frowning on the gay pride parade...

[tapestrybabe]

yeah, its been gay pride week in nyc...
and i like to believe i'm an open minded person...
the flaming homosexuals, the drag queens...
the flamboyancy of it all... the dykes, queers...
i'm not offended by it...

i'm open to the whole community and lifestyle... but sometimes i cant help to be bothered with the whole gay pride parade and such... and yeah, i've even actually attended the gay pride parade before... so i know how it is first hand... and on one hand... i really dont mind it all... i view it as a whole celebration of the diversity within the community... ALTHO... on the other hand... sometimes i wish... the focus wasnt on such the extreme...

cuz in the end... when it comes to gay, lesbian and bisexual ppl... they're not always like that... but you know
they can just be seen as 'NORMAL' ppl-- they're mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers... ppl in whom you prolly would never suspect... cuz they just act normal... you know what i'm saying?! they dont act the extreme of what ppl see during gay pride week... and the parade... and sometimes yeah, i think events like these... enforces certain stereotypes... of how ppl view homosexuals... when in fact, thats only a small portion of the community... cuz there's a whole lot of them out there.... that act 'NORMAL' as any heterosexual... but they just dont get the same recognition... thats all...

so yeah, i'm not always too fond of the gay pride parade... and whats everyone elses take??

[Faithless]

They held the parade Sunday in San Francisco. It was built as a political parade. They honored Harvey Milk, etc., and made a 15 year old San Roman girl the grand marshall. The 15 year old has two mothers. She is a supposedly good voice.

I like the political tone. I like the timing, considering the recent Supreme Court ruling.

[sOKaLiBoY]

i'm koo with gay ppl and everything. i think they should have the same rights as heterosexual ppl do. however i don't see the need to have these parades. we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?

[Faithless]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 07:52 AM
i'm koo with gay ppl and everything. i think they should have the same rights as heterosexual ppl do. however i don't see the need to have these parades. we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?
I think the gay parades are somewhat apart of the "we're here, we're queer, get used to it" chant.

[cmar]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 07:52 AM
we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?
When straight people are beaten and murdered because of their straightness, when straight people are fired from their jobs or kicked out of their homes for being straight, when straight people are routinely mocked and ridiculed in the media, when straight teens begin to commit suicide at three times the rate of other teens, when republicans try to legislate second class citizenship for straight people...THEN maybe a straight pride parade will be needed.

[Emperor_Mike]

I don't like parades of any sort. Too noisy, too festive, and usually the reason for celebrating just isn't "parade-worthy." These things should be reserved for big events like a human landing on Mars, the celebration of the end of World War III, etc, etc. Not Gay Pride, Thanksgiving, or Christmas. :rolleyes:

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by cmar@Jun 30 2003, 09:21 AM
When straight people are beaten and murdered because of their straightness, when straight people are fired from their jobs or kicked out of their homes for being straight, when straight people are routinely mocked and ridiculed in the media, when straight teens begin to commit suicide at three times the rate of other teens, when republicans try to legislate second class citizenship for straight people...THEN maybe a straight pride parade will be needed.
this still doesn't justify the need for a gay parade

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by cmar@Jun 30 2003, 12:21 PM
When straight people are beaten and murdered because of their straightness, when straight people are fired from their jobs or kicked out of their homes for being straight, when straight people are routinely mocked and ridiculed in the media, when straight teens begin to commit suicide at three times the rate of other teens, when republicans try to legislate second class citizenship for straight people...THEN maybe a straight pride parade will be needed.
i agree.

but as far as popular media is concerned, while i still see that homosexuality is still mocked, i also see that it's over-sensationalised sometimes, just because homosexuality has to do with sex and hollywood loves anything that has to do with sex. gay people have better representation in popular media than asian people, in my opinion (not that those two are mutually exclusive, but you know what i mean). george michael comes out of the closet and somehow that helps him sell albums.

[Chester]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jun 30 2003, 01:54 PM
gay people have better representation in popular media than asian people, in my opinion
In some ways, I suppose they do, but I think it really depends on how you characterize "better."

george michael comes out of the closet and somehow that helps him sell albums.

I'm not really sure about that -- he hasn't been heard from in a while and the last time he was noteworthy was due more to the political nature of his video than the song in the video.

And, really...wasn't it always pretty obvious that he was gay? When he came out, it was only slightly less shocking than if Richard Simmons were to come out.

I mean...come on. Anyone else remember the video for "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go"?

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Chester@Jun 30 2003, 06:40 PM
And, really...wasn't it always pretty obvious that he was gay? When he came out, it was only slightly less shocking than if Richard Simmons were to come out.

I mean...come on. Anyone else remember the video for "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go"?
hahhah yeah, just watch some old Wham videos. no straight man can prance like that! :P

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 03:52 PM
i'm koo with gay ppl and everything. i think they should have the same rights as heterosexual ppl do. however i don't see the need to have these parades. we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff? A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too. I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jun 30 2003, 09:54 PM
i agree.

but as far as popular media is concerned, while i still see that homosexuality is still mocked, i also see that it's over-sensationalised sometimes, just because homosexuality has to do with sex and hollywood loves anything that has to do with sex. gay people have better representation in popular media than asian people, in my opinion (not that those two are mutually exclusive, but you know what i mean). george michael comes out of the closet and somehow that helps him sell albums.
What about Ellen DeGeneres? She came out of the closet, and her advertisers pulled out and her show got cancelled? Rosie O'Donnell? She came out and virtually disappeared.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by SunWuKung@Jun 30 2003, 09:54 PM
i agree.

but as far as popular media is concerned, while i still see that homosexuality is still mocked, i also see that it's over-sensationalised sometimes, just because homosexuality has to do with sex and hollywood loves anything that has to do with sex.  gay people have better representation in popular media than asian people, in my opinion (not that those two are mutually exclusive, but you know what i mean).  george michael comes out of the closet and somehow that helps him sell albums.
What about Ellen DeGeneres? She came out of the closet, and her advertisers pulled out and her show got cancelled? Rosie O'Donnell? She came out and virtually disappeared.
I think that had much to do with the fact that Ellen's show became a platform for everything gay (which made it a chore to watch as the viewer was beaten with one gay reference after another.) We knew DeGeneres was a lesbian, but before Ellen Morgan came out of the closet the show was hilarious. But afterwards? No, it started going downhill.

As for Rosie O'Donnell, the stereotypical "Angry Lesbian" attitude and haircut did little to support the heretofore likeable (albeit forced) image that her viewers were accustomed to. You'd think that with all that money and business/acting savvy, people like DeGeneres and O'Donnell would've known better than to pull a 180 and turn everything they've worked to build upside down.

[Chinese Tourist]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 07:52 AM
i'm koo with gay ppl and everything. i think they should have the same rights as heterosexual ppl do. however i don't see the need to have these parades. we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?


It seems that it is a way of blowing off steam, jubilantly declaring who they are, the exhilaration

if straight people did that kind of thing regularly, if the parades were done properly and the people were celebrating who they were, their fundamental identities, then the parades would quickly turn martial and there would be probable mass violence

I wonder if there is a certain number of parades in a timeframe that would blow off enough steam and wear out people enough in order to reduce the short term violence - even so people would be clamoring for competition constantly, and a war could develop

[Chinese Tourist]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point.  People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it.  They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff?  A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too.  I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.
no, if they see wow there are so many people, then they see so many people

it doesn't mean that the viewer thinks to himself, all these people, they are my next door neighbors, my friends, my relatives etc even if they viewer thinks so because then that viewer is a moron, it doesn't make sense.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff? A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too. I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.
How naive do people have to be to believe that there aren't that many homosexuals around them? It's not as though the entire Gay Rights movement is being led by a shadowy organisation of half a dozen people on behalf of several hundred. :D

Well, I guess everyone needs a parade now and then. Celebration is good for the human soul and everyone needs to have fun. ^_^

[Faithless]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 10:17 AM
this still doesn't justify the need for a gay parade
Sounds like it more than justifies it.

If no one cared what the hell gays/lesbians did, then a parade wouldn't be necessary. But since people do, a parade, I guess, is to show the community and everyone else that gays and lesbians exist and can not be brought-down by the evens cmar discusses.

[etcj]

Simple breakdown of Pride Parade components:

1) Politics: Political mobilization for gay, lesbian, and transgender civil rights issues (i.e. legislation or court cases)

2) Public Health: Community outreach to raise awareness of general and specific health issues (i.e. HIV, STD's, suicide, substance abuse)

3) Commercial Market: Business sector specifically targeting GLBT audiences (i.e. alcohol, cigarettes, clothing, bars, dance clubs)

4) Community Building: Removing isolation and creating a sense of community through gatherings or social events

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by etcj@Jun 30 2003, 10:19 PM
Simple breakdown of Pride Parade components:

1) Politics: Political mobilization for gay, lesbian, and transgender civil rights issues (i.e. legislation or court cases)

2) Public Health: Community outreach to raise awareness of general and specific health issues (i.e. HIV, STD's, suicide, substance abuse)

3) Commercial Market: Business sector specifically targeting GLBT audiences (i.e. alcohol, cigarettes, clothing, bars, dance clubs)

4) Community Building: Removing isolation and creating a sense of community through gatherings or social events
Well, that's good to know. So it's not just about needless frivolity. :)

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 10:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point.  People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it.  They must be normal people.


see...
on the CONTRARY... thats not how i feel...
i've attended the parade in previous events... so i'm talking first hand of just MY OWN experience... and what it is... its like one big freak show... with the participants being the extreme of things... they're NOT like your 'normal' average ppl... and i say freak show... in terms of men in costumes and what not... the flaring homosexuals, etc... etc... whom seem to be the focal point... or whom seem to get the attention... of the crowd...

and thats what i kinda have a problems with...
if anything... the so called 'normal' homosexuals... they dont necessarily receive that same attention from the masses... but than again, i dont think they have a need to show off...

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 10:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.


see...
on the CONTRARY... thats not how i feel...
i've attended the parade in previous events... so i'm talking first hand of just MY OWN experience... and what it is... its like one big freak show... with the participants being the extreme of things... they're NOT like your 'normal' average ppl... and i say freak show... in terms of men in costumes and what not... the flaring homosexuals, etc... etc... whom seem to be the focal point... or whom seem to get the attention... of the crowd...

and thats what i kinda have a problems with...
if anything... the so called 'normal' homosexuals... they dont necessarily receive that same attention from the masses... but than again, i dont think they have a need to show off...
I've seen the parades on San Francisco and from some pictures my friend took and it is very...festive, though not necessarily objectionable.

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 10:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.


see...
on the CONTRARY... thats not how i feel...
i've attended the parade in previous events... so i'm talking first hand of just MY OWN experience... and what it is... its like one big freak show... with the participants being the extreme of things... they're NOT like your 'normal' average ppl... and i say freak show... in terms of men in costumes and what not... the flaring homosexuals, etc... etc... whom seem to be the focal point... or whom seem to get the attention... of the crowd...

and thats what i kinda have a problems with...
if anything... the so called 'normal' homosexuals... they dont necessarily receive that same attention from the masses... but than again, i dont think they have a need to show off...
I've seen the parades on San Francisco and from some pictures my friend took and it is very...festive, though not necessarily objectionable.
hey,
i agree... it is a festive event... i'm not claiming that its not... but i'll tell ya... i dont view the event as it being seen as a true representation of the gay and lesbian community... lots of outsiders who may not be acquainted with the lifestyle... may view these ppl as weird... and i dont blame them for feeling like that... if the only picture they get is from some gay pride parade...

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 10:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.


see...
on the CONTRARY... thats not how i feel...
i've attended the parade in previous events... so i'm talking first hand of just MY OWN experience... and what it is... its like one big freak show... with the participants being the extreme of things... they're NOT like your 'normal' average ppl... and i say freak show... in terms of men in costumes and what not... the flaring homosexuals, etc... etc... whom seem to be the focal point... or whom seem to get the attention... of the crowd...

and thats what i kinda have a problems with...
if anything... the so called 'normal' homosexuals... they dont necessarily receive that same attention from the masses... but than again, i dont think they have a need to show off...
I've seen the parades on San Francisco and from some pictures my friend took and it is very...festive, though not necessarily objectionable.
hey,
i agree... it is a festive event... i'm not claiming that its not... but i'll tell ya... i dont view the event as it being seen as a true representation of the gay and lesbian community... lots of outsiders who may not be acquainted with the lifestyle... may view these ppl as weird... and i dont blame them for feeling like that... if the only picture they get is from some gay pride parade...
Well, I don't think a parade is going to promote some warped image of gay and lesbian individuals that people will lap up as a fact. No one's going to attend one of these things and say, "My god! My neighbour's gay so that means he must strut around in his barely-there underwear whilst blowing kisses in a seductive and thoroughly licentious manner at random passersby!"

In all honesty, you'd have to be very impressionable for something as frivolous as a Pride Parade to make upon you a lasting mental mark about homosexuals.

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 10:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.


see...
on the CONTRARY... thats not how i feel...
i've attended the parade in previous events... so i'm talking first hand of just MY OWN experience... and what it is... its like one big freak show... with the participants being the extreme of things... they're NOT like your 'normal' average ppl... and i say freak show... in terms of men in costumes and what not... the flaring homosexuals, etc... etc... whom seem to be the focal point... or whom seem to get the attention... of the crowd...

and thats what i kinda have a problems with...
if anything... the so called 'normal' homosexuals... they dont necessarily receive that same attention from the masses... but than again, i dont think they have a need to show off...
I've seen the parades on San Francisco and from some pictures my friend took and it is very...festive, though not necessarily objectionable.
hey,
i agree... it is a festive event... i'm not claiming that its not... but i'll tell ya... i dont view the event as it being seen as a true representation of the gay and lesbian community... lots of outsiders who may not be acquainted with the lifestyle... may view these ppl as weird... and i dont blame them for feeling like that... if the only picture they get is from some gay pride parade...
Well, I don't think a parade is going to promote some warped image of gay and lesbian individuals that people will lap up as a fact. No one's going to attend one of these things and say, "My god! My neighbour's gay so that means he must strut around in his barely-there underwear whilst blowing kisses in a seductive and thoroughly licentious manner at random passersby!"

In all honesty, you'd have to be very impressionable for something as frivolous as a Pride Parade to make upon you a lasting mental mark about homosexuals.
OF COURSE those ppl who attend... are not gonna have that OMG attitude... its really those OUTSIDERS... who may view it as weird... and personally speaking, i think events like these that happen every single year... can make some sorta impression on others...

and not everyone is like that...
they're just 'normal' types of ppl...
in whom really dont have the need
to make some sorta display of themselves...

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jun 30 2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 10:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.


see...
on the CONTRARY... thats not how i feel...
i've attended the parade in previous events... so i'm talking first hand of just MY OWN experience... and what it is... its like one big freak show... with the participants being the extreme of things... they're NOT like your 'normal' average ppl... and i say freak show... in terms of men in costumes and what not... the flaring homosexuals, etc... etc... whom seem to be the focal point... or whom seem to get the attention... of the crowd...

and thats what i kinda have a problems with...
if anything... the so called 'normal' homosexuals... they dont necessarily receive that same attention from the masses... but than again, i dont think they have a need to show off...
I've seen the parades on San Francisco and from some pictures my friend took and it is very...festive, though not necessarily objectionable.
hey,
i agree... it is a festive event... i'm not claiming that its not... but i'll tell ya... i dont view the event as it being seen as a true representation of the gay and lesbian community... lots of outsiders who may not be acquainted with the lifestyle... may view these ppl as weird... and i dont blame them for feeling like that... if the only picture they get is from some gay pride parade...
Well, I don't think a parade is going to promote some warped image of gay and lesbian individuals that people will lap up as a fact. No one's going to attend one of these things and say, "My god! My neighbour's gay so that means he must strut around in his barely-there underwear whilst blowing kisses in a seductive and thoroughly licentious manner at random passersby!"

In all honesty, you'd have to be very impressionable for something as frivolous as a Pride Parade to make upon you a lasting mental mark about homosexuals.
OF COURSE those ppl who attend... are not gonna have that OMG attitude... its really those OUTSIDERS... who may view it as weird... and personally speaking, i think events like these that happen every single year... can make some sorta impression on others...

and not everyone is like that...
they're just 'normal' types of ppl...
in whom really dont have the need
to make some sorta display of themselves...
All in good fun, I would imagine. The logic is the same throughout, I suppose. People dress up funny in Thanksgiving Day parades and the like, so why not for something like a Pride Parade? TapestryBabe, I don't think you're giving enough credit to the "outsiders." ;) I'm sure they have among them individuals who possess enough mental faculties to differentiate between what's done for laughs and what actually constitutes as a way of living. :lol:

But you're right that people will make assumptions every now and then. It's all part and parcel in the type of society we live in. You'll have people who implicity understand these issues and you'll have those who literally take ideas as they are. That's why we have fundamentalists of every sort.

[Fireblade]

Ok... I know people are gonna flame but I'll just say this.

I personally don't like the gay pride parade. I'm all for celebration of identity and stuff, but the thing is... when you're a native of san francisco, and outsiders from ALL around come into the city and decide they want to either trash people or things, or what-not.... it SUCKS. You might not believe me, but Gay Men are ESPECIALLY pushy on the light rail in San Francisco during the Gay Pride Parade.

You ever seen a group of queens chant "YOU CAN'T COME ON! YOU'RE NOT GAY."

If you're going to celebrate your own identity and through a crowd/mob mentality HARASS the locals... you gonna get me pissed.

And this is not a one-time occurance. This has happened most of my life going on the damn light rail in SF during the celebrations.

Be a peaceful person who respect others, then I'm all for it. But usually this is a way for gay men to scream and yell at everyone (they force most "straight" guys off the damn bus. This includes OLDER chinese ladies and men who are just trying to get home from work or at the local community center). <_<

[deez nuts]

i don't care either way about the parade. if the gays and lesbians want to have one, sure why not. do what you gotta do. more power to you.

just don't bother me and be rude to me when i'm walking down the street like i have encountered at times. like one time a couple of gay guys were yelling at me when i was walking down the street with my girlfriend. they putting me on blast cuz i choose cunt over cock.

i'll even put up with the minor nuisances i.e. traffic congestion, the crowds in my way when i'm trying to walk from point "a" to point "b", the noise etc etc. ain't no big deal to me.

nyc is their city just as much as it is my city.

and tone it down a notch. like tell some of the guys to stop prancing around in just a thong or other explicit outfits i.e. s&m wear.

some dude in a fairy outfit handing me and my a girl a flower or a ribbon. it kinda ruins the moment for me when the last thing i see is his ass cheeks flapping in the wind when he's prancing away.

[purezero]

People in my work were commenting about the parade. Mostly because one of my coworkers is a transgender. They thought it was a great thing. I think that it's something I need to see at least once in my lifetime. They did say something along the lines of... "Why are they so SMALL?" Hehe. Mo9re power to people who have pride in their identity.

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by ChottoMatte@Jun 30 2003, 10:42 PM
Sounds like it more than justifies it.

If no one cared what the hell gays/lesbians did, then a parade wouldn't be necessary. But since people do, a parade, I guess, is to show the community and everyone else that gays and lesbians exist and can not be brought-down by the evens cmar discusses.
like a flucking parade is going to make ppl accept them as normal ppl. i accept them. others do and don't. i tip my cap to them for trying even though i see it as pointless

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Jul 1 2003, 03:42 AM
Ok... I know people are gonna flame but I'll just say this.

I personally don't like the gay pride parade. I'm all for celebration of identity and stuff, but the thing is... when you're a native of san francisco, and outsiders from ALL around come into the city and decide they want to either trash people or things, or what-not.... it SUCKS. You might not believe me, but Gay Men are ESPECIALLY pushy on the light rail in San Francisco during the Gay Pride Parade.

You ever seen a group of queens chant "YOU CAN'T COME ON! YOU'RE NOT GAY."

If you're going to celebrate your own identity and through a crowd/mob mentality HARASS the locals... you gonna get me pissed.

And this is not a one-time occurance. This has happened most of my life going on the damn light rail in SF during the celebrations.

Be a peaceful person who respect others, then I'm all for it. But usually this is a way for gay men to scream and yell at everyone (they force most "straight" guys off the damn bus. This includes OLDER chinese ladies and men who are just trying to get home from work or at the local community center). <_<
Can't agree with you more on this point. Some gay guys (but certainly not all, of course) are so deliberately annoying and pushy that you really can't help but want to smack them around a few times. Oh, and I've heard many gay guys put down straight people in some odd reverse discrimination sort of way. We're called "Breeders" you know and many flaming homosexuals somehow have taken it upon themselves to despise us. <_<

[kuanyin]

ouch. what a steamy hot topic. where did the potato go??

[frcegrl]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 07:52 AM
however i don't see the need to have these parades. we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?
we are surrounded with "straight parades". all around us is the year-round celebration of straight life. why coudn't gays & lesbians have their celebration?

and if anyone looks at any of the pride parades or festivals and choose to believe that this how all gays/lesbians are, then they are narrow-minded. some celebrate louder than others and that's not ok? what about mardis gras in new orleans? should we judge all that go there?

as in any groups, we have bad seeds, bigots and jerks. don't judge me by these ppl and i won't judge you by what straight ppl have done to us.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jul 1 2003, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 10:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.


see...
on the CONTRARY... thats not how i feel...
i've attended the parade in previous events... so i'm talking first hand of just MY OWN experience... and what it is... its like one big freak show... with the participants being the extreme of things... they're NOT like your 'normal' average ppl... and i say freak show... in terms of men in costumes and what not... the flaring homosexuals, etc... etc... whom seem to be the focal point... or whom seem to get the attention... of the crowd...

and thats what i kinda have a problems with...
if anything... the so called 'normal' homosexuals... they dont necessarily receive that same attention from the masses... but than again, i dont think they have a need to show off...
I've been to them, too. This year's parade in Long Beach was pretty fun. I know that people are freaks there... what I'm saying, though, is that from the view of an outsider, you realize that most of these freaks aren't freaks in "real life." They know how to conduct themselves as normal human beings... OBVIOUSLY they don't look that stupid and act that weird on a day to day basis, or else you'd take notice, don't you think?

I mean, most of the gay guys I wnet to LBGP with are very normal, but they went all out for the festival.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point.&nbsp; People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it.&nbsp; They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff?&nbsp; A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too.&nbsp; I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.
How naive do people have to be to believe that there aren't that many homosexuals around them? It's not as though the entire Gay Rights movement is being led by a shadowy organisation of half a dozen people on behalf of several hundred. :D

Well, I guess everyone needs a parade now and then. Celebration is good for the human soul and everyone needs to have fun. ^_^
You'd be suprised how many people say "No, I've never met a gay person before," even though the person who serves them coffee every morning, the person who delivered their pizza, and the person who sits across from them in their office meeting might be homosexuals.

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Fireblade@Jul 1 2003, 11:42 AM
Ok... I know people are gonna flame but I'll just say this.

I personally don't like the gay pride parade. I'm all for celebration of identity and stuff, but the thing is... when you're a native of san francisco, and outsiders from ALL around come into the city and decide they want to either trash people or things, or what-not.... it SUCKS. You might not believe me, but Gay Men are ESPECIALLY pushy on the light rail in San Francisco during the Gay Pride Parade.

You ever seen a group of queens chant "YOU CAN'T COME ON! YOU'RE NOT GAY."

If you're going to celebrate your own identity and through a crowd/mob mentality HARASS the locals... you gonna get me pissed.

And this is not a one-time occurance. This has happened most of my life going on the damn light rail in SF during the celebrations.

Be a peaceful person who respect others, then I'm all for it. But usually this is a way for gay men to scream and yell at everyone (they force most "straight" guys off the damn bus. This includes OLDER chinese ladies and men who are just trying to get home from work or at the local community center). <_<
Just because some people abuse it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I've never had that happen to me before...

New Years in New York is particularly scary, but that doesn't mean celebrating new years is a bad idea...

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Chinese Tourist@Jul 1 2003, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff? A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too. I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.
no, if they see wow there are so many people, then they see so many people

it doesn't mean that the viewer thinks to himself, all these people, they are my next door neighbors, my friends, my relatives etc even if they viewer thinks so because then that viewer is a moron, it doesn't make sense.
i don't get what you're saying. speak in sentence format. who's a moron and what doesn't make sense???

if somebody who had no idea there were more than 12 homosexuals in their city, and saw how many people turned up for gay pride, they'd probably think to themselves, "holy crap that's a lot of queers." and, sure, a lot of people wouldn't care... but who knows, if one person is positively affected, doesn't that warrant promotion of awareness? i'm not saying the parades make people all warm and fuzzy toward gays.. i'm just saying that maybe the thought would occur to someone that, hey, that guy over there with the purple hair and glitter all over his face kinda looks like the guy i saw jogging down the street the other day.... this viewer doesn't have to say "these people are my neighbors," we'll just all hope that the viewer says "these people are somebody's neighbors."

[skatergrl]

The bottom line is no matter what anyone says here, the gay pride parade will always go on. Not only the population of gay people is slowly increasing, but so is the population of straight ppl who SUPPORT and GIVE LOVE to those who are gay. Unfortunately there are still the few narrowminded ppl (like some here in this forum) who are still going to say nothing but negative things about gays and lesbians. But the small percentage of you won't and will never stop the parade from happening. If anything you will give it more reason to go on. Look, you don't like it, don't go to it, otherwise DEAL WITH IT!!!!!! Cause you're gonna have to!!! :P

[tapestrybabe]

Originally posted by skatergrl@Jul 2 2003, 12:42 PM
The bottom line is no matter what anyone says here, the gay pride parade will always go on. Not only the population of gay people is slowly increasing, but so is the population of straight ppl who SUPPORT and GIVE LOVE to those who are gay. Unfortunately there are still the few narrowminded ppl (like some here in this forum) who are still going to say nothing but negative things about gays and lesbians.
i may have certain thoughts of negativity about the parade... but i dont think that necessarily makes me narrow minded... i'm just coming from a DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE... a perspective of a child growing up with a lesbian mother...

and my ma... is not like the majority that you see in the parade... she's just your normal, average everyday person... and i dont think a parade like that necessarily is gonna make ppl be more accepting... i mean, my grandparents are the types that werent accepting of gay ppl in the first place... but the only thing that changed them around... was when my mother finally came out to them...

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jul 3 2003, 12:59 AM
i may have certain thoughts of negativity about the parade... but i dont think that necessarily makes me narrow minded... i'm just coming from a DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE... a perspective of a child growing up with a lesbian mother...

and my ma... is not like the majority that you see in the parade... she's just your normal, average everyday person... and i dont think a parade like that necessarily is gonna make ppl be more accepting... i mean, my grandparents are the types that werent accepting of gay ppl in the first place... but the only thing that changed them around... was when my mother finally came out to them...
The point of the parade, though, I don't think is necessarily TO make them feel accepted. I think it's more to assert themselves as a reality of the world. And to tell people that they're here to stay.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jul 1 2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff? A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too. I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.
How naive do people have to be to believe that there aren't that many homosexuals around them? It's not as though the entire Gay Rights movement is being led by a shadowy organisation of half a dozen people on behalf of several hundred. :D

Well, I guess everyone needs a parade now and then. Celebration is good for the human soul and everyone needs to have fun. ^_^
You'd be suprised how many people say "No, I've never met a gay person before," even though the person who serves them coffee every morning, the person who delivered their pizza, and the person who sits across from them in their office meeting might be homosexuals.
It's hard not to have met a gay person in this day and age. Homosexuality has apparently gone mainstream now with television shows like "Will & Grace" and those rotten tabloids filled with the alleged perverse sexual adventures of celebrities. To be sure, you'll have people, like you mentioned, say that they haven't met any homosexuals before, but if you ask me they're probably in denial or completely in the dark.

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by skatergrl@Jul 2 2003, 09:42 AM
The bottom line is no matter what anyone says here, the gay pride parade will always go on. Not only the population of gay people is slowly increasing, but so is the population of straight ppl who SUPPORT and GIVE LOVE to those who are gay. Unfortunately there are still the few narrowminded ppl (like some here in this forum) who are still going to say nothing but negative things about gays and lesbians. But the small percentage of you won't and will never stop the parade from happening. If anything you will give it more reason to go on. Look, you don't like it, don't go to it, otherwise DEAL WITH IT!!!!!! Cause you're gonna have to!!! :P
i will continue to bitch about their parades no matter what. do i have a problem with gay ppl, not at all. do i see a point to a parade about their sexuallity? no

[Faithless]

Originally posted by skatergrl@Jul 2 2003, 08:42 AM
Not only the population of gay people is slowly increasing...
Correction: If anything, the population of gay people coming-out is increasing. But that's cool too. B)

What's wrong with a parade that celebrates something positive? It could be worse; it could be a parade for the Giants if they win the World Series. :blink:

[kasia]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jul 2 2003, 07:04 PM
i will continue to bitch about their parades no matter what. do i have a problem with gay ppl, not at all. do i see a point to a parade about their sexuallity? no
why? it's not like straight people are not allowed to have parades. they can have as many as they want - or a reasonable number at least. it's just that they choose not to. and since that is the case, why should their decision affect your view of gay parades? you don't like gay parades because straight people have decided not to have similar parades? that doesn't make sense.

OR could it be that you just don't like the idea of parades in general? in which case, it has nothing to do with the parade being a gay parade...

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 2 2003, 11:44 PM
why? it's not like straight people are not allowed to have parades. they can have as many as they want - or a reasonable number at least. it's just that they choose not to. and since that is the case, why should their decision affect your view of gay parades? you don't like gay parades because straight people have decided not to have similar parades? that doesn't make sense.

OR could it be that you just don't like the idea of parades in general? in which case, it has nothing to do with the parade being a gay parade...
While there is nothing inherently wrong with gay pride parades, I think the problem some people have with them is with how these events are being executed. Lavish is okay because no one wants to watch let alone participate in a dull procession, but pride parades, like any large gathering of people, can have its off moments. A San Franciscan friend of mine (who is straight) was accosted by a group of homosexual men for being in the "gay section" of the street (he wanted to catch a better glimpse of his best friend who was a participant.) Gay or straight, this type of behaviour is absolutely uncalled for and the fact that these events are usually over-the-top have a tendency to magnify unpleasant issues and give off a general air of negativity that some may quickly take advantage of.

[kasia]

Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 2 2003, 11:58 PM
A San Franciscan friend of mine (who is straight) was accosted by a group of homosexual men for being in the "gay section" of the street (he wanted to catch a better glimpse of his best friend who was a participant.)
what?? why did they do that? what did they do to him?

i've never been to a gay pride parade? is the crowd typically angry?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 3 2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jul 1 2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff? A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too. I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.
How naive do people have to be to believe that there aren't that many homosexuals around them? It's not as though the entire Gay Rights movement is being led by a shadowy organisation of half a dozen people on behalf of several hundred. :D

Well, I guess everyone needs a parade now and then. Celebration is good for the human soul and everyone needs to have fun. ^_^
You'd be suprised how many people say "No, I've never met a gay person before," even though the person who serves them coffee every morning, the person who delivered their pizza, and the person who sits across from them in their office meeting might be homosexuals.
It's hard not to have met a gay person in this day and age. Homosexuality has apparently gone mainstream now with television shows like "Will & Grace" and those rotten tabloids filled with the alleged perverse sexual adventures of celebrities. To be sure, you'll have people, like you mentioned, say that they haven't met any homosexuals before, but if you ask me they're probably in denial or completely in the dark.
It's not hard to meet a gay person, no. But there's lots of gay people out there who meet people lots of people every day and fail to specifically point out to people that they're gay. So there's tons of people out there who don't know exactly how many gay people they've met.
Things are a lot different in metropolitan areas than they are in small town-ish areas... where people probably really HAVN'T met a a huge number of gay people. But where, exactly, are you trying to go with this argument?

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 3 2003, 12:02 AM
what??&nbsp; why did they do that?&nbsp; what did they do to him?&nbsp;

i've never been to a gay pride parade?&nbsp; is the crowd typically angry?
They're not angry, no. It was one of those damnable things in life where isolated individuals feel compelled to assert their presence. My friend was basically was knocked around and had derogatory terms hurled at him for being a straight guy on a "gay street." We hear all about homosexuals being beaten up due to their sexual orientation, but rarely do we read about heteros getting pushed around for being "Breeders." There is a (very) small population of homosexuals who are downright hostile to heterosexual people. It sounds bizarre, but as Fireblade pointed out a few posts back, straight guys and girls sometimes get picked on, called names, or in my friend's case, roughed up.

I write this off having nothing to do with sexual orientation though (and rightly so.) Nasty people are nasty people regardless of being gay or straight.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by angel nympho@Jul 3 2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 3 2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jul 1 2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 1 2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by angel nympho@Jun 30 2003, 06:45 PM
I think the parades have a good point. People who aren't aware that there are so many homosexuals out there can watch the parade and say, wow, I probably have come into contact with a lot of homosexuals without knowing it. They must be normal people.

If you think gay people shouldn't have their own parade, do you think Asian people should have their parades and festivals and stuff? A lot of times, there's like *Asian Awareness* events that really have no occasion behind them, too. I'm sure they don't NEED it to be happy... it's just a fun event that promotes awareness and the fact that gay people aren't going anywhere.
How naive do people have to be to believe that there aren't that many homosexuals around them? It's not as though the entire Gay Rights movement is being led by a shadowy organisation of half a dozen people on behalf of several hundred. :D

Well, I guess everyone needs a parade now and then. Celebration is good for the human soul and everyone needs to have fun. ^_^
You'd be suprised how many people say "No, I've never met a gay person before," even though the person who serves them coffee every morning, the person who delivered their pizza, and the person who sits across from them in their office meeting might be homosexuals.
It's hard not to have met a gay person in this day and age. Homosexuality has apparently gone mainstream now with television shows like "Will & Grace" and those rotten tabloids filled with the alleged perverse sexual adventures of celebrities. To be sure, you'll have people, like you mentioned, say that they haven't met any homosexuals before, but if you ask me they're probably in denial or completely in the dark.
It's not hard to meet a gay person, no. But there's lots of gay people out there who meet people lots of people every day and fail to specifically point out to people that they're gay. So there's tons of people out there who don't know exactly how many gay people they've met.
Things are a lot different in metropolitan areas than they are in small town-ish areas... where people probably really HAVN'T met a a huge number of gay people. But where, exactly, are you trying to go with this argument?
Oh, you make a good point. There's no argument, really. It's just idle chit-chat. :) If there was a debate in the works I would've brought the heavy artillery out, but I was simply making a frivolous commentary on an otherwise loaded topic that had the potential to create a mass conflagration of opposing thoughts and opinions.

But I suppose the point I was trying to make was on the prevalence of gay and lesbian culture being increasing common in "mainstream" society. It is by way of this observation that I've formed the opinion that pride parades are just like any type of procession and that the "shock value" of homosexuality really shouldn't be as surprising as it may have been ten, twenty, thirty, or forty years ago. Naturally, you have those who are protected from social progress (e.g. small towns in the middle of nowhere) but given the qualities of mass media and the Internet, the only restriction holding others back from adopting postures of greater tolerance (and hopefully acceptance) is one's own personal values.

[sOKaLiBoY]

Originally posted by kasia@Jul 3 2003, 12:44 AM
why? it's not like straight people are not allowed to have parades. they can have as many as they want - or a reasonable number at least. it's just that they choose not to. and since that is the case, why should their decision affect your view of gay parades? you don't like gay parades because straight people have decided not to have similar parades? that doesn't make sense.

OR could it be that you just don't like the idea of parades in general? in which case, it has nothing to do with the parade being a gay parade...
i just don't see a point in having a parade so show that they are homosexual. i'm not going to try and shut them down or anything. but if that's what they want to do, oh well.

[kasia]

no personal attacks or flaming. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. for the new members, please refer to the YW Guidelines in the feedback forum.

[skatergrl]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jul 2 2003, 07:04 PM
i will continue to bitch about their parades no matter what. do i have a problem with gay ppl, not at all. do i see a point to a parade about their sexuallity? no
do you think that if you continue to bitch about the parade that maybe someone will hear you, and agree that the parade should not go on? gay ppl wouldn't have to have a parade if they were treated equally, and had equal rights. we (gay ppl) not only feel the need to have a parade, but to celebrate who we are, and to let people like yourself know that we deserve to be treated equally. we are tired of repeatedly having to hear people say "why do gay people have to do this and do that" Until the day comes that straight people and gay people have equal rights, the parade is something that is completely necessary and wonderful in every way.

[tapestrybabe]

i dont necessarily think i'm bitching about the parade... i'm all for equal rights and what not... and i think its fine... for those who participate... but i dont think it speaks for every gay person... cuz not everyone has the need to show off... like the flamin gays there... and make a statement in that way...

[skatergrl]

Originally posted by tapestrybabe@Jul 3 2003, 01:17 PM
i dont necessarily think i'm bitching about the parade... i'm all for equal rights and what not... and i think its fine... for those who participate... but i dont think it speaks for every gay person... cuz not everyone has the need to show off... like the flamin gays there... and make a statement in that way...
why is it "showing off"? It's celebrating who we are. And yeah, you're right, there are a lot of gay people who don't go to the parade, or even have an interest, but I don't think that it is a representation of all gays and lesbians. It's a celebration for those who want to participate. It's also their right and freedom to do so. So why bring negativity into something so positive?

(also i wasn't referring to you bitching)

[Danny]

my only issue with the gay pride parades and the like are they come out and the totally flamboyant, over the top weirdo's are marching, assless chaps, biker gear, men dressed liek their favorite actress, women wearing strap ons and the like... becuase a person is gay does not mean that they have to be flamboyant and totally over the top. WHen people stereotype homosexuals, those are the types of people they stereotype, the total over the top character that is probably only a small percentage of the homosexual community.

This images are splashed around the nation, so Bubba bunhead in Kentucky is watching in his trailer and see some bull dyke trucker standing on a light post exposing her junk to everyone wearing a rainbow wig and he has to think... why should I be for these people having equal rights when they act like this?

A majority of homosexuals look and act like everyone else in the world, there may be slight things that show up, effeminate voice, manicured nails and the like, but all in all, they are not like the peopl ethat the MEDIA shows on television, which is what the majority of the United States see.

A case where these 'weirdo's' which make up a small percentage of the gay population are partly responsible for the problems that homosexuals in this country run across, becuase when people in bumfuck Oregon are thinking Gay's, they are thinking the about the people that are wandering around in assless chaps carrying their boytoy around with a leather collar and a dog leash.

Maybe the Homosexual Associations should take a look at how they are being represented and see if they can show people that in fact the minority of homosexuals that are being shown on television and in news clips, are in fact just a minority.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by Danny@Jul 3 2003, 01:40 PM
my only issue with the gay pride parades and the like are they come out and the totally flamboyant, over the top weirdo's are marching, assless chaps, biker gear, men dressed liek their favorite actress, women wearing strap ons and the like... becuase a person is gay does not mean that they have to be flamboyant and totally over the top. WHen people stereotype homosexuals, those are the types of people they stereotype, the total over the top character that is probably only a small percentage of the homosexual community.

This images are splashed around the nation, so Bubba bunhead in Kentucky is watching in his trailer and see some bull dyke trucker standing on a light post exposing her junk to everyone wearing a rainbow wig and he has to think... why should I be for these people having equal rights when they act like this?

A majority of homosexuals look and act like everyone else in the world, there may be slight things that show up, effeminate voice, manicured nails and the like, but all in all, they are not like the peopl ethat the MEDIA shows on television, which is what the majority of the United States see.

A case where these 'weirdo's' which make up a small percentage of the gay population are partly responsible for the problems that homosexuals in this country run across, becuase when people in bumfuck Oregon are thinking Gay's, they are thinking the about the people that are wandering around in assless chaps carrying their boytoy around with a leather collar and a dog leash.

Maybe the Homosexual Associations should take a look at how they are being represented and see if they can show people that in fact the minority of homosexuals that are being shown on television and in news clips, are in fact just a minority.
Well, the same can be about straight people acting outrageously odd during public events. The only difference is when straight people watch other heterosexuals make themselves look foolish the aspect of sexual orientation never crosses their minds. When heteros see stereotypically flamboyant gay guys or butch lesbians acting weird in public, most automatically assume that this type of behaviour is the norm within the gay community. It's a terribly unbalanced issue.

And I'm not frowning on the pride parades, by the way. I usually don't like parades in general due to all the bluster, decadence and needless frivolity to celebrate something like Thanksgiving. :rolleyes: Give me turkey and a quite evening home any day.

[kuanyin]

Can i just say somehting as one of the few out lesbians (although i don't know who else is lesbo on this site) here?

There is never an excuse for mistreating people. I have been to many rallies, protests, parades in my life, and what i realize is that in a crowded area people have the tendency to become ovewhelmed with so much people contact. Emotions of all sorts can be brought up. So i've seen people be rowdy, violent, i've also seen police brutality come when things have been peaceful. There is no excuse for violence. i think you all have seen me write this.

i've got no territory issues about who participates in festivals. I recently went to LA's dyke march and i had seen some straight friends waiting across the street because there was a belief that they should not participate in the march. i went over and grabbed these friends and said, "join us!". the fact that they were there made me feel supported. the fact that they didn't immediately feel the need to join in made me feel humbled and made me respect who they were as people (and of course, my friends). I felt supported either way.

So while people might become violent or disrespectful to each other in all kinds of marches, etc...it doesn't make it right. i think what makes it difficult is that in those situaitons, as they happen, people are afraid to speak up and try to have a discussion about the real feeling going on AND people are afraid to listen to those who try to really build community. and this is in through any targeted group. we just happen to be talking about gay folk right now.

on top of this whole issue there is always alcohol involved at a pride festival. And alcoholism is high in the gay community. the two don't mix. when people drink they make less informed decisions. i feel bad for the gay men that get beaten by straight men. i feel bad for the straight man who get beaten by gay men.

where's the love?

and how come this post is turning into straight people arguing about whether or not gay people should have a parade? who the hell are you to tell me?

y'all don't need to be putting down a targeted group. i've got enough pressure just trying to exist much less argue about why gay pride parades need or need not be so flaunting.

and do you know what else happens in festivals?? tons and tons of booths to provide much needed services in this community. AA groups, safer sex tips, domestic violence services, health care, queer communities of color doing outreach for themselves (cause much of the gay white communitiy doesn't know how to deal with racism) and different venues within communities giving support to gay people. So while you all think about the parade and sit around judging its presence and content, people work there butts off to do outreach to this community so we can take care of each other.

why don't you all stop arguing about its presence and think about what positives come out of having a parade/festival?? or better yet how YOU can be supportive of those gay people in your life/community. especially cause hardly any of you are homophobic, right? our community could use more support.

[Danny]

Originally posted by Emperor_Mike@Jul 3 2003, 11:15 PM
When heteros see stereotypically flamboyant gay guys or butch lesbians acting weird in public, most automatically assume that this type of behaviour is the norm within the gay community. It's a terribly unbalanced issue.
That's the problem though... You are having a minority of a group representing you through the media. Most of the homosexuals that I have known, and know today are not flamboyant, they are normal everyday people, the only difference is that they have a same sex partner. It would be like the media focusing on Asians as being represenatives of the United States, we make up a small percentage of the entire country, but if the media focuses on Asians people would assume that number to be a lot larger than it actually is.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by Danny@Jul 6 2003, 09:57 AM
That's the problem though... You are having a minority of a group representing you through the media. Most of the homosexuals that I have known, and know today are not flamboyant, they are normal everyday people, the only difference is that they have a same sex partner. It would be like the media focusing on Asians as being represenatives of the United States, we make up a small percentage of the entire country, but if the media focuses on Asians people would assume that number to be a lot larger than it actually is.
Of course that's the problem and there's no real solution to it at this moment. Gay lifestyles are moving into the mainstream and it's disturbing to see that it's the stereotypical homosexual who's the spokesperson. It's all rubbish, really. People like Rosie O'Donnell and her angry lesbian image are essentially giving off a negative message that's not so much a statement on lesbianism, but rather one on general unpleasantness. And who among us likes unpleasant people? If this sort of thing carries on everyone else will begin to view homosexuality with an increasing skewed perspective and formulate hasty judgements based on stereotypes.

The last time I checked, that's not what the gay community needs. But then again, I'm in no position to make that sort of judgement, I suppose.

[kuanyin]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=orange]
:angry:

yeah...i'd like to say some really nasty shit right now. its a good thing i'm able to contain my anger and not bust you all on it.

but somebody does need to check this.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by kuanyin@Jul 7 2003, 11:09 AM
[SIZE=1][COLOR=orange]
:angry:

yeah...i'd like to say some really nasty shit right now. its a good thing i'm able to contain my anger and not bust you all on it.

but somebody does need to check this.
I hope nothing I've said is lending itself to your furor. My views follow the lines of eliminating stereotypes of gay and lesbian lifestyles that provide narrowminded people like fundamentalist Christian Jerry Falwell with ammunition to denounce the community.

[kuanyin]

i see your point,

but flamboyant gay men are just as much a part of any community as is the child with downsyndrome as is people of color to white people. why must we pick on anyone? just because they make certainstraight people or gay people uncomfortable doesn't mean they have no right. its just weird to me that two straight guys are going to talk about gay lifestyles.

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by kuanyin@Jul 7 2003, 11:35 AM
i see your point,

but flamboyant gay men are just as much a part of any community as is the child with downsyndrome as is people of color to white people. why must we pick on anyone? just because they make certainstraight people or gay people uncomfortable doesn't mean they have no right. its just weird to me that two straight guys are going to talk about gay lifestyles.
Initially, I took part in this discussion to voice my opinions on parades in general. I don't like them. :D

But then some of the posts here compelled me to take a closer look at the underlying difficulties that came with the topic, mainly the issues relating to tolerance and public perception. My participation in this discussion has more to do with off-the-cuff social commentaries than it does with the Gay/Lesbian cause & community. This could just as easily be about black/asian/hispanic/martian parades, you know.

In any case, yes, flamboyant gay men are a part of the community just like children with DownSyndrome. We don't have to pick on people, but the fact that the issue itself is a very touchy thing whose very existence has been condemned in the past centuries as "abnormal" and an "affront to God" presents it on the centre stage of a rather dubious performance. It doesn't help that the Fundamentalists are still crying out in indignation at Gay culture being mainstream and this factor as a whole contributes to the sensitivity of the matter. To make matters worse, the centuries of anti-homosexuality actions (imprisonment and execution for example) and views have ingrained themselves into the public mind, passed on by fathers, mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers. Change will come, but it will be a slow thing. No matter how badly you'd like for things to change over night, it simply won't happen that way. It also won't be total, mind you. Just like completely unanimous public polls are extremely rare, the same also goes for a society completely open to the Gay and Lesbian lifestyles.

There must come a time when everyone must take a pragmatic approach when viewing challenges in life. Ideally, it'd be nice if everyone can look at the Gay community and see it for more than "men in drag" and "women in plaid" (to use the common stereotypes) but at this juncture it's not going to happen. The way society views the Community and how those of you within said Community see yourselves as a group are entirely different. One side is largely steeped in ideals while the other camp only sees what they want to see as a representation of a group (which is men in drag, etc.) We can call for greater understanding and tolerance, but only through the passage of time will the significance of your efforts come to pass. There's no such thing as a quick fix in life. ;)

[Hanuman]

I welcome the Gay Pride parade. I love it when people take pride in who and what they are. Whether it be asian, puerto rican, gay or siamese twins, it's all good.

I know that the Gay Pride seems flamboyant at times, but I think that's the point. Yes there are gay people that are "normal" and have close croped hair cuts and wear a suit and tie to work everyday. If we had a bunch of people marching like that, who the hell would care? Besides, the point of being proud is that everyone, even the most extreme queen can be proud of who they are.

Isn't the point of the whole thing not how well we conform, but how we can celebrate our differences? I know that when I go down to Chinese New Years, the more firecrakers I see, the more Dragons and Lions dancing, the louder the beating of the drums, the more awed I am. It would really suck to have a bunch of Chinese business men in suits congratulating themselves on how well they've assimilated, as they walk down the street.

[PuChAi]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 07:52 AM
i'm koo with gay ppl and everything. i think they should have the same rights as heterosexual ppl do. however i don't see the need to have these parades. we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?
I really agree with yu on that, I dont see an AZN DAY parade anywhere,(if there is one yu people would tell me right??!!)But yeah we celebrate our new years culturally like me which is in April, but i dont see it televisedn or anything like that.I mean thai,lao and cambodians we all share a culture and this same new year, there are just as many of us as them,,ha ha ha,

[kitty]

Originally posted by sOKaLiBoY@Jun 30 2003, 03:52 PM
i'm koo with gay ppl and everything. i think they should have the same rights as heterosexual ppl do. however i don't see the need to have these parades. we don't need a straight ppl parade to be happy do we?
Gays have to deal with the whole 'don't ask don't tell' policy which racial minorities don't have to deal with. They've been ignored and misunderstood and many gays still have to deal with a certain amount of shamefulness from families and themselves in relation to their sexual orientation. Being gay was not something to be proud of... instead it was something to hide and to 'make right' through churchgoing and workshops. Gay pride parades are, I feel, a way by LGBTQ organizations to combat it by saying "it's okay to have any kind of sexual orientation outside the norm, be it a 'normal-seeming' gay man or being as flamboyantly transsexual as you want". It's all about celebrating being visible in the community rather than hiding or remaining closeted.

[kuanyin]

Dear Emperor Mike,

I believe iin miracles., or i think you would call them miracles. I have heard and seen terrbile things in my life, and perhaps i will be called a fool to want change to happen sooner than later. but i believe in educating people to open and expand their mind without waiting for the rest of society to say its ok to do so. i didn't come out after Will & Grace was aired. i didn't come out becuse it was popular. i didn't come out bi first because that was safer. i came out as a lesbian in all my femmininity to a school that was not supportive of me whatsoever. But i believe in miracles. and i work hard to make those miracles happen. :dance:

[Emperor_Mike]

Originally posted by kuanyin@Jul 7 2003, 02:29 PM
Dear Emperor Mike,

I believe iin miracles., or i think you would call them miracles. I have heard and seen terrbile things in my life, and perhaps i will be called a fool to want change to happen sooner than later. but i believe in educating people to open and expand their mind without waiting for the rest of society to say its ok to do so. i didn't come out after Will & Grace was aired. i didn't come out becuse it was popular. i didn't come out bi first because that was safer. i came out as a lesbian in all my femmininity to a school that was not supportive of me whatsoever. But i believe in miracles. and i work hard to make those miracles happen. :dance:
Everyone needs something to believe in because if we're pragmatic on all things we'd be categorised as being overly cynical. :D It's good that you harbour such an ardent wish for change and we can only hope that the ideals you share will be epoused by the rest of humanity in the ages to come.