Separating art from artists' crimes

[kimpossible]

Should art be consdired separate and appreciated on its own merit when it's creator commits criminal acts? In particular I'd like to focus on criminal sexual acts against minors. Seems like we have a few lately.

Been pondering this for a while. I love horror movies and there are a few that I'd like to see made by director Victor Salva. Problem is that Mr. Salva was convicted of molesting boys and I don't want to support him in any fashion. Even if his movies are of interest to me. I'm not claiming the guy is a genius in any way, so granted I'm probably not missing out on much... but I've chosen not to view movies I would have ordinarily seen based on Salva's sexual assualt.

I've come to the same decision regarding The Pianist, a Roman Polanski film. I really want to see but I can't bring myself to do it when he drugged and raped a 13 year old girl. He and R Kelly should get together.

In pondering all this I hearken back to the Marquis DeSade's work, which by today's standards is considered a classic and he, a genius. And truth be told I have read Justine and watched Quills, a film somewhat about him.

So... do I just have a problem with modern day pervs? Should I see these films based on their own merit despite the actions of their creators?

[thaite]

Marquis DeSade, however, besides being quite pervy had a few things to say about the political, religious and social situations of his time

While I haven't seen The Pianist (because, frankly but with respect, I've had enough of movies about the Holocaust), Roman Polanski doesn't have much to say, and neither does Salva.

[applehead]

when i heard about polanski's criminal act,
i was mortified.
i can't believe that other people
agreed to work with him.
since, they're regarded as pariahs in our society.

was DeSade a child molestor?

[deez nuts]

was DeSade a child molestor?

he was freaky deaky. read his work "justine"

his man servent latour was often asked by de sade to snag him young chickies

then there's the "young girls scandal" in which he had like five or six 15 year old female servants that were taken without consent from their parents, allegedly.

he was bob guccione on crystal meth and viagra.

edit: stud.

[angel nympho]

I think supporting someone's work is an entirely different thing from condoning their actions.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Well if the RIAA and the MPAA weren't trying to attack file-downloaders so fiercely, KaZaA would be the perfect solution to this moral quandary. Download their works off the internet and enjoy them without any obligation to give the artist a dime of compensation in return.

[mr. x]

Six words, Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, Kobe Bryant

[shy]

here's another question to add to the initial post....

what if these sex offenders were getting intense phsychotherapy? would that make a difference once people realize that they not only admit to their criminal acts but are seeking rehab about it?

this is a tough decision. i think it's a personal choice. but i can respect those that ban such work from these artists.

[Chester]

[QUOTE=Chasiubao_Boy]he was bob guccione on crystal meth and viagra.QUOTE]

Nuh-uh. Bob Guccione is merely a second-rate pornographer.

If you'd like to make an analogy and don't mind using another second-rate personality, I humbly suggest this: The Marquis de Sade was Rick James...with vision and ambition.

[kitty]

I think art should be appreciated for it's own sake. Just because someone is a child molester or a rapist doesn't mean he can't bring a unique perspective to his paintings or other works... Art I've always thought is beneficial because of the process of understanding another person through visual creations; it's as much about the process of losing yourself in some else's vision as it is about the vision itself.

Sure, child pornography or whatever is not something to be supported, but I don't think you are saying "I'm cool with molestation" by looking at the guy's stuff... The dude's movies really should have nothing to do with his private sexual practices.

[deez nuts]

[QUOTE=Chasiubao_Boy]he was bob guccione on crystal meth and viagra.QUOTE]

Nuh-uh. Bob Guccione is merely a second-rate pornographer.

If you'd like to make an analogy and don't mind using another second-rate personality, I humbly suggest this: The Marquis de Sade was Rick James...with vision and ambition.

nah, no gerri curls james.

how about john stagliano w/o the video camera?

[Chester]

nah, no gerri curls james.

Remember what James went to jail for?

how about john stagliano w/o the video camera?

No. Yet another mere pornographer. Maybe if you felt like searching for some prominent fetish director, I'd concur, but John Stagliano? I'm not a die-hard de Sade enthusiast, but he wasn't just a dirty-minded clown.

[deez nuts]

Remember what James went to jail for?



No. Yet another mere pornographer. Maybe if you felt like searching for some prominent fetish director, I'd concur, but John Stagliano? I'm not a die-hard de Sade enthusiast, but he wasn't just a dirty-minded clown.

the wet look loses mucho points in my book.

i have to go with the combination of marv albert and woody allen aka marv allen creating the ultimate super freak.

[Chester]

i have to go with the combination of marv albert and woody allen aka marv allen creating the ultimate super freak.

I understand the aversion to the jeri curl. But, dude -- the motherfucker was jailed, along with his girlfriend, for kidnapping a girl and holding her in their house to rape her and torture her with hot crack pipes and other sadistic shit.

Marv Albert is a pathetic moron who likes to dress up in women's panties and bite chicks on the ass. Woody Allen is a pathetic schlub who married his adopted daughter. Neither is even remotely in Rick James's league, much less de Sade's.

[deez nuts]

I understand the aversion to the jeri curl. But, dude -- the motherfucker was jailed, along with his girlfriend, for kidnapping a girl and holding her in their house to rape her and torture her with hot crack pipes and other sadistic shit.

Marv Albert is a pathetic moron who likes to dress up in women's panties and bite chicks on the ass. Woody Allen is a pathetic schlub who married his adopted daughter. Neither is even remotely in Rick James's league, much less de Sade's.

how about the mormons?

they hold young girls against their will too.

[kimpossible]

Ooh, Woody Allen is another one I avoid. That wasn't hard since I was never interested in his movies to begin with.

[mr. x]

Ooh, Woody Allen is another one I avoid. That wasn't hard since I was never interested in his movies to begin with.

well supposedly his old stuff is good (i watched a bit of one when i was younger and thought it was kinda funny) but these days he is "box office poison" and for good reason.

not just the dirty old man thing but cuz his movies just arent interesting.

get this, in Anything Else, his new movie, i heard the studio had to convince him to hand over the romantic lead to Jason Biggs, not only that but then the marketing campaign pretty much glossed over him.

[Chester]

how about the mormons?

they hold young girls against their will too.

Look, if you can find a Mormon celebrity who has an underage, polygamist household that regularly engages in BDSM, then go ahead and use him instead of Rick James.

[Chester]

Ooh, Woody Allen is another one I avoid. That wasn't hard since I was never interested in his movies to begin with.

What!?! The guy was the man for a good stretch.

Sleeper...Annie Hall...Broadway Danny Rose...Purple Rose of Cairo...Hannah and Her Sisters...all unmissable classics, regardless of what his sexual proclivities may be.

[deez nuts]

Look, if you can find a Mormon celebrity who has an underage, polygamist household that regularly engages in BDSM, then go ahead and use him instead of Rick James.

donnie and marie osmond?

[kitty]

Ooh, Woody Allen is another one I avoid. That wasn't hard since I was never interested in his movies to begin with.

"You can laugh and criticize Michael Jackson if you wanna/
Woody Allen, molested and married his step-daughter/
Same press kickin dirt on Michael's name/
Show Woody and Soon-Yi at the playoff game, holdin hands/
Sit back and just bug, think about that/
Would he get that type of dap if his name was Woody Black?"

--Mos Def, Mr. Nigga

[kimpossible]

What!?! The guy was the man for a good stretch.

Sleeper...Annie Hall...Broadway Danny Rose...Purple Rose of Cairo...Hannah and Her Sisters...all unmissable classics, regardless of what his sexual proclivities may be.

I missed 'em, bubba. Avoid any of his films like the plague, always have. I post about Resident Evil, Underworld and Jeepers Creepers. Don't you have a clue that I'm a philistine when it comes to cinema?

[Chester]

I missed 'em, bubba. Avoid any of his films like the plague, always have. I post about Resident Evil, Underworld and Jeepers Creepers. Don't you have a clue that I'm a philistine when it comes to cinema?

"Bubba"?

Eh...but it's not hoity-toity "artsy" shit. I mean, we're talking Woody Allen here. There really aren't any "grand" themes...just great, snappy, witty writing. They're like movie-length sitcoms.

[nonamerasian]

Should I see these films based on their own merit despite the actions of their creators?

I do think that artist and art should be judged separately, but being the hypocrite that I am, I have had trouble listening to R. Kelly.

The weird thing is that I haven't assumed that he is guilty (or innocent).

They should be separate, but sometimes it's hard.

[kimpossible]

I do think that artist and art should be judged separately, but being the hypocrite that I am, I have had trouble listening to R. Kelly.

The weird thing is that I haven't assumed that he is guilty (or innocent).

They should be separate, but sometimes it's hard.

Yeah, it's a tough call for me when it involves a minor in a sexual manner. I think with Salva it's more cut and dry since he was convicted and there is no doubt to his guilt.

[Kuchana]

how about the mormons?

they hold young girls against their will too.

EXCUSE ME????????? :rolleyes: Explain your reasoning.

As for me, I would find it difficult to not hold the art and the artist separate from the other. Sure the artist may be a genius but it doesn't excuse the fact that he's a perv or such and I wouldn't support him because of it.

[Hiroshi2]

Me and some friends were talking about this. Actually, we were talking about R. Kelly specifically, about how serious his charges are (child pornography, sex with a minor, etc). But I love R. Kelly in terms of his music, to me he is a true artist and I love his music. So my thing is - are you able to seperate the art from the artist? If your favorite musician was accused of something serious (and disgusting) or even convicted of it, would you look at his/her music the same way? Would you still listen to their music? I think it's interesting because it seems ridiculous (some people might say they can't listen to "Honey Love" the same way because of the charges, for example) but still................I love the music and so in my mind, I guess I just kinda dismiss or forget about what he's accused of when I listen to the music. Kinda funny, actually. Are you able to do this or do you believe a musician and his music, or more broadly, an artist and his art, are one and the same, or are they really seperate?

[ism]

Most people seem to be okay with Gary Glitter.

[Hiroshi2]

Who is he?

[fossilfuel]

Most people seem to be okay with Gary Glitter.

When I was in Cambodia, I ended up travelling with this ragtag group of brits and irish. They kept telling me to keep on the lookout for Gary Glitter. I had no clue who he was, but I was wary of old white men with young girls. Unfortunately, the place was swamped with them =/

I can usually can separate the artist from the music. In some respects, we expect musicians and rock stars (or whatever genre) to be bad boys and break the law.

I am not justifying it, but I think in R. Kelly's case, people don't react as strongly to it because the girl was pretty developed. She was 14 - and 14 year olds do have sex. If she were younger, I'm sure there would be a greater moral backlash. Still, every time I hear Ignition, I still think of the Pee on You song.

edit: ^ Gary Glitter is some washed up Brit glam rock star that is a convicted pedophile. He is currently on the run and is believed to be hiding out in Cambodia somewhere

[missmeow]

No, which is why I don't watch Polanski films no matter how "great" they are.

[ism]

Who is he?Like fossilfuel said, 70's glam rock star convicted of child porn in the UK. He moved to Cuba then to Cambodia and I think he was expelled. Anyway, you hear his song all the time at sports venues, "Rock and Roll Part 2" (they "Hey" song).

[Irezumi Kiss]

Gary Glitter, huh...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/515000/images/_517863_glitter300.jpg
Whew...if I were a kid I'd DEFINITELY be running in the opposite direction...he looks like a reject from the old Sid and Marty Krofft saturday morning tv show!