Depression Affects Men Differently Than Women

[achtungbaby]

By Denise Mann
WebMD Medical News

Reviewed by Dr. Dominique S. Walton


Oct. 10, 2000 -- Henry gets so agitated in traffic that his face turns red and he punches the steering wheel.

Marc comes home from a hard day's work and drinks a six-pack of Budweiser -- every night.

Ken, who has been on disability for six months, watches television all day long, barely speaking to anyone.

Bill smokes more marijuana now than he did when he was in high school 20 years ago.

What these men have in common was once thought of as almost exclusively a women's problem, but depression affects both sexes. It can just manifest itself differently in men, according to a California psychologist and author. While women may cry, become withdrawn, and gain or lose weight, men may abuse alcohol or drugs, work or eat excessively, and/or become violent to themselves or others, among other things.

Affecting approximately 19 million Americans, depression clearly takes its toll on both sexes. The toll is physical as well as mental: A recent study of Johns Hopkins medical students found that depressed men were twice as likely as their nondepressed counterparts to develop heart disease or die suddenly because of heart problems.

But even though 80% of people who seek help will get relief from medication, therapy, or a combination of the two, just one in three people actually seek help, according to the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Md.

And most of them are women. Because many men are brought up to believe that expressing emotions is largely a feminine trait, half as many men as women seek psychotherapy or are diagnosed with depression. This may be one of the reasons that, according to unpublished CDC findings, men in the U.S. are about four times more likely than women to commit suicide.

"We are brought up with a code that says if one shows these feelings or acts in a vulnerable way, then he is weak, a sissy, or a girl," Fred Rabinowitz, PhD, professor of psychology at the University of Redlands in Redlands, Calif., tells WebMD.

The stigma associated with male depression must be removed so men can get the help they need, Rabinowitz says. He and Sam Cochran, PhD, the director of clinical services at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, are the authors of the book Men and Depression: Clinical and Empirical Perspectives.

"Some researchers believe that women are more prone to depression biologically, more oppressed in society, and thus experience more depression," Rabinowitz tells WebMD. This same thinking, he says, holds that women "tend to be more ruminating than men, and thus more likely to focus on and talk about depressing ideas, and are permitted by society to express feelings like sadness and emotional pain -- unlike men, who must keep it hidden.

"Our take on why men show up less depressed is that men are not likely to show typical depression symptoms like crying, sadness, loss of will, verbalization of suicide intent. Instead, men are likely to keep it hidden, like they do most of the time with most feelings. Thus, others are unable to tell if a man is depressed or not."

Men at risk for depression and/or suicide include those who are feeling like they aren't measuring up any more, who feel physically weaker, sense that their lives no longer have outlets for pleasure, or who have experienced a personal loss.

"One of the biggest triggers is loss, especially of a relationship that has been supportive and sustaining," Rabinowitz tells WebMD. "Many men, when they lose their fathers or partners, experience a grief that is more debilitating than expected."

For example, a man going through a divorce may feel sorry for himself, drink too much, and feel isolated from friends and family. At work, he may do his job, crack jokes, and be one of the guys. But "when he gets home, he sits in front of a television, drinks and eats too much, and harbors private thoughts of anger that he can not fully express," Rabinowitz says.

Another trigger of depression is physical illness such as cancer or heart disease, he says, because illness is a direct attack on a man's sense of virility, strength, and self-definition.

Unfortunately, like depression, therapy also is often seen as feminine, he says. "It involves verbalizing emotions and talking about problems, which is more common for women to do with same-gender friends," Rabinowitz says. "On the other hand, boys and men tend to be less verbal and more uncomfortable in deep relationships."

Redford Williams, MD, director of the Behavioral Medicine Research Center at Duke University Medical School in Durham, N.C., and the author of Anger Kills and Life Skills, puts it this way: "Men are taught to be in control from the very beginning and are more likely than women to express anger, while women are more likely to hold anger in and get depressed."

It's harder for men to admit they are depressed because to do so would be to admit they were out of control, Williams tells WebMD.

Anyone who thinks a man they're close to may be depressed should "provide a safe place and encourage the man to talk about his feelings and be more constructive and less destructive," he suggests.

Rabinowitz agrees, adding that men must learn to live with their limitations.

"Too often, we compare ourselves to the best in whatever we are doing. If I always compare myself to Tiger Woods, I am likely to never feel good about my golf game," he says. "It is also important for men to realize that it is normal to feel down or low, and rather than run from it by using distraction, alcohol, or some addictive substance or activity, try to listen to what the emotion is telling you."

If men learn to accept that they are human beings with strengths, weaknesses, and doubts, they are likely to be more accepting of themselves and others, and less prone to depression, he says.

For more information from WebMD, visit our Diseases and Conditions Center on Depression.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Thanks for sharing. I know a few Asian men who are quite depressed because of many different complex issues either through relationships, the family, or just the self.

[amietron]

recognition is half the battle.
getting help= more power to you.
nobody has to know if you're getting help.

[bigwong235]

but what if you try getting help and it doesn't do diddly?

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by bigwong235@Sep 27 2002, 02:09 AM
but what if you try getting help and it doesn't do diddly?
well seeing a therapist or psychologist can't be compared to a virus that can be cured with a vaccine. It takes a good degree of motivation to want the help, to accept one's condition, and to takethe time to reduce these symptoms. A lot of times, the things needed to change the inner "side" requires a change in what people do on the outside. So, it takes a degree of committment, but it's possible.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Sep 27 2002, 03:01 AM-->

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by bigwong235@Sep 27 2002, 02:09 AM
but what if you try getting help and it doesn't do diddly?
If it doesn't help, then a psychiatrist will prescribe antidepressants such as Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac, Celexa in conjunction with psychotherapy.

Like Janet said, it can't be cured in one day via vaccine. And different anti-depressants have different effects on the patient.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 27 2002, 08:29 AM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 27 2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by bigwong235@Sep 27 2002, 02:09 AM
but what if you try getting help and it doesn't do diddly?
If it doesn't help, then a psychiatrist will prescribe antidepressants such as Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac, Celexa in conjunction with psychotherapy.

Like Janet said, it can't be cured in one day via vaccine. And different anti-depressants have different effects on the patient.
i think if anybody wants to prescribe you an SSRI drug, you should really go do your own research about the drug before you take it. it's like a commitment when you take those drugs because they could have detrimental side-effects and they could wreck havoc on your mental health if you suddenly stopped regular intake.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 27 2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by bigwong235@Sep 27 2002, 02:09 AM
but what if you try getting help and it doesn't do diddly?
If it doesn't help, then a psychiatrist will prescribe antidepressants such as Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac, Celexa in conjunction with psychotherapy.

Like Janet said, it can't be cured in one day via vaccine. And different anti-depressants have different effects on the patient.
i think if anybody wants to prescribe you an SSRI drug, you should really go do your own research about the drug before you take it. it's like a commitment when you take those drugs because they could have detrimental side-effects and they could wreck havoc on your mental health if you suddenly stopped regular intake.
Good point, MK. It should be applied to all prescription drugs in general. To make sure you're clear of the side effects and any drug to drug interaction.

But, in some cases with patients of deep and severe depression, sadly they are incapable of doing research on the drug and it becomes a cocktail of trial and error.

And often with the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor drugs it might lead to other long term side effects to your body. Along with problems with withdrawl and altered brain chemistry due to withdrawl, like MK said.

My personal opinion on SSRI's is that they are lifesavers, but they are so overprescribed and in the cases of both in and out patients on SSRI, they are so poorly monitored in terms of rather than lowering the dosage gradually as you see improvment, they are taken off from it, cold turkey.

And it seems like everyone is prescribing SSRI's for everything and labeled as this panacea.



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 27 2002, 10:53 AM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 27 2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 27 2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by bigwong235@Sep 27 2002, 02:09 AM
but what if you try getting help and it doesn't do diddly?
If it doesn't help, then a psychiatrist will prescribe antidepressants such as Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac, Celexa in conjunction with psychotherapy.

Like Janet said, it can't be cured in one day via vaccine. And different anti-depressants have different effects on the patient.
i think if anybody wants to prescribe you an SSRI drug, you should really go do your own research about the drug before you take it. it's like a commitment when you take those drugs because they could have detrimental side-effects and they could wreck havoc on your mental health if you suddenly stopped regular intake.
Good point, MK. It should be applied to all prescription drugs in general. To make sure you're clear of the side effects and any drug to drug interaction.

But, in some cases with patients of deep and severe depression, sadly they are incapable of doing research on the drug and it becomes a cocktail of trial and error.

And often with the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor drugs it might lead to other long term side effects to your body. Along with problems with withdrawl and altered brain chemistry due to withdrawl, like MK said.

My personal opinion on SSRI's is that they are lifesavers, but they are so overprescribed and in the cases of both in and out patients on SSRI, they are so poorly monitored in terms of rather than lowering the dosage gradually as you see improvment, they are taken off from it, cold turkey.

And it seems like everyone is prescribing SSRI's for everything and labeled as this panacea.
i've heard that SSRI drugs negate the effect of ecstasy. from what i've read about both, it seems to make sense.

so don't waste your money on E if you're on prozac! hahhah

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 11:23 AM

i've heard that SSRI drugs negate the effect of ecstasy. from what i've read about both, it seems to make sense.

so don't waste your money on E if you're on prozac! hahhah
Damn, you seem to know alot about this:

Shouldn't comment but:

SSRI (effexor, zoloft, celexa, etc) has been shown to lessen the psychedelic effects of MDMA's (ie ecstasy). But at the same time extending the MDMA's effects (Longer time but less psychedelic high). This is by no means an excuse to increase the amount of X you take when you're on SSRI, because of the effects of SSRI on the heart such as Effexor.

So bottmline, yes, you'll be wasting your cheddah!



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 27 2002, 01:52 PM-->

[SunWuKong]

yeah well i had a girlfriend who took meds every three hours everyday. i don't know how often she took what, but i know prozac and ridlin were among her prescription, along with some other drugs. plus, a counselor once tried to get me to take an SSRI. well, i also was interested in this stuff anyway because one of my majors was cognitive science. so yeah i read about them.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 01:56 PM
yeah well i had a girlfriend who took meds every three hours everyday. i don't know how often she took what, but i know prozac and ridlin were among her prescription, along with some other drugs. plus, a counselor once tried to get me to take an SSRI. well, i also was interested in this stuff anyway because one of my majors was cognitive science. so yeah i read about them.
Hope she is doing well, MK. Ritalin and Prozac? Did she have ADD or ADHD?

That's disturbing, your counselor tried to get you to take SSRI? Sheesh, they are dispensing SSRI's like pez now.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 27 2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 01:56 PM
yeah well i had a girlfriend who took meds every three hours everyday. i don't know how often she took what, but i know prozac and ridlin were among her prescription, along with some other drugs. plus, a counselor once tried to get me to take an SSRI. well, i also was interested in this stuff anyway because one of my majors was cognitive science. so yeah i read about them.
Hope she is doing well, MK. Ritalin and Prozac? Did she have ADD or ADHD?

That's disturbing, your counselor tried to get you to take SSRI? Sheesh, they are dispensing SSRI's like pez now.
she has ADD and she is also clinically depressed. they first thought she was bipolar, but then decided that was not the case. these diagnoses are so fickle. <_< that's why i would be very careful about them wanting to give you drugs.

my counselor was a psychologist, and she wanted me to go see this psychiatrist to get his opinion on whether or not i need "medication". i knew this meant an SSRI drug so i went home and thought about it and decided against it. the funny thing was that after i declined, she decided that i have "situational depression". and i remember thinking, "what the hell is that? doesn't everybody have 'situational' depression?"

anyway, i was only seeing her because it was free (she was a college counselor) and it was nice to talk to someone who could offer professional and objective opinions about my mental health.



<!--EDIT|SunWuKung|Sep 27 2002, 03:40 PM-->

[amietron]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 27 2002, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 27 2002, 11:23 AM

i've heard that SSRI drugs negate the effect of ecstasy. from what i've read about both, it seems to make sense.

so don't waste your money on E if you're on prozac! hahhah
Damn, you seem to know alot about this:

Shouldn't comment but:

SSRI (effexor, zoloft, celexa, etc) has been shown to lessen the psychedelic effects of MDMA's (ie ecstasy). But at the same time extending the MDMA's effects (Longer time but less psychedelic high). This is by no means an excuse to increase the amount of X you take when you're on SSRI, because of the effects of SSRI on the heart such as Effexor.

So bottmline, yes, you'll be wasting your cheddah!
that makes sense.
explains lots.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Yeah, I definitely think people should be cautious and aware of the side effects of their medication (for whatever reason). As for the people I've talked to who are clinically depressed and take medication, and it takes so much committment. Some of them just stop... and end up calling the crisis hotlines b/c they're on the verge of killing themselves. A lot of them don't have insurance or any means of paying for these medications... so they just stop taking them if they run out of money or if they don't have insurance. It really sucks for people who don't have that financial stability. Anyway, just be well informed about the side effects and determine how committed you are to the medication. Try alternative forms of helping to fight depression....I did a research on the relationship between exercise and stress. OF course exercise first takes motivation... but exercise can reduce stress levels. I've talked to someone though who says it doesn't really work to reduce stress by exercising, but then again, he wasn't taking his medication for depression. It's your call.



<!--EDIT|artsfartsyjanet|Sep 30 2002, 09:04 AM-->

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Sep 30 2002, 09:03 AM
Yeah, I definitely think people should be cautious and aware of the side effects of their medication (for whatever reason). As for the people I've talked to who are clinically depressed and take medication, and it takes so much committment. Some of them just stop... and end up calling the crisis hotlines b/c they're on the verge of killing themselves. A lot of them don't have insurance or any means of paying for these medications... so they just stop taking them if they run out of money or if they don't have insurance. It really sucks for people who don't have that financial stability. Anyway, just be well informed about the side effects and determine how committed you are to the medication. Try alternative forms of helping to fight depression....I did a research on the relationship between exercise and stress. OF course exercise first takes motivation... but exercise can reduce stress levels. I've talked to someone though who says it doesn't really work to reduce stress by exercising, but then again, he wasn't taking his medication for depression. It's your call.
yeah exercise induces serotonin release. it makes a person happier.

it's a funny concept sometimes, if you think about it, to rely on really sick people to take their medication regularly. my ex-gf's ADD makes her very forgetful sometimes, and she forgets to take her ritalin. how ironic is that? she has to remember to take her ritalin but the very reason she needs it makes her forget to take it...

[deez nuts]

And another fucked up part is for patients, especially for out patients that are on SSRI and not waned off from it, their depression normally gets worse due to the sudden change in serotonin levels. It is also accompanied by a greater urge of suicidal tendencies, like Janet said. So bascially, you might be back to square one and sometimes with greater symptoms.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 30 2002, 09:53 AM
And another fucked up part is for patients, especially for out patients that are on SSRI and not waned off from it, their depression normally gets worse due to the sudden change in serotonin levels. It is also accompanied by a greater urge of suicidal tendencies, like Janet said. So bascially, you might be back to square one and sometimes with greater symptoms.
yeah that's the messed up part about how SSRI works. it's not some "happy pill". it's just regulating a limited supply of serotonin. get off it too suddenly and you could be really fucked.

[wylin]

nothing a good round of smoking and drinking cant fix! thats what i always do when depressed. That or go bank on sumone on the road w/ my happy car.

shesh!

[artsfartsyjanet]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 30 2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Sep 30 2002, 09:03 AM
Yeah, I definitely think people should be cautious and aware of the side effects of their medication (for whatever reason). &nbsp;As for the people I've talked to who are clinically depressed and take medication, and it takes so much committment. &nbsp;Some of them just stop... and end up calling the crisis hotlines b/c they're on the verge of killing themselves. &nbsp;A lot of them don't have insurance or any means of paying for these medications... so they just stop taking them if they run out of money or if they don't have insurance. &nbsp;It really sucks for people who don't have that financial stability. &nbsp;Anyway, just be well informed about the side effects and determine how committed you are to the medication. &nbsp;Try alternative forms of helping to fight depression....I did a research on the relationship between exercise and stress. &nbsp;OF course exercise first takes motivation... but exercise can reduce stress levels. &nbsp;I've talked to someone though who says it doesn't really work to reduce stress by exercising, but then again, he wasn't taking his medication for depression. &nbsp;It's your call.
yeah exercise induces serotonin release. it makes a person happier.

it's a funny concept sometimes, if you think about it, to rely on really sick people to take their medication regularly. my ex-gf's ADD makes her very forgetful sometimes, and she forgets to take her ritalin. how ironic is that? she has to remember to take her ritalin but the very reason she needs it makes her forget to take it...
i always thought I was high on endorphins every time i work out.... so, it's only the seratonin level? :D

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Sep 30 2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 30 2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by artsfartsyjanet@Sep 30 2002, 09:03 AM
Yeah, I definitely think people should be cautious and aware of the side effects of their medication (for whatever reason). As for the people I've talked to who are clinically depressed and take medication, and it takes so much committment. Some of them just stop... and end up calling the crisis hotlines b/c they're on the verge of killing themselves. A lot of them don't have insurance or any means of paying for these medications... so they just stop taking them if they run out of money or if they don't have insurance. It really sucks for people who don't have that financial stability. Anyway, just be well informed about the side effects and determine how committed you are to the medication. Try alternative forms of helping to fight depression....I did a research on the relationship between exercise and stress. OF course exercise first takes motivation... but exercise can reduce stress levels. I've talked to someone though who says it doesn't really work to reduce stress by exercising, but then again, he wasn't taking his medication for depression. It's your call.
yeah exercise induces serotonin release. it makes a person happier.

it's a funny concept sometimes, if you think about it, to rely on really sick people to take their medication regularly. my ex-gf's ADD makes her very forgetful sometimes, and she forgets to take her ritalin. how ironic is that? she has to remember to take her ritalin but the very reason she needs it makes her forget to take it...
i always thought I was high on endorphins every time i work out.... so, it's only the seratonin level? :D
i'm not sure about endorphins when you work out. i've only read that exercising increases serotonin release. maybe bunboy can answer your question.

[deez nuts]

Exercise increases your endorphin levels also.

Such as the phenom called "runners high."



<!--EDIT|Chasiubao_Boy|Sep 30 2002, 06:17 PM-->

[amietron]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 30 2002, 03:14 PM
Exercise increases your endorphin levels also.

Such as the phenom called "runners high."
i think that's why i was so down last week. not necessarily down, but really really slummy. lazy and stuff.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chasiubao_Boy@Sep 30 2002, 11:14 PM
Exercise increases your endorphin levels also.

Such as the phenom called "runners high."
I read somewhere that excersize is a valid and effective method of dealing with depression.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 30 2002, 05:55 PM
I read somewhere that excersize is a valid and effective method of dealing with depression.
Good incentive for me to get off my lazy arse.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Sep 30 2002, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Sep 30 2002, 05:55 PM
I read somewhere that excersize is a valid and effective method of dealing with depression.
Good incentive for me to get off my lazy arse.
what, no more sponge bob square pants? :D

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 30 2002, 09:18 PM
what, no more sponge bob square pants? :D
What are sponge bob square pants?!?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 1 2002, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 30 2002, 09:18 PM
what, no more sponge bob square pants? &nbsp; &nbsp;:D
What are sponge bob square pants?!?
that's the show that oddtodd watches...

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Oct 1 2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by achtungbaby@Oct 1 2002, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Sep 30 2002, 09:18 PM
what, no more sponge bob square pants? :D
What are sponge bob square pants?!?
that's the show that oddtodd watches...
Ahhh, OddTodd...my hero:)