Are Asians really racist?

[Hiroshi2]

Are Asians really racist? I know I have come across a few instances among asians that might be considered racist, but I let it slide because every time it was with fob's who have rarely seen a non-asian person in their life, so I figured I'd just let it slide. But it seems like lately a lot of people around me are complaining about how racist asians (ABA's, not foreign-born asians) are, particularly towards hispanics and blacks. It seems like a lot of times whenever someone says white people are racist, someone steps in and says, "white people are racist, but not like asians. They're the real racists." So I'm asking, do you think asians are more racist than other racist? Do you think YOU are racist?

[pinkskyes]

phew...good question.

i've found many asians to be blatantly racist...they vary in age from grandmothers who don't want u to hand around with 'those white boys', to overseas students who bluntly tell u they 'would never go out with someone darker'.

and having grown up in a very multicultural (okay we lack blacks and hispanics here in oz land, but on another note we don't have the segregation that occurs in america), initially it was very shocking to hear. esp when asians are so often the recipients of racisn, you'd think they'd know better!!!

there's always a struggle for power in society and 'othering' those who we perceive as different is a way to secure our position in that heirachy (ie. we're better/more civilised than them because we're lighter, excel in maths blah blah)...

and east asians...we'll we come from a background of confucian thinking which LOVES heirarchies...so yeah, as asians observe who holds the power (globally), and they're white...so often (and i don't mean everyone!!) they will try and associate themselves with those who are regarded to be at the top of the power/privilege pyramid...thus when you talk to south asians, they often feel more comfortable with blacks than east asians because of the skin colour division.

but no, i don't think asians are more racist. racism is a projection. a projection based on fear. everyone can feel fear. and seeing as race doesn't really exist (in biological terms- but that's a whole other issue, worth its own thread), i don't think anyone can say which 'race' is the most racists.

[sOKaLiBoY]

i found that my gramdmother and mother are really racist when it comes to strangers. they have no problem with my friends which most are a different race. speaking of myself....i'm not that bad most of the time.

[SunWuKong]

yes

[Napoleon Chynamite]

What is the difference between this forum question (Are Asians really racist?) and the 'Are Koreans the n*ggers of Asia' or 'Are _______ bad or evil?' or 'Are _______ stupid people/retarded/short/have bad breath/stank ass feet?' threads? Not to advocate sugar coating, but perhaps if you did not present the question in such a sweeping statement type of way, or maybe if you worded it differently, like 'Do you find in your experiences that many Asian Americans seem to have a tendency to embrace more prejudicial ideas and racist thought due to the combined results of perhaps both traditional upbringing and social mechanics?'

And btw yeah I have noticed this tendency in terms of Asians living in or traveling from Asia but in terms of Asian Americans (the ones that were born here and did not have to obtain citizenship later in life) I have found a variety of different attitudes and perspectives (including racist ones, no doubt) ranging from self-hate to foolish pride to everything in between.

Regarding Asian Asians, it is simply a portion of their consciousness manifested in the form of subtle outward reactions or actions hinting at engrained racist ideology, but the difference is that it is simply how they were educated or brought up so they do not see it as wrong (although that may be changing slowly), whereas in American society it is much more taboo to be close-minded to ideas of diversity or race relations. Although I am not quite sure, I have a feeling that the comparison or distinguishing of a bigot vs. a nonbigot is either nonexistent or not very familiar to the members within Asian societies (depending on the area). In Asia, education with the idea of promoting diversity or once again, race relations, is still a relatively new concept (perhaps partially due to ethnic homogeny) I feel even though on the other hand many of us have grown up with the 'racism is bad' message pounded into out heads.

[Fireblade]

It doesn't matter what ethnicity you are... racisim comes in all shapes and sizes.

[ChairmanMah]

my grandfather used to tell me "white boy no good"

needless to say, he's been the fucked around quite a few times in Canada 60-80 years ago.

[Elizabeth A.]

Asians are capable of being racist just as anyone else is capable of being racist.

[himura-dono]

no more than anyother group

[Faithless]

Can Asians be racist - yes. Are we overall - no.

At least we better not say we are. It would be rather hypocritic to demand that certain groups and leaders stop their racist actions, when in fact we are. If we were truly racist.

[Tao]

Hey, at least most Asia Asians that are racist admit that they are. Americans however, be it white, black, yellow, or brown americans all have a difficult time in admitting that they harbor racist ideas and tendencies.

That's why when you think about it, the american vocabulary has got to be one of the most PC, bland languages in the world. People are way too scared in admitting that they have a darker side to themselves (that is except people on YW).

[AngryABCGirl]

Yeah defintely, we all have racism inside of us.

A lot of fobbier Asians are racist due to ignorance and Confucianism, ie why many of them look down on Blacks and Hispanics but won't mind associating with white people.

As for me, I'm ABA and I've grown up in the San Gabriel Valley, and the only group I've grown be racist towards its White people because hammerings of "si wai guo ren" and also because most racist incidents against Asians in my area have been because of WASPs not wanting more people moving into neighborhoods and changing curriculum to be more immigrant friendly in schools. There's that message of "if you're not like us, you're bad." But a lot of people have been turning it around and saying white people have no filiality and are ill-mannered and permiscious. Don't kill the messanger, this is just what I hear around.

I'm honesty more comfortable around other minorities than I'd be with a group of whites. When I was off for school in New England last summer I ended up hanging out with a group of Black kids, Jews, Asians, and Hispanics from very different socio-economic backgrounds that would have never associated with each other in any other place just because we were more comfortable with each other being different.

But for me, race won't anywhere in the determining factor of who I think a person is, but I'll be more suspicious of white Americans first.

I think there's too much of a notion of cultural superiority that's imprinted in a lot of people's heads that breeds intolerance that goes for everyone that America is especially guilty of.

[achtungbaby]

I don't mean to steer it off topic, but how are you defining racism?

[Faithless]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@May 28 2003, 03:12 PM
I don't mean to steer it off topic, but how are you defining racism?
Right. There's bigotry, prejudice, etc., and then there's the different forms of racism.

[BeTheReds]

Originally posted by ChottoMatte@May 29 2003, 09:28 AM
Right. There's bigotry, prejudice, etc., and then there's the different forms of racism.
racism

n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race [syn: racialism]


And here is the American definition:

racism

n 1: the prejudice that members of the White race are intrinsically superior to members of the Black race 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of the Black race by members of the White race [syn: racialism]

[myself808]

I agree that the question is too broad. The obvious answer is yes, no single race can be said to be free of racist views. To slice and dice on the relative level, and flavor of various types, and degrees of racism, well, seems to me that this topic is covered often enough (So then one more won't hurt right? :P )

[shy]

i think us asians notice it more in our culture because 1) it's our culture so we more aware of what's going on... the good and the bad; and 2) because other asians of our ethnicity group feel more comfortable in opening up about their racist thoughts with us feeling that "we're on the same side."

i'm willing to bet that if you go to any one else and ask them the same question about their culture, they will give you examples/experiences about bad apples that they know of.

racism is a natural thing in society... it's a learned behaviour therefore all of us have it within us to be racist. those that aren't are ones that chose to ignore generalizations that they have experienced.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by shy@May 28 2003, 04:44 PM
racism is a natural thing in society... it's a learned behaviour therefore all of us have it within us to be racist.
If it's a learned behavior, then it can't be 'natural'. But I get ur point :D

I don't believe that racism (as defined by most sources) is a natural or innate feature that human beings have. However, I do believe that human beings naturally fear the unfamiliar or are naturally suspicious, cautious, or skeptical of the mysterious or unknown. Additionally, we have a tendency to categorize and pigeonhole items, elements, ideas, as well as other people because it is often easier for our minds that way. Human beings are also social animals, which means there is a tendency and need to form and interact within group settings, in which the clique or the 'us' and 'them' mentality may become instilled.

[Tao]

people need to have a sense of purpose. along with that a sense of what is right and wrong. nothing's easier than fulfilling that need with generalizations and assumptions

[angel nympho]

IF you really want my honest opinion.... and I really don't care of people don't agree with me here... but I think Asian people are more racist than any other ethnicity I've ever come into contact with. But then again, I'm not as close with other minority groups. I'm definately more aware of it in Asians, cuz it's usually about something that affects me on a personal level. I think Persians are pretty racist, too, but I've had pretty limited experience with them, so I wouldnt be shocked if I was totally wrong.


Actually, yeah, well, everybody's racist... but I think Asian people are just more willing to openly express it.

[shy]

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@May 28 2003, 04:50 PM
If it's a learned behavior, then it can't be 'natural'.  But I get ur point :D


it's a learned behaviour when talking about us humans on an individual basis.

but i suppose i wasn't talking about a nature v.s. nurture thing when it comes to societies... but even then, i think i would argue that it's a natural occurence in society. ;)

I don't believe that racism (as defined by most sources) is a natural or innate feature that human beings have.

i agree. in we tie in racism with 'hate', we could even break it down to say that 'hate' is a learned secondary emotion. as for what is natural, what we are born with that is, we are only born with the four primary emotions... fear, anger, happiness and sadness. the four that we require for survival.

However, I do believe that human beings naturally fear the unfamiliar or are naturally suspicious, cautious, or skeptical of the mysterious or unknown. Additionally, we have a tendency to categorize and pigeonhole items, elements, ideas, as well as other people because it is often easier for our minds that way.

well said... no doubt we do seem to fear the unknown. and we associate negative and positive feelings with scenerios... depending how they go. and tend to relate to past experiences the next time a similar scenerio comes up.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 28 2003, 05:21 PM
IF you really want my honest opinion.... and I really don't care of people don't agree with me here...
No point in exchanging ideas and perspectives if everyone worries about whether or not other people agree with them ^^

[shy]

Originally posted by FrozenPizza@May 28 2003, 05:35 PM
No point in exchanging ideas and perspectives if everyone worries about whether or not other people agree with them ^^
personally, i don't care if people disagree with me or not. but they had better have some pretty good back-up. either logical/rational or with factual support.

otherwise i can debate until the sun comes up! it's not always a good thing... :cry:

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by shy@May 28 2003, 05:39 PM
personally, i don't care if people disagree with me or not. but they had better have some pretty good back-up. either logical/rational or with factual support.

otherwise i can debate until the sun comes up! it's not always a good thing...  :cry:
Well I think debate for the most part surrounding various issues of concern can be very productive. But I think the main reason why many people fear disagreement from others is because they equate disagreement with hostility. Anybody worth his or her salt will neither come across as hostile while disagreeing in a healthy argument, nor will he or she use words of disagreement as a tool to express hostility or contempt.

Or maybe, they are just afraid of looking stupid. As most people here can attest....I am not afraid of looking stupid. :HH:

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@May 28 2003, 06:12 PM
I don't mean to steer it off topic, but how are you defining racism?
OK, I admit my question was a bit broad, because I really shouldn't have clumped together a lot of different things as racism. So for future reference, here are my definitions (and for the record, in my original post, I probably should've replaced the word racism with bigotry or perhaps prejudice) Racism is institutionalized, but has roots with bigotry and prejudice, which is the belief that one ethnic group, racial group, etc. is superior.


IF you really want my honest opinion.... and I really don't care of people don't agree with me here... but I think Asian people are more racist than any other ethnicity I've ever come into contact with.

It's because I've been hearing people, asian and non-asian, saying things like this lately that I started this thread in the first place. Seems like quite a few people believe asians are the most bigoted people on Earth. So I'm wondering, first of all, is there any truth to that (it probably can't ever be proven, though), and why?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@May 29 2003, 02:56 AM

It's because I've been hearing people, asian and non-asian, saying things like this lately that I started this thread in the first place. Seems like quite a few people believe asians are the most bigoted people on Earth. So I'm wondering, first of all, is there any truth to that (it probably can't ever be proven, though), and why?
Saying things like what? I really DONT care if people agree with me or not. I add the little disclaimer so that people don't get all butthurt and think that I'm telling them what to believe.

[Everglaze]

I personally think that everyone is somewhat a bit racist behind closed doors. Sometimes making jokes about certain races and things like that, it's just not exposed so that's what prevents them from getting flamed and looked upon as actual racists. Now I'm not directing this towards just anyone though, if you yourself know that you're not racist in any way or form then avoid my opinion lol.

Anyway, my dad seems to dislike other races besides his own (Koreans). Although I tell him from time to time that people no matter what race they come from will be similar in characters. There's always going to be a loser and a winner in all races and that you can't just judge by stereotyping. For example, there was an incident when some black dude stole a parking spot that my dad was just going to move into and he started to state that that's why blacks are looked upon as bad people and get dissed by white people or something like that. I had to of course explain to him that not every black person is like that.

I'm not sure if you can just say that asians are the most racist because I've come to know a LOT of white people being racist more than I've gotten to know racist asians themselves. The only asians I know that have been somewhat racist were the homeland ones but even then, I didn't find many racist -- just a certain amount.

I think every race has their amount of racists and what about the KKK?

[Tao]

yay, we're all going to hell

[TyTea36]

Americans however, be it white, black, yellow, or brown americans all have a difficult time in admitting that they harbor racist ideas and tendencies.


ooo, we're yellow? are asians considered yellow? thats awesome... lol

o well, there are all kinds of people out there, racists just seem to be one of those kinds. You can't really tell if a person is racist right off the back. and i agree that:

It doesn't matter what ethnicity you are... racisim comes in all shapes and sizes.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

Asians born overseas tend to exhibit behaviors an American would label as racist just cuz of their ignorance of American standards and because their bad English. Like in high school, my HK friends were always making cracks about "white trash," "dumb blacks," "thieving mexicans," etc. But then they made friends with classmates of all different races without worrying how it would affect their image.

In contrast, most of the US-born students were quite careful never to outwardly display any such racist behaviors, and always supported issues and events for "people of color." But then they went off, cliqued together by race at lunch and took up half the dining hall to maintain their image as "Asian mafia," and held dances where you could only get in if you were the right eye shape and skin color.

[tvbdude]

I know I'm a racist. But like most people, I don't call out slurs.

[moschikat]

oh yes. but aren't we all?

I agree w/ alibaba . . . .

only after moving to Bangkok, and learning Thai I realized that they had a derogatory term for all of the other races, and they would use it in casual conversations too :blink: !!!

:P

[Faithless]

Originally posted by BeTheReds@May 28 2003, 04:36 PM
racism

n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race [syn: racialism]


And here is the American definition:

racism

n 1: the prejudice that members of the White race are intrinsically superior to members of the Black race 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of the Black race by members of the White race [syn: racialism]
I was thinking in terms of the four or so types of racism:

http://socialpolicy.ca/52100/m17/m17-t2.stm (http://socialpolicy.ca/52100/m17/m17-t2.stm)

Historical racism

Scientific racism

Institutional racism

New Racism

[achtungbaby]

I'm surprised there aren't any critical race theorists adherents in here (I usually find them on every other Asian forum out there)...I guess it deals more with the "Institutional Racism" definition.

[Faithless]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@May 28 2003, 11:13 PM
I'm surprised there aren't any critical race theorists adherents in here (I usually find them on every other Asian forum out there)...I guess it deals more with the "Institutional Racism" definition.
In my understanding of the definition of CRT, you'd have to look at Asians in multiple societies.

In the US, Asian Americans wouldn't necessarily be instrumental in racism, as much as, the larger racial group. If anything they would be perpetrators. However, in Asian countries, Asian governments and societies would have had to go out of their way to create a racist society that benefits them.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 28 2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Hiroshi2@May 29 2003, 02:56 AM

It's because I've been hearing people, asian and non-asian, saying things like this lately that I started this thread in the first place. Seems like quite a few people believe asians are the most bigoted people on Earth. So I'm wondering, first of all, is there any truth to that (it probably can't ever be proven, though), and why?
Saying things like what? I really DONT care if people agree with me or not. I add the little disclaimer so that people don't get all butthurt and think that I'm telling them what to believe.
I was talking about the part where you said, "i think asians are more racist than any other ethnicity I've ever come into contact with." What I was saying was that statements like that from other people is what got me thinking about this topic in the first place.

[YuheiCarreau]

Hiroshi, who exactly are you hearing this from? Have you been getting this comment from non-Asians across the board, or just other Blacks? When I talk about racism with Whites, they're usually quite convinced of their own racism and unaware of racism committed by others (the liberal ones, at least), so I assume you are talking to non-Whites about this stuff. I think a majorly overlooked subject in American race relations is how non-Whites relate to one another - Asians to Blacks, Hispanics to Arabs, whatever.

Also, are we talking about FOB immigrants or 2nd or 3rd generation AAs? Most of my experience has been with FOB Japanese, and as I said in another post, Asians from Asia are pretty much like Whites in America; not any worse, really, just not any less racist by virtue of having yellow skin (which is what a lot of non-Whites in the US seem to believe).

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by YuheiCarreau@May 29 2003, 10:22 AM
Hiroshi, who exactly are you hearing this from? Have you been getting this comment from non-Asians across the board, or just other Blacks? When I talk about racism with Whites, they're usually quite convinced of their own racism and unaware of racism committed by others (the liberal ones, at least), so I assume you are talking to non-Whites about this stuff. I think a majorly overlooked subject in American race relations is how non-Whites relate to one another - Asians to Blacks, Hispanics to Arabs, whatever.

Also, are we talking about FOB immigrants or 2nd or 3rd generation AAs? Most of my experience has been with FOB Japanese, and as I said in another post, Asians from Asia are pretty much like Whites in America; not any worse, really, just not any less racist by virtue of having yellow skin (which is what a lot of non-Whites in the US seem to believe).
Well for example I know a black guy i know lives out in southern california who says that asians out there are more racist towards blacks than whites are to blacks. He cites this as being the way they treat him compared to whites, etc. In other cases, like I said before, I've heard it from white people who say that asians are more racist against blacks and hispanics, but the way it was said it was almost as if they were saying, "Hey if white people aren't racist. At least not as much as asians." And in my own personal experience, but like I said in all those cases those were FOB's. Now in the case of my black friend in los angeles, he was actually talking about FOB's as well, because he did point out that asians raised in the U.S. tend to have different views, etc.

[maxdacat]

white people get called gwai lo's all the time in HK but i couldn't care less.....i actually find it quite funny

anyway it's easy to make fun of white people esp ones who live in trailers in states with straight boundaries

[angel nympho]

I know I'm definately racist. But at least I have self-control and I know when to ignore it.

[shy]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 29 2003, 10:06 AM
I know I'm definately racist. But at least I have self-control and I know when to ignore it.
just to clarify....

do you really think you are racist? or do you feel that you have beliefs in some generalization/steretypes that might make you somewhat judgemental before getting to know some one?

i see a different. they are very similar and i think they share similar traits, but with racism, i see more hatred. and those who are truly racist will show it in their actions. those that think the latter will have these feelings, but will remind themselves that they have to get to know a person before they can conclude that what they think is true or not.

for example... if i was in charge of hiring some one... if i was truely, completely racist, i might not hire them just based on their ethnic background. but if i wasn't racist, but stereotype-like thoughts flood into my mind as i interview them, i still have some control to know that though i might be proven right about these stereotypes, this person still might have the ability to do this job.

i think that everyone naturally has it in them to make generalizations and stereotyping habits... but racism usually involves hatred. and disassociation purely on another person's race.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by ChottoMatte@May 29 2003, 01:02 AM
In my understanding of the definition of CRT, you'd have to look at Asians in multiple societies.
I was under the impression that CRT was a distinctly American approach...?

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 29 2003, 11:06 AM
But at least I have self-control and I know when to ignore it.
Some might argue that you're not in a position (along with other minorities) to impose your racist inclinations in such a way that would detrimentally hurt another group anyway.

[achtungbaby]

Originally posted by shy@May 29 2003, 03:38 PM
i think that everyone naturally has it in them to make generalizations and stereotyping habits... but racism usually involves hatred. and disassociation purely on another person's race.
Do you think that all forms or acts of racism are created equal? For example, when an Asian shop owner exhibits some type of racist attitude towards a customer, versus a white police officer who uses racial profiling...

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@May 29 2003, 05:50 PM
Some might argue that you're not in a position (along with other minorities) to impose your racist inclinations in such a way that would detrimentally hurt another group anyway.
Well if she was in a position of power (say, for example, the supervisor of a company) then she would be able to hurt someone else (e.g. not hire someone on account of race)

[pinkskyes]

do u guys really consider yourselves racist??

i mean that's a pretty big call....i'd like to think i'm not. racism is totally learnt, it's not rational. everyone holds some kind of stereotype in their minds, but i think if u go out there and really just mix with people and get to know them, all stereotypes will be broken ( i love it when people break my stereotypes!)... people are just people....of course, if u grown up within a culture u'll identify more with people of the same culture, but every culture is pretty amazing i think.

i mean i'd hate to be stereotyped as an ASIAN full stop. because there's a hell of a lot of asians out there that i'm nothing like. and this is a bit of a tangent, buti think that's maybe why some poeple get plastic surgery to change racially defining features. they want to be seen as individuals, because they're stereotyped features make it easy for people to label them and a member of a group. it's a theory that's come up in studies of plastic surgery patients.....

phew. end tangent

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@May 29 2003, 03:06 PM
Well if she was in a position of power (say, for example, the supervisor of a company) then she would be able to hurt someone else (e.g. not hire someone on account of race)
Yeah but hurting somebody (i.e. a member of a certain group) is different from having the power to exert influence that may harm groups as a whole. Refusing to hire somebody based on their skin color of ethnicity or race hurts just that one person, but obviously if you do this over time to the same group of people, your effect may become a bit more widespread. However, even as just a supervisor of a company, it is different, say, than holding a position in much higher places situated within the upper levels of the power structure, which is why political say and voice is so important. It is from this angle where laws and sweeping rules and regulations can be enacted or put into place to control and cause either great damage/harm or assistance to the masses or various entire groups and entities within society. The argument behind and supporting institutional racism vs. simply racist thoughts or ideology is that the vast majority of minorities in the United States do not have the ability to press the metaphorical buttons which activate or shift gigantic societal mechanisms into gear.

[pinkskyes]

frozen, are u saying that's it's less of an injustice when people who hold less societal influence are racist?

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 29 2003, 05:29 PM
frozen, are u saying that's it's less of an injustice when people who hold less societal influence are racist?
I placed no marker or mention regarding which is more of an injustice, racist ideology harbored by whites (the socially constructed dominant group in the United States) or by individual members of subordinate/minority groups. I merely supported the existence of institutional racism and how because of this, racist ideology harbored by whites in the United States will have much more potential impact than racist ideology held by minorities.

[shy]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@May 29 2003, 02:53 PM
Do you think that all forms or acts of racism are created equal? For example, when an Asian shop owner exhibits some type of racist attitude towards a customer, versus a white police officer who uses racial profiling...
that's a tough question. and i'll admitt that i don't have, yet, a clear answer...

it's so tough with racial profiling. after 9/11, there was some racial profiling... instead of taking in all those that are questionably in the states (no visa though some were in the process of getting their visa), they targeted those who came from the middle east.

was this fair? well... some have argued that the government was in a position where they had to eiminate any terrorists that might still be in the states. and targeting those with questionable US status that came from the country that was attacking the states was the most efficient way.

however, it did make those that were innocent (which most of them were) feel incredibly alienated and discriminated. i mean, there were many that were still in the process of getting their visa.

i guess the reasons can be seen as somewhat different. but at the end of the day, some one has been felt that they were judged solely on their race. and have been made to feel alienated.

once again, that's a damn good question.

[airborneranger]

this type of academic question is really interesting to read

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@May 29 2003, 02:53 PM
Do you think that all forms or acts of racism are created equal? For example, when an Asian shop owner exhibits some type of racist attitude towards a customer, versus a white police officer who uses racial profiling...
I really don't see the point of placing or rating acts of injustice in comparison to others. In most societies, murder is seen as more of an injustice than practically any other deed including armed robbery, rape, treason, or assault. But it is only due to the result of the act, which is infinitely more permanent and the most detrimental to the victims who suffer from acts of criminals. I realize that every society needs a system like this, to place a marker or label or rating in order to keep order. But I don't see how a woman who is physically or verbally abused every day of her life finally snaps and kills her husband commits a greater injustice than someone who is just assaults and beats up a bystander with a crude weapon. I feel there are too many variables, whether they be psychological or specific to the situation at hand, in order to simply say that everyone who commits murder strays farther from justice than those who commit robbery, who in turn stray farther from justice than those who jaywalk, etc.

Likewise, I don't see how you can compare (or even if you should try) the injustices of a Chinese man or black man committing a hate crime with that of a white man doing the exact same thing. From my perspective, all three of these men have serious issues with insecurity, misinformation, ignorance, or anger, but in the end and when you look at the US from the big picture, due to power structure and social mechanics a white man's bigotry will always be the greater threat. This, however, does not connotate that a white man's bigotry is a greater injustice. I feel that you should not merge the way things work politically or socially with comparing amounts of injustice. They are two very separate things, and thus should be attacked and dealt with separately.

If I am a bit unclear, it's because perhaps I haven't had the time to actually directly express what I want to say. Actually, I'd still hafta really think about it if I were to refine this post.

[shy]

Originally posted by Hiroshi2@May 29 2003, 03:06 PM
Well if she was in a position of power (say, for example, the supervisor of a company) then she would be able to hurt someone else (e.g. not hire someone on account of race)
going by that type of logic, the point then of the errors of racism, is completely lost.

it's not about whether a person is racist but since he/she is not in a position of power to alienate some one base on their skin colour, then he/she is harmless. i think it's healthier to view things in terms of prevention.

because it's not so much important about what type of power the racist person may have NOW... in the present that is. the fear is that this person could very much have some type of power if not now, but in the future.

and since one needn't be a superisor/manager to afflict racism, i think there are many opportunities a person can dispay racism that is harmfull. even in a small, insignificant way... as that, indirectly could encourage similar type behaviour if such a behaviour was witnessed by some one else who felt inclined to think said behaviour is justified for whatever reason.

[pinkskyes]

"Do you think that all forms or acts of racism are created equal? For example, when an Asian shop owner exhibits some type of racist attitude towards a customer, versus a white police officer who uses racial profiling... ""

what do you mean by CREATED equal? all racism is equally as bad, it perpetuates injustice. full stop. but people who are in positions to serve the community hold extra responsibility and should be held accountable to their decisions, which should idealistically be non prejudice.

however, the impact of the effect doesn't change the wrongness of the intent.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 29 2003, 05:54 PM
"Do you think that all forms or acts of racism are created equal? For example, when an Asian shop owner exhibits some type of racist attitude towards a customer, versus a white police officer who uses racial profiling... ""

what do you mean by CREATED equal?  all racism is equally as bad, it perpetuates injustice. full stop. but people who are in positions to serve the community hold extra responsibility and should be held accountable to their decisions, which should idealistically be non prejudice.

however, the impact of the effect doesn't change the wrongness of the intent.
agreed, kinda like what i said

i need to learn to be less verbose and also to stop being a circular communicator ^^

[shy]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 29 2003, 05:54 PM
"Do you think that all forms or acts of racism are created equal? For example, when an Asian shop owner exhibits some type of racist attitude towards a customer, versus a white police officer who uses racial profiling... ""

what do you mean by CREATED equal? all racism is equally as bad, it perpetuates injustice. full stop. but people who are in positions to serve the community hold extra responsibility and should be held accountable to their decisions, which should idealistically be non prejudice.

however, the impact of the effect doesn't change the wrongness of the intent.
i think that when we enter something like "racial profiling", as seen after 9/11, the intent may not be in the form or racism. but the result COULD end up being in a form or racism. it depends on who is given the power of racial profiling.

from the police/fbi's position.. i honestly don't think they see racial profiling as racist. but as a procedure to effeciently catch the suspects.

so if people witness that a... i don't know.... purple dude was robbing the bank, then the police would aim at searching and questioning all purple dudes as an efficient way to capture the supsect.

is it fair to those that are innocent, but happen to be purple? no. it's not. like i said... it feels pretty shitty for them.

but i understand what achtung is getting at. the initial intent is not comletely the same. one is a procedure, where as other straight-out, racist acts are created by hate.

[pinkskyes]

but how often do u hear news reports headlining CAUCASIAN MAN WANTED FOR FATAL SHOOTING?

it just doesn't happen, but the race of minorities is often made note of in crimes, but (i'm speculating here) how often is the race noted when a minority kid wins some local competition?

[shy]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 29 2003, 06:08 PM
but how often do u hear news reports headlining CAUCASIAN MAN WANTED FOR FATAL SHOOTING?

it just doesn't happen, but the race of minorities is often made note of in crimes, but (i'm speculating here) how often is the race noted when a minority kid wins some local competition?
trust me... i totally see your point. but i think achtung's question shouldn't be dismissed so easily. as i said... the INTENT of racial profiling isn't ALWAYS aimed at allowing those in power to be racist.

which is different from that of lets say, the KKK, who's actions are all based on hatred towards any race other then their own. (i use KKK, btw, becaues they were just there... from the top of my head).

you said that the intent is always the same. i'm merely saying that with racial profiling, the intent is NOT the same. but i'm not arguing that power will abuse a system/concept and give it a bad name.

it's like communism.

when karl marx came up with what he felt would be a utopian society, he did not see it as a way to allow the government to oppress the people. he was hoping to create balance and equality. THAT was the INTENT.

that's all that i truely meant. and i think that's what i interpretated achtung's question. :)

[pinkskyes]

i meant i intent of racism is the same regardless of what position that person is in.

i don't think that racial profiling is neccessarily racist. it does serve a purpose. i was merely pointing out that often, it is applied and emphasised with minorities, which has a significant effect on the image that group holds in society. if racial profiling is used, it should be used universally to be fair. it think it is especially important to emphasise that the government is looking for terrorists and people of a certain ethnicity DON'T represent terrorists.

the policies and profiling of terrorists is necessary, it allows the agencys to narrow down on individuals via their visa details or whatever. but if police officers hold racial perceptions of who is more likely to be a criminal (like images of blacks being in gangs), that could be considered racist.

[shy]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 29 2003, 05:54 PM
"Do you think that all forms or acts of racism are created equal? For example, when an Asian shop owner exhibits some type of racist attitude towards a customer, versus a white police officer who uses racial profiling... ""

what do you mean by CREATED equal? all racism is equally as bad, it perpetuates injustice.
sorry, i suppose i misinterpretated your question in answer to achtung's question.

your question sort of had an aggressive punch to it... and i thought you might have interpretated achtung's question differently. that's all. no harm was meant. :)

[pinkskyes]

oooh...aggressive hehe..nah i didn't mean to come across that way :) ánd i agree with ur points....must be this headache, i've got the flu.

[shy]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 29 2003, 07:52 PM
oooh...aggressive hehe..nah i didn't mean to come across that way :) ánd i agree with ur points....must be this headache, i've got the flu.
i agree w/ your points too. hope you feel better soon!

[Faithless]

Originally posted by achtungbaby@May 29 2003, 02:46 PM
I was under the impression that CRT was a distinctly American approach...?
That's my understanding as well. But if you want to apply CRT to Asians, I think you'd have to try to relate Asian racism to White American racism.

[pinkskyes]

whats CRT?

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 30 2003, 02:08 AM
but how often do u hear news reports headlining CAUCASIAN MAN WANTED FOR FATAL SHOOTING?

it just doesn't happen, but the race of minorities is often made note of in crimes, but (i'm speculating here) how often is the race noted when a minority kid wins some local competition?
I would think it's necessary to denote the race of somebody when they've committed a crime. It's part of their description and helps you identify them. I usually only notice that they mention race if the person is currently on the loose and police are asking for the public's help in capturing them. When the criminal has already been captured and everything, I don't really notice them saying anything about their race unless it's to say that they've recently immigrated from someplace or something like that... or if they were illegal immigrants, they usually say from where... but other that that, i dont hear much of it.

But that's just what I've personally noticed. Maybe somebody has noticed a different trend.

[pinkskyes]

i think it's a useful tool aswell, but it's not applied universally, and often media reports are highly biased and like to emphasise the ethnicity of minorities in crimes....

[angel nympho]

Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 30 2003, 06:04 AM
i think it's a useful tool aswell, but it's not applied universally, and often media reports are highly biased and like to emphasise the ethnicity of minorities in crimes....
But they're actively LOOKING for somebody, they usually mention if he's white, too.

Usually, the only mention of a race I hear is if it's used as a description of the person, they don't just throw it in there out of nowhere. Well I guess they do sometimes, but that's really the fault of the guy behind the teleprompter.

[Hiroshi2]

Originally posted by angel nympho@May 30 2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by pinkskyes@May 30 2003, 02:08 AM
but how often do u hear news reports headlining CAUCASIAN MAN WANTED FOR FATAL SHOOTING?

it just doesn't happen, but the race of minorities is often made note of in crimes, but (i'm speculating here) how often is the race noted when a minority kid wins some local competition?
I would think it's necessary to denote the race of somebody when they've committed a crime. It's part of their description and helps you identify them. I usually only notice that they mention race if the person is currently on the loose and police are asking for the public's help in capturing them. When the criminal has already been captured and everything, I don't really notice them saying anything about their race unless it's to say that they've recently immigrated from someplace or something like that... or if they were illegal immigrants, they usually say from where... but other that that, i dont hear much of it.

But that's just what I've personally noticed. Maybe somebody has noticed a different trend.
I agree it makes sense to describe one's race for identification purposes. And to be fair, pinksyes, I have heard plenty of times on the news, "suspect is a white male, 5'10", 160 lbs, etc."

[Beautiful_Mix]

Right. There's bigotry, prejudice, etc., and then there's the different forms of racism.

I live in NYC, and some of the Asians are racist. When it is towards blacks and hispanics, I think its due to what they've heard and seen. I've seen how blacks and hispanics treat asians, especiallyt the ones that own and run those small take-out restaurants. And its really bad and hipocritical because blacks like to rant and rave about racism against them, and seem to think that just because they went through slavery and Jim Crow it's perfectly alright for them to act however they want and even if their actions are racist. So asian racism could be due to fear.

I also notice that asians (in NYC) tend to fear or dislike people just because they're not asian. Some asians even go as far as to exclude other asians, especially the darker skinned ones like Fillipinos.

I think its just ignorance and they just need to be educated. Because I've seen asians that were prejudice become more open and nicer when they were exposed to whites, blacks, and hispanics that were good people.

[yangbahn50]

An answer to your question...Can Asians be racist?

Of course Asians can be racist.

It's not only Asians who are racist though. Black, hispanics and whites are also blatantly racist just as much as you think Asians are.

If I'm racist, I tend to dislike blacks or whites. Whites, because they are plain rude and ignorant. For example, I hang out with a white guy and a Japanese guy. After a week of meeting them on my college campus, I came to be friends with them. However, one day while sitting in a cafeteria on campus, my Japanese friend happened to talk about Japanese manga (comics). Then my white "acquaintance" happened to say..."Oh those Jap comic strips" OMG! My jaws dropped and wanted to smack the sh*t out of him.

Then there are black people. Not all of them are pricks towards Asians...but a good handful of them are. I was born in a predominantly white area (Everett Wash.) where people are nice, and neighbors say hi to one another. Then during middle school, I moved to Hawaii where 64% of the population are Asian, and people are also nice there.

After highschool, I left Hawaii to attend college in Philadelphia...and now Los Angeles. These two cities have a huge black population. Anyhow....I tend to get cold shoulders from blacks (esp. in LA).

However,...Nigerian blacks tend to be cool people to hang out with. In fact I have 3 Nigerian friends (two in Philly, one attending college in LA, but from the Bay Area). They tend to be well behaved, tend to be educated and are very charismatic.

Black-Americans (or AfricanAmericans...whatever is PC) tend to be very pushy and condescending towards Asians. They can also be very self-centered. Even take a look at the LA riot in 1992. Blacks claim that Korean liquor store owners were always yelling at them...blah blah.
That part is sort of true.

However, I can understand why Korean store owners would follow black shoppers (esp. the gangster ones) when they enter the store. You wann know why? Because they tend to STEAL products (such as beer and soda). Not all of them do...but a good handful of them do. Then they use skin color as an excuse to accuse Koreans for being mean when they are caught stealing.

[deez nuts]

. So asian racism could be due to fear.


for me personally, it's not out of fear, i just hate a lot of people.

[robotic]

i feel that a persons race cannot define the amount of prejudice, cultural intolerance etc. they possess. the majority of asians, however, are influenced by the fact that they do not usually feel accepted. this brings about insecurities, not being comfortable around different races and ethnic groups etc.

[Emperor_Mike]

SHORT ANSWER: Everyone is capable of being racist so yes, Asians can be racist.

LONG ANSWER: I really can't be asked to elaborate right now. Lecture to prepare for. :tongue:

[sageb1]

Or as Gumby rephrased the original question by Hiroshi2:
Do you find in your experiences that many Asian Americans seem to have a tendency to embrace more prejudicial ideas and racist thought due to the combined results of perhaps both traditional upbringing and social mechanics?
Yes, my parents were raised on Meiji tradition in the 1930s.

My dad hated turnips as a result.

In Vancouver I can recall one time when he bristled when a non-Japanese young man wandered near.

Between my mother and him, I can see my father as having the blinders of tradition and social mechanics. He seemed to be deliberately uncultured, "just a farmboy". Yet he was pretty good with numbers in school.

My mother, on the other hand, might agree with his prejudices, but despite her blunt asssessment of non-Asians, is still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they, likewise impaired by upbringing and social mechanics, convince her otherwise.

Usually my fears don't agree with the reality that most people,both non-Asian and Asian, aren't out to harm me, but actually try to be harmless to almost everyone.

It's frightening to base our social interactions on fear, since it inhibits openminded discussions on more important things such as facing challenges both together and alone without any impediment such as fear.

That is why I resort to spiritual inspiration from Buddhist, Taoist, and even Hindu sources to transcend fear.

Alone, we're fearless; in a crowd, sometimes the fear of others seems overwhelming. No need to waver: fearlessness takes a calm, rational mind.

What it takes is continuing discipline, ridding one of useless bits of tradition and social mechanics.:biggrin:

[Mr.Lum]

I know of a few racist Asians. welll, more than a few. I dont think there are many in my family, but I think there is like 2 by marriage on my dads side who are. but of the Chinese related to me they are not. they could care less of colour. the Algerians in my family as far as I know are not racist either, but they are Africans.

[sageb1]

we are only born with the four primary emotions... fear, anger, happiness and sadness. the four that we require for survival.

Inquiry into compassion, and how to develop and maintain it, helps to more effectively use the four primary emotions so that their evil twins don't arise i.e. panic from fear, rage from anger, mania from happiness, and depression from sadness.

As far as empowerment goes, Hawkin's book Power vs. Fear gives a rough idea of where they fit into our lives.

[nola]

Alot are due to Confucian influence.

[yoMAMA]

I know quite a few chinese that are racist towards blacks and latinos......

They are mostly FOBS, though.

[yangbahn50]

Are Asians really racist? I know I have come across a few instances among asians that might be considered racist, but I let it slide because every time it was with fob's who have rarely seen a non-asian person in their life, so I figured I'd just let it slide. But it seems like lately a lot of people around me are complaining about how racist asians (ABA's, not foreign-born asians) are, particularly towards hispanics and blacks. It seems like a lot of times whenever someone says white people are racist, someone steps in and says, "white people are racist, but not like asians. They're the real racists." So I'm asking, do you think asians are more racist than other racist? Do you think YOU are racist?

yeah, I've also heard that Japanese nationals are also racist to foreigners.

If you are a Chinese or Korean student, even if you were born in Japan,...won't get scholarships.

Japanese are also racist towards middle eastern, black and white foreigners as well. I have heard of a story of a Pakistani computer programmer living in Nagoya who injured his hands on the job. Rather than keeping him, the japanese company simply wrongfully terminated him.

Oh, and another thing,...Japanese courts are also racist. I've read this case where a Korean man was suing a golf club because he was denied membership..simply because he was Korean.
The judge (clowns..that's what I call Japanese judges) ruled that the golf club owner had the right to discriminate because it's a private golf club. WTF!

[jjlee3dson]

Alot are due to Confucian influence.

I'm sorry you're going to have to explain this one!
I've actually read a bit of Confucius and I don't see it. The essence of Confucian thought is humanism which is contrary to racist ideology.

That said, I don't think Asians are any more racist than any other society/culture/political system/group seeking (false) gods to justify one system or another. I prefer to think of racism as a political adaptation in response to a percieved socio-politcal need. Ultimately, to eliminate racism one has to understand the demons and destroy the demons that feed it. Throughout the working class and student communities in which I have worked, once the community's members realized the commonality of the struggle the racist stuff we'd been infected with began to fall away.

[asvenus]

are we talking about racism or ethnocentrism here? the latter certainly is embraced by most communities and Asian people are no different...in fact i think Asian people are the most complicated group out there when it comes to having prejudices against other groups because we dont just have the typical...black people are this white people are that....we usually distinguish between every single group, phenotypical characteristic, sub culture and do on...even within the Asian community let alone outside it...i know so many (older) Asians who literally slag off EVERYONE except 'their own' which means their particular group so lordy lord....i wouldnt call it 'racism' though

[nola]

and east asians...we'll we come from a background of confucian thinking which LOVES heirarchies...so yeah, as asians observe who holds the power (globally), and they're white...so often (and i don't mean everyone!!) they will try and associate themselves with those who are regarded to be at the top of the power/privilege pyramid...thus when you talk to south asians, they often feel more comfortable with blacks than east asians because of the skin colour division.a couple others also mentionned confucianism which emphasizes order and hierarchies. it encourages people to associate with those at the top of the hierarchy over those lower in the hierarchy.

[SunWuKong]

I'm sorry you're going to have to explain this one!
I've actually read a bit of Confucius and I don't see it. The essence of Confucian thought is humanism which is contrary to racist ideology.


i don't know if Confucianism really encourages racism, but there's definitely potential for that. Confucianism emphasizes knowing your place in society and not challenging your station in life.

[jjlee3dson]

i don't know if Confucianism really encourages racism, but there's definitely potential for that. Confucianism emphasizes knowing your place in society and not challenging your station in life.

I concede that aspects of Confucianism do appear to mandate the preservation of the status quo but the whole concept of the "mandate of heaven" is derived from Confucius. And that theory holds that a ruler that fails in his duties to the people by immoral or inhuman conduct and policies may (must) be removed as he/she has lost the moral supremacy that is the basis of his rule. That by any definition is pretty revolutionary.

What happened to Confucius is the same thing that happened to Christianity and Islam; a political theory/religon becomes the means by which an ascendant group seeks to legitimate and perpetuate. In other words the theory bcomes the servant certain men/women rather than the guide for conduct their conduct. Confucius' thoughts were co-opted into what became a "state religon" which served to establish and perpetuate a particular status quo. Keep in mind that racist "mythologies" all serve to legitimate a vision that serves the dominant or struggling subscribers of that racist myth.

But I think we're getting off into a separate thread here... Suffice to say that racism as any "-ism" has a capacity for humanity's dark side and we must be on guard against that aspect.

[nola]

The Analects were hella depressing to read. All that order.

[artsfartsyjanet]

Are Asians really racist? I know I have come across a few instances among asians that might be considered racist, but I let it slide because every time it was with fob's who have rarely seen a non-asian person in their life, so I figured I'd just let it slide. But it seems like lately a lot of people around me are complaining about how racist asians (ABA's, not foreign-born asians) are, particularly towards hispanics and blacks. It seems like a lot of times whenever someone says white people are racist, someone steps in and says, "white people are racist, but not like asians. They're the real racists." So I'm asking, do you think asians are more racist than other racist? Do you think YOU are racist?

Referring back to the original statement in the beginning of this thread, I personally do not like to label if someone is racist or not, but rather question to what degree are Asians individually racist. I believe everyone has racial tendencies, including myself (whether it be intentional or not). I know people regardless of race who have said something negative about another person of a different race, and yet, still do not believe they are racist. I don't think Asians are more racist than any other race. The structure of racism between races are more parallel than identical. I agree that we can't make a comparison between which race is more oppressed by another race's bigotry because that kind of comparison enforces a dichotomy of thinking about racism on a national and global scale.

[SunWuKong]

I concede that aspects of Confucianism do appear to mandate the preservation of the status quo but the whole concept of the "mandate of heaven" is derived from Confucius. And that theory holds that a ruler that fails in his duties to the people by immoral or inhuman conduct and policies may (must) be removed as he/she has lost the moral supremacy that is the basis of his rule. That by any definition is pretty revolutionary.

yes, according to Confucianism, those who are superior must abide by his/her duties to the inferior. however, the philosophy in its purest form already supports a system in which one is born into either superiority or inferiority. and the fact that it has a clear seperation of superiority and inferiority is bad enough. moreover, while a servant may someday become a master himself, Confucianism is not always so "genetically blind", as a woman can only always be in a subservient position to her husband. if her husband does not do his duties, she may disobey him or maybe even find another husband, but she still must be subservient to her husband. i don't see how this cannot be carried over to a racial order.

[AliBabaIncorporated]

The judge (clowns..that's what I call Japanese judges) ruled that the golf club owner had the right to discriminate because it's a private golf club. WTF!
Japan doesn't have US-style laws against racial discrimination. So it's not a judge's job to impose them where they don't exist. I guess you were expecting him to engage in the kind of judicial activism which you'd condemn if you saw it coming from the US Supreme Court?

[krome]

no more than anyother group
Yea, if anything, there is a white-superiority complex amongst us. More racist against ourselves than anyone else.

As far as Hispanics and Blacks pointing the finger - talk about pot calling kettle black. :rolleyes: Many Blacks have been dissing Asians just like whites for decades now from Eddie Murphy's "small Asian d*ck" jokes to OJ's "Asian athletic inferiority" remarks to Shaq's "ching-chong" comments towards Yao. So, who's throwing the first punches here? Gimme a break, they got no room to speak.

We're all racist, so to single out Asians as the most is pretty ridiculous. Again, Asian-bashing knows no limits - that biased perception alone reveals an anti-Asian prejudice already in itself.

[rocketbunny]

Anybody from any ethnic background can be racist.

[Kris]

yeah black people are racists. whites are racists. blacks are criminals. hispanics are wet backs or boarder jumpers . we all deserve each other. *sarcasm*.

[Mr.Lum]

The world is all evil grimey people.

[truMp]

This thread is really long and i have not read any of it, but to answer the question.

It's the individual, not the ethnic group, who is identified as the racist.

It's as simple as that.

[sageb1]

I don't mean to steer it off topic, but how are you defining racism?
hatred, hostility, prejudice, etc towards a specific race.

the root causes: fear of loss of identity within one's own culture, displaced anger due to hostile experience with that particular race, and mainly ignorance about another person's culture.

the only appropriate way to fight back is to do so politely depending on the circumstances.


do you really think you are racist? or do you feel that you have beliefs in some generalization/steretypes that might make you somewhat judgemental before getting to know some one?

i wonder if my stereotypes are based on what i learned in childhood, and only pop up when i am tired / hungry.

when i watch the multicultural programs on TV, i feel a pang of sadness, of not being able to fit in in any ethnic community or group.

i'd like to think the only thing preventing me from total isolation from my japanese roots is anime, and uncovering the roots of my family tree.

[Filiprish]

Yea, if anything, there is a white-superiority complex amongst us. More racist against ourselves than anyone else.

As far as Hispanics and Blacks pointing the finger - talk about pot calling kettle black. :rolleyes: Many Blacks have been dissing Asians just like whites for decades now from Eddie Murphy's "small Asian d*ck" jokes to OJ's "Asian athletic inferiority" remarks to Shaq's "ching-chong" comments towards Yao. So, who's throwing the first punches here? Gimme a break, they got no room to speak.

We're all racist, so to single out Asians as the most is pretty ridiculous. Again, Asian-bashing knows no limits - that biased perception alone reveals an anti-Asian prejudice already in itself.
"White"-superiourity complex? Hmmm, I tend to think that Asians have an Asian-superiority complex. The only reason hwy we kiss "white" people's asses is b/c we have to.

Btw, Hispanics have nothing but love for Asians. Afterall, we are both of Mongoloid descent.

[Mr.Lum]

Btw, I've never ever heard a Hispanic make fun of Asians. Never. Hispanics has nothing but love for Asians. Afterall, we are both of Mongoloid descent

I have heard many latinos do that black white mixed etc. You shouldn't generalize that they have "love" for Asians or that both Asians and latinos have "mongoloid" decent. Some do, some don't.

[Filiprish]

I have heard many latinos do that black white mixed etc. You shouldn't generalize that they have "love" for Asians or that both Asians and latinos have "mongoloid" decent. Some do, some don't.
In general, Hispanics do have love for Asians. They are on our side. Hispanics except for the ones from Spain and those of African descent have Mongoloid descent, which is the overwhelming majority of Hispanics in the US and the world.

[Mr.Lum]

In general, Hispanics do have love for Asians. They are on our side. Hispanics except for the ones from Spain and those of African descent have Mongoloid descent, which is the overwhelming majority of Hispanics in the US and the world.

The ones you have met. That does not mean that most latinos "have love" for Asians.

[asvenus]

wow...'mongoloid'...theres a word you dont often see outside a Linaeus/de Gobinneau textbook....

arent 'latinos'/'hispanics' (people from Spain dont really class themselves as Hispanic), an amalgam of quite alot of ethnicities? African, Asian, Native American, European, practically everything...

[tkat]

This thread is really long and i have not read any of it, but to answer the question.

It's the individual, not the ethnic group, who is identified as the racist.

It's as simple as that.

You bring up a good point. But the scary part is group think, passed along within groups of individuals with similar backgrounds or from generation to generation. And that's when you bring in the concept of all [insert race] hating on [insert race different from previous].

[Flow to Live]

yes asians can be rascit but most of the time they are not openly. My parents hate mexicans and blacks and veiw them ALL as a bad influence to asians, even when i was younger they prohibited me to listen to rap music because i might become bad. But then again my parents are old fashion conservative first generation americans. Then i have some cousin part of "asians gangs" and i notice they are highly rascit against white people for some unexplainable reason.

Other then that asians in general think there better then other asians. I would talk to my parents about what china or koreans etc. does that is good and they would always point back to Vietnam saying that vietnamese can do better then them. and when we go watch a chinese movie like Hero and they would critize everyting about that movie and other related asian movies except vietnamese movie. but maybe its just me and my family im not saying everyone has family like this.

[tkat]

Actually, this is what brought me to YW today. Well, technically it was Google search, but you get what I mean.

I do believe that Asians can be quite racist, yet they are the most prone to hide their racism behind closed doors. And it's quite a painful struggle when you don't want this to be the truth, yet you can't do anything about it, like tell friends that they are acting racist and need to change, because it's such a deeply ingrained value in the culture that they don't see what they are doing as being racist. You can't rationalize the issue, you can't use find enough logic to be convincing. Like trying to kiss your elbow, I'd say.

The world doesn't operate rationally. Here, I just hope that I can be understanding of the racist as well as educate myself and the younger generations to be more tolerant of different races.

[grimfan]

Yes, Asians can be very racist. We must be as vigilant against our own extreme prejudices as we are against those of other people's.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

I find Asian people from Asia in general to be less aware, and thus perhaps less tolerant, towards the lifestyles or ways of other groups, as a result of Asian countries being on the whole usually more ethnically homogenous and their respective governments not having received significant amounts of pressure from minorities in society (there being not enough of them) to set into motion any type of processes of socialization in order to educate the public majority or promote awareness. I'm referring more to countries such as China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam more than perhaps countries in SE Asia such as Malaysia, countries whose governments have been forced over time to deal with the issues and concerns of a sizeable ethnic minority population.

Much like here in relation to Asian or foreign cultures, except to an even greater extent, many an Asian person's understanding of Western culture stems greatly from exposure to globalized mass media (movies, magazines, pop culture, etc.). Unfortunately, along with this already watered-down inaccurate portrayal of Western culture comes the West's mainstream ideas and perceptions of other foreign non-Asian (and Asian) cultures and groups not included with those that largely control Western media. However, this just what I've drawn from what I've seen, and basically when I'm comparing Asian people from Asia to us, "us" basically means people living in American society.

[AltimaGTR]

To me, it's more prejudice than racism that I see with Asians. HAHA, that or nobody is being too blatant about it.

[Tao]

To me, it's more prejudice than racism that I see with Asians. HAHA, that or nobody is being too blatant about it.
well most of the chinese in china are afraid of blacks, because they think they might rob them or whatever. can't say i blame them considering all the stories they hear from relatives who live in black neighborhoods and run shops there, but i mean it's still a stereotype.

[deez nuts]

no, not here in america.

yw has taught me that only the dominant power i.e the white people can be racist here in america.

i remind those around me to this fact everytime i crack a racist joke or launch into a tirade of racial slurs against someone's ethnicity that has pissed me off.

[TB4000]

well most of the chinese in china are afraid of blacks, because they think they might rob them or whatever. can't say i blame them considering all the stories they hear from relatives who live in black neighborhoods and run shops there, but i mean it's still a stereotype.
Watch out before I jack you for your paper. We all have those relatives that are extremely racist in our family though. I have the uncle that hates all white people, as I'm sure we all do, or the cousin that despises such and such and manages to bring it into the conversation whenever she sees someone of that race. I have my own older generation of great uncles and aunts that talk about "those orientals in our neighborhood" all the time.

[nola]

no, not here in america.

yw has taught me that only the dominant power i.e the white people can be racist here in america.

i remind those around me to this fact everytime i crack a racist joke or launch into a tirade of racial slurs against someone's ethnicity that has pissed me off.you know that's a good point. people of color can only be racist against another race if they're structurally dominant over another race so asians can only be racist against blacks if we're their bosses or otherwise economically, politically or socially dominant over blacks. blacks may be socially dominant over asians because they watch the most movies so have much more representation in media and they may have more political representation than asians. i suppose all these points of which people of color can be racist against another race in which ever realm are debatable.

[hbar00]

you know that's a good point. people of color can only be racist against another race if they're structurally dominant over another race so asians can only be racist against blacks if we're their bosses or otherwise economically, politically or socially dominant over blacks. blacks may be socially dominant over asians because they watch the most movies so have much more representation in media and they may have more political representation than asians. i suppose all these points of which people of color can be racist against another race in which ever realm are debatable.

Please tell me that was a tongue-in-cheek assent to the tongue-in-cheek massively ignorant inflammatory statement.

[returntosender]

Asians in western nations generally aren't racist. And if they are, I don't consider it to be particularly hateful. None of my family has ever shown any racist tendancies, nor have I ever heard anything violently negative coming out of any of them. On the whole, I think they're just trying to get along with everyone.

Asians in Asia? I don't know. But you can't compare them to their westernized counterparts because I truly believe that to be unfair.

[nola]

well technically racism is prejudice plus power so in order for someone to be racist they have to have power over another race. so can blacks be racist towards asians if they are structurally dominant socially or politically and can be asians be racist to blacks if they are structurally economically dominant over blacks? or should we say that poc cannot be racist towards one another as we're equally oppressed by white hegemony and say that poc can be prejudiced towards another but not technically racist? or because asians are structurally economically dominant over blacks and have lighter skin (a marker of class and economics) can we be racist towards blacks? so should we use the word prejudiced instead of racist?

[deez nuts]

Please tell me that was a tongue-in-cheek assent to the tongue-in-cheek massively ignorant inflammatory statement.

lol. i would say i told you. but, i won't.

my cheekiness might offend.

[cuberds]

It really depends on the individual, not the race. If one feels threatened or insecure (about our jobs), for example, one will more likely feel racist towards that cultural background. In most cases, it is the byproduct of ignorance and environment.

[Andrea]

Sorry to say, but in this day and age, I think Asian people are more racist. I donno, nowadays, white people actually want to be Asian, so the rascim has really toned down. However, thats definitely not to say that some white people can't be racist. Then again, I'm just basing this on my observations...

The really racist Asians you have to watch out for (if you're not East Asian, anyways) are those cliquy Asians, the ones who are always in a group, and go a little overboard with that whole "Asian Pride" thing.

[draconisz]

Sorry to say, but in this day and age, I think Asian people are more racist. I donno, nowadays, white people actually want to be Asian, so the rascim has really toned down. However, thats definitely not to say that some white people can't be racist. Then again, I'm just basing this on my observations...

The really racist Asians you have to watch out for (if you're not East Asian, anyways) are those cliquy Asians, the ones who are always in a group, and go a little overboard with that whole "Asian Pride" thing.

Forgive the old guy for asking. But how can Asian pride be racist? Do Asians have pride because they think the Asian race is better than other "races"?

[nameless]

Sorry to say, but in this day and age, I think Asian people are more racist. I donno, nowadays, white people actually want to be Asian, so the rascim has really toned down. However, thats definitely not to say that some white people can't be racist. Then again, I'm just basing this on my observations...

LOL White people don't want to really be Asian. They just want to take part in the food and pop culture, like with the other ethnic cultures. Just 'cause people are getting kanji tatoos and decorating their homes with Asian themes does not mean they want to actually be Asian.

Forgive the old guy for asking. But how can Asian pride be racist? Do Asians have pride because they think the Asian race is better than other "races"?

She's talking about middle school / high school Asian groups that try to act tough and represent "Asian Pride" like it was "Black Power." Nothing wrong with having pride, of course, but we're talking kids with identity issues. They don't know what it means to be Asian so they establish their group identity by being openly racist and exclusive. It's these kids that make non-Asians think that all groups of Asians are racist and cliquish.

[draconisz]

LOL White people don't want to really be Asian. They just want to take part in the food and pop culture, like with the other ethnic cultures. Just 'cause people are getting kanji tatoos and decorating their homes with Asian themes does not mean they want to actually be Asian.



She's talking about middle school / high school Asian groups that try to act tough and represent "Asian Pride" like it was "Black Power." Nothing wrong with having pride, of course, but we're talking kids with identity issues. They don't know what it means to be Asian so they establish their group identity by being openly racist and exclusive. It's these kids that make non-Asians think that all groups of Asians are racist and cliquish.

But I still don't understand the whole "racist" angle. Racism is the why behind the act. It is not the act itself.

"White" people who support segregation did not do so in response to some rejection or some supremacist mindset by another group. They did so because of the supremacist mindset of their own group. When Asians react to this and try to have "Asian pride". It is only in response, not because there was some deep seeded need to express their supremacist views.

I am not saying that such doesn't occur within specific groups of people of color. Surely, that does occur. But it definitely doesn't happen on a "racial" level.

[nameless]

But I still don't understand the whole "racist" angle. Racism is the why behind the act. It is not the act itself.

"White" people who support segregation did not do so in response to some rejection or some supremacist mindset by another group. They did so because of the supremacist mindset of their own group. When Asians react to this and try to have "Asian pride". It is only in response, not because there was some deep seeded need to express their supremacist views.

I am not saying that such doesn't occur within specific groups of people of color. Surely, that does occur. But it definitely doesn't happen on a "racial" level.

Totall agree with you, dude (just see my post in the other huge thread). But in this case, we're talking about some kids who use the front of 'Asian pride' to excuse their racist behavior and suprmemist thinking. Not always the case, but I've seen it a couple times at my school.

[kasia]

i haven't read the thread. but in response to the question posed by the topic title, no, we're just fakin it.

[BeTheReds]

I don't buy the race plus power = racism argument. Racism is simply the belief that one race is better than another, and every race has racists. People who buy into the race + power = racism argument only do so to justify their own racism against whites. And if anyone wants to argue that racism against whites is okay, then they shouldn't be complaining about being one the recieving end of racism.

[returntosender]

Watch out before I jack you for your paper. We all have those relatives that are extremely racist in our family though. I have the uncle that hates all white people, as I'm sure we all do, or the cousin that despises such and such and manages to bring it into the conversation whenever she sees someone of that race. I have my own older generation of great uncles and aunts that talk about "those orientals in our neighborhood" all the time.

Actually, I don't have a single relative that is a racist. My family doesn't have a lot of black friends, but what do you expect? They're true immigrants, and a few refugees(like me), so most of their contacts are Vietnamese/Chinese. There's no xenophobia or prejudice in that. My aunt and mom are a little afraid of blacks, but they've never said a negative thing about Asians or non Asians. I'm proud to say that race has never even been the topic of conversation in our household. And when a family member is talking about another race, they always use the correct Vietnamese terms such as 'American Blacks' or 'American Whites'. Never a derogatory name.

My uncle for example, is pretty damn open minded. He's never said a negative thing about another race, and if he's going to judge you, he's going to judge you based on your character. If he's talking about another race, it's usually something very positive. Like a couple of months ago, we were watching NFL footage and he commented on how black athletes seem to develop good physiques. And on Thursday we were watching Ultimate Fight Night and he was mentioning about some of his favorite fighters are guys like David Loiseau and Anderson Silva, who are both black.

But that's just my family. That's the kind of environment I grew up in. I didn't develop prejudice until, well, pretty late in life. And I admit, I do have certain thoughts about certain races. I wouldn't call myself a 'racist' as I don't actually believe that my race is superior to others.

My opinion is that 'racism' develops in different ways in different people. You can have prejudice as a very young child, or you can develop them later in life. You can even have prejudice towards your OWN race, as we have seen many times already, so this notion that 'racism' is just the belief that one race is better than the other is kind of untrue.

Racism exists in the mind, the heart, but also in an institution. It's not just an 'idea' to be talked about, but I think it's a very real tangible thing. To talk about racism you have to take history and the present in it's totality. You have to talk about it on a macro and micro level, how it's an preemptive action as well as a it's also a reaction.

EDIT: This post isn't just a response to TB400 but pretty much everyone involved in this topic.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

^ Your family must be exceptional. As far as I'm concerned, racist ideology is an unfortunate byproduct of the vast majority of traditional cultures out there, mainly because there was so little exposure, much less education, about other groups or cultures outside one's own. Racism borne from ignorance abounds among the upper generations of my family, and perhaps even in some of the lower (or mine) ones but I haven't had much of a chance to really connect or talk to a lot of my cousins period, much less have conversations about sensitive topics such as race.

Your definition of racism is probably very different from mine. For me the definition is simple and the thought process doesn't need to take root into any type of institution. Like BeTheReds said, it's merely the idea that one race or people is superior to another or all others for any reason or reasons.

[zero]

Regarding the 'Are Koreans the n*ggers of Asia'

The original inhabitants of Korea today are from Eurasia steppe whose linage can be traced to current Aryans. So they are Mongolian-Aryans. Many are good looking therefore. Nigger term comes from fuckin white sex perverts who can't seem to get consent to boink Korean women.

[returntosender]

^ Your family must be exceptional. As far as I'm concerned, racist ideology is an unfortunate byproduct of the vast majority of traditional cultures out there, mainly because there was so little exposure, much less education, about other groups or cultures outside one's own. Racism borne from ignorance abounds among the upper generations of my family, and perhaps even in some of the lower (or mine) ones but I haven't had much of a chance to really connect or talk to a lot of my cousins period, much less have conversations about sensitive topics such as race.

Your definition of racism is probably very different from mine. For me the definition is simple and the thought process doesn't need to take root into any type of institution. Like BeTheReds said, it's merely the idea that one race or people is superior to another or all others for any reason or reasons.

What's my definition of racism? Reading back I don't think I put out a definition, but merely how it's sometimes applied in society.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Regarding the 'Are Koreans the n*ggers of Asia'

The original inhabitants of Korea today are from Eurasia steppe whose linage can be traced to current Aryans. So they are Mongolian-Aryans. Many are good looking therefore. Nigger term comes from fuckin white sex perverts who can't seem to get consent to boink Korean women.

Umm..........no. Do you even know what the word Aryan means from a scientific viewpoint beyond the typical association of the term with whiteness or European features (which still wouldn't make sense since you don't see many European looking East Asians, Korean or otherwise)? But this is kinda off topic anyway isn't it? Came straight out of left field from an idiotic thread made like 10 years ago, countering a stupid and misinformed question with an equally misinformed answer.

[hkRT]

Most of the racist people I have met are white or asians who think they are white. But then nonracist people can also be found in any race.

[draconisz]

I don't buy the race plus power = racism argument. Racism is simply the belief that one race is better than another, and every race has racists. People who buy into the race + power = racism argument only do so to justify their own racism against whites. And if anyone wants to argue that racism against whites is okay, then they shouldn't be complaining about being one the recieving end of racism.

But no one can offer an "example" of this. Can they? What major group of either Asians, "Blacks", or American Indians (you do agree these are "races), think themselves racially superior to everyone else?

You cannot get away from the concept of race, who it unites, who it divides, and who readily identifies with it, not when you are talking about racism.

I am pretty sure that you know more Asians than I do. How many of them even remotely identify with race?

[draconisz]

^ Your family must be exceptional. As far as I'm concerned, racist ideology is an unfortunate byproduct of the vast majority of traditional cultures out there, mainly because there was so little exposure, much less education, about other groups or cultures outside one's own. Racism borne from ignorance abounds among the upper generations of my family, and perhaps even in some of the lower (or mine) ones but I haven't had much of a chance to really connect or talk to a lot of my cousins period, much less have conversations about sensitive topics such as race.

Your definition of racism is probably very different from mine. For me the definition is simple and the thought process doesn't need to take root into any type of institution. Like BeTheReds said, it's merely the idea that one race or people is superior to another or all others for any reason or reasons.

If many Asian people are "traditional" how does that make them racist? If they are traditional, doesn't that mean that ethnic and cultural divisions mean more to them?

Racists don't care about cultural or ethnic divisions. Race is the only thing that drives their belief system. Race for them explains behavior. It doesn't matter to them how much or how little cultural similarity exists.

Why confuse a concern for culture with a concern for race?

[BeTheReds]

But no one can offer an "example" of this. Can they? an example of what?

What major group of either Asians, "Blacks", or American Indians (you do agree these are "races), think themselves racially superior to everyone else?
Well what major group of whites thinks of themselves this way? The KKK doesn't count, as it isn't a major group, and any other group you can possibly name that is major would be a gross generalization. There isn't any way possible to say that ANY major group of any race is racist, however we can say that there are racists in all races.


You cannot get away from the concept of race, who it unites, who it divides, and who readily identifies with it, not when you are talking about racism.
I don't even know why you're saying this to me at all. I don't think I have said anything to the contrary.

I am pretty sure that you know more Asians than I do. How many of them even remotely identify with race?
well, pretty much all of them i'd have to say, at least acknowledge that they are Asian. What do you exactly mean by identify with race?

[draconisz]

an example of what?

Of the "racist" beliefs/behaviors of other groupings.


Well what major group of whites thinks of themselves this way? The KKK doesn't count, as it isn't a major group, and any other group you can possibly name that is major would be a gross generalization. There isn't any way possible to say that ANY major group of any race is racist, however we can say that there are racists in all races.

Let me try to make this a little plainer. I probably screwed up with my previous posts.

You can talk with "Whites" that you know. Or even query some that you do not. But if you asked "Whites", do they think that their form of government, culture, philosophy, etc. is superior to all others, most (I would think) would say "yes".

An example would be an average "White" American. Most "Whites" think that America is great because of the principles and ideals set forth by the Founding Fathers.

There aren't many people of color who would agree, as each group have had to fight for their own equality here in their own separate battles, long after the Founding Fathers were dead and buried. The reason why this country is great for everyone is because of the sacrifices of the people who made this country what is it.

Are you beginning to see what I mean?

I don't even know why you're saying this to me at all. I don't think I have said anything to the contrary.

well, pretty much all of them i'd have to say, at least acknowledge that they are Asian. What do you exactly mean by identify with race?

Well, talk with "Whites". Ask them about why they are "White". Most will say. . ."because of my skin color". Then you can engage them about what they consider to be differences between different groups of people. Invariably, they will start to talk about "cultural differences" between themselves and different groups of non-"Whites".

You can pull the switch and ask. . ."but I thought you were just "White" because of your skin color". Most won't even sense a contradiction, because their race identity is cultural in nature. They can't see it. They are blind to it. It's like a second skin, they just don't notice.

But you will notice it. It should be quite obvious to you.

[sageb1]

I seem to recall this one black guy who was pissed off at the drug users where he lived.

The dude was majorly pissed off to the point where i thought he was either psychotic himself or just plain nuts.

About a year later when I made the mistake of taking to task his partner going off for food at a rock concert we were guarding, he goes through the whole psychosis bit -- as if nobody told him we're all supposed to bring lunches because it will be a long day.

He was really anti-poor and couldn't fathom that not all people on welfare really can't just smarten up and go off it like that.

He objected to my solution of throwing more money at the poor. I said that because most of the welfare payments from the governments go towards corporate welfare in Canada.

Yep, here in Canada, unpaid loans to businesses are examples of corporate welfare. It is a bigger drain on the government tax money than any one social welfare recipient! People should really closely examine the welfare issue before dissing so-called "welfare bums"; it ain't all money to the poor.

There are cronies of our Conservative gov't who now have learned how to run a business employing a few welfare recipients.

Overall, he didn't seem racist. He was just another Toronto guy suffering cultural shock in Lotusland.

Man, I love BC!

[Napoleon Chynamite]

If many Asian people are "traditional" how does that make them racist? If they are traditional, doesn't that mean that ethnic and cultural divisions mean more to them?

Racists don't care about cultural or ethnic divisions. Race is the only thing that drives their belief system. Race for them explains behavior. It doesn't matter to them how much or how little cultural similarity exists.

Why confuse a concern for culture with a concern for race?

Uh...are you kidding me? You seriously think that people who adhere to traditional values can justify harboring close-minded generalizations and stereotypes about other groups and acting upon said generalizations and thoughts via discrimination, rude treatment, etc? Most of these people don't care enough to learn more or know better or really believe that their culture or people are the center of the world and the best because that's what they've been taught their entire lives. You're basically giving people a way out for staying ignorant. I can't count the number of times some of my relatives have thrown around derogatory slurs to refer to either whites or blacks, and you're going to say that it's okay because they're just holding on to their culture and traditional ways of thinking which don't know any better? Race may not be the driving base of their entire ideology or framework like say the KKK, but that does not justify shit.

Being racist, at least to me, means believing that one race or races (or perhaps cultures) are superior to others. Traditional Asian culture(s) is full of this. I'm sure traditional cultures are full of this period as people in the past were not trained to be PC or sensitive to the understanding of other groups. It's one thing to understand why this is, it's quite another to say that this type of thinking is okay and that we're mistaking racism for "concern for culture."

I mean what the hell seriously, traditional people aren't traditional because they are "concerned with culture or embracing their own culture", they are traditional because that's just how they are and they're just functioning within a framework as how they were taught and brought up. In fact if someone is actually concerned about embracing some culture, the chances are that he/she is probably not very traditional in the first place. As the world becomes more globalized and interconnected, we can only hope that the portions of traditional culture based on either ignorance or discriminatory thinking either cease to exist or undergo reform. I get this feeling once again that you and others are trapped in this pattern of thinking where only whites are truly racist.

I mean really, do you guys think that discrimination and selective treatment based on skin color, physical appearance, or cultural/linguistic differences originated exclusively with Europeans or something just b/c of what has happened with imperialism in the past few centuries? Either that or you feel like jumping on the minority bandwagon with a bunch of Asian people and you like the idea that everyone is buddy-buddy against the white man.

[BeTheReds]

Of the "racist" beliefs/behaviors of other groupings.

Without making blanket generalizations, no. And your assesment of white people hitherto is a gross generalization.


Let me try to make this a little plainer. I probably screwed up with my previous posts.

You can talk with "Whites" that you know. Or even query some that you do not. But if you asked "Whites", do they think that their form of government, culture, philosophy, etc. is superior to all others, most (I would think) would say "yes".

Do you have statistics to back up your assertion besides what you personally think white people would say? The white people I know (for the most part) wouldn't say that they are superior, only that they feel most comfortable within the system they were raised. You must not know a lot of white people if you think that they are all bible belt hicks or imperialists.

An example would be an average "White" American. Most "Whites" think that America is great because of the principles and ideals set forth by the Founding Fathers.
I think it is great because of that too, and also in the manner which these principles have been adapted to the modern age.

There aren't many people of color who would agree, as each group have had to fight for their own equality here in their own separate battles, long after the Founding Fathers were dead and buried. The reason why this country is great for everyone is because of the sacrifices of the people who made this country what is it.

I disagree with you there. Lots of people of color would agree that the nation is great because everyone gets a (more or less) fair shake in America. And as for the sacrifices of the people who made this country, plenty of white people sacrificed for it. I'm not trying to say that there aren't any white racists, because there are plenty, but your charges are too extreme.

Are you beginning to see what I mean?

I see what you mean, but I think your assumptions about white people are blanket generalizations.

Well, talk with "Whites". Ask them about why they are "White". Most will say. . ."because of my skin color". Then you can engage them about what they consider to be differences between different groups of people. Invariably, they will start to talk about "cultural differences" between themselves and different groups of non-"Whites".

Uh, but their skin color IS why they are white. The same could be said about anyone else who is whatever race they are. Simply because there is a culture that goes with that doesn't mean that they aren't white because of skin color.

You can pull the switch and ask. . ."but I thought you were just "White" because of your skin color". Most won't even sense a contradiction,
There isn't a contradiction. The two questions are asking different things. One is about phenotypical difference, the other is about cultural. People of color who are very culturally assimilated are still people of color.

because their race identity is cultural in nature. They can't see it. They are blind to it. It's like a second skin, they just don't notice.

But you will notice it. It should be quite obvious to you.
Notice what? Everyone's race identity is cultural in nature! I still don't see what you are getting at, and I still don't know why you chose to reply to my previous message. I was talking about race+power = racism and how i don't think that's true because racists exist in all races, even in ones who don't have any power.

[draconisz]

Uh...are you kidding me? You seriously think that people who adhere to traditional values can justify harboring close-minded generalizations and stereotypes about other groups and acting upon said generalizations and thoughts via discrimination, rude treatment, etc? Most of these people don't care enough to learn more or know better or really believe that their culture or people are the center of the world and the best because that's what they've been taught their entire lives. You're basically giving people a way out for staying ignorant. I can't count the number of times some of my relatives have thrown around derogatory slurs to refer to either whites or blacks, and you're going to say that it's okay because they're just holding on to their culture and traditional ways of thinking which don't know any better? Race may not be the driving base of their entire ideology or framework like say the KKK, but that does not justify shit.

Who says I am "justifying" anything? I can't change anyone. Including stopping a person from stereotyping other people. We were talking about racism. We weren't talking about bigotry, ignorance, or prejudice.

I don't give people a "way" out. People create their own prisons, Napoleon. It isn't my way to stay close-minded. I have to leave my comfort zone and visit places where I may not even be welcomed. Because I am just that curious about the way other people live.

But Napoleon there is no way on this earth that I can convince everyone else of my way. I provide no justification. I just know there isn't anyway to change a person unless they want to change themselves.


Being racist, at least to me, means believing that one race or races (or perhaps cultures) are superior to others. Traditional Asian culture(s) is full of this. I'm sure traditional cultures are full of this period as people in the past were not trained to be PC or sensitive to the understanding of other groups. It's one thing to understand why this is, it's quite another to say that this type of thinking is okay and that we're mistaking racism for "concern for culture."

But you just said it right there. "Traditional Asian Cultures are full of this". How so? If a member of a Traditional Asian Culture think that "Whites" are better than everyone else, how is that racism? If members of one Traditional Asian Culture think that the members of another Traditional Asian Culture are backwards, how is that racism?

You have to be specific. And I will give you an example. When I pretend that women are inferior to men by virtue of their sex. I am called a sexist. I am not called a racist. If I wanted to lump every form of discrimination, prejudice, ignorant behavior, into one category I could, but that would not tell me anything about these unique situations.

The reason why we cannot subtract race from racism has to do with the classification system itself. We must understand who defined the "races" and for what purpose were they defined. To claim that your grandparents are racist in the same way that the Klu Klux Klan was in the early 1900s, isn't logical. To claim that older Asians who are concerned about outmarriage rates do so for the same reasons "Whites" practiced imperialism in Asia is not logical.

The situations are unique and separate. Surely they have some similarities, but they are not the same.