Yellow Porn

[shutter]

has anyone else heard of this little project by UC Davis prof darrell hamamoto?

http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2003/10/10/asian/index.html

for those of you who haven't heard of him, he's done some great work with regards to perceptions of AsAm in media. specifically he has this great book called "monitored peril: asian americans and the politics of tv representation."

to recap the article briefly, he just made a heterosexual porn with both an asian american actress and actor, apparently a first. the impetus for this project seems to be to counter the stereotypes of the asexual asain american man, etc. also, he wants to use this as a spring board for a media company, like BET, but focusing on the asian american market.

i personally found this both interesting and disturbing. it's great and all to counter stereotypes, but through porn? i don't know...doesn't seem to sit right with me, though i can understand why he chose this medium.

i'm curious to see what others think of this...

[kitty]

I'm a little concerned, because the porn industry is contraversial enough with its objectification of the female form. Does he somehow get around that? Or is he sacrificing the empowerment of the Asian female to focus on the empowering of the Asian male?

Otherwise, I don't have a problem with a prof doing this -- I think higher education is a place where censorship of sex is ridiculous. I took a class where half the time we were watching and analyzing straight and gay porn... it was really enlightening.

[loserbutt]

http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2003/10/10/asian/index.html

pretty cool article, a heterosexual asian male video!

[ChinaLama]

This topic is already covered here:
http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=9989

can't merge for some reason, though.

[achtungbaby]

http://yellowworld.org/comments.php?id=10653_0_1_0_C

[achtungbaby]

This topic is already covered here:
http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=9989

can't merge for some reason, though.Merged.

[Blue dice]

I'm a little concerned, because the porn industry is contraversial enough with its objectification of the female form. Does he somehow get around that? Or is he sacrificing the empowerment of the Asian female to focus on the empowering of the Asian male?

Otherwise, I don't have a problem with a prof doing this -- I think higher education is a place where censorship of sex is ridiculous. I took a class where half the time we were watching and analyzing straight and gay porn... it was really enlightening.
If anything it's empowerment of females. Women are "objectified" but you have to recognize it as being a double edged sword. America is a highly feminized society, it has lost most of its political masculinity a long time ago. Marriage, relationships, and sex is all controlled largely by the woman these days. The secondary aspect is that the porn doesn't just focus on asian male/asian women it's about asian males and their sexual awakening. For instance one of the sites referenced (www.asian-man.com) is about asian males with women of various ethnicities. I think it's about time that this happened and I will predict that the pioneers of this porn niche will be rolling in dough before long. Stuff like this is highly marketable to many asian-americans and people interested in something different. Not to mention the global asian markets. I'm no porn-hound but I view it as a positive step for asian males.

[Tao]

has anyone else heard of this little project by UC Davis prof darrell hamamoto?

http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2003/10/10/asian/index.html

for those of you who haven't heard of him, he's done some great work with regards to perceptions of AsAm in media. specifically he has this great book called "monitored peril: asian americans and the politics of tv representation."

to recap the article briefly, he just made a heterosexual porn with both an asian american actress and actor, apparently a first. the impetus for this project seems to be to counter the stereotypes of the asexual asain american man, etc. also, he wants to use this as a spring board for a media company, like BET, but focusing on the asian american market.

i personally found this both interesting and disturbing. it's great and all to counter stereotypes, but through porn? i don't know...doesn't seem to sit right with me, though i can understand why he chose this medium.

i'm curious to see what others think of this...where do i sign up?

[stunninglyAsian]

Hahahaha... Imagine an AA TV channel- AET!

-We could have our own rap city with Jin
-Several Top Ten video countdown shows like 32nd and Broadway
-and lots of cool programming!

[yangbahn50]

I've just read the article on the homepage in regards to Asian porn movies.

Mr. Hamamoto brought up a good point how many Asian porn movies have an Asian female getting f*cked by a white honky.

That's really turns Asian guys off....well...especially me. For the ultra-horny Asian males...its no concern...as long as they see the female nude.

Anyhow...it makes me mad how white males take advantage of these Asian females. Many of these Asian females have limited English skills...many from China, Japan, or Vietnam.

Yes,...I admit I watched an Asian porn flick before. It was about an asian female giving a whiteboy a blowjob. Then he wanted to cum on her face....but she blocked her face ...cuz of course...who wants a gringo's filthy cum dripping of your face? Then the whiteboy gets mad and says "move your goddamn hands!". Shit. If I were that girl, I'd get a tube of ben gay and rub it all over his balls!

Anyhow,...if an asian male were to have sex with an asian female in porn movies...that would really gain my attention.

[kitty]

If anything it's empowerment of females. Women are "objectified" but you have to recognize it as being a double edged sword. America is a highly feminized society, it has lost most of its political masculinity a long time ago. Marriage, relationships, and sex is all controlled largely by the woman these days. The secondary aspect is that the porn doesn't just focus on asian male/asian women it's about asian males and their sexual awakening. For instance one of the sites referenced (www.asian-man.com) is about asian males with women of various ethnicities. I think it's about time that this happened and I will predict that the pioneers of this porn niche will be rolling in dough before long. Stuff like this is highly marketable to many asian-americans and people interested in something different. Not to mention the global asian markets. I'm no porn-hound but I view it as a positive step for asian males.


I'm sorry... I've heard this argument before and I just don't really buy it. Women are not empowered by being objectified (made into sex objects for the pleasure of men, as is seen in most straight porn) -- they may wield some power by being attractive to men in this male-dominated society, but this still subjugates them as inferior to and catering to men. As I said, Asian male empowerment is all well and good, but it doesn't really do much for the Asian female struggle to be seen as more than a mere sex object.

[kitty]

yangbahn, is it really necessary to use racial epithets, even if it's directed towards whites? It's still against the YW guidelines.

And, uhm...

A) You don't know that all Asian women in the porn industry are immigrants with poor English language skills. Some may be Asian Americans who are willingly being porn stars.

B) Have you considered that your desire to see an Asian female with an Asian male in porn rather than with a white male is still objectifying of women? Regardless if it's an Asian male or a white male, women in the porn industry are generally shot as sex objects for the gratification of men. The girl getting cum shot in the face isn't because of the white man but because the director does this with EVERY female porn star in EVERY porn flick.

I'm not saying that Asian males aren't underrepresented in the porn industry, I'm just saying that there are more problems with it than just Asian male angst (no offense).

[SunWuKong]

If anything it's empowerment of females.

come on now. isn't it a little absurd to think that porn actually empowers women? i mean, sure, there are individual women that may find personal empowerment in it, but in my opinion, nothing, from the production of porn, to how porn is received by its consumers, is empowering to women as a gender.

[ChinaLama]

Since sex isn't always demeaning toward women, then is it appropriate for me to say that porn is not always demeaning toward women, since porn is sex performed for the camera? If my premise is proper, what sort of porn would be NON-demeaning toward women and treat them on equal basis as men? Perhaps then we can really judge whether the "yellow porn" furthers empowerment of Asian American men and women, or if it tries to empower Asian American men at the expense of Asian American women.

[kitty]

none. straight porn is pretty much always objectification of women... gay porn is objectification of men. It's the nature of porn that the actors in it are turned into sex objects -- usually only the women in straight porn. So I don't see how this could be empowering to anybody ... except if you're using a means of demeaning women to "give" Asian males a sense of male sexuality.

[Deadpool]

Asian in Mainstream American Porn
------> http://www.asahi.com/english/weekend/K2001102100153.html

I have a link with him in a pic in a compromising position and engaged in a threesome with a girl and a black dood.
PM me for the link :D

[kitty]

Mario is strangely hypnotic...

[kitty]

True there's plenty of nasty Asian American gals as well as FOB's who do many nasty shit seen in porn movies... how they'll ever get any respect I just won't know..


Because there are women who think it is a lucrative career. Which it can be... for some. Asia Carrere for example is reportedly a member the high-IQ MENSA organization and a one-time English teacher before becoming a porn star. For some women, they feel like they're earning their money a way they feel comfortable with...

And what kind of nasty shit are we talking about... or is it just nasty shit that people fantasize or do anyways, but are too afraid to admit to publicly?


woe-is-me! who cares? women want to be objectified sometimes. why do they always constantly walk around with make-up and short skirts in nightclubs if they did'nt want to be objectified?

Women in short skirts and make-up aren't trying to be objectified -- they are trying to be attractive. Being in a porn movie is BEING a sex object whereas a dressed-up woman is trying to arouse attraction. Maybe if she lobotomized herself before hitting the club, she would be trying to be a sex object... But dressing up is part of the dating game... I think it's a little different than being cum on by six or seven guys.

[loserbutt]

bah, Kittygirl, you're thinking along mysogenist lines anyways. So in heterosexual porn, where a male and a female are filmed engaging in a sexual act, the woman is objectified and the male is viewed in a favorable light? This is like a promiscuous woman being deemed a "slut" while a promiscuous male being deemed a "stud." You're just reinforcing the male dominated view.

[Blue dice]

I'm sorry... I've heard this argument before and I just don't really buy it. Women are not empowered by being objectified (made into sex objects for the pleasure of men, as is seen in most straight porn) -- they may wield some power by being attractive to men in this male-dominated society, but this still subjugates them as inferior to and catering to men. As I said, Asian male empowerment is all well and good, but it doesn't really do much for the Asian female struggle to be seen as more than a mere sex object.
Your problem seems to be more about women in porn than anything the article really talks about. The fact that asian women were in that porn shoot is mostly coincidental, it could have just as easily been a white, black, or latina woman. As far as women in porn being portrayed as inferior and catering to men, that's a fantasy that has no basis in actual reality these days. That's what porn is though a fantasy for people. At least with a AM/AF there isn't a racist element that's evident in white on asian porn. I see nothing wrong with equitable heterosexual sex in porn. Your claim that hetero porn is intrisically objectifying women is kind of unfounded when you consider all the male porn stars that are ridiculed and mentioned in the mainstream (ron jeremy and peter north.) It makes all male porn stars look like dopey ugly retards with 12" peckers.

Furthermore I still believe it advances women's rights they may be objectifying themselves but they are getting paid LOTS of money to do it. Sex is a one way street in America, women have the ultimate perogative in most relationships from start to finish.

Also, most women in the American porn industry know what they are getting into. I don't believe in innocent "lost" starlets in that business because people have such a thing called free will.

[kitty]

If you read my comment, I said explicitly that the woman is being objectified but I didn't say the man is in a favourable light.

The man is also being objectified... he's just a dick attacked to a big flesh-coloured blob that goes off-screen. I'm not sure how this is mysognisitc if I'm not differentiating among sexes. All I can say about this project is that it *might* be considered good to be giving Asian males a sense of masculinity... but even that is questionable.

[achtungbaby]

Where can I sign up?!?

:)

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Where can I sign up?!?

:)

Yea seriously, there better not be some obligatory $40 application fee or some shit. I'll send mine in along with my academic scholarship proposals ^^

[Shuriken]

America is a highly feminized society, it has lost most of its political masculinity a long time ago.

You're joking, right? When the United States finally gets a female President, and when it stops unilaterally attacking other nations on flimsy pretenses just to get its jollies, I'll start taking this argument seriously.


:angry:

[hooligan]

personally, i'd like to see an asian male porn star for once. not that i watch porn or anything ;)

[Shuriken]

I'm a little concerned, because the porn industry is contraversial enough with its objectification of the female form. Does he somehow get around that? Or is he sacrificing the empowerment of the Asian female to focus on the empowering of the Asian male?

Otherwise, I don't have a problem with a prof doing this -- I think higher education is a place where censorship of sex is ridiculous. I took a class where half the time we were watching and analyzing straight and gay porn... it was really enlightening.

K.G., I think that you're throwing around the term "objectification" too liberally. I've been thinking about starting a thread about "objectification," but it seemed to be too sticky a topic to ever get around to doing. Suffice it to say that — although often subject to abuse by men (especially when such abuse results in anorexia and bulimia) — there is a certain power in women's ability to be able to look good and attract men. I'm not saying that is the most important thing about women — or even the most attractive thing about them. But it is a power nonetheless, and I think that the term "objectification" implies that women are 100% powerless in terms of their sexuality.

Also, to me, "objectification" suggests dehumanization, and I do not regard all porn (hard- or soft-core) to inherently dehumanize women.

Even Laura Mulvey revised her theories of women's "to-be-looked-at-ness" that she expounded in her article "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema." I think that all thoughtful discussions of this topic should take nuance and perceptual playfulness into account — and not be so hard and fast, which will only lead to dogmatism. Have you read Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the "Frenzy of the Visible" by Linda Williams (University of California Press)? It's very nuanced on ideas about "objectification."

[thaite]

Harry Mok is da man!

[achtungbaby]

You're joking, right? When the United States finally gets a female President, and when it stops unilaterally attacking other nations on flimsy pretenses just to get its jollies, I'll start taking this argument seriously.


:angry:From a strictly Asian-advocacy perspective, he has a point. The "Asian progressive agenda" is a staunchly feminine one. That's not necessarily bad, but it is true. There are all sorts of issues germane to Asian males that don't always fit the sometimes-cardboard cookie cut out of what "Asian progressiveness" may seem to be.

[achtungbaby]

But it is a power nonetheless, and I think that the term "objectification" implies that women are 100% powerless in terms of their sexuality.So is there a certain power in pornography...?:)

I believe in the idea that men and women are different, and so too are some of the tools we use to subjugate.

[achtungbaby]

Yangban, if you read the article, why didn't you just click on the "Discussion" link? It would have brought you to the proper thread.

Merging.

[kitty]

K.G., I think that you're throwing around the term "objectification" too liberally. I've been thinking about starting a thread about "objectification," but it seemed to be too sticky a topic to ever get around to doing. Suffice it to say that — although often subject to abuse by men (especially when such abuse results in anorexia and bulimia) — there is a certain power in women's ability to be able to look good and attract men. I'm not saying that is the most important thing about women — or even the most attractive thing about them. But it is a power nonetheless, and I think that the term "objectification" implies that women are 100% powerless in terms of their sexuality.

Also, to me, "objectification" suggests dehumanization, and I do not regard all porn (hard- or soft-core) to inherently dehumanize women.


Most porn involves using the woman as pretty much an animated blow-up doll, and men as penises attached to anonymous bodies. As in my other post, somewhere, both males and females are inherently dehumanized or even objectified by the porn industry, just by the sheer nature of what it is meant to do.

No one, as far as I know, is watching porn for the character development and interpersonal reactions.



Even Laura Mulvey revised her theories of women's "to-be-looked-at-ness" that she expounded in her article "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema." I think that all thoughtful discussions of this topic should take nuance and perceptual playfulness into account — and not be so hard and fast, which will only lead to dogmatism. Have you read Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the "Frenzy of the Visible" by Linda Williams (University of California Press)? It's very nuanced on ideas about "objectification."

I admit I'm not having a very articulate day. Women have a certain power, and maybe the term "objectification" is being used too liberally when I should be using demeaning or dehumanizing, however I think people are still ignoring my major point which is my wondering how someone can use the avenue of porn to try and provide a sense of male sexuality to Asian males?

I haven't read the revised Mulvey essay, so I'm still thinking of the original term and usage of her "to-be-looked-at-ness" word. I guess what I'm trying to say is that porn is a more complicated medium -- it provides a sense of empowerment, but while maintaining a role of subjugation to the fantasies of the men, and in that sense, are we prioritizing one kind of oppression over another form of subjugation?

I'm not sure if my other posts in the other Yellow Porn thread have been merged into here, but there I elaborate on that.

[achtungbaby]

...how someone can use the avenue of porn to try and provide a sense of male sexuality to Asian males?I think I understand where you're coming from kittygirl: there's a lot of crap that comes out of porn, and none of it is really good. Understood. I can't reply at length to the subject immediately, but I would just suggest that you leave your mind open to the possibility -- that you, as an Asian female, might not intrinsically relate to the emasculation crap that Asian males bitch about on occasion.

Sure, we know it probably isn't the most empowering vehicle out there, but -- without having read too much of the article or about Professor Hamamoto, I'll admit right now -- this seems more about trying to make a broad statement against some pretty entrenched ideas, that the white male/asian female archetype is the prevailing one, and hey, even though it's not empowering, or might not be the best way to celebrate or express male sexuality, as you seem to imply, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to break it down either on occasion.

[kitty]

thanks ab, actually I feel like I understand, at least theoretically, the concepts of Asian male emasculation and I can understand why people might see it as a good thing to finally be featured in a porn movie... I'm just trying to present the other side of the coin.

[YuheiCarreau]

I just think it's a dumb idea. American media needs good examples of Asian men, and I don't see how having an Asian porn star is gonna provide one. I mean, how stupid would it sound if a White guy were like "Peter North empowers me!"?

[achtungbaby]

I mean, how stupid would it sound if a White guy were like "Peter North empowers me!"?Sure, you may not hear a white guy speak such nonsense out loud, but even more rare is a guy thinking that Asian males could never be a Peter North.

And how the hell do you know who Peter North is anyway!

[achtungbaby]

I'm just trying to present the other side of the coin.Same here:)

[ChinaLama]

I just think it's a dumb idea. American media needs good examples of Asian men, and I don't see how having an Asian porn star is gonna provide one. I mean, how stupid would it sound if a White guy were like "Peter North empowers me!"?
dude, plenty of people worship Ron Jeremy and he's one ugly mofo.

[Irezumi Kiss]

And how the hell do you know who Peter North is anyway!

Good thing he didn't say Jake Steed...

heh heh

:retard:

[Blue dice]

I just think it's a dumb idea. American media needs good examples of Asian men, and I don't see how having an Asian porn star is gonna provide one. I mean, how stupid would it sound if a White guy were like "Peter North empowers me!"?
Then what you're asking is that asians fit into a specific mold of "positive" roles, isn't that kind of what American society expects of us to begin with? Asians aren't allowed to be individuals in this society and I see this sentiment has even filtered down to fellow asians. I could care less if an asian male chooses to be a porn star, good for him he's in a role where there are few asian men and IMO it _is_ a positive thing to dispel the common emasculation of asian men.

Also, remember there is a certain appeal with being "bad" at the same time.

[Blue dice]

If you read my comment, I said explicitly that the woman is being objectified but I didn't say the man is in a favourable light.

The man is also being objectified... he's just a dick attacked to a big flesh-coloured blob that goes off-screen. I'm not sure how this is mysognisitc if I'm not differentiating among sexes. All I can say about this project is that it *might* be considered good to be giving Asian males a sense of masculinity... but even that is questionable.
Seeing an asian man have sex onscreen in this society kind of proves masculinity. The U.S. media has a certain aversion in showing asian men as anything but technical automatons, asexual kung fu masters, or banking nerds. IMO, any exposure that shows asian men as anything but that is a progressive step forward.

[YuheiCarreau]

Then what you're asking is that asians fit into a specific mold of "positive" roles, isn't that kind of what American society expects of us to begin with? Asians aren't allowed to be individuals in this society and I see this sentiment has even filtered down to fellow asians. I could care less if an asian male chooses to be a porn star, good for him he's in a role where there are few asian men and IMO it _is_ a positive thing to dispel the common emasculation of asian men.

Also, remember there is a certain appeal with being "bad" at the same time.

Well, I'm not gonna lobby against AA men in porn. I'm just not going to support them, champion them, or take any pride in what they do. I could give two shits. What does bother me is the assumption that because I am an Asian man I should support this idea. American media emasculates Asian men; and though there are quite a few men and women who derive their concept of masculinity from what they see in pornos, I have yet to meet a person like this that I'd want as a friend or lover. I think I'd rather support an Asian actor who can act with his clothing on, who can gain respect and authority without holding a ruler up to his dick. I don't care what kind of example Asian men set in American porn, but I can't understand how I'm going to benefit from their actions.

[Everglaze]

Well, I'm not gonna lobby against AA men in porn. I'm just not going to support them, champion them, or take any pride in what they do. I could give two shits. What does bother me is the assumption that because I am an Asian man I should support this idea. American media emasculates Asian men; and though there are quite a few men and women who derive their concept of masculinity from what they see in pornos, I have yet to meet a person like this that I'd want as a friend or lover. I think I'd rather support an Asian actor who can act with his clothing on, who can gain respect and authority without holding a ruler up to his dick. I don't care what kind of example Asian men set in American porn, but I can't understand how I'm going to benefit from their actions.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying....

it's rather the asian man who can act without having to engage in porn that gets the support, not the opposite way around.

[kitty]

I agree that an Asian male in porn shouldn't be protested, but nor should it be championed. It just seems like the wrong way to reach Asian male empowerment and re-sexualization.

[loserbutt]

can you say

"meeeee soooooo hoorneeey"?

[ellsworth81]

i think there can be tasteful forms of pr0n. most of the stuff out there is just schlocky and campy. they tend to only stimulate visceral, superficial aspects of the brain. Bring in some plausible emotion that the audience can identify with, and maybe you'll have something semi positive. I mean, AMs and AFs interacting romantically is rare enough as is (except for asian movies).

i guess something along the lines of softc0re plot lines and production budgets combined with the show-all nature of the other stuff wouldn't be too bad ... right?

[deez nuts]

my friend was gonna sign up and wait in line to be in one of the greatest gangbang series. i think the annabelle chong one when we were in college.

he got caught by his girlfriend.

[ellsworth81]

woe-is-me! who cares? women want to be objectified sometimes. why do they always constantly walk around with make-up and short skirts in nightclubs if they did'nt want to be objectified?

You know, I'm surprised the women on this forum haven't really responded to this at all. I thought this was a pet peeve for women in general... and is analagous to the "don't all asians know martial arts?" ?

Anyway, to a certain extent, he's correct. There are some *freaky* women (as well as freaky men) out there who have no qualms with being treated like meat...

But the women out there must admit, it's awfully confusing for the guys out there. I know some (as far as I know) prissy girls who wouldn't mind wearing the tube tops and the mini-skirts. And they know it will attract all sorts of attention. Is it the only way you can feel attractive about yourself is by dressing less? And by dressing less, gals are sending signals - that they are confident in their sexuality and perhaps more liberal than the typical square out there.

And when we see that hot number in the see-thru blouse is *also* going commando, of course guys will get frustrated only to find out that she was not interested in meeting guys at all that night. For once, a guy was able to find a gal as freaky as him, and he gets denied. He feels cheated.

I've heard women voice a similar sentiment of disappointment when some say that all the "hot" guys are gay or turn out to be gay at the end of the night.

And finally, just want to end this by saying that I often hear ppl rationalize or attribute a girl's rape because she dressed a little scandalously. I'm definitely not one of those people, but there are few, if any, reasons at all to justify rape.

On the other hand, I am still interested in discussing this topic of why girls dress provocatively and all (major and minor) results of doing so ....

[ellsworth81]

my friend was gonna sign up and wait in line to be in one of the greatest gangbang series. i think the annabelle chong one when we were in college.

he got caught by his girlfriend.

did she ever get into the guiness book ?

[Ying-Wai]

edit: I changed the color to something less bright because it was illegible. sorry...

I think in order to debate this issue, it's important to think of how one views porn to begin with. and then maybe what it means for a woman to be in porn versus a man, because gender roles play a part as well. it's different to see a man in porn than it is to see a woman in porn, rite? so if the profs' reason is to get asian males represented in the porn media/industry b/c of the many stereotypes that exist with asian males being asexualized and invisible than hey...why not?

[kitty]

edit: I changed the color to something less bright because it was illegible. sorry...

I think in order to debate this issue, it's important to think of how one views porn to begin with. and then maybe what it means for a woman to be in porn versus a man, because gender roles play a part as well. it's different to see a man in porn than it is to see a woman in porn, rite? so if the profs' reason is to get asian males represented in the porn media/industry b/c of the many stereotypes that exist with asian males being asexualized and invisible than hey...why not?

then so what about the ramifications of the woman's portrayal?

[kimpossible]

woe-is-me! who cares? women want to be objectified sometimes. why do they always constantly walk around with make-up and short skirts in nightclubs if they did'nt want to be objectified?

You know, I'm surprised the women on this forum haven't really responded to this at all. I thought this was a pet peeve for women in general... and is analagous to the "don't all asians know martial arts?" ?


I can't speak for all the ladies here but it's most likely a case of look at the source of the comment. There's no real substance to respond to in what you quoted and it reeks of flamebait anyhow, conclusion: pointless.

A lot of what you said ellsworth was substantive and interesting. I'd like to copy your post sometime and answer it in the women's forum. I think there's a thread about dressing provacatively.

[kitty]

yep, I tried to split it into it's own thread but for some reason, when I did it, I couldn't find the post (it was very weird.. it's like it disappeared from the thread)... so I just started a new one.

[etcj]

Hey, I think it's great that an Asian male is willing to wiggle his peepee in a porn video. I'm just wondering if he hung or not, but I guess I should be grateful that they got him anyways.

My beef with the porn industry is that they always exploit Asians from other countries to produce cheap videos by paying the actors lower rates than their American counterparts. Is it a form of discrimination or just a matter of globalization?

So who's gonna let me borrow that video?? :happy:

[havok]

I think people underestimate how powerful the porn industry is. It is a multi-billion dollar industry and one of America's biggest cultural exports (no joke). Whether people admit it is relevant or not, it is a huge medium which can reinforce or break stereotypes.

[kasia]

i think i mentioned before that he was my professor back in my college days. he's the one who was advocating for asian male models on calendars - my friend actually helped him with that project.

in his class, we also called soul train and asked why they never invited asian male dancers but always asian female dancers. they were very responsive and put an asian male up the following week.

dr. hamamoto was my only B that year. i think he just hated me.

[Irezumi Kiss]

in his class, we also called soul train and asked why they never invited asian male dancers but always asian female dancers. they were very responsive and put an asian male up the following week.

Ha! You made me smile!

Soul Train is a little too West Coasty and not what it used to be for my tastes, but you did the right thing!

:eat_arrow

[AngryABCGirl]

i think i mentioned before that he was my professor back in my college days. he's the one who was advocating for asian male models on calendars - my friend actually helped him with that project.

in his class, we also called soul train and asked why they never invited asian male dancers but always asian female dancers. they were very responsive and put an asian male up the following week.

dr. hamamoto was my only B that year. i think he just hated me.

People have been telling me to avoid Hamamoto. I kind of want to sit in on one of his lectures and see who he is and what kidn of a prof is he.

[Faithless]

personally, i'd like to see an asian male porn star for once. not that i watch porn or anything ;)

It's possible, if anyone is interested in checking this list:

Yahoo list (http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Sexuality/Adult_Movies/Porn_Stars/Male_Stars/)

[robotic]

we cant watch pornography, mainly because internet service providers block such sites on the internet Q_Q! computers in china, and in the middle east, are usually heavily filtered, in case anyone is speaking against the government, or wants to distribute pornographic or 'inappropiate' material.

[mr. x]

we cant watch pornography, mainly because internet service providers block such sites on the internet Q_Q! computers in china, and in the middle east, are usually heavily filtered, in case anyone is speaking against the government, or wants to distribute pornographic or 'inappropiate' material.

eh think of it as a blessing, out of site out of mind

[sir_humpslot]

i just found this thread so apologies for being late to the party. anyhow, the reason i'm responding to this thread is because of the documentary "masters of the pillow" was shown @ UCD last week and some AF apologist panelist brought up the same sort of objections to porn as being demeaning and objectifying of women.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=15828


first off, i wonder the women who vehemently oppose porn has seen enough of it to make such judgements? since there are so many different types of porn out there, why are these women watching porn? :tongue: if not, then how can you judge porn simply based on some feminist classes thru second hand accounts?

the real point of this post is that like people have already stated, AF/AM porn of asian-american variety are sorely lacking and that goes for any type of positive AF/AM relationship reinforcers. having this porject is blatant and "in your face" kind of commentary about healthy asian-american self-image and pride. as such, there's a very subtle point the documentary didn't expound upon, that of the girl saying how WM always try to be rough and lay it into her and it was different with the AM porn actor because he was gentle and caring. the point that dr. hamamoto brought this up is because of all the objectification/dehumanizing issue related with porn.

mainstream porn is about fantasy and the most prevelant fantasy is having some sort of control over male machisimo in this world of gender equality and hyper-feminization as reaction to the corporation ladder working woman. and this is the reason why WM porn is about subjugation of and domination over women. you can see this in BM/WF and even more prevalently in WM/AF porn where the hypersexualized BM caricature dominates WF and WM subjugates AF via that good old colonialist mentality. as such, dr. hamamoto brings up the very subtle question of asking why the AF thinks WM/AF porn is about objectifying or laying it into the AF very rough. it's about a matter of control and subjugation of AF thru all the years of wars in asia and hypersexualizing the AF.

however, it's wrong for AF on this board and elsewhere to assume that simply because mainstream WM/AF porn is about domination and objectifying of AF that AM/AF porn will be the same. since this is the first american AF/AM porn ever made we'll have to see the footage and if they're actually enjoying it instead of a power issue as per WM/AF porn -- and i think the girl in the documentary did state she felt more comfortable and into doing the deed with the AM porn actor. WM/AF porn is about the inheritance of all the colonialist mentality whereas AM/AF porn is more natural in terms of providing a healthy outlet of fostering self-pride and love of each other rather than domination.

obviously, my view depends on and stems from the belief that sex is a healthy human behavior if engaged by people who respect each other rather than BS power issues of who's dominating who -- unless the woman always insist to be on top. :biggrin:

[AngryABCGirl]

[QUOTE=sir_humpslot]i just found this thread so apologies for being late to the party. anyhow, the reason i'm responding to this thread is because of the documentary "masters of the pillow" was shown @ UCD last week and some AF apologist panelist brought up the same sort of objections to porn as being demeaning and objectifying of women.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=15828

Actually I brought up the question(if that's what you're refering to) as the moderator because I thought it'd bring up some simulating discussion, no reflections of my own opinion, although obviously it worked. If I had been on the discussion panel, you probably would have heard many opinions that reflected your own.

Personally for me, I feel like what we need is more than porn, we need realistic love stories between Asian-American men and women, because otherwise we risk just reversing the roles of men dominating women like most porn is. There is very little porn out there that women can really enjoy, even though many women do watch porn, but quite frankly there's not much out there that doesn't involve some man just drilling and pounding the shit out another woman. This is especially true for Asian-American women, because we don't like seeing White men rough with us anymore than you do, maybe even moreso than you. But in the pure penetration and pumping of pornography, I doubt the sexual oppression of Asian-American women will be ameilorated with an Asian-American male pairing, at least this is the case with Asian porn. Until the porno industry does cater more to women in general, I really believe the sexual oppression of women, and especially Asian-American women will continue. Unfortunately, the way the industry and all industry works is simply supply and demand. Sadly though, people out there like seeing Asian-American women and women in general to be in positions where they are subjugated to men.

As for another reflection, I do think in general that when some men in America see an Asian woman, he does have some assumption she's a girl who can be dominated and someone who should submit to him. This is exemplified in many White male relationships, as alluded to in the pornography of "White guys being too rough," which rings true in some levels in my own experiences and of Asian men being more caring and gentle. Personally I feel safer and a greater sense of trust maybe I shouldn't feel when my female Asian friends are with Asian men. However what I have to understand I can't dictate what everyone else does.

I really do hate how Asian-American sexuality is even there and so politicized, I hate how we've reduced lovemaking into fucking to stick it to the man. I hate how we've come to demonize any Asian girl who has sex with anyone outside their race, it's become so damn stupid. What use to be about immigrant women being taken advantage of and the inferiorty complexes of some Asian-American women have been dramatized to play on our worse terrorital instincts and prejudices. It's really bad when you make something primal and something intimate, something very private and sometimes sacred into something used for political empowerment and something hurtful, which I kinda feel Hamamoto is doing with this project. You know you can make sex hot, erotic, dirty, freaky, put it on the tv on your porno and do whatever it is you do with your lover, but please don't use it to pry on people's insecurities and anger. It's fucking sick to use sex as something hurtful, I can't emphasize that on so many levels. Honestly when I was watching the documentary, which I enjoyed, I also thought that this is just gonna encourage more sexual violence and jealousy in our communities. In addition, his rhetoric and his obvious hatred of anything interracial is something I really can't tolerate. You know honestly what we need in Asian-American sexuality isn't more cheap sex, what we need is more honestly and love.

But I do like how Professor Hamamoto's project has stimulated a discussion and a dialogue in the Asian Pacific Islander American community here at UCD and elsewhere. The issues of sexual oppression is hard for many Asian-Americans to talk about because the lack of sexual education we recieve due to partially deprived of any healthy sexual attitudes from Asian culture because we are not exposed to that part of Asian culture in America due to the lack of media most of us have. So for us, we're kind of running the gamut on our so to speak, and I'm glad that we're finally getting some traces of an Asian-American sexual identity. I just hope it goes toward a much healthier direction than what we have now.



(On a sidenote, if you are going to keep personally insulting me and otherse and members of the organization that put up the film festival or were on the panel, we are all availible if you want to speak with us personally with the expection of the documentary filmmaker James Hou who doesn't live in this area. Private message if you want my office hours or contact info, or that similiar information for the other panelists because we all work at UCD under Student Affairs with the exception of our president Justin, whom I can also get you in contact with. If you want a straight out insult since you seemed to want on, it's really sad that you're doing this behind the screen.)

-Bessie
UCD Cross Cultural Center APIA Intern 04'-05'
Liason, Asian-American Film Festival Committee 03'-04'

[sir_humpslot]

before reading my reponse perhaps people can take a look at the writings of A REAL EMPOWERING AF who we AM love instead of those pseudo-liberal apologists who pander to and wants to justify WM/AF but who's only reason is to further emasculate we AM.

http://modelminority.com/article765.html

I LOVE MISSMEL!


we need realistic love stories between Asian-American men and women, because otherwise we risk just reversing the roles of men dominating women like most porn is.

you can’t make that judgment call about american AF/AM porn because dr.hamamoto’s project is the only one of its kind so far and you cannot extrapolate what your reifying notion of mainstream WM/AF porn to AF/AM. What did i say before about reading comprehension skills? by “realistic” do you mean stories about angst-ridden and frustrated AM who despite of looks or personality are automatically rejected everywhere by AF/WM? once again, although it’s people’s own choice who they sleep with you can’t at the same time manipulate and tell we AM what to think or how to act. AF might be aware of all the sociological issues and still date WM, that’s fine as far their choice goes, but at the same time the second-hand effects of emasculating AM are done. most smokers know that the consequences of smoking is but yet still smoke and the result is the same – note i did not make a value judgment of smoking is bad. until you AF stop thinking of what actions benefit AF only and try to empathize all the historical racism to impose bachelorhood on we AM (http://modelminority.com/article765.html) you’re not going to get any kind responses from us about the AF/WM situation. FYI, love is not colorblind if you go take some anthropology courses on gender roles from the material culture/scientific paradigm rather than the post-modern deconstruction feminazism BS.

I doubt the sexual oppression of Asian-American women will be ameilorated with an Asian-American male pairing, at least this is the case with Asian porn. Until the porno industry does cater more to women in general, I really believe the sexual oppression of women, and especially Asian-American women will continue.

notice how even pseudo-liberal sounding tripe as this subtextually supports the WM/AF by trumping down the AM/AF image. why aren’t you on those sites selling WM/AF porn and putting down those videos instead of dissing on a minor project with little production value like dr.hamamoto’s? once again, you cannot compare WM/AF porn with the non-existent AF/AM – “skin on skin” isn’t even released yet. turning the table on you, if you don’t like how AF is portrayed in porn why don’t you go out and make your own and show it for all how sexually liberating AF produced porn is for AF – and i have no doubt every type of color of men is included except for yellow. the hypocrisy to say one thing and then do another – and we AM second hand effects of emasculation…


I really do hate how Asian-American sexuality is even there and so politicized, I hate how we've reduced lovemaking into fucking to stick it to the man. I hate how we've come to demonize any Asian girl who has sex with anyone outside their race, it's become so damn stupid…Hamamoto is doing with this project.

this is why you won’t win any support from real AM like myself. to you, it’s all about the “me, me, me” AF sexually liberated. what about us AM who’s been emasculated and castrated to the point that we cannot have legitimate sexual expression or sexual freedom? that’s so typical of the hypocritical pseudo-liberal AF reifying and justifying the gender gap. why aren’t there more of AF like missmel ((http://modelminority.com/article765.html) who genuinely gets it and support us AM? LOVE IS NOT COLORBLIND! you choose who you choose and you live with the consequences and the reactions of people out there – stop telling us AM what to think and how to act! Try that for starters in a lesson on respect – no AM i’m aware of have ever told AF who to sleep with, we’ve only bitched and moaned about it to no avail. FYI, power and sex are the oldest stories instrumental to political machinations ever since the beginnings of humanity so live with it. again, why aren’t you going after the real problem with WM/AF porn rather than seek to denigrate we AM and keeping us down with emasculation? could it be you’re so brainwashed to only perpetuate the WM/AF for your own gain? notice how you went off on my tongue-in-cheek remark and personal attacks on me over this issue.

don't use it to pry on people's insecurities and anger. It's fucking sick to use sex as something hurtful…In addition, his rhetoric and his obvious hatred of anything interracial is something I really can't tolerate.

how many times do i have to reiterate the reading comprehension issue? why aren’t you going after mainstream WM/AF porn which does much more harm than this little project and don’t you understand that the majority of WM porn out there is about power over females in reaction to the new social dynamic of corporate women. again, all the AF does is criticize AM sexuality and refuse to go where the REAL problems are of mainstream WM/AF porn. THE HYPOCRISY of promoting views that only benefit AF! what’s good for the goose is also good for the gander and vice versa. all you’re concerned with is stopping the AM from ever getting some loving and yet refuse to criticize and go after the more insidious and vicious WM/AF porn’s effect on AF. where’s the support like missmel for we AM and our sexuality instead of the “me, me, me” attitude of your only concern of AF?

if you are going to keep personally insulting me and otherse and members of the organization…If you want a straight out insult since you seemed to want on, it's really sad that you're doing this behind the screen.

if you go back to the first posts, you were the one who first start personal attacks on me and i’m only returning the favor. in ALL of your posts here on yellowworld you’ve launched personal attacks against me. OH THE HYPOCRISY! i already have wrote justin lim, james hou, anita poon, and asked justina shih to extend my apologies for my BEHAVIOR at the forum, but not my views. i’ve already written justin lim and anita poon that if they want to debate this issue then setup a forum and invite dr.hamamoto and rick lee the asian-man and let’s have at it. don’t hide behind YOUR screen and attack me on how i need to seek help or advice from your organizations – what did i say before about the mind games and power trips you’re insinuating with? i have no qualms about going to an open debate forum if you set it up, but don’t trump my voice and opinions beneath the table in private emails.

and if this post gets deleted because some AF moderator got issues with an AM who’s real and not a pandering apologist, i got plenty of fake email accounts to keep coming back.

[rice cracker]

sir humplsot, you seem to feel that there is some "me me me" attitude re: Asian females, but I see little sympathy in your posts for our image. It's all "Asian male Asian male." It seems counter-productive to attack Asian females as sellouts and such, especially since you seem to need their validation and their support for AA adult films. Hypocrites for seeking mutual empowerment? I think not, but then again, your last post is so full of personal references I'm finding it hard to jump in and discuss.

[SunWuKong]

sir humpslot. one more insult toward AzNBuffGrL and you will be banned from this site and all your posts deleted. and no amount of fake email accounts will help you because i've had plenty of experience keeping people that are not welcome here off this site. if you want to continue your presence here, i suggest you learn to attack the issue instead of the person. this is the one and only warning that i will give you.

however, it's wrong for AF on this board and elsewhere to assume that simply because mainstream WM/AF porn is about domination and objectifying of AF that AM/AF porn will be the same. since this is the first american AF/AM porn ever made we'll have to see the footage and if they're actually enjoying it instead of a power issue as per WM/AF porn -- and i think the girl in the documentary did state she felt more comfortable and into doing the deed with the AM porn actor. WM/AF porn is about the inheritance of all the colonialist mentality whereas AM/AF porn is more natural in terms of providing a healthy outlet of fostering self-pride and love of each other rather than domination.

1) AM/AF porn in Asia do have a lot of themes of domination and objectification of Asian women. so what is so different about AM/AF porn in the US that all of a sudden the AM is gentle and not dominating? the way i see it, this little project has the sole purpose of pushing the envelope for some statement that Dr. Hamamoto want to express. nothing more and nothing less.

2) this is porn, and like you said, it's fantasy sex, not reality. why was the AM portrayed as gentle instead of sexually rough? i don't see how that digs the AM out of the gutter of wimpiness that the media has put him in. the only thing it does is express the statement that Hamamoto is trying to make - he's trying to convince Asian women that sex with Asian men are better.

well, thanks doctor, but i don't think a project that pretends to be real porn production is going to convince any Asian women of that, and there are already plenty of Asian women that are smart enough to realise it anyway.

[sir_humpslot]

I see little sympathy in your posts for our image. It's all "Asian male Asian male." It seems counter-productive to attack Asian females as sellouts and such, especially since you seem to need their validation and their support for AA adult films.


i've never had a chance to make any statements in support of the REAL AF sisters out there. i do feel strongly against the "lotus blossom" or "dragon lady" caricatures and part of the reason i think WM/AF porn is so unhealthy because of the dominance issue. however, so far aznbuffgirl brought up was to personally attack me through invalidation of my views or passive-aggressive patronization. i love AF like missmel who genuinely "gets it" instead of the apologist rationalization and those pseudo-empowerement forums.

FYI, we AM don't need AF for sexual image validation, just check out www.asian-man.com but i have problems with that website mainly because of the whole "getting back at whitey" mentality of the azn boyz on there. why should AF/AM be considered so alien and inappropriate when it's the most natural pairing out there? where did all these asians come from if it were not for AF/AM sexuality?


and no amount of fake email accounts will help you because i've had plenty of experience keeping people that are not welcome here off this site. if you want to continue your presence here, i suggest you learn to attack the issue instead of the person.

i'm not the person who started the personal attacks so check your own hypocrisy. i'd like to see you try to ban me because i got plenty of fake free yahoo email accounts and the UCD campus has plenty of computer IP addresses to go around. are you going to ban all of UCD IP domain and keep everybody else out? i'm very civil when i get the mutual respect from the other person, but don't expect me to be PC when people attack me personally. i apologize for the tone of me messages which might be too harsh, but that's not my style to be PC and pandering.

[Jeff Yu :)]

by “realistic” do you mean stories about angst-ridden and frustrated AM who despite of looks or personality are automatically rejected everywhere by AF/WM? once again, although it’s people’s own choice who they sleep with you can’t at the same time manipulate and tell we AM what to think or how to act. AF might be aware of all the sociological issues and still date WM, that’s fine as far their choice goes, but at the same time the second-hand effects of emasculating AM are done. most smokers know that the consequences of smoking is but yet still smoke and the result is the same – note i did not make a value judgment of smoking is bad. until you AF stop thinking of what actions benefit AF only and try to empathize all the historical racism to impose bachelorhood on we AM (http://modelminority.com/article765.html) you’re not going to get any kind responses from us about the AF/WM situation. FYI, love is not colorblind if you go take some anthropology courses on gender roles from the material culture/scientific paradigm rather than the post-modern deconstruction feminazism BS.


@ sir_humpslot: You're so absolutely right! Down with interracial dating! We gotta keep the race pure and all! :rolleyes: After all, those damn white guys are clubbing our women in the head, and dragging them back to their caves, and we all know that all Asian females would date automatically date white guys (who btw are all jerks) because they aren't possibly capable of making their own decisions on dating, right? Love isn't colorblind, but Asian females should only date Asian males, damnit! Of course, an Asian male dating a chick of any ethnicity is absolutely fine, because that only serves to masculinize the Asian male, right? :rolleyes:


this is why you won’t win any support from real AM like myself. to you, it’s all about the “me, me, me” AF sexually liberated. what about us AM who’s been emasculated and castrated to the point that we cannot have legitimate sexual expression or sexual freedom? that’s so typical of the hypocritical pseudo-liberal AF reifying and justifying the gender gap.

How about doing something instead of blaming all AF for "emasculating and castrating" you, eh? While I'm sure your comments are real empowering to AF everywhere, why don't you go and take some responsibility for masculinizing yourself, eh? Accuse any woman who won't date you with being a sellout, that'll make them all flock to you. Go score one with the boys by bringing home a prize Asian chick, and showing how masculine you are! Or better yet, do one better and get back at The Man, by going and stealing one of his women. That'll sure empower us AMs a lot more! :rolleyes:


LOVE IS NOT COLORBLIND! you choose who you choose and you live with the consequences and the reactions of people out there – stop telling us AM what to think and how to act! Try that for starters in a lesson on respect – no AM i’m aware of have ever told AF who to sleep with, we’ve only bitched and moaned about it to no avail. FYI, power and sex are the oldest stories instrumental to political machinations ever since the beginnings of humanity so live with it. again, why aren’t you going after the real problem with WM/AF porn rather than seek to denigrate we AM and keeping us down with emasculation? could it be you’re so brainwashed to only perpetuate the WM/AF for your own gain?

So love isn't colorblind, but AF should only date AM? You demand respect from AF, but I haven't seen you give respect to anyone so far, least of all AFs. All you've done was attack everyone you've talked to on this board. "We" haven't bitched and moaned about it, you have. Since AF porn is SO emasculating to you, here's a solution: Go to Kazaa, download some WM porn, and start stroking your way to emasculation of the white man!


how many times do i have to reiterate the reading comprehension issue? why aren’t you going after mainstream WM/AF porn which does much more harm than this little project and don’t you understand that the majority of WM porn out there is about power over females in reaction to the new social dynamic of corporate women. again, all the AF does is criticize AM sexuality and refuse to go where the REAL problems are of mainstream WM/AF porn. THE HYPOCRISY of promoting views that only benefit AF! what’s good for the goose is also good for the gander and vice versa. all you’re concerned with is stopping the AM from ever getting some loving and yet refuse to criticize and go after the more insidious and vicious WM/AF porn’s effect on AF. where’s the support like missmel for we AM and our sexuality instead of the “me, me, me” attitude of your only concern of AF?


Asian men aren't empowered unless they sleep with Asian women. For years, Asian women ave been deliberately withholding nookie in her goal of "stopping the AM from ever getting some loving". Alright then, ladies, let's get some empowerment sessions going! PM me, and we can start empowering the Asian male community! :biggrin:

Dude, it seems you have a lot more issues than emasculation. You need to treat your fellow Asians better. Blaming your shortage of nookie on AFs and calling them all sellouts isn't going to help your cause, only make you seem more like a jerk. If it's their own choice, like you keep saying, let them make their choices, instead of constantly telling them how emasculating their choices are and piling guilt on them. Make yourself and other AMs better candidates so that AMs come up as the AF's choice more often.

I for one, am not too pessimistic about my situation:
1)Engineering degree = money :-)
2)I like women of all races and ethnicities, as long as they're good-looking. :biggrin:
3)Asian DNA = exotic babies.

[sir_humpslot]

there are already plenty of Asian women that are smart enough to realise it anyway.

YES! I LOVE MISSMEL! http://modelminority.com/article765.html


1) AM/AF porn in Asia do have a lot of themes of domination and objectification of Asian women. so what is so different about AM/AF porn in the US that all of a sudden the AM is gentle and not dominating? the way i see it, this little project has the sole purpose of pushing the envelope for some statement that Dr. Hamamoto want to express. nothing more and nothing less.

yes, i do realize much of japanese porn is about rape fantasy or public groping. however, are you a subscriber to the claim by some AF that since asian men in asia are mysoginst that automatically makes we asian-american men also? the classic gripe of asian-americans is that we're not asian, so do you believe there's no difference between asian and asian-american?


2) this is porn, and like you said, it's fantasy sex, not reality. why was the AM portrayed as gentle instead of sexually rough? i don't see how that digs the AM out of the gutter of wimpiness that the media has put him in. the only thing it does is express the statement that Hamamoto is trying to make - he's trying to convince Asian women that sex with Asian men are better.

and why isn't AF/AM sex not better? where do you come from then if it were not for AF/AM sex? i don't care about the "wimpiness" factor as long we AM are portrayed as caring toward the beautiful AF girls out there instead of treating them like pieces of meat in most WM/AF porn. being a man doesn't exclude caring for and about women and being insensitive. how many women will really tell you they prefer a womanizing pig who watches sunday sports and don't care for the women's feelings?

[Tao]

and why isn't AF/AM sex not better? where do you come from then if it were not for AF/AM sex? i don't care about the "wimpiness" factor as long we AM are portrayed as caring toward the beautiful AF girls out there instead of treating them like pieces of meat in most WM/AF porn. being a man doesn't exclude caring for and about women and being insensitive. how many women will really tell you they prefer a womanizing pig who watches sunday sports and don't care for the women's feelings?
uhhh, dude, it's porn...hardly the most pc field there is. hell they have shit like white chicks with black dicks or some shit like that. most porn isn't really "normal" if you get what i'm saying, it's pretty much fetishes and the such. i really don't understand why you're so worked up over porn...am i missing something here?

note: i have not read anything that was posted besides the one i just responded to.

[SunWuKong]

i'm not the person who started the personal attacks so check your own hypocrisy. i'd like to see you try to ban me because i got plenty of fake free yahoo email accounts and the UCD campus has plenty of computer IP addresses to go around. are you going to ban all of UCD IP domain and keep everybody else out? i'm very civil when i get the mutual respect from the other person, but don't expect me to be PC when people attack me personally. i apologize for the tone of me messages which might be too harsh, but that's not my style to be PC and pandering.

i don't care who started it i want you to stop.

don't even try to dare me to ban you. so far you haven't actually accessed YW on a UCD computer yet, only from your ISP. maybe you can access UCD computer, it doesn't matter. it takes exactly 3 clicks for me to ban a user, how long does it take to sign up for a yahoo email account? it wouldn't exactly be the first time someone keeps trying to sign up for an account after they've been banned. if you want so desperately to actually have an account here, all you have to do is do what the admins and mods tell you to and you won't have to keep signing up only to have us ban you again. and no, YW does not have absolute freedom of speech. read. (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=2276)

EDIT: by the way, when i say i don't want any personal attacks (or the use of sarcasm to illicit one, Jeff Yu), i mean that for everybody.

yes, i do realize much of japanese porn is about rape fantasy or public groping. however, are you a subscriber to the claim by some AF that since asian men in asia are mysoginst that automatically makes we asian-american men also? the classic gripe of asian-americans is that we're not asian, so do you believe there's no difference between asian and asian-american?

no i am not a subscriber of that and that issue is actually irrelevant as i'm sure nearly all Asian women can distinguish the difference between porn and reality, such that they can watch Japanese porn and still realise that Asian men are not all perverts and they can watch Hamamoto's little project and realise that Asian men can still be sexual predators.

my point is that it is moot to say that WM/AF porn is about domination while AM/AF porn is not, because there are plenty of examples from Asia to show the contrary.

and why isn't AF/AM sex not better? where do you come from then if it were not for AF/AM sex? i don't care about the "wimpiness" factor as long we AM are portrayed as caring toward the beautiful AF girls out there instead of treating them like pieces of meat in most WM/AF porn. being a man doesn't exclude caring for and about women and being insensitive. how many women will really tell you they prefer a womanizing pig who watches sunday sports and don't care for the women's feelings?

oh i agree, and there are plenty of ways to do that, such as:
Personally for me, I feel like what we need is more than porn, we need realistic love stories between Asian-American men and women, because otherwise we risk just reversing the roles of men dominating women like most porn is. There is very little porn out there that women can really enjoy, even though many women do watch porn, but quite frankly there's not much out there that doesn't involve some man just drilling and pounding the shit out another woman. This is especially true for Asian-American women, because we don't like seeing White men rough with us anymore than you do, maybe even moreso than you. But in the pure penetration and pumping of pornography, I doubt the sexual oppression of Asian-American women will be ameilorated with an Asian-American male pairing, at least this is the case with Asian porn. Until the porno industry does cater more to women in general, I really believe the sexual oppression of women, and especially Asian-American women will continue. Unfortunately, the way the industry and all industry works is simply supply and demand. Sadly though, people out there like seeing Asian-American women and women in general to be in positions where they are subjugated to men.

we are talking about the portrayal of Asian/Asian couples, and using a medium like porn is just inherently flawed, because the industry itself a male-oriented fantasy and not at all based on reality.

[sir_humpslot]

they aren't possibly capable of making their own decisions on dating, right? Love isn't colorblind, but Asian females should only date Asian males, damnit! Of course, an Asian male dating a chick of any ethnicity is absolutely fine, because that only serves to masculinize the Asian male, right?

so you do understand irony after all. what's with the seletive paraphrasing and putting words in my mouth then? have i ever said anything about real life WM/AF pairings at all? i seem to remember commenting on how WM/AF PORN is misogynst and it's still the AF's or AM's own choice. i'd love it if all AF and AM can date whoever they want without regard to all these social-political BS associated with it but the reality of the matter that it isn't and so there's the elephant in the middle of the room here on obviously something's wrong given the 2000 census and all of the historical AM bachelorhood symptome in america.



How about doing something instead of blaming all AF for "emasculating and castrating" you, eh? While I'm sure your comments are real empowering to AF everywhere, why don't you go and take some responsibility for masculinizing yourself, eh? Accuse any woman who won't date you with being a sellout, that'll make them all flock to you. Go score one with the boys by bringing home a prize Asian chick, and showing how masculine you are! Or better yet, do one better and get back at The Man, by going and stealing one of his women. That'll sure empower us AMs a lot more!

i'm really tired of this putting words in my mouth to goad me. yeah, gang up on the newbie here, really sophisticated. do you automatically assume that because i speak out on these issues that i'm not getting any in my personal life? FYI, i have been with beautiful AF and WF girls before, but because of personal problems they didn't work out. don't assume that because some AM is passionate and cares about his community that he's automatically a sexless frustrated geek.


So love isn't colorblind, but AF should only date AM? You demand respect from AF, but I haven't seen you give respect to anyone so far, least of all AFs.

have i said anywhere that AF should only date AM? all i've stated over and over again is that AF have their choice but at the same time they have to realize their choices have consequences because nobody lives in a vacuum. FYI, respect is earned, i give it out when i received it or somebody genuinely earns it from me. i do have respect for AF like missmel as i've posted several times already, but i don't have respect for those who use the typical asian passive-aggressive games to slander and patronize me.

"We" haven't bitched and moaned about it, you have. Since AF porn is SO emasculating to you, here's a solution: Go to Kazaa, download some WM porn, and start stroking your way to emasculation of the white man!

my personal tastes in porn is not the issue here, but "we" might not include you personally but there are enough AM on www.asian-man.com or www.modelminority.com who talk about it. i originally had no intentions to get into this discussion, but somebody brings it up against me so now i'm forced to defend myself. i'm more interested in asian-american media and movies than this rehashed subject.


You need to treat your fellow Asians better. Blaming your shortage of nookie on AFs and calling them all sellouts isn't going to help your cause, only make you seem more like a jerk. If it's their own choice, like you keep saying, let them make their choices, instead of constantly telling them how emasculating their choices are and piling guilt on them.


see, there you go again into the stereotypes and caricatures and putting words in my mouth. have i ever said i'm not getting any nookie or have i ever called AF sellouts? FYI, given you never met me and already is judging me maybe you should practice what you preach?

i treat my fellow asians, asian-americans like any other human beings; i reciprocate respect when i receive it or when the person geniunely deserves it. i don't care for individual asian or asian-americans but the overall sense of community and self-pride. if i'm being cut down, i'm too human and not above it and will reciprocate. i've never called anybody a sellout, only addressed the issue when somebody attempts to put words in my mouth and not let me explain myself instead of hazing me on this board.


3)Asian DNA = exotic babies.

and "exotic" is the number one word for the whole colonialistic mentality. you'd know if you ever taken real asian-american study or anthropology (material paradigm) courses.


most porn isn't really "normal" if you get what i'm saying, it's pretty much fetishes and the such. i really don't understand why you're so worked up over porn...am i missing something here?


no, i had no intention to get into this inane argument, but i was just reading this thread and responded to it because of the documentary. then of course somebody chimes in with personal insults and the rest is this pointless meandering waste of time. however, i'm too egotistical to set things aside and let it go so i'm stuck now defending my position from those people who slander and are putting words in my mouth. i'm not obsessed about porn but i have a right to defend myself and my own opinions.

don't even try to dare me to ban you. so far you haven't actually accessed YW on a UCD computer yet, only from your ISP. maybe you can access UCD computer, it doesn't matter. it takes exactly 3 clicks for me to ban a user, how long does it take to sign up for a yahoo email account? it wouldn't exactly be the first time someone keeps trying to sign up for an account after they've been banned. if you want so desperately to actually have an account here, all you have to do is do what the admins and mods tell you to and you won't have to keep signing up only to have us ban you again. and no, YW does not have absolute freedom of speech.

i understand the free-speech or lack of issue on internet forums, this is your house and it's your rules. however, when somebody gets insulted or unfairly slandered in your establishment and wants to defend himself do you automatically throw that guy out to protect your previous patrons? there are many cases where establishments have been sued for discrimination, y'know. i'm getting all worked up over nothing here at home, but i can have access to plenty of UCD campus computers. and i don't care how long it takes to subscribe because i'm just a stubborn pigheaded fool who gets passionate about inane issues and have to have the final word. i've been civil in other posts where i wasn't slandered or patronized (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=16035) but i won't backdown from a fight because i'm not a complacement asian geek caricature. i will abide by your rules if you'll enforce it unilaterally and apply it to everyone instead of just hazing me.

by the way, when i say i don't want any personal attacks (or the use of sarcasm to illicit one, Jeff Yu), i mean that for everybody.


i'm sure nearly all Asian women can distinguish the difference between porn and reality, such that they can watch Japanese porn and still realise that Asian men are not all perverts and they can watch Hamamoto's little project and realise that Asian men can still be sexual predators.

i have no doubt that most people are intelligent enough to separate reality from fantasy, but at the same time you can't convince me that media images have no impact or influence people's perceptions. why do we spend billions of dollars in advertising if we think media images don't have impact or influence over people's decision making? nearly all advertisments apeal to some fantasy to sell, and it's been well documented. at this, i'm sure some people will put words in my mouth that i think AF are incapable of making their own decisions. again, i don't care what AF or AM do with their personal lives, but i do care the impact that these media images have because media is not generated inside a vacuum and have all sorts of socio-political connotations.


my point is that it is moot to say that WM/AF porn is about domination while AM/AF porn is not, because there are plenty of examples from Asia to show the contrary.

plenty of examples from asia, but where are the plenty of examples from asian-america? isn't this like making judgment calls before knowing the situation completely, ie. making character judgments before knowing people like other people have done to me on this board?


we are talking about the portrayal of Asian/Asian couples, and using a medium like porn is just inherently flawed, because the industry itself a male-oriented fantasy and not at all based on reality.

this comment i agree with, but what other ways to get blatant and "in your face" about it other than dr.hamamoto's project? all the media APA have generated have been ineffectual and maybe this will get people to start seriously discuss the issues rather than slandering and patronizing like i've been getting in this thread.

also, aren't movies fantasy generated by males for the most part anyhow? there are very few women producers, directors, and even fewer REAL roles for actresses that aren't male generated fantasies -- older actresses find it extremely difficult to get decent parts. from romantic-comedies to drama, while some element of truth can be found, for the most part are still fantasies without basis in reality. the only difference between tame media like mainstream movies and porn is whether it offends the sensbilities of people watching it.

[SunWuKong]

plenty of examples from asia, but where are the plenty of examples from asian-america?

i'm not sure you understand what i'm saying.

1) porn in Asia has a theme of males dominating females.
2) porn in the US, yes, regardless of the races of the women, has a theme of males dominating females.
3) yet porn where an Asian American man is involved, suddenly it's gentle? say what?

there is a discrepancy here, and i feel that Hamamoto's way of using porn to express his statement just makes his little project kind of half-assed in and of itself.

this comment i agree with, but what other ways to get blatant and "in your face" about it other than dr.hamamoto's project? all the media APA have generated have been ineffectual and maybe this will get people to start seriously discuss the issues rather than slandering and patronizing like i've been getting in this thread.

this project isn't really that "in your face". nobody in the mainstream is going to see it. media that APAs generate don't get much attention because we are only about 4% of the population. even with the success of black people in entertainment, it's the movies with the stereotypes that get media attention. it's a sad day when something like Bringing Down The House is a box-office hit while something like Brown Sugar is a practical unknown amongst white people, but that's the reality of the situation.

it's like what you said in another thread - we need to stop looking to mainstream media and Hollywood for validation. we also need to stop looking to white people for validation.

[sir_humpslot]

i'm not sure you understand what i'm saying.

1) porn in Asia has a theme of males dominating females.
2) porn in the US, yes, regardless of the races of the women, has a theme of males dominating females.
3) yet porn where an Asian American man is involved, suddenly it's gentle? say what?

there is a discrepancy here, and i feel that Hamamoto's way of using porn to express his statement just makes his little project kind of half-assed in and of itself.


i agree that porn is not the best means to go about this, but other media hasn't proven to work. i disagree with the above points as there are "softcore" porn and it seems more prevelant in asia than in america. the whole matter of japanese porn vs american is discuss ad nauseum on www.asian-man.com forums if you want to get into detail about. perhaps i didn't make myself clear, the "gentle and caring" aspect of hamamoto's project wasn't intentional. he just set up the scene and the actors themselves went at it, hamamoto only made that observation afterwards and the girl replied that she felt more comfortable with the asian porn actor. it's not expounded in the documentary very well, but if you want to ask hamamoto himself what he means by it then give him an email and he'll respond to you. dyhamamoto@ucdavis.edu


this project isn't really that "in your face". nobody in the mainstream is going to see it. media that APAs generate don't get much attention because we are only about 4% of the population.

i already posted a reply to this from rick lee from the other thread on this and what their intention was in making it. mainstream appeal isn't the point, they wanted to generated and foster pride from within the community and have healthy discussions and debate from asian-americans themselves instead of complaceny and brushing things under the rug as asian-americans tend to always do. i think it's wrong in some ways for asian-american filmmakers to be worried about making movies for the mainstream instead of for the passion and art of getting their message across. indie projects that are geared for mainstream appeal invariably fail because they're just tripe made without passion or love of art. which is why, indie filmmakers should make films because of the importance of the subject matter to them.


even with the success of black people in entertainment, it's the movies with the stereotypes that get media attention.

unforunately, people take the easy way out of everything including being uncritical of movies they watch. call me a snob, but the majority of people just doesn't care and somebody does they get cut down like in this thread.

"The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry."

we need to stop looking to mainstream media and Hollywood for validation. we also need to stop looking to white people for validation.

amen.

i love the theme song from "spirited away" particularly because of this passge:

No need to search outside, nor sail across the sea
Cause here shining inside me, it's right here inside me

I've found a brightness, it's always with me

[SunWuKong]

i agree that porn is not the best means to go about this, but other media hasn't proven to work.

and i think porn will be even less effective.

i disagree with the above points as there are "softcore" porn and it seems more prevelant in asia than in america. the whole matter of japanese porn vs american is discuss ad nauseum on www.asian-man.com forums if you want to get into detail about.

oh i've watched plenty of porn, both American and Japanese. even the softcore Japanese porn is more dominating than softcore American porn.

perhaps i didn't make myself clear, the "gentle and caring" aspect of hamamoto's project wasn't intentional. he just set up the scene and the actors themselves went at it, hamamoto only made that observation afterwards and the girl replied that she felt more comfortable with the asian porn actor.

then it's not porn as it is made in the porn industry is it? there's nobody telling the actor to fuck the girl in the ass, cum in her mouth, etc etc. it's just filming two people having sex. i'll bet if he got a white dude and and Asian girl, tell them he's doing a project, and tell them to just have sex naturally, you're not going to see even half the domination or objectification that you'd see in WM/AF porn.

it's a big discrepancy then. how can you compare a simple filming of two people having sex with porn productions that are directed and that purposely target the male audience? it's like apples and oranges. you can make all the observations about the two different scenarios you want, but you've got a major disconnect if you're trying to make some racial implications out of it.

[sir_humpslot]

and i think porn will be even less effective.

okay, what do you have in mind for more effective media? so far nothing i've seen appeals to me personally in terms of AF/AM relationship and i don't think i'm the only one.


oh i've watched plenty of porn, both American and Japanese. even the softcore Japanese porn is more dominating than softcore American porn.

that's a difference of opinion, let's just leave it at that porn appeals to different personal tastes. but from what i've seen other than the japanese fetishist porn, japanese or other asian softcore is more about sex rather than power issues.


then it's not porn as it is made in the porn industry is it?

duh, how can a professor of ethnic studies be a porn industry producer?


it's just filming two people having sex. i'll bet if he got a white dude and and Asian girl, tell them he's doing a project, and tell them to just have sex naturally, you're not going to see even half the domination or objectification that you'd see in WM/AF porn.

i'm not sure how much behind the scenes footage you've seen of porn, but from what i gather there isn't much direction at all even in professional porn where they just tell people to go at it -- i've never heard of porn actors having theatrical training and requiring a professional director. and obviously, the views of that asian girl in hamamoto's project are based on her personal experiences and we can debate all these statistical outliers and suppositions all night, but you can't deny the general trend of WM/AF porn. i'm not an expert on every WM/AF porn made, but anytime trying to find AF in porn searches will invariably lead to WM/AF and the whole domination/dehumanization issue in movie files with all the caricatures of "me love you long time" or "oriental slut/cunt." maybe your difference in porn viewership is different and that's good for you, but you can't speak for my experience with AF in american porn that i've seen is true as observed by dr.hamamoto. again, why don't you write him personally and get his opinion instead of the yellowworld gang beating up on the newbie? in all this ridiculous typing, my fingers are like raw all thanks to the hazing in here.


it's a big discrepancy then. how can you compare a simple filming of two people having sex with porn productions that are directed and that purposely target the male audience? it's like apples and oranges.

porn is porn, there is a genre called "voyeurism" and that's not directed and some of the same domination/dehumanzing aspects crop up there too. most porn productions are just some guy with a camera filmming "the talents" without much direction. ask rick lee the www.asian-man.com man himself. what's the difference between the two in terms of the act of sex of having paid "performers" for hamamoto or for any other porn? the AM was a first timer, but the female was a professional and they're all paid performers with the same equipment and setup as regular porn from what's shown in the documentary. the setups are the same, some girl shows up at a hotel and gets paid for sex acts. the only differences i've picked out from the documentary has already been mentioned. again, this is pointless because obviously my point is not getting across and we're just meandering around the elephant in the room here.


MY FINGER IS RAW FROM TYPING!

[ellsworth81]

after going thru the posts, i still have to ask, what's the conclusion from all of this?

[Tao]

after going thru the posts, i still have to ask, what's the conclusion from all of this?
finding good AM porn is hard to do since all the sellout AF sluts worship the white/black man's cock due to brain washing by US mass media.

the end

[sir_humpslot]

after going thru the posts, i still have to ask, what's the conclusion from all of this?

in the words of dr.hamamoto, "asians need sexual healing" and he's the love doctor. :biggrin:


finding good AM porn is hard to do since all the sellout AF sluts worship the white/black man's cock due to brain washing by US mass media.

you can't make that value judgment because AF porn actresses are the highest paid workers in the industry -- a point brought up in the documentar. also, there's simply no professional AM porn actors. rick lee of www.asian-man.com is an amateur and doesn't show his face, other than him there isn't anybody else out there who's willing to step up to the plate.

[ellsworth81]

in the words of dr.hamamoto, "asians need sexual healing" and he's the love doctor. :biggrin:


i think asians have plenty of sex. one notable example is the billion chinese people, and i think now the billion of indian people. so just wondering if you meant asian-ams..?


you can't make that value judgment because AF porn actresses are the highest paid workers in the industry -- a point brought up in the documentar. also, there's simply no professional AM porn actors. rick lee of www.asian-man.com is an amateur and doesn't show his face, other than him there isn't anybody else out there who's willing to step up to the plate.

AF's are the highest paid? that's a stat I'd have to see to believe...

and as for professional AM porn ppl, there are plenty abroad. notably in japan. again, just wondering if you meant asian-ams ...

[sir_humpslot]

just wondering if you meant asian-ams


yes, "asian-americans need sexual healing" and dr.hamamoto is the love doctor. that's acutally his main point about making asian-american porn, because asians in asia are "masters of the pillow" with 3+ billion people and yet in america we're not in control of our sexual identity.


AF's are the highest paid? that's a stat I'd have to see to believe

rick lee of www.asian-man.com has all the stats you want. he's not a professional, but call him a "para-porn actor" because he's very aware of the ins and outs of the industry.

and pun was intended in that last sentence. :D

[Tao]

yes, "asian-americans need sexual healing" and dr.hamamoto is the love doctor. that's acutally his main point about making asian-american porn, because asians in asia are "masters of the pillow" with 3+ billion people and yet in america we're not in control of our sexual identity.




rick lee of www.asian-man.com (http://www.asian-man.com) has all the stats you want. he's not a professional, but call him a "para-porn actor" because he's very aware of the ins and outs of the industry.

and pun was intended in that last sentence. :D
question: how would one find the documentary by the professor? I'm interested in what he has to say, i looked at his website, but there's no way of getting a copy of the documentary

[sir_humpslot]

http://www.mastersofthepillow.com/

i don't think it'll be released anytime soon even on DVD. if you're part of a student organization or some generic entity interested in a screening then maybe you can get in touch with james hou the director. i also know how to get in touch with one of the producers, alyx park, if you want that.

"skin on skin" or "yellowcaust" is dr.hamamoto's "porn" that hasn't even been released yet. i doubt he's even interested in releasing it; his primary agenda was to get the issue out there and bring awareness to the fact that invariablly most AF or AM sexual fantasies will be about blond hair and blue eyes.

[yw_news]

Oct. 10, 2003 | A lot of guys might jump at the opportunity to take a free trip to Los Angeles, have sex with a beautiful Asian woman and be...

http://yellowworld.org/arts_culture_media/47.html

[RangerX]

A quote from that article.

"Hamamoto wants to start a discussion about Asian-American sexuality, which he says has been damaged by years of colonialism and racism that has turned Asian women into a sexual fetish and Asian men into eunuchs."

Very interesting.

Asian-American sexuality has been damaged by colonialism and racism.

Colonial-ism.

Race-ism.

Practiced by What People ?

What People are practicing Colonial-ism and Race-ism that have damaged the Asian-American sexuality ?

-RangerX
RWSWJ

I could be incorrect, bu my questions may have been answered by the author of the article (and the people who quoted).

“The whole sexuality part of our lives is warped and deformed from larger white racism,”

then,

Who controls what is sexy in film, and basically what is sexy, is defined by white guys,” says Joyce Guan, who works at the Asian-American Telecommunications Association

and

“[White men] can have every woman of every race. For Asian men, they’re just not supposed to be men,” says Kim, who was also an associate producer of the documentary “Slaying the Dragon: Asian Women in U.S. Film and Television.” “If you conquer Vietnam, Korea or Japan, then it all fits in the fantasy that you get the women and vanquish the men.”

Very interesting noneoftheless.

I still would appreciate it if other participants on this discussion forum would answer my questions if they may (what is your opinion and so forth).

Thank you for your time.

-RangerX
RWSWJ

[bluemonq]

im kinda afraid that this thread will degenerate into another discussion about "omfg, they're taking all our women" vs. "stfu, what the hell are you talking about". tho i do think you answered you own question, as far as what hamamoto thinks.

As Marvin Gaye said, we need ‘sexual healing,’ and I’m the doctor,” Hamamoto says.

wth?

...a huge crossover audience, similar to how suburbia has embraced the urban hip-hop music scene.
again, wth?

“Skin to Skin” is standard porn fare, at least from the snippets in a preview tape provided by Hamamoto. There’s a knock on the door, Chun greets Lei and after some flirting on the couch while playing video games they proceed to do what is done in most porn videos.
video games? :rolleyes:
maybe they should have gone with the home-shot, amateurish, rough-cut 10 min video format :rolleyes:
btw, what's with the sudden blast from yw_news?

[fossilfuel]

btw, what's with the sudden blast from yw_news?

^ climax

[DragonKnight]

Right now I'm currently studying Asian American's in the media and the use of the media in the past that turns Asian men into eunuchs and Asian women into love slaves (pretty much what the article says). Mentions of "yellowface" and "colonialism" are in it as well. But start piecing together how europeon nations first started colonizing Asian countries and the best way to oppress a society is to degrade them into something sub-human. Sexuality is counted among that social piece of cultural pride.

I'm guessing this AA on AA p0rn is another way of reclaiming one's social-identity and pride of being Asian in terms of sexuality. I guess a good example was talking to this one puerto rican guy who was visiting from NY. As all typical guy discussions go it went on to the subject of sex. He says cause I'm Filipino its all good talking about sex cause of the intermixing of Spanish blood (which is true in my case after looking into the ancestry of both my mom and dad's side of the family...not that I use it as a source of pride...'cause I'm actually more into my Filipino and Chinese roots).

But the interesting note is his take on Asian men in general. He was led to believe that Asian men are not as sexually charged, not as virile, and quite lacking in the 'package' department in general. I wasn't too happy with that comment and told him he shouldn't generalize like that, but he still held steadfast to that belief cause this is what was socially integrated into him via the media (a lot of yellowface, which is still used today with the most visible examples being the Dr. Wen Ho Lee situation and more recently, William Hung), historically (the colonization and attempted colonization of Vietnam, Philippines, China, Japan, Korea, etc), and the need for him to put down another minority to prove his own sexual superiority.

So while the individual Asian male may not feel that inferiority in his sexuality or the Asian female in the exotification of her sexuality, society in general (particularly American society) may.

BTW, to prove how even subtle social influences and historical references can have an effect on you, I'll use an example that one of the instructors in my Ethnic Studies class uses...and I'm going to paraphrase it for you since I don't remember it word for word:

"What is the first image that comes up in your mind when you hear the word 'slave'?"

'Nuff said.

[kimpossible]

im kinda afraid that this thread will degenerate into another discussion about "omfg, they're taking all our women" vs. "stfu, what the hell are you talking about". tho i do think you answered you own question, as far as what hamamoto thinks.



's okay. this is an older story and i think i can locate the previous thread and merge.

Hardly a current event anymore. Merged with previous thread and moved to sex.

[Irezumi Kiss]

Who controls what is sexy in film, and basically what is sexy, is defined by white guys,” says Joyce Guan, who works at the Asian-American Telecommunications Association
This I agree with, even while at the same time I believe one's sexual identity control responsibility begins with the individual first...which leads me to ask a question, if anyone cares to discuss...

If this "porn" isn't sold or distributed, then doesn't it mitigate the purpose of what it's supposed to stand for in the first place? Not circulating it isn't helping spread the gospel, right?

[A.R.A.M.]

Right now I'm currently studying Asian American's in the media and the use of the media in the past that turns Asian men into eunuchs and Asian women into love slaves (pretty much what the article says). Mentions of "yellowface" and "colonialism" are in it as well. But start piecing together how europeon nations first started colonizing Asian countries and the best way to oppress a society is to degrade them into something sub-human. Sexuality is counted among that social piece of cultural pride.

When I read some post-colonial theory, I often wonder how much of what happened under colonialism was deliberate policy to oppress the colonized, and how much was just the unintended consequences of colonialism. So here, while I have no doubt that colonial regimes regarded the colonized as something subhuman, I have to wonder if a bunch of European officials and aristocrats really gathered around and deliberately hammered out a policy of warping Asians' sexuality in order to better oppress them.

A weird thing I came across in my studies that may be relevant to this thread: Filipino men back in the days of U.S. colonialism were not seen as emasculated eunuchs. Rather, white men saw them as much more sexually powerful than white men and hence threat to the perceived moral purity of white women. Of course, this was just another way to warp the sexuality of a colonized people, but it shows that not all stereotypes of Asian men have always been of the desexualized kind.

[mr. x]

A weird thing I came across in my studies that may be relevant to this thread: Filipino men back in the days of U.S. colonialism were not seen as emasculated eunuchs. Rather, white men saw them as much more sexually powerful than white men and hence threat to the perceived moral purity of white women. Of course, this was just another way to warp the sexuality of a colonized people, but it shows that not all stereotypes of Asian men have always been of the desexualized kind.
wasnt that what hte whole zoot suit thing was about?

[DragonKnight]

When I read some post-colonial theory, I often wonder how much of what happened under colonialism was deliberate policy to oppress the colonized, and how much was just the unintended consequences of colonialism. So here, while I have no doubt that colonial regimes regarded the colonized as something subhuman, I have to wonder if a bunch of European officials and aristocrats really gathered around and deliberately hammered out a policy of warping Asians' sexuality in order to better oppress them.
Asian sexuality was probably not on their top list of agendas. But as we've seen on these boards, the manly thing to do in a locker room is to compare dick sizes and see who has the bigger dick. Then the fugker with the biggest dick uses his manhood as a means of proving he's the better man above all others.

Not to say a white man's dick is bigger than all others, but you gotta admit, you wanna oppress someone you use everything in your power to oppress that person (for men in general, you can really piss off a guy by questioning his manhood). For Asian men, why not oppress their sexuality by associating them with feminine and eunich-type characteristics.

Yeah, a whole bunch of aristocratic types and politicians probably didn't come up with a detailed plan to screw with Asian sexuality. But you start with the basic policy of oppressing a certain group of people, the public doing the oppressing will eventually come up with more ideas of oppression and the media following the social trends will help reinforce that oppression.

It's a very vicious cycle indeed.


A weird thing I came across in my studies that may be relevant to this thread: Filipino men back in the days of U.S. colonialism were not seen as emasculated eunuchs. Rather, white men saw them as much more sexually powerful than white men and hence threat to the perceived moral purity of white women. Of course, this was just another way to warp the sexuality of a colonized people, but it shows that not all stereotypes of Asian men have always been of the desexualized kind. Hehe, I just went through a lecture on this...so here's my notes on that lecture...

Filipino laborers in the early 1900s came to the US for opportunity. They were given the most degrading tasks like cleaning out sewers, hard labor, etc. Socially they were thought of as barbaric, primitive, subhumans due to the colonization policies of Spain and later on, the United States. That and the Filipino Village at the 1904 World's Fair didn't exactly improve public opinion of Filipinos. For Filipino men in particular, their sexuality was questioned and often belittled by their white counterparts.

So, what these laborers did was after their hard day's work, they would clean up and put on these suits (pretty much the same as zoot suits) and head out to the dance hall. Out there, they would strut their stuff and eventually create their own street culture that was similar to the 'zoot suit' culture of Hispanics. Out on the dance hall they would reclaim their masculinity with sexually charged dance moves that eventually attracted a lot of white women. Descriptions of 'sex on the dance floor' best summed up how these Filipino men were when it came to dancing with their white girlfriends.

As you can tell, white men saw this as a threat to their social order and fights in these dance halls were not at all uncommon.

So yes, there was once again an effort to desexualize another Asian race. But in this case, these Filipino men took it upon themselves to define themselves on their own terms, rather than some society that tried to paint them as primitive, desexualized barbarians.

[Filiprish]

I think the abundant Latin porn is the best alternative to the non-existant Yellow porn.

[Irezumi Kiss]

I think the abundant Latin porn is the best alternative to the non-existant Yellow porn.
Or you could just make your own... :wink:

[mr. x]

I think the abundant Latin porn is the best alternative to the non-existant Yellow porn.
dude what about us east asians who aint as dark as you guys? :rolleyes:

[Filiprish]

dude what about us east asians who aint as dark as you guys? :rolleyes:
YOU guys? Not sure what you mean by that. FYI, there are loads of Latinos that are, in fact, lighter, or even more so, than East Asians. Ignorant? :rolleyes:

[Napoleon Chynamite]

YOU guys? Not sure what you mean by that. FYI, there are loads of Latinos that are, in fact, lighter, or even more so, than East Asians. Ignorant? :rolleyes:

Erm...when he said 'you guys' I think he was talking about SE Asians since you're like Filipino (and white). Dun think there was any malice involved. Most SE Asians are darker than East Asians, and of course there are exceptions, and I'd venture to say that most Hispanics or Latinos are also darker than East Asians (from what I've seen). Again, of course...there are exceptions *shrug* I'm paler than most white people but I still consider my people to be darker cause we're better like that. I kid.

[Filiprish]

Erm...when he said 'you guys' I think he was talking about SE Asians since you're like Filipino (and white). Dun think there was any malice involved. Most SE Asians are darker than East Asians, and of course there are exceptions, and I'd venture to say that most Hispanics or Latinos are also darker than East Asians (from what I've seen). Again, of course...there are exceptions *shrug* I'm paler than most white people but I still consider my people to be darker cause we're better like that. I kid.
Okay, I get the "you guys" comment. As for pale/light-skinned Latinos, he's still ignorant. Let's not forget that most Latinos in the world are mestizo, like myself, and that US Latinos are more inclined to have dark-skin (dark-skinned Latino=poor Mexican=agricultural worker). If you go to Argentina or Chile you'll notice that dark-skinned Latinos are extremely scarce. And, Brazil has a huge mestizo population. Both Argentina and Chile have advanced media industries. And, yes, porn comes out of it! You can easily go on the net and order Latino porn videos, with or w/o dark people, from these countries. You just have to dig. :wink:

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Okay, I get the "you guys" comment. As for pale/light-skinned Latinos, he's still ignorant. Let's not forget that most Latinos in the world are mestizo, like myself, and that US Latinos are more inclined to have dark-skin (dark-skinned Latino=poor Mexican=agricultural worker). If you go to Argentina or Chile you'll notice that dark-skinned Latinos are extremely scarce. And, Brazil has a huge mestizo population. Both Argentina and Chile have advanced media industries. And, yes, porn comes out of it! You can easily go on the net and order Latino porn videos, with or w/o dark people, from these countries. You just have to dig. :wink:

I see. It's weird I have a friend who is half Mexican half Filipino and he's completely tan and I guess he has more Mexican features but his dad looks completely white (his dad's the Mexican one). Ultimately though from what I've seen though it seems like dark-skinned Latinos are extremely underrepresented in their own media (much like Thai films and the overrepresentation of light-skinned or Chinese-looking people, although I'm not sure how it's like nowadays). Although I'm not quite sure...This only goes for the regular TV shows and talk shows I've seen though. I have yet to do any heavy sifting into Latino porn, haha, although I've always had a thing for Latina women (the kind that look more like what we in the US would consider the Hispanic look rather than those that look practically white) since high school.

[Shuriken]

The virtual absence of Asian men in American pornography seems to be an extension of Hollywood's refusal to portray heterosexual Asian men as romantic leads in general. This has got to have some impact on the American psyche, Asian and non-Asian.

But porn perpetuates other stereotypes as well. Years ago, while researching a project about Asian Americans in porn (honestly!), I checked out this mainstream (to the degree that you consider porn "mainstream") American adult video called something like The Erotic Adventures of Chi-Chi Chan, which implied (lawyers would have jumped all over them if they had said it blatantly) that the title character was the gra