Driver's Licenses for Illegals?

[amietron]

Davis Slammed on Calif. Driver's Licenses
Calif. Gov. Davis Slammed for Waivering on Driver's Licenses for Illegal Immigrants

The Associated Press


DANA POINT, Calif. Sept. 5 —
Arnold Schwarzenegger on Friday criticized Gov. Gray Davis' support of a bill granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, the same day the governor signed the landmark legislation.

Schwarzenegger, the leading Republican candidate in the Oct. 7 recall election, said Davis flip-flopped on his support for the bill and added that the new law raises security concerns.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20030905_1951.html

Would you support the state in giving illegal immigrants driver's licenses? Personally, I think getting a license is a privilege, just like voting in elections. I say it's a no-go. It doesn't matter to me how much an illegal needs to be mobile and get around to run errands or whatnot. There are other ways they can get around. Convenience isn't the question. Fairness isn't the question either.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Sure, give one to whoever wants a driver's license regardless of immigration status, provided he or his employer is willing to pay for all administrative, medical, law enforcement, translation, and legal costs the law-breaking entrant ever incurs.

Any employers up for that one? Didn't think so ...

[AngryABCGirl]

It makes senese to give illegals in CA driver license's simply for liability sake since then they'll be forced to buy auto insurance with it. Also since illegals are driivng around anyway, and I share raods with them... some of them still fucking drive like they're in the motherland and it's a bitch if you get in an accident with them when they have no documents.

[SunWuKong]

Sure, give one to whoever wants a driver's license regardless of immigration status, provided he or his employer is willing to pay for all administrative, medical, law enforcement, translation, and legal costs the law-breaking entrant ever incurs.

Any employers up for that one? Didn't think so ...


guilty until proven innocent? nice...

(aside from the fact that they're here illegally, that is. :p )


actually i think what the federal government needs to do is issue identity cards to everyone. i mean they already have records of everybody that's legally here anyway.

[angel nympho]

It makes senese to give illegals in CA driver license's simply for liability sake since then they'll be forced to buy auto insurance with it. Also since illegals are driivng around anyway, and I share raods with them... some of them still fucking drive like they're in the motherland and it's a bitch if you get in an accident with them when they have no documents.

They're illegal immigrants... They shouldn't be in this COUNTRY illegally, let alone DRIVING illegally.

[SunWuKong]

They're illegal immigrants... They shouldn't be in this COUNTRY illegally, let alone DRIVING illegally.


well how well is California in catching illegals? let's say you get into an accident with one and it was the illegal's fault. he's got no insurance and he's got no driver's licence. how do you intend to get money from him?

[thaite]

No, I think it's a bad idea.

If they want to legitimize illegals then they need to do it another way by recording and documenting them first before issuing privileges.

[In-The-Flesh]

well how well is California in catching illegals? let's say you get into an accident with one and it was the illegal's fault. he's got no insurance and he's got no driver's licence. how do you intend to get money from him?

It should be just like Seinfeid, they have to work as your butler until the debut is paid off.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

well how well is California in catching illegals? let's say you get into an accident with one and it was the illegal's fault. he's got no insurance and he's got no driver's licence. how do you intend to get money from him?
Ask him for the names of any his accomplices who have helped him violate the law and remain in the country illegally: landlords, the guy who sold him the car, and most especially, employers. If we make employers into the de-facto guarantors of IIs and maybe see some agrobusiness consortium end up paying tens of millions cuz one of their employees ran down some guy at a traffic light and knocked off a few of his limbs, maybe employers would start to realize that hiring IIs is just as much and even more so breaking the law as evading inspection when crossing the border.

[angel nympho]

well how well is California in catching illegals? let's say you get into an accident with one and it was the illegal's fault. he's got no insurance and he's got no driver's licence. how do you intend to get money from him?
Beat the shit out of him and steal his wallet. Duh.

Either way, if he's an illegal immigrant I really would be satisfied deporting him instead. And, assuming the accident was bad enough to sustain sufficient damage to my car, he'll probably get busted for driving without a license and being an illegal and hopefully he'll get hauled off anyway.

I just don't think giving this fucker a drivers' license will do anything to deter illegals from moving in next door to me. Dude, there's this fucking huge group of Mexicans (illegal, I assume) living in this construction site across the street from me. Fuckers! They make too much noise.

[SunWuKong]

Beat the shit out of him and steal his wallet. Duh.

Either way, if he's an illegal immigrant I really would be satisfied deporting him instead. And, assuming the accident was bad enough to sustain sufficient damage to my car, he'll probably get busted for driving without a license and being an illegal and hopefully he'll get hauled off anyway.

I just don't think giving this fucker a drivers' license will do anything to deter illegals from moving in next door to me. Dude, there's this fucking huge group of Mexicans (illegal, I assume) living in this construction site across the street from me. Fuckers! They make too much noise.


oh so you don't care about having him pay for the damages done to your car?

[amietron]

oh so you don't care about having him pay for the damages done to your car?
Hello? You heard the woman. She said she'd have more peace of mind if the fucker were deported than getting dough for her car. :)

[SunWuKong]

Hello? You heard the woman. She said she'd have more peace of mind if the fucker were deported than getting dough for her car. :)


then don't you think he'd just run for it if he can't be held accountable? if he's in danger of deportation everytime he gets into an accident, then he's not even going to stick around after the accident.

[shaka.brah]

Davis Slammed on Calif. Driver's Licenses
Calif. Gov. Davis Slammed for Waivering on Driver's Licenses for Illegal Immigrants

The Associated Press


DANA POINT, Calif. Sept. 5 —
Arnold Schwarzenegger on Friday criticized Gov. Gray Davis' support of a bill granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, the same day the governor signed the landmark legislation.

Schwarzenegger, the leading Republican candidate in the Oct. 7 recall election, said Davis flip-flopped on his support for the bill and added that the new law raises security concerns.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20030905_1951.html

Would you support the state in giving illegal immigrants driver's licenses? Personally, I think getting a license is a privilege, just like voting in elections. I say it's a no-go. It doesn't matter to me how much an illegal needs to be mobile and get around to run errands or whatnot. There are other ways they can get around. Convenience isn't the question. Fairness isn't the question either.


It's bad deal for the legal citizens of California and he is only doing it for one purpose, in the hopes of receiving more votes... This is another reason why Davis has to go ...

[amietron]

then don't you think he'd just run for it if he can't be held accountable? if he's in danger of deportation everytime he gets into an accident, then he's not even going to stick around after the accident.
no. he'd just hide out in CA some more. it's a cycle. they never leave. why do you think more than 50% of CA's population is latino?

[yoMAMA]

Dude, there's this fucking huge group of Mexicans (illegal, I assume) living in this construction site across the street from me. Fuckers! They make too much noise.


I have the same situation here, there's a construction crew (all latino) doing roofing during the day.

It's quite noisy.

However, like it or not, latinos has become such a force in california that no politicians dares to mess with them.

It's a simple reality: lose the latino vote, and it's all over.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

However, like it or not, latinos has become such a force in california that no politicians dares to mess with them.

It's a simple reality: lose the latino vote, and it's all over.
What "latino vote?" Even in California they're barely 16% of registered voters. Which is smaller than the margin by which voters supported Prob 187. And a third of Latinos voted FOR it. Outside California, Florida, and Texas, they're not worth mentioning. Politicians pander to them not for votes, but for dollars, and cuz they couldn't grow a backbone. they're afraid of MALDEF and Mecha throwing around these lame repetitive "racism" and "anti-immigrant" charges which you'd find echoed on the front pages of SF Chron, NYT, etc.

[537]

then don't you think he'd just run for it if he can't be held accountable? if he's in danger of deportation everytime he gets into an accident, then he's not even going to stick around after the accident.


Hey MK, I hear you being the devil's advocate here or something. But for someone to be in the country illegally and driving illegally in the first place, what makes you think this same person wouldn't flee the scene of the accident even if he had a driver's license?

In my opinion, giving someone who is here illegally a driver's license is counterproductive to the whole purpose of what the INS is responsible for. In the midst of the increased awareness especially around this time of year (read, Sept. 11), I would think illegal immigrants would have a close eye kept on them. I'm not saying illegal immigrants are directly related to terrorism...I'm just saying there needs to be some sort of control in regards to keeping records of who is here legally. The moment you give driver's licenses to people that are here illegally, you are in essence telling them (and any community official asking for identification) that the state sanctions their presence. I'm partly afraid in seeing how high California's population would grow in a matter of years or even months.

[nonamerasian]

For me, the question is which illegals are going to be eligible for the license.

Will it be any Jose-schmo who makes it to this side, or will this only pertain to those employed and already in the process of seeking residency?

I believe the only way I could support this bill is if it demands something similar to the latter.

[Faithless]

They're illegal immigrants... They shouldn't be in this COUNTRY illegally, let alone DRIVING illegally.

Right, they're in this country illegally doing the dirty work that we won't do, I suppose -- i.e, stomping the grapes, doing the domestic work, doing the day labor for construction and what not.

[Faithless]

It makes senese to give illegals in CA driver license's simply for liability sake since then they'll be forced to buy auto insurance with it. Also since illegals are driivng around anyway, and I share raods with them... some of them still fucking drive like they're in the motherland and it's a bitch if you get in an accident with them when they have no documents.

Wonder how many would come-in to get a drivers license if they then get their immigrant status checked and then get deported. Unless there's some sort of amnesty.

Is there realizable revenue in it for California?

[nonamerasian]

Not only would such a bill help those types of workers.

The bill may help those illegals who came here as children, but haven't received their citizenship as yet to obtain a license not only for driving purposes, but identification as well.

[angel nympho]

Right, they're in this country illegally doing the dirty work that we won't do, I suppose -- i.e, stomping the grapes, doing the domestic work, doing the day labor for construction and what not.


i know they make up a lot of our working class.. and basically hold up the economy of california and all that, but bottom line, they're in our country illegally and it doesnt make sense to me that a government whose job is to enforce laws overlooks this, but busts me for smoking a joint while i walk the dog. (hypothetically, of course..... )
instead of going to this extra extent to keep the illegals happy, they should come up with a fucking better idea so we dont have to depend on them to wipe our rich asses for us, no?

[nonamerasian]

. . .instead of going to this extra extent to keep the illegals happy. . .

Is all of this really just to keep illegals happy?

The same illegals who are largely politically uninvolved and don't have the right to vote in the first place?

Who may have many legal members of their ethnic groups in the U.S., but many of those legal members don't use their right to vote and/or through time become apathetic to immigrant issues much less to those of illegals?

I heard on Fox News people debate that such measures are to keep illegals happy and to buy illegals' votes (someone should send them the memo saying illegals can't vote), but I don't buy it.

The issues must be beneficial in some other way, the way the issues are pushed.

[SunWuKong]

i know they make up a lot of our working class.. and basically hold up the economy of california and all that, but bottom line, they're in our country illegally and it doesnt make sense to me that a government whose job is to enforce laws overlooks this, but busts me for smoking a joint while i walk the dog. (hypothetically, of course..... )
instead of going to this extra extent to keep the illegals happy, they should come up with a fucking better idea so we dont have to depend on them to wipe our rich asses for us, no?


well, i think they also don't crack down on smoking MJ as much as they are able to. law enforcement lets a lot of stuff go. ever been to a college party? :D

[SunWuKong]

anyway, i think this is just something to give illegals a chance to be accountable. the country's doing a half-ass job of keeping illegals out of the country. it's the same thing with gun control and the drug war. do we keep doing a half-ass job? or do we give them more legitimacy?

[amietron]

For me, the question is which illegals are going to be eligible for the license.

Will it be any Jose-schmo who makes it to this side, or will this only pertain to those employed and already in the process of seeking residency?

which ones are eligible shouldn't even be part of the question. it's whether you think it's a good idea to license people who aren't supposed to be here in the first place.

[SunWuKong]

which ones are eligible shouldn't even be part of the question. it's whether you think it's a good idea to license people who aren't supposed to be here in the first place.


you may even be able to make a parallel argument about passing out clean needles for drug users. or even giving teenagers condoms.

[nonamerasian]

which ones are eligible shouldn't even be part of the question. it's whether you think it's a good idea to license people who aren't supposed to be here in the first place.

Not all illegals are on the same field.

For one, there are many who did not come here by their own choice, nor do I feel they should all have to go back where they came from. Although not on paper, many of them are American. They contribute to the economy, but don’t receive much back. They spend most of their lives here and hardly remember anything else.

They are illegals brought here as children.

Once reaching adulthood, many go on to try to become legal, but this process is often long.

It isn’t too unusual for someone to start that process after high school and have their immigration lawyer tell them that they may be in their 30’s once the process is over.

I think that for people like them, who are in the process of becoming legal, they should be permitted to have some more rights than many other illegal immigrants, such as the right to drive a car.

[angel nympho]

Is all of this really just to keep illegals happy?

The same illegals who are largely politically uninvolved and don't have the right to vote in the first place?

Who may have many legal members of their ethnic groups in the U.S., but many of those legal members don't use their right to vote and/or through time become apathetic to immigrant issues much less to those of illegals?

I heard on Fox News people debate that such measures are to keep illegals happy and to buy illegals' votes (someone should send them the memo saying illegals can't vote), but I don't buy it.

The issues must be beneficial in some other way, the way the issues are pushed.


excuse me. to keep the hispanic population happy.

[angel nympho]

anyway, i think this is just something to give illegals a chance to be accountable. the country's doing a half-ass job of keeping illegals out of the country. it's the same thing with gun control and the drug war. do we keep doing a half-ass job? or do we give them more legitimacy?

how about neither? i think a better approach would be to stop doing a half assed job at keeping illegals out of the country. duh. or at least make it easier for people who want to come here to work to come into our country legally.

[shaka.brah]

which ones are eligible shouldn't even be part of the question. it's whether you think it's a good idea to license people who aren't supposed to be here in the first place.

EXCELLENT RESPONSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SunWuKong]

or at least make it easier for people who want to come here to work to come into our country legally.


if your argument is that they shouldn't be here in the first place, why would you want to make it easier for them to be here legally?

so they should be legalised more easily, but giving them driver's licenses is a no-no? :confused:

[yoMAMA]

how about neither? i think a better approach would be to stop doing a half assed job at keeping illegals out of the country. duh. or at least make it easier for people who want to come here to work to come into our country legally.

I remember a quote from a Mexican dance group I saw on campus:

'this country welcomes with open arm people from across an ocean. But they deny us who are only across an river.'


So if a Californian whose ancestors immigrated from Germany has the right to live there, I don't see why Mexicans can't immigrate to California as well.

They are only crossing the border to have a better life and future for their children, just like the early European immigrants from the first pilgrims to the gold rushing 49ers.


But i don't think California is going to become more xenophobic, because lations are gonna be the majority pretty soon :D

[shaka.brah]

I remember a quote from a Mexican dance group I saw on campus:

'this country welcomes with open arm people from across an ocean. But they deny us who are only across an river.'


So if a Californian whose ancestors immigrated from Germany has the right to live there, I don't see why Mexicans can't immigrate to California as well.

They are only crossing the border to have a better life and future for their children, just like the early European immigrants from the first pilgrims to the gold rushing 49ers.


But i don't think California is going to become more xenophobic, because lations are gonna be the majority pretty soon :D

So if a Californian whose ancestors immigrated from Germany has the right to live there, I don't see why Mexicans can't immigrate to California as well. ????

Mexicans can immigrate to the US, "legally" .......

[AliBabaIncorporated]

But i don't think California is going to become more xenophobic, because lations are gonna be the majority pretty soon
Right, cuz everyone knows that Latinos can't possibly be xenophobic. Which is of course why we see Mexicans pushing so hard to liberalize Mexico's immigration policies towards, say, Guatemalans.

[amietron]

But i don't think California is going to become more xenophobic, because lations are gonna be the majority pretty soon :D
mind you, they already are.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

mind you, they already are.
only among kids under 18. In the general population they're running at about 30% of California these days.

[nonamerasian]

excuse me. to keep the hispanic population happy.

Do they already have that much pull in California?

I thought more than half of the Hispanic population in California aren't even registered to vote, a significant number of the registered Hispanics don't vote, and it has been increasingly difficult to pigeonhole the remaining registered and voting Hispanic population.

Have things changed?

[achtungbaby]

Sorry to jump into this so late...but I am typically opposed to any sort of anti-immigration that our state conjures up, so I was mildly encouraged when I heard about this particular one. Keep in mind, it wasn't until 1994 that we started to require that driver's be legal residents.

However, after taking a deeper look into this, it's extremely flawed piece of legislation that our Governor vetoed twice before and only approved this time to win brown votes. In addition, because of the huge loopholes inherent in it, it's pretty much asking for people to commit fraud. Regardless of how ridiculous our war on terror is, there are some very basic steps our state governments should take to protect its citizens, and using the driver's license has been an effective way of determining identity.

[achtungbaby]

Moving to Rant.

[angel nympho]

then don't you think he'd just run for it if he can't be held accountable? if he's in danger of deportation everytime he gets into an accident, then he's not even going to stick around after the accident.


Okay, the car accident argument, I really think is a bankrupt idea. There is NOTHING you can do if you get in an accident with someone who doesn't have a drivers' license. What if some 15 year old steals his mom's car and crashes into yours? You wanna give every reckless teenager a license, too? What if someone get's their license suspended and hits your car? Seriously, shit happens, but I don't wanna give anyone who wants one a license just because they MIGHT hit my car.

[shaka.brah]

The new California Drivers License. Thank you Davis and Bustamante...




http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/team_dirty2001/vwp?.dir=/drivers+licenses&.dnm=mexlic.jpg&.view=t

[golden_buns]

Right, cuz everyone knows that Latinos can't possibly be xenophobic. Which is of course why we see Mexicans pushing so hard to liberalize Mexico's immigration policies towards, say, Guatemalans.

Yeah, the irony about Mexico is that while it begs the US to go soft or even naturalize their immigrants, their immigration laws are strict and it's not like foreigners get treated that great. Ask the korean shop owners in Mexico how they're labeled as 'mafiosos' and sometimes their businesses get shut by authorities just because of speculation of doing something illegal while not having any proof of it.

[angel nympho]

if your argument is that they shouldn't be here in the first place, why would you want to make it easier for them to be here legally?

so they should be legalised more easily, but giving them driver's licenses is a no-no? :confused:


No no, not at all. They can get a drivers license whenever they want.... AS SOON AS THEY ARE LEGAL CITIZENS.

[angel nympho]

I remember a quote from a Mexican dance group I saw on campus:

'this country welcomes with open arm people from across an ocean. But they deny us who are only across an river.'


So if a Californian whose ancestors immigrated from Germany has the right to live there, I don't see why Mexicans can't immigrate to California as well.

They are only crossing the border to have a better life and future for their children, just like the early European immigrants from the first pilgrims to the gold rushing 49ers.


But i don't think California is going to become more xenophobic, because lations are gonna be the majority pretty soon :D


They can immigrate here if they want. I'm not against that at all... It would just be nice if they did it LEGALLY.

[Green_Circle]

No no, not at all. They can get a drivers license whenever they want.... AS SOON AS THEY ARE LEGAL CITIZENS.
I'm wif Angel all the way!

[yangbahn50]

I am quite upset that Gray Davis signed a bill allowing ILLLEGAL immigrants the right to drive in California (or shall I say Mexifornia?).

First of all, as many of you folks mention, they drive like maniacs. Not all illegal Mexican immigrants drive like idiots, but the good majority of them do. They swerve in an out of lanes on the freeway (in Los Angeles), tailgate, drive with their high beams on,...and worse...the valet parking attendants at my apartment (Mexicans..but don't know if they're illegals) scratched my car TWICE within a year!

Second, I think this drivers' license issue is part of the Mexicans "reconquista" agenda. This is basically their plan to re-take the southwestern regions of the US. In fact I've heard that Los Angeles was the capital of Aztlan...their imaginary land, that's now part of the US, including Arizona, Texas, N Mexico, parts of Oregon and Colorado.

To be fair, why not give out California drivers license to illegal immigrants of other countries?

All Davis wants, is the votes from the large Latino voter population. Trust me, they DO play a big role. This is why there's a heated contest between Schwarzenegger and Bustamante.

[shaka.brah]

I am quite upset that Gray Davis signed a bill allowing ILLLEGAL immigrants the right to drive in California (or shall I say Mexifornia?).


To be fair, why not give out California drivers license to illegal immigrants of other countries?

All Davis wants, is the votes from the large Latino voter population. Trust me, they DO play a big role. This is why there's a heated contest between Schwarzenegger and Bustamante.


If Davis were smart, he would have mentioned ALL "illegal" immigrants be granted drivers licenses, not just Latinos. SB-60 is aimed at Latinos and nobody else. Which leads me to believe he is playing the race card, in hopes of keeping his job. If Davis keeps his job as Gov, do you realize that when SB-60 takes effect, that a CA Drivers Licenses WILL NOT be recognized as a legal form of ID in some states ??? Thank you Gray Davis for selling out the "legal" citizens of California for a few measly votes !!!!!!!!

[Fireblade]

Oh yea, Gray Davis is trying to pass two more bills. One includes FREE community college tuition to illegal immigrants. (So while I pay for my college tuition, a guy/gal from mexico can take my spot in class and not pay for it, cuz they're ILLEGAL, not legal mind you.) Also he's trying to pass a bill that would recognize Mexican Citizen IDs as proper ID, so they can bypass the entire Driver's License thing, so long as they're from Mexico. What's next? Free health care and housing? You can be sure it's gonna happen.

And last year George W. Bush wanted to provide Amesty to all occupants of Mexico. So in turn they can be citizens in the US without having to BE citizens. Thank the people in office, who obviously think it's ok to provide rights to people who aren't even of our country.

I wouldn't have a problem if they would make the immigration process a lot easier, but this is just NOT the way. You know it's just a way to provide quick votes in their favor.

[yangbahn50]

And before you know it, California will turn into "Mexifornia." Just look at the rising Latino population in California, Arizona, N Mexico and Texas! They are reproducing like crazy! No offense, but man, when I first moved to Los Angeles, I was shocked to see Mexican middle school females strolling their baby carriages on the streets!

As for the drivers license issue, again, I'm totaly against it. Just because you have a driver's license, doesn't mean that you have to have auto insurance. It's the car registration that requires you to have some kind of auto insurance...NOT the driver's license.
In addition, I hate to say this, but the majority of 1st gen. Mexicans (the FOBby ones) drive like maniacs! I always see them tailgating drivers ..no matter whether you're on the freeway or local street. They also speed like jerks, and merge in and out of traffic. In fact one Mexican truck driver almost slammed into the side of my car this past summer! SO oooo annoying.

[mtso]

I think the whole situation sucks. The bottom line is:

Just by being here in the country, they are breaking the law. Giving them drivers' licenses is an **incentive** to stay, and an **incentive** for others to come here illegally. We need more **deterrents** to keep the illegals away, not incentives for them to come and stay.

I think the argument that an illegal immigrant who got into an accident will run from the scene doesn't hold water. There will be witnesses to the accident, someone will remember the car's license plate number and description, and the owner will be tracked down. If the owner is indeed the illegal immigrant, then he is caught! If the owner is not the illegal immigrant, then he better turn in his illegal immigrant buddy who caused the accident, or be charged with a **felony**. A hit and run, from what I remember, is indeed a felony.

And in either case, whether he runs or not, does it matter? How many illegal immigrants really have insurance to pay for the damage to your car? Our best protection is to just have the best coverage we can, and hope that the clown is deported.

[yangbahn50]

Just by being here in the country, they are breaking the law. Giving them drivers' licenses is an **incentive** to stay, and an **incentive** for others to come here illegally. We need more **deterrents** to keep the illegals away, not incentives for them to come and stay

Exactly! Driving is a "privilege"...not a prerequisite. All those illegal Mexicans want is the same rights California residents have...or shall I say US citizens living in Cally.

Having a Cally D-LIcense (or shall I now say Poker Card) allows the illegal immigrants to open bank accounts, get in-state tuition for state colleges, register to vote (so that the Latinos really do play a role in electing Latino politicians/crooks)...and etc.

[kimpossible]

Haven't read all the posts here so sorry if someone has already explained this... but does this cover any and all illegal immigrants or just Mexican? I realize it is implicity aimed at Mexican illegal immigrants but is it technically applicable to any illegal immigrant?

[yangbahn50]

Hello Hapa:

Well, if you've heard on the news (California news that is), Gray Davis signed a bill allowing illegal Mexican immigrants (ONLY them!) to possess California Drivers License. This was during the first week of september of this yaer.

So my argument in my previous post was why not allow illegal immigrants of other countries to possess Cally Drivers License? I think illegal Mexican immigrants can pose as much threat to the US as other illegal immigrants.

In addition, many people here have stated that illegals don't carry auto insurance with them, making you (in most case the victim) the one who pays for all the damages. And trust me, it's not a good situation to be in.

[VV o n g B a]

And before you know it, California will turn into "Mexifornia." Just look at the rising Latino population in California, Arizona, N Mexico and Texas! They are reproducing like crazy! No offense, but man, when I first moved to Los Angeles, I was shocked to see Mexican middle school females strolling their baby carriages on the streets!
the solution to this "problem" which almost sounds like a supremacist rant, is to educate these ppl and bring them into upwardly mobile society. as they take on more first world culture and accumulate wealth, they will have fewer babies b/c it doesn't make sense to have so many.

[kimpossible]

At the risk of getting myself chewed a new one...

The demand for cheap labor creates a system that supports the population of illegal Mexican immigrants in the United States. Price competition will force producers and service providers to take whatever means necessary to cut costs, labor usually being the highest cost. Fact is, the labor of illegal Mexican immigrants meets our demands for lower costs.

I'm not absolving the Mexican population of any individual or community faults or assigning an angelic status to them... I live in a HUGE Mexican populated area and I run into some real assholes, but they're just performing the work none of us will do at the same cost. They didn't create the situation.

The legislation is bullshit though. I'd support some sort of legislation that addressed the glaring immigration issues of migrant labor along the lines of Vicente Fox's request, but no free pass to any one nationality while it's tough shit for the others.

[yangbahn50]

Hello Hapa:
The legislation is bullshit though. I'd support some sort of legislation that addressed the glaring immigration issues of migrant labor along the lines of Vicente Fox's request, but no free pass to any one nationality while it's tough shit for the others.

Yes, I agree. Mexican immigrants are the ones doing all the dirty work, whether it's janitorial or farming, there are the ones who do those kind of tasks.

However, I don't like it when there's "special" preference given to Mexican illegal immigrants.

Why not grant drivers license to Asian illegal immigrants? Or European illegal immigrants (if there are any in Cally)?

Don't Asians also work in kitchen and do janitorial tasks? (though not as much as the Mexicans).

[applehead]

And before you know it, California will turn into "Mexifornia." Just look at the rising Latino population in California, Arizona, N Mexico and Texas! They are reproducing like crazy! No offense, but man, when I first moved to Los Angeles, I was shocked to see Mexican middle school females strolling their baby carriages on the streets!

As for the drivers license issue, again, I'm totaly against it. Just because you have a driver's license, doesn't mean that you have to have auto insurance. It's the car registration that requires you to have some kind of auto insurance...NOT the driver's license.
In addition, I hate to say this, but the majority of 1st gen. Mexicans (the FOBby ones) drive like maniacs! I always see them tailgating drivers ..no matter whether you're on the freeway or local street. They also speed like jerks, and merge in and out of traffic. In fact one Mexican truck driver almost slammed into the side of my car this past summer! SO oooo annoying.

OMG.
there's so many things wrong with this post.
i don't know where to begin.

[yangbahn50]

applehead:

OMG.
there's so many things wrong with this post.
i don't know where to begin.

What's wrong with my post? You always seem to be criticizing my messages.

I said in plain and clear English, that I'm OPPOSED to giving drivers license (Cally ones) to illegal Mexican immigrants. It's totally unfair. They drive like maniacs, don't pay auto insurance and usually are involved in hit and run incidents. THe statistics are there.

Yet, Gray Davis, so f*cking despereate to get back into his gubernatorial position, wants the votes from the Latino population.

If Cally wants to give illegal Mexican immigrants California drivers license, why not do that for immigrants of other countries? I think California's government system is such a circus.

[applehead]

applehead:



What's wrong with my post? You always seem to be criticizing my messages.

I said in plain and clear English, that I'm OPPOSED to giving drivers license (Cally ones) to illegal Mexican immigrants. It's totally unfair. They drive like maniacs, don't pay auto insurance and usually are involved in hit and run incidents. THe statistics are there.

Yet, Gray Davis, so f*cking despereate to get back into his gubernatorial position, wants the votes from the Latino population.

If Cally wants to give illegal Mexican immigrants California drivers license, why not do that for immigrants of other countries? I think California's government system is such a circus.

i'm not ALWAYS criticizing your messages.
what's wrong with your post? let's see.
you figure it out.
it's like talking to a wall.

[yangbahn50]

what's wrong with your post? let's see.
you figure it out.
it's like talking to a wall

Uh, you mean you talking to a wall?

[applehead]

Uh, you mean you talking to a wall?


yeah.
me talking.
you=the wall.

get it?

[yangbahn50]

Whoa...down tiger...grrrr.

Are you calling me a wall because I'm not listening to your opinions?

[kitty]

applehead:



What's wrong with my post? You always seem to be criticizing my messages.

I said in plain and clear English, that I'm OPPOSED to giving drivers license (Cally ones) to illegal Mexican immigrants. It's totally unfair. They drive like maniacs, don't pay auto insurance and usually are involved in hit and run incidents. THe statistics are there.

Yet, Gray Davis, so f*cking despereate to get back into his gubernatorial position, wants the votes from the Latino population.

If Cally wants to give illegal Mexican immigrants California drivers license, why not do that for immigrants of other countries? I think California's government system is such a circus.

I think she's got a problem with the tone of your post, which is frankly terribly anti-Hispanic (is that a word?). Please show me the statistics that you are quoting, if they do indeed exist. While you may, personally, have encountered some poor drivers who happen to be Mexican in origin, but it doesn't mean that

a) all Mexicans are inherently bad drivers
b) all bad Mexican drivers are illegal immigrants
c) they are illegal immigrants with driver's licenses that Grey Davis handed to them off the street
d) Mexicans are inherently bad drivers. (Like, somehow, bad driving is in the DNA)

A and D would be the most important ones. The problem with granting illegal immigrants (Mexican or otherwise) drivers licenses has nothing to do with your belief that they are bad drivers.

Rather, it's a legal issue that allows *illegal* immigrants a form of legality. Being illegally in the country means you should get no rights or privileges in the country since you're not supposed to be here. Giving them drivers licenses says, "well, actually you are".

Instead, Davis should be promoting some legislation that makes it easier for these immigrants to attain permanent resident status. Unfortunately, after 9/11, BCIS has been acting even more stupid and bureaucratic than before and the possibility of this happening is slim to none. Frankly, the reality is that though demand may be there for immigrant labour to fill niches in the job market, immigration makes it difficult for them to attain status in this country where they could do it. Yet most of our society depends on someone else being on the lower rung.

Basically, yangbahn your hateful rhetoric against Mexicans and their driving skills really does nothing but take the focus of this thread away from the issue at hand, which is the message behind Davis' actions.

And HH, that was a highly insightful post about why Davis may have signed the legislation. I really hadn't thought about that issue before.

[kitty]

After reading the back-posts in this thread... I had no idea that there was so much backlash against the Hispanic population in Cali. Is it really a big problem? Is it statistically true that most Mexicans in Cali are there illegally or is it a general preconception? (genuinely curious...)

Also, yangbahn, from what the article says, it looks like it would be easier for illegal immigrants to obtain a drivers license, which would ensure that they would have to test for them right? Wouldn't this actually decrease instances of poor driving?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Frankly, the reality is that though demand may be there for immigrant labour to fill niches in the job market, immigration makes it difficult for them to attain status in this country where they could do it. Yet most of our society depends on someone else being on the lower rung.
The primary demand for illegal immigrant labor is in agriculture, which, if you noticed the recent debacle in Cancun, is a heavily protected sector subsidized to the tune of tens of billions of dollars, much to the consternation of starving farmers in Africa who make conditions in rural Mexico look like paradise. If US agribusiness consortiums get so many of our tax dollars already, why do they need or deserve cheap criminal labor in addition? Eliminate the subsidies, let go out of business the bastards like Tyson Foods who imported illegals in company buses, and you'd find rather less demand for illegal labor.

As for gardening, housekeeping, etc.? Well upper middle class professional Americans who get their lawns trimmed for them, their houses swept for them, their pianos moved for them, etc. could well afford to pay a few extra dollars an hour to non-criminal immigrants or even native-born unemployed Americans in order to get this kind of work done.

After reading the back-posts in this thread... I had no idea that there was so much backlash against the Hispanic population in Cali.
People are sick of it because we're billions of dollars in debt and the budget growth has largely been fueled by the immigration of people (even the legal Hispanics, never mind the illegals who don't pay income/payroll taxes at all) who pay less in taxes than they take up in social services for themselves or their family members (recall that, given the current interpretation to 14th amendment, any illegal's kids born here will be citizens). Also our lieutenant governor steadfastly refuses to disavow his affiliation and membership in high ranks of the Mexican-American equivalent to the KKK or white nationalist paramilitaries, the "Por La Raza todo, fuera de La Raza nada" Movimiento Estudantil Chicano de Aztlan whose charter clearly states that it seeks the overthrow of the authority of the government of the US in the American Southwest.

[kitty]

I just find it interesting that this rhetoric is on a board of Asian Americans .... Back in the 19-teens, Chinese Americans were getting this same kind of negative treatment and scapegoating in California.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I just find it interesting that this rhetoric is on a board of Asian Americans .... Back in the 19-teens, Chinese Americans were getting this same kind of negative treatment and scapegoating in California.
What, so because we are descended of immigrants, and because some people of the same race as us violated immigration laws back in the 1900s, we should automatically feel solidarity with anyone who violates immigration laws?

[kitty]

I guess yes. Chinese Americans were in the position that Hispanic immigrants (legal or illegal) are in now. What are we accomplishing by subjecting them to the same kind of hatred that our forefathers experienced?

I didn't say run up to the next Hispanic you see and give them a cookie and cheque, but I feel kind of weird about espousing racist BS against them if we ourselves are trying to fight against discrimination against us.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

I guess yes. Chinese Americans were in the position that Hispanic immigrants (legal or illegal) are in now. What are we accomplishing by subjecting them to the same kind of hatred that our forefathers experienced? I didn't say run up to the next Hispanic you see and give them a cookie and cheque, but I feel kind of weird about espousing racist BS against them if we ourselves are trying to fight against discrimination against us.
I don't see where is the racism in requesting that people of all races, including our own race (http://forums.yellowworld.org/showthread.php?t=9563), enter the country in accordance with our democratically-established laws. Nor do I see that there is hatred in suggesting that the US should admit immigrants with skills and an education who would be able to contribute to the country and earn enough to support themselves and pay enough taxes to cover the costs of the services we provide to them. Nor do I believe that it is BS to castigate organizations like MeCha which go far beyond being mere college ethnic clubs, but actually positively advocate racism against non-Hispanics.

However, I do find it racist for someone to suggest that, because my national origin is the same as that of some criminals who broke our immigration laws, that I should feel obliged to go easy on everyone who breaks our immigration laws. This is like telling a black person who just got mugged, "How can you, a black person, be outraged about being mugged, when there's so many black muggers out there?"

I am not saying and never have I said that all Hispanics are illegal immigrants. But I am saying that the illegals who are here should be thrown out of our country and prevented from returning. I am not saying that and never have I said that all Hispanics are a drain on the economy and the budget (on average, as studies have shown, they are; however, this means nothing more than to say some are a drain, and some are a benefit). But I am saying that rather than letting in anyone from Mexico who can swim or run fast enough, that we should make them apply through normal channels to become immigrants, so that we can select those ones who would be a benefit to the country.

[kitty]

I don't have a problem with cracking down on illegal immigrants. Check out my first post in this thread. I do feel like it's strange for there to be statements like "They drive like maniacs, don't pay auto insurance and usually are involved in hit and run incidents." Y'know, stuff that just sounds really discriminatory against Hispanics.

[yangbahn50]

Also, yangbahn, from what the article says, it looks like it would be easier for illegal immigrants to obtain a drivers license, which would ensure that they would have to test for them right? Wouldn't this actually decrease instances of poor driving?

Maam, if you're hispanic, I didn't mean to diss your ethnic background.

However, I whenver I drive on the freeways or local roads in Los Angeles, I see Mexicans swerving in and out of lanes, which makes driving hazardous.

And many of these Mexicans are either green carders (which I don't care about...as long as they're documented) or illegal amigos.
The ones who aren't US citizens, or don't have green cards ought to not step in a car and step the gas pedal.

Now you say that having illgal mexican immigrants take road test will ensure safety right? WRONG!
Road tests are joke acts. Trust me,..people obey the signs, speed limit etc while doing a road test. Duh...because you want to get a drivers license (California ones..which will probably be available in ceral boxes).
Nope. I've seen people get their license and drive like maniacs.

You didn't read my earlier posts. I ddidn't say that all illegal mexican immigrants drive bad. No..that's not true. But the majority do, because of cultural differences. I haven't been to all parts of Mexico, but while I was near Mexico City, folks there drive like half-brained Orangutangs.

And plus, if Grey "duffus" Davis wants to administer d-license to illegal mexican immigranst, why not offer d-license to illegal european, chinese, korean, nigerian...etc...imigrants?

The one most basic reason why I oppose this bill is due to security reasons. Many other states are taking cautious steps to safeguard their ID's. California is the only "clown" in the house who's giving out D-license to any illegal from Mexico. Heck, middle easterners look hispanic,...could live in Mexico...then slowly inch they way into the US.
Ah hah..then what happens? Another terrorist attack?

[yangbahn50]

[quote]People are sick of it because we're billions of dollars in debt and the budget growth has largely been fueled by the immigration of people (even the legal Hispanics, never mind the illegals who don't pay income/payroll taxes at all) who pay less in taxes than they take up in social services for themselves or their family members (recall that, given the current interpretation to 14th amendment, any illegal's kids born here will be citizens). Also our lieutenant governor steadfastly refuses to disavow his affiliation and membership in high ranks of the Mexican-American equivalent to the KKK or white nationalist paramilitaries, the "Por La Raza todo, fuera de La Raza nada" Movimiento Estudantil Chicano de Aztlan whose charter clearly states that it seeks the overthrow of the authority of the government of the US in the American Southwest.[/quote/

(*Pats Alibaba on back*)

Thank you bro. I was about to say something about Cruz "Crusty" Bustamante...about his involvement in MEcha. Despite all the naysaying of the hispanics of the non-racist objective of that organization, I disagree. I know about the anti-white and anti-non-hispanic agenda that Mecha promotes.

That "Por la raza...blah blah" statement really shocked the sh*t out of me.

And yes, I do believe this bill granting d-license to illegal immigrants are part of their "Reconquista" agenda....to take back the Southwest of the US. Look at the Southwest..Arizona, N Mexico...Texas...PLENTY of Mexicans living there. Despite Arizona, N Mex. and Texas, California is the only "clown" state adjacent to MExico who "kisses" up to Mexico and it's government. Do you see Arizona, N Mexico and Texas kissing up to Mexico? Not that I know of (except when Bush "tries" to speak spanish to get hispanic voters to vote for his lousy a$$).

[ren28]

I think it's a bad idea to give them licenses for the reasons AB mentioned and also because I had to go through all the proper channels in order to get a license so they should too.

[frcegrl]

thoughts that ran thru my mind as i read five pages of repetitive information:

1) funny how in other communities, asians are stereotyped as the "bad" drivers. so we think mexicans can't drive, someone else thinks asians can't drive and asians think chinese (u can plug in whoever you want) can't drive worth shit. where do we end up except for the fact that minorities are at each other's throats while the puppeteers (i.e davis, big corps etc) sit back and watch?
2) i think its wrong that this would benefit mexican illegal immigrants only. what about everyone else? again, it's an opportunity to exploit one group for selfish results.
3) i'm so fucking sick of minorities damn pouncing on each other for whatever reason. i always thought that ppl who have been discriminated against would understand firsthand what it means to be singled out and stereotyped. guess i was wrong or naive. should our quest to be heard come at the cost of someone else's? i just get really pissed off when it's us against them. even amongst the different asian communities. what the fuck?

[kitty]

3) i'm so fucking sick of minorities damn pouncing on each other for whatever reason. i always thought that ppl who have been discriminated against would understand firsthand what it means to be singled out and stereotyped. guess i was wrong or naive. should our quest to be heard come at the cost of someone else's? i just get really pissed off when it's us against them. even amongst the different asian communities. what the fuck?

I totally agree. But I think it's only a few people on this thread who feel that way about Mexican illegal immigrants...

[angel nympho]

I don't even understand why this topic is an issue for debate. For real, I absolutely 100% cannot understand the reasoning behind affording people who are here illegally certain priveledges that even legal citizens can't always have. I would think that common sense would tell someone that they should probably do something more than turn the other cheek to the fact that people are in our country illegally instead of handing out freebies.

[angel nympho]

thoughts that ran thru my mind as i read five pages of repetitive information:

1) funny how in other communities, asians are stereotyped as the "bad" drivers. so we think mexicans can't drive, someone else thinks asians can't drive and asians think chinese (u can plug in whoever you want) can't drive worth shit. where do we end up except for the fact that minorities are at each other's throats while the puppeteers (i.e davis, big corps etc) sit back and watch?
2) i think its wrong that this would benefit mexican illegal immigrants only. what about everyone else? again, it's an opportunity to exploit one group for selfish results.
3) i'm so fucking sick of minorities damn pouncing on each other for whatever reason. i always thought that ppl who have been discriminated against would understand firsthand what it means to be singled out and stereotyped. guess i was wrong or naive. should our quest to be heard come at the cost of someone else's? i just get really pissed off when it's us against them. even amongst the different asian communities. what the fuck?

In this case, I don't think it's anybody versus anybody. This isn't a fight. I mean, it's a moral issue. I just think giving illegal immigrants drivers licences is the equivalent of condoning behavior that is supposed to be legal and will only end up worsening the entire situation. It's not about race for me. It's about the law.

[kimpossible]

In this case, I don't think it's anybody versus anybody. This isn't a fight. I mean, it's a moral issue. I just think giving illegal immigrants drivers licences is the equivalent of condoning behavior that is supposed to be legal and will only end up worsening the entire situation. It's not about race for me. It's about the law.

She's got a point.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Well, the easiest way to shut up someone who opposes letting people remain in-country who committed a crime the moment they stepped over the border, is to claim that they're racist. That's hardly news or even an original ad-hominem attack.

[frcegrl]

I don't even understand why this topic is an issue for debate. For real, I absolutely 100% cannot understand the reasoning behind affording people who are here illegally certain priveledges that even legal citizens can't always have. I would think that common sense would tell someone that they should probably do something more than turn the other cheek to the fact that people are in our country illegally instead of handing out freebies.


I don’t necessarily see given them a license a “privilege” but more as trying to place responsibility onto these illegal immigrants. I mean, they’re gonna drive no matter what so i don’t think that NOT have a license will stop them. it’s like tracking them (driving record wise) as much as possible just like how citizens of this country are, via our motor vehicle reports. But if this isn’t an issue for debate, why are you so against it?
I’m against “handing out freebies” to anyone who doesn’t “deserve” it. but some form of ID may be a good idea.

*oohhh this is fun, angel..* :poking:

[frcegrl]

In this case, I don't think it's anybody versus anybody. This isn't a fight. I mean, it's a moral issue. I just think giving illegal immigrants drivers licences is the equivalent of condoning behavior that is supposed to be legal and will only end up worsening the entire situation. It's not about race for me. It's about the law.

hmmm...my thoughts didn't really relate to each other. one kinda led to the next. you're right. the DL issue is not us versus them. that was kind of a tangent.

[yangbahn50]

I don’t necessarily see given them a license a “privilege” but more as trying to place responsibility onto these illegal immigrants. I mean, they’re gonna drive no matter what so i don’t think that NOT have a license will stop them. it’s like tracking them (driving record wise) as much as possible just like how citizens of this country are, via our motor vehicle reports. But if this isn’t an issue for debate, why are you so against it?

frcegirl:

Not necessarily. yeah, a driver's license is a "priviledge" to drive.

So what you're saying is that the illegal Mexicans living in the US will drive anyways...even if they're not offered a driver's license in the US ...right?

Well, how about the other illegal immigrants living in the US from other countries...such as S. American nations, Asia, Europe? If these illegal immigrants are caught driving, they will face TOUGHER punishments and fines compared to the "priviledged" illegal Mexicans driving with a Cally driver's license.

This is why I think this ordeal is sort of related to nepotism.

It's the majority of the minorities living in California who will hold power.

[frcegrl]

frcegirl:

Not necessarily. yeah, a driver's license is a "priviledge" to drive.

So what you're saying is that the illegal Mexicans living in the US will drive anyways...even if they're not offered a driver's license in the US ...right?

Well, how about the other illegal immigrants living in the US from other countries...such as S. American nations, Asia, Europe? If these illegal immigrants are caught driving, they will face TOUGHER punishments and fines compared to the "priviledged" illegal Mexicans driving with a Cally driver's license.

This is why I think this ordeal is sort of related to nepotism.

It's the majority of the minorities living in California who will hold power.


i agree with you...that's why in my previous posts, i said that if this was to happen, mexican illegals should NOT be the only ones benefiting from this.

[deez nuts]

Driver's Licenses for Illegals?

no

[yangbahn50]

i agree with you...that's why in my previous posts, i said that if this was to happen, mexican illegals should NOT be the only ones benefiting from this.

Okee dokee =)

[Fireblade]

I think as of right now, CA Driver Licenses are not valid forms of identification in other states. Great. >_<

[beemer805]

oh so you don't care about having him pay for the damages done to your car?

OMG your a fucking racist you stupid bitch. You're so ignorant to think that your right. Well guess what? You're wrong. Granting a driver's licence to illegals will boost up the economy. You know why?? Because of course they will be buying cars. Insurance companies will benefit from more licence drivers getting insurance. Costs will go down. And after this post 9/11 era, security has been a great concer on this country. And you know how to fix that?? You identify everyone, legal or not. Thats why if the driver's licenses are given, Undocumented drivers will be identified and criminals could be track down and enhance national security because law enforcement could use DMV records to help find illegal immigrants accused of crimes. You idiot, so dont be so ignorant. Your an immigrant too you fucking chink. Why don't you go back to your own country??

[kitty]

no personal attacks, beemer805, specially not targeting the system admin...

Check out the community guidelines.
http://forums.yellowworld.org/announcement.php?f=24

[kimpossible]

Your an immigrant too you fucking chink. Why don't you go back to your own country??

Can't wait until someone hits some mod buttons.

[ChinaLama]

i was gonna edit beemer's post for inappropriate content but i'm gonna let it stand so everyone knows yw mods aren't "nazis." this is the bullshit we have to deal with.

[deez nuts]

OMG your a fucking racist you stupid bitch. You're so ignorant to think that your right. Well guess what? You're wrong. Granting a driver's licence to illegals will boost up the economy. You know why?? Because of course they will be buying cars. Insurance companies will benefit from more licence drivers getting insurance. Costs will go down. And after this post 9/11 era, security has been a great concer on this country. And you know how to fix that?? You identify everyone, legal or not. Thats why if the driver's licenses are given, Undocumented drivers will be identified and criminals could be track down and enhance national security because law enforcement could use DMV records to help find illegal immigrants accused of crimes. You idiot, so dont be so ignorant. Your an immigrant too you fucking chink. Why don't you go back to your own country??


yo hablo espanol?

[SunWuKong]

OMG your a fucking racist you stupid bitch. You're so ignorant to think that your right. Well guess what? You're wrong. Granting a driver's licence to illegals will boost up the economy. You know why?? Because of course they will be buying cars. Insurance companies will benefit from more licence drivers getting insurance. Costs will go down. And after this post 9/11 era, security has been a great concer on this country. And you know how to fix that?? You identify everyone, legal or not. Thats why if the driver's licenses are given, Undocumented drivers will be identified and criminals could be track down and enhance national security because law enforcement could use DMV records to help find illegal immigrants accused of crimes. You idiot, so dont be so ignorant. Your an immigrant too you fucking chink. Why don't you go back to your own country??


hey beaner805, if you'd bother to put some thought into reading my posts, you'd realise that i actually support giving licenses to illegals.

[yangbahn50]

Granting a driver's licence to illegals will boost up the economy. You know why?? Because of course they will be buying cars.

Yeah....smart logic jumping frijole. You probably mean those jalopy junkies, tuna can on lego wheels, sputtering smog out of the exhaust pipe further polluting the air in LA. I see a lot of them in E. LA area.

[deez nuts]

hey where's the more outspoken yw members like chairmanmah, dac etc etc. here you have a chicano calling someone a chink and you just gonna take it? come on now. channel that animosity.

[achtungbaby]

OMG your a fucking racist you stupid bitch. You're so ignorant to think that your right. Well guess what? You're wrong. Granting a driver's licence to illegals will boost up the economy. You know why?? Because of course they will be buying cars. Insurance companies will benefit from more licence drivers getting insurance. Costs will go down. And after this post 9/11 era, security has been a great concer on this country. And you know how to fix that?? You identify everyone, legal or not. Thats why if the driver's licenses are given, Undocumented drivers will be identified and criminals could be track down and enhance national security because law enforcement could use DMV records to help find illegal immigrants accused of crimes. You idiot, so dont be so ignorant. Your an immigrant too you fucking chink. Why don't you go back to your own country??I disagree. Mexicans crossing the border are illegals and should be apprehended immediately. Giving them driver's licenses only reinforces the idea that our state gives hand outs -- precisely the reason why they come here in the first place. Illegal immigrants on average put in about $1,400 per illegal, whereas they take out around $3,300 in social and human services costs.

Not only that, they're bad drivers.

[kimpossible]

I still have the same question... is this only applicable to Mexican nationals or is it any illegal immigrant? Sorry if someone has already answered this a couple of times but there's so many posts here I don't remember.

[achtungbaby]

I still have the same question... is this only applicable to Mexican nationals or is it any illegal immigrant? Sorry if someone has already answered this a couple of times but there's so many posts here I don't remember.Any illegal immigrant. Osama bin Laden, et al, included.

[achtungbaby]

Keep in mind, this was a bill approved by the Democrat-controlled legislature that Gray Davis actually vetoed not once, but twice, because it lacked adequate measures to prevent against fraud.

[deez nuts]

I disagree. Mexicans crossing the border are illegals and should be apprehended immediately. Giving them driver's licenses only reinforces the idea that our state gives hand outs -- precisely the reason why they come here in the first place. Illegal immigrants on average put in about $1,400 per illegal, whereas they take out around $3,300 in social and human services costs.

Not only that, they're bad drivers.

i did not know that

and not to mention the weird stuff they add on to their old beaten up hondas.

[yangbahn50]

I still have the same question... is this only applicable to Mexican nationals or is it any illegal immigrant? Sorry if someone has already answered this a couple of times but there's so many posts here I don't remember.

Hapa:

This bill allowing illegal immigrants to obtain California drivers license is ONLY for illegal MEXICAN immigrants.

So illegal Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Pakistanis, Germans...blah blah non-Mexican illegals do NOT get California Drivers license.

Look at other states bordering Mexico. They don't have retarded laws allowing illegal Mexicans to obtain drivers license...such as Texas, N Mexico and Arizona.

California is a different story. All about politics and doing things their "own" way. Even look at the retarded recall election. I bet other folks living in other states are laughing their asses off today.

[kimpossible]

:icon14:

Any illegal immigrant. Osama bin Laden, et al, included.


This bill allowing illegal immigrants to obtain California drivers license is ONLY for illegal MEXICAN immigrants.

[537]

yangbahn50 do you have any type of documentation iterating that the bill is only for Mexican illegal immigrants? The notion itself seems a bit absurd...

[achtungbaby]

yangbahn50 do you have any type of documentation iterating that the bill is only for Mexican illegal immigrants? The notion itself seems a bit absurd...SB 60, authored by Senator Cedillo, would allow individuals not possessing a social security number to apply for a driver's license. Since 1994, a SS # has been required for driver's license applicants. SB 60 would amend existing law to allow the DMV to select other forms of identification as "deemed appropriate by the department." These might include a tax payer's ID number.

The bill does not have specific provisions for undocumented Mexican immigrants.

[angel nympho]

I don’t necessarily see given them a license a “privilege” but more as trying to place responsibility onto these illegal immigrants. I mean, they’re gonna drive no matter what so i don’t think that NOT have a license will stop them. it’s like tracking them (driving record wise) as much as possible just like how citizens of this country are, via our motor vehicle reports. But if this isn’t an issue for debate, why are you so against it?
I’m against “handing out freebies” to anyone who doesn’t “deserve” it. but some form of ID may be a good idea.

*oohhh this is fun, angel..* :poking:

Saying that illegal immigrants are going to drive no matter what, so let's give them a license is sorta like saying there's always going to be murder, so let's make it legal. Okay, that is a very extreme example, but just because a law will inevitably be broken doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason for the law. Instead of tracking them with drivers licenses that some even legal citizens don't have, we should track them in a different way. Perhaps we should proposition the federal government to chill out a little on immigration laws so that those that are here illegally can become legal citizens and THEN go get a drivers license. I mean, it just seems backwards to do it in any other order.

The reason I'm against it is because the answer is so blatantly clear to me. I don't think this issue sholud be one for debate. It seems like common sense to me.

[angel nympho]

Recently I've gotten a little bit of insight about this situation that this thread has failed to give me. Somebody recently put it this way:

The question if illegal immigration is more a federal issue than a state issue. It's because of the US government that people who want to come into the states have such a hard time sometimes, not because of California. Although it's important to uphold the laws of the government, we need to face the reality that illegal immigrants are here and they're here to stay.. especially in California. And this is just California's way of dealing with the fact that the whole immigration process is a complete pain in the ass. Since the federal government's not taking any steps to help the situation any time soon, California is trying to handle the problem within the state.

Okay. While I see reason in that argument, my position still stands. Just because I'm not the type to be advocating the breaking of any laws (except the drug ones)... I'm more about advocating CHANGING them. So while I agree that California has a certain reality to face, maybe the drivers license thing isn't going about it in the right way.

[kasia]

Hapa:

This bill allowing illegal immigrants to obtain California drivers license is ONLY for illegal MEXICAN immigrants.

So illegal Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Pakistanis, Germans...blah blah non-Mexican illegals do NOT get California Drivers license.

what?? what are you talking about? are you making this up? the equal protection clause applies to california, too, you know.

[kasia]

I don’t necessarily see given them a license a “privilege” but more as trying to place responsibility onto these illegal immigrants. I mean, they’re gonna drive no matter what so i don’t think that NOT have a license will stop them. it’s like tracking them (driving record wise) as much as possible just like how citizens of this country are, via our motor vehicle reports. But if this isn’t an issue for debate, why are you so against it?
I’m against “handing out freebies” to anyone who doesn’t “deserve” it. but some form of ID may be a good idea.

*oohhh this is fun, angel..* :poking:

realistically - and i live amongst these illegal immigrants who drive like crazy mofos - the bill isn't going to encourage them to get insurance or to stop and exchange information when they get into accidents. how it is going to encourage responsibility is beyond me.

however, i'm for the policy for a different reason - just cause i see these ppl living here, working there asses off, and being treated like nobodies. giving them a license is really just a backdoor way of allowing them some form of identity - of being.

i think that those who support the policy should just tell it like it is. arguing that it encourages responsibilty and protects the rest of us is dishonest. but i guess, if it sells to some who buy it, whatever.

[yangbahn50]

what?? what are you talking about? are you making this up? the equal protection clause applies to california, too, you know.

No maam, I am NOT making this up (like duh). Duh, this bills is only intended to give illegal Mexican immigrants California Drivers license.

Yeah,..the reason? Because Gray "retard" Davis (whom I'm glad to have gotten his a$$ out of Sacramental) wanted more votes from the Latino population.

ANyhow...no matter how much people convince me,...I am AGAINST giving illegal Mexicans the priviledge to own a Cally Drivers License.

In no circumstance should they obtain one and drive freely throughout the US acting as if they own the southwest.

[kitty]

Recently I've gotten a little bit of insight about this situation that this thread has failed to give me. Somebody recently put it this way:

The question if illegal immigration is more a federal issue than a state issue. It's because of the US government that people who want to come into the states have such a hard time sometimes, not because of California. Although it's important to uphold the laws of the government, we need to face the reality that illegal immigrants are here and they're here to stay.. especially in California. And this is just California's way of dealing with the fact that the whole immigration process is a complete pain in the ass. Since the federal government's not taking any steps to help the situation any time soon, California is trying to handle the problem within the state.

Okay. While I see reason in that argument, my position still stands. Just because I'm not the type to be advocating the breaking of any laws (except the drug ones)... I'm more about advocating CHANGING them. So while I agree that California has a certain reality to face, maybe the drivers license thing isn't going about it in the right way.

I tried to make that point earlier, but it was so long ago, I'm not surprised no one picked up. I'm in the process of trying to deal with Immigration Services, and not being an illegal alien in the country... and I'm a Canadian. The U.S. is very closed-door to perspective immigrants, and they make it virtually impossible for someone, even someone like me who HAS all the paperwork necessary, to get the right visas to be in the country. Giving illegal immigrants the ability to get a driver's license is sort of like recognizing how difficult the process is -- it can take years to naturalize -- and allowing immigrants the day-to-day necessities to function, like adequate transportation to jobs or (my suggestion) some office to help undocumented illegals begin the process of becoming legal. Once you're a landed illegal, you have a high incentive to continue dodging the law for fear of deportation, if Davis really wanted to help out illegals, he could maybe start government programs to get these illegals consultation for their immigration papers w/out the threat of deporting them as soon as they are a recognized illegal alien... but of course this is more expensive than changing drivers' license policies.

[yangbahn50]

yangbahn50 do you have any type of documentation iterating that the bill is only for Mexican illegal immigrants? The notion itself seems a bit absurd...

Though it's not specific, you can assume Cedillo wanted to pass this bill for his Chicano buddies living illegally in California.

Although the bill could apply to any illegal immigrants, it's geared mainly towards the illegal Mexican immigrants....because there's a huge commodity of them living in Cally.

[kasia]

No maam, I am NOT making this up (like duh). Duh, this bills is only intended to give illegal Mexican immigrants California Drivers license.

Yeah,..the reason? Because Gray "retard" Davis (whom I'm glad to have gotten his a$$ out of Sacramental) wanted more votes from the Latino population.

ANyhow...no matter how much people convince me,...I am AGAINST giving illegal Mexicans the priviledge to own a Cally Drivers License.

In no circumstance should they obtain one and drive freely throughout the US acting as if they own the southwest.

i'm not trying to convince you of anything, but you're going to have to substantiate your argument.

you want to go to law school right? "like duh" won't cut it when you're arguing to a jury. neither will assumptions. back up your arguments. it's a good habit to form.

[yangbahn50]

kasia:

Please relax...no need to argue. I just thought that the bill allowing illegal immigrants had a preference for Mexican illegal immigrants only.

I don't know much about Cally lifestyle because I'm from the East Coast where the hispanics are mainly Puerto Ricans and Cubans (who of course..drive a lot nicer than Mexicans in Los Angeles).

But since there are many Mexican immigrants working in the California agricultural industry.....I suppse Cedillo, the guy who spearheaded this campaign....wanted many illegal Mexican immigrants to transport themselves to and from work.

The bad part is that security issues is blatant...esp after 9-11.

This is why I support Arnold Scharzenegger to rescind this bill (hope he will).

[kasia]

kasia:

Please relax...no need to argue. I just thought that the bill allowing illegal immigrants had a preference for Mexican illegal immigrants only.

I don't know much about Cally lifestyle because I'm from the East Coast where the hispanics are mainly Puerto Ricans and Cubans (who of course..drive a lot nicer than Mexicans in Los Angeles).

But since there are many Mexican immigrants working in the California agricultural industry.....I suppse Cedillo, the guy who spearheaded this campaign....wanted many illegal Mexican immigrants to transport themselves to and from work.

The bad part is that security issues is blatant...esp after 9-11.

This is why I support Arnold Scharzenegger to rescind this bill (hope he will).

that's fine. i just don't want yw members to be misinformed. you should state that it's your belief and not what the bill actually says.

[achtungbaby]

No maam, I am NOT making this up (like duh). Duh, this bills is only intended to give illegal Mexican immigrants California Drivers license.

Yeah,..the reason? Because Gray "retard" Davis (whom I'm glad to have gotten his a$$ out of Sacramental) wanted more votes from the Latino population.

ANyhow...no matter how much people convince me,...I am AGAINST giving illegal Mexicans the priviledge to own a Cally Drivers License.

In no circumstance should they obtain one and drive freely throughout the US acting as if they own the southwest.The bill was intended to give undocumented Mexican immigrants a driver's license. Just like the capital gains taxes that our President favors are intended to give rich white Americans a huge tax break. There are no specific provisions, of course, for either group in the legislation.

In regards to the license being a "security" alert: I was concerned about this issue myself, but unless I'm mistaken, this legislation merely amends existing law to allow the DMV to accept other forms of identification -- that the DMV sees fit to require. The bill got a lot of flack for allowing the use of birth certificates (since a dead person can still have a birth certificate) but that's in combination with other forms of ID.

[angel nympho]

realistically - and i live amongst these illegal immigrants who drive like crazy mofos - the bill isn't going to encourage them to get insurance or to stop and exchange information when they get into accidents. how it is going to encourage responsibility is beyond me.

however, i'm for the policy for a different reason - just cause i see these ppl living here, working there asses off, and being treated like nobodies. giving them a license is really just a backdoor way of allowing them some form of identity - of being.

i think that those who support the policy should just tell it like it is. arguing that it encourages responsibilty and protects the rest of us is dishonest. but i guess, if it sells to some who buy it, whatever.


I definately agree with what you're saying, that it would be good to give illegals a sense of identy... but at the same time, if they're undocumented illegal immigrants.... as harsh as it sounds, they ARE nobody. What I mean is they're invisible in that, until they are legal citizens, they really can't do anything around here to try and make a difference in society except by doing a bunch of work we don't want to do... which only encourages our treating them like nobodies. I see how this is a shitty situation for everybody, especially since we as Californians depend a lot on the work that they do... but you have to realize that they are here illegally. And be realistic... I don't know that giving them a drivers license is going to accomplish a whole lot for their sense of being. If that was just it, then why not just give them a California ID card from the DMV that doesn't license them to drive?

Maybe instead of giving them a card with their picture on it to do something for their identities, we should actually be reaching out TO them. Giving them something isn't close to the same as caring about their actual well-being.

I like kittygirl's way of thinking. I definately agree that it would be a whole lot more effective to provide illegal immigrants with a little bit of consultation regarding becoming legal citizens.

[yangbahn50]

The bill was intended to give undocumented Mexican immigrants a driver's license. Just like the capital gains taxes that our President favors are intended to give rich white Americans a huge tax break. There are no specific provisions, of course, for either group in the legislation.

Wait a sec. I'm now confused with what KAsia and Achtung has to say. This bill is for immigrants in general right?

I do think, like Actung, that this bill was intended for illegal Mexicans...because of course...the majority of illegal immigrants living in the state of California are Mexican nationals.