How did the Vietnamese language get influenced by

[ChairmanMah]

You'd think that after speaking the language for centuries that they would have had all their pronounciations and alphabet in place.

And how could the French change around the whole language. If and when they did, when the French got kicked out, how come the Viets didn't revert back to their original version.

Did the French change the Viet Language so that they could communicate?

What is the real reason for this? :confused:

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Huh? What exactly are you asking?

The French didn't change the Vietnamese language, they just promulgated a new writing system based on the Roman alphabet. They taught it through the mission schools and in the Catholic church starting in the late 19th century. The Vietnamese also borrowed a few french words for stuff like Coffee.

Vietnam's writing system before French colonization was known as Chu Nom. It was a combination of Chinese characters and Vietnamese-created Chinese-style characters used to write indigeneous words (non-loanwords). You can learn more about it here:
http://www.nomfoundation.org/

Going back to the old system is a nice fantasy for promoting pan-East Asian cultural and scientific exchange, but it's unprecedented in the history of educational reform. Plenty of countries and groups have switched from using one alphabet to another to write their languages (e.g. Cyrillic vs. Roman in Czechslovakia, Arabic vs. Devangari in India). But in general those were in situations where both alphabets were used widely anyway.

Romanization of Vietnamese has been in place for longer than the oldest people alive in the country, and there isn't anything left in everyday life written in the old Chu Nom system, not even old signs on shops. Only inscriptions on historical monuments, and ancient books sitting in the national library gathering dust.

Switching back to Chu Nom would involve, at the very least, writing up all new textbooks so it could be taught in the schools to the next cohort of kids. Who's gonna do that? There's only 30 people in the whole world who can still read it nom (though it probably wouldn't be that hard for Vietnamese Chinese adults to learn the system and aid in this effort, but still ...). And once you switch the entire school system over to Chu Nom, you run into the situation that parents can no longer help kids with their homework cuz they can't even read the questions. And as those kids graduate and slowly start converting the society to Quoc Nom, they turn their elders illiterate.

Going "back" to the old system might have been possible if they had decided to do it right after the French pulled out in the 50s. But now it's too late. We had the same thing happen in Malaysia. After the British pulled out, there was some pressure to go back to writing Malay using the Arabic script, but due to the fact that everyone alive had been educated using the Roman alphabet to write Malay, it was decided it wasn't worth it.

Also Vietnam is historically very suspicious of Chinese influence, having been part of the Chinese empire for over a thousand years until they rebelled and broke away, so they're not likely to spontaneously choose to readopt a Chinese-based writing system.

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-ChairmanMah+Jul 19 2003, 11:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChairmanMah @ Jul 19 2003, 11:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'd think that after speaking the language for centuries that they would have had all their pronounciations and alphabet in place.

And how could the French change around the whole language. If and when they did, when the French got kicked out, how come the Viets didn't revert back to their original version.

Did the French change the Viet Language so that they could communicate?

What is the real reason for this? :confused: [/b][/quote]
they did have their pronounciations and writing system in place.&nbsp; they used Chinese characters and they had their own script called chu nom.&nbsp; i don't know why Vietnam didn't revert back to their old writing system when the French got kicked out.&nbsp; maybe the French-invented written system is just a lot easier to use and learn.

[ChairmanMah]

thanx for the replies guys. I never really knew how english characters got incorporated into eastern writing.

[supernova]

<!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+Jul 19 2003, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ Jul 19 2003, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ChairmanMah+Jul 19 2003, 11:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChairmanMah @ Jul 19 2003, 11:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'd think that after speaking the language for centuries that they would have had all their pronounciations and alphabet in place.

And how could the French change around the whole language. If and when they did, when the French got kicked out, how come the Viets didn't revert back to their original version.

Did the French change the Viet Language so that they could communicate?

What is the real reason for this? :confused: [/b][/quote]
they did have their pronounciations and writing system in place. they used Chinese characters and they had their own script called chu nom. i don't know why Vietnam didn't revert back to their old writing system when the French got kicked out. maybe the French-invented written system is just a lot easier to use and learn. [/b][/quote]
because the vietnamese communist leaders hadn't even graduate high school and this is the truth&nbsp; :D

[Ogumo]

I always thought that the language of vietnam had a very cool sound. But they have the same accents as the americans from the texas area.

[Chinese Tourist]

<!--QuoteBegin-ChairmanMah+Jul 19 2003, 10:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChairmanMah @ Jul 19 2003, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'd think that after speaking the language for centuries that they would have had all their pronounciations and alphabet in place.

And how could the French change around the whole language. If and when they did, when the French got kicked out, how come the Viets didn't revert back to their original version.

Did the French change the Viet Language so that they could communicate?

What is the real reason for this? :confused: [/b][/quote]
Vietnam's population is very young. They have had a devastating century. The old ways are obliterated. Perhaps they should go back, who knows. (I think they should :P ) but the people's memory must be short, and their knowledge of past things limited.

I read that before the French invasion the literacy rate was 95% in Vietnam. Clearly, that is extremely good. Now it is below 50%. I do not know if 95% is realistic, but it is possible.