your real last name

[kasia]

are any of you the grandchildren of a paper son?  if so, do you go by your real last name or "paper" last name?  any stories to share?

[tapestrybabe]

what exactly is a 'paper' last name in the first place??

[Emperor_Mike]

<!--QuoteBegin-tapestrybabe+Jul 17 2003, 02:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tapestrybabe @ Jul 17 2003, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what exactly is a 'paper' last name in the first place?? [/b][/quote]
I'm going to venture a guess that a paper last name is a last name you're "coerced" into adopting due to extenuating circumstances of some design.

...

Am I right? Or dead wrong? :huh:

[kasia]

The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, Geary Act of 1892, and subsequent acts of Congress prohibited the legal immigration of Chinese laborers into the United States. There were loopholes in these laws that allowed a very limited number immigrants. Congress thought that there were already too many Chinese in the United States in 1882, comprising .002 percent of the population (that's 2 out of every 100,000 persons -- do the math).

The Great Fire (a.k.a. Great Earthquake) of 1906 in San Francisco destroyed the Federal building housing all of the official records of the U.S. Government, including the immigration records. In other words, there were no records of what Chinese who were legally here (having immigrated prior to 1882) as a result of the Great Fire.

What does this have to do with anything? Congress did not want members of the predominantly male Chinese population to have carnal knowledge of white women (can you spell "M-I-S-C-E-G-E-N-A-T-I-O-N"? The state of California finally nullified its Anti-Miscegenation Law of 1906 prohibiting Chinese from marrying non-Chinese in 1948). The Chinese men who were in the United States prior to 1882 were permitted to return to China, marry, produce children, and bring their sons back to the United States. (There were restrictions on Chinese women immigrating to the United States; Congress may have feared the Chinese reproducing in large numbers.)

"Paper Sons" came to the United States bearing papers documenting them as sons of Chinese who had returned to China to marry and produce children. (See the NARA's page on "Paper Sons and Coaching Letters" for more on "Paper Sons".)

In other words, the "Paper Sons" were illegal aliens.

This is one of the reasons some of the old Chinese are very secretive about their personal history. They were afraid of getting caught as illegal aliens, and coming to this country illegally was shameful.

I personally know of one person who asked her father about certain facts regarding their immigration to this country, and who received a very sharp response, "People would shoot you for asking such questions in the old days!" Of course, this was said to her in Chinese. Her father did not shoot her; she stopped asking about those certain facts regarding their immigration to this country.



The "Paper Son" ruse was something people had to do get around the very restrictive immigration laws specifically written against the Chinese people wishing to immigrate to America

Source: Jue Family Website (http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:J4IapecaKgYJ:www.pacificnet.net/jue/docs/paperson.html+paper+sons&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

i'm a real 'lee', by the way.&nbsp; *salute*

[deez nuts]

my real surname is hoiberg.

my grandparents changed it to the current one we are using now to hide from hitler and his nazi regime.

[SunWuKong]

not a descendent of a "paper son", but my grandfather changed his name (not his surname) when he went to HK from mainland China.&nbsp; he was in HK illegally, like a lot of other people from mainland.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Back in the 60s, the Indonesian government "encouraged" Chinese people (i.e. refused to issue identity cards to those who didn't) stop using their Chinese names. Most of them took non-religious Indonesian-style names. Some took Western names (Usually Dutch or Portuguese. Sometimes English).

In Philippines and Malaysia, lots of early merchants localized their surnames too. I think it was all part of a tax dodge.

So for some reason, everyone on my mother's side has Spanish or Portuguese legal surnames.

[moschikat]

Hmm, in Thai - the longer number of syllables your last name is, the more "pure" your Chinese blood is.

Depending on what your last name is translated into Chinese, will tell you which family your descent is from.

*very complicated to translate back and forth and trace families yes i know*

:blink:

[YuheiCarreau]

<!--QuoteBegin-moschikat+Jul 18 2003, 03:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moschikat @ Jul 18 2003, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm, in Thai - the longer number of syllables your last name is, the more "pure" your Chinese blood is.

Depending on what your last name is translated into Chinese, will tell you which family your descent is from.

*very complicated to translate back and forth and trace families yes i know*

:blink: [/b][/quote]
How does that work, since Chinese people only have one-syllable surnames?

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-YuheiCarreau+Jul 18 2003, 03:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ Jul 18 2003, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moschikat+Jul 18 2003, 03:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moschikat @ Jul 18 2003, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm, in Thai - the longer number of syllables your last name is, the more "pure" your Chinese blood is.

Depending on what your last name is translated into Chinese, will tell you which family your descent is from.

*very complicated to translate back and forth and trace families yes i know*

:blink: [/b][/quote]
How does that work, since Chinese people only have one-syllable surnames? [/b][/quote]
i was going to ask that.&nbsp; maybe because those Thai surnames are not translated Chinese surnames, but have another meaning to them?&nbsp; i don't know.

[moschikat]

<!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+Jul 18 2003, 06:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ Jul 18 2003, 06:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-YuheiCarreau+Jul 18 2003, 03:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ Jul 18 2003, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moschikat+Jul 18 2003, 03:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moschikat @ Jul 18 2003, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm, in Thai - the longer number of syllables your last name is, the more "pure" your Chinese blood is.

Depending on what your last name is translated into Chinese, will tell you which family your descent is from.

*very complicated to translate back and forth and trace families yes i know*

:blink: [/b][/quote]
How does that work, since Chinese people only have one-syllable surnames? [/b][/quote]
i was going to ask that. maybe because those Thai surnames are not translated Chinese surnames, but have another meaning to them? i don't know. [/b][/quote]
I think they try to add more meaning to it?? Or something like that??

Ex : Tang --> Tingsabhat --> "good money flow"

Bae --> Asa (means horse) --> Asavanand&nbsp; --> "leader"

Chung --> Chongcharoen --> "prosperous/harmonious/etc "

etc etc etc.

:ph34r:

[Deadpool]

Thais have long ass elaborate names.
What if i was having sex with a thai girl and I wanted to yell her name out in the heat of passion?

"Oh, Sanikanamprom, SANIKANPROM SAIPHOOON!!!"

[moschikat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Deadpool+Jul 18 2003, 04:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 18 2003, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thais have long ass elaborate names.
What if i was having sex with a thai girl and I wanted to yell her name out in the heat of passion?

"Oh, Sanikanamprom, SANIKANPROM SAIPHOOON!!!" [/b][/quote]
AHAHAHAHA!&nbsp; :lol:

uhm, although there are elaborately long "paper" names - everybody has a one or two syllable nick name

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-Deadpool+Jul 18 2003, 08:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 18 2003, 08:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thais have long ass elaborate names.
What if i was having sex with a thai girl and I wanted to yell her name out in the heat of passion?

"Oh, Sanikanamprom, SANIKANPROM SAIPHOOON!!!" [/b][/quote]
all i'd need to learn to yell is "oh, jackie!" or "oh, pip!", or better yet - "oh jackie and pip!"

[Deadpool]

<!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+Jul 19 2003, 03:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ Jul 19 2003, 03:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
all i'd need to learn to yell is "oh, jackie!" or "oh, pip!", or better yet - "oh jackie and pip!" [/b][/quote]
*cough*

[kasia]

who mods this forum?&nbsp; stay on the topic please&nbsp; :D

rad, what's your real last name?&nbsp; now that there's little risk of being deported for being a paper son, i wonder why families don't just change back to their original last names.

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-kasia+Jul 19 2003, 09:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kasia @ Jul 19 2003, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> rad, what's your real last name? [/b][/quote]
my family has never changed its surname. my surname is <img src='http://cgibin.erols.com/mandarintools/cgi-bin/ugif/8B5A.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

in Cantonese it's pronounced tam. in Mandarin it's pronounced tan. we have roots from a village in Xinhui county in Guangdong province. it is on the west side of the Pearl River Delta. my grandparents left the village to go to Hong Kong when they were young.

[punkdrummer56]

<!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+Jul 21 2003, 10:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ Jul 21 2003, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> my family has never changed its surname. my surname is <img src='http://cgibin.erols.com/mandarintools/cgi-bin/ugif/8B5A.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
[/b][/quote]
hey swk this has been a really interesting thread to read. my surname is similar to yours (the left side character).

i wish i knew more about my name and the history of it. i don't even know anything about my grandparents, and i'm scared to ask i guess.

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-punkdrummer56+Jul 21 2003, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (punkdrummer56 @ Jul 21 2003, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+Jul 21 2003, 10:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ Jul 21 2003, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> my family has never changed its surname. my surname is <img src='http://cgibin.erols.com/mandarintools/cgi-bin/ugif/8B5A.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
[/b][/quote]
hey swk this has been a really interesting thread to read. my surname is similar to yours (the left side character).

i wish i knew more about my name and the history of it. i don't even know anything about my grandparents, and i'm scared to ask i guess. [/b][/quote]
scared to ask?&nbsp; why is that?

[mtso]

My ancestors changed their Chinese name to make it sound Filipino four generations ago. They took the given name, placed it in front of the surname, and added a "zon" at the end.

It isn't the family name anymore (we now have a Filipino family name, but my Dad's middle name is the modified Chinese name).

[BeTheReds]

<!--QuoteBegin-kasia+Jul 20 2003, 10:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kasia @ Jul 20 2003, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> who mods this forum? stay on the topic please :D

rad, what's your real last name? now that there's little risk of being deported for being a paper son, i wonder why families don't just change back to their original last names. [/b][/quote]
Too much work and too much to deal with.

I want to change my name from Whong to Hwang because people keep asking me if I am Chinese (Chinese people included). But if I do...

My diploma and my records from my university are all under Whong.

All of my passports since birth are under Whong.

My birth certificate is under Whong.

Credit cards, drivers liscences, you name it it says Whong.

So, I can either keep my name Whong and be easily found in the phonebook, or change to hwang, be anonymous in the phone book, and have to carry a name change card with me for the rest of my life.

Has anyone ever actually changed their name before? Do you actually have to carry that card with you?

[golden_buns]

<!--QuoteBegin-BeTheReds+Aug 3 2003, 02:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Aug 3 2003, 02:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Too much work and too much to deal with.

I want to change my name from Whong to Hwang because people keep asking me if I am Chinese (Chinese people included).&nbsp; But if I do...

My diploma and my records from my university are all under Whong.

All of my passports since birth are under Whong.

My birth certificate is under Whong.

Credit cards, drivers liscences, you name it it says Whong.

So, I can either keep my name Whong and be easily found in the phonebook, or change to hwang, be anonymous in the phone book, and have to carry a name change card with me for the rest of my life.&nbsp;

Has anyone ever actually changed their name before?&nbsp; Do you actually have to carry that card with you? [/b][/quote]
Mine is written Chung (same as Connie), I feel like getting it changed to Jung.
It's funny cuz the rest of my family got Jung on their passport and legal document.
People almost always assume that I'm chinese because of the last name

[BeTheReds]

<!--QuoteBegin-golden_buns+Aug 3 2003, 07:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (golden_buns @ Aug 3 2003, 07:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BeTheReds+Aug 3 2003, 02:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Aug 3 2003, 02:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Too much work and too much to deal with.

I want to change my name from Whong to Hwang because people keep asking me if I am Chinese (Chinese people included). But if I do...

My diploma and my records from my university are all under Whong.

All of my passports since birth are under Whong.

My birth certificate is under Whong.

Credit cards, drivers liscences, you name it it says Whong.

So, I can either keep my name Whong and be easily found in the phonebook, or change to hwang, be anonymous in the phone book, and have to carry a name change card with me for the rest of my life.

Has anyone ever actually changed their name before? Do you actually have to carry that card with you? [/b][/quote]
Mine is written Chung (same as Connie), I feel like getting it changed to Jung.
It's funny cuz the rest of my family got Jung on their passport and legal document.
People almost always assume that I'm chinese because of the last name [/b][/quote]
Dude, you're a Korean citizen, changing the romanization on your passport should not have any stigma for you.

But then again, all your records in the USA would not be under Jung.

Isn't the government suggested romanization Jeong anyway?

[golden_buns]

<!--QuoteBegin-BeTheReds+Aug 3 2003, 02:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BeTheReds @ Aug 3 2003, 02:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dude, you're a Korean citizen, changing the romanization on your passport should not have any stigma for you.

But then again, all your records in the USA would not be under Jung.

Isn't the government suggested romanization Jeong anyway? [/b][/quote]
Yeah, my douments in the US and Latin America would be the problem.
Jung, Jeong, Chung, Cheung.....I don't know what else the govt. suggests.

Anyways, my mom's last name got really fucked up cuz it's Lee (Yi in Korean) and it got spelled as Lhi

[BeTheReds]

<!--QuoteBegin-golden_buns+Aug 3 2003, 08:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (golden_buns @ Aug 3 2003, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Anyways, my mom's last name got really fucked up cuz it's Lee (Yi in Korean) and it got spelled as Lhi [/b][/quote]
OUCH! Who thought up that one?

[kasia]

*bump* for the new members.

[teaz0r]

in thailand, it's an honor to be granted a last name from the king.
if you're super good and the kind gives you a new last name, most
people would do it in a heartbeat. in modern days though, the king
just adds a title to your last name, the additional title is basically
where your family is from.

like, if your last name is hood.
and you're from loxley.

your official last name will be hood of loxley.

[Chester]

When my parents moved here, they used the Cantonese transliteration of our last name. It seems that it's relatively uncommon here, though the Mandarin transliteration is pretty common.

A couple days ago, while at Whole Foods, the cashier asked me how I pronounce my name. I told her, "Oh...a lot of people think it's [X], but we actually pronounce it 'Fleischmann.'"

[AngryABCGirl]

Not really relevant, but my mom's surname seems pretty rare, it's Pao, same character as the one for bread. I've yet to meet any other Chinese people with it. For awhile because of relationship issues and stuff with my father and I thought my parents were gonna split, I was planning to change my last time to my mother's because it was more unique and my grandfather has had no one to carry that name. But now that would have been totally shitty for my dad and my driver's license, college records, medical records, passport, etc all have my father's surname and would be a legal quagmire.

[kuilong]

My great-grandfather was a Lin, but his family was too poor to support him and so he was adopted by the Hsia (Xia; http://zhongwen.com/d/174/d76.htm) family, hence my last name now.

Does anyone have last names that were botched by immigration officials?

[hooligan]

yen and wu, i think they've always been our last names. i need to ask my parents though.

[BeTheReds]

黄

[SunWuKong]

譚！

[seanp]

范 !

[SunWuKong]

黄

how is that spelt in Hangul?

[SunWuKong]

范 !

is that Phan?

[seanp]

is that Phan?

yea.. viet last name

[tapestrybabe]

김

i THINK thats right...