Any Asian countries have slaves?

[Faithless]

In my minor research, I don't think I've come across an Asian country that had black slaves. Not that makes Asian countries saintly. Although I have heard of some Asian countries enslaving parts of their own race. :frown:

[YuheiCarreau]

Why would Asians enslave Blacks when they had little to no contact with Africa? Indentured servitude and a feudal society were common in most parts of east Asia, but Africa is not the only place to get slaves from. Don't you think you're looking at the situation from too much of an American perspective?

[SunWuKong]

the Yi ethnic minority in China historically had a caste society where people owned slaves. off the top of my head, i think i remember reading that there were basically 3 classes. the ruling class was actually a very small percentage of their population, and they owned slaves which comprised of the majority of their population, and these slaves, in turn, owned slaves which comprised of a smaller percentage of the population. those slaves of slaves were treated little better than work animals.

[angel nympho]

I don't know about other races, but I've definately heard of people enslaving women and children... ...I ... think?

[Faithless]

This is just a general exploration -- if anyone cares. I just want to understand the extent of the African slave trade into Asia. Most references indicate there was slaves in West Asia.

[Fireblade]

Didn't some places in India have slaves? I recall reading something about it, about richer families had slaves or something.. I'm not too sure.

[Uncle Tat]

Yes they're called Filipinos and Malaysians.

Flame me all you want but you know they are the maids of Asia.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Uncle Tat@May 29 2003, 02:53 PM
Yes they're called Filipinos and Malaysians.

Flame me all you want but you know they are the maids of Asia.
but they're certainly not slaves.

[Uncle Tat]

Close enough dude :)

[ChairmanMah]

unless you are the boss, we are all slaves.

even if you are the boss, you are a slave to money.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Uncle Tat@May 29 2003, 02:59 PM
Close enough dude :)
not really. their labour is sold, and not already owned by somebody else.

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 29 2003, 12:13 PM
unless you are the boss, we are all slaves.

even if you are the boss, you are a slave to money.
So to be ultimately your own boss, you've gotta have power to control the entire world?

So hitler had it right? :lol:

[rakovlam]

Didn't some places in India have slaves? I recall reading something about it, about richer families had slaves or something.. I'm not too sure.

It''s called the Hindu caste system. The slaves are the untouchables who are forced to do menial works because they were born in this caste. Technically, the Indian constitution bans the caste system, but almost no one enforces it.

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by rakovlam@May 29 2003, 12:22 PM

It''s called the Hindu caste system. The slaves are the untouchables who are forced to do menial works because they were born in this caste. Technically, the Indian constitution bans the caste system, but almost no one enforces it.
I thought they were cracking down on this? And I thought that slaves do not exist in the country anymore? :blink:

Maybe I should research this, instead of asking questions all the time.

[rakovlam]

I thought they were cracking down on this? And I thought that slaves do not exist in the country anymore? 

Maybe I should research this, instead of asking questions all the time.

According to the my latest issue of National Geographic, it's still prevalent.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 29 2003, 10:29 AM
Why would Asians enslave Blacks when they had little to no contact with Africa? Indentured servitude and a feudal society were common in most parts of east Asia, but Africa is not the only place to get slaves from. Don't you think you're looking at the situation from too much of an American perspective?
Yeah. But going off topic a bit here, China did have a little contact with Africa. The infamous Chinese explorer Zheng He sailed all the way to East Africa and supposedly his men landed on the shore of a distant island off the coast of present-day Kenya and married the local women. There's supposed to be a small tribe of mixed-race black/chinese people on the island now, more than 500 years later. But of course, he brought no slaves back to China as a matter of fact he didn't enslave any of the Africans. But he did bring back a few giraffes to a zoo back in Southern China.

But anyway, about the topic, yes I also remember hearing about slavery still going on in India, though I thought it also had to do with one's skin color, i.e. the darker you were, the lower on the caste system you were.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@May 29 2003, 04:32 PM
Yeah. But going off topic a bit here, China did have a little contact with Africa. The infamous Chinese explorer Zheng He sailed all the way to East Africa and supposedly his men landed on the shore of a distant island off the coast of present-day Kenya and married the local women. There's supposed to be a small tribe of mixed-race black/chinese people on the island now, more than 500 years later. But of course, he brought no slaves back to China as a matter of fact he didn't enslave any of the Africans. But he did bring back a few giraffes to a zoo back in Southern China.

But anyway, about the topic, yes I also remember hearing about slavery still going on in India, though I thought it also had to do with one's skin color, i.e. the darker you were, the lower on the caste system you were.
he brought giraffes onto his ships?

[TyroneK(prettypretty)]

Yup. Zheng was the man.

I know that African slaves were common through Persian history. They count as Asian, right?

Since the Africans sold their own people as slaves for centuries to whoever was paying the highest, I would be surprised if there weren't some African slaves floating around Asian countries throughout history. Depends on the trade contacts.

[YuheiCarreau]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@May 29 2003, 02:32 PM
Yeah. But going off topic a bit here, China did have a little contact with Africa. The infamous Chinese explorer Zheng He sailed all the way to East Africa and supposedly his men landed on the shore of a distant island off the coast of present-day Kenya and married the local women. There's supposed to be a small tribe of mixed-race black/chinese people on the island now, more than 500 years later. But of course, he brought no slaves back to China as a matter of fact he didn't enslave any of the Africans. But he did bring back a few giraffes to a zoo back in Southern China.
I think I can remember reading that for a time, Chinese aristocrats considered midgets or Africans hot commodities as servants (for the novelty of it, I guess). but that' kind of thing doesn't seem big enough to affect either culture involved, so I don't think it makes sense to regard it in the same way we regard African slaves in America or Asian slaves in Asia.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by VBKao@May 29 2003, 04:47 PM
Yup. Zheng was the man.

I know that African slaves were common through Persian history. They count as Asian, right?

Since the Africans sold their own people as slaves for centuries to whoever was paying the highest, I would be surprised if there weren't some African slaves floating around Asian countries throughout history. Depends on the trade contacts.
Persian people are considered Middle Eastern. plus, they're caucasoid. they have Aryan genes, from the same stock as German people.

[ChairmanMah]

Originally posted by Fireblade@May 29 2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 29 2003, 12:13 PM
unless you are the boss, we are all slaves.

even if you are the boss, you are a slave to money.
So to be ultimately your own boss, you've gotta have power to control the entire world?

So hitler had it right? :lol:
not sure about that but i think if everyone put spiritual wealth ahead of material wealth then we'd be better off.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 29 2003, 04:49 PM
I think I can remember reading that for a time, Chinese aristocrats considered midgets or Africans hot commodities as servants (for the novelty of it, I guess). but that' kind of thing doesn't seem big enough to affect either culture involved, so I don't think it makes sense to regard it in the same way we regard African slaves in America or Asian slaves in Asia.
i certainly don't doubt that there were slaves in Asian countries in history. but i think the difference is, was there an industry of slave trade, along the lines of the triangular trade of molasses, slaves, and rum?

[ChairmanMah]

and we've already came to a conclusion that man can't govern themselves, we need a higher power to look up to.

[yoMAMA]

The Chinese were Mao's slave, and also were Mongol's slaves couple hundred years ago.

[Faithless]

Originally posted by VBKao@May 29 2003, 12:47 PM
Yup. Zheng was the man.

I know that African slaves were common through Persian history. They count as Asian, right?

Since the Africans sold their own people as slaves for centuries to whoever was paying the highest, I would be surprised if there weren't some African slaves floating around Asian countries throughout history. Depends on the trade contacts.
Fug! You learn something everyday.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He)

Poor guy, Zheng, was a eunuch. :frown:

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by yoMAMA@May 29 2003, 05:14 PM
The Chinese were Mao's slave, and also were Mongol's slaves couple hundred years ago.
err... no.

[Faithless]

Could it be argued that Zheng took no slaves from Africa, because China had enough of its own?

[yoMAMA]

Something terrible happend to Admiral Zheng a long time ago, when he was little.......... :unsure:

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 29 2003, 03:49 PM
I think I can remember reading that for a time, Chinese aristocrats considered midgets or Africans hot commodities as servants (for the novelty of it, I guess). but that' kind of thing doesn't seem big enough to affect either culture involved, so I don't think it makes sense to regard it in the same way we regard African slaves in America or Asian slaves in Asia.
Like I said, I don't remember ever reading or hearing about any slaves being brought back from his trips to Africa, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were slaves in China already.

American slavery is a completely different animal, though. I see no similarities here, and as far as I know China never did anything like what America did.

BTW, thanks for the link ChottoMatte. I remember reading it somewhere about Zheng He bringing the giraffes back to China, but if someone had asked me to say exactly where did I hear it, I honestly wouldn't have been able to tell them. It was just from my memory, off the top of my head, actually.

As for whether or not China already had its own slaves I really can't say. ;)

[yoMAMA]

Actually, China did have slaves, by law-but it was really early, like 500 years BC or something like that. The common practice was to trade 5 slaves for one horse.

Thus the common saying '4 slaves can't exchange a horse'.

The remarkable thing about Chinese civilization is its quick transformation from slave society to a feudal one.

By the time China abolished slavery, Rome was still owning slaves.

[ChairmanMah]

wasn't the great wall built by slaves? or were they workers commisioned by the gov't. I can't remember.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 29 2003, 07:19 PM
wasn't the great wall built by slaves? or were they workers commisioned by the gov't. I can't remember.

technically they weren't "slaves", but i think the workers were probably made to build the wall by the emperors for no money. not 100% sure though.

[yoMAMA]

Originally posted by ChairmanMah@May 29 2003, 03:19 PM
wasn't the great wall built by slaves? or were they workers commisioned by the gov't. I can't remember.
More like 'forced labors'.

[BeTheReds]

Did you know that the USA only imported 2% of all the slaves who came out of west Africa? Merry old England also imported 2%. People are always quick to blame the USA for slavery but the truth of the matter is more slaves went to Brazil and the islands in the Carribean than to the USA. Possibly 80% of them. I never hear about calls for the govt to issue reparations in those countries. Why does this happen only in the USA?

http://www.rit.edu/~africa/diaspora/64.gif

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@May 29 2003, 08:54 PM
Did you know that the USA only imported 2% of all the slaves who came out of west Africa? Merry old England also imported 2%. People are always quick to blame the USA for slavery but the truth of the matter is more slaves went to Brazil and the islands in the Carribean than to the USA. Possibly 80% of them. I never hear about calls for the govt to issue reparations in those countries. Why does this happen only in the USA?
i guess that really depends on how effected the "black" people in south america and the carribean are today by past slavery. to my understanding, part of their argument is that even though they were emancipated, they were not on equal educational and economic footing with white people, and this unequal footing has been "inherited", if you will, through the generations, especially since institutionalised racism was still rampant until the civil rights movements.


* disclaimer - i don't necessarily agree with them, but to the best of my understanding, that is part of their argument.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@May 29 2003, 07:54 PM
Did you know that the USA only imported 2% of all the slaves who came out of west Africa? Merry old England also imported 2%. People are always quick to blame the USA for slavery but the truth of the matter is more slaves went to Brazil and the islands in the Carribean than to the USA. Possibly 80% of them. I never hear about calls for the govt to issue reparations in those countries. Why does this happen only in the USA?

http://www.rit.edu/~africa/diaspora/64.gif
Personally, I don't agree with something as extreme as reparations (i.e. 40 acres and a mule, or a large sum of money) to every black person in america. I remember hearing about a plan that would take x amount of money from your paycheck every week and donate it to an organization benefitting african-americans such as NAACP, United Negro College Fund, etc. Of course it would be voluntary. That sounds like a much better (and more moderate) plan to me. In the end, the money goes back to the black community (or at least it's supposed to)

I know that even though right is right, and that one is supposed to pay back what one owes, quite frankly a lot of black people (disclaimer: NOT ALL) are just greedy and want the money and will use slavery as a sad excuse for it.

[golden_buns]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@May 29 2003, 04:54 PM
Did you know that the USA only imported 2% of all the slaves who came out of west Africa? Merry old England also imported 2%. People are always quick to blame the USA for slavery but the truth of the matter is more slaves went to Brazil and the islands in the Carribean than to the USA. Possibly 80% of them. I never hear about calls for the govt to issue reparations in those countries. Why does this happen only in the USA?
because in South America, once the catholic church banned slavery everyone decided to leave blacks alone. and in the aftermath there were no lynchings, hangings, beatings, killings, nor segregation like in the US. That's why people focus so much more on slavery in the US

[mr. x]

hmm i dont think so, at least not on a wide scale

correct me if im wrong, but arent dark-skinned (basically black) people in brazil for example, descendants of slaves? so that means they pretty much settled down in that country and became a part of the country's err color.

[Asianrules]

Do you consider Israel Asia Minor? If so, they practice modern sex slavery in 2003. They have 'slave auctions' of women for the buying and selling. They are traded like cattle in Israel.

[ChinaLama]

Originally posted by Asianrules@May 30 2003, 10:58 AM
Do you consider Israel Asia Minor? If so, they practice modern sex slavery in 2003. They have 'slave auctions' of women for the buying and selling. They are traded like cattle in Israel.
Did you actually find this news or are you making this up off the top of your head? people say plenty of anti-Israel stuff in college but I haven't heard "slave auctions" yet.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChinaLama@May 30 2003, 09:05 AM
Did you actually find this news or are you making this up off the top of your head? people say plenty of anti-Israel stuff in college but I haven't heard "slave auctions" yet.
i quick search on google does turn up some sites about human trafficking in israel. but it seems to me like israel has the same problem as many countries in that it is simply not doing enough to stop human trafficking, and it is not the case that the government is openly sanctioning it or something like that.

[Faithless]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 30 2003, 08:24 AM
i quick search on google does turn up some sites about human trafficking in israel. but it seems to me like israel has the same problem as many countries in that it is simply not doing enough to stop human trafficking, and it is not the case that the government is openly sanctioning it or something like that.
I did a quick google search as well. But could not find a credible source. I searched Amnesty International (http://www.amnesty.org/) and came up blank.

[SunWuKong]

Originally posted by ChottoMatte@May 31 2003, 04:14 AM
I did a quick google search as well. But could not find a credible source. I searched Amnesty International (http://www.amnesty.org/) and came up blank.
here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=israel+sex+slaves)

[Faithless]

Originally posted by SunWuKung@May 31 2003, 08:30 AM
here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=israel+sex+slaves)
Checked your search and found:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/...ain541762.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/world/main541762.shtml)

$1 billion-a-year sex trade, reputedly one of the biggest of its kind in the world, has sprung up in Israel over the past decade. Every year, hundreds of women from eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union are smuggled into Israel.


:pissed:

[Asianrules]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/...ain541762.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/24/world/main541762.shtml)

A $1 billion-a-year sex trade, reputedly one of the biggest of its kind in the world, has sprung up in Israel over the past decade.

A Tel Aviv pimp, said a woman could cost up to $20,000, depending on her looks. "It's like a car. It depends how valuable she is," he said, standing on a street lined with flashing lights advertising brothels near Tel Aviv's old central bus station. Arabs and Orthodox Jews have "very strong taboos against sexual connections outside of marriage and therefore go to a place where they can do it more anonymously. It's a matter of supply and demand," he said. (Elisabeth Eaves, "Israel not the promised land for Russian sex slaves," Reuters, 23 August 1998)

Israel is a popular destination for the human trade. It is not difficult to smuggle and hide Russian-speaking women in a country where almost a million people originate from the former Soviet Union.

"It's very easy for them to disappear between all the Russian-speaking women in Israel," Levenkron said. "It's very easy for traffickers to bring women here and when you have the supply, you have the demand."

A recent U.S. State Department report on human trafficking put Israel on a list of countries where the phenomenon is rampant. It has until 2003 to implement "minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking" or face stiff economic sanctions.

[Chinese Tourist]

Ming dynasty had some black slaves, however they may have been New Guinea pygmies who are related to Southeast Asians and not Africans.

[deez nuts]

Originally posted by Chinese Tourist@Jun 8 2003, 12:57 PM
Ming dynasty had some black slaves, however they may have been New Guinea pygmies who are related to Southeast Asians and not Africans.

lol pygmy slaves running around.

black minnie me's.

[maldito]

Originally posted by mr. x@May 29 2003, 09:55 PM
hmm i dont think so, at least not on a wide scale

correct me if im wrong, but arent dark-skinned (basically black) people in brazil for example, descendants of slaves? so that means they pretty much settled down in that country and became a part of the country's err color.
No, not necessarily. Let's not forget the indian tribes that were there before the Portuguese arrived. Then later at the turn of the last century some Arabs went to Brasil too.

[Faithless]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chinese Tourist+Jun 8 2003, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chinese Tourist @ Jun 8 2003, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ming dynasty had some black slaves, however they may have been New Guinea pygmies who are related to Southeast Asians and not Africans. [/b][/quote]
Got a web reference or otherwise as proof?

[RasFarengi]

India had black African slaves, probably white slaves too, they were brought their by Muslims from Central Asia, slavery of nonMuslims (white or black, but especially black Africans nonMuslims and white Eastern European Slavs)..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1035000/1035389.stm

By the World Today's Andrew Whitehead
Long before the first slave ships started supplying labour to the cotton plantations of the American south, and many centuries before the first Africans were brought ashore to the sugar estates of Brazil and the Caribbean, Africans were being sold as slave-soldiers for India's princely states.

Their descendants are the least visible part of the huge African diaspora.

But today in India, almost lost among the mosaic of different cultures and communities in that country, are tens of thousands of people of African descent.

They are known as Sidis.

Slavery

Although they came at first as slaves, they were so successful as fighters that they at times usurped power from the rulers they were supposed to be serving.


Most have lost touch with their roots

Yet they are now struggling at the margins of Indian society.

"The Sidis are descendants of African slaves, sailors and servants, and merchants who remained in India after arriving through the sea trade with East Africa and the Gulf," says Amy Catlin of the University of California, who is making a special study of Sidi culture.

"That was a process which began in the 12th century or before, and lasted until the late 19th century".

Lost touch

Some Sidis are keenly aware of their past, and a few remain in touch with relatives in Africa.



But in the western Indian state of Gujarat - where most Sidis live - the community has lost touch with its roots.

The village of Jambur, deep in the Gir forest, is one of two exclusively Sidi settlements.

It is miserably poor.

The headman explains that yes, everyone in Jambur is a Sidi.

Their forbears came from Africa.

But they have lost any knowledge of African languages, and don't know where exactly their ancestors came from or why they settled in India.

Music and dance

The only remnant they retain of their African lineage is their music and dance.


The Sidi community is very poor

This is what Professor Catlin, an ethno-musicologist, hopes to use to fill in the story of the Sidis.

"In Gujarat, affinities with African music include certain musical instruments and their names", she says, "and also the performance of an African-derived musical genre called "goma".

In the nearby town of Junagadh, a smaller group of Sidis lives alongside the shrine of Bava Gor, an ancient Sufi Muslim holyman who was himself of African descent.

Their hold on their African past is a little more secure.

They say they know a few songs in an African language, but not their meaning.

And their dance is more obviously African.

But again, their music, song and dance are the only links with their African past.

Amy Catlin believes that the Sidis of western India came from coastal and inland villages in east Africa which were raided by slave traders.

But that's far from certain.

Indeed, one legend has it that the Sidis of inland Gujarat originally came from Kano in northern Nigeria, and ended up in India after undertaking a Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca.

Music may be the only key that can unlock their past.

[Faithless]

<!--QuoteBegin-RasFarengi+Aug 6 2003, 11:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RasFarengi @ Aug 6 2003, 11:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> India had black African slaves, probably white slaves too, they were brought their by Muslims from Central Asia, slavery of nonMuslims (white or black, but especially black Africans nonMuslims and white Eastern European Slavs).. [/b][/quote]
I'm aware of that one. I was thinking more in the line of China, Japan, Korea, SouthEast Asia.

By looking at this map (how accurate?), I don't see the slave trade ever moving into those countries.

http://launchpad.gmc.cc.ga.us/valdosta/sst...stext/slave.htm (http://launchpad.gmc.cc.ga.us/valdosta/sstext/slave.htm)

[teaz0r]

thailand had slaves.

not anymore.

well, it's not legal anymore.

[moschikat]

<!--QuoteBegin-teaz0r+Aug 6 2003, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (teaz0r @ Aug 6 2003, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thailand had slaves.

not anymore.

well, it's not legal anymore. [/b][/quote]
*gasp!* :o

It's not!?!?

Why do we still have maids then??? :unsure:

[teaz0r]

<!--QuoteBegin-moschikat+Aug 7 2003, 04:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moschikat @ Aug 7 2003, 04:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-teaz0r+Aug 6 2003, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (teaz0r @ Aug 6 2003, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thailand had slaves.

not anymore.

well, it's not legal anymore. [/b][/quote]
*gasp!* :o

It's not!?!?

Why do we still have maids then??? :unsure: [/b][/quote]
because we can.

[RasFarengi]

Yeah I guess Asia has a lot of sex slaves, mostly young girls...Chinese, Cambodian, Thai, Burmese, Lao, Russians and other Eastern Europeans, they are all over Japan's redlight district, Hong KOng, Macao, Korea, and even Mainland China in the hidden backrooms of Barber Shops and K-TV places...

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-RasFarengi+Aug 7 2003, 12:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RasFarengi @ Aug 7 2003, 12:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah I guess Asia has a lot of sex slaves, mostly young girls...Chinese, Cambodian, Thai, Burmese, Lao, Russians and other Eastern Europeans, they are all over Japan's redlight district, Hong KOng, Macao, Korea, and even Mainland China in the hidden backrooms of Barber Shops and K-TV places... [/b][/quote]
don't know about other places, but as far as HK, Macau, and generally the Guangdong area goes, these women aren't "slaves" in the sense that they are held against their will. they do it willingly as to make some quick money. but yes, a lot of time the triad groups that run these operations end up ripping them off.

[RasFarengi]

What about the girls who get kidnapped (usually teenages) in the North, usually rural areas, and forced to work under the thread of violence, or are all those girls who keep disappearing in China just running away and hidding somewhere?

The Russia and other slavic white slavery thing is known and has been going on since the fall of the Soviet Union, and it is very present in East Asia, not sure about Hong Kong though, but i even saw some of them in Shanghai...

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-RasFarengi+Aug 7 2003, 03:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RasFarengi @ Aug 7 2003, 03:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What about the girls who get kidnapped (usually teenages) in the North, usually rural areas, and forced to work under the thread of violence, or are all those girls who keep disappearing in China just running away and hidding somewhere?

The Russia and other slavic white slavery thing is known and has been going on since the fall of the Soviet Union, and it is very present in East Asia, not sure about Hong Kong though, but i even saw some of them in Shanghai... [/b][/quote]
*shrug* i don't know about other areas.

there are plenty of girls who willingly go down to HK, Macau, and the general Guangdong area (in particular Shenzhen, Zhuhai, Guangzhou, etc) to do this. they make a quick buck for a few months (and in the case of HK and Macau, a 3-month tourist visa), and then leave to go home with cash in hand - if they don't get ripped off by the triad.

[Chinese Tourist]

when Ming sent out its great expeditions, Thai society surprised them. Women manage the household, market etc and Thai men were willing to allow the Chinese to cavort with their wives, indeed one even said that he was happy that the man from China was pleased with his wife.

My source on this and the pygmy slaves are primarily from Louise Levathes book "When China ruled the seas" which details the Ming dynasty fleets and its historical precedents. Pygmy slaves were used only by rich folk and as gatekeepers and the like; it was said by the Arabs that they had no longing for their homeland, and by the Chinese that, although the slaves could eventually come to understand human speech, they themselves could not speak it.

[Chinese Tourist]

also at the beginning of Qing dynasty some Chinese slave communities were setup. I do not know how widespread this was: it was primarily in northern China, around Gansu and Shaanxi perhaps. The problem was that the Chinese easily escaped and melted into the population. The idea was abandoned.

[azizgilani]

I know that African slaves were common through Persian history. They count as Asian, right?

<!--QuoteBegin-SunWuKung+May 29 2003, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SunWuKung @ May 29 2003, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Persian people are considered Middle Eastern.&nbsp; plus, they're caucasoid.&nbsp; they have Aryan genes, from the same stock as German people. [/b][/quote]

Thanks for telling me I am not Asian.

[SunWuKong]

<!--QuoteBegin-azizgilani+Aug 10 2003, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (azizgilani @ Aug 10 2003, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thanks for telling me I am not Asian. [/b][/quote]
i have never really thought that Middle Eastern people are Asian. actually, i wasn't sure if Middle Eastern people considered themselves to be Asian, and i had a Persian girlfriend back in college and so i asked her and she said no, they consider themselves Middle Eastern.

[BigLew]

<!--QuoteBegin-azizgilani+Aug 10 2003, 09:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (azizgilani @ Aug 10 2003, 09:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->


Thanks for telling me I am not Asian. [/b][/quote]
I thought you didn't like being called Asian. Correct me if I misconstrued what you said.

[azizgilani]

<!--QuoteBegin-BigLew+Aug 10 2003, 01:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigLew @ Aug 10 2003, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I thought you didn't like being called Asian. Correct me if I misconstrued what you said. [/b][/quote]
I am unhappy with the monopolization of the term "Asian" by East/Southeast Asians, something that I see happening all the time on these forums.

An interesting read about the mis-use of the term "Asian" I don't know If I agree with everything said, but interesting all the same.

Asian Indentity in Amro-Europian Context
http://neumann.f2o.org/sarlito/a_ident.html

[VV o n g B a]

<!--QuoteBegin-azizgilani+Aug 10 2003, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (azizgilani @ Aug 10 2003, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am unhappy with the monopolization of the term "Asian" by East/Southeast Asians, something that I see happening all the time on these forums.

An interesting read about the mis-use of the term "Asian" I don't know If I agree with everything said, but interesting all the same.

Asian Indentity in Amro-Europian Context
http://neumann.f2o.org/sarlito/a_ident.html [/b][/quote]
the article didn't seem to have any conclusions. it just went and proved that not every asian is chinese. well, i mean, duh...

but if u are unhappy with the monopolization what then would u suggest? do middle easterners wish to be called asians? and is that on a political or racial level? i think politically, they can be counted as asians but not racially. i don't think there is an overall asian race if we're being exact here, but if there were then it wouldn't include middle easterners.

[azizgilani]

<!--QuoteBegin-VV o n g B a+Aug 10 2003, 02:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (VV o n g B a @ Aug 10 2003, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the article didn't seem to have any conclusions. it just went and proved that not every asian is chinese. well, i mean, duh...

but if u are unhappy with the monopolization what then would u suggest? do middle easterners wish to be called asians? and is that on a political or racial level? [/b][/quote]
All threads I interact with seem to go back to this conversation

http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?sh...pic=10382&st=15 (http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?showtopic=10382&st=15)

[Faithless]

Asian Studies as categorized by The Australian National University.

http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVL-AsianStudies.html

According to the link, Asian countries do extend from the Middle East to the Pacific Ocean. That being the case, then some Asian countries did have African slaves --

Just not the likes of the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc.

[Faithless]

The Middle East was big on slavery from East Africa. Persia was caught up in it.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/56h/56h024.html
Arabs had been taking African slaves since the time of Christ but not on a large scale for the nineteenth century. While as many as one-third of the slaves sent through Mozambique went to the French plantations, the remainder were now being sent to Turkey, Iraq, Arabia, and Persia. Most sold for $100 (ten times the buying price), but attractive young girls, sold as concubines to harems, regularly fetched as much as $500.

What's the difference between an Asian and an Arab?

[amietron]

<!--QuoteBegin-YuheiCarreau+May 29 2003, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YuheiCarreau @ May 29 2003, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think I can remember reading that for a time, Chinese aristocrats considered midgets or Africans hot commodities as servants (for the novelty of it, I guess). [/b][/quote]
Pygmies.

[azizgilani]

<!--QuoteBegin-ChottoMatte+Aug 10 2003, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChottoMatte @ Aug 10 2003, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What's the difference between an Asian and an Arab? [/b][/quote]
An Arab is a native speaker of Arabic. Roughly these are people who live in a band from Morroco to Iraq.

An Asian is someone from Asia.

If you are from Iraq, you are Arab and West Asian. If you are from Pakistan you are South Asian. If you are from Morocco you are Arab and North African.

A good way of thinking of Asia is starting with the Central Asian Republics. South of them is South Asia, West of them is West Asia etc.

[janqb]

Did anyone mention the trafficking of women and children? That amounts to a modern form of slavery. Girls and women in rural villages all over Asia, from Thailand to Nepal are sold as indentured servants or become sex workers. Men and boys from rural areas are also victimized in this process. Attention has focused primarily on women and girls who are trafficked into the sex trade. They make up a large portion of sex workers in Bangkok, New Delhi, and other cities were prostitution is legal or condoned. ECPAT is an watchdog organization that monitors the trafficking of children into the sex industry. Girls as young as 6 or 7 are trafficked fueled by the belief by many men that sex with a virgin will not give one AIDS. The industry is complicated, ranging from females working completely as slaves to women who choose their own clients and voluntarily remain in the industry. But yes, slavery does exist in Asia and it happens to the poorest of people. The industry is so large that it's been estimated in the billions of dollars and has exceeded the drug trafficking in profitability. Tis a shame.

[Faithless]

<!--QuoteBegin-azizgilani+Aug 10 2003, 04:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (azizgilani @ Aug 10 2003, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An Arab is a native speaker of Arabic. Roughly these are people who live in a band from Morroco to Iraq.

An Asian is someone from Asia.

If you are from Iraq, you are Arab and West Asian. If you are from Pakistan you are South Asian. If you are from Morocco you are Arab and North African.

A good way of thinking of Asia is starting with the Central Asian Republics. South of them is South Asia, West of them is West Asia etc. [/b][/quote]
So, whose fault is it that we are so conditioned to thinking that Asians are those people with epicanthic folds?

And why don't West Asians jump up and down, screaming, "we're Asian too!"?

[azizgilani]

<!--QuoteBegin-ChottoMatte+Aug 11 2003, 07:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ChottoMatte @ Aug 11 2003, 07:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And why don't West Asians jump up and down, screaming, "we're Asian too!"? [/b][/quote]
I am a one hit wonder

http://forums.yellowworld.org/index.php?showtopic=6690

:(

[Chinese Tourist]

aziz, Asia is an arbitrary term. Forget it

unless you are obssessed perhaps with the Greeks, from whose language the term comes I suppose

[azizgilani]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chinese Tourist+Aug 11 2003, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chinese Tourist @ Aug 11 2003, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aziz, Asia is an arbitrary term. Forget it [/b][/quote]
Except it includes me in it. I have to care about who uses it, because they speak, or at least claim to speak, for me. I get very jealous about that sort of thing.

[BigLew]

<!--QuoteBegin-azizgilani+Aug 12 2003, 09:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (azizgilani @ Aug 12 2003, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Except it includes me in it. I have to care about who uses it, because they speak, or at least claim to speak, for me. I get very jealous about that sort of thing. [/b][/quote]
Has anyone here said it doesn't include you? If they did I disagree with them. It is your choice to be identified as you want. In retrospect I know a few Pilipinos that would rather be called "Pacific Islanders" rather than Asian.