racist VBS material

[Rogmok]

So people who don't know.. VBS (vacation bible school) is program a lot of churches have for kids during the summer. they often use ciriculum that is bought from various christian publications.

I recently ran across this new material that is completely inappropriate, as it attempts to promote cultural awarenewss but instead enforces stereotypes. Check out the site.. I believe angryasianman also posted about this

http://www.lifeway.com/yourvbs/

[Tao]

i checked out the site, granted it is superficial in its attempt to promote cultural awareness, i don't think it is too big a deal. Hell just seeing a fat white kid holding chopsticks and pulling a ricksaw cracks me up.

don't worry man, this is their lame attempt to appeal to other white people, so who the fuck cares? The site doesn't have any negative stereotypes, just a cursory sampling of asian food and clothing, so I wouldn't make a big fuss about it

[SunWuKong]

yeah, i don't really see how that is racist.

[ChinaLama]

damn. richshaw rally?

[artsfartsyjanet]

ditto.

i checked out the site, granted it is superficial in its attempt to promote cultural awareness, i don't think it is too big a deal. Hell just seeing a fat white kid holding chopsticks and pulling a ricksaw cracks me up.

don't worry man, this is their lame attempt to appeal to other white people, so who the fuck cares? The site doesn't have any negative stereotypes, just a cursory sampling of asian food and clothing, so I wouldn't make a big fuss about it

[golden_buns]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

[Cipherous]

So people who don't know.. VBS (vacation bible school) is program a lot of churches have for kids during the summer. they often use ciriculum that is bought from various christian publications.

I recently ran across this new material that is completely inappropriate, as it attempts to promote cultural awarenewss but instead enforces stereotypes. Check out the site.. I believe angryasianman also posted about this

http://www.lifeway.com/yourvbs/


Angry asian man is too sensitive about everything.

If a white guy was squinting to avoid the sun, he'd say that dude was imitating an asian.

and he always goes "thats racist!"

[Rogmok]

i don't necessarily thinks its an over reaction. If you think about it, kids who learn from this material will form preconceptions on Asian stereotypes.. like media isn't doing enough of that already.. now it'll even be coming from the church.

[YuheiCarreau]

I think it's kind of telling that they are 'teaching' kids about Asian cultures without, y'know, any actual Asians doing the teaching. You'd think they could at least try to show some Asian christian kids on the site.

Plus, "racing to the son" is a really lame pun.

[SunWuKong]

i don't necessarily thinks its an over reaction. If you think about it, kids who learn from this material will form preconceptions on Asian stereotypes.. like media isn't doing enough of that already.. now it'll even be coming from the church.

i don't know. i mean if they go for 100% accuracy, then it would be like a real history lesson, and that's boring.

[achtungbaby]

As someone familiar with VBS-type curriculum, at first glance, I don't think the site is overtly negative towards Asians. VBS-type curriculum and materials regularly takes on a specific theme and just delves completely into it to keep kids interested. It would be nice, however, if they had some Asians there, but it just goes to show about the predominant constituency group of the Southern Baptist Convention.

I'd be interested in reading what AngryAsianMan had to say about this though...

[BeTheReds]

I think it is okay and actually there would have been MORE lashing out if they had used Asians.

I trust the intentions of the VBS people because going to church in the summer can't really be a bad thing, and if anything, christianity teaches people to be less racist.

As for Angry Asian Man, I've talked to him in e-mail and he is a reasonable guy, and not everything he talks about is absolutly serious.

edit: Actually after reading the stuff on the vbs page, It is kinda stupid and offensive. But my stance is still that going to church in summer for a week or so can't hurt children. My church would probably be intelligent enough to not use it.

[MellowDrama]

Angry asian man is too sensitive about everything.

If a white guy was squinting to avoid the sun, he'd say that dude was imitating an asian.

and he always goes "thats racist!"

Um... about 75% of the time the "that's racist" line is used in sarcasm. Trust me on this.

[ModernLogic]

Stop whining... Just because there was a gong and a rickshaw, it doesn't mean they're racist... it just means they're idiots.

You know what's racist? When Tokyo Governor, Ishihara calls Chinese people "genetic pollution." Now that's racist! But everytime I bring that up, I automatically get accused of being a Japan-hating racist.

[Rogmok]

I think it is okay and actually there would have been MORE lashing out if they had used Asians.

I trust the intentions of the VBS people because going to church in the summer can't really be a bad thing, and if anything, christianity teaches people to be less racist.

As for Angry Asian Man, I've talked to him in e-mail and he is a reasonable guy, and not everything he talks about is absolutly serious.

edit: Actually after reading the stuff on the vbs page, It is kinda stupid and offensive. But my stance is still that going to church in summer for a week or so can't hurt children. My church would probably be intelligent enough to not use it.

i dunno if this is true, but the pastor at my church mentioned that this material is being used by the second largest demonination for their VBS program.

[Ogumo]

I do not see so much of a problem let them do what they want.

[Ogumo]

Stop whining... Just because there was a gong and a rickshaw, it doesn't mean they're racist... it just means they're idiots.

You know what's racist? When Tokyo Governor, Ishihara calls Chinese people "genetic pollution." Now that's racist! But everytime I bring that up, I automatically get accused of being a Japan-hating racist.

It is clear you do not like japan. But Racist? I will give the benefit of the doubt this time. But yes Ishihara is a fool I agree with this. And so are japanese people that are like him. But this will probably be the last time I agree with anything that comes from you mouth.

[BeTheReds]

Hey Xiao Rong and Ogumo. Please stay on topic.

You can start a new thread about anti-Chinese politicians in Japan...

[kasia]

if it's supposed to be based in tokyo, why is the chick holding a chinese take-out box?

[BeTheReds]

if it's supposed to be based in tokyo, why is the chick holding a chinese take-out box?


I bet in some areas of the usa, "japanese" restaurants use those.

Anyway you're looking at it a little too much. Let's all boycott Christianity ala AF!

[kasia]

I bet in some areas of the usa, "japanese" restaurants use those.

Anyway you're looking at it a little too much. Let's all boycott Christianity ala AF!

hm. let's not forget. christianity as religion is not promoting the game. abercombie, on the other hand, promoted the shirts. if anything, wouldn't one just boycott vbs?

[BeTheReds]

Well, you don't have to pay for vbs. And honestly, I don't think sending your kids to church every day for a week is going to hurt them. I went to VBS when I was a kid, and it made christianity fun. Granted, I don't know enough about this theme, and I didn't even know that every church used the same theme. My church probably would not use it because its just too silly. But even if kids did use this, I don't think they are gonna come out any worse than before.

[Ogumo]

I went to a christian church one time. I found it boring. I went to a jewish temple another time and enjoyed.

[mrazntre]

christianity teaches people to be less racist.




the most racist people are from the "bible belt"

[BeTheReds]

the most racist people are from the "bible belt"

Arguably then, they are not really christians.

[mrazntre]

Arguably then, they are not really christians.

that's fine, but will they be so inclined to deny the usage of the offensive VBS material ?

[BeTheReds]

Probably not, but i seriously doubt that even using it will cause anyone to commit hate crimes while "Racing to the Son." Please, these kids are going to totally forget about that in a week.

[SunWuKong]

oh come now. the presentation may be inaccurate, but you can't really believe that they have nothing but the best intention. i mean, it's bible school. how much tamer can it get?

[mrazntre]

oh come now. the presentation may be inaccurate, but you can't really believe that they have nothing but the best intention. i mean, it's bible school. how much tamer can it get?

so is that what you're gonna say to all of those islamic fundamentalists if they happen to go along the same lines? in their POV (as extemists; as we call them) they are doing everything with the best intention in mind.

[SunWuKong]

so is that what you're gonna say to all of those islamic fundamentalists if they happen to go along the same lines? in their POV (as extemists; as we call them) they are doing everything with the best intention in mind.


i would have no idea. what exactly do islamic fundamentalists preach to their kids? that they should grow up and kill christians and Americans? i think they're hardly doing that in bible school here.

[mrazntre]

i would have no idea. what exactly do islamic fundamentalists preach to their kids? that they should grow up and kill christians and Americans? i think they're hardly doing that in bible school here.

it's all theory isn't it? that's what they are teaching. To answer your question, YES. I'm only saying this because I have friends who have told me this firsthand (i'm not being biased because the US is at war). It's not just kids, but it's what is being taught through their clergymen to the illiterate masses. What happens when you preach that the only way to get to "heaven" is by killing others not of your religious faith?

Perhaps this is not to the same degree of my example, however it IS the same theoretically. This however is not in terms of religion, rather it is a racial impregnation via the media of religion. This does not make it any different. Reinforcing racial stereotypes through religion is tremendously damaging because it teaches every follower of the religion that it is okay to be prejudiced, biased and racist REGARDLESS of what is printed in the bible. So if you're being taught in VBS that being a racist is okay, then what do you say to that? That it's okay to be a racist? IF it's okay to be a racist, what else will happen? you seem to believe that racism is simply localized within a person. what do you think will happen to you?

[SunWuKong]

So if you're being taught in VBS that being a racist is okay, then what do you say to that? That it's okay to be a racist? IF it's okay to be a racist, what else will happen? you seem to believe that racism is simply localized within a person. what do you think will happen to you?


but what i'm saying is, it's a far stretch from having a gong and "pearl diving" to saying that this material is teaching kids to be racist. i mean, how does it teach kids that Asians are inherently inferior because of their race?

[Faithless]

So people who don't know.. VBS (vacation bible school) is program a lot of churches have for kids during the summer. they often use ciriculum that is bought from various christian publications.

I recently ran across this new material that is completely inappropriate, as it attempts to promote cultural awarenewss but instead enforces stereotypes. Check out the site.. I believe angryasianman also posted about this

http://www.lifeway.com/yourvbs/

I guess it could get silly if the VBS leaders start the program with some fake Asian accent and shit like that. And then everyone doing the "Ah-So, Ah-So" jazz.

[etcj]

Certainly things can be both racist and idiotic. I don't really think that it was intentionally made to be offensive, but you can tell that there was little discussion about what multiculturalism is. Much of the materials and curricula are based on stereotypical ideas of what is considered "Japanese" or "Asian". Frankly, I'm sure many of these children in VBS will be quite shocked to find that traveling to these countries will revealed less of rickshaws and perhaps even an more Americanized-commercialized culture than in the Bible Belt.

Inappropriate would probably be the best word to describe this site. I don't think better representation of Asian faces will cure any of the problems, cuz you won't be seeing Asians running around with rickshaws nor chopsticks in their hands.

[Faithless]

Check out the audio clips. Real flavor of the Orient here:
http://www.lifeway.com/yourvbs/downloads_audio.asp :MrT_anim:

[djchuang]

----- Original Message -----
From: Soong-Chan Rah
Subject: Racially Offensive VBS Material

My apologies for the mass e-mail (and if this is a repeat e-mail), but I was completely floored by this blatantly racist curriculum that has been designed for Vacation Bible School. Click on the link (wait for the intro) to learn about Lifeways' "Rickshaw Rally" VBS.

link: www.lifeway.com/yourvbs

It's devastating and disturbing to know that there are children in many different churches across the US whose first exposure to Asian culture will be this stereotypical, racially offensive material.

Please feel free to cut and paste the sample e-mail to register your complaint (or write your own) to Lifeway. Please feel free to forward this
e-mail to others. Send your e-mails to:
Jerry Vogel (Director of VBS Curriculum) at
jerry.vogel@lifeway.com
Louis Hanks (Director of Publications) at
louis.hanks@lifeway.com

If you would like to call Lifeway to register your protest, their administrative office number is: (615) 251-2000.


To Lifeway Church Resources

I'm writing to officially protest the racially offensive VBS material published by Lifeway Church Resources.

Christians are called to stand against injustice and I am appalled at the racial injustice that is being perpetrated by Lifeway. The use of stereotypical music, images, and themes shows an insensitivity and blatant disregard for the unique range of culture found in the Asian community. To consider that this racist material may be the first exposure for many young children is a chilling and disturbing thought.

I respectfully ask that the "Rickshaw Rally" VBS curriculum be immediately pulled from Lifeway Resources.



Thanks for taking the time to read this e-mail

Soong-Chan


Rev. Soong-Chan Rah
Senior Pastor
Cambridge Community Fellowship Church
P.O. Box 390029
234 Franklin St.
Cambridge, MA 02139
(o)-617-354-3909
(f)-617-868-5223
srah@ccfconline.org
www.ccfconline.org

[BeTheReds]

Well, considering that they are not making any money off of it, I highly doubt any protest will have any effect on them. Furthermore, it would have to be their customer base... churches, filing protest for them to actually listen to any of the protest. If you really want to protest this, go speak to churches and have them lodge the protest.

[Faithless]

Did somebody mention that it has already been protested before?

http://www.geocities.com/racistrickshawrally/

[mrazntre]

but what i'm saying is, it's a far stretch from having a gong and "pearl diving" to saying that this material is teaching kids to be racist. i mean, how does it teach kids that Asians are inherently inferior because of their race?


what do you think imitating via comical means represents? what do you think that does to reinforce certain stereotypes regarding other races? remember, kids are clay... ready to be molded as seen fit. racist aren't born, they're taught.

[SunWuKong]

what do you think imitating via comical means represents?


... but i don't see that they're trying to make fun of Asian cultures at all...

[BeTheReds]

Taking my own advice, I've contacted my old church and am asking them to protest it! Activism AT WORK!!! And I don't even totally agree with what I am doing!!!! YELLOWWORLD HAS TAKEN ME OVER!!!

[deez nuts]

if you're attending vacation bible school, you got a couple of screws loose to begin with.

edit: praise be jesus.

[mrazntre]

... but i don't see that they're trying to make fun of Asian cultures at all...

yeah, they're not making fun of it, they're degrading it.

[BeTheReds]

if you're attending vacation bible school, you got a couple of screws loose to begin with.

edit: praise be jesus.


Or you could just be a kid.

I really don't think it is fair to attack the religious beliefs of people.

[BeTheReds]

yeah, they're not making fun of it, they're degrading it.

No, I wouldn't even say that. I'd say they are grossly misrepresenting it.

[ChinaLama]

well, i'd have to say, rickshaws ARE degrading. you think rickshaw pullers were doing it for the exercise?

[mrazntre]

"grossly misrepresenting it" is just a nice way of saying "degrading"

[Ogumo]

Taking my own advice, I've contacted my old church and am asking them to protest it! Activism AT WORK!!! And I don't even totally agree with what I am doing!!!! YELLOWWORLD HAS TAKEN ME OVER!!!

Soon you will be killing people the members dislike. Haha.

[Tao]

Soon you will be killing people the members dislike. Haha.

ummm...BTR was being sarcastic

[Ogumo]

ummm...BTR was being sarcastic

Haha. Yes yes i am aware. I was aswell.

[SunWuKong]

yeah, they're not making fun of it, they're degrading it.


sorry man. but i just don't see it.

and certainly i don't think their intention was to degrade. i see no slanty-eyed buck-toothed man with one of those cone-shaped hats talking with a thick accent.

i see a rickshaw. i see some of those Japanese fish kite things. i see some paper umbrellas. i see bamboo trees. i see bonzai branches. i see non-Asian kids dressed in "Asian" clothing. i'm not deliberately trying to be difficult or anything, but really i don't see any of that as degrading. it's misrepresentation, if anything. and there's not even any over-exaggeration of stereotypes. but hell, only the rickshaw is no longer a part of the culture anymore (but the fact is that it was a part of some Asian cultures). they've been replaced by the motorcycle. :p

[mrazntre]

yeah, and your dad taught you karate and kung fu huh ?

[mrazntre]

Isn't that a part of your culture? oh but wait, those have been replaced with handguns and semi-automatic rifles.

[Ogumo]

I agree with sunwukung. It is not degrading at all. We cannot let everything offend us.

[SunWuKong]

yeah, and your dad taught you karate and kung fu huh ?


no. but karate and kungfu originated from Asia. is it degrading to acknowledge that?

[mrazntre]

it is a stereotype, a racially motivated one at that. is that not true?

[SunWuKong]

it is a stereotype, a racially motivated one at that. is that not true?


did the site say or imply somewhere that most Asian people know kungfu or karate?

and stereotypes are not always degrading. some are just misinformation. for example, i don't find it degrading that Asian people are stereotyped as smart people.

[Faithless]

if you're attending vacation bible school, you got a couple of screws loose to begin with.

edit: praise be jesus.

Beats hangin' around a street corner or wasting time in front of the TV all day.

[mrazntre]

did the site say or imply somewhere that most Asian people know kungfu or karate?

and stereotypes are not always degrading. some are just misinformation. for example, i don't find it degrading that Asian people are stereotyped as smart people.

steretotypes create a sense or auroa amongst a certain group of people. You seem to believe that these kids live in some sort of bubble where the only exposure to ANYTHING is based on what is seen on that website. as ignorance is a tremendous part of society, it can also be conjectured that the little black kid in asian garb with the head band can be seen as some sort of martial artist. you can thank TMNT for that. oh wait, all of the little kids in VBS will think he's a TAIKO drummer, or a dragon dancer. What do you think?

And yes, stereotypes are always degrading. Why? Because people are judging others BEFORE they know anything about the other person. This type of typecasting, or widespread generalization should be seen as offensive because it is not you that they stereotype as being smart, it is a group of people. There are good and bad stereotypes, yet at the end, all of those stereotypes are nothing less than degrading. Those stereotypes presuppose your disposition in life, your beliefs, the way you act, and ultimately EVERYTHING that you as an individual stand for. Yes it is misinformation, but misinformation is the root of all evil.

Yeah okay, let's start with the "all asian people are smart" stereotype. What else is corollary with smartness? oh yah, hard working ethic. yeah, so who's ass is gonna be put on OT without pay when your company needs you? Oh yah, let's pick the Asian guy cuz Asian people are all smart and hard working. Fuck that. Does that make you feel special?

[mrazntre]

if you're attending vacation bible school, you got a couple of screws loose to begin with.

edit: praise be jesus.


save me jEEEbus.....! :boldred:

[SunWuKong]

And yes, stereotypes are always degrading. Why? Because people are judging others BEFORE they know anything about the other person. This type of typecasting, or widespread generalization should be seen as offensive because it is not you that they stereotype as being smart, it is a group of people. There are good and bad stereotypes, yet at the end, all of those stereotypes are nothing less than degrading. Those stereotypes presuppose your disposition in life, your beliefs, the way you act, and ultimately EVERYTHING that you as an individual stand for. Yes it is misinformation, but misinformation is the root of all evil.

ok, i agree with most of what you're saying here. but i guess i just don't see stereotypes and misinformation as bad as you do. i don't see it as degrading just for the fact that it's typecasting and widespread generalisation. many stereotypes make no statements concerning general superiority or inferiority. it's dissappointing that there are certain stereotypes of different people, but how harmful is it really that there is, for example, a stereotype of Asian people knowing martial arts? plenty of Asian kids that grew up in the suburbs had peers who thought they could do kungfu. are we to think that they're all scarred for life because of it? or is this particular case mostly harmless? how about that there are rickshaws in Asia? how harmful is that, really?

there are harmful stereotypes, however, like the stereotype that black people are criminals.


Yeah okay, let's start with the "all asian people are smart" stereotype. What else is corollary with smartness? oh yah, hard working ethic. yeah, so who's ass is gonna be put on OT without pay when your company needs you? Oh yah, let's pick the Asian guy cuz Asian people are all smart and hard working. Fuck that. Does that make you feel special?

come now. with that kind of reasoning, you can justify anything as good or bad. what else is corollary with smartness? how about competency?

or you can take "vegetables are good" and say, what does that amount to? people should eat more vegetables, and therefore they'd eat less meat. that would put butchers out of business. so it's bad to say that "vegetables are good".

[BeTheReds]

At the same time, I can see like an old knights of the round table theme and no one having problems with it, despite having cliche imagery. Granted it is totally different and no one will criticize anyone for being innacurate about midieval fantasy.

Anyway I think they should have just had more sense then to do what they did, but i don't see it as overly degrading.

[deez nuts]

i got a kick out of this.

At stops along the route, VBS racers (a.k.a. kids) will find that to obtain the real prize in this Rickshaw Rally, they will need to seek Jesus as Savior and Lord—and commit to follow Him throughout the course of their lives.

and what the hell is Rickshaw Rally? is that jeebus?

[Ogumo]

steretotypes create a sense or auroa amongst a certain group of people. You seem to believe that these kids live in some sort of bubble where the only exposure to ANYTHING is based on what is seen on that website. as ignorance is a tremendous part of society, it can also be conjectured that the little black kid in asian garb with the head band can be seen as some sort of martial artist. you can thank TMNT for that. oh wait, all of the little kids in VBS will think he's a TAIKO drummer, or a dragon dancer. What do you think?

And yes, stereotypes are always degrading. Why? Because people are judging others BEFORE they know anything about the other person. This type of typecasting, or widespread generalization should be seen as offensive because it is not you that they stereotype as being smart, it is a group of people. There are good and bad stereotypes, yet at the end, all of those stereotypes are nothing less than degrading. Those stereotypes presuppose your disposition in life, your beliefs, the way you act, and ultimately EVERYTHING that you as an individual stand for. Yes it is misinformation, but misinformation is the root of all evil.

Yeah okay, let's start with the "all asian people are smart" stereotype. What else is corollary with smartness? oh yah, hard working ethic. yeah, so who's ass is gonna be put on OT without pay when your company needs you? Oh yah, let's pick the Asian guy cuz Asian people are all smart and hard working. Fuck that. Does that make you feel special?


I think that this is going very far... If someone is wearing a martial arts gi what would you think about the person?? They are into martial arts. That is normal response. Now if you see a asian in regular clothes going up the street and your response is that he is into martial arts. That is the wrong response. It is alright to stereo type to a certain point. But when you go crazy with ridiculous stereotypes then that is the wrong way to go. About the asians being smart one. I would rather non asians think asians are smart more than them thinking asians are criminals. Everyone stereotypes people to a point. But it depend on how far you go with this. It is moderation. You cannot go to far or else you will get a ridiculous result.

[>:^|]

What this feels like to me is more like modern Orientalism than racism per se. Part of my objection would be cultural commodification. I also don't like all that gong crap and I don't like the music and I don't like the rickshaws and I don't like the mixing of cultural images, and I don't like the idea that this was somebody's idea of foreign and exotic. And I shudder to think how people might use and enact this theme--doing funny bows and making ching chong noises and playing "Chinaman."

This reminds me of the YMCA's "Indian Guides and Princesses" program that was recently discontinued. While the Y stated that it was originally intended to honor the First Nations people, the actualization of this program turned into a bunch of racist stereotypes. :glare:

[BeTheReds]

More activism at work. It turns out one of the people in my church actually is on the advisory board for lifeway, and she is forwarding my concern to their president. I'd think the president would be more receptive to me now.

[Ogumo]

What this feels like to me is more like modern Orientalism than racism per se. Part of my objection would be cultural commodification. I also don't like all that gong crap and I don't like the music and I don't like the rickshaws and I don't like the mixing of cultural images, and I don't like the idea that this was somebody's idea of foreign and exotic. And I shudder to think how people might use and enact this theme--doing funny bows and making ching chong noises and playing "Chinaman."

This reminds me of the YMCA's "Indian Guides and Princesses" program that was recently discontinued. While the Y stated that it was originally intended to honor the First Nations people, the actualization of this program turned into a bunch of racist stereotypes. :glare:

I admit the gong is ridiculous....but you are correct this thing can turn in a racist hell house. That is if the people in control allow it. But this will probably be shut down eventually from the reasons that happened in the indian thing.

[mrazntre]

ok, i agree with most of what you're saying here. but i guess i just don't see stereotypes and misinformation as bad as you do. i don't see it as degrading just for the fact that it's typecasting and widespread generalisation. many stereotypes make no statements concerning general superiority or inferiority. it's dissappointing that there are certain stereotypes of different people, but how harmful is it really that there is, for example, a stereotype of Asian people knowing martial arts? plenty of Asian kids that grew up in the suburbs had peers who thought they could do kungfu. are we to think that they're all scarred for life because of it? or is this particular case mostly harmless? how about that there are rickshaws in Asia? how harmful is that, really?

there are harmful stereotypes, however, like the stereotype that black people are criminals.




come now. with that kind of reasoning, you can justify anything as good or bad. what else is corollary with smartness? how about competency?

or you can take "vegetables are good" and say, what does that amount to? people should eat more vegetables, and therefore they'd eat less meat. that would put butchers out of business. so it's bad to say that "vegetables are good".

Stereotypes are all harmful, that's why it's called a stereotype.

Rickshaws.. yes there are rickshaws are abundant in Asia. So how do you see that as being bad? From my previous example, replace "karate/kung fu" with rickshaw. Is that now degrading ?

Vegetables, may I remind you, are not people. They do not have feelings, they do not have the ability to think nor reason.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Stereotypes are all harmful, that's why it's called a stereotype.
Huh? The word stereotype is a linguistic borrowing from the art of making metal fonts ("type-casting," yep, that's another one of those things that's supposed to be harmful all the time) or molds. Has nothing to do with being harmful.

What's your proof for this blanket statement that "stereotypes are all harmful" anyway? Stereotypes could be useful for information when you know absolutely nothing else about a person. In fact this is how most people use stereotypes. Information that may be wrong sometimes is better than the complete absence of information. And furthermore, studies have shown that most people would actually discard preconceptions formed based on stereotypes when they find out more information about an individual.

Rickshaws.. yes there are rickshaws are abundant in Asia. So how do you see that as being bad? From my previous example, replace "karate/kung fu" with rickshaw. Is that now degrading ?
So what, some people and areas of the world are poor, and people who provide transportation services don't got the money for cars, motorcycles, or horses.

Vegetables, may I remind you, are not people. They do not have feelings, they do not have the ability to think nor reason.
The point wasn't about the vegetables but about the butchers.

[SunWuKong]

tre, alright man. it's obvious that you feel very strongly about this. i don't think it's a big deal, so i'll just say that i disagree and leave it at that. :)

[mrazntre]

Huh? The word stereotype is a linguistic borrowing from the art of making metal fonts ("type-casting," yep, that's another one of those things that's supposed to be harmful all the time) or molds. Has nothing to do with being harmful.

What's your proof for this blanket statement that "stereotypes are all harmful" anyway? Stereotypes could be useful for information when you know absolutely nothing else about a person. In fact this is how most people use stereotypes. Information that may be wrong sometimes is better than the complete absence of information. And furthermore, studies have shown that most people would actually discard preconceptions formed based on stereotypes when they find out more information about an individual.


So what, some people and areas of the world are poor, and people who provide transportation services don't got the money for cars, motorcycles, or horses.


The point wasn't about the vegetables but about the butchers.

What does a word become once it has been typified to mean something although it varies from its original meaning? There is a negative connotation to the word "stereotype" because it is now synonomous with prejudice.

The use of stereotypes is degrading because it generalizes people. Not every person that will be exposed to this material will have the opportunity to become engrossed with the type of multicultural exposure that would lead them to discard those stereotypes. How many minority people do you see in most of the US? Other than the major cities and a sprinkling in podunk, you don't see minorities.

so yeah, all ali baba's are terrorists, but don't worry i won't think you're a terrorist once i meet you. just all the other ali babba's in the world. this excuse has been used before. look at slavery in america.

[BeTheReds]

the final result of my activism...


Dear Eugene,
I received your concerns related to LifeWay VBS for 2004. We always
welcome input from folks as we evaluate our materials and strive from
year
to year to make them the most fun experience possible for boys and
girls to
learn about Jesus and His love for them. Please feel free to
communicate
with us at any time.
Our theme for 2004 is "Far-out Far East Rickshaw Rally: Racing to
the
Son." Our theme was chosen by folks in the fall of 2002 when we
invited in
several participants to what we call a VBS Think Tank. We include
pastors,
ministers of education, directors of VBS, children's ministers, lay
leaders, users of LifeWay materials and non-users of LifeWay materials.
The group chose this theme about the Far East to help lift up the
colorful
and exciting cultures in this part of the world and to help boys and
girls
learn that no matter what country one is from, what language he speaks,
or
how he dresses, he needs to hear the precious gospel about Jesus. We
included in our plans of the material missionaries to Japan, native
Japanese, and a pastor in Japan whose children appear in our video.
We had two separate groups of LifeWay folks who traveled to and
visited Japan: a video crew with our editorial team and also a team
from
our marketing department along with the Director of the VBS Project.
Our
folks have attempted to be true to what was seen in their travels and
visit
to this beautiful part of the world.
Throughout the VBS materials we have tried to include pictures
and
references to other Asian cultures in addition to Japan. Since
children
are literal thinkers, they need exact pictures to help them understand
"The
Far East." I apologize if any of these sights and sounds appear to be
stereotypical. We simply wanted boys and girls to learn about the
people
in this part of the world about whom God cares very much.
n VBS, as well as all of our childhood resources, we always try
to
provide a balance of ethnicities so that boys and girls will learn to
appreciate all cultures. What can be seen on the website is very
limited
compared to the full line of VBS resources which are scheduled to be
released between October and December of this year. Our materials show
children of all ethnic backgrounds having fun learning about the Far
East.
Even though the total emphasis for VBS is the Far East, children
need
a specific place to help them understand concepts. We zeroed in on
Japan
for our video and used the fun approach of children riding in a
rickshaw
just like many tourists do who visit there. In addition to the
rickshaw,
children ride on the bullet train and explore some of the beauties of
this
region. We never intended to be negative about this form of
transportation
that was actually invented in Japan even though it has history in other
areas of the Far East.
Please forgive me for being so "wordy" but I did want to attempt
to
share with you our hearts and intents related to any of the issues that
you
shared. Please know that we are passionate about boys and girls around
the
world learning about God's plan for their lives and simply wanted to
use
the Far East thematic approach as a vehicle in which to travel to share
this good news. Please pray for us as we seek God's guidance in
meeting
this need for children.
Blessings,

Jerry Vogel
Director, Childhood Ministry Publishing
LifeWay Church Resources
615.251.5653
jerry.vogel@lifeway.com

"Visit www.lifeway.com for Christian lifestyle and daily living helps,
ministry tools, and an online catalog for purchasing a growing list of
LifeWay products!"

[amietron]

http://www.lifeway.com/yourvbs/images/home/rotate/rotate_1_2.jpg
she's not even holding her chopsticks correctly. you're not supposed to cross 'em. HAHAHAHA. cross 'em.

[nonamerasian]

I understand Vogel's response.

Do you guy's who initially disagreed with this?

[mrazntre]

i like how Vogel keeps saying the "FAR EAST"

[Ogumo]

Bethereds:

What is the christian population of japan now? It cannot have gone above 2%.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

What is the christian population of japan now? It cannot have gone above 2%.
http://www.cbcj.catholic.jp/jpn/data/ claims a total of 449,927 Catholics in Japan. (Weirdly enough, 50% more women than men. Recent converts have been something like 80% women.). As for the Protestants, they're too busy arguing between all their different sects to count themselves accurately :p , but most estimates place them from 1-1.5 million. So yeah, between 1-2% of population.

[Ogumo]

http://www.cbcj.catholic.jp/jpn/data/ claims a total of 449,927 Catholics in Japan. (Weirdly enough, 50% more women than men. Recent converts have been something like 80% women.). As for the Protestants, they're too busy arguing between all their different sects to count themselves accurately :p , but most estimates place them from 1-1.5 million. So yeah, between 1-2% of population.

Thank you.

[nonamerasian]

i like how Vogel keeps saying the "FAR EAST"

. . .Not to be confused with the Near East, or Mideast.

[mrazntre]

or the Further East

[YuheiCarreau]

http://www.cbcj.catholic.jp/jpn/data/ claims a total of 449,927 Catholics in Japan. (Weirdly enough, 50% more women than men. Recent converts have been something like 80% women.). As for the Protestants, they're too busy arguing between all their different sects to count themselves accurately :p , but most estimates place them from 1-1.5 million. So yeah, between 1-2% of population.

My family is part of that number. Today this girl in my class was telling me that because I'm Catholic, I'm really American, because all Japanese are "Shamans... Or, what is it? Shinto?" :dry:

[Ogumo]

My family is part of that number. Today this girl in my class was telling me that because I'm Catholic, I'm really American, because all Japanese are "Shamans... Or, what is it? Shinto?" :dry:

Hahaha. That is ridiculous. How did she get shaman confused with shinto???

[SunWuKong]

Hahaha. That is ridiculous. How did she get shaman confused with shinto???


look no further than the average high school world history book for reference.

[BeTheReds]

Bethereds:

What is the christian population of japan now? It cannot have gone above 2%.


I think it is somewhere around 1 million according to the last census. This doesn't include foreign residents.

[BeTheReds]

My reply to Mr. Vogel


-----
> Dear Eugene,
> I received your concerns related to LifeWay VBS for
> 2004. We always
> welcome input from folks as we evaluate our
> materials and strive from year
> to year to make them the most fun experience
> possible for boys and girls to
> learn about Jesus and His love for them. Please
> feel free to communicate
> with us at any time.

Thanks for agreeing to hear me out...


> Our theme for 2004 is "Far-out Far East
> Rickshaw Rally: Racing to the
> Son." Our theme was chosen by folks in the fall of
> 2002 when we invited in
> several participants to what we call a VBS Think
> Tank. We include pastors,
> ministers of education, directors of VBS, children's
> ministers, lay
> leaders, users of LifeWay materials and non-users of
> LifeWay materials.

I really hate to put it in these terms, but how many
of these people were Asian, and more specifically, how
many of them were Japanese? And how many have
actually lived in Japan in a non-artificial setting,
where they interact with Japanese people on a daily
basis?


> The group chose this theme about the Far East to
> help lift up the colorful
> and exciting cultures in this part of the world and
> to help boys and girls
> learn that no matter what country one is from, what
> language he speaks, or
> how he dresses, he needs to hear the precious gospel
> about Jesus. We

A noble sentiment, however I feel the need to inform
you that practically nobody wears those kinds of
clothes everyday. The curriculum misrepresents Japan
in my opinion. Baseball and Soccer are far more
popular than Karate is, and it is much more common to
find people wearing western clothes than the costumes
you have on your website. Furthermore, why was it
necesary to display people with Chinese take out boxes
and chopsticks? It just doesn't make sense. Your
target audience is children, and you are giving them a
gross misrepresentation of East Asia at a very young
an impressionable age.

> included in our plans of the material missionaries
> to Japan, native
> Japanese, and a pastor in Japan whose children
> appear in our video.

Well, it is alarming that these people do not
recognise the ramifications of such a horrible
misrepresentation of East Asia on such young minds.

> We had two separate groups of LifeWay folks
> who traveled to and
> visited Japan: a video crew with our editorial team
> and also a team from
> our marketing department along with the Director of
> the VBS Project. Our
> folks have attempted to be true to what was seen in
> their travels and visit
> to this beautiful part of the world.

They were sucessful in exotifying a real place where I
LIVE! Furthermore, this may possibly lead to the
students in VBS believing that Asians, including
Asian-Americans do these kinds of activities in daily
life. Both are distinctly untrue. Also it
contributes to the mentality that Asian people are
foreign and exotic. Asian-Americans are often assumed
to be foreigners at first glance, especially by people
who do not come in contact with them on a daily basis,
and we need to correct that assumption. This VBS
curriculum will not correct that assumption in any
way, but only justify it.



> Throughout the VBS materials we have tried to
> include pictures and
> references to other Asian cultures in addition to
> Japan. Since children
> are literal thinkers, they need exact pictures to
> help them understand "The
> Far East." I apologize if any of these sights and
> sounds appear to be
> stereotypical. We simply wanted boys and girls to
> learn about the people
> in this part of the world about whom God cares very
> much.

First, I'd like to inform you that "Far-East" is a
Eurocentric term. It likens to the term "Oriental",
and I am not trying to simply be PC, but these terms
need to be purged from American English vocabulary in
order to de-excoticise Asia.

Why is "Far East" Eurocentric? What is it far east
of? Even little league baseball has done away with
"Far East" on their jerseys in the Little League world
series. The correct term is Asia or more specifically
East-Asia.

Next, if you are going to present Japan, then present
Japan only. There is a common assumption that Asians
are a homogenous cultural group. Mixing stereotypical
aspects of Asian culture as you have only perpetuates
the assumption.


> n VBS, as well as all of our childhood
> resources, we always try to
> provide a balance of ethnicities so that boys and
> girls will learn to
> appreciate all cultures. What can be seen on the
> website is very limited
> compared to the full line of VBS resources which are
> scheduled to be
> released between October and December of this year.
> Our materials show
> children of all ethnic backgrounds having fun
> learning about the Far East.
> Even though the total emphasis for VBS is the
> Far East, children need
> a specific place to help them understand concepts.
> We zeroed in on Japan

Then why mix things like Chinese take out and fortune
cookies in there?

> for our video and used the fun approach of children
> riding in a rickshaw
> just like many tourists do who visit there. In

You mean, when they visit tourist traps?

> addition to the rickshaw,
> children ride on the bullet train and explore some
> of the beauties of this
> region. We never intended to be negative about this
> form of transportation
> that was actually invented in Japan even though it
> has history in other
> areas of the Far East.

Well, I am not criticizing your intent. However
featuring the rickshaw as the centerpiece of the
curriculum will leave the impression in children's
minds that Japanese people use rickshaws. No one here
does other than foreign tourists.

> Please forgive me for being so "wordy" but I
> did want to attempt to
> share with you our hearts and intents related to any
> of the issues that you
> shared. Please know that we are passionate about
> boys and girls around the
> world learning about God's plan for their lives and
> simply wanted to use
> the Far East thematic approach as a vehicle in which
> to travel to share
> this good news. Please pray for us as we seek God's
> guidance in meeting
> this need for children.
> Blessings,

I will pray that many churches have the sense to not
use this curriculum and that your company gets the
message that it was a bad idea. I mean no harm to you
or Lifeway when I say this, but despite your good
intentions a grevious wrong has been commited.

Blessings to you too.
Eugene Whong.

[>:^|]

BeTheReds ... great letters.

[djchuang]

I found this parody called Redneck Rally to be a kick!

http://www.markwang.com/vbs/

and for those of you who want to stay up-to-date on the latest developments with Rickshaw Rally, see http://www.geocities.com/reconsideringrickshawrally/

dj

[achtungbaby]

From the Associated Press. I'm always amazed at how early YW peeps pick up on things.

Bible school draws fire
By Karin Miller, Associated Press

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- It's meant to help children learn about their faith, but the Southern Baptists' curriculum for next year's summer Bible school is drawing fire from some church officials and Asian-Americans who say its images and title -- "Rickshaw Rally" -- promote stereotypes.

The teaching tool is built around a race through Japan, with children running through Tokyo streets, climbing Mount Fuji and diving for pearls.

But the curriculum's central image, the rickshaw, along with photos on its Web site featuring young people dressed in kimonos and eating out of takeout boxes with chopsticks have been called "grossly misguided and inappropriate" by critics.

At least one group of Southern Baptists in New England voted last month not to use the curriculum from the LifeWay Christian Resources publishing house in Nashville.

We just determined that it was insensitive to Asian culture, and we didn't feel we could stay sensitive to our culture and context in New England and promote this material," said Jim Wideman, executive director of the Boston-based regional convention, which includes 240 Southern Baptist churches in Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut and Rhode Island.

"We felt that this material, however unintentionally offensive, could prove to be a huge stumbling block for us as we attempted to reach and minister to Asian-Americans."

Wideman said the New England convention will use alternate material from LifeWay, the publishing arm of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Vacation Bible Schools vary from church to church, but they are typically three-hour, five-day courses in the summer for children in first through sixth grades.

More than 1 million children are expected to attend Vacation Bible Schools next summer in churches that belong to the SBC, the nation's largest Protestant denomination.

The main complaint about the "Far-Out Far East Rickshaw Rally -- Racing to the Son" material is the prominent image of the rickshaw, a two-wheeled passenger cart pulled by a person.

The Rev. Paul Kim of Berkland Baptist Church in Cambridge, Mass., and a trustee on the Southern Baptist Convention's international missions board, said the rickshaw is "an image of poverty in Asia," outlawed in many countries.

"We want to have children of future generations to have the right understanding of who Asians are," Kim said.

He wrote LifeWay President Jimmy Draper, a friend for three decades, and was disappointed at his response, which was that the materials were not meant to offend.

"But they do offend," Kim said.

full story (http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10671~1813589,00.html)

[teaz0r]

i went to sunday school because of justin ritthaler.
he was so dreamy.

[SunWuKong]

At least one group of Southern Baptists in New England voted last month not to use the curriculum from the LifeWay Christian Resources publishing house in Nashville.

i've lived in New England for a number of years. i didn't know there were Southern Baptists there.

[nonamerasian]

i've lived in New England for a number of years. i didn't know there were Southern Baptists there.

I thought Southern Baptists were almost everywhere in this country.

[>:^|]

I was more annoyed by Lifeway's response to criticism than I was by the actual program itself.

It's entirely one thing to offend unknowingly, and another thing to offend, to be informed of your offense, and to continue to insist on your privilege. Rob Phillips, LifeWay's corporate communications director, stated:

While a small number of people have questioned the use of symbols like rickshaws, umbrellas and kites, saying they are stereotypical of Asian culture, no one group speaks for all Asians.

And yet he feels that he has the authority to determine that this is not offensive?

The more I've seen of this program, the more offensive I find it. Some "highlights" include the following:

- the repeated use of the term "far east"
- a little chinky man wearing a conical hat grinning and pulling the rickshaw
- images of non-Asian children putting their hands together and bowing and doing karate moves
- the phrase "wax on, wax off" (Lifeway notes that it used authentic sources for its info about Japan--apparently Karate Kid is among them)
- people who pronounce "kimono" "kuh-moan-uh"

There's a site with information about the protest here:
http://www.geocities.com/reconsideringrickshawrally/
Contact information for Lifeway is linked there.

There's an article in Ethics Daily here:
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=3418

[>:^|]

By the way ... can anybody confirm that the rickshaw was invented by an American or European missionary in Japan?

edited to correct an omission

[SunWuKong]

I thought Southern Baptists were almost everywhere in this country.

oh i didn't know that. i thought they were only found in... the South.

[nonamerasian]

oh i didn't know that. i thought they were only found in... the South.

I know a Southern Baptist preacher from NY.

He doesn't have his own church so he travels from church to church as a guest preacher. He's been up and down the East Coast, but I'm not sure about the Mid-West and all that.

There are Southern Baptist churches out of the South, though.

I've gone to a few with him. Of those, many seem to have a congregation make up mainly of ex-Southerners and their families.

Inside you feel like you are in the backwoods of 'Bama or Carolina only to walk outside and be reminded that you are in NY.

[BeTheReds]

I watched the video on their website for the first time.

I stopped watching after the lady went to the bullet train and said "jama da" means see you later.

"jama da" means you're in my way

"Ja, mata" means see you later.

This is silly shit.

[>:^|]

*snort*

I can hear it now: Hey! You in da kuh-moan-uh! Jama da!

[Faithless]

Did someone already post the LifeWay response to the "racism" criticisms?

LifeWay responds (http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0%2C1703%2CA%253D155726%2526M%253D200348%2C00.html )
Q: How do you respond to charges that your VBS 2004 theme is racist?

A: The intent of VBS 2004 is to deliver strong Bible content in a way that’s fun for kids and respectful of other cultures. This year’s VBS theme, like others before it, invites American kids to experience the richness of another culture. And it’s designed to teach children that God loves people everywhere. If in any way we have appeared to be culturally insensitive, or if we have offended anyone, we are truly sorry and appreciate the graciousness of our critics who acknowledge it is unintentional.

Q: Why did you choose the Rickshaw Rally theme for VBS?

A: We developed this year’s theme through much prayer and careful research. During the 15-month process, we consulted experts in Japanese culture and language, and we traveled to Japan to research and film the curriculum. In addition, we worked with pastors, ministers of education, children’s ministers, VBS directors, lay leaders, and state and associational personnel to develop the theme.

Q: Whose idea was it to have a Rickshaw Rally theme?

A: This was the result of a 15-month process involving a group we call the VBS Think Tank. These are LifeWay employees and a diverse body of guests -- pastors, ministers of education, children’s ministers, lay leaders, and state and associational leaders.

Q: What is it specifically the critics don’t like?

A: Some of the illustrations - like rickshaws - fonts and music, which they believe to be stereotypical. We’ve listened carefully and have made some minor changes in our music and Web site as a result. Overall, we chose these features of Asian culture to invite American kids to experience the richness of another culture and to learn that God loves people everywhere.

Q: Didn’t you think rickshaws, kimonos, take-out boxes and chopsticks would be seen as stereotypical?

A: We saw them as important symbols to help literal-minded children have concrete illustrations to help their understanding. At the same time, our VBS videos show Japan as it is today, a center of commerce and a progressive leader in the world of business.

Q: Were Asians involved in developing these materials? If so, in what way?

A: Yes. We worked through the International Mission Board (IMB), which referred us to a media agency in Japan that was utilized to coordinate video shooting and site survey activity. In addition, the IMB helped us connect with a Japanese pastor and his family and a missionary family who live and serve in Japan. These people helped us ensure the accuracy of our materials. In addition, we consulted with others knowledgeable of Japanese language and culture.

Q: You’ve decided to go ahead with the Rickshaw Rally theme despite the charges of racism. What do you hope to accomplish?

A: Our prayer is that thousands of children, youth and adults will come to know Jesus as their Savior and Lord. We also pray that boys and girls will be more mission minded and understand that people of all cultures need to know about Jesus.

Q: Do you really think kids will learn more about other cultures through VBS themes like Rickshaw Rally?

A: Yes. This has been our experience from the past - such as last year’s Kingdom Caper theme set in England. We pray that boys and girls will see that all people groups have differences and similarities. Regardless of differences, we all have the same need to learn about Jesus.

Q: Your VBS materials are all completed, and pulling them now would be a huge financial blow to LifeWay. So it’s really all about money, isn’t it?

A: No. It’s about ministry, and about being steadfast in our conviction that this year’s VBS materials lift up another culture and illustrate the rich diversity of all people for whom Christ died.

Q: How much income does VBS bring LifeWay?

A: We do not disclose revenues for segments of our business for competitive reasons. VBS is an important product to us - but more importantly, it’s a valuable ministry tool that reaches more than 20,000 Southern Baptist churches and more than 1 million kids each year.

Q: How will the racist charges impact your plans for VBS next year?

A: As with any VBS, we will go through a review process with VBS practitioners and consultants, including Asian Americans, and we will use their input, along with this year's experience, to make any improvements necessary.

[Faithless]

I have three relatives who are Christian ministers in Japan that I bet would say that aint no way to teach religion.

[Faithless]

Q: Didn’t you think rickshaws, kimonos, take-out boxes and chopsticks would be seen as stereotypical?

A: We saw them as important symbols to help literal-minded children have concrete illustrations to help their understanding. At the same time, our VBS videos show Japan as it is today, a center of commerce and a progressive leader in the world of business.

I think that's another way of saying we picked the stereotypical images that would be easily recognized by young minds that are uneducated in Japan.

[Blue dice]

Q: Didn’t you think rickshaws, kimonos, take-out boxes and chopsticks would be seen as stereotypical?

A: We saw them as important symbols to help literal-minded children have concrete illustrations to help their understanding. At the same time, our VBS videos show Japan as it is today, a center of commerce and a progressive leader in the world of business.

I think that's another way of saying we picked the stereotypical images that would be easily recognized by young minds that are uneducated in Japan.

Their spin doctored reply made me laugh for a good 5 minutes. How the fuck do Kimonos, takeouts, and rickshaws reflect on modern day Japan? ANY moron who has at least watched a little bit of television about asia knows Japan is modernized. Also I thought takeouts were more of a Chinese-american run restaraunt thing?

Their justifications are about as lame as their original plans to stereotype asians.

[Faithless]

Aint that the truth.

Then there's this pastor's comments... (http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/03/11/43220711.shtml?Element_ID=43220711)
( Rev. Soong-Chan ) Rah, the Cambridge pastor, said the program was not well researched.

''If they were a sixth-grader who came to school with a report on Japan and used the symbols, the stereotypes, the caricatures that Lifeway is using, that person would fail,'' said Rah, a Korean. ''It is a vacation Bible school about Japan; yet, it uses Chinese take-out food boxes.''

I think this would go for any grade.

[mr. x]

yeah and i sure as hell do NOT need lil white children "forgiving" my chinese ass for pearl harbor

[Blue dice]

yeah and i sure as hell do NOT need lil white children "forgiving" my chinese ass for pearl harbor
Yeah I suppose they expect us to give a curt little chinaman bow and shuffle away with our ming ponytails swinging behind us. :rolleyes:

It's kind of amusing on one hand to see how far they can take ignorance and spin it. I don't even see the point of their program except to piss off a great deal of asian-americans who grew up with these nonsense caricatures. Christian my ass more like hypocritical southern baptist dumbfucks.

[Faithless]

You know, it is darn hard, finding any Christian forums talking about this. About the only one is Lifeway (http://forums.lifeway.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=522608036&f=9316038&m=3916038)

But it's all so tame.

tibbeeridge, Do you have the directions for the card board shoes? I think this would be fun for the kids to do.

Payless Shoe store has flip-flops that look like they have bamboo in them and they are very inexpensive. Right now is a great time to catch these on sale, with summer almost over! Also get oriental tradings catalog for great inexpensive Japanese decorations.

have church members get chop sticks when they eat out at oriental restaurants this year, you could use them to glue bible verses to, and then roll them up, to take home.

[>:^|]

It seems kind of funny that one of their defenses for the stereotyping is because children are "literal-minded." That strikes me as precisely why you need to be more careful and not feed them distorted imagery.

The more I look at this thing, the more it bugs me.

And what's the deal with people pressing their hands together and bowing throughout this video? And the grinning man wearing the cone-shaped hat pulling the rickshaw in the animations? Ugh.

[Blue dice]

have church members get chop sticks when they eat out at oriental restaurants this year, you could use them to glue bible verses to, and then roll them up, to take home.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Faithless]

have church members get chop sticks when they eat out at oriental restaurants this year, you could use them to glue bible verses to, and then roll them up, to take home.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

That is funny. Cheap-fucking-skates!

Go to 99 Ranch and buy some, you lazy things!

Hope they know that the plastic ones are generally not throw-aways.

[Faithless]

It seems kind of funny that one of their defenses for the stereotyping is because children are "literal-minded." That strikes me as precisely why you need to be more careful and not feed them distorted imagery.

The more I look at this thing, the more it bugs me.

And what's the deal with people pressing their hands together and bowing throughout this video? And the grinning man wearing the cone-shaped hat pulling the rickshaw in the animations? Ugh.

Beware of LifeWay VBS 2005 -- It's La Raza Rally :tongue:

Children will be encouraged to stereotype on the Tijuana, Mexico theme.

[Blue dice]

Beware of LifeWay VBS 2005 -- It's La Raza Rally :tongue:

Children will be encouraged to stereotype on the Tijuana, Mexico theme.
Replete with drunken mexicans wearing sombreros sleeping under cacti and little tortillas with bible verses written on them.

[>:^|]

Here's the response I got from Jimmy Draper:

Thanks so much for taking time to write of your concern about the 2004 VBS theme. We have carefully listened to every concern such as yours and have been in contact with virtually all of the Asian/American churches that have worked with us in the past. We have met with Asian/American groups across the country and there has been strong support for this material that has come from the Asian/American community.

It is obvious that we cannot please everyone and certainly we have learned a great deal from this experience. We believe that the end result for the churches who choose to use this material will be a clear presentation of the Gospel to the hundreds of thousands of young people who will once again learn respect for all people and the need of all people who know Jesus Christ. Although you cannot agree with us I ask that you pray for us as we pray for you.

In His love,
James T. Draper, Jr.

Hmmm ... do you think the use of Asian/American (as opposed to Asian American) is intentional?

[mr. x]

Here's the response I got from Jimmy Draper:

Thanks so much for taking time to write of your concern about the 2004 VBS theme. We have carefully listened to every concern such as yours and have been in contact with virtually all of the Asian/American churches that have worked with us in the past. We have met with Asian/American groups across the country and there has been strong support for this material that has come from the Asian/American community.

It is obvious that we cannot please everyone and certainly we have learned a great deal from this experience. We believe that the end result for the churches who choose to use this material will be a clear presentation of the Gospel to the hundreds of thousands of young people who will once again learn respect for all people and the need of all people who know Jesus Christ. Although you cannot agree with us I ask that you pray for us as we pray for you.

In His love,
James T. Draper, Jr.

Hmmm ... do you think the use of Asian/American (as opposed to Asian American) is intentional?


subconcious at least. i mean obviously thats how this whole bullshit started

anyway did they pretty much say they are gonna do it anyway?

[>:^|]

anyway did they pretty much say they are gonna do it anyway?

Yup.

I had written to Draper and mentioned that consulting Japanese in Japan is not the same as consulting Asians in the United States. LifeWay has also been asked to provide proof of the support from Asian Americans and has not yet done so.

[mr. x]

Yup.

I had written to Draper and mentioned that consulting Japanese in Japan is not the same as consulting Asians in the United States. LifeWay has also been asked to provide proof of the support from Asian Americans and has not yet done so.

and they mix chinese and japanese together! theres just NO excuse for that

[Faithless]

Hmmm ... do you think the use of Asian/American (as opposed to Asian American) is intentional?

It could a downplay of the hyphenated american thing.

[Sledge]

My stupid-ass church (that I still attend because I'm a closet atheist who's scared to come out) is probably going to use Rickshaw Rally next year. They think it's nice that Lifeway is targeting Asian non-Christians.

SLEDGE DESTROY.

[mr. x]

My stupid-ass church (that I still attend because I'm a closet atheist who's scared to come out) is probably going to use Rickshaw Rally next year. They think it's nice that Lifeway is targeting Asian non-Christians.

SLEDGE DESTROY.

dude...u have to speak up! seriously i say this cuz u unlike us here on the best coast have no access to such a podium. u have to represent!

[Sledge]

dude...u have to speak up! seriously i say this cuz u unlike us here on the best coast have no access to such a podium. u have to represent!

I know man, I totally will. GRARRR.

[>:^|]

They think it's nice that Lifeway is targeting Asian non-Christians.

Yeah, how nice that LifeWay is creating an image of us that we actively reject and which they control. So "uplifting another culture" and "striving for diversity" still means doing these things in the White way. :mad:


SLEDGE DESTROY.

Go dude go!

[Faithless]

My stupid-ass church (that I still attend because I'm a closet atheist who's scared to come out) is probably going to use Rickshaw Rally next year. They think it's nice that Lifeway is targeting Asian non-Christians.

SLEDGE DESTROY.

This church of yours can't be run by Asians, itself, then?

[>:^|]

http://www.fbc-litchfield.org/vbs.html

Rickshaw Rally
This year's theme will focus on China.

People always tell me of their relative ease
To differentiate Japanese from the Chinese
They both have slanty eyes
But they differ in size
These illustrations (http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/a_f/foster/lifemag.htm) should make it a breeze.

[Faithless]

It never ends. :rolleyes:

Vacation Bible School Wars (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/003/29.26.html)
When Soong-Chan Rah received an advertisement for a 2004 Vacation Bible School curriculum published by the nation's largest Protestant denomination, he thought it was a joke.

Then the pastor of the Cambridge [Mass.] Community Fellowship Church visited LifeWay Christian Resources' website.

After examining promotional materials for Far Out Far East Rickshaw Rally: Racing to the Son, he was outraged.

The materials for the VBS curriculum include what critics call "stereotypical 'Oriental' images of rickshaws, chopsticks, takeout boxes, kimonos, and karate uniforms."

"I was shocked, stunned that they would pass this off as Christian education," Rah said. Unsatisfied with LifeWay's response to his concerns, in December Rah set up a website to oppose the curriculum. The site says, "It's devastating and disturbing to know that there are children in many different churches across the U.S. whose first exposure to Asian culture will be this stereotypical, racially offensive material."

Rah, a Maryland-born man of Korean descent, grew up Southern Baptist and taught from LifeWay's materials as a collegian. But the Evangelical Covenant Church pastor believes Rickshaw Rally uses mocking and insensitive images.

He's not the only one concerned. His Web-based petition against the curriculum gathered approximately 1,100 signatures in its first month. The petition continues to gather signatories.

Rah said some petition supporters have suggested a LifeWay boycott and pickets of its retail stores.

But the Southern Baptist Convention agency isn't backing down. Rob Phillips, LifeWay's communications director, said some people have called Rickshaw Rally the best curriculum the agency has ever produced.

He cites testimonials from various natives of Asia and from the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which is often at odds with the SBC's conservative leadership.

"We believe our materials are biblically sound," Phillips said. "The feedback from various sources … has been overwhelmingly positive. We believe the right thing to do is look at it from a ministry point of view."

Phillips estimates that at least 20,000 churches will use the curriculum this summer.

LifeWay President Jimmy Draper rejects claims that the material is racially offensive.

"I am deeply offended by this, and am saddened by the way our critics have used this inflammatory term to attack us," he wrote in a statement on LifeWay's website.

Southern Baptist ethicist Ben Mitchell takes a middle view. It is unrealistic to expect LifeWay to withdraw the curriculum, he said, but LifeWay should apologize publicly for the sake of the SBC's reputation.

"For many people," said the Trinity International University professor, "it will either confirm their view of Southern Baptists as parochial and culturally naïve at best, or it will make them suspicious of our commitment to racial justice and ethnic sensitivity."

[Shinran]

Stop whining... Just because there was a gong and a rickshaw, it doesn't mean they're racist... it just means they're idiots.

You know what's racist? When Tokyo Governor, Ishihara calls Chinese people "genetic pollution." Now that's racist! But everytime I bring that up, I automatically get accused of being a Japan-hating racist.
Hell, I'm Japanese and I'm quite sickened by the amount of racism and xenophobia that the Japanese exibit

How about the damn heathen Indians (both American and South Asian), Jews, Muslims, Voodoo, Wiccan...

Let's do a whole theme! Gandhi, Chief Sitting Bull, a Rabbi, a Voodoo priestess, a Witch, and Mohammed being taught the Bible by a nice Christian Missionary!

I'll bring the dip.

[sageb1]

Stop whining... Just because there was a gong and a rickshaw, it doesn't mean they're racist... it just means they're idiots.

You know what's racist? When Tokyo Governor, Ishihara calls Chinese people "genetic pollution." Now that's racist! But everytime I bring that up, I automatically get accused of being a Japan-hating racist.
Xiao: you're not a Japan-hating racist! Shintaro Ishihara is a loud-mouthed politician who is projecting the prejudice polluting his clouded mind, apeing the nationalist line.

He is certainly a boat-rocker, and claims his words mean little, that he wants the Japanese people to stand up for themselves.

Dunno if this article has seen the light of day here, but it gives clues to Ishihara's nationalism...
http://metropolis.japantoday.com/biginjapanarchive349/307/biginjapaninc.htm

For example, his nationalist brother Yujiro: http://metropolis.japantoday.com/biginjapanarchive349/311/biginjapaninc.htm

Sigh... Maybe just this once, the Japanese Constitution is a good thing, since it separates militarism from nationalism.

My mom has no respect for Ishihara, but then she's blunt about most politicians: money grubbing cheats who'd sell your property and possessions during wartime.

As for myself, your words spurred me to investigate the Ishiharas, Xiao.

Shintaro's novel Seasons in the Sun combined with playboy Yujiro as actor led to the first treatment of disaffected youth in Japan. Throughout much of his career Yujiro was portrayed sort of like Marlon Brando with Elvis' singing ability. I find this characterization hilarious. I even find Shintaro to be like an eccentric uncle trying to inspire me to have some backbone.

IMHO Ishihara isn't my cup of tea. Boat rocking is one thing, but a lot of people with little training in critical thinking will view his "satirical" take on life to be endorsement for right-wing conservative thought. However, right-wing radicals might be inspired to racism.

A polluted mind can only see non-Japanese as though they are polluted. Could it be an academic mind becomes devoid of respect due to the negative karma of a gaijin soldier taking away a boy's right to stand up to the man? Hard to say, but so sad to contemplate.

Though I am Japanese by genetics, I feel that China has in some ways purified me through Buddhism (Ch'an or Zen) and Taoism.

Hell, I'm Japanese and I'm quite sickened by the amount of racism and xenophobia that the Japanese exibit

How about the damn heathen Indians (both American and South Asian), Jews, Muslims, Voodoo, Wiccan...

Let's do a whole theme! Gandhi, Chief Sitting Bull, a Rabbi, a Voodoo priestess, a Witch, and Mohammed being taught the Bible by a nice Christian Missionary!

I'll bring the dip.
Hear hear, Shinran!

The Buddha, the Yogi Vasistha, Mohammed and Jesus are wonderful inspiration for the spiritually deficient. A shame public education asks us to aspire for a higher moral ground often without academic study of these men of peace.

For the dance mix I'll bring the JPOP, Matthew Lien's songs, Ravi Shankar's Ragas, and even spiritually inspiring songs like the long version of the Great Compassion Mantra. :biggrin:

[>:^|]

Dawn Turner Trice of the Tribune wrote a column on "Rickshaw Rally."

full text at http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/chi-0405030096may03,1,2130471.column

An Asian-American reader from Evanston told me she was offended that hundreds of children will be introduced to her culture via a curriculum filled with stereotypes and outdated images of Asians. That includes the rickshaw, an outmoded means of transportation that for some is a symbol of classism and colonialist exploitation.

The Illinois Southern Baptist Association, a consortium of approximately 1,100 churches, some of which will be using the curriculum, told me that "Rickshaw Rally" was developed over 15 months with careful research that included trips to Japan. It stands by the curriculum.

* * *

So I don't understand the continued defense of a mascot, whether Chief Illiniwek or a rickshaw driver, that demeans a group for what amounts to selling or promoting a product.

Once Stepin Fetchit and men in blackface were considered by some to be valid and entertaining mascots of a type. That they are no longer is not political correctness, but an evolution in thinking.

[BigLew]

Unfortunately that "evolution in thinking" didn't include Asians.

[Seamus]

I haven't read this entire thread. But when I saw "VBS," my first thought was VisualBasic Script. And VBScript does suck, and it's evil and proprietary, so. . .

Yeah, I'm a dork.