stop the invasion!

[VV o n g B a]

aww, the poor guy can't stand some competition. boo hoo hoo. T_T

but some of the articles he has compiled on race are just downright disturbing.

link (http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/)

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Maybe he's sick of living in California where services to illegal immigrants have broken the budget and the average commute time is again setting new world records.

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 2 2003, 03:42 PM
Maybe he's sick of living in California where services to illegal immigrants have broken the budget and the average commute time is again setting new world records.
California wouldn't last a day without immigrants, both legal and nonlegal, it's the way of life that's possibly impossible to stop spreading to the rest of the nation.

We fucking need better ways to communte though, I think my car is gonna take over and become a part of my body soon.

[BeTheReds]

The time has come to build subways.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Jul 3 2003, 12:52 AM
California wouldn't last a day without immigrants, both legal and nonlegal, it's the way of life that's possibly impossible to stop spreading to the rest of the nation.
Gee, ya mean the rest of the nation can have multi-billion dollar budget crises and a bunch of immigrants who demand affirmative action, instate tuition, and free medical care as soon as they set foot on our soil?

Canada here I come! At least there they make a vague semblance of an effort to use immigration as part of their economic policy and select from the pool of immigrants, rather than just letting in whoever the hell cuz he happens to come from the geographic neighborhood ...

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jul 2 2003, 10:28 PM
The time has come to build subways.
Ay yah, I wish, you can't build subways in most of the LA because the soil is semtimentary rock and too unstable or something and also cause of plate movement underground makes it unfeasible. Probably explains why LA is so sprawled and why there are few tall buildings.

[jimbo]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Jul 3 2003, 06:34 AM
Ay yah, I wish, you can't build subways in most of the LA because the soil is semtimentary rock and too unstable or something and also cause of plate movement underground makes it unfeasible. Probably explains why LA is so sprawled and why there are few tall buildings.
Why not Trams and overground trains? Or godforbid give people more of an incentive to use public transport like here in London where we have to pay £5 just to drive across town.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by jimbo@Jul 3 2003, 02:53 AM
Why not Trams and overground trains? Or godforbid give people more of an incentive to use public transport like here in London where we have to pay £5 just to drive across town.
The free market knows it's unprofitable to provide cuz the population is so ridiculously spread out, and the government isn't willing to cut any present services to make the money to pay for it.

Of course, charging people to use the roads and saving the money to build a public transit system would be one alternative. But people in LA would never accept an $8 charge to use the roads unless there was an acceptable alternative already in place. Republicans would refuse it on the principle that giving the California government any additional source of revenue is a demonstratedly bad idea, and Democrats would complain that it discriminated against the poor.

Floating a bond issue to pay for it? Hahaha, this is California we're talking about, the state that literally robbed the banks a decade ago (paid workers in IOUs and legislatively demanded the banks pay face value cash for them; also known as a forced interest-free loan), no one in his right would lend money to us.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Jul 3 2003, 03:34 PM
Ay yah, I wish, you can't build subways in most of the LA because the soil is semtimentary rock and too unstable or something and also cause of plate movement underground makes it unfeasible. Probably explains why LA is so sprawled and why there are few tall buildings.
Yea, true, but Japan is on the other side of the ring of fire and we have subways over here and tons of plate movement.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 3 2003, 05:04 PM
The free market knows it's unprofitable to provide cuz the population is so ridiculously spread out, and the government isn't willing to cut any present services to make the money to pay for it.

How about if they build it using illegal mexican labor, pay them a fair wage, and give the workers citizenship. this way the money they are giving to the illegal mexicans for free in the form of social services can be used to build mass transit in LA with less need for social services because these illegals will have regular jobs and health insurance for the next 10 or 15 years, until the transit system is complete.

I'm a genius.

[maxdacat]

i had a read of the site and it basically seems like one long rant against illegal immigrants...sorry i mean undocumented workers. as well as the usual stuff about guns and patriotism thrown in....a lot of it is just clippings from the mainstream media.....is it racist to oppose illegal immigration? ignoring their contribution to the economy and focusing on the problems seems more like selective hearing

i've never been to california so i wouldn't know if the place is overrun with mexicans.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 3 2003, 02:33 AM
Canada here I come! At least there they make a vague semblance of an effort to use immigration as part of their economic policy and select from the pool of immigrants, rather than just letting in whoever the hell cuz he happens to come from the geographic neighborhood ...
on a side-note, we actually have a lot of illegal Canadian immigrants. it's just that they speak English and they're (mostly) white, and they probably wouldn't work for as little as Hispanic or Asian illegal immigrants, so nobody cares about illegal Canadian immigrants.

[Danny]

people like this are fucking sick in the head... this is the type of guy that wakes up one morning, shaves his head and starts running down mexicans.... cluster fuck

[AngryABCGirl]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 3 2003, 12:04 AM
Of course, charging people to use the roads and saving the money to build a public transit system would be one alternative.
Actually, there have been al ot of initiatives to build more freeways to connect traffic more smoothly, and expand the metro which actually is actually quite decent, but there's not really land around to do so and people have been continually refusing and blocking legislation to move their homes despite generous reimbursements while traffic and the problems associate with it continue. I think eventually they'll need to build more freeways in LA or construct some sort of mass transit that works because it's become really difficult to get anywhere anymore unless you want to drive at bizarre and inconvient times.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by AzNBuffGrL@Jul 4 2003, 02:55 AM
I think eventually they'll need to build more freeways in LA or construct some sort of mass transit that works because it's become really difficult to get anywhere anymore unless you want to drive at bizarre and inconvient times.
Y'all are gonna have one more obstacle, especially if the Valley ever gets its secession thing going seriously: inter-municipal and inter-county mass transportation agreements always get screwed and require intervention by the state government, independent mediators, etc. to get anywhere. Why do you expect the Bay Area has been waiting a decade for BART to extend itself a few miles further down to the airport?

[AliBabaIncorporated]

From The New Americans, p280 (National Academy of Sciences) (online page image (http://books.nap.edu/books/0309063566/html/280.html#pagetop)):
Combining the state and local public sectors [in California], native households pay an additional $1,178 per household in revenues above services received to support a net fiscal transfer to the average immigrant-headed household of $3,463 household (see table 6.3).
The following page points out that families from Latin America present the highest fiscal burden of all immigrant groups, receiving $4,977 more in government services than they pay in taxes. And we want more of them in the middle of billions of dollars of budget crisis?

[golden_buns]

it's good to have a big flow of migration. Someone's gonna have to pay for the retirement of those elders that were born in the 40's and 50's, and with the current population in the States that would be impossible. I'd love to see this guy's face if the govt wouldn't let those immigrants come and instead would raise the taxes to cover up for the baby boomers. I bet he'd shave his head and would start lynching anyone above his 50's

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Jul 4 2003, 10:28 PM
it's good to have a big flow of migration. Someone's gonna have to pay for the retirement of those elders that were born in the 40's and 50's, and with the current population in the States that would be impossible. I'd love to see this guy's face if the govt wouldn't let those immigrants come and instead would raise the taxes to cover up for the baby boomers. I bet he'd shave his head and would start lynching anyone above his 50's
Increased labor productivity through more inputs of capital will work just as well as more laborers to improve the total output of the economy and allow there to be more nonproductive freeloaders like kids, the elderly, prisoners, welfare cases, and certain classes of government employees.

(Or hell, maybe people could start relying on their families more, the way the entire damn human race got on before Bismarck sicced his idea of government pensions on everyone with the Prussian army to back up the tax collection required to support it.)

And I don't quite see how admitting immigrants who have repeatedly shown themselves to be a net fiscal drain is going to help prop up Social Security ... not letting them in would in fact allow us to lower taxes, the whole point of that nice big book the National Academy of Sciences wrote.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 4 2003, 11:08 PM
Increased labor productivity through more inputs of capital will work just as well as more laborers to improve the total output of the economy and allow
That's quite idealistic, but right now the economy isn't in shape for industries to start investing in capital, actually after the dot com crash and 9/11 they've been doing just the opposite

I think that instead of doing damage to the economy, most illegal immigrants are of help, especially with the economy being so sluggish. Those illegal immigrants that you say are draining social security also spend their money on US soil, and at this point consumer spending is important to revitalize the economy, the more the better. Also once they become legal in the US, they WILL be paying taxes.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Jul 5 2003, 02:41 AM
I think that instead of doing damage to the economy, most illegal immigrants are of help, especially with the economy being so sluggish. Those illegal immigrants that you say are draining social security also spend their money on US soil, and at this point consumer spending is important to revitalize the economy, the more the better. Also once they become legal in the US, they WILL be paying taxes.
Eh, that National Academy of Sciences book I keep pointing to? That $5000-odd net deficit they found is for legal immigrants-headed households.

Not to mention, for any real recovery, business-to-business spending is a lot more important than consumption, since consumption isn't really related to future growth. And business aren't gonna spend when they're being taxed into the ground, or, equally, when a government which forms such a huge part of the economy, like California's, starts chopping stuff off the budget in order to keep paying for the sacred cows of Medicare and education to immigrant-headed households and leaving every businessowner who didn't donate in fear of their contracts.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 4 2003, 11:55 PM
Not to mention, for any real recovery, business-to-business spending is a lot more important than consumption, since consumption isn't really related to future growth. And business aren't gonna spend when they're being taxed into the ground, or, equally, when a government which forms such a huge part of the economy, like California's, starts chopping stuff off the budget in order to keep paying for the sacred cows of Medicare and education to immigrant-headed households and leaving every businessowner who didn't donate in fear of their contracts.
Every cent that people spend counts for growth. Sure currently the expenditure for illegal immigrants is damaging, but in the long run, the money they spend and the taxes they'll pay will be beneficial for the country

[BeTheReds]

Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes other than sales tax.

[kasia]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 2 2003, 03:42 PM
Maybe he's sick of living in California where services to illegal immigrants have broken the budget and the average commute time is again setting new world records.
wha...? i thought prop 187 passed.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 9 2003, 03:13 AM
wha...? i thought prop 187 passed.
hah, you think the courts would let that be implemented? discriminatory! racist!

even if they had, it wouldn't have mattered all that much, cuz the US-born kids of tourists and illegal workers get citizenship (while the kids of diplomats don't ...), so the state is obligated to provide such social services to them anyway.

[amietron]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Jul 4 2003, 11:41 PM
Also once they become legal in the US, they WILL be paying taxes.
That is IF and WHEN. I'm sure a lot of them go by unnoticed.

[VV o n g B a]

did anyone read the articles on race? i found that this one (http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/race2.html) was pretty provocative. here's an excerpt:


Lynn and Vanhanen prove that the widespread though rarely stated assumption of economists and political scientists-that all peoples and nations have the same average IQ-is wildly wrong. Their evidence documents substantial national differences in average intelligence.

The highest average IQs are found among the Oriental countries of North East Asia (average IQ = 104), followed by the European nations (average IQ = 98), and the mainly White populations of North America and Australasia (average IQ = 98). Further behind are the countries of South and Southwest Asia, from the Middle East through Turkey to India and Malaysia (average IQ = 87), as are the countries of South East Asia and the Pacific Islands (average IQ = 86), and Latin America and the Caribbean (IQ = 85). Lowest are the countries of Africa (average IQ = 70).


if it's true (and i'm not saying it is b/c i don't have a clue on how they conducted the study) does that not strengthen the case for racism? or do u guys think that IQ tests themselves are flawed or overrated in importance?

[etcj]

Well the website/group is based in North Carolina, so you're up against some people who are in Jesse Helm's arena. The fact that they totally ignore the public health standpoint of immigrant (illegal or not) leaves their arguments quite flawed. The focus on economics and freeloading sentiments just shows that you may reading stuff from poor folks who just aren't getting the break they need. I would assume that rich people could care less, well unless it's cutting into their capital gains and all.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jul 8 2003, 10:53 PM
Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes other than sales tax.
but they do provide cheap labor for jobs that many average americans wouldn't take unless the wages were high, hey they're doing the jobs you don't want. Anyways, it's gonna be good in the long run once they or their kids become legal and start sharing the burden of high taxes thanks to the baby boomers and the infamous tax cuts done by Bush

[amietron]

They make great hustlers. Just pop that sucker out and we can stay.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Jul 9 2003, 10:15 PM
but they do provide cheap labor for jobs that many average americans wouldn't take unless the wages were high, hey they're doing the jobs you don't want. Anyways, it's gonna be good in the long run once they or their kids become legal and start sharing the burden of high taxes thanks to the baby boomers and the infamous tax cuts done by Bush
Well, even if you accept that the US needs unskilled immigration otherwise there will be bad economic consequences ... why do we want to import all our unskilled labor from Mexico? American immigration has traditionally been based on providing freedom to the politically oppressed. Plenty of countries (especially in central Asia and the Middle East, not to mention Vietnam, Myanmar, and rural China) are full of people both poorer and oppressed far more than the Mexicans, who live in a basically democratic system with not such bad human rights abuses for their level of income.

Surely people from those countries would be willing to come over here and do "jobs Americans won't do" for an opportunity to get out from under the oppressive thumb of their respective governments. Also their immigrants have shown themselves to be less of a burden on the tax system.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 9 2003, 10:49 PM
Well, even if you accept that the US needs unskilled immigration otherwise there will be bad economic consequences ... why do we want to import all our unskilled labor from Mexico? American immigration has traditionally been based on providing freedom to the politically oppressed. Plenty of countries (especially in central Asia and the Middle East, not to mention Vietnam, Myanmar, and rural China) are full of people both poorer and oppressed far more than the Mexicans, who live in a basically democratic system with not such bad human rights abuses for their level of income.

I guess it's cuz illegal immigrants would make it anyways, and that would be a problem

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Jul 10 2003, 03:27 AM
I guess it's cuz illegal immigrants would make it anyways, and that would be a problem
Then give local law enforcement the power to arrest them and deport them instead of requiring them to accept this BS matricula consular as valid ID. Building a giant wall would also work pretty well.

Stopping illegal immigration is not that hard. Plenty of middle income countries with budgets smaller than US states manage just fine. It's just that no one in power here wants to bother. For example, Malaysia has a perfectly good system of deporting the illegal immigrants they don't want:
1. once you find a guy who is in violation of the law, hold him (instead of sending him a "run" letter telling him you've found him, a la INS)
2. smack him on the ass with a rattan cane
3. put him on a slow boat for home and tell him he'll get worse the next time

[golden_buns]

but middle income countries don't compare in size with the US. Just Texas itself is a bit bigger than Colombia. Now imagine trying to cover the borders from Cali to Texas. The only way to stop it would be for Americans to come up with their own version of the Great of Wall in China

[amietron]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Jul 10 2003, 12:40 AM
The only way to stop it would be for Americans to come up with their own version of the Great of Wall in China
Hire the Mexicans to build it. They work for cheap, right? Problem solved.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by golden_buns@Jul 10 2003, 05:40 PM
but middle income countries don't compare in size with the US. Just Texas itself is a bit bigger than Colombia. Now imagine trying to cover the borders from Cali to Texas. The only way to stop it would be for Americans to come up with their own version of the Great of Wall in China
I think using our huge army to keep out illegals would be much more cost effective than a wall.

[kasia]

wow. in reading all of your posts, it's kinda easy to forget that we're talking about people here.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 11 2003, 11:54 AM
wow. in reading all of your posts, it's kinda easy to forget that we're talking about people here.
We are also talking about criminals. If you can convince the government to change the law so that these people are no longer illegals, then go for it. Until then, this lax attitude of letting criminals into the country without having any way to deal with them other than provide for their families and send their kids to school is only encouraging more criminals to come to America.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jul 10 2003, 04:40 PM
I think using our huge army to keep out illegals would be much more cost effective than a wall.
That'd be great, at least the Army would have something useful to do

[kasia]

what lax attitude?

i don't know what to say. some of these "criminals" are my neighbors. it's kinda hard to think of them as evil people when the only reason why they came to this country was for their children to be able to have a better education. it's kinda hard to label people as "criminals" when their only crime is entering a country, you know? male in se. male prohibita. legally blonde. remember?

and it's not like they have it easy. do you know that you can't do very much in this country without a social security number? do you know what kind of jobs they take? do you know how many jobs they have? do you know how they're treated by law enforcement? do you know that many of their women are abused wives who get whipped by their husbands daily and are not getting any help because of the fear of getting deported?

these are people. parents. children. families. so let's refer to them as that and not as "illegals", "aliens", or "criminals".

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 11 2003, 01:33 PM
what lax attitude?

i don't know what to say. some of these "criminals" are my neighbors. it's kinda hard to think of them as evil people when the only reason why they came to this country was for their children to be able to have a better education. it's kinda hard to label people as "criminals" when their only crime is entering a country, you know? male in se. male prohibita. legally blonde. remember?

and it's not like they have it easy. do you know that you can't do very much in this country without a social security number? do you know what kind of jobs they take? do you know how many jobs they have? do you know how they're treated by law enforcement? do you know that many of their women are abused wives who get whipped by their husbands daily and are not getting any help because of the fear of getting deported?

these are people.  parents.  children.  families.  so let's refer to them as that and not as "illegals", "aliens", or "criminals".
Entering the country illegaly is a crime, you can't deny that. I'm not here to argue the difficulties of their lifestyle or their reasons for coming to the US. Those are irrelevant. They don't even have the right to be in the country.

They don't have social security numbers because they are not citizens or legal residents of the USA.

It is irrelevant how the police treat them as long as there is no physycal abuse.
Jailing them for being criminals and deporting them is perfectly legal.


Children who have come because they have no choice in the matter are not criminals, because they were only following their parents. However, everyone else is a criminal and deportation is a perfectly legal way to deal with someone who enters the country illegally.
Once they enter the country legally then I have no objection to them being there.

[kasia]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jul 10 2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by kasia@Jul 11 2003, 01:33 PM
what lax attitude?

i don't know what to say. some of these "criminals" are my neighbors. it's kinda hard to think of them as evil people when the only reason why they came to this country was for their children to be able to have a better education. it's kinda hard to label people as "criminals" when their only crime is entering a country, you know? male in se. male prohibita. legally blonde. remember?

and it's not like they have it easy. do you know that you can't do very much in this country without a social security number? do you know what kind of jobs they take? do you know how many jobs they have? do you know how they're treated by law enforcement? do you know that many of their women are abused wives who get whipped by their husbands daily and are not getting any help because of the fear of getting deported?

these are people. parents. children. families. so let's refer to them as that and not as "illegals", "aliens", or "criminals".
Entering the country illegaly is a crime, you can't deny that. I'm not here to argue the difficulties of their lifestyle or their reasons for coming to the US. Those are irrelevant. They don't even have the right to be in the country.

They don't have social security numbers because they are not citizens or legal residents of the USA.

It is irrelevant how the police treat them as long as there is no physycal abuse.
Jailing them for being criminals and deporting them is perfectly legal.


Children who have come because they have no choice in the matter are not criminals, because they were only following their parents. However, everyone else is a criminal and deportation is a perfectly legal way to deal with someone who enters the country illegally.
Once they enter the country legally then I have no objection to them being there.
so it's like a blind following of the law that you're advocating?

[BeTheReds]

Huh?

Whatever, if you want to throw open the gates and let every old tom dick and harry come into the country with no screening, and given automatic citizenship, then fight for that end.

Until the day where the law says they have a legal right to be here, they are criminals and you can't deny it.

It's an indesputible fact that tax money is wasted on the illegal immigrant population when it should be reserved only for the tax paying legal population of our country.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 10 2003, 11:33 PM
what lax attitude?

i don't know what to say. some of these "criminals" are my neighbors. it's kinda hard to think of them as evil people when the only reason why they came to this country was for their children to be able to have a better education. it's kinda hard to label people as "criminals" when their only crime is entering a country, you know?
Though it may be nice to be sentimental and try to paint them as "not criminals," there's a huge moral hazard in admitting that we're not willing to enforce our own laws.

Also, have you considered the effect on legal immigrants, the ones who actually waited in line to get into this country so they too can get a better education for their kids? Much of the public already feels overwhelmed by present levels of immigration. They're not particularly willing to let in more immigrants total. For every illegal immigrant not putting pressure on public services and on the public at large, we could in his place admit and welcome to our society one more H1-B to contribute to the tech economy. One more set of grandparents reunited with their grandkids and kids. One more refugee fleeing a government which is actively violating his human rights. etc.

How is it fair that there is an eighty year, yes EIGHT ZERO waiting list for family reunification visas from the Philippines while the police turn a blind eye to the millions of illegal entrants already present, even giving them amnesties? My grandfather, a US Navy veteran who served this country honorably and gained citizenship in WWII, tried to sponsor his sister to come to the US. She and he both died waiting in a decade in which the US government "regularized" hundreds of thousands of border sneaks who couldn't wait their damn turn.

And it is quite an enormous blind eye the government turns. You talk about the kind of jobs they "have" to take and whatnot ... they could very well take a job in their country of origin instead. Instead, California caved in and required businesses, etc., and even law enforcement officers, to accept the Mexican-embassy issued "matricula consular" as a valid form of ID, despite the fact that holding one is a virtual guarantee that you're an illegal immigrant, otherwise you'd have been able to apply for a California identification card.

In Japan, a foreigner without ID and foreigner's registration can get arrested and will spend the night in the drunk tank until they figure out whether he has the right to be in the country or not. If not, then it's not INS-style "put down a piddly little bond and come back in two weeks for your deportation hearing, pretty please?" You get held in jail until it's resolved, and then you find yourself on the plane back.

[kasia]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@Jul 10 2003, 10:00 PM
It's an indesputible fact that tax money is wasted on the illegal immigrant population when it should be reserved only for the tax paying legal population of our country.
it's disputed. read the other posts.

[kasia]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 10 2003, 10:06 PM
Instead, California caved in and required businesses, etc., and even law enforcement officers, to accept the Mexican-embassy issued "matricula consular" as a valid form of ID, despite the fact that holding one is a virtual guarantee that you're an illegal immigrant, otherwise you'd have been able to apply for a California identification card.
can this be verified? if it is a fact, why are so many people selling social security cards outside of my complex as we post? would seem much more convenient to just use thier Mexican-embassy card, no? i've never heard of that before.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 11 2003, 01:16 AM
can this be verified?  if it is a fact, why are so many people selling social security cards outside of my complex as we post?  would seem much more convenient to just use thier Mexican-embassy card, no?  i've never heard of that before.
Two separate issues. Matricula consular fills the void at traffic stops or a check on the street where police ask for ID. Basically, it keeps the guy from being taken in for further questioning cuz he doesn't have any ID, then it being revealed he's an illegal and run a possible risk of being deported or having to put up some cash bond to get out of jail before the deportation hearing. And furthermore, for those among the II population who don't feel like defrauding the US government any further, it's not illegal, like buying someone else's SS card is (and the MC is apparently quite easy to get: a Mexican birth certificate will do the trick. Think any terrorists or other assorted criminals who want to change their identities will have trouble forging one of those?)

In contrast, a social security card is the ultimate breeder document (next to, of course, a fake birth certificate). It can be used to open a bank account, get a job where the employer actually cares about making sure his new employee is in the country legal (i.e. most stuff above day labor), apply for a driver's licence, etc. Basically it lets you pretend to be legal at a whole lot more levels than the matricula consular. For those who have the money, it's a good investment. Most people can go without.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 11 2003, 03:13 PM
it's disputed.  read the other posts.
Which ones? All I see is people saying that illegal immigrants spend money so it contributes to the economy, and that they take jobs at slave wages that I don't want. How about if the rich assholes who make these jobs stop hiring illegals and pay decent living wages to working class Americans instead? That would be even better for the economy.

Taxes are spent on the population in hospitals, schools, some social services (tho this is changing) jails, legal fees. Not to mention the tax dollars spent on trying to find and deport these criminals. If there ever is an effective way to keep them out in the first place, it will save a lot of money. How about moving military bases in the middle of nowhere (the prairie states) and fortify our border with mexico. Soldiers which have little or no use will be instead be preventing these people from becoming criminals (or repeat criminals).

Until the law changes, there is no right for them to even be in the US.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by AliBabaIncorporated@Jul 10 2003, 12:37 AM
2. smack him on the ass with a rattan cane
3. put him on a slow boat for home and tell him he'll get worse the next time
:lol: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[AliBabaIncorporated]

<!--QuoteBegin-professor frink+Jul 25 2003, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (professor frink @ Jul 25 2003, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> something is bothering me about these posts.....oh wait, that's right - - we're all illegal immigrants! [/b][/quote]
Cute. the "We're all immigrant, so we can't argue against immigration." Kinda like telling a white not to argue against Jim Crow, or telling a man not to argue for giving women the vote.

Except that all of my ancestors entered the country in accordance with the laws of the time. And anyway our modern legal system doesn't believe in the barbaric concept of "inherited crime" whereby one's Mayflower ancestors arriving in the country illegally (except that the Indians didn't have laws forbidding immigration in the first place) would put the stigma down on you twenty generations later.

As for what ethnicity most IIs are ... it's hard to get accurate statistics, but good money's running on Mexican, seeing as they're right next door to us and haven't got a lot of opportunities back home. And for some reason, they're reluctant to respond to surveys ... now why is that ... oh yeah, cuz they're breaking the damn laws of the United States just by being here.

[BeTheReds]

<!--QuoteBegin-professor frink+Jul 26 2003, 05:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (professor frink @ Jul 26 2003, 05:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

something is bothering me about these posts.....oh wait, that's right - - we're all illegal immigrants! yay!
[/b][/quote]
How are we all illegal immigrants?

We are only illegal immigrants if we illegally enter the country or stay past the time limit on our visas after we have illegally entered the country.

Seeing as how most of us are American citizens, none of us in an illegal immigrant.

[amietron]

<!--QuoteBegin-professor frink+Jul 25 2003, 11:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (professor frink @ Jul 25 2003, 11:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aren't I? as a hapa, i am inherently so! [/b][/quote]
well, i dunno about you, but i've seen a fair number of un-cute hapas.