE...

[artsfartsyjanet]

i agree. Tolerance is apart of what makes the world go round. I'm just not tolerant when other people try to impose their views on mine.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Aug 15 2002, 11:28 AM-->