friend that finds it difficult to come out (of the closet)

[SunWuKong]

i think a good guy friend of mine is having difficulties coming out of the closet. i was hanging out with him and another guy tonight, and the other friend was talking about how he proved to himself that he's straight. then my friend said, "i like doing girls, but i'd do a guy, too." that was the first time he had said something like that, and i had been questioning his sexual orientation for a while now, but i haven't confronted him about it. so then i asked, "so you're bi, right?" but he didn't answer, and i didn't press him.

anyway, i had been suspecting for a long time that he is either gay or bi. but i've never asked him about it. he acts like he's very very attracted to women, more so than most guys i know, so that may just be him putting up an act around the guys. the first clue i got was really that he jokes about him being gay all the time, and i know how people can use humour to deal with a serious issue that they don't want to confront.

so now i'm pretty much just assuming he's bi, even though he hasn't said it in so many words. or maybe gay, but he was with his last girlfriend for 4 years, so i'm not sure. i think he is having a difficult time coming out. for one thing, i don't think he has any gay friends, and some of his guy friends aren't all that gay-friendly and can be plain homophobic.

should i help him in some way? i mean i want him to know i'm not homophobic and that he can come out to me if he wants to, or talk about it with me if he wants to. i think he thinks that i'm homophobic because he once said that he'd go for a three-some with another guy and a girl, and then i said that i wouldn't do it, and then he said that i was homophobic in a light-hearted way. (wait, am i homophobic for not wanting to be in a three-some with another guy and a girl?)

[Faithless]

I maybe naive, but what's wrong with just saying, "dude, if you're gay, that's okay with me." in some one-on-one situation?

[rice cracker]

Someone in my group who we all suspected just came out. I'm glad for him, but it makes me think that this guy, even with a large group of gay friends living in a liberal city, waited so long to come out it must be a very hard step to take. Maybe your friend just needs more time, and he's testing for people's reactions.

[Chester]

should i help him in some way? i mean i want him to know i'm not homophobic and that he can come out to me if he wants to, or talk about it with me if he wants to. I think that's about all you can do.

When I was in college, one of my closest male friends was going through the whole identity thing -- not so much wondering if he was gay, but wondering if he wanted to come out. Apparently, he also had a crush on me, which made his being in the closet ultra-complicated because he'd sometimes act proprietary about what I did with my time, but couldn't come out and say why he was acting that way. Lots of misunderstandings that I, being 18 or 19, had no idea how to deal with.

I couldn't have been direct with him as, at the time, he was still protective about being in the closet and would bristle almost violently at the suggestion that he might be gay (aggressiveness to mask the panic). I thought that I had made it clear that a person's sexual orientation wasn't an issue with me, but I think he just needed to do things on his own schedule.

We never had any penultimate argument, but we ended up drifting apart as friends. After graduation, he gave me a call out of the blue and we hashed over all this stuff (he came out of the closet senior year). It was nice to be able to finally talk about it all in the open.

Anyway...I think all you can do is let him know that you would be supportive of him coming out, if that's what he wanted to do. And, depending on how he is, you might not be able to easily tell him directly. So...it sounds kind of pithy, but I would be liberal in talking about all the current events that have to do with homosexual rights and be clear in letting him know your political/social stances on these topics so, at the very least, he knows that you're receptive in that sense.

And if you think he wouldn't freak out with a direct statement, then go ahead and just tell him, up-front, that, if he's gay or bi or straight, it makes no difference to you.

[SunWuKong]

well, he is kind of stubborn, and i think he is already over-compensating by acting very attracted to women. i think he probably has more guts about talking to random women he doesn't know than any other guy i know. i think if i just openly asked him, it may put him on the defensive. maybe i just need to find the right time to talk to him. or do you guys think that i should even bother to initiate a conversation with him about this? i mean, i'm almost certain that he really doesn't have any idea how to go about coming out to his friends.

[rice cracker]

You want me to talk to him? ;)

[Seamus]

well, he is kind of stubborn, and i think he is already over-compensating by acting very attracted to women. i think he probably has more guts about talking to random women he doesn't know than any other guy i know. i think if i just openly asked him, it may put him on the defensive. maybe i just need to find the right time to talk to him. or do you guys think that i should even bother to initiate a conversation with him about this? i mean, i'm almost certain that he really doesn't have any idea how to go about coming out to his friends.

Maybe if you don't feel like asking him directly, do so indirectly. If you're feeling really secure about yourself you could point out studly looking guys to him, or you could talk about sexual fantasies or something like that. And just let him know along the way that his sexual orientation has no bearing on your friendship.

[SunWuKong]

You want me to talk to him? ;)

hahah no. it would probably piss him off if he found out that i told you (or that i posted about it on a public forum...) even though he never told me to keep it on the down low.

but i think it would help if he has some gay friends.

Maybe if you don't feel like asking him directly, do so indirectly. If you're feeling really secure about yourself you could point out studly looking guys to him, or you could talk about sexual fantasies or something like that. And just let him know along the way that his sexual orientation has no bearing on your friendship.

point out studly guys...? errr...
i don't think i would even know how to do that...
and none of my sexual fantasies have any guys (except me) in them, so i don't think that'll help.

[Chester]

i think if i just openly asked him, it may put him on the defensive. maybe i just need to find the right time to talk to him. or do you guys think that i should even bother to initiate a conversation with him about this? i mean, i'm almost certain that he really doesn't have any idea how to go about coming out to his friends.Well, if his being in or out of the closet doesn't disrupt your friendship, then I'd say you let him do whatever he's going to do on his own schedule.

You can still find ways to let him know that you're not a bigot by just making non-personal statements, thereby letting him know the way you are without prodding him into doing something he might not be ready for (and might not even need to do, if he's not, in fact, gay or bi).

[Seamus]

point out studly guys...? errr...
i don't think i would even know how to do that...

I wouldn't know how either. But when my good friend in college came out, I was able to help normalize things between him and me by asking him about guys in a joking way at the same time that I would be talking about girls. That way, we didn't seem so different, and the genders of our respective interests just became a minor detail.

and none of my sexual fantasies have any guys (except me) in them, so i don't think that'll help.

No, no, no, there's no need for that! Just talk about anything. Above all, I'd give him some breathing room and not put any pressure on him. That's one thing I learned from my friend's coming out experience.

[moJo]

i have a friend who came out to me about his bisexuality. he's only told a handful of people, and I was #5. he hasn't told any of our mutual friends, though they've long suspected that he is not straight.

anyway, i wouldn't try to rush his coming out. i don't know what circumstances are involved, but for my friend, he and his family are fundamentalist christians(!) so that's a big obstacle right there. also, truthfully, i think most people who meet him assume he's gay or bi anyway, so...

i think what you want to do sounds like a good plan. just talk to him, and in some way reassure him that you aren't homophobic. i think he'll come out in his own time. my friend seems to be doing so slowly. telling a few friends, and hey, he just went to a gay bar a few weeks ago, for the first time. :smile:

[SunWuKong]

oh, he (and me too, actually) actually hangs out at a gay coffee shop sometimes, because it's the only coffee shop that we know of in the city that lets you smoke inside, and it also opens until 4 in the morning. i always thought he went there because of those two reasons, but now i've been wondering if there are other reasons.

anyway... uhh... are any of the gay members going to actually chime in...? :tongue:

[frcegrl]

ok...coming from a lesbian...don't push him. he'll only get defensive and retreat even more into the closet. my experience with ppl who may come out of the closet is that they ask a lot of questions and get very curious. but first, he needs to hang with gay ppl, right? do you guys have gay friends? he is prolly always testing the water with you or his other friends so just stay open...prolly watching your reaction to situations too. if he's not ready, you can't help him. just give him the safe environment and friendship that he needs now and will prolly need even more in the future.

[myself808]

what frcegrl said.
What you gotta realize is that this is a very personal thing for him and he probaly is testing peoples reation, particularly freinds/family etc.. myself would not recomend pushing the issue, and letting him come to terms on his own, even if he never does it's his issue.

[SunWuKong]

yeah i haven't pressed him on the issue except for when i asked if he's bi or not. he didn't answer and i didn't ask again. i know for a fact that other people have asked if he's gay or bi. maybe he already feels defensive about it.

unfortunately he doesn't have any gay friends. at least not to the best of my knowledge.

[nifer]

ok...coming from a lesbian...don't push him. he'll only get defensive and retreat even more into the closet. my experience with ppl who may come out of the closet is that they ask a lot of questions and get very curious. but first, he needs to hang with gay ppl, right? do you guys have gay friends? he is prolly always testing the water with you or his other friends so just stay open...prolly watching your reaction to situations too. if he's not ready, you can't help him. just give him the safe environment and friendship that he needs now and will prolly need even more in the future.


i agree. i've had two friends come out to me in the past few years. although we (their friends and i) have always kind of "knew" they were gay, we never said anything about it. treat him as you usually do. when/if he decides to come out to you, make sure he knows that he can always count on you as a friend.

[frcegrl]

how about hanging out in "gay" places or go to gay events w/o making it real obvious. like in l.a, halloween in santa monica is something everyone does, gay...straight...whatever...but we all know it's in west hollywood. or maybe gay pride..i always bring my straight friends there too. just a thought.

[SunWuKong]

how about hanging out in "gay" places or go to gay events w/o making it real obvious. like in l.a, halloween in santa monica is something everyone does, gay...straight...whatever...but we all know it's in west hollywood. or maybe gay pride..i always bring my straight friends there too. just a thought.

well, sometimes he goes to a gay coffee shop. but i don't know if that's because it's about the only place in the city that's opened till 4 in the morning and they also let you smoke (that's the reason i go, at least), or that it's very much frequented by gay people.

as far as gay events go, if he doesn't have any gay friends and he attends gay events, isn't that pretty much him coming out? i think he may get defensive about that too if i asked if he wants to go to a gay event.