Pan Asian Community?

[VV o n g B a]

congrats on the article. i'm sure u stirred up the pond a bit.

but i'm wondering... if u don't believe there is a pan-asian community at all, how do u explain the existence of this place, this .... for lack of a better word, community yellowworld? the easiest way is to say that they're all activists, but it's obviously not. or at least not of the kind that u would stay away from. the other way is that there's just lots of interesting ppl here. but that ignores the fact that most of these ppl came to chat/debate w/ other asians.

i know u've prolly explained this a bunch of times already, but i'm feeling too lazy to look the posts up...

[BeTheReds]

congrats on the article. i'm sure u stirred up the pond a bit.

but i'm wondering... if u don't believe there is a pan-asian community at all, how do u explain the existence of this place, this .... for lack of a better word, community yellowworld? the easiest way is to say that they're all activists, but it's obviously not. or at least not of the kind that u would stay away from. the other way is that there's just lots of interesting ppl here. but that ignores the fact that most of these ppl came to chat/debate w/ other asians.

i know u've prolly explained this a bunch of times already, but i'm feeling too lazy to look the posts up...


Yes, I would have to admit that YW is an online Asian American community. However, I am not debating whether or not small unrelated Asian American communities exist.

I am debating that some believe that there is one all encompassing Asian American community with common history goals needs and aspirations. In short, that all (or most) of the people who can be identified as Asian-American see his fellow Asian-Americans as brothers, or "My people" etc...

African Americans (not to be confused with recent immigrant Africans) have a much stronger and closely knit community, a common history and similar problems in pracitcally every place they can be found in the USA. They are practically all desendants of slaves and have hold practically no connection to their mother land, and they all speak english as their first language.

We do not. We all arrived at different times, speak different languages, and hold on to traditions of the mother land which clash with each other at times. The needs of recent arrivals do not match those of the second and third generations.

So basically there are many Asian American communities, but there is no all encompassing one.

[SunWuKong]

unrelated to hapas, but...

i have to admit that i am beginning to take a less harsh view on my opinion that there's "no Asian American community". i hung out with white people yesterday, and i realised that that was probably the first time i socialised in a "white crowd" since being in DC for a year. most of my friends here are Chinese, and while i have friends and acquaintances who are non-Chinese Asian, i think the only non-Asian people i know, i know from work or they're my neighbors (well, there was that Native American Asiaphile chick, but that's another story). i can't really figure it out. it's not like we talk about "Asian American issues" when we get together, although one Korean friend did drag all of us out to watch Better Luck Tomorrow. so i'm just wondering why i don't have any non-Asian people in my social circles. i mean, we like to go eat Asian food more than we like to eat non-Asian food, and we like to go to karaoke, etc etc. but that seems kind of flimsy of a social "bond". i'm sure there are non-Asian people who like to do the same things. yet on the other hand, i don't think i'm being pretentious if one of my favourite cuisine is Korean, even though i'm Chinese. i mean, i like Korean food not because i'm Asian. i like Korean food just because i think it tastes good.


p.s. - eugene, tell me where i can find the secret hapa parties. i can pretend to be a "hapa brutha" to the girlies there. :D

[coagulated fat]

so i'm just wondering why i don't have any non-Asian people in my social circles. i mean, we like to go eat Asian food more than we like to eat non-Asian food, and we like to go to karaoke, etc etc. but that seems kind of flimsy of a social "bond". i'm sure there are non-Asian people who like to do the same things.
THe social bond that Asians have... I don't really think there is much there either aside from the fact that we all look the same. I have very few white friends, and this strikes me as odd since I'm really whitewashed.

[BeTheReds]

Split from shameless self promotion in Hapa forum.

[lethal]

Over the past few months, I think I've come around to BTR's POV. However, even given that there probably is not an Asian American community, people of Asian desent living in the U.S. can work together for common goals, even if it is not as adhesive as the African American community.

I see Asian Americans as more analogous to the Hispanic/Latino community without the bond of a common language.

This coming from a guy who is President of the APALSA at his school, an organization of Asian Americans...

[kimpossible]

Well I would definitely say there is some sort of acknowledgment going on between Asians, but it's like layers of an onion in strength of bond, allegiance, etc., and the boudaries of the Asian communities are very elastic. For instance if you're Taiwanese, you'll know most of the Taiwanese in the area if there are enough to know. If not enough, there may be an informal or formal effort to know other Chinese. If not enough Chinese you may branch out to know Asians of other ethnicities.

For instance, if you don't live in an area with many Asians you may go more out of your way to get to know Asians of a different ethnicity. Or help someone out as a 'fellow' Asian, stuff like that. It's still all relative though. In a sea of white faces, you might feel a bond with another Asian face. If a larger number of Asians are around but still the Asians number in minority, you do like we're doing now and congregating somewhat. If you were in Asia or an Asian dominant city you probably wouldn't give a rat's ass about the person next to you if you don't know them or aren't related to them.

And by the way I'm making this as an outsider point of view, not insider. Just FYI.

[BeTheReds]

Maybe I am just completly oblivious to the intra-Asian connection, because my dad has no friends other than Koreans and the occasional white. And as you can tell, I too was never popular with Asian-Americans.

Like I have been saying all along... when the 3+ generation Asian-American population outnumbers the 1st and 2nd, Asian-America will be totally ripe for the innerworkings of a community.

[VV o n g B a]

Like I have been saying all along... when the 3+ generation Asian-American population outnumbers the 1st and 2nd, Asian-America will be totally ripe for the innerworkings of a community.
gotcha. i see your point actually and i don't really disagree. it's a bit like the optimist/pessimist difference. i see the foundations of the future community being laid today while u see that the community doesn't exist as such yet.

[>:^|]

Hmmm ...

I'm starting to think that feeling a pan-Asian connection may be as simple and as complex as the fact that people of Asian ethnicity view each other as whole persons. That is, while non-Asians often have very stereotypical views of Asians, Asians know that Asians are all individuals and see and treat them in this regard.

Look at yellowworld. While it might be said that the sense of community here is because of great administration (which is true), and that people who are stupid are de-nutted early and often, it is obvious that there is an understanding here that there is no single "Asian experience."

Then again, maybe we're just all smarter than average. :glare:

[nonamerasian]

Yes, I would have to admit that YW is an online Asian American community. However, I am not debating whether or not small unrelated Asian American communities exist.

I am debating that some believe that there is one all encompassing Asian American community with common history goals needs and aspirations. In short, that all (or most) of the people who can be identified as Asian-American see his fellow Asian-Americans as brothers, or "My people" etc...

African Americans (not to be confused with recent immigrant Africans) have a much stronger and closely knit community, a common history and similar problems in pracitcally every place they can be found in the USA. They are practically all desendants of slaves and have hold practically no connection to their mother land, and they all speak english as their first language.

We do not. We all arrived at different times, speak different languages, and hold on to traditions of the mother land which clash with each other at times. The needs of recent arrivals do not match those of the second and third generations.

So basically there are many Asian American communities, but there is no all encompassing one.

The African-American community is just one ethnic group like the Chinese-American or the Korean-American community.

To compare apples with apples, the “Black-community” should be compared to the “Asian community.”

The African-American community really shouldn’t be compared to the Asian-American community because while terms like Chinese-American refer to what is considered in the U.S. as one nationality, as does African-American, Asian-American comprises of many nationalities.

To not compare apples with oranges, the better comparison would be to the Black-community, which also comprises of several nationalities.

Being that there are areas in the U.S. where the Black community is made up predominately of non-African-Americans (and areas where this was the case probably even before the Black Renaissance), it is about time the distinction has been made not only within much of these communities, but also out. However, I think the reason this has taken soooo long to happen is part of the reason why I won’t sneer at the broad term “Black-American community” and probably why there will be a distinct Asian-American community sometime soon, if not already.

In the U.S., people like to simplify things when it comes to race/ethnicity/nationality. Due to this simplification, if something is to effect a Bangladeshi, it is not too surprising if we find out it also had an effect on a Hispanic, Indian, Middle Easterner, West Indian, light-skinned Black, or etc.

While a person may identify themselves in a narrow category based on these things, they may be affected by the issues of another category by others who identify him/her based on those things.

To illustrate this, Ghanaian in America on a work visa may be referred to by a layman as an “African-American.” A person with the last name Kim may be told “Happy Chinese New Year” by a layman.

While the Ghanaian may not relate to African-Americans at all or the Korean scoff at being confused as Chinese, Americans, by large, not see the same differences that these two see.

This is why if I were the Ghanaian and I were treated as an African-American, it would hit me that what affects them will probably affect me. If I were the Korean and heard someone screaming that they feel like killing a Chinaman, I would feel threatened.

It is not only a common culture that forms communities in this country. It is perception by the mainstream and the affects of that which plays a part as well. When things begin to affect those with similar phenotype similarly or indiscriminately, sometimes a new community is formed by those sharing that phenotype.

Right now, most East Asians in the U.S. are the product of recent immigrant arrivals and so that will slowdown how long it takes for the group to start identifying as one, but through time, I feel the similar concerns and experiences (in the U.S.) will help forge a community identity. Socio-political interests will help forge an Asian-American community. The generational succession of Americanization will help forge an Asian-American community.

I’ve already seen this to a degree with some people of East Asian descent who I know.

I think the Korean constantly taken as being Chinese and the Chinese-American having similar experiences with the Korean has begun a perception of some sort of brotherhood.

But, I guess time will only tell.

[SunWuKong]

Hmmm ...

I'm starting to think that feeling a pan-Asian connection may be as simple and as complex as the fact that people of Asian ethnicity view each other as whole persons. That is, while non-Asians often have very stereotypical views of Asians, Asians know that Asians are all individuals and see and treat them in this regard.


not necessarily true. Asian people of different ethnicities have stereotypical views of Asian people from other ethnicities.

[>:^|]

Hmmm ...

I should have qualified that. Yeah, people of Asian ethnicities often harbor stereotypes of other Asian groups. But I think among the people I know who have pan-Asian friendships, they are more likely to see other Asians as complex individuals apart from (U.S.? Western? Orientalized?) notions of "Asianness."

Maybe it comes down to what HH says:

For instance if you're Taiwanese, you'll know most of the Taiwanese in the area if there are enough to know. If not enough, there may be an informal or formal effort to know other Chinese. If not enough Chinese you may branch out to know Asians of other ethnicities.

It may be a function of numbers, or a function of English-language (or shared language) ability, or a function of just seeing that yellow face in a crowd of others.

Or maybe, as I said initially, it's a function of smarts. :)

[BeTheReds]

Asian-American comprises of many nationalities.

To not compare apples with oranges, the better comparison would be to the Black-community, which also comprises of several nationalities.




Actually no, Asian-Americans and Black-Americans have but one nationality between them, American.

I know I've beaten it to death, but I won't ever shut up about this problem.

Your nationality is the nation in which you hold citizenship, meaning all Americans who do not have dual citizenship are of one nationality.

Race is your genetic makeup.

I know what you meant by nationality in this case, but I wish in the future that you might be a little more careful with the word.

[>:^|]

Hmmm ...

I think that maybe community is what the people within acknowledge to be a community. Therefore, yellowworld exists as a community because the people on yellowworld acknowledge it. So in that sense, if you don't acknowledge the community, community does not exist for you.


Your nationality is the nation in which you hold citizenship, meaning all Americans who do not have dual citizenship are of one nationality.

Boy, I wish BTR had been there when a professor singled me out at a seminar to ask my nationality. When I told the idiot moron dufus that I am an American, he explained to me very patronizingly that I was mistaken, and that perhaps I didn't understand what the word "nationality" meant.

But I think the fact that people often confuse race (ethnicity?) with nationality in the U.S. is reflective of an assumption that only Whites are Americans.

[BeTheReds]

Boy, I wish BTR had been there when a professor singled me out at a seminar to ask my nationality. When I told the idiot moron dufus that I am an American, he explained to me very patronizingly that I was mistaken, and that perhaps I didn't understand what the word "nationality" meant.

But I think the fact that people often confuse race (ethnicity?) with nationality in the U.S. is reflective of an assumption that only Whites are Americans.

You professor is an idiot. You were totally right!

[SunWuKong]

hmm... according to dictionary.com (www.dictionary.com), nationality (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nationality) is more than just citizenship.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

hmm... according to dictionary.com, nationality is more than just citizenship.
The only one which would seem to support calling a US-born American with most cultural ties to the US as a member of a foreign nationality would be this weak-ass definition from something called "Wordnet" published by Princeton University:

n 1: the people of a nation or country or a community of persons bound by a common heritage; 2: the status of belonging to a particular nation by birth or naturalization

[BeTheReds]

I saw dictionary.com.

However, on official documents when they ask your nationality, they don't mean which country do you think you hold the most cultural ties and shared heritage with.. they mean what nation do you hold citizenship in.

My main problem is that people tend to equate White with American. Thus I prefer to use nationality as meaning citizenship. Also, "white" is not a nationality. Neither is "Asian" by either definition.


Of all the definitions on dictionary.com the only one that goes against me is this.

3. A race or people, as determined by common language and character, and not by political bias or divisions; a nation.

Thus, my nationality is Japanese? Since I am a one of the many people who's common language with each other is Japanese and becuase I know how to culturally act in a Japanese setting?

Sorry. I don't really think the person who made up that definition thought it through clearly enough.

[nonamerasian]

Actually no, Asian-Americans and Black-Americans have but one nationality between them, American.

I know I've beaten it to death, but I won't ever shut up about this problem.

Your nationality is the nation in which you hold citizenship, meaning all Americans who do not have dual citizenship are of one nationality.

Race is your genetic makeup.

I know what you meant by nationality in this case, but I wish in the future that you might be a little more careful with the word.

Technically, “nationality” can be interpreted to mean the country where a person is born or the country where that person is a citizen.

While my parents are citizens of this country, I still consider their nationality to be other than American. Although I’m also a citizen of another country, I consider “American” to be my nationality because I was born here.

I don’t consider myself as a person of dual nationalities. I don’t consider anyone of dual nationalities (I however acknowledge that on official documents, there is such a thing as dual nationalities, and due to nationalization, my parents are American.).

However, it’s a term open to interpretation, and that is based on my own.

Nevertheless, my use of the term was still shady. I originally had the term ethnicity in the third paragraph (which is why it still says in the U.S.) and wasn’t happy with it, so I put nationality, but after rereading it after it was posted, I wasn’t entirely happy with it, but couldn’t think of anything better to change it to.

I didn’t intend to convey “race.”

In the rest of the post, ethnicity/nationality/race are used as intended.

The definitions of these terms tend to be my pet peeve as well, but it took a back seat to my pet peeve on the apple and orange African-American comparison.